Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.
I am Andy Orian.
Alongside me is my co-host, Pippa Sturtz.
Hi Andy.
And today we are joined by Farrah Nji.
Farrah is a London born dj, a producer, a podcaster, a public speaker span, a wide range of interests for producing a playing music all over the world, to hosting TED Talks and having our own podcasts.
So, How you doing?
Great to have you on the podcast.
So we always like to, um, start with an initial question, which is, uh, what's keeping you up at night?
Making music.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I'm most creative at night, so, you know, I just can't help myself.
I've got my studio in my room, so I just, I just gravitate to it.
And what's your primary business?
Primary business.
Um, honestly, they're, they're equal split podcasting.
I run a podcast agency, a motor sports events company, and then obviously the DJ thing, which, which is like running a business and a podcast agency in terms of, uh, in terms of basically producing content for brands.
So, okay.
That, that was actually born out of the pandemic.
So it's my sort of my latest one, but it's, it's doing quite well, so yeah.
Yeah, A pandemic killed music and motor sport for, for a couple of years, you know.
So, um, but motor sport has sport entirely stopped as well.
Didn't in the pandemic, yes.
Yeah, unfortunately it just wasn't feasible for us.
I hear they're doing, um, London's got going to do, um, formula One.
Do you know this?
They say that, but I think it will always stay at Silverstone as part of the British heritage.
So they're gonna do both?
They'll do both.
Well, I've met the people involved in it and it, it is public.
I think you could look up PR articles.
They've gr it's sta out by, um, east London.
They've got all the rights to do it.
I mean, it'll take a few years to put together.
So what, tell us about this Motorsport business.
What is this?
So basically we explore leadership through motorsports.
So, Um, we look at the fundamental like peak performance, what kinds of motor sport, any motor sport.
We explore all different avenues.
So our events could be rallying, it could be four by four, it could be carting, it could be single Cs, but the whole ethos is motorbikes.
Yeah, motorbikes.
Um, but really, can we, can we take, you know, section of peak performance or sustainability, managing risk, you know, trans digital transformation.
So kind of looking at how the pinnacle of our, of our sport does it and, and really bringing that to a wider audience who, you know, maybe aren't gonna be racing cars every day.
Give us an example.
Give an example.
Um, so for example, blind driving with Land Rover.
That always gets, you know, people excited.
It's that really Test blind people driving Landover?
No, you, you are blindfolded and you are driving a car, a Land rover in a controlled space.
Obviously it's got thousands of hectares of land.
And it's operated by Land Rover since you know it's been purpose built, but you'll be going through like deep water.
You can't see your navi, your copilot.
It's telling you like turn left by like five o'clock.
What is this?
This, this a sort of a, a leadership training for the individual driving.
It's for the com our community, so our community comes the the, the what?
The motor sport community, the community.
That's basically members of this car, of this race and club.
So there are people who love cars.
Uh, they geek out on f1.
Some of them might be racing themselves.
They just love, they just love cars.
What, what, what's the aim of blindfolding someone?
So that's more to really test your, you know, your trust with your co-pilot, the confidence in the person that's with you saying turn fucking right now.
So it's leadership in motorsport?
No leadership through motorsports.
So you, you look at how does, for example, if we go to an F1 factory, We have a, a, a talk by Peak performance coach, or a workshop, and our community, a lot of them are entrepreneurs, founders, or they're, you know, c-suites executives and
they're, they're looking to kind of, you know, learn more and challenge themselves and, and get out of their sort of comfort zone and think differently and, and also be com connected to a community of people that, you know, like similar things.
So they're having a good day, but they're also like sort of, you know, leadership training.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So there, there's always a takeaway because there's a lot of companies that do.
You know, like kind of what you said, but for us, our demographic of individuals, they are su super into, you know, entrepreneurship and the racing club is how many people?
Um, it's a small, it's like under 200 people.
And is it quite a kind of mixed punch?
I mean, how does it divide between men and women?
Yeah, it's actually got more women, um, than the average statistic.
Just a, because I'm running it b because there's a huge interest, you know, in motor sport for females.
But it hasn't maybe, maybe like, Me running it is like keeping a very safe environment.
It's, I'm very particular about who comes into the club.
We are very international, um, community because we have a partnership, um, an informal partnership with the business school I went to in, in Regions park.
And um, the students there are like 90% from different countries, so, You know, you end up leaving with friends from all different parts of the world who, who like cars.
So you, you know, I've been to Kenya and I've been, you know, rallying in Kenya with my Kenyan friends who are out there.
Or you go to Norway and it's more like ice driving.
Go to Japan, it's drifting.
So it's really cool because I.
You know, we all travel a lot and you can leave with, you know, some really cool friends in different parts.
So it's a lovely club.
But what's the leadership bit?
The leadership bit is like, okay, if I, if you could take, you know, how could a Formula One driver and a team think, like, how do they do things at Oh, so looking at motorsport as inspiration Exactly.
To run your business.
From or to, to, to, you know, and he's, he's motor sport a good inspiration.
It sees a very one man, you know, one woman go false, don't break.
Yeah.
It's just like, there's usually one person, there's a team behind it going, fuck it.
Hell don't do that, Gary.
You know, whatever.
It, it, it, it, it's, uh, is that, do you find that a good representative of business?
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a, but there's definitely a public perception.
Um, but when you get under the scenes and you work in the industry, I mean, it's you, you don't work in Formula One.
If you're average, you know, you are top of the top.
Whether that's marketing, whether that's engineering, graphic design, Hospitality, like you are the best of the best.
And so how do you motivate that workforce to stay, um, you know, to stay competitive, to be at their top of their game, to work across 22 different time zones, which, you know, a lot of business leaders face the same problem.
Like, how do we attract and retain top level talent?
How do we.
You know, uh, not burn out while working on the road.
How do we operate under a global media scrutiny?
What are some of the answers, do you think?
What are, what are the motor sport things that you've, you've seen, uh, uh, a good, uh, lessons for us in the rest of the world?
I think there's a relentless pursuit of perfection and also uncovering like marginal gains and being like obsessive about that.
So when you see a race, a lot of the times, Those drivers, even if they win a race, they go back to the debrief room and they're debriefing in there for hours.
They're not sitting there drinking champagne and celebrating till five in the morning.
You know, I'm sure they'll celebrate, of course.
But the first thing that they do is they, they, they remember everything that they, you know, could have or maybe went wrong.
And I think it's like really kind of getting comfortable with like, you know, Uncovering, like that level of performance means getting uncomfortable and, you know, facing these things head on.
It also means understanding how to manage risk so you don't take a corner like flat out at a hundred and whatever miles an hour.
You, you have data, you have, you've also pushed yourself to find that, to find that limit.
And sometimes, you know, there's a fear of failure, but in Formula One, You know, or motor sport fail failure means innovation.
That means like, you know, if you, if you fail, then you know what you can do better.
And sometimes people are very afraid to fail because that culture is in there in their workforce.
I think, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot of truth.
You know, certainly we, we, we share something which is, uh, you know, if hanging around the music world and.
I think, um, just making music with other musicians taught me the whole, like, you've gotta have feedback and actually people give very little feedback, but it's either good or it's not.
In business, there is a sort of, everything's candy sugarcoated all the time.
You know, feedback is, it's hard to give feedback, you know, and it's, it's not often done.
And there's a lot, there's this huge movement over the last 10, 20 years I've.
Clients who do it, you know, who do this sort of psychological analysis of leadership, cuz it sort of breaks down to these, you know, certain things and you know, that, that, that you, you basically need a bit of self-awareness and then you can kind of say, well here you are on the graph.
And great leaders seem to have these qualities.
And so Formula One or music, these areas, you know, they're often full of, you know, a lot of the most extreme people or extreme extreme intelligence, I guess.
So.
You know, formula One's this weird little world, isn't it?
It's this whole little par paradigm of sort of extremists.
Okay, so cool.
We worked out that, I mean, is there any of these things that you enjoy more than others?
No.
I get asked that question all the time and is my yin and yang.
Music is yin, uh, motor sport is yang is one.
Can't live without the other.
What Word?
Podcast?
Podcast is the, is a, is a, is a media marketing kind of tool, right?
Ying yang and bang.
What do you find yourself doing most of?
Honestly, I've split it into one third, one third, one third.
That's literally just how I've designed, you know, managed to design it.
There were moments where I was more in one, more in another.
Do you think, uh, from what you've seen in Formula One, it would suggest you have, you should focus, like you should be, I'm not modern thing is everyone does three things, you know, fuck.
I dunno how many things I do, but, you know, do you feel if I'm really gonna be good at it?
No, because I did do music full time for a long time and I realized I need, I need other things to stimulate me.
I.
Other, I need to, I can't, I can't just be like in that world for the 24 7.
It's very intense that lifestyle and I, and the things I want now and music are different to what I wanted in my early twenties, you know, um, when I was doing it full-time and
motorsport, um, yeah, one could argue if I was just doing it full-time, but, you know, I, I grew up, ID like thinking, you know, rich Branson was a great inspiration because he had.
You know, he is in more than three industries, you know, probably like 30, 40.
And he was doing well in all of them.
So you look at someone like him and uh, and in the end it comes down to having a team that's.
That's what it cut you.
You, if you want to do all of these things, you, you need to have as you as a team, like that's paramount and the business side of the, the motor business, therefore would be what?
Yeah, so we have two different, we have two separate arms.
We have our community, which is our members club.
Very private, very uh, curated network events driven.
We'll do seven events a year.
We'll also do a leadership retreat somewhere around the world, and that's amazing.
But our, I think our real next stage is going into the corporate market, so doing.
These corporate retreats for companies.
Um, I'd been planning that for a few years before the pandemic and we were just about to launch when the pandemic happened.
So it's not the pri big priority right now to go for that right this minute, cuz there are other things are going on, like the podcast agency for example.
But that would be the next stage of growth and evolution for the business to, to enter a corporate market, you know?
So you'd be taking a, a team from a company rather than, you know, People who are from all different parts.
That makes sense cuz that sounds like something that you could get investment for.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
You know that people would be interested in taking a stake off.
Definitely.
And we, there is like not that many companies doing, doing this, like exactly what I've said.
So these events do, do some DJing and also do a podcast.
Of course, yeah.
Yeah.
Slice and dice.
I've DJ for Motorsport Brands, DJ Goodwood Festival, speed DJ'ed at Formula One events, you know, sample the sound of cars, you know.
Oh, that's quite cool.
Obviously curate all the music of the road trips, you know, like it's, it's just weaved through like the whole way, so Excellent.
And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by URI Clark, straight Talking financial and legal advice since 1935.
You can find us@oriclark.com.
What do you think is Bullshit and business?
Yeah, if I should speak from the lens of music, um, I think streaming is an absolute joke.
I just think the way the music industry's been killed, you know, um, decimated and the way that fans, they idolize musicians, like people will become obsessive.
They peeing with a DJ is so cool, like all this stuff, but then not willing to pay one pound to buy a song.
But just, could I break down the, the philosophy, so, As a technology, just purely as a technology forgetting about the financial basis, a way for people to get their music and access music.
You think that's bad?
No, I think, yeah.
Obviously being able to go on your phone and, and play, have a catalog of music is great.
Obviously there is a debate about the sustainability of that, but that we can leave that for, for another time.
So let's forget the energy.
One minute.
So is the money one accessible?
Yeah, the money, because the money that gets made to Spotify does not get, I mean, you need 1 million streams to make a thousand pounds.
I, I get that.
I get that, but Spotify's losing money.
They're still not making money.
Yeah.
Because they're spending millions on sponsoring football teams and doing other things.
Well, they're just bu they're building a business.
What I'm saying is Spotify the, the idea that Spotify a si, we've got all this money.
They're don't, it's funded by venture capital.
Yeah, but they do have money and they don't pay pay, pay artists fairly, I mean, that's just.
Everyone knows that like Spotify has killed the music industry because in a way it's sort of like, it's just this mindset like we just don't want to pay for music.
I don't think it's fair to say that Spotify, I think the music industry has changed and it became free quite a while ago.
It did, of course, and of before that it would became free.
Yeah, of course.
And, and it's beautiful when in a way that it became free, but there's a real problem then about.
Earning money from it.
But that's just a change in, in an industry.
No, because like before, people used to pay for music, right?
So if there were also a lot less artists, there's actually a lot more artists than there were back in the day.
Cuz the accessibility to make music is, we can make that on our phone, which is great.
But the same time, trust me, like the.
You know, the streaming aspect of it has taken away this mindset that, you know, we should pay anything for music.
We just want it for, for free.
We don't care how we get it, we don't care about the quality, we just want it for free.
Meanwhile, I, I'm happy to pay 300 pounds to see, you know, Adele in concert or whatever, but I'm not happy to buy her music.
I'm not happy to support that, and it's created this huge, it's a two extreme end of the spectrum, like, There should be a better business model for Spotify.
They do have money.
They pay their employees a ridiculous amount of money.
You know, just because they're not publicly making money on a balance sheet, that doesn't mean they're not taking in a ridiculous amount of money where they're spending.
That is a different question.
How they're paying artists is a very questionable, you know, that It just puts too much pressure on performance and when something like Covid comes along, You don't have performance.
And it's also, maybe artists don't want to tour on that scale to make money.
Like it's unhealthy to be touring 300 days out of a year.
Like not all artists want that lifestyle.
And, and the fact that, you know, there should be a way to, to make money through your, through your streams.
Like it sort of sounds like, and you could spin this out to anything.
It's a bit like, you know, People buying clothes from certain shops that cost because they cost three pounds.
Yeah.
When somewhere else they'll cost 30.
Sure.
And they're just thinking, this is great.
This is really cheap.
And not appreciating that it's because it's been made in a sweat shop in wherever.
Sounds to me like you are kind of making an argument for sustainable music.
Yeah.
In the same way.
Sustainable fashion or sustainable anything else?
Yeah.
I mean, look, a big artists have also tried to go against the platform, but in the end, the platform always wins cuz they have visibility.
And this is the biggest.
Thing.
So whether that's changing the pricing model, what, what is it?
You know, who knows?
But at the end of the day, the facts remain there to make even a thousand pounds in one year, of which probably 50% is going to the label.
You know, you need to have a million streams and not, not all music is, is, is at that mass market level.
So like, it's quite hard, you know, to, to hit that benchmark.
The, the thing is, everybody wants to be a musician.
Everybody.
I so don't want to be a musician.
Maybe you don't.
Okay.
A lot of people want to be rock stars.
I have never in my entire life, ever wanted to be, to be rockstar.
I mean, mean that basic theory, if you said you get paid per hour based on the job working in the sewers, trying hundred to quit an hour, gotta be 200 quid an hour fucking down in the sewers.
I mean, that is a shit job.
Yeah.
And, and like, you know, it's like, fuck, I've need some money.
Why don't you go down, work in the sewers, mate.
You're right.
I'm gonna go do the sewers.
Yeah.
Now, Doing music, performing, live recording music.
These are some of the most enjoyable things I've ever experienced in my life.
Yeah.
And therefore, I probably should get paid a penny an hour.
In fact, you should pay us.
I think I should pay.
Pay us.
There was a golden era when CDs and things were being sold.
I think.
I think my, my point I'm trying to get to is things have changed and it's bad at the moment if you want to earn money outta music.
Yeah.
It's really fucked up.
Yes.
Really beautiful.
Really fucked up.
But, People haven't stopped making music.
And I dunno if you have a solution, cuz solutions are there, you know, there's people who are making money, whether it be through merch or bank camp or tours, they're finding ways that,
you know, um, getting sponsored, you know, it, it, it's, and America and Britain are quite unusual that we don't really, we have the arts council and stuff, but basically brutally.
You have to find a way to make it make money.
If you wanna make it a bit, you, you have to work it out.
And all these artists still appear and they still work out how to do it with social media often with little money.
Um, and they, they fucking work it out somehow.
And that's the system here.
It's not France where they go, oh, you're a good musician.
It's 50 grand a year.
So it's brutal.
The system's brutal.
I don't think it's Spotify.
I think Spotify had a brilliant product, like Amazon had a brilliant product, but you know, it's not, you can't sort of, we just like online shopping.
We just like getting our music.
It that way.
So my problem is, is that everybody wants to earn money outta music and everyone wants to do it.
And it's a really nice thing to do.
Well, when something is like that, it's gonna be fucking tough.
But my other example, my simple example, an accountant.
Anyone can be an accountant.
I'm an accountant.
Anyone who works hard, you don't even need to be that bright, can be an accountant and you could be a shit accountant and you could still have a good living.
You can still have a good living.
So I feel you're passionate about it.
I know this is the correct view.
I know that's what everyone's saying.
Everyone's saying fucking, it's ridiculous.
Spotify and musicians are suffering badly and some of them are good friends of mine, but I just, I just think things are evolving.
People are finding ways.
Do I do?
I think that it's bad that music is free when it gives so much happiness and I make music regardless whether you pay me or not.
You know, look, you know, I, you know, it's part of the, like today, being a musician, a very small part of it's actually being a musician.
The rest of it is running a business, like doing marketing.
Doing social media, knowing your accounts, it's always, I mean, that's the joke of the music, the glamor of the music industry.
Stuffing envelopes.
Yeah.
Doing social media, you know, I mean, and it's this, it's this frustration of jobs and a common theme will be with, I think we all find ourselves saying, we probably say even as Prof, I just wanna do my job, you know?
Yeah.
I just wanna do the bit I like.
But that is the job, and every job, it's like 99 bullshit.
One bit a good bit, you know?
Well, to be honest, it's a bit more, a cousy is really difficult and then I do all this admin, but in music it's very like, you know, think about how fucking around there is to get a gig or something and then to get there and then it cancels or something.
I know to actually get people to listen to your music, you know, is difficult.
You know, it's, it's like, oh, can I look you up on Instagram first?
What's your image?
Right?
That's the world we live in today.
So if you do want to be a musician, yes, you have to get on with it in that mind, in that.
Set in that sense.
But I do think, you know, the, just the way that there is, the, the distribution of money is, is extremely uneven.
And it's extremely unfair.
Yeah.
And it, and it shouldn't be that way because music is making a lot of money.
It's just where it's distribution and how it's distributed is very questionable.
Okay, so this is, we're gonna ask you a list of questions to get to know you a little better.
You have about five to 10 seconds per question.
You don't have to stick to that.
Yes, you do have to stick to that.
Does not have to stick you, don't we Good beginning, strict on that.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't start giving the leeway.
I mean, you know, 15 seconds might be right.
Antonia, cue the music.
Gosh, that's weird.
Not Thank Dave.
Our producer is, uh, got his, uh, right hand man here today.
Uh, very good.
And we're off.
What was your first job?
It was fun enough.
An internship at Gumbel 3000, which is a luxury sort of road trip company.
They drive around the world in 3000 miles in seven days.
That sounds like a fucking great job.
It's a great job.
What was your worst.
Job.
I'm lucky to say I've actually never had a worst job because I've honestly started my business as quite young as well.
So I sort of, I've had some difficult bosses, there's no doubt, but never really done anything I didn't like, to be honest.
Oh, that's desperately disappointing.
Favorite subjects at school?
Um, history and Eco or economics, one of the two.
Okay.
Yep.
What did you wanna be when you grew up?
Funnily enough, I actually wanted to be a lawyer when I was growing up.
All the best people, God, that, you know, what was innocent?
It was thinking, no, it's, it's definitely not my cup of tea.
But I, the innocence was thinking that it's all for defending people who are like, good.
But then I didn't realize that the bad people also need lawyers that I was about to say all the best people do.
And then realized that when I was growing up, I did not want to be a lawyer.
Yeah, that is the common reason.
It's, it's like the American version of like, you know, being a lawyer to protect it or whatever, protect people, people.
But I mean, that's actually wanting to be a barrister, you know?
It, it's so lost here, but really what you, you're signing up for five seconds.
There's a lot of paperwork, you know?
Yeah.
I just love paperwork.
What's your go-to karaoke song?
Um, I'm not into karaoke, but if I did Ram Me Fast Car by Tracy Chapman.
Good song.
Obviously Office, dogs, business, all bullshit.
Well, why not?
I mean tin, why not?
Yeah, business in business.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Why not?
Yeah, why not?
Have you ever been fired?
Nope.
That's a very disappointing.
These you need, sorry.
What's your vice?
A chocolate.
Chocolate.
Yeah, too.
I love chocolate way too much.
So this is where we give you 30 seconds to pitch your company, your podcast, whatever you want.
Off you go.
30 seconds.
Uh, yeah.
Just find me at DJ dot n one NJ on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, all that good stuff if you wanna come.
Racing is that regions racing.
And that's it.
Nice.
Brilliant.
So there you have it, Farrah.
That was, uh, fantastic.
This has been this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit.
Thank you, Pippa.
And we'll be back with Bwb Extra on Thursday.
Until then, ciao.
Thank you, CCIA Joeo.