If your nervous system is always set up for chaos rather than

peace, it will seek out chaos. So

peace feels. Oh, that's weird.

So there's nothing to worry about. That's strange. I better go and

find something that causes drama or stress. Welcome to

the King Within, a podcast for men who seem to have it all, yet

feel like they're losing what matters most. I'm Mike Salemi and I've been

there. Successful on paper, but disconnected on the inside. This

isn't about grinding harder. It's about mastering your emotions,

leading with calm strength, and rebuilding trust at home.

Each week we dive into real stories and tools for becoming the man your family

runs towards, not away from. Because you didn't build this life to lose

yourself in it. This is the King within. Let's do the work.

Most men don't realize how much their language leaks their power.

Every maybe I'll try and I think quietly chips away at trust

with others and with themselves. And to be honest, I've caught myself

before doing the same. That's why this conversation hits home for me.

Today I'm joined by Ryan Martin, a high performance, health and vitality

coach who has spent years helping people rebuild their energy

and resilience from the inside out. Ryan recently returned from our

mental movement retreat and this conversation picks up right where that experience

left off in the integration, reflection and real

life application of what it means to live as a grounded man. We talk

about panic attacks that felt like heart attacks, the cost of over

commitment, and how cleaning up your language can change how your body,

your partner and your family feel you. If you're feeling

stretched thin between doing more and being more, this one's for you.

Please remember to follow the show and leave a quick review. It helps more men

find these conversations. Let's drop in you.

It was on one of the podcasts I listened to.

He's talked about soft talk. Yeah, I have

those sheets everywhere. Yeah, yeah, I have it here. It's one on the

fridge in the car. It's good. I

mean those words. What do you see on there? Probably, perhaps,

Feels like. Guess, maybe, could, might, sort of, kind

of. Potentially hopefully try one day. Should. Almost

like possibly. Possibly. Yeah,

very common. Which one's your most common?

Possibly, Potentially.

Yeah, probably. Try, May, maybe. I don't.

I'd actually. No, I'd say try. I don't say

that much. But possibly and potentially

probably the three piece.

I think for me, maybe

filler word for sure. Like or feels like.

Which actually isn't even a feeling. It's usually More of a thought.

No, like's not on there, but yeah, I, I, yeah, I use

that. Having been out of a girl from

California as well for three years, the Californians, Americans used

to like quite a lot. So, yeah, that's been one.

Just so people understand what

we're talking about. Yeah. So what we're talking about right now,

there's a word sheet right in front of

where the camera is, and it's a soft talk challenge. So this comes from

the enlifted method, which is really a lot of where my work with

language and story work comes from. Mark Englund is the founder of

that, let's just say, that brand of inner work. And so one of the

things, and this is super important, I believe, for all people, but especially for men

who want to step into, you know, we can say more of their king

energy or more competent and confident leaders who want to

be more decisive in their life. The repetitive and unconscious use of

our language is oftentimes what keeps us stuck in the same

negative cycle. And when we look at words which are the building block of any

story, if we look at the specific words we're using now, soft

talk words. I'll give you an example. I probably think

I should start working out sometime soon.

When I say that, what do you feel? What comes up?

Well, it's just. There's no commitment,

really. It's. It

doesn't have any conviction to it. There's no conviction, no commitment.

Absolutely. It's watery. Are you gonna trust me if I

say? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's no trust. Yeah, no trust. Because

you're not committing to anything. And so it's easy for you just

to break. It means that you're just. Yeah, you just, you're

flaky. Flaky. Yeah. And a lot of men

want to show up. At least the ones that I'm in front of, many that

you're in front of. They want to step up and

be more sovereign. They want to step up and be more

leaders of their own life and their families. And so when we use these words

like soft talk, it creates ambiguity,

indecisiveness. One foot in, one foot out.

And so if we just switch that to, we just call it solid talk. So

I think I said, and I think is a soft talk word, but I think

I said, and there's a prop, there's a, a time and a place to use

this stuff. Yeah, because you're actually thinking that you're

not going, oh, I think I might do. You're actually, you're actually

Trying to recall what you said. Exactly. So there's a time and a place as

long as their intentionality with it. But if I were to say

I'm going to start working out Wednesday at 5:00am, boom,

there's no way, like there is no question where I'm going

to be at 5am on that day this week. And so a big part of

this is to bring first and foremost into our awareness a lot

of these words that we don't even realize. Why. Why does my lady,

my wife, my girlfriend not feel safe in my presence or

not trust me, not trust my leadership as much as I would like.

And one of the areas to go, and this is one of four building blocks

of you and I were talking about very briefly before

recording around the victim mentality. You did

say that. And soft talk is one of the

four ish pillars of the victim mentality. So

just by having this in my awareness with every client session

with my own work, it's everywhere. And imagine what Luke

is going to grow up, you know, this bringing these words into awareness. And

Mark would say, he would say if you reduce your

soft Talk wording by 50%, you'll double your confidence.

And so however true that is, it really does land with me and a lot

of the men that we've cleaned up their language and to bring, if

and when they do use it, it's out of choice and

intentional. They're experienced so differently.

This goes on to some powerful stuff really, because

self confidence and self worth is something

I've struggled with

in terms of genuine self confidence, self worth when it comes to,

I think, just, yeah, past things that have happened

and then actually pretty believing in myself. It's interesting

because those words or, or just being intentional

with your language, not committing to things when

you know there's a possibility that you may not follow through on them, I

think is huge. I think I know it's

huge for me. And

when I was younger, my mum's always been very, very conscious

about, you know, if you commit to something, you,

you're gonna do it. And I'd say the world has probably worn me down

a little bit on that. And I've been like, oh,

people are like. I used to, when I, when I was younger, people were late.

I would take umbrage of it and I realized it was only really hurting me

because they didn't care if they were

late. And I'd be the one who was angry about them not respecting my time.

And so then I was just like, oh, people are just okay in general. They

don't mean it. They just. They just are. And so for

me now though, it's about having those standards for

myself. If other people break them, then,

okay, maybe bringing that up with them

and so able to have that conversation with them

and just understanding. I know when you have so many

things on your plate, I know most people's lives are not

just simple. They've got a lot of things going, a lot of moving parts. But

I used to, if I was to say to you, we were doing this podcast

and we're doing this podcast on the 31st of October, I'll be at your

house at 9:30. If I said that to you three weeks ago, it wouldn't matter.

I'd be here then. I know a lot of people. But are we still doing

this? We're still on. And it's like I made plans. I am. I'm.

Yeah. And so that's always been something for me as well. How

wish washy people can be. And never really made

sense to me because I was like, why would you

say this? And then not follow through? But I've realized that

I've been like that in certain other areas. And so

that was okay. Been out of alignment sometimes when I've

had past relationships and because I've had so many things going on and maybe I've

over, over committed myself to things. And

then I was like, okay. And you said that breaks trust with yourself, but it

also breaks trust with the person on the other side. And so,

yeah, soft talk. Challenge. Challenge accepted.

Challenge accepted. Yeah. Challenge extended to anyone

else out there as well. I think it's very powerful.

You know, when you first came over this morning, and I want to

get into what the last few weeks have been like for you,

but it's been so good to, you know, you came to the retreat,

it was within the last month, last three or four weeks, so pretty recent.

I got to catch up with you on a Southern California trip recently. And then

immediately when you showed up to the house, I was like, damn, Ryan

feels grounded. Ryan feels your rate of speech is even

slower. Like you feel more just grounded in your

body. And. And I got to spend

obviously a fair bit of time with you at the retreat. But before we dive

into that. So one, it's just beautiful to have you here and I'm grateful that

you made the trip from SoCal just to be here for this, really. And,

and yeah, I just love, love being around you. Our conversations with Lauren just

a few minutes ago and getting to drop in as a, as a family which

was hilarious too. But if you don't mind, I'd love to go into.

Because the way this happened. Please share with the listeners.

You had reached out to me a few times, I think, over the last

one to two years about different rites of

passages that are out there or different vision quest or

men's work, because I know this has been on your mind and on your heart

and a lot of that has been. And correct me if I'm wrong, not only

your genuine interest, but also some of the

challenges that you've experienced has led you to some of this

stuff. So if we take a step back, you know, two months ago, three

months ago, this last year, where did some of the interest

in diving even more deeply into. I think your words were

I want to learn or I want to really develop

more of my masculine core. And so

I'll let you take from there. Yeah, first of all, pleasure to be here. You

know, it's. Yeah, it's been really great spending more time with you and

Lauren and the retreat was fantastic. And we'll get on

to that. And I'm just sorry I couldn't bring the

sun with me. But

the reason I wanted to get into this is

because I was looking for really was a right of passage.

Having been someone who's

always, when I was younger, like one of the popular group and been into sports,

always been around a lot of alpha, Alpha men,

quote unquote, and been in those environments,

professional sport environments. And I've been around

a lot of men who

people you'd assume are. Was

the alpha in certain ways. But you scratch beneath the surface

there. There's a lot of runability, not

vulnerability, but just it's not.

How can I explain this? They're not

stable in who they are, if that makes sense. And so it's a lot of

it's provider. A lot of it is people, people who even you see on TV

shows, right, the main characters. Someone likes Tony Soprano, for example,

you know, he's the alpha dog, but anything that slightly throws him off, he just

loses his temper. And. And I've been going into that.

I've had a lot of stuff around anger and frustration, you

know, growing up and a lot of old programs around that.

I've been doing work in some respect

for the last 10 years during health, but the last two to three years I've

been diving more into really trying to

understand how to become more of that grounded

masculine presence. And the best way I can describe it

is true. Masculinity is like having a safety blanket

is like being a safety blanket with a sword. And you

have the sword and you can wield it when necessary.

And when you strike, you strike hard and you're very direct

with it. But you only do that when absolutely necessary.

The rest of the time, you are the safety blanket for everyone around

you. You can hold tension,

you are decisive and you speak truth, but you do it from

love. You're benevolent and you're generative and there's

no real masculine role

models that emphasize all those things, even

in society or even in films really. I've come across,

apparently, Lord of the Rings. There is, is a king in that who, who's

very much like the king archetype. And for me, the

character that I go to and I explain this is, is Mufasa in the Lion

King, right? Because most of the kings you see

are over the tyrant, where it's all about power and control.

And then you've got the weakling who, who's like Commodus in Delete

Gladiator, who's all about the conniving and trying to

manipulate because he hasn't got the, the right. So the, the, the tyrant can

confront people, but it's all about power and ego and being

destructive With a weakling won't confront people, but he'll do things behind

people's back. Whereas the real king will stand there in his energy. He'll

be direct, but he'll come from love. And he brings everyone up. But

he also has standards and he's not afraid to say what he, he

thinks and he's not afraid to speak truth. But he's very,

he's got a lot of his integrity, you know, intention

and where I've, I've been and been in, in

business and in relationships with a girl who called me her

in every, in every way. And I didn't really

understand what she was looking for from me because I'd never

dove into this, into this work. And it wasn't until,

you know, things got reasonably bad in our relationship because I was so

stressed out with, with work, trying to bring in certain amount of money,

trying to be everything to everyone else, trying to take care of everyone,

that I actually went through

like a massive, massive panic attacks. And

I realized my nervous system was very, very dysregulated. It had been for a long

time. And that made me dive into this work and understand well what's been

going on. And once I understood that my nervous system had been

addicted to chaos or set up for chaos, I started to understand

what the deeper issues were. And we never get a

root, we never get in today's society a rite of passage. That

is what many of the, our ancestors went

through, especially in the, in the Native American cultures as

well, where it's like boy to a man. And we have

things in our society like prom or, you know,

getting your driver's license or whatever it is, but there's

no real understanding of what the difference is between a boy

and a man. Most people you put

us in, the research shows that 90 or maybe 95

of people are actually, they never get above a 12 year old's consciousness.

So you've got all these quote unquote adults in adult

bodies that are actually just children. And it's why the world, world is the way

it is. You know, it's very reactionary.

So much, pardon me, so much ego. And

there's, there's no one actually being an adult. And

so one of the things I understood about rites of passage, it was almost

going through something as a boy that's so painful

either physically or mentally or emotionally

that you understand what it's like to be a man. And if you can

hold that and get through it, because, okay, you

now understand that what it is to be a man,

to have that responsibility and you've

walked through the fire or, you know,

whatever, whatever it may be. I know there's certain tribes that would take

the boy and let them get stung by a thousand

ants or, and just for the whole night they're in pain, but when they come

out the other side, it's like, okay, now you understand. And if you can understand

and get through that, then, you know, and

take on that role, responsibility of being a man. And so

that's just one aspect of it. And so I was, I was looking. Can I

ask you a question? Yeah. Because oftentimes

where boys learn with or

without the rite of passage, but where boys learn the imprint of

what it means to be a man or to have that modeled is the father.

You know, whether someone had a biological father in their life or

whoever played that role. And if they didn't, you know, there's usually some

type of gap in the developmental psychology of that boy. Can

I ask you, what did your father model to you

and what did you learn or not learn from your father about

what it means to be a man? It's

interesting. So my dad, in so many ways was,

was fantastic. He showed me to be a man to,

you know, work hard, to put family first,

to be useful and, and to not. He wasn't

someone who went out and who went out and just spent loads

of time away from his family, doing whatever he wanted. He was always someone that

was around. He took me to a lot of places. He gave me his time.

He gave me his time. But there was certain things in

terms of perfection that was expected and performance

looking a certain way, which made me always

question my worth unless I was performing. And so

I'd say there was some really good things. And then there was things that

probably left me not feeling safe in certain ways unless I performed and

so unless I. I won. And

there were probably certain instances where I. Yeah, where

he. He. This is the thing with. I always say it's about our parents, right.

They were doing the best job that they could and I have absolute compassion

for them because my dad's dad, both my mum and dad,

their. Their fathers were in World War II. Both of

them went and they come back different men. My. My dad's dad

was out in Japan. He saw his best friend get murdered and. And

tortured in front of his eyes. My mum's dad was out

in. In. He was Afghanistan, working on planes in the

heat for four years. Like, he never wanted to get anywhere hot. Afterwards.

He come back and he had issues of alcohol. And so,

you know, I know that they didn't get

the love and attention and all these things that. And so that feeling

of safety, I suppose complete security when

challenges come up was probably not

there. But in terms of being a man. Yeah, being useful,

being a family man, always giving your best, working hard,

were the things that he showed. Yeah, I

love hearing that, because there's a few things that you said that really hit home

for me. One, I love what you were bringing up around

getting curious about understanding our parents. Like, I

do believe that in part, what. What separates a man from a boy

is taking ownership and responsibility for the life that you're creating. Like,

you're a grown man, I'm a grown man.

This is not to blame our parents at all, but it is to

own our experience of the childhood that we had and how we

felt, how we experienced it. So it's not to blame them, but blaming our

parents, that's really putting ourselves in the victim mentality. So I think in

part it's taking ownership for the life that we have, because we do

have a choice, Right? We have a choice now and what we're going to do

with, you know, becoming and stepping into the men that we want to be.

But that second thing around really getting curious and

understanding, like, holy smokes. Like, my dad as well was

an Immigrant from Sicily, grew up in a farming town, has been working since he

was nine years old. Was the breadwinner for an entire family. At

nine years old, he was running my grandparents a grocery store. 9 years old

running a grocery store, like at 9? Are you serious today?

So I have. And the amount of challenges and struggles and, you know,

he wasn't perfect either, but he definitely did lay down some

solid bricks for me. But this is how spiritual work

is. It's. I really do believe that my work

as a man picks off where my dad's left and his

work as a man picks off where his father left off. And

that's what it is. Like, Luca's work will pick up where mine

ends. And so instead of. This is something even

fairly new for me. Instead of looking so much back, like, I do think

it's important to understand our history and where we came from and the

inherited patterns generationally that were passed down. I think that's super

important. And even more now than ever,

I'm actually looking six, seven generations forward.

I'm looking for what's the imprint that I'm leaving right now with how I'm

being, how I'm serving, how I'm living, how I'm parenting,

and what's the impact it going to be on not just Luca, but his

kids and his kids kids. So I think it's important to

see what role our parents played or didn't play, because it's just

good to have an understanding of that soup or whatever the

ingredients that went into us early on. But after a certain point,

we've got to actually take responsibility. And that's where rites

of passages that we today, like what you're saying, we have to

choose. We have to create for ourselves because

the societal structure just doesn't have that built in anymore, at least

in the West. Right. So keep going. Yeah, yeah. No,

no. And that's so, so powerful because I think a lot of people

get caught in that victim mentality or blaming. It's like, no, like,

they gave me a great foundation. There was areas where they. They

could have done better, but they didn't. They didn't have any of this work. They

didn't know about any of this. So they did fantastic,

you know, doing the best they could. And they. No one even talked

about this stuff, you know, back then. And. And so we're in a different

generation and it's up to us. And so we've got the tools and now we

can use them. And so my thing is I want to be the best

man example I can be. And then, as you said, when I have

children, pass it down. So, like, so much

reverence and thanks for what they've done. And now it's up to me to. To

take it further, you know, and so that's why I

was looking for it, because there's certain areas, like my mom and dad

are reasonably defensive about certain things. Right. And I look

at that. That's not king behavior. When I say king is, you know, like

today's world. Oh, she's a queen, he's a king. And it's cringe.

That's not what we're. We're talking about here. We're talking about embodying the energy of

a king. Great book out there. King, Warrior, Lover, Magician. One of the best

books I've read around this, the Four Archetypes for Men. But that king

energy is just someone who's, you know, he doesn't.

He knows who he is. He doesn't get drawn into nonsense. He's not

reactive as responses. He's intentional

of his with his thoughts, but with his language.

And so, you know, when you have anger or

frustration or when you think that you're being judged,

it's interesting when it's coming from people that rather be defensive when you get

criticism, which when my girlfriend used to do this to me, I used to be

defensive. Oh, but can't you see how hard I'm working while I'm trying to do

all these things? She was saying that to call me higher.

She wasn't saying it to belittle me or put me down

one. I know they're women like that. I know they're men like that.

She wasn't one of them, you know, and you know where it's coming from. So,

for example, if you said to me, Ryan, something. Something that, you know, you're out

of integrity here or you're out of alignment here, like, cool, because I know

you've got my best intentions at heart. Right. And so that's where I've developed.

Okay, Mike's saying this to me because it takes a lot to say it to

someone. It's easy not to say it and just to carry on and wipe it

under, put it under the rug. People have used. Have massive, like massive rails in

the house, for example. And then it would be like sudden treatment

or not saying anything and then just leaving it, wiping under

the. Mupping under the rug, whatever you want to say, and then pretending like it

didn't happen, rather than being like, right, this happened. How can we stop this? From

not happening again. And my ex girlfriend was one of the most emotionally

intelligent people. And when I actually understood, I understand now, she

was calling me higher. She was doing these things so that we wouldn't

have these arguments in the future so that I

would be. She could see my potential. Because I

look at now, I'm like, it makes me like emotional like she see my

potential. And I wasn't reaching it because I was stuck in old patterns and

programs. And that's one of the things I was like, okay, how do I burn

away all the things that aren't serving me and how do

I continue to develop the things that are or add things that are.

And so write a passage. You know, I've done a lot of hard things in

my life with sport and being those environments.

But for me the most like the physical

things on this we did a sweat lodge which was super physical and that was

intense, which we'll go into. But for me the hard things

was is the vulnerability or. And

I heard something and it stuck with me. Which is the amount of growth

that you'll get is. Is how much truth you can hear about yourself and not

run away. And I was like, okay. And so a lot of this work

has been. It's the physical, it's the mental, the emotional. And that's what I was

looking for in terms of connecting all these things and why I reached out to

you is because I know you've been doing this. You're think two or

three years down, further down the line than I am.

And I wanted something, whether it be a sacred

hunt or a vision quest or you know,

sweat lodge and everything else we did to symbolize me

going through that journey and to also confront the

things that are. Are scary for me. And so for me, like the

things that the work work that we did, some of the scariest things for me

was actually like the breath releasing that during the breath work or

the somatic. Somatic breath work which we can go into.

And also just some of the speaking

to people, looking their eyes and just talking about my fears or if

you. If you know me, if you really know me. And then. And just

yeah being super vulnerable with people, which I'm constantly

doing now because I realize it's strength and

yeah. And so there's many aspects to it. But that's what I was. I was

looking for and to continue this. And so you had to

burn away the programs and the patterns that have not been serving me and. And

to step into that and yeah, because

as a man, but as A business owner, etc, it's,

it's something that if we don't, Carl Jung says something like

paraphrasing this, but unless we make this the subconscious conscious,

we'll just go through life and thinking these things of fate when in fact

it's our old programs and patterns that are coming up. And, and

so yeah, it's a full time job doing the work, but you

know, who wouldn't have it any other way? And so yeah, did that

answer. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's even more powerful

coming from you because you've been,

we're talking more deeper men's self development stuff

right now. But you've been doing work on yourself for

20 plus years, conscious work in terms of vitality,

nutrition, taking care of yourself, right? About 16 years,

yeah. So yeah, I mean, long time. And

so one of the things that you and I agree eye to eye on, which

is also why I'm excited to have you on the show today, is because so

much of your life has been around vitality

and detoxification and nutrition

and all the things that we know it takes to

be a vital man. In fact, my last men's

group was called the Vital Man Collective. Now it's the

grounded King as it's representative, also where my heart is and where my

curiosity is and where my path is as I'm learning these things more

deeply. But the reason why I had called the last group the Vital Man

Collective is because in the men's work largely that I had

experienced, which there's some phenomenal teachers out there,

like phenomenal teachers a lot around nervous system

regulation, how to bring vulnerability in

healthy ways, how to bring vulnerability into intimate

relationships, how to lead our intimate relationships,

emotional intelligence, grounding, centering all these great

embodied principles. And yet

one of the biggest missing elements that I was seeing is

largely they've forgotten the vitality piece. And

sustaining the change process is hard. It

requires energy, requires discipline. And

to sustain any form of change, a new pattern,

etc, it's going to require life force. And so what I was

finding even within myself at times, I'm a new father. I don't

say new father. He's almost three now. But I still feel like I'm a new

father. Like it takes energy. And so if

myself, you or men out there are not taking care of themselves,

not nourishing themselves, it's going to be so

much harder. Like when do the patterns show up? Usually they show

up when we're fatigued, when we're tired, when we're in a fear State.

And so if we're not even supplying ourselves

with the base foundation of what it is to be a healthy

man, that's been one of the biggest things of

why I see men going back into pattern. That and then not having the community,

when they return back from, like a retreat, for example, they

go back into their same patterns, the same relationships, the same

job that they hate to say all of that. It's the same environment,

which is a form of communities, a form of, let's say, nourishment.

But that's also why I appreciate that you

one came to the retreat and also have dove in so deeply into this

work because you've

worked on so much of the vitality piece and now you add

in some of this nervous system regulation and what

we're talking about right now, it's like, that's a powerful combination. So

I'd love for you to share more on that in terms of the

role of vitality in this work and where you see those

two complementing each other. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's one of the reasons

also I chose to speak to you and then to work with

you. Right. Because. So there's loads of people out there doing

this work. There's loads of people that are health

coaches, but they, they miss this aspect. Or there's people that

are doing the nervous system work, but they're not healthy. They don't

look healthy. They don't, you know, you look at their physique and, and just

their energy. There's. There's not many people that are

walking the walk in all aspects. And as I said to you, it's why I

was wanting to come and work with you, because you're,

you're like hitting that. You're hitting all areas.

And it's where I want to be. As I mentioned before when we spoke, it's

like Idol portal talks about being the best generalist. Everyone tries to

specialize. But as you know, Paul says, when you,

when you specialists know more and more about less and less, until I know absolutely

everything about nothing. Right. And so. And so that's good.

Yeah. So when you look at someone who's, it's easy

to just be like, arm specialist in this area, but all the other areas of

my life are completely, you know, shot to pieces. It's like,

no, but I want to, I'm. I want to be in good health. I want

to be in good shape. I want to be a masculine presence. I want to

have regulated nervous system. But I'm also an entrepreneur. I'm also like the leading man

of my company. I know you are as well. So it's that heavy weighs the

crown and so I want to. I said before, you don't follow the man,

he's got the map. You follow the man who's walked the path. And so that's

why it was I wanted to because I also. I know you're going to trust

you and there's loads of people out there that you scratch me the surface and

they aren't who they say they are, whereas I know you are. And

I always want to be around people that are full of integrity and also

they're going to call me higher. And so yeah, it's super important.

And you know, I've been doing a lot of mental and emotional work

and breath work and every day I'd go for walks in

nature, I was exercising intelligently, I was eating organic food,

sauna, doing all the things you can imagine, taking essential supplements, everything.

But I had these massive pack attacks because fundamentally

my underlying energy was gotta do this, gotta do this, gotta do this. Got

so many things to do. Tick the box. Just stress.

And it got to the point where they say, God whispers and if you don't

listen, he shouts. I thought it was a heart attack when it happened. It

was that bad. And I didn't realize panic attacks could mimic heart attacks.

I actually got blue lighted to the hospital and I had two

stents fitted. No. Yeah, they went up my arm when I was

away. They put it out there because they saw a narrowing of an archery which

we now know that was 99.

It was always like that. But they go in, they see. And because

all my blood work was perfect. All my. Yeah,

blood work was perfect. Everything was perfect. Like resting heart rate of Olympic athlete and

everything like that. And so it took some time. Wow.

Realized. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was intense.

Yeah, that was an intense. And so I was like, well, I'm doing

all this stuff. But I've had. Because it happened again in

Italy afterwards when I was on holiday

and when I went there, they had all the blood

tests again. They were like drinks. Do you know this could be a severe panic

attack. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that. And I looked into it,

I realized they can mimic heart attacks. And

when they start to come on after that I would deep in

how and again breathe through it and it

would start to disappear. And it was, I was like, okay, I need to go

deeper into this nervous system work. Because even as they said, if you hadn't been

as healthy as you Are it could have been lot worse. Right. And so

this why it's super important to embody all this.

Because if you're missing in any area. So we're a

holistic being. Right. And so there's nutritional side of things,

the mental, the emotional, but the spiritual, the energetic.

And I thought that I was covering all this and I didn't realize that I

actually had to go deeper into this. And that was a fundamental thing because I

could be doing all these things if my fundamental energy is I'm

not enough. I have low self worth. I'll only be

worthy when I'm making this much money. Another thing, I lost

like hundreds of thousands of pounds of investments. Right. So my identity went

down. Yeah. So I've been up there, I've gone down.

So I was like, okay, but if I only think that I'm enough when I've

got that, then that's the energy I'm coming through and I'm always chasing.

And so that was when I understood also

that because my nervous system was so chaotic, addicted to

chaos back then, that I couldn't hold having

that much money. Right. And so I'd find a way to

sabotage it. Explain that more. I'm right there with

you. I want you just to go deeper with that because that's important. Because if

your nervous system is always out for chaos rather than peace,

you will seek out chaos. So peace

feels. Oh, that's weird. It's like there's nothing to worry

about. That's strange. I better go and find something that,

that causes drama or stress. If you've never had

a lot of money and you suddenly get some, it's why all these millionaires will

win the lottery five years later. They're all

skin. We say skin in the uk, they're all rassic. They got no money left,

basically because they, they don't know how to

be wealthy, first of all, haven't got no probably financial intelligence. But

also energetically, they feel

like it's safer to be poor than it is

to be rich. Especially with that comes, you know, oh,

you can go certain places that other people, you know, can't. People look at you

differently and if you yourself don't feel

like you deserve it, you're not enough. You'll find ways to get rid of it

so you can go back to what feels safe. And

yeah. And so I was like, okay, sucked.

And it's been three years of like doing this work.

My friend went through it as well and it was like, okay, if I'd have

kept that Money, the person I'd have been, would have been different to who I

am now. So it's the journey I had to go through. So when it comes

back, because I know it will, I'll be able to hold it. And I

realized that that doesn't make me who I am. But also

I. I know that I am enough. And it's not the money or the

whatever, the status that makes me who I am. It's me.

And they're just what happens when I'm. Me fully

to come to that realization. What does that feel like?

So pressure, weight getting released off your shoulder

is just a different energy to live with if. If that's the best way I

can describe it. Psycho. Okay.

And so this was. Yeah, and this is

where there's so many things that go into the stories we tell ourselves. Right. And,

and this is a constant for me. I'm constantly

being very, very aware of the language I use,

who I'm around, how I dress, how I eat, all

these things. Moving in a way that

King would, and building that self worth and that self value and

understanding. It's me and not the things I have that

are valuable and I'm worthy of these things. And so,

and that also comes, as you mentioned before, bringing it all around into, into health.

Because I see a lot of people on this, on these journeys and

there's probably a fame, you know, this famous quote, you know, man sacrifices

his health to make money, then he spends all the money to get his health

back. And when it comes to this, I see so many people

on the journey of health and they don't understand this. And so

that's where they have to end up doing the work or the people that are

doing this work. But then they neglect their health. And

unfortunately, you know, another quote

I love is when a man has his health, he has a million dreams.

When he doesn't, he just has one. And that is, you know, to get healthy.

And so also if you're not healthy,

I've got like a 14 day nervous system reset that I give my

guys and we go deeper after that. But one of the first things I talk

about is you need to get your vessel healthy. Because if your vessel isn't

healthy, your body is always going to be in a state of survival, always going

to be in a state of stress, always going to be in fight and flight,

inflamed. And from that state, when you're inflamed,

your body, you're in your limbic system. And so

you're acting from survival, you're acting from reacting rather than

from responding or from your true self. You're doing, you're in

survival mode. And so that means you'll make decisions or you'll put

yourself in situations that aren't

conducive to your actual dreams and goals. They're just, you're in

survival mode. So you'll do anything. It's like when you see an athlete, someone

will tackle them badly on the pitch and then they'll lose their head and they'll,

they'll react and someone says, oh, he was out of his mind. He literally was

at that time out of his mind or she was out of their mind. They're

in survival mode. And if you're in that all the time, what do you think

that your, your actions are going to be? Right? And so

understanding that getting your vessel healthy and then people just

loaded with other things like chemicals and heavy metals and cut health off

and they're. Yeah, I mean they're just walking around

two or three stone over overweight, you know, and,

and it just means that then they were going to be able to, to hold

the energy that they could and make decisions from their higher

self because

they're energetically out of alignment

with what they're trying to do. And so you can take people that get great

success but, but it will either be short

lasting success in terms of finance, but you know, I always talk

about this as well. Is it, is it success if you've got all the money

in the world but you, your, your, your family life shot to pieces, you know,

your relationship's done, you don't have a relationship with your children, so

that's not really a success. It's financial success. But you can see people

that get a lot of money and it will somehow they'll

lose it because, because of these things. And so it's

important to encompass it all. Well what, what that brings

up. And we spend a lot of time some speaking about it,

but more demonstrating it at the retreat and in all the

work from the men's group the ground and king to other stuff. And

it's the container, right? The container like what we're talking

about. The more that you're in an alignment, you're also the more that you're in

integrity. Integrity is one of the, the

key masculine principles or frameworks.

So something that has integrity, it has the ability

to hold more exactly what you're saying. But if we have a bunch

of holes in our physical integrity, in the

integrity of our heart, in the integrity of our soul, in the integrity of our

word. We're not going to be able to hold as much. Not

going to be able to hold as much of our own feeling, sensing,

emoting, and definitely not nearly able to hold that in our

feminine partners or if we're a leader of our company,

we'll have a lot of these holes. So the goal for me is not around

perfection, but to understand, really do an honest,

legit inventory of these things. And

what are the conversations that we need to have that we've been avoiding? For

example, where are all these micro holes?

Because not only do they leak, but they also pull our attention

and our awareness. So we're never going to be really present. I mean, we've talked

about, about. You've shared beautifully about the energy of a generative

king. And one of the

most important things in terms of what I believe when a

man is felt in that energy is he's present. I can look

at you and not just look at you, but I can feel you're just solid

with where you're sitting. And so if we have all of these

micro holes and we don't even. We're not even aware that we've got all these

leaks, it's going to pull our attention, pull our awareness. I may be

here physically with you, but actually my. My consciousness or

what I'm thinking about, oh my God, what am I doing after this? Am I

going to this. Do I have this client to get to? It's like, no. When

you're here with me, as much as possible, you're fully here with you, and I'm

fully here with you. And I get that mirrored back. I mean, in all

relationships, but especially with my son, because he. He knows

when papa's there, but not there. And it even hits harder because

that's a really painful reflection or a mirror back to me because

I really understand that all he really wants is my presence.

So if we're laying down and I've got my phone on because I'm

checking something, he can sense it, whether he says it or not. And I've seen

his behavior change so much when I'm not present with

him. But I'm bringing this back because again, it's not about

being perfect, but I do believe it's about being honest with where those

leaks and then making a gesture towards.

Making a gesture towards cleaning these things up, being in more

integrity. And so the container that we create

is really what allows ideally more trust, more

safety, more depth, more openness, more transformation at this work.

And so, and the vitality piece is one of those things, which is

why I'm super big on the food that's made there. And Lauren

cooking all the food my wife made from was so much love, so much

intentionality from scratch, you know, know the water that they're drinking,

all the products that we use. But I would love to hear, you know, when

you reflect back on that experience. Was there.

I know there was so many. What do we. What did Greg say, one of

the facilitators? That it's a bunch of smaller ceremonies

and a larger ceremony, but is there one moment or one

exercise or activity, and we can go through a small handful of them. But I'd

love to see what. What was a moment that took you to that place

where, you know, if we want to say a rite of passage. Because in terms,

to have a rite of passage, at least how I understand it, with people I've

talked to and my mentor, Ted Rider, there needs to be

some degree of, you said, burning away. There needs to be some

degree of a death, a death to a part of ourselves.

And almost as if there's a point of no going back.

Once you come through and experience the version of yourself or the layers of

yourself, you've burned so much of that away that there's no

choice to go back to the former version. So I'm

just curious what moment or moments stick out

in your experience where you got to meet that part of

you and still walk the next step forward.

Interesting. Before I answer that, I just want to

say the presence thing is massive, Huge. And that was

something that I didn't realize until I had my

girlfriend as well. Not being present, being there, but not being there.

And now, like, I'm so present all the time when I'm with

people, the phone is. No, they're not there because that can just pull

people away. And I think I know

that it's something people struggle with because of the world

we're in. But if you get intentional with it, it's. It's so

important when you are present and when you are fully in what you're doing. That's

another thing with the nervous system stuff. One thing at a time, rather than

multiple things all over, one thing at a time. It's a game changer. Like

multitasking yourself. Yeah. Single point focus. Yeah.

Multitasking is. Actually eats. We can go deeper into it.

I want to go deeper into the vessel again, but we'll do that in a

minute. And multitasking, it

fries the nervous system. It eats for your reserves. And

you now actually get Anything done? Well, this research

shows this, that when you're doing two things at once, nothing gets done well.

Things get missed, overlooked, because when you're there and you're fully on it,

you do that, then you move to the next thing. And yeah,

presence as well, when you're talking to someone, looking in the eye, not being able

to look someone in the eye is also a sign of dysregulated nervous system. Not

being seen, not wanting to be seen. But

yeah, to answer your question, around. Around the retreat.

So there were, yeah, many ceremonies within

a ceremony. And I know for me, I should say nothing.

For me, the, the breath work, the somatic

breath work, the release that we had, the energy of, that was

powerful because that was

opening up like that, everyone fully committed. And I've done breath work

before and I've been in groups, but this was something where every man was in

100. And it allowed everyone to

fully release and to go through that process.

And that felt like a death in terms

of I'd never been able to just do that

and still comfortable

doing that because I'd always be

worrying about how I was perceived or what was going on or judgment. And

I felt absolutely no judgment there whatsoever. In fact, it was a complete opposite.

And that allowed me to understand that

I can be that vulnerable and to go through it and

everything's going to be okay. And on that, like

one of the guys, when we were around the fire pit, you know, breaking down,

crying in front of other men, I was like, that's brave and

that's powerful because, you

know, for me, probably like you, you know, playing sport, pushing myself,

going in the ring, fighting someone, whatever it may be, doing

more, that's easy, but. But doing

it was easy to understand. It was like, I've done that and so I know

what it's like. But being vulnerable, doing less,

opening up, that's

the change for me. And so

that was one of those things that I know that I

know. And the other thing was the sweat notch and also

being disconnected from the

astral world or the, the phone for that amount of time.

And that really allowed me to understand how much I need that time.

I just felt very centered the whole time I was there. And

obviously with work and things I do a lot online, like yourself. And so

I can be in that space and it can pull me off center a little

bit. And so being there was okay. This is something that I

now know moving forward is something that I will be doing every

few months, just three to three days in the woods.

But yeah. There's no coming back from that sweat lodge either. Before we get into

that, I want to just go back for a moment on the breath work. Okay.

What was the story that you said you never like it's been

a challenge for you to go there. And what I understood as you kept sharing

was it was a challenge for you to go into that level of

vulnerability and, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so

course correct me, but to surrender or to let go or to allow

yourself to go there. What was the story

either then or before then? Historically, if I'm vulnerable or

if I show these parts of me,

what was the story then? It means what? I'm weak then I'm weak.

Yeah. I'm vulnerable. I'm weak.

Yeah. That, that. Yeah. I'm embarrassing.

Yeah. People can use it against you.

Yeah. And use that vulnerability and. Yeah. Turn it right back. That lands.

Okay. Okay. The other thing that. And let me know if this is true. This

is one of the things that came up too in the retreat is. And

not just in the retreat, but in most myself and even one on one clients,

like many of us men, want to be in control. Right. And so to be

an experience like that where I mean it is a tight

container and there's some degree of structure which creates the

freedom to go into emotional expressions from

anger, sadness, grief, what it laughing, shaking, crying, whatever

the expression is. But it does require a

certain degree of letting go of control.

And in all the breathwork ceremonies. That's why I absolutely

love that style of breath work when

it's used in that way and in that type of container.

Because one, it's very rare. Like where else do we

get that opportunity as men or as people to go to a place where

can all of you is welcome. And I'm not even just saying it,

it's just how it's felt. Right.

Didn't tell anybody to have. There's no telling anybody. It's just

this. You have the freedom. You're in the driver's seat. If you want to go

into some stuff, you'll have the space to do that and we'll

support you in any capacity that we can. But to go into

a room where there's 16 guys or 15 guys,

you said the words, laying it all out, letting themselves

feel things that maybe they've never let them feel

that even. What is it like to feel powerful

like when you have all that breath? That is the medicine. There's no psychedelic

nothing. You are the medicine. When you've got all that energy

coursing through you. Can you

even allow yourself? Can I. Can we allow ourselves to even. What does it mean?

Like, how. What would it feel like

to truly feel good, vital and

powerful in my body? You know, we talked also, on a related but

separate note, I'll ask guys like, hey, practice projecting

your voice. There's so many ways that we play small.

Yeah. So the breath work can be a great

nudge. And you're in the driver's seat, so there's no pressure to go anywhere you

don't want. But if you do want to meet that party, if you do want

to go, not only is it super welcome, but you've

got 15ish other guys there. I forget you know the

exact words you said, but leaving it all out and,

and facilitating that for me, it's just so goddamn

inspiring. Like, wow,

that just touches a part of me and it's, it's really unique

energy to be in. Yeah.

We don't get to any of this. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? It's like. Yeah, I feel you. Like, they

don't teach us about any of the valuable stuff. We go and we learn about

Pythagoras theorem that we never learn, never use ever again.

No one teaches you about finances around the business. And no one teaches you about

the mentor, the emotional work, anger, release. Like

how many men walk around there, they're just super angry and they never release it.

And it comes out like someone does something. The guy that

cuts you up and he's giving you the middle finger. It's something to do with

you. It's like something's happened before in his life

and it just comes out or. And so

it's, it's. These are things that men need, like,

massively community to speak about this, like around the fire pit.

Just. I said if you had that every day, there'd be no problems.

Men would just get around, talk about things, have that community where they could all

help each other out. Saying comes up, you speak, you leave it

out, and then if anyone wants suggestions, they can give you

them. Otherwise, it's just allowing that to come out, be heard,

but then having tools to use that. Yeah. To let that energy out.

Because so many men carry anger, frustration, shame, guilt,

and it never gets released and it's bottled up and that's a deep, dark

energy to hold. And then it does come out in

ways it's repressed or suppressed.

Yeah. It's very, very powerful to be

with other men as well. And you mentioned that you've had Other. Other

groups. All your groups have been fantastic. But you've had other groups. It may be

one or two were a bit more reserved or

maybe took a bit of a joking attitude towards certain. Certain things.

And just that one person being off meant the energy of the container

was slightly. Not as as high as where it could have been.

Whereas I've like everyone in this containers from my. Well, I

know it was incredible, the energy in the room.

Right. And that's like the power of men coming together and

actually being vulnerable and open and sharing. Because it's the same as anything. You

know, you're in a team sport, it takes one person to just not buy fully

in. And it means that the container doesn't hold the same amount of

energy. Yeah. And having that trust in the container,

but also in the teacher. So I think the teacher is actually part of the

voice, massively part of the container. Right. Because if you trust the

teacher, then you're willing to go to places that you maybe wouldn't go off

otherwise. Because when you trust them and

two, they trust you and

they're coming from a place of. You know. So

I said before, when you've done done it yourself, you've been there. So I said,

you know, for the man with the map, you follow the man who's walking the

mountain, because things come up, you've been there, you've done it.

You know what happens? Same with me, like, the coaching that I do,

you know, if. If people go through things

or they say, for example, they're doing a deep detoxification or they're in different parts

of whatever we're doing, if something happens, Ryan, this has happened, no

problem, we do this, or that's cool. That's

meant to happen, you know, rather than being like, oh, no,

what do I do? Scrambling, you know, and so having that container.

Yeah. Is super important. And that was. Yeah, it

was a spiritual experience, really. And trying to release

that and because I probably only ever done

released in that way maybe once before, but even probably not as much as that,

that was like completely releasing. So, yeah,

scheduling that in when things happen to actually release

that energy is, I think, I know, powerful.

What do you think it did for you now after the retreat? What is

you shared in the beginning about, like,

feeling like, lighter, like you took some weights off?

I don't recall if that was related to the breath work or not, but what

do you think you're taking home from that experience that

you've carried with. You now that it's all right

to. To let go, to Release to surrender,

to go into areas where you feel vulnerable, and

you're going to be set, you're fine, you're going to be safe.

And that if I don't make time to do these

things, then you're going to keep on getting the same

results that you've had before. And so

being. What's like when you talk about. You get a negative thought, no,

I catch that. I put it in the bin, or I don't do that anymore

when I feel like I've got anger or frustration in me,

allowing me to go in and do an angle release.

Because if you don't, then you're just gonna keep on getting the

same results. And so it does mean changing how

you see yourself. Your identity is everything. Right? So it changes

my beliefs, which changes my identity, and that

allows for different actions because it all comes down to that. All the things we

talk about at the end of the day, when your identity is

of someone who does these things, everything else

follows. And you do them because, you know, you feel safe, but they get

the results you want. And that's the person you. You are. Ultimately,

you eat organic food, because that's who I am. I always say, you don't do

healthy things. Become a healthy person, mentally, emotionally, you become a healthy person, and

the healthy things come naturally. And it's the same with

this. Okay. I now know that

when I've got angle, frustration, shame, or guilt in me,

then I can do these things. And it's something that they've got tools to take

away, But I've also got the

understanding of how powerful it is when. When I

commit to that. I love that man. I mean, one of

the big things that I'm so

passionate about is as much as possible,

giving guys at these experiences tools that they can take home

with them. Because the name of the game is the integration

piece. Yeah, that's one of the hardest things. Right. So

what are some of the tools that I know We'll. We'll talk also briefly

about the sweat lodge. I don't want to miss that, but I also really want

to make sure that we hit. Let's go into sweat lodge next, and then we'll

wrap up with. With really leaving people with the tool

or the tools that you are taking home with you.

Yeah. So we do. We can do. Yeah, we can do

the. The tool just while you're on it. Just so I remember where we were,

where we were going with it. There was many things. There

was the. The meditations that we did as well, the

seated ones. The seated ones. But it was really

understanding. It was fee, Phil, see here.

And sitting with them,

allowing to you to feel energy

and just to process it and understand it and be

with it. So it sort of comes back into that. Right, because

when you feel things, a lot of times you feel a feeling that isn't

fun. Anxiety, the loneliness,

you know, shame, guilt, whatever it is, you want to run away

from it rather than going, okay, that's there.

Let me just recognize it, let me, Let me be with it,

let me name it. And then we can transmute it.

So that was one of the tools. We did it in a meditation, but I

took that with me with. In everyday life as

well. So that was something that we. That we used.

Yeah, the. So the. The somatic breath work we did

as well, which allowed us to release. And I get a lot of tension in

my solar plexus. So that was very powerful. And

I now, now know that if I feel like I've got

anger or frustration or any things in me I need to release, I can go

somewhere, whether it be in the car, it would be in my.

My room or somewhere, and I can release that through breath work and then through,

you know, vocalizing it. It may mean I have put a pillow or

something in my mouth or whatever to. To release that,

but it's something that allows my, my energy

to clear. And then the stories. Very

powerful story work we did. Ultimately, we've carry

on these stories with us that aren't true, or

maybe the opposite is true. But when they're in our head and they're going

quickly, you can go into a state of anxiety or

it can be stress rather than. So when we went through the stories, it was

writing them down, was putting them on paper, you

know, takes them out of your head. It makes. It gets the energy out of

your head of just cycling and puts it on paper so it's like right in

front of you. Then it was reading through it,

reading through it slower and then reading through it and taking

a breath after each sentence. And it just takes the energy out

of that. And so it was really interesting doing that.

That. Because I know I've got stories in my head now. I would do that.

And it just. Yeah, it literally

allows you to see things from a different perspective as well. Some of the things

you've gone around in your head that you've been like,

making bigger than what they are, you see them on paper and you're like, oh,

that's actually. It actually allows you to. To even see that

that's not even about you, it's about someone else or what they did. And you're

carrying this and it's not even about you. So I'm trying to think. There

was, there was the qigong I did with Johnny. I've done tai chi and

qigong before, but I took home that practice building energy.

It's a nice tool to, to start my day with and just build the

internal life force because people don't understand. A lot of people don't know.

But you know, chi life force prana, they've been

doing this in the, in, in the Middle east or

Middle east in the Eastern philosophies for thousands of years. And that's

about bringing, bringing your, your life force up,

working out. You know, it feels great. You release endorphins, but you take, you use

energy. Whereas working in is about cultivating energy and it

allows you to be more grounded, more centered. So I've done

that myself before. It was nice to have a different practice from Johnny.

And I mean, the archetypes were another thing we can go into. There's. There was

a lot that, that we did that was, was fantastic. The archetype work with Greg

was, was, yeah, was eye opening. Was

phenomenal. Doing the archetype will got my,

my cards on my desk and my highest potential go out of that

tomorrow actually and into 11th house.

I can't remember exactly what that is, but I go from hero to martyr.

I've got. Where is it? I've got mine. But yeah, we're in the month of

the 11th. Yeah. And for those, for just for context, the archetype wheel,

Greg Schmals, who's. He's coming back. He's facilitated

two retreats alongside me and Dr. Johnny. He'll be coming back

in May. And we've done multiple podcasts, but we did an entire

one. I'll put it in the show notes, but we did one entirely on the

wheel, and that's a phenomenal one. If people want to understand the

language of archetypes, which is really the language of the psyche

and it's not personal. So oftentimes, for example,

the king, warrior, magician, lover, those are archetypes. And so

it's just gives us a more impersonal way

to interact with these parts of ourselves. But just to recap,

I want to make sure. So the meditation technique, which for

anybody interested I was guiding, it's a very simple

process. And the simplicity of the tools, from the story

work to the meditation, that's what I feel is so powerful,

is just practicing the Goddamn fundamentals

consistently every day. And. And so the meditation was around

see here, feel. And it's really to develop three qualities.

Concentration. So the ability to focus more on what it is that you want and

less on what you don't want in your life. Clarity.

So to pick up details and nuances in your

experience, to see more of what is already there. I mean, I've had this experience

multiple times when I've walked out of the house, which I've

walked out of this house thousands of times. And then one day I'm

like, oh, my God, I never, ever saw that beautiful plant

right outside the door. That's always been there because I've been on

such a routine to get out, get to the car, go, execute. Go,

win. Go do this. So to pick up more of what's

in our environment, in our relationships, more of what's inside of us.

And then the third skill. And these are skills I'm really big on training.

So the physical part of me and the physical part of you, I really

have brought that into this work. And to train,

you can call it equanimity or balance. So to be less pulled

into, less getting lost in the sauce, or

to approach more things, whether it's the pleasant things, the unpleasant things,

or the neutral things, with more of a calm matter of

factness. So the technique of see here, feel, you break

apart your experience into. And there's many

variations of this. I'm keeping it just for the sake of conversation.

You could take anything. So if we did

see, see in, feel in, here, in. And we

did individual meditation, we broke it all down. So it's

not too confusing, but so feel in, which is what

you were talking about. So you can close your eyes, and then you

sit. Nasal breathing, ideally. And

when you notice an emotion, so an emotional sensation

in the body, you just label it internally with the word feel.

And then you focus on it. It's a technique called noting. You focus on it

intently for a few seconds, and that builds concentration. And then

after a few seconds, you allow your attention to be naturally pulled to another

feeling. And as soon as you notice that, you

focus on, you acknowledge it. Then you dive into it intently,

picking up details, nuances, where is it, how intense, what's the

texture of it? You focus on that for a few seconds,

and basically you continue that process. But if you don't notice

any feeling, you say the word rest, and you focus on what does

it feel like to be in a state of peace? Now, I'm simplifying it, but

if someone just sat for 10 minutes, which for me is the minimum

duration of an official practice. And wanted to

focus on that quality and whatever else, whether in that

situation, if we had mental chatter or noises outside

or we had visions in our, you know, images that would pop up in

our head, all of those in the context of this meditation,

feel in only would be a distraction. So

that's where it takes concentration and whatever the distraction is training

our body to let it pass or if we do get pulled

into it, to bring it back. So the

meditation technique, the story works are looking at the stories. We actually

did that one right before breath work, which I love doing that to. To

move it does. Can create a bunch of

emotions and move stuff. Then we take it into the breath work.

You said the qigong. So a moving meditation. So just wanted to

anchor those to recap some of the big tools that landed for you. Yeah,

yeah, they were. Yeah, they were powerful.

All of it really. You know, and just I look through

my book, I'm on my notes most mornings

and just, you know, looking. Oh, wow. Yeah. And see what come up. And then.

Yeah, the archetype work. And then obviously the big things being being

on Tim's land and the sweat lodge, which was. Yeah, I

said before I've done saunas. And I was like, yeah, this, this.

I didn't. I was sitting next to you at

the. At the. That's right. Which was actually quite. It was. It

was very symbolic for me because I was obviously there

with yourself to go for a rite of passage. And. Yeah,

that was a rite of passage. For people that haven't experienced a sweat lodge before,

intense would be a word, life changing,

but definitely something that as a man,

I think definitely people

benefit from and experience like that to understand what you can

tolerate because, you know, people that haven't.

Haven't had a sweat lodge before. I don't know if you spoke about it on

your podcast before, but you know that when they

bring in the stones that are heated up for four hours, four or five hours

before they come into the sweat lodge, which is a hole in the middle of

the ground. And when they come in, they're searing hot. They're red hot. You can

see at the heat on them. And usually only bringing six stones per.

Per round. That's what Tim said. But for us, he bought in eight because it

was a rite of passage and he knew that it was going to be

like a pivotal moment for a lot of people. This is what he said. I

don't know if this is. This is always the Case, but

every round. So he has, when we were in there, locked in

four songs, then he opens and asks for more stones and

we bring in more and it's, it's a very powerful ceremony. Like he's singing the

songs. We're all chanting as well. We welcome the stones in. He puts his

steam on the stones and you know, when it first come in the first round,

I was like, okay, this is all right. I can deal with this. I was

like, okay, the, the, the, the,

the door went open. He brought in the next stones and we all chanted.

By the end of the second round, I was like, this is intense.

This is, I was like, okay, we've got two more rounds of this. This is,

this is going to be interesting. We actually got the opportunity

to go out and have a, have a quick dip in the, in the water

in between. And as I said, which is cold, cold. And as I

said, in the fire pit, you know, I don't think if the first person hadn't

have left, none of us else would have got stupid like that. We've

been like, he's not getting out. I'm not getting out in the break. Cuz yeah,

the second round he runs his where he actually allows people to go take a

dip for really quick. Then you got to come right back in. Yeah. And then

the, the third and fourth rounds,

they're the championship rounds. They're the

championship rounds. Cuz before that we were all sitting up in meditate,

meditative positions. And then that third round, into the

third round, I was, I was like, my head was getting low because it was

so hot in there. Doors open. And then the fourth lot of stones

come in. And that third round, one of the guys had done

a sweat lodge before. You know, he's like, I've had enough and got out and,

and went. And I was super close to following him. I was like,

this is intense. Fourth round karma. And

got through it by the skid of my teeth for every single. I was like,

I, I, I'm like, come on, come on, get through it, get

through it. I knew if I left I'd have been annoyed at myself and I

was not going to do it. Then the power of the container, the group was,

was really strong there because everyone was in it. And when that, the

door opened when he's like, okay, that's it guys. He opened up.

But he said, you got to stay here for a little bit longer. I was

like, tim, okay. But when I looked up and everyone was on the floor,

I was like, okay, it's not just me because this was. That's as hot

as I've ever been. And yeah, it took

a while to even like come around from that. I know it

took you. You had a little moment yourself afterwards and

I was laying down this on the bench, looking up at the

trees. When we finally, we crawled out of there and I was like,

my body was shaking. I was like, okay, you know, you've

gone through that. That's powerful. That's something that a lot of people will

never go through. And you, you survived that. You know, there's

you, you know what you can. It's like the pressure, it molds the,

the stones into diamonds. Right? And so,

and then having that I meant to be in the, the

springs and, and to, and to clear off the water and be around the fire

pit with the guys was, Was very special, you know, and to be with other

men doing this work who care enough to do this work is. It was also

like, you know, okay, there are other guys and it ripples out,

right. To people that we know. And so, yeah,

for anyone who hasn't done a sweat loss before, I would.

Yeah, it was, It's a life changing experience. It's like one of those

experiences you'll never forget. So. Yeah.

And when we ran the fire pit later on and you guys said,

you know, that's the hardest one I've ever done. Me and Harry looked at each

other and we're like, thank God for that. Because we're like,

okay. Because that was right, right on the cusp. And so. Yeah, no,

it was, it was, it was epic.

And that was like the, the energy of that. Yeah,

I'm about to forget that. Yeah, me either. I mean, I've been through a

good, a good number of lodges and they're all different, right. How they're

facilitated the group. Sometimes the hardest ones for me at

least, aren't even the hottest. It just really depends for me

where I'm at in that moment, that season of life,

how much resources I have. You know, facilitating

retreat takes a ton of energy. And so to do that, towards the end of

the retreat, my resources are a bit lower.

And that one humbled me,

right. And took me to exactly the medicine

that I needed as well. I had a. Actually haven't even. I've never

talked about this on a show yet, but I'll share briefly and then,

and then, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll close this out. But man, there was

a lot that came through. But coming out of that lodge and then jumping Right

into the cold water. It

felt like energetically I was

pulsing, but pulsing in this, like, pulsing.

Normally when we think of a pulse, like we put our hand on our pulse

and it's like a little boom, boom. We literally felt like 6 to 8

inches. My entire body was pulsing out. And then to

sit in a meditation position, I went to the same spot I did

last year because I had this really powerful vision. And last

year the vision that I had was eyes

closed, had this picture of hundreds,

if not thousands of people because it's all in the mountains right there,

walking over the mountain. And the message for me in that moment was help

is coming to spread this mission to do more of this work. And it

was so powerful. This year

the message was very similar, except it was even wilder because

it was actually eyes open and it

was seeing this light texture of image of same thing,

hundreds of people, but instead of them coming over the mountains, they

were right here. Like, it's not as clear as I'm seeing you right

now by any means, but it's an image. And it was help is here.

And it was such a powerful, visceral, heart connecting

moments like, God damn, like it's

here. And then the second vision that I had when I

went back to the, to the venue to tell Lauren as soon as I walk

and I was like, sweetie, I had a vision. She's like, oh my God, what

is it this time? And to see

our son, our two sons, that we were going to have a second

kid. And I was like, got so emotional. And

it was a powerful moment for me. So I'm

just super grateful. The, the way Tim led it was amazing.

Deep. And he's been on the podcast just a few episodes before this

one, so please check that. He's a phenomenal human. Wrote the book

the Earth Caretaker Way and, and just the guys that were

there, man, everybody showed up like you said, multiple times, just

locked in. And I learned this from my mentor,

Ted. There's two things that I. And he, you know,

he's taught me, but the really look for in men for this work. I mean,

everybody's welcome for the most part. I've never turned away a guy,

but it's. And I share this on the Discovery calls. One, it's the

willingness to be vulnerable, the willingness to show who you

really are, the challenges that you're really facing, because that's the only

way that I'm really going to get to know you, right? So the willingness to

show up and be vulnerable at whatever level you're comfortable With. But that's key.

The second thing is called generosity of practice. And so

this can show up in many different areas throughout an experience like

this. But, for example, in a sharing circle, you could be sharing something

that you've never shared with anybody, and you're taking a risk.

You're showing this part of you that there may be shame or fear,

embarrassment, whatever. And irregardless of what you

say, I'm going to be a full yes. I'm going

to be a full yes to this man and be there and listen and

give him the time, energy, and presence that he deserves.

And so whatever he says, I'm going to hold him in a high regard, in

a loving regard. And when you combine those things, the generosity to

be there for another man, to call him forward, to sit with him in front

of the lodge, and when he's struggling, be like, yo, brother, we got this.

We got to be generous with your time and energy and support for

another man. And then you're willing to show more parts of you. That

mix creates just a

nucleus of just something so potent. So I also

got, truthfully, so much from this group and this experience,

and I'm so happy that you came, so I wanted

to also just leave it up to you. Any final words, man, that you would

love to communicate as we. As we wrap. You know, Tim.

Yeah. Do you want to echo your words on Tim? He's a special human being,

and I said to him, you should have your own podcast. He just goes into

these stories, and they're like, my man. Like, he just. And

he's got such. His depth and warmth. Yeah. Which is,

like I said, it's really refreshing to see, like, an older

person who isn't, like,

just despondent or torn down

by, you know, stress or

dreams not coming true or life not going their way. And he's just, like.

He broke. He, like, was emotional a few times when he spoke to us, and

I was like, yeah, like, he's. Tears in his eyes, talking about things. Yeah.

That's power. And so, yeah, I know that. The.

The ability for everyone to hold that and to be there for each other and

to speak. And that's why the fire pit at the end of the night is

one of the most powerful things. Right. He just sitting there, and sometimes

the silence in between people are saying stuff. It's okay. Then

things land, and having the.

The confidence to speak up and to share, you know, it's.

It's an interesting thing, and it's really powerful. And so, yeah,

it all combines really Nice. And as you said that there, you said help is

on its way, right? Is your vision. And we talked about this before.

It's why, you know, we were talking about bringing that. This

and the health side of things, of vitality side of things together. Because

there's so many people out there that don't understand just

how good they can feel if they get the health side of the things, right?

So they're doing this, but their life would be easier if they, you know, they,

they. They got all the inflammation out their body and they

healed their gut and they cleared themselves of so many toxins like

mucoid plaque or liver stones. And, and they, they got rid

of heavy metals in their body and, and parasites and all these things, but works

on the internal health. And, and they exercised

intelligently and they got enough sunlight and they, they moved

their body. They did qigong and they did all these things

bit by bit, stage by stage, you know, not all at once, but

getting their vessel, because this work would then be like, okay, I haven't got all

this weighing me down. And similarly, the people that are doing all the

health stuff coming into this, because they're like,

okay, then my vessel is clear. I can start

to embody, I can start to actually work on

the things that, that can allow me to be the best version of myself.

And so I'll clear. That cleared the health. So I cleared all the. The

cleared my vessel of all the toxins and energy and the things that I don't

want. And now my vessel, my mind is ready for

the elevation. And so, yeah, it's like

hand in hand. And that's why, you know, making these, making

these connections and we've known each other for a long time, but

can combine this in some way and be able to help more people. Because

ultimately we said, you know, we're giving people what they.

They need to be the best versions of themselves.

And so most people don't even know what they don't know.

But then by bringing this into. So people come to you and they're like, okay,

then you add this on, you're gonna, it's gonna change your life. And the same

with me. I'm like, okay, this is great. But then, like, what we

doing it for? So you can be the best version of yourself. Okay, then we

need to work on the nervous system, we need to work on, on the mental,

emotional side of things and stepping into your full king energy, you know, and

for women, queen energy, you know, that feminine energy, the, the

polarity between masculine and feminine is super important. And I've talked about that

with my guys and saying I want to bring polarity back. You know, men

being true, true men, that true King energy, and we females

being truly feminine and understanding that we're not meant

to be everything each other is. We're meant to be everything each other isn't, you

know? And so, yeah, it's just,

yeah, like, super, super

happy to. To be here to share this with your brother and, you know, to

be on this path with. With you and as you said, the integration side

of things. Right. And so that's why I'm going to be diving into your. Your

container as well for the. The grounded king. Yeah. Yeah.

Because same as everything, right, We've got these.

You have a course or we work with someone. But it's the integration which is.

Is the super important thing because it allows us to continually

just. Just checking and it keeps you honest and accountable.

And so, yeah, that's going to be powerful. I'm looking forward to it. So, yeah.

I'm so excited, man. Hell yeah. Great conversation, brother. Thank

you for everything and many, many more ahead. Yeah, man.

Been a pleasure. Hell yeah. Till next time. Peace, Pe.