[00:00:02] Uffe Isolotto: I didn't know if everything would fit together or if it would work. Everything was in the sketch so I had to have people believe me or believe in the project without nobody ever seeing like a full sketch of everything. So I had to use a lot of people skills to do that.

[00:00:21] I had to make those two things work together and that really caused a lot of problems. Because nobody had the experience with that. also I will probably not do it again.

[00:00:32] I think I'm way too curious to just have one medium. So I tend to just be an amateur in everything I do and just finding really good people who can do really good work to cover up my mistakes in a way.

[00:00:48] To be honest, it was really awkwardly quiet for a long time. I was prepared to be pulled in different directions, but what happened was that nothing happened. I was really puzzled by that.

[00:01:09] Anastasia: Welcome back to the Installation Art podcast, the world's number one and only podcast about installation, art, and the people who work with it. In this show, you will hear about the joys and challenges of the medium and get an exclusive behind the scenes look at the career and process of internationally renowned guests.

I am your host, Anastasia Parmson.

This episode is a particularly special one for me as I finally get to speak with an artist who I hoped to have on the show since the beginning, but didn't dare to ask until now. My guest today is Uffe Isolotto, a Danish artist working across digital and physical sculpture, as well as film and animation.

His practice, weaves together, hyperrealism with unreality, world-building, collaboration and deeply immersive storytelling.

He represented Denmark at the 59th Venice Biennale in 2022, which is where I had the opportunity to experience his work We Walked the Earth, a haunting and super detailed installation for the Danish pavilion.

It was one of those works, you know when you see some amazing art and your mind is blown and there's like fireworks going off in your brain and you have to go back and look at it again and the experience somehow changes you. Yeah, well that was one of those works for me. So it's an absolute honor to introduce my today's guest, Uffe Isolotto.

[00:02:51] Uffe Isolotto: Thanks for inviting me.

[00:02:52] Anastasia: Thank you so much for coming. Oh my God. I've actually wanted to invite you on the show since I started the show, but I just didn't dare to ask.

[00:03:01] Uffe Isolotto: oh, yeah. That's, that's okay. I'm always available.

[00:03:05] Anastasia: Cool. Well how about we start with some very simple, easygoing questions to get into the groove, and then we get into the meat of the story.

[00:03:16] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah, sure. That's a good idea.

[00:03:19] Anastasia: All right, well, tell me how's your work life balance?

[00:03:23] Uffe Isolotto: Well, I, I have a studio and I've been practicing art since, well, since I left art school. And I had jobs of course, to support my artistic practice. But now, it must have been five years ago now, I could kind of support myself from like, doing what I do because I got the the Venice projects to work on. And so I've been yeah, independent artist and quite flexible ever since. So.

[00:03:56] Anastasia: So you're busy. I.

[00:03:58] Uffe Isolotto: I have been busy up until now for the last, I mean, half year, but there, there've been periods of time where I haven't been that busy. I think after, I mean, of course I was quite busy with the Venice project and, and after that it was kind of, you know, there's a period of time where, you know, you have to sort of reassess or like figure out what happened. And it was kind of quiet for a very long time and I, I needed that. So, yeah. Busy. Yeah. At times.

[00:04:33] Anastasia: Mm-hmm. Okay, well, we'll come back to that. That's a whole story of its own. What's your favorite beverage in the studio?

[00:04:43] Uffe Isolotto: Right now I'm just drinking water because my voice. But otherwise it's just coffee. It's a lot coffee of coffee

[00:04:50] Anastasia: How do you take your coffee?

[00:04:51] Uffe Isolotto: black espresso, preferably. so lots of coffee in the studio. I, I share a studio with, I think we know like maybe five, six other artists. So it's like a community. And lots of time, like many morning meetings and we just chat, gossip, hang out. They're all friends. And I share a studio with my wife too, so it's very intimate to have friends and your spouse. So lots of stuff happens around the coffee maker.

[00:05:23] Anastasia: Yeah. I didn't know that your wife is also an artist. That's, that's cool. I.

[00:05:28] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah, we met in art school and have been together for 23 years. So yeah, we have a family. I have big kids and they're kind of adult now, so there's a lot of more time on our hands now to actually make art than years ago.

[00:05:46] Anastasia: What do you like to listen to while you're working?

[00:05:49] Uffe Isolotto: I need to listen to something that doesn't have any words. So no podcasts, no radio well some radio NTS radio and stuff like that. But usually it's like neoclassical or it's ambient music, depending on the mood that I need to be in. Like if it's production, it needs to be really jazzy or upbeat.

[00:06:13] Or if it's just thinking music I listen to Neoclassical works. Also compositions for movies like Soundscapes, soundtracks, something that just flows. Yeah, very rarely it's like hits. That's a Friday mood, I think. I kind of always used music when I work. I mean, I think many people do. But um, my early artworks were almost always named after lines from songs like bits that I could scrape off from like things that inspired me emotionally or touched me.

[00:06:47] I was having a really hard time finding a title for the Venice project, and then I listened to this song and something just caught me and I turned it into a title in a way.

[00:06:57] Anastasia: Ah, so it's from a song

[00:06:59] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah, it's not directly, I mean, the line is very different. It's in Swedish and it's like totally different. But, there was something in the, the emotion that I could kind of echo. So, yeah, I listen to music as a work tool, but also as a place to find I don't know, just, the words are betterer of emotions.

[00:07:20] Anastasia: Yeah. Well, let's go back in time a bit and start from the beginning. Tell me a bit about where did you grow up and how did you come to discover Art for yourself?

[00:07:35] Uffe Isolotto: Sure. I grew up in a small town in the northwestern part of Denmark, quite close to the coast. It's a beautiful coastline and sandy beaches and rough nature. And as a child you don't really appreciate that stuff. I mean, sure you go for a swim, but it was just later that I appreciated coming from that place.

[00:08:02] But it was also very remote area and there were no like museums nearby. So, I mean, luckily my, my parents brought me on trips to museums and I remember just being dumbfounded in front of these artworks, like specific artworks that just struck me, they were very different than what we had at home.

[00:08:25] At home mainly we had reproductions of artworks, you know, like museum posters. But there I saw like real artworks and sculpture. mean, I like paintings and flat images, but it was just like the sculpture that really struck me. so I guess I just encountered a couple of really interesting sculptures and I kind of decided quite early on when I was 16 that I want to be an artist. And my, my parents, they said like, well, you never draw. And I'm, not very good at drawing, so that's kind of true. So to them it was like, if you wanted to draw or do something creative, you have to work within advertising or sign making or something. Like the whole abstractional level of, of art wasn't there.

[00:09:15] So I had to figure it out by myself. And yeah. So I went to a, a school, at the age of 19 and met like a huge bunch of other kids who also want to be in art and just moved to Copenhagen and, and kind of just, yeah, educate myself. But I mean I didn't enter art school until I was 25, so I just spent like years just doing stuff, working at farms in factories and writing poetry and initially I just wanted to be a poet.

[00:09:46] I mean, visual art was very interesting, but poetry, that intimate space it created with me and the words, it felt like I could develop something that was very instantaneous and raw. And so I had a typewriter, actually this was years ago. So I was just traveling around from a typewriter and living in caravans and you know, it sounds very romantic, but it's, and then I got my first computer because my dad worked with computers very early on. And when I got that, I just went into like, you know, Photoshop and started painting basically.

[00:10:23] And those were the things that I applied to art school with. They didn't know what to do with my paintings because they were like digital images. So they were like, yeah, you should actually use like acrylics and a brush on a canvas because that's painting. Or you can make wrapping paper that's also nice. But like, that's not really what I wanna do.

[00:10:43] And that was in 2001. So I kind of left that. because it didn't really echo with my professors or with the other kids at school, so I couldn't figure out what to do with it. And I had all these, words on a page. I had some kind of visual skills.

[00:11:03] So after a while it dawned on me that these words on a page, I positioned them on the page and that page was kind of the space. And the words were kind of like objects, or they symbolized this, they were in the place of objects. So I started working with ready-mades because then I could arrange the ready-mades with in the space as the words on the paper. And it really worked for me for a very long time. Like working with ready-mades, assisted  ready-mades, and also because I was never really good at producing stuff. I mean, that was a, not a problem, but a hurdle for me. and after a while, I wanted to do something more elaborate or thorough or like, well-produced work, but it was just so much work. And yeah, I'm kind of impatient, so I just want to do a lot of work.

[00:11:54] I have many ideas, like I have more ideas than I have time, so I figured out what if I just work with people or have somebody else do my 3D animation or welding or something. So I didn't have to acquire the skills to do it. And I made some works in that line and it's just years later that it kind of came together and I had the, like, the budget to actually hire people or work on bigger scales.

[00:12:26] Now I, I mostly work on like larger scale projects involving people and big budgets and I like big spaces. Yeah.

[00:12:36] Anastasia: how did you first get into making installations? Was it during your readymade period?

[00:12:42] Uffe Isolotto: Well, yeah, I, well, as a student I did what most students do. You make like a small object and put it in the corner

[00:12:49] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:50] Uffe Isolotto: like, as part of group exhibition, and. And I decided I wanted to do something bigger. I could see that the friends that I had, or the artists that I looked to were like taking the space.

[00:13:03] And I really wanted to take the space. So I decided I wanted to do a couple of larger installations. Still object based, not like, like immersive installations. yeah, so it was like a conscious, deliberate decision to try to take the space. And I created, you know, there was a concept around it and still quite kind of muddy.

[00:13:25] But luckily then I, I was asked to do a public art commission and the freedom in that, to take like a whole building and be able to create something that really capsules the whole space or like takes the whole space, felt really good. So it was a kind of a step by step process.

[00:13:46] And I still do public art commissions, so I did a few like, biannual projects but it was, it was with the Venice Bienalle project that I for the first time did like a huge installation.

[00:14:02] Anastasia: Okay. And how did you get into showing your art? What were your first, like, bigger opportunities? Was it that public artwork?

[00:14:12] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah, I, I think public art was really a break for me to show what I could do with the bigger budgets and...

[00:14:20] Anastasia: how did that come about for a young artist?

[00:14:24] Uffe Isolotto: Well, luckily there are more and more opportunities for younger artists to show works. when I made my first public commission, it was really like the old, older artists.

[00:14:34] There were like a generation of artists who were like sat on the fat, they had been there for years and they're good at it and they produced all these giant works in steel and all these nice durable materials. Kind of very eighties approach to sculpture and such.

[00:14:54] That kind of changed because the Danish Art Foundation. they started to make competitions, inviting younger artists to participate in these competitions.

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[00:16:11] Anastasia: So tell me about, how did this Venice project come about? How did you even get the nomination to represent Denmark?

[00:16:20] Uffe Isolotto: Okay. So the invitation to Venice was based on an open call and I just finished work in Santiago de Chile for the biennale there. And I couldn't go to Chile because two weeks before the opening when we're supposed to go there, there was like a riot or like a public outrawr, and they were fighting in the streets and it's like, oh, we have no traveling plans then.

[00:16:46] Anastasia: Oh no.

[00:16:46] Uffe Isolotto: We're supposed to go to desert. And I was really looking forward to that. So we opted to go to Morocco instead. And I was in the airport at the gates and this newsletter ticked in. I was like, oh, there's an open call for Venice. And I just had this kind of horrendous experience doing the project for Chile.

[00:17:07] And so I was like no, no, no, I'm gonna do that. But then a couple days later, I was in the bus in Morocco going to the coast. I was kind of inspired by what was going on with the local population and the, the craftsmanship that they had and the way they worked. And it felt be really never been to Africa before. This is North Africa, of course. But it felt like I was touching something that I never experienced before. And it felt, I mean, time was, you were walking around in spaces that looked exactly like they did 100, maybe 200 years ago. And yeah, that inspired me to think about something.

[00:17:49] so I decided to apply for the Venice Biennale. So when I got back home, I started formulating some ideas and doing some sketches, and they're like, far from what really ended up being in the, in the Danish pavilion. So I applied and there were like many people who applied, but I was lucky to be chosen.

[00:18:07] Yeah, so I kind of developed it from there. And it changed and became what it was in the process.

[00:18:14] I mean, it was a big budget and I, I always wanted to do hyperrealistic work. It was something that I couldn't achieve on my own. So I had to find someone who could do it with me or for me. And, um, yeah, so I just saw an opportunity to do something that I never did, like a huge installation with hyperrealistic sculptures . But I also knew that it was a.

[00:18:37] I mean, I'd been to Venice before, and it's a very specific place. People have very short attention span because you're always onto the next pavilion. You're always onto the next exhibition. You're looking to see where you can find your spritz or your coffee or, I mean, the also the city is so vibrant and special. So it's a really hard competition about like, attention.

[00:19:00] So I kind of knew that I had to make something that was strong. That you wanted to stay in. Yeah, so, I want to create some strong images and they became very strong.

[00:19:11] Like, depiction of suicide is very strong and almost too much. So yeah, in the process there was some, considerations about like should we warn people about what they're about to see? Is is there a backlash? So all these things had to be worked out beforehand. Yeah. So I, I felt like I, I was ready for whatever came.

[00:19:32] Anastasia: Mm-hmm. So how did you go about finding the people to collaborate with, to help you create those parts that you couldn't fabricate yourself?

[00:19:45] Uffe Isolotto: I knew this this one guy that I was studying with years ago in 97 at a puppet maker school. We were both kids and we were studying puppet making, and it was really, small school, but he ended up working with their special effects makeup, and he's just a wizard. He's just really, really good at what he does.

[00:20:07] And he was working for this company that makes dinosaurs so I kind of knew the people. So I got in contact with them and they pointed me towards another guy Thomas Foldberg who does special effects makeup for movies, TV and series and movies. He's like also one of the best.

[00:20:25] So. From there, I had the core of the project, like the hyperrealistic sculptures. And then I just found people online, like design duo Soft Baroque that I work with. I really like their stuff and I just wrote them, can you make this? But just make it like a hundred times bigger and for Venice? And they're like, oh my God, of course we can.

[00:20:49] So that was fantastic. Also an artist working with glass sculptures that I asked to do bits for the show. So I really wanted to just find people who had a sense of artistry or like, it's a question about like chemistry and also approach to what they were doing.

[00:21:06] I knew that I wanted to work with people and preserve their artistic practice in a way. Or a design practice. So yeah, I think I ended up working as like a movie director and it was kind of, it was always the intention of of, of working in a similar way as making a movie because I knew it would be cinemato graphic.

[00:21:32] Like it would be very dramatic. It would be something that could be like on film or it felt like a film. You could walk onto a set. I worked with set painters also who did work for Lars Von Trier's movies. And so Yeah. And some people led to other people and some people I just found by coincidence, like reading an interview and stumbling upon a name.

[00:21:56] Yeah, so, I, I'm very curious about world building. And world building you use in movies literature, video games, you create the whole world, sort of decide everything's in the world. You consider everything geology monetary system, religion and everything. So I didn't do that. Like, I didn't make the whole world, but we kind of, what do you say? Like, laying the tracks.

[00:22:24] Anastasia: Well, it certainly felt like there was a huge backstory behind whatever you walked in on and saw. For me, it was instantly obvious, oh, something happened here. And we're just witnesses of a moment in time. And it is kind of like a movie still in a way. And you, you have to make up the stories in your mind, like, why is the garden the way it is?

[00:22:52] Why is this person here and that person that centaur and like even down to the smells and the, the peeling paint and my partner was especially impressed with those gates, the custom made metal work that was from a different time, like very futuristic. Did you think of all of those things yourself?

[00:23:16] Uffe Isolotto: Well, yes, I mean, all those things were of course, deliberate. I'm really happy that you mentioned the garden, because that hasn't had its glory. Some of it had a long production time. Like the metals that I did with soft baroque. Anodized aluminum gates in different colors to replace the outer doors was really important to create like a whole scene.

[00:23:42] And I knew that I had to use the space as it was. The Danish pavilion is like two structures put together, like merged. One is from 1930s and it looks historical. It has columns and it's a huge space. And then you have this 1960s almost like family home building that is attached to it, like a parasite, and they were combined. So that combination kind of made me think of the centaur as a hybrid or like double entity. And uh, things grew out of the space. It didn't change much. I painted the walls. I only built one wall, but I kind of tried to administer the space to make it feel like it was always that way.

[00:24:27] And, I had a very long time to do the project. Usually you have like one year, but because of COVID, the event was postponed one year, so I had an extra year, which was really great. I had time to go in depth and really be able to do all the details I mean, yeah, there's still a lot of details, but things I didn't do, but you have to leave something from the next project and stuff.

[00:24:51] Anastasia: how long did it take you to do the whole thing Until it was finished and installed. And how long did it take you to install it in space?

[00:24:59] Uffe Isolotto: We started working with the set painters in January and the exhibition opens in April. We started working in January and yeah, but it was only like five weeks. Of like really intense working time. So I was staying in Venice for five weeks and every week there were like new people.

[00:25:19] Then there were at the gates, and the next week you had the hyperrealistic sculptures coming in and being mounted. And I was in that pavilion. I didn't see much of Venice though. I was living nearby. So I was just going to work and back and having you know, sun, sun downer every day. And I was in this pavilion by night and the whole Giardini, like the whole gang was just closed off and it was storming and raining.

[00:25:45] And I was with these hyperrealistic sculptures just working, making, I mean, some of the sculptures in that space were made like very last minutes, almost the day before. So it was really, but that's kind of, I have all these very long processes of making stuff with other people, but I also need to be able to have something that's very intuitive, spontaneous and just me alone.

[00:26:14] So yeah, as to outbalance the whole big production scheme. The work was to make all those things fit together because you have a gate that makes out of anodized aluminum, and you have something that looks like it's couple hundred years old. So I knew those things weren't going to fit together. Like they're not from the same time, they're not made from the same material. So it's not like convincing time piece, or it is not about a specific time, but I also want to stretch time. So I deliberately chose very different materials or, or like looks of it, to be able to have at least sort of like a futuristic, nostalgic feel to it also.

[00:27:04] Because I was working with things that were happening in time. I mean, COVID was a big thing. The pandemic happened and was working through the pandemic. So the, the basis of the whole exhibition was to address some kind of uncertainty, some destabilization of our time. And this was something I felt before COVID, but it was just made stronger during COVID. Yeah.

[00:27:29] And then the, the war in Ukraine happened, just nearing the opening of the division. So the things became quite intense. I mean, they're much more intense now, I think. But at that time it felt like I had to reflect what was happening in our time. So to speak about our time, I want to go back in time. Elements that felt a bit into the future, like the gates, the and aluminum gates, for instance. Also, bits of the clothing that were inspired by space outfits. Outfits by fashion designer Anne Sofie Madsen that I work with.

[00:28:07] Yeah, so I didn't know if everything would fit together or if if it would work. everything was, you know, in the sketch or so I had to have people believe me or follow me or, yeah, believe in the project without nobody ever seeing like a full sketch of everything.

[00:28:30] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:31] Uffe Isolotto: And so I had to use a lot of, you know, people skills to do that.

[00:28:35] And I think, I think that's really part of the project. It's about making people invest in what you believe in. And I spent a lot of time because I didn't have a project manager, so I was doing the project managing, but also handling people's emotions in the process. Because, you know, they knew it was an important exhibition also for them.

[00:29:01] And so things got bit intense at times. So yeah, I had to, to use some of those people skills. And yeah, I find that bit quite interesting.

[00:29:11] Anastasia: do you have any specific examples of like snags you came up with? 'cause it's such a huge project with so many collaborators. I have to wonder what is it like to be kind of the orchestrator of all this and trying to mold it to your creative vision at the same time?

[00:29:33] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah, of course there are problems along the way that nobody could have anticipated. Because usually people work in their separate fields. Like if you're a special effects makeup artist, you work with silicon or resin and you know how that works. But there was also a part of the centaurs that were like taximized animal. So it was like organic material. so I had to make those two things work together and that really caused a lot of problems. Because nobody had the experience with that. also I will probably not do it again.

[00:30:08] Anastasia: Which part?

[00:30:09] Uffe Isolotto: Well I don't know, maybe I'll, I'll probably do it again. I dunno. Just, just throwing myself into the process of making that, it felt like an easy thing to do, but it was really hard thing to do. Also, just handling big fragile sculptures that are partly organic. Yeah. But I kind of like to throw myself into things that I don't know anything about. Very often just software and technology and processes. And yeah, sometimes it works out, So I, yeah, maybe I have, maybe I have to be better just finding my material, my approach, but I'm, I think I'm way too curious to just have like one shtick, one medium. So I tend to just be an amateur in everything I do and just finding really good people who can do like, really good work to cover up my mistakes in a way.

[00:31:10] And I know there's a nice energy to that because I take the chances. I'm, yeah, I'm quite willing to risk myself, but I'm kind of depending on having good people by my side to do that.

[00:31:24] Anastasia: Yeah. I love that. This is the, the polar

[00:31:27] opposite of a lot of artists, including myself, who are like alone in their studio. I feel like we can learn from each other and exchange maybe, and maybe like equalize it a bit. So what kind of skills did you have to learn along the way to do the work that you do now?

[00:31:48] Uffe Isolotto: Well, damn, I mean, I can do almost. I mean, I can do quite a lot of stuff, but like half good. So basic skills like welding or 3D animation or, yeah, woodworking. I mean, I can do basically a little bit of everything, but coming back to the people skill, I think one of the things that I've figured out is that that's probably one of the things that I had to learn most is to convince people that this is a good idea.

[00:32:21] So of course get a good idea and then also convince other people that they should be part of it.

[00:32:29] Recently, I just opened an exhibition. And it's a follow up to the exhibition in Venice. I mean, I have to say that the exhibition in Venice traveled and I showed it in Copenhagen and in, Riga in Latvia. And those installations were different.

[00:32:44] So I, did some work on that and I felt like I was done with the project sort of. So I wanted to do something new that was kind of similar. Had the design elements, worked with some of the same people, the fashion designer and the special effects makeup artist with the hyperrealistic sculpture, but this time it was a cult.

[00:33:05] I made a headquarter, kind of a corporate headquarter that was also like a living space. And it also had a reeducation space, so it was complete with a reception desk and waiting area, research facility, dressing room, reeducation center, church space, and some living quarters.

[00:33:26] And that kind of fit into the wing, the, the part of the museum that I installed my work in. And yeah, I mean it's, it's very new. So I, I am not quite sure what happened yet. But I felt like this following or, or making people believe in your ideas kind of became a theme for that show.

[00:33:48] Also the Venice project really created a lot of feedback. I mean, so, many messages, comments and everything. And some of these things went viral and other people took the project to the heart and, and they kind of owned it. Like, I, I realized for the first time that when you do something like that, you share it with other people and it's something that it humbles you, of course, because it's, it's really fantastic that other people can like what you do, but they also take it very closely.

[00:34:25] And so I was more curious about how to Yeah, work with the open narrative. And also what it means to, to merge completely with an artwork and to be part of, of something that's inanimate, something that is just hinting at illusion. I mean, hyperrealistic sculpture is quite realistic, of course, but I mean, some people will see it as a real human being and be carried away with that and, and really believe that this thing is, more real than is.

[00:34:59] Yeah. So, I was really curious about that. So I brought that into my exhibition. that opened, the Cult.

[00:35:05] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:06] Tell me a little bit about the aftermath of Venice. Like it's been a few years now since your show closed there. What's your impressions, your feelings about it? Like how has it impacted your career, if at all? What happened?

[00:35:25] Uffe Isolotto: Mm-hmm. To be honest, nothing much has happened. It was really awkwardly quiet for a long time. I don't know what to expect, but I kind of expected that things would move forward in a fast pace. Like I was prepared to be dragged around, like I was prepared to be pulled in different directions, but what happened was that nothing happened.

[00:35:55] I was really puzzled by that because I heard otherwise. But then I also heard that this is also the scenario when you do something like that. So I don't know if it's because it's like a huge installation and I know some institutions will feel pretty, they're reluctant to take on like huge installations from artists that are newcomers.

[00:36:21] Because it's a big budget thing to do. So I was thinking that might be the case. But I'm kind of happy now that that didn't happen because I had time to develop a practice rather than just trying to reproduce some kind of success. So now I'm, yeah, I'm definitely going in directions where I didn't expect. I mean, so many things are happening that I didn't expect which I'm really happy about.

[00:36:50] Anastasia: Like what?

[00:36:52] Uffe Isolotto: I was always hinting at movies, but maybe maybe I'll try to make a movie. I mean baby steps, but, maybe I'll go in that direction. It could be interesting to see if I could translate these kind of installations to, to movies. I mean, there's a difference because a movie is a linear product, it has a dramatic curve and you tell a specific story.

[00:37:20] Whereas I think, art installations, it is just a slice of time. It's just like a frozen still. And you can move around in it. And the way you put things together is depending on how your body moves through space and what you see first . And that's a more non-linear experience which I kind of prefer.

[00:37:43] I really like this sort of thematic uh, connection between things that everything's connected, but it's connected in ways that are very different for us. And everybody gets to take certain things away from that. And I like my work to be in different levels. You can approach it and you can get like an instant experience, but you can also stay with it and go deeper.

[00:38:06] And there are levels to it that can go very deep. So movies is just a different kind of game. But I yeah, again, I try to find some good people to work with who can support me on that course. So that's, that's the way I'm working now. And maybe it's still like very artsy movies.

[00:38:30] It's. I want to work with sculptures that are also sets or props. they are sculptures in themselves, but they also function as part of the production of a movie. So I guess it becomes very meta layered. So it's not, not going for like commercial movie.

[00:38:51] Anastasia: like art movie.

[00:38:52] Uffe Isolotto: Um, Yeah, I guess so. I guess it must be. When I was done with the Venice project, all I really wanted to do was to just write a book, like no production. No other people. Just words. No, but I have a couple books. I just haven't found the time.

[00:39:12] Anastasia: ah.

[00:39:13] Uffe Isolotto: but I really want to! There's something about putting words on paper that is the moment you put it there, it's, it's done.

[00:39:22] I know books are also printed and published and edited, but it feels like it's super satisfying when you write something you don't have to produce it. Whereas, When I do artworks, I have an idea and I sketch it, and then there's, a year of production. a lot of it is funding and macro decisions and small decisions about stuff you don't even really know about.

[00:39:48] So maybe there's something there. And of course there's a connection between writing and movies.

[00:39:54] Anastasia: Yeah, So let's see what that what I will do.

[00:39:58] Maybe your book is in fact a script for a movie.

[00:40:02] Uffe Isolotto: I think so. I think that might be it. Yeah. Well, anything can be a script but what I really like about movies is also just the attention that goes into details. I, I tend to go down rabbit holes, just working, reading about production, like set decorators and prop makers and costume makers, this whole sub level of concepts, ideas, and research. So I get a lot of inspiration from concept art sketches for movies and video games and all the work that goes into that. And yeah, world building. So I, I think, I'm curious about the process of making things also, that's why I like to do a show, an exhibition and then do another version of it, like an iteration. Because then it's like there's no final exhibition, there's no final work. I think that's really crucial how I think about artistic practice or, or artworks

[00:41:12] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:13] Uffe Isolotto: sometimes you have to say, okay, this is final. I have a couple pieces in museums and it's, it's a bit hard because they're there forever and they're probably the only artworks that will survive because the rest is just like, I dunno, will deteriorate. So this forever thing is kind of weird. Also making public art commissions that would outlive you.

[00:41:35] Anastasia: so you're not really aiming for archival quality work when you're producing stuff.

[00:41:42] Uffe Isolotto: Well, I guess I'm more and more aware of that and I am also kind of old enough to be a boring old fart and make a bonze sculpture. So that's what I'll do next is I'll make a bronze sculpture commission. I try to, bend that in ways that I can fit into it. It's an outdoor sculpture, so it makes sense to make it bronze, Marble. But also, of course, yeah. I'm curious about eternity of course.

[00:42:10] I'm 50 next year, so I'm in the middle of things like middle of life and posterity. I don't have to leave anything for after I'm gone. But you think about the vulnerability of life and how things disappear. And I believe that things should disappear and go into the ecosystem. I don't need a bronze sculpture to stay behind after me, but yeah, I really want to see what happens

[00:42:39] when you make a bronze sculpture. And you look at it and it's like, yeah, you, you're gonna outlive me by many, many years.

[00:42:48] The idea of long stretch of time, something that is bigger than us or longer than us is, it's fascinating. I worked with, as part of the installation in Venice, there was also like heaps of, of weeds like eelgrass which is something that has traditionally been used for like thatching roof on this small island in Denmark.

[00:43:13] Like it, it's just a heap of eelgrass and it lasts for two to 300 years, which is like much longer than any roof you would ever find anywhere else. And I used that in, in the installation, but I also used that in a public art commission that I made recently for university campus.

[00:43:30] Because 2-300 years is a very long time. And, um, We can only grasp a certain amount of time, like our own lifetime of course, but also we kind of know about our parents, grandparents. We can kind of think about how our kids' lives will be. But other than that, it is really hard to think generations ahead.

[00:43:52] So for this public art commission I was building cornerstones, they looked like trees, but they acted like pillars in a way for this invisible cathedral. Because I couldn't make a huge sculpture, like a huge installation. So I decided to just make the cornerstones or the pillars for this invisible cathedral.

[00:44:12] And this invisible cathedral is like the sum of the innovation that happens on the university campus. And is based on cathedral thinking. Something you produce or something you initiate that it extends your generation or the next generation, yeah. Something that has maybe utopian aspirations.

[00:44:37] And I think it's super important that we do that because it's very, I dunno, there are projects out there, but I'm not talking about populating Mars or anything. That doesn't really feel like it's sustainable. It's like a thing made for everybody on the planet. So I hope that um, that there'll be some thinking about like, future generations. I mean, and artwork can't change that, but, yeah, I think that's really at the core of my practice that I am, I care really much about humanity. But I also want to envision how things look in the future and try to pave the way for going in an interesting direction that will benefit people in the future.

[00:45:28] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:29] Uffe Isolotto: those are big words. I know, but I mean, that's, I.

[00:45:34] Anastasia: So speaking of future and future proofing, what happens to the elements of your work once an exhibition's over and the installation's packed up?

[00:45:45] Uffe Isolotto: Well, they go into storage. I have a barn south of Copenhagen in the countryside, so they go into my barn. I don't work with gallery and hopefully I can place some of the works in u museum collections so they can take care of it. But I mean, if the barn catches fire, then it would all just disappear.

[00:46:07] So, yeah, you have to live with that. Of course.

[00:46:11] Yeah. I don't have a big sort of need for afterlife. um, I want to do some publications on my work, but I've been quite hesitant to do like monograph uh, on my work. But I also see that it's interesting to get your work out there to a public besides doing yeah, exhibitions.

[00:46:35] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:36] Uffe Isolotto: So I'm working on that. I'm working on making more publications and being more public about my practice.

[00:46:43] Anastasia: And how do you approach the commercial aspect of your work?

[00:46:47] Uffe Isolotto: Well, I never worked with a gallery. I've been reluctant towards commercial, uh, like, selling work. So, yeah, I've been really making it hard for myself, in terms of the nature of the artwork or the themes of the artwork.

[00:47:03] But I also find it interesting to be able to support yourself through selling artworks, of course. I also think that mostly my, my work, fits into museum collections or eccentric public collections maybe. I also really want to work towards making smaller works and works that are more accessible, standalone works, something that is not part of installation.

[00:47:34] To me it's more about accessibility. it's really nice that people would want to have something that you made in their home because then it's a portal to a practice, to a way of thinking.

[00:47:47] They can access it, it can remind them about a perspective on the world and, and a way of thinking and, and also not gonna sound too religious, but it it's not a shrine, but it's a sort of it is something that can emanate something important, something that is, um, maybe more important than, what's next to it, the fridge or whatever.

[00:48:12] It's also important to have a fridge with food. but, you know, it's something that I've never given much thought because I wanted to be free in my artistic practice. it's definitely something that I'm aware of.

[00:48:25] Anastasia: So how do these super large immersive installation works get funded then?

[00:48:31] Uffe Isolotto: Oh, good idea to talk about. Well. we have the Danish Art Foundation, which is like the national funding system. And there's also private funds, the Carlsberg Foundation and also other big funds in Denmark. So I mainly get my funds from that, the private funds. But the private funds are quite proactive in going out there and, and funding projects that are difficult, in some sort of way.

[00:49:03] So they yeah, they're quite progressive, I think, more than they were 10 years ago. So yeah, it's, funding is through the system or through private funds. And then my private economy, of course, that whatever I throw into it myself.

[00:49:20] Anastasia: So you have to be really good at grant writing by now.

[00:49:24] Uffe Isolotto: I actually have, I work with people who can do that again, like fundraisers. And I also work with an agent, who's sort of my s manager too. So I have, people who can, uh, but yeah, I have written many, many, many grant applications in my time. But that doesn't mean I'm good at it, it just means that I've done it.

[00:49:46] There are people who do this for a living. And I mean, I could probably spend the time doing it myself, but, and also write more grants. But, um, as many other artists, I kind of find it a bit boring to do office work because I'd rather just be doing art. So, but it is an important part of artistic practice to, to fund it, of course.

[00:50:15] Anastasia: Do you have any behind the scenes stories of something going wrong during the transport or installation or exhibition process?

[00:50:28] Uffe Isolotto: uh, that's a good question. I was thinking about that actually prior to this conversation and um, yeah, stuff always goes wrong. But I kind of learned early on from doing martial arts, just a bit when I was younger, that it's a kind of energy and that energy can be redirected. So it's not necessarily always a problem. I mean, some things are a problem and then you have to solve it, but you don't solve it by pushing back. You solve it by going with it in a way. I mean, the show that I just opened two weeks ago, I had some I call it switch flap displays, kinds that go like changing, you know, from airports. Well, at least back in the days you had them in airports and train stations and they would go like show the next arrivals and, that was produced in China and they dropped the crate on the way to Denmark. When they arrived it was broken and bent and I had to Yeah, fix all that. It's, it is boring story, but it is like, stuff like that happens even though you try to prepare for it. So you just go with it and then you learn something about switch flap displays. So it's always a possibility to learn a new trade or, or learn something new. yeah, I mean, to be able to not stress too much about things. I don't take things too heavily.

[00:52:03] Anastasia: Is there a hard truth that you've had to learn as an artist?

[00:52:08] Uffe Isolotto: Wow. That's a good question. the boring answer is there's always something to learn. this is gonna sound self absorbed but. I think that I had to learn was that I'm not a very good artist in the traditional sense. I'm not good at, like, the craftsmanship of work is not good. That I have to rely on others, or that I have to rely on good ideas and people skills. I mean, I really admire those people who can use their hands and make amazing stuff, and it's a skill that I never had. and also, I find that this kind of artistic practice does exist, but it's something that I had to figure out along the way. How to able to, you know, call myself artist.

[00:53:01] Because when you tell people who are not in the art world that you're a artist. The responses may be like, okay, so what do you paint or

[00:53:10] Anastasia: Yeah. Do you paint or do you draw.

[00:53:13] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah. Like you have two choices. You can either do this and that. Or like, oh, okay, I make sculptures.

[00:53:19] Anastasia: and then you go on like it's installations and I mix different media and I work with people because it's collaborative and it's not really installation. It's also a bit fiction. It's also a bit film. It's also a bit performance. It's also a bit like a piece of literature and you kind of lost them at hello in a way.

[00:53:38] and I had to rely on, or, or trust that what I was doing was an artistic practice. This is like early on of course, but yeah, I don't know if it's a hard truth. But it's truth that I have to be comfortable with in a way. Because

[00:53:56] Uffe Isolotto: as much as I want to believe and say that the art world is like this open world where everything fits in, everything is welcome and there's no prejudice, I kind of feel the opposite, I feel that it's a very conservative world and it's world that's very protective around its own like practice.

[00:54:18] Anastasia: And when I look towards architecture, I look towards the design and literature and, and movies, I see... well also in the art world of course, but I see, I see people taking chances and having fun with what they do.

[00:54:34] It's been some hard years in the art world. Like

[00:54:36] Uffe Isolotto: the art world tends to eat itself up from the inside ' cause there's so many in-fights. Basically, I became an artist because I want to be my own boss. And I saw that there was this free space to do anything you want, but after a while you realize that it's not that free.

[00:54:52] And if you step outside the

[00:54:55] art

[00:54:55] and

[00:54:55] world, like if you want to work with design or with architecture, you might not be part of that world as it's not so open what you say, like it's, uh, it's hard the art world to be open towards other disciplines.

[00:55:11] Anastasia: Um, in some, places of course there is space.

[00:55:14] Have you ever felt like, this is it, I've made it now?

[00:55:19] Uffe Isolotto: at times, I think, I mean there are like crucial times. Of course when chosen to represent a nation at a prestigious biennial is of course this mind blowing thing and you have rushes of, of heat, um, and your body reacts and is like, this is crazy. But making it, I mean, it's really interesting.

[00:55:44] I think I have two things about this. Through the work I did for Simon Starling, I met some of his contemporaries, and I am not naming names, but I, I, I just saw something in their eyes that was like, they made all these fantastic shows and artworks but I could also tell that it took its toll and there's always a higher place you can go to. So there's no like end, there's no final destination. you can do steps, it's a stepping stone process, of course. And you can cherish whatever you achieved and, and be proud of that. but it's also a kind of world of illusions.

[00:56:27] When I left Venice after the opening, I got a call that I received like a huge grant, the biggest grant in Denmark.

[00:56:35] And it's like something you strive for when you're a student. When I get this, I'm like, that's it, now i'm recognized and I was really happy to get it. But I was also making the two big things, the Biennial and grants and I kind of did it at the same time. So I was left with: what Now? Because my younger self was kind of at the point where I imagined I could go to in some years. So I had to, yeah, I had to reinvent myself in a way. Or, or to get some new goals or go beyond in a way.

[00:57:13] Anastasia: yeah. Uh, I don't know what your experience is, but I feel like in art it's often either everything is happening at once and everyone wants something and there's projects falling in your lap or there's just nothing and you're wondering, Hmm, am I ever gonna have an exhibition again?

[00:57:35] Uffe Isolotto: Yes. so much insecurity, connected with the, uh, artistic practice. I can totally relate to that. And it's not, like it's gonna stop. You don't arrive to a point where you just, oh, now now, now I'm fine. Like, those were a couple hard years and now can just go and enjoy.

[00:57:52] And, uh, yeah, as you say, it's in waves. It's more about attention, I guess, and being out in the public. But people can be unimaginative and just pick the ones that are already being shown. So I try not to expect too much. I really don't want to be some kind of bitter artist, that hoped for something and then didn't get it, you know. Because I think it's so easy to be, uh, not satisfied what we call disappointed in the art world. You just have to live with the uncertainty.

[00:58:29] Anastasia: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:31] What advice would you give to a young artist who's starting out in the field of installation right now?

[00:58:38] Uffe Isolotto: well, in specific field of installation. I would say, um, I think space is really important and I don't have stuff to fill entire space all the time, so I do a lot of work with atmosphere. Like lights and scents and also sound. So you don't need much if you're just aware of the space and know how to, to work it. I mean, if you don't know to do it yourself, find a lighting designer or work with somebody who knows something about sound and then, um, take the space and then whatever you put into it will work.

[00:59:22] I mean, you can make the most beautiful or interesting piece of art and put in the space and it just bombs because it doesn't work in the space, if the surroundings are not happening. And I I, I prefer to find spaces that have some vibe in of themself, so I don't have to invent the space like a white cube is really a horror.

[00:59:44] So I, I would say if go location scouting and find interesting spaces outside institutions and try to make them your own or find interesting institutional spaces, of course. And just work with the space. Yeah, it's just shifting energy and not trying to, to go against it.

[01:00:06] That being said, there are amazing installations where people transform the whole space, but you have to have like a huge amount of energy to do that.

[01:00:14] Anastasia: Yeah.

[01:00:16] Uffe Isolotto: Which is not the case for me.

[01:00:18] Anastasia: Well, I feel like you do transform spaces like the Danish pavilion the Biennale after was completely unrecognizable compared to your work.

[01:00:29] Uffe Isolotto: That's true, yeah. It was also the direct opposite in a way. Like the same space was a space for photography, a very clean space yeah. I think when I was doing the Danish pavilion, I was thinking about like healing the space in a way. Because I don't think the architecture worked out. I, I mean, the architecture of the Danish pavilion was kind of like this parasitic architecture from the sixties and, and these things from the thirties, and it felt like it needed something else, like a third space.

[01:01:08] So I was, I was really put a lot, a lot of work into that space. Whereas the installation that I did after in Denmark with the centaurs,

[01:01:17] i, uh, I showed them at this amazing wooden building exhibition space called Den Frie meaning, the free, the free exhibition space And it's, a structure that is just made from boards and it has a vibe on its own, so it didn't have to do much with it. So it is really depending on what kind of space that I'm given or that I choose.

[01:01:41] Anastasia: Yeah. and what are you working on right now?

[01:01:45] Uffe Isolotto: I want to do like a series of performances in this exhibition that I just opened. So right now I'm talking to a script writer who's also done a lot of films, art films. And I want to do some performances with different people, some actors, and there's a rock star and maybe some students from the local school, maybe some cheerleaders. And just trying to make a cast of a motley crew, like cast that is like werdly composed. But they all like people who are in this cult. So this is gonna be like a series of small performances, like all actions. And, uh, we'll fill them and they'll work as like PR for the show, but just part of the exhibition.

[01:02:32] And maybe that will go on to be part of the exhibition in another way if I show the exhibition in some other space. So I'm trying to open up towards something that is possibly an even project. Yeah, so, so much of my focus right now is on how to work with video footage and sculpture and structures like cars and houses and things that house people or move people around.

[01:03:03] And so it's a bit far from the fantastical aspect of the, uh, Danish pavilion. but it has some of the same sort of interest in trying to create a machine for a story. And this machine for a story is the world building in Venice, the recent exhibition that I made called Milk Eye, um, but a machine could also just be a house or a car. So again, these are big budget things, so hopefully I would also have time to just make very, very, very small paintings or writing some poetry. Very few words.

[01:03:42] Anastasia: Hopefully!

[01:03:43] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah.

[01:03:44] Anastasia: um, or writing a script or a book.

[01:03:47] Uffe Isolotto: Yes. That's next.

[01:03:50] Anastasia: So where is this exhibition on right now and how long does it go for, the cult?

[01:03:55] Uffe Isolotto: It's in a town called Holstebro, it's on the west coast of Denmark. and it's on until end of November. And, there'll be a publication in relation to the exhibition. And I work with a curator Stephanie Costello, who's from Chicago but Canadian and, maybe we can take it to some other places.

[01:04:18] I really want to show my work outside Denmark again. I'm really interested to show this kind of projects in different cultural contexts contexts So I'm also trying to work with other curators. And uh, I feel like a lot of feedback that I get is from Southern Europe, US, South south America, and Asia.

[01:04:41] I mean, I didn't do like a whole survey of it. As I said, it's just like a feeling that maybe my work will fit well with the, um, more warm-blooded people. People who through religion or daily life deal with images of birth and death and those. So, um, I really want to see how my work performs or how, how is approached in other cultural contexts.

[01:05:12] Anastasia: Well I hope you can come and show it in Australia!

[01:05:15] Uffe Isolotto: Sure. I'd be happy to. I think it would work quite well in australia. I did a show in Australia that was years ago. I can't remember, but it was in Toowoomba, just, uh, south of Brisbane and did a small project there.

[01:05:30] So yeah, I've been, been to Australia once for two weeks and of course I loved it, but I never had the opportunity to show again.

[01:05:40] Anastasia: Yeah. I think the cult might be the project to bring here maybe.

[01:05:44] Uffe Isolotto: That could be. Yeah. Yeah. I also really feel that it's something that could work well in the US 'cause right now it feels like a cult already, so

[01:05:54] Anastasia: maybe it's a bit too on the nose for the US.

[01:05:57] Uffe Isolotto: Yeah. Yeah. You're probably right. I think so.

[01:06:00] Anastasia: Well Uffe, where can people, after listening to this go and see more of your work, find out more about you?

[01:06:08] Uffe Isolotto: I'm really bad at websites. I'm working on it people, but right now I have an Instagram, also not updated. What I find interesting is that you can find my work online, all kinds of places. I mean, it's TikTok, it's websites.

[01:06:25] So that's actually, um, yeah, that's something to be more curious about, the Venice project. I think I did like seven interviews on that, where I go really deep, if people are more curious about that project.

[01:06:40] Anastasia: Yeah, and it also has its own Instagram account, so.

[01:06:43] Uffe Isolotto: That is true. Yeah. It's called, we Walked the Earth just for the breaks and it's from my own Instagram account. And it's, it's documentation of the project in Venice and also the installation in Copenhagen so far.

[01:07:00] Uh, and this is of course also where updates are made. It's a resource if you want to know more.

[01:07:06] Anastasia: Well, I'll put the link to that and your Instagram in the show notes so people can go and check it out.

[01:07:13] Uffe Isolotto: Great! I would love to have a couple of new followers to be able to post something to.

[01:07:18] Anastasia: Well, thank you Uffe! It's been very interesting. Thanks for taking the time.

[01:07:23] Uffe Isolotto: Great. it's been quite interesting to talk about these things and so I was happy we had the time to really go through everything. And, yeah, thanks for the invitation.

[01:07:42] Anastasia: That was Uffe Isolotto, based in Copenhagen. You can go follow him on his Instagram @uffeisolotto and check out his Venice Biennale project on its own Instagram page @WeWalkedtheEarth.

I will put the links to those as well as everyone mentioned in this episode in the show notes and on our website installationartpodcast.com.

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