1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,600 Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit. 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:04,560 I am Andy Orian. 3 00:00:04,565 --> 00:00:06,420 Alongside me is my co-host, Pippa Sturtz. 4 00:00:06,990 --> 00:00:07,500 Hi Andy. 5 00:00:08,070 --> 00:00:11,010 And today we are joined by Farrah Nji. 6 00:00:11,310 --> 00:00:22,830 Farrah is a London born dj, a producer, a podcaster, a public speaker span, a wide range of interests for producing a playing music all over the world, to hosting TED Talks and having our own podcasts. 7 00:00:22,830 --> 00:00:24,055 So, How you doing? 8 00:00:24,055 --> 00:00:25,314 Great to have you on the podcast. 9 00:00:25,314 --> 00:00:30,265 So we always like to, um, start with an initial question, which is, uh, what's keeping you up at night? 10 00:00:30,595 --> 00:00:31,405 Making music. 11 00:00:32,034 --> 00:00:32,335 Oh, really? 12 00:00:32,335 --> 00:00:32,725 Yeah. 13 00:00:32,730 --> 00:00:32,765 Yeah. 14 00:00:32,769 --> 00:00:35,905 I'm most creative at night, so, you know, I just can't help myself. 15 00:00:36,085 --> 00:00:39,805 I've got my studio in my room, so I just, I just gravitate to it. 16 00:00:40,075 --> 00:00:41,695 And what's your primary business? 17 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:42,959 Primary business. 18 00:00:42,959 --> 00:00:45,690 Um, honestly, they're, they're equal split podcasting. 19 00:00:45,690 --> 00:00:57,239 I run a podcast agency, a motor sports events company, and then obviously the DJ thing, which, which is like running a business and a podcast agency in terms of, uh, in terms of basically producing content for brands. 20 00:00:57,239 --> 00:00:57,449 So, okay. 21 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,489 That, that was actually born out of the pandemic. 22 00:00:59,580 --> 00:01:04,069 So it's my sort of my latest one, but it's, it's doing quite well, so yeah. 23 00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:07,650 Yeah, A pandemic killed music and motor sport for, for a couple of years, you know. 24 00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:10,289 So, um, but motor sport has sport entirely stopped as well. 25 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:11,280 Didn't in the pandemic, yes. 26 00:01:11,565 --> 00:01:13,215 Yeah, unfortunately it just wasn't feasible for us. 27 00:01:13,215 --> 00:01:16,965 I hear they're doing, um, London's got going to do, um, formula One. 28 00:01:16,965 --> 00:01:17,595 Do you know this? 29 00:01:17,985 --> 00:01:21,915 They say that, but I think it will always stay at Silverstone as part of the British heritage. 30 00:01:21,915 --> 00:01:22,515 So they're gonna do both? 31 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,145 They'll do both. 32 00:01:23,385 --> 00:01:25,995 Well, I've met the people involved in it and it, it is public. 33 00:01:25,995 --> 00:01:27,765 I think you could look up PR articles. 34 00:01:27,765 --> 00:01:30,225 They've gr it's sta out by, um, east London. 35 00:01:30,225 --> 00:01:31,365 They've got all the rights to do it. 36 00:01:31,395 --> 00:01:33,255 I mean, it'll take a few years to put together. 37 00:01:33,435 --> 00:01:35,535 So what, tell us about this Motorsport business. 38 00:01:35,535 --> 00:01:36,105 What is this? 39 00:01:36,195 --> 00:01:38,835 So basically we explore leadership through motorsports. 40 00:01:38,835 --> 00:01:43,860 So, Um, we look at the fundamental like peak performance, what kinds of motor sport, any motor sport. 41 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:45,210 We explore all different avenues. 42 00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:51,660 So our events could be rallying, it could be four by four, it could be carting, it could be single Cs, but the whole ethos is motorbikes. 43 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:52,740 Yeah, motorbikes. 44 00:01:52,800 --> 00:02:00,179 Um, but really, can we, can we take, you know, section of peak performance or sustainability, managing risk, you know, trans digital transformation. 45 00:02:01,050 --> 00:02:09,030 So kind of looking at how the pinnacle of our, of our sport does it and, and really bringing that to a wider audience who, you know, maybe aren't gonna be racing cars every day. 46 00:02:09,030 --> 00:02:10,170 Give us an example. 47 00:02:10,260 --> 00:02:10,920 Give an example. 48 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:13,350 Um, so for example, blind driving with Land Rover. 49 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:15,420 That always gets, you know, people excited. 50 00:02:15,420 --> 00:02:17,670 It's that really Test blind people driving Landover? 51 00:02:17,675 --> 00:02:23,370 No, you, you are blindfolded and you are driving a car, a Land rover in a controlled space. 52 00:02:23,370 --> 00:02:25,410 Obviously it's got thousands of hectares of land. 53 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,230 And it's operated by Land Rover since you know it's been purpose built, but you'll be going through like deep water. 54 00:02:30,230 --> 00:02:32,220 You can't see your navi, your copilot. 55 00:02:32,655 --> 00:02:35,325 It's telling you like turn left by like five o'clock. 56 00:02:35,325 --> 00:02:35,566 What is this? 57 00:02:35,571 --> 00:02:38,864 This, this a sort of a, a leadership training for the individual driving. 58 00:02:38,894 --> 00:02:42,704 It's for the com our community, so our community comes the the, the what? 59 00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:44,595 The motor sport community, the community. 60 00:02:44,595 --> 00:02:47,415 That's basically members of this car, of this race and club. 61 00:02:47,420 --> 00:02:49,005 So there are people who love cars. 62 00:02:49,405 --> 00:02:51,144 Uh, they geek out on f1. 63 00:02:51,204 --> 00:02:52,915 Some of them might be racing themselves. 64 00:02:53,214 --> 00:02:54,475 They just love, they just love cars. 65 00:02:54,535 --> 00:02:56,725 What, what, what's the aim of blindfolding someone? 66 00:02:56,845 --> 00:03:03,924 So that's more to really test your, you know, your trust with your co-pilot, the confidence in the person that's with you saying turn fucking right now. 67 00:03:04,945 --> 00:03:07,524 So it's leadership in motorsport? 68 00:03:07,584 --> 00:03:09,185 No leadership through motorsports. 69 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:21,760 So you, you look at how does, for example, if we go to an F1 factory, We have a, a, a talk by Peak performance coach, or a workshop, and our community, a lot of them are entrepreneurs, founders, or they're, you know, c-suites executives and 70 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:33,790 they're, they're looking to kind of, you know, learn more and challenge themselves and, and get out of their sort of comfort zone and think differently and, and also be com connected to a community of people that, you know, like similar things. 71 00:03:34,090 --> 00:03:39,220 So they're having a good day, but they're also like sort of, you know, leadership training. 72 00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:39,790 Exactly. 73 00:03:39,790 --> 00:03:40,000 Yeah. 74 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,850 So there, there's always a takeaway because there's a lot of companies that do. 75 00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:51,750 You know, like kind of what you said, but for us, our demographic of individuals, they are su super into, you know, entrepreneurship and the racing club is how many people? 76 00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:54,090 Um, it's a small, it's like under 200 people. 77 00:03:54,330 --> 00:03:57,510 And is it quite a kind of mixed punch? 78 00:03:57,510 --> 00:03:59,520 I mean, how does it divide between men and women? 79 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,610 Yeah, it's actually got more women, um, than the average statistic. 80 00:04:02,610 --> 00:04:07,290 Just a, because I'm running it b because there's a huge interest, you know, in motor sport for females. 81 00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:12,285 But it hasn't maybe, maybe like, Me running it is like keeping a very safe environment. 82 00:04:12,290 --> 00:04:14,625 It's, I'm very particular about who comes into the club. 83 00:04:14,955 --> 00:04:21,855 We are very international, um, community because we have a partnership, um, an informal partnership with the business school I went to in, in Regions park. 84 00:04:22,875 --> 00:04:30,810 And um, the students there are like 90% from different countries, so, You know, you end up leaving with friends from all different parts of the world who, who like cars. 85 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:35,880 So you, you know, I've been to Kenya and I've been, you know, rallying in Kenya with my Kenyan friends who are out there. 86 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,670 Or you go to Norway and it's more like ice driving. 87 00:04:38,670 --> 00:04:39,990 Go to Japan, it's drifting. 88 00:04:39,990 --> 00:04:41,160 So it's really cool because I. 89 00:04:41,550 --> 00:04:46,050 You know, we all travel a lot and you can leave with, you know, some really cool friends in different parts. 90 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,400 So it's a lovely club. 91 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,780 But what's the leadership bit? 92 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:58,350 The leadership bit is like, okay, if I, if you could take, you know, how could a Formula One driver and a team think, like, how do they do things at Oh, so looking at motorsport as inspiration Exactly. 93 00:04:58,355 --> 00:04:59,010 To run your business. 94 00:04:59,479 --> 00:05:04,099 From or to, to, to, you know, and he's, he's motor sport a good inspiration. 95 00:05:04,099 --> 00:05:07,219 It sees a very one man, you know, one woman go false, don't break. 96 00:05:07,250 --> 00:05:07,489 Yeah. 97 00:05:07,489 --> 00:05:11,059 It's just like, there's usually one person, there's a team behind it going, fuck it. 98 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:12,440 Hell don't do that, Gary. 99 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:13,429 You know, whatever. 100 00:05:13,434 --> 00:05:17,270 It, it, it, it, it's, uh, is that, do you find that a good representative of business? 101 00:05:17,270 --> 00:05:17,770 Yeah, absolutely. 102 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:19,609 There's a, but there's definitely a public perception. 103 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,260 Um, but when you get under the scenes and you work in the industry, I mean, it's you, you don't work in Formula One. 104 00:05:24,260 --> 00:05:26,539 If you're average, you know, you are top of the top. 105 00:05:26,539 --> 00:05:32,030 Whether that's marketing, whether that's engineering, graphic design, Hospitality, like you are the best of the best. 106 00:05:32,359 --> 00:05:43,369 And so how do you motivate that workforce to stay, um, you know, to stay competitive, to be at their top of their game, to work across 22 different time zones, which, you know, a lot of business leaders face the same problem. 107 00:05:43,369 --> 00:05:46,309 Like, how do we attract and retain top level talent? 108 00:05:46,309 --> 00:05:46,849 How do we. 109 00:05:47,340 --> 00:05:49,740 You know, uh, not burn out while working on the road. 110 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:51,780 How do we operate under a global media scrutiny? 111 00:05:51,780 --> 00:05:53,100 What are some of the answers, do you think? 112 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:59,370 What are, what are the motor sport things that you've, you've seen, uh, uh, a good, uh, lessons for us in the rest of the world? 113 00:05:59,370 --> 00:06:05,970 I think there's a relentless pursuit of perfection and also uncovering like marginal gains and being like obsessive about that. 114 00:06:05,975 --> 00:06:12,190 So when you see a race, a lot of the times, Those drivers, even if they win a race, they go back to the debrief room and they're debriefing in there for hours. 115 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:15,609 They're not sitting there drinking champagne and celebrating till five in the morning. 116 00:06:15,609 --> 00:06:17,200 You know, I'm sure they'll celebrate, of course. 117 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,690 But the first thing that they do is they, they, they remember everything that they, you know, could have or maybe went wrong. 118 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:32,425 And I think it's like really kind of getting comfortable with like, you know, Uncovering, like that level of performance means getting uncomfortable and, you know, facing these things head on. 119 00:06:32,425 --> 00:06:39,355 It also means understanding how to manage risk so you don't take a corner like flat out at a hundred and whatever miles an hour. 120 00:06:39,385 --> 00:06:43,705 You, you have data, you have, you've also pushed yourself to find that, to find that limit. 121 00:06:43,705 --> 00:06:50,275 And sometimes, you know, there's a fear of failure, but in Formula One, You know, or motor sport fail failure means innovation. 122 00:06:50,275 --> 00:06:53,815 That means like, you know, if you, if you fail, then you know what you can do better. 123 00:06:54,235 --> 00:06:58,255 And sometimes people are very afraid to fail because that culture is in there in their workforce. 124 00:06:58,344 --> 00:07:00,745 I think, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot of truth. 125 00:07:00,745 --> 00:07:05,485 You know, certainly we, we, we share something which is, uh, you know, if hanging around the music world and. 126 00:07:05,895 --> 00:07:14,265 I think, um, just making music with other musicians taught me the whole, like, you've gotta have feedback and actually people give very little feedback, but it's either good or it's not. 127 00:07:14,415 --> 00:07:18,885 In business, there is a sort of, everything's candy sugarcoated all the time. 128 00:07:18,915 --> 00:07:23,655 You know, feedback is, it's hard to give feedback, you know, and it's, it's not often done. 129 00:07:23,655 --> 00:07:26,655 And there's a lot, there's this huge movement over the last 10, 20 years I've. 130 00:07:26,780 --> 00:07:40,580 Clients who do it, you know, who do this sort of psychological analysis of leadership, cuz it sort of breaks down to these, you know, certain things and you know, that, that, that you, you basically need a bit of self-awareness and then you can kind of say, well here you are on the graph. 131 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,010 And great leaders seem to have these qualities. 132 00:07:43,010 --> 00:07:52,429 And so Formula One or music, these areas, you know, they're often full of, you know, a lot of the most extreme people or extreme extreme intelligence, I guess. 133 00:07:52,429 --> 00:07:52,700 So. 134 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:55,979 You know, formula One's this weird little world, isn't it? 135 00:07:55,979 --> 00:07:58,950 It's this whole little par paradigm of sort of extremists. 136 00:07:59,039 --> 00:07:59,940 Okay, so cool. 137 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:03,780 We worked out that, I mean, is there any of these things that you enjoy more than others? 138 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:04,169 No. 139 00:08:04,169 --> 00:08:06,690 I get asked that question all the time and is my yin and yang. 140 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:10,049 Music is yin, uh, motor sport is yang is one. 141 00:08:10,055 --> 00:08:10,979 Can't live without the other. 142 00:08:10,984 --> 00:08:11,159 What Word? 143 00:08:11,270 --> 00:08:11,469 Podcast? 144 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:15,719 Podcast is the, is a, is a, is a media marketing kind of tool, right? 145 00:08:15,719 --> 00:08:16,620 Ying yang and bang. 146 00:08:17,435 --> 00:08:19,055 What do you find yourself doing most of? 147 00:08:19,145 --> 00:08:21,485 Honestly, I've split it into one third, one third, one third. 148 00:08:21,485 --> 00:08:24,275 That's literally just how I've designed, you know, managed to design it. 149 00:08:24,305 --> 00:08:26,615 There were moments where I was more in one, more in another. 150 00:08:26,705 --> 00:08:34,565 Do you think, uh, from what you've seen in Formula One, it would suggest you have, you should focus, like you should be, I'm not modern thing is everyone does three things, you know, fuck. 151 00:08:34,565 --> 00:08:38,195 I dunno how many things I do, but, you know, do you feel if I'm really gonna be good at it? 152 00:08:38,195 --> 00:08:43,145 No, because I did do music full time for a long time and I realized I need, I need other things to stimulate me. 153 00:08:44,225 --> 00:08:44,255 I. 154 00:08:44,255 --> 00:08:48,810 Other, I need to, I can't, I can't just be like in that world for the 24 7. 155 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:57,090 It's very intense that lifestyle and I, and the things I want now and music are different to what I wanted in my early twenties, you know, um, when I was doing it full-time and 156 00:08:57,630 --> 00:09:05,850 motorsport, um, yeah, one could argue if I was just doing it full-time, but, you know, I, I grew up, ID like thinking, you know, rich Branson was a great inspiration because he had. 157 00:09:06,345 --> 00:09:10,425 You know, he is in more than three industries, you know, probably like 30, 40. 158 00:09:10,425 --> 00:09:12,165 And he was doing well in all of them. 159 00:09:12,255 --> 00:09:16,725 So you look at someone like him and uh, and in the end it comes down to having a team that's. 160 00:09:17,055 --> 00:09:17,865 That's what it cut you. 161 00:09:17,865 --> 00:09:26,715 You, if you want to do all of these things, you, you need to have as you as a team, like that's paramount and the business side of the, the motor business, therefore would be what? 162 00:09:26,775 --> 00:09:29,295 Yeah, so we have two different, we have two separate arms. 163 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:31,245 We have our community, which is our members club. 164 00:09:31,695 --> 00:09:35,445 Very private, very uh, curated network events driven. 165 00:09:35,445 --> 00:09:36,585 We'll do seven events a year. 166 00:09:36,585 --> 00:09:40,275 We'll also do a leadership retreat somewhere around the world, and that's amazing. 167 00:09:40,305 --> 00:09:44,805 But our, I think our real next stage is going into the corporate market, so doing. 168 00:09:45,354 --> 00:09:47,395 These corporate retreats for companies. 169 00:09:47,395 --> 00:09:52,104 Um, I'd been planning that for a few years before the pandemic and we were just about to launch when the pandemic happened. 170 00:09:52,104 --> 00:09:58,704 So it's not the pri big priority right now to go for that right this minute, cuz there are other things are going on, like the podcast agency for example. 171 00:09:58,704 --> 00:10:04,314 But that would be the next stage of growth and evolution for the business to, to enter a corporate market, you know? 172 00:10:04,344 --> 00:10:09,180 So you'd be taking a, a team from a company rather than, you know, People who are from all different parts. 173 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:12,450 That makes sense cuz that sounds like something that you could get investment for. 174 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:12,810 Yeah. 175 00:10:12,810 --> 00:10:13,350 A hundred percent. 176 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,050 You know that people would be interested in taking a stake off. 177 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:16,740 Definitely. 178 00:10:16,740 --> 00:10:17,070 Definitely. 179 00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:22,620 And we, there is like not that many companies doing, doing this, like exactly what I've said. 180 00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:25,560 So these events do, do some DJing and also do a podcast. 181 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:26,220 Of course, yeah. 182 00:10:26,290 --> 00:10:26,580 Yeah. 183 00:10:27,330 --> 00:10:27,740 Slice and dice. 184 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:35,125 I've DJ for Motorsport Brands, DJ Goodwood Festival, speed DJ'ed at Formula One events, you know, sample the sound of cars, you know. 185 00:10:35,185 --> 00:10:35,844 Oh, that's quite cool. 186 00:10:35,935 --> 00:10:42,324 Obviously curate all the music of the road trips, you know, like it's, it's just weaved through like the whole way, so Excellent. 187 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:54,060 And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by URI Clark, straight Talking financial and legal advice since 1935. 188 00:10:54,420 --> 00:10:56,910 You can find us@oriclark.com. 189 00:11:00,090 --> 00:11:01,950 What do you think is Bullshit and business? 190 00:11:02,265 --> 00:11:06,495 Yeah, if I should speak from the lens of music, um, I think streaming is an absolute joke. 191 00:11:06,945 --> 00:11:15,555 I just think the way the music industry's been killed, you know, um, decimated and the way that fans, they idolize musicians, like people will become obsessive. 192 00:11:15,555 --> 00:11:20,325 They peeing with a DJ is so cool, like all this stuff, but then not willing to pay one pound to buy a song. 193 00:11:20,415 --> 00:11:29,459 But just, could I break down the, the philosophy, so, As a technology, just purely as a technology forgetting about the financial basis, a way for people to get their music and access music. 194 00:11:29,459 --> 00:11:30,510 You think that's bad? 195 00:11:30,599 --> 00:11:31,410 No, I think, yeah. 196 00:11:31,410 --> 00:11:35,730 Obviously being able to go on your phone and, and play, have a catalog of music is great. 197 00:11:35,730 --> 00:11:40,680 Obviously there is a debate about the sustainability of that, but that we can leave that for, for another time. 198 00:11:41,099 --> 00:11:42,030 So let's forget the energy. 199 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:42,339 One minute. 200 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,620 So is the money one accessible? 201 00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:48,990 Yeah, the money, because the money that gets made to Spotify does not get, I mean, you need 1 million streams to make a thousand pounds. 202 00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:49,860 I, I get that. 203 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,480 I get that, but Spotify's losing money. 204 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:53,680 They're still not making money. 205 00:11:53,710 --> 00:11:53,800 Yeah. 206 00:11:53,830 --> 00:11:57,340 Because they're spending millions on sponsoring football teams and doing other things. 207 00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:58,840 Well, they're just bu they're building a business. 208 00:11:58,845 --> 00:12:03,910 What I'm saying is Spotify the, the idea that Spotify a si, we've got all this money. 209 00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:05,800 They're don't, it's funded by venture capital. 210 00:12:05,805 --> 00:12:09,850 Yeah, but they do have money and they don't pay pay, pay artists fairly, I mean, that's just. 211 00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:18,090 Everyone knows that like Spotify has killed the music industry because in a way it's sort of like, it's just this mindset like we just don't want to pay for music. 212 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:24,480 I don't think it's fair to say that Spotify, I think the music industry has changed and it became free quite a while ago. 213 00:12:24,689 --> 00:12:26,910 It did, of course, and of before that it would became free. 214 00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:27,300 Yeah, of course. 215 00:12:27,305 --> 00:12:31,650 And, and it's beautiful when in a way that it became free, but there's a real problem then about. 216 00:12:31,765 --> 00:12:32,725 Earning money from it. 217 00:12:32,725 --> 00:12:34,704 But that's just a change in, in an industry. 218 00:12:34,704 --> 00:12:36,895 No, because like before, people used to pay for music, right? 219 00:12:36,895 --> 00:12:41,095 So if there were also a lot less artists, there's actually a lot more artists than there were back in the day. 220 00:12:41,095 --> 00:12:44,335 Cuz the accessibility to make music is, we can make that on our phone, which is great. 221 00:12:44,665 --> 00:12:47,185 But the same time, trust me, like the. 222 00:12:47,385 --> 00:12:52,785 You know, the streaming aspect of it has taken away this mindset that, you know, we should pay anything for music. 223 00:12:53,175 --> 00:12:54,465 We just want it for, for free. 224 00:12:54,465 --> 00:12:58,065 We don't care how we get it, we don't care about the quality, we just want it for free. 225 00:12:58,305 --> 00:13:04,545 Meanwhile, I, I'm happy to pay 300 pounds to see, you know, Adele in concert or whatever, but I'm not happy to buy her music. 226 00:13:04,545 --> 00:13:11,814 I'm not happy to support that, and it's created this huge, it's a two extreme end of the spectrum, like, There should be a better business model for Spotify. 227 00:13:11,844 --> 00:13:12,594 They do have money. 228 00:13:12,594 --> 00:13:14,604 They pay their employees a ridiculous amount of money. 229 00:13:14,964 --> 00:13:21,025 You know, just because they're not publicly making money on a balance sheet, that doesn't mean they're not taking in a ridiculous amount of money where they're spending. 230 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:22,344 That is a different question. 231 00:13:22,344 --> 00:13:31,100 How they're paying artists is a very questionable, you know, that It just puts too much pressure on performance and when something like Covid comes along, You don't have performance. 232 00:13:31,340 --> 00:13:34,460 And it's also, maybe artists don't want to tour on that scale to make money. 233 00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:37,760 Like it's unhealthy to be touring 300 days out of a year. 234 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,160 Like not all artists want that lifestyle. 235 00:13:40,165 --> 00:13:44,900 And, and the fact that, you know, there should be a way to, to make money through your, through your streams. 236 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:47,870 Like it sort of sounds like, and you could spin this out to anything. 237 00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:55,185 It's a bit like, you know, People buying clothes from certain shops that cost because they cost three pounds. 238 00:13:55,215 --> 00:13:55,455 Yeah. 239 00:13:55,545 --> 00:13:57,375 When somewhere else they'll cost 30. 240 00:13:57,405 --> 00:13:57,765 Sure. 241 00:13:57,824 --> 00:13:59,805 And they're just thinking, this is great. 242 00:13:59,805 --> 00:14:00,735 This is really cheap. 243 00:14:00,765 --> 00:14:04,635 And not appreciating that it's because it's been made in a sweat shop in wherever. 244 00:14:04,875 --> 00:14:08,385 Sounds to me like you are kind of making an argument for sustainable music. 245 00:14:08,415 --> 00:14:08,595 Yeah. 246 00:14:08,895 --> 00:14:09,465 In the same way. 247 00:14:09,465 --> 00:14:11,685 Sustainable fashion or sustainable anything else? 248 00:14:11,715 --> 00:14:11,925 Yeah. 249 00:14:11,925 --> 00:14:17,205 I mean, look, a big artists have also tried to go against the platform, but in the end, the platform always wins cuz they have visibility. 250 00:14:17,205 --> 00:14:18,074 And this is the biggest. 251 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:18,930 Thing. 252 00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:21,900 So whether that's changing the pricing model, what, what is it? 253 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:22,200 You know, who knows? 254 00:14:23,385 --> 00:14:30,135 But at the end of the day, the facts remain there to make even a thousand pounds in one year, of which probably 50% is going to the label. 255 00:14:30,585 --> 00:14:35,295 You know, you need to have a million streams and not, not all music is, is, is at that mass market level. 256 00:14:35,295 --> 00:14:38,565 So like, it's quite hard, you know, to, to hit that benchmark. 257 00:14:38,575 --> 00:14:41,195 The, the thing is, everybody wants to be a musician. 258 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:42,250 Everybody. 259 00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:44,520 I so don't want to be a musician. 260 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:44,840 Maybe you don't. 261 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:44,841 Okay. 262 00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:47,020 A lot of people want to be rock stars. 263 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,200 I have never in my entire life, ever wanted to be, to be rockstar. 264 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:59,200 I mean, mean that basic theory, if you said you get paid per hour based on the job working in the sewers, trying hundred to quit an hour, gotta be 200 quid an hour fucking down in the sewers. 265 00:14:59,205 --> 00:15:00,970 I mean, that is a shit job. 266 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:01,390 Yeah. 267 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,540 And, and like, you know, it's like, fuck, I've need some money. 268 00:15:04,780 --> 00:15:06,160 Why don't you go down, work in the sewers, mate. 269 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:06,640 You're right. 270 00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:07,870 I'm gonna go do the sewers. 271 00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:08,260 Yeah. 272 00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:12,435 Now, Doing music, performing, live recording music. 273 00:15:12,435 --> 00:15:15,765 These are some of the most enjoyable things I've ever experienced in my life. 274 00:15:15,795 --> 00:15:16,185 Yeah. 275 00:15:16,575 --> 00:15:19,485 And therefore, I probably should get paid a penny an hour. 276 00:15:19,695 --> 00:15:21,045 In fact, you should pay us. 277 00:15:21,135 --> 00:15:21,885 I think I should pay. 278 00:15:21,890 --> 00:15:22,035 Pay us. 279 00:15:22,185 --> 00:15:25,125 There was a golden era when CDs and things were being sold. 280 00:15:25,155 --> 00:15:25,545 I think. 281 00:15:25,575 --> 00:15:32,385 I think my, my point I'm trying to get to is things have changed and it's bad at the moment if you want to earn money outta music. 282 00:15:32,385 --> 00:15:32,655 Yeah. 283 00:15:32,715 --> 00:15:33,885 It's really fucked up. 284 00:15:33,915 --> 00:15:34,335 Yes. 285 00:15:34,340 --> 00:15:34,735 Really beautiful. 286 00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:35,475 Really fucked up. 287 00:15:35,475 --> 00:15:38,055 But, People haven't stopped making music. 288 00:15:38,055 --> 00:15:46,755 And I dunno if you have a solution, cuz solutions are there, you know, there's people who are making money, whether it be through merch or bank camp or tours, they're finding ways that, 289 00:15:46,785 --> 00:15:56,985 you know, um, getting sponsored, you know, it, it, it's, and America and Britain are quite unusual that we don't really, we have the arts council and stuff, but basically brutally. 290 00:15:57,635 --> 00:15:59,795 You have to find a way to make it make money. 291 00:15:59,795 --> 00:16:02,195 If you wanna make it a bit, you, you have to work it out. 292 00:16:02,195 --> 00:16:06,635 And all these artists still appear and they still work out how to do it with social media often with little money. 293 00:16:07,115 --> 00:16:09,995 Um, and they, they fucking work it out somehow. 294 00:16:10,145 --> 00:16:11,255 And that's the system here. 295 00:16:11,255 --> 00:16:13,445 It's not France where they go, oh, you're a good musician. 296 00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:14,435 It's 50 grand a year. 297 00:16:14,435 --> 00:16:15,275 So it's brutal. 298 00:16:15,275 --> 00:16:16,625 The system's brutal. 299 00:16:16,655 --> 00:16:18,575 I don't think it's Spotify. 300 00:16:18,575 --> 00:16:25,445 I think Spotify had a brilliant product, like Amazon had a brilliant product, but you know, it's not, you can't sort of, we just like online shopping. 301 00:16:25,445 --> 00:16:26,825 We just like getting our music. 302 00:16:26,825 --> 00:16:27,400 It that way. 303 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,170 So my problem is, is that everybody wants to earn money outta music and everyone wants to do it. 304 00:16:32,170 --> 00:16:33,760 And it's a really nice thing to do. 305 00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:37,300 Well, when something is like that, it's gonna be fucking tough. 306 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:39,790 But my other example, my simple example, an accountant. 307 00:16:40,215 --> 00:16:41,535 Anyone can be an accountant. 308 00:16:41,595 --> 00:16:42,405 I'm an accountant. 309 00:16:42,405 --> 00:16:49,995 Anyone who works hard, you don't even need to be that bright, can be an accountant and you could be a shit accountant and you could still have a good living. 310 00:16:50,295 --> 00:16:51,765 You can still have a good living. 311 00:16:51,765 --> 00:16:53,925 So I feel you're passionate about it. 312 00:16:53,925 --> 00:16:55,545 I know this is the correct view. 313 00:16:55,545 --> 00:16:56,865 I know that's what everyone's saying. 314 00:16:56,895 --> 00:16:58,665 Everyone's saying fucking, it's ridiculous. 315 00:16:58,670 --> 00:17:06,015 Spotify and musicians are suffering badly and some of them are good friends of mine, but I just, I just think things are evolving. 316 00:17:06,045 --> 00:17:07,275 People are finding ways. 317 00:17:07,905 --> 00:17:08,444 Do I do? 318 00:17:08,444 --> 00:17:15,435 I think that it's bad that music is free when it gives so much happiness and I make music regardless whether you pay me or not. 319 00:17:15,525 --> 00:17:21,615 You know, look, you know, I, you know, it's part of the, like today, being a musician, a very small part of it's actually being a musician. 320 00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:24,075 The rest of it is running a business, like doing marketing. 321 00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:29,889 Doing social media, knowing your accounts, it's always, I mean, that's the joke of the music, the glamor of the music industry. 322 00:17:29,889 --> 00:17:31,000 Stuffing envelopes. 323 00:17:31,030 --> 00:17:31,179 Yeah. 324 00:17:31,179 --> 00:17:41,199 Doing social media, you know, I mean, and it's this, it's this frustration of jobs and a common theme will be with, I think we all find ourselves saying, we probably say even as Prof, I just wanna do my job, you know? 325 00:17:41,205 --> 00:17:41,270 Yeah. 326 00:17:41,274 --> 00:17:42,489 I just wanna do the bit I like. 327 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,969 But that is the job, and every job, it's like 99 bullshit. 328 00:17:46,225 --> 00:17:47,545 One bit a good bit, you know? 329 00:17:47,755 --> 00:17:59,665 Well, to be honest, it's a bit more, a cousy is really difficult and then I do all this admin, but in music it's very like, you know, think about how fucking around there is to get a gig or something and then to get there and then it cancels or something. 330 00:17:59,665 --> 00:18:02,755 I know to actually get people to listen to your music, you know, is difficult. 331 00:18:02,755 --> 00:18:05,155 You know, it's, it's like, oh, can I look you up on Instagram first? 332 00:18:05,155 --> 00:18:05,935 What's your image? 333 00:18:06,355 --> 00:18:06,655 Right? 334 00:18:06,655 --> 00:18:07,735 That's the world we live in today. 335 00:18:07,735 --> 00:18:11,365 So if you do want to be a musician, yes, you have to get on with it in that mind, in that. 336 00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:12,380 Set in that sense. 337 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:18,950 But I do think, you know, the, just the way that there is, the, the distribution of money is, is extremely uneven. 338 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:20,050 And it's extremely unfair. 339 00:18:20,050 --> 00:18:20,170 Yeah. 340 00:18:20,175 --> 00:18:23,120 And it, and it shouldn't be that way because music is making a lot of money. 341 00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:26,540 It's just where it's distribution and how it's distributed is very questionable. 342 00:18:28,125 --> 00:18:32,475 Okay, so this is, we're gonna ask you a list of questions to get to know you a little better. 343 00:18:32,505 --> 00:18:35,025 You have about five to 10 seconds per question. 344 00:18:35,295 --> 00:18:36,675 You don't have to stick to that. 345 00:18:36,895 --> 00:18:38,415 Yes, you do have to stick to that. 346 00:18:38,415 --> 00:18:40,995 Does not have to stick you, don't we Good beginning, strict on that. 347 00:18:41,025 --> 00:18:41,055 Okay. 348 00:18:41,085 --> 00:18:42,105 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 349 00:18:42,105 --> 00:18:43,665 Don't start giving the leeway. 350 00:18:43,695 --> 00:18:46,155 I mean, you know, 15 seconds might be right. 351 00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:47,935 Antonia, cue the music. 352 00:18:49,044 --> 00:18:49,705 Gosh, that's weird. 353 00:18:49,824 --> 00:18:50,605 Not Thank Dave. 354 00:18:50,605 --> 00:18:55,165 Our producer is, uh, got his, uh, right hand man here today. 355 00:18:55,225 --> 00:18:56,125 Uh, very good. 356 00:18:56,125 --> 00:18:56,754 And we're off. 357 00:18:56,814 --> 00:18:57,804 What was your first job? 358 00:18:58,465 --> 00:18:59,274 It was fun enough. 359 00:18:59,274 --> 00:19:03,745 An internship at Gumbel 3000, which is a luxury sort of road trip company. 360 00:19:03,745 --> 00:19:06,445 They drive around the world in 3000 miles in seven days. 361 00:19:06,865 --> 00:19:08,274 That sounds like a fucking great job. 362 00:19:08,274 --> 00:19:08,844 It's a great job. 363 00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:09,385 What was your worst. 364 00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:09,720 Job. 365 00:19:09,810 --> 00:19:14,760 I'm lucky to say I've actually never had a worst job because I've honestly started my business as quite young as well. 366 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:20,850 So I sort of, I've had some difficult bosses, there's no doubt, but never really done anything I didn't like, to be honest. 367 00:19:21,150 --> 00:19:22,350 Oh, that's desperately disappointing. 368 00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:23,400 Favorite subjects at school? 369 00:19:23,670 --> 00:19:25,830 Um, history and Eco or economics, one of the two. 370 00:19:26,615 --> 00:19:27,155 Okay. 371 00:19:27,395 --> 00:19:27,575 Yep. 372 00:19:28,235 --> 00:19:29,585 What did you wanna be when you grew up? 373 00:19:29,585 --> 00:19:31,985 Funnily enough, I actually wanted to be a lawyer when I was growing up. 374 00:19:32,135 --> 00:19:34,715 All the best people, God, that, you know, what was innocent? 375 00:19:34,715 --> 00:19:37,565 It was thinking, no, it's, it's definitely not my cup of tea. 376 00:19:37,565 --> 00:19:42,575 But I, the innocence was thinking that it's all for defending people who are like, good. 377 00:19:43,024 --> 00:19:47,794 But then I didn't realize that the bad people also need lawyers that I was about to say all the best people do. 378 00:19:47,794 --> 00:19:51,105 And then realized that when I was growing up, I did not want to be a lawyer. 379 00:19:51,505 --> 00:19:53,485 Yeah, that is the common reason. 380 00:19:53,485 --> 00:19:57,985 It's, it's like the American version of like, you know, being a lawyer to protect it or whatever, protect people, people. 381 00:19:57,985 --> 00:20:00,475 But I mean, that's actually wanting to be a barrister, you know? 382 00:20:00,475 --> 00:20:03,535 It, it's so lost here, but really what you, you're signing up for five seconds. 383 00:20:03,535 --> 00:20:05,425 There's a lot of paperwork, you know? 384 00:20:05,425 --> 00:20:05,485 Yeah. 385 00:20:05,575 --> 00:20:07,075 I just love paperwork. 386 00:20:07,495 --> 00:20:09,175 What's your go-to karaoke song? 387 00:20:09,535 --> 00:20:13,795 Um, I'm not into karaoke, but if I did Ram Me Fast Car by Tracy Chapman. 388 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:14,780 Good song. 389 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:15,470 Good song. 390 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,520 Obviously Office, dogs, business, all bullshit. 391 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:20,390 Well, why not? 392 00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:22,160 I mean tin, why not? 393 00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:23,750 Yeah, business in business. 394 00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:24,050 Yeah. 395 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:24,380 Okay. 396 00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:24,650 Yeah. 397 00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:25,040 Why not? 398 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:25,910 Yeah, why not? 399 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:27,680 Have you ever been fired? 400 00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:28,130 Nope. 401 00:20:29,540 --> 00:20:30,860 That's a very disappointing. 402 00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:32,000 These you need, sorry. 403 00:20:32,570 --> 00:20:33,290 What's your vice? 404 00:20:33,305 --> 00:20:34,235 A chocolate. 405 00:20:34,595 --> 00:20:34,985 Chocolate. 406 00:20:35,045 --> 00:20:35,795 Yeah, too. 407 00:20:35,825 --> 00:20:37,115 I love chocolate way too much. 408 00:20:40,715 --> 00:20:45,935 So this is where we give you 30 seconds to pitch your company, your podcast, whatever you want. 409 00:20:45,935 --> 00:20:46,415 Off you go. 410 00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:47,555 30 seconds. 411 00:20:47,585 --> 00:20:48,155 Uh, yeah. 412 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,065 Just find me at DJ dot n one NJ on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, all that good stuff if you wanna come. 413 00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:55,715 Racing is that regions racing. 414 00:20:56,405 --> 00:20:56,915 And that's it. 415 00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:57,750 Nice. 416 00:20:57,810 --> 00:20:58,290 Brilliant. 417 00:20:58,290 --> 00:20:59,760 So there you have it, Farrah. 418 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,440 That was, uh, fantastic. 419 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,900 This has been this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit. 420 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:05,040 Thank you, Pippa. 421 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,820 And we'll be back with Bwb Extra on Thursday. 422 00:21:08,825 --> 00:21:09,750 Until then, ciao. 423 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:10,910 Thank you, CCIA Joeo.