1 00:00:01,290 --> 00:00:02,060 All right, everybody. 2 00:00:02,060 --> 00:00:03,900 Welcome back to another beyond the check. 3 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:04,230 Right. 4 00:00:04,230 --> 00:00:05,900 I'm back here with Kent as usual. 5 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:06,710 How are you doing, Kent? 6 00:00:08,498 --> 00:00:08,998 Excellent. 7 00:00:08,998 --> 00:00:11,398 It's always a good day when we get to talk about flying 8 00:00:12,170 --> 00:00:14,280 Oh, I'm so glad you're back to saying that. 9 00:00:14,710 --> 00:00:15,190 I love it. 10 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:16,500 All right. 11 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,430 So as usual, we're bringing a singular topic. 12 00:00:20,630 --> 00:00:21,910 What have you got for us today? 13 00:00:23,438 --> 00:00:27,268 all about forced induction turbos. 14 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,490 Ooh, That's a manly topic right there. 15 00:00:31,510 --> 00:00:32,090 Turbos. 16 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:32,900 We're 17 00:00:34,638 --> 00:00:35,208 Yes. 18 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:35,820 kidding. 19 00:00:37,118 --> 00:00:37,488 The more 20 00:00:37,788 --> 00:00:38,360 Go fast. 21 00:00:38,668 --> 00:00:39,178 right? 22 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:40,080 That's right. 23 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:40,710 That's right. 24 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,020 More stuff to break. 25 00:00:42,450 --> 00:00:43,000 Love it. 26 00:00:43,150 --> 00:00:43,690 Go fast. 27 00:00:43,690 --> 00:00:44,330 Go high. 28 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:45,400 What it's all about. 29 00:00:45,498 --> 00:00:46,788 higher, farther, faster. 30 00:00:46,788 --> 00:00:50,438 That's, that's kind of the, thing that most pilots are into. 31 00:00:50,438 --> 00:00:51,518 It seems like, right? 32 00:01:20,130 --> 00:01:20,900 Excellent. 33 00:01:21,090 --> 00:01:22,880 All right, well, let's talk about it. 34 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:26,570 I guess there's a few things beyond your check ride that you've learned 35 00:01:26,570 --> 00:01:28,590 about this, so, let's dive into it. 36 00:01:29,448 --> 00:01:29,848 Yeah. 37 00:01:29,848 --> 00:01:35,278 So, um, I guess let's start with just, what it is, um, and 38 00:01:35,288 --> 00:01:37,258 what some of the main types are. 39 00:01:37,908 --> 00:01:41,968 so most of us learn in something simple like a 172 and we call that 40 00:01:42,078 --> 00:01:46,558 normally aspirated where it's just breathing whatever the outside air is. 41 00:01:47,348 --> 00:01:50,538 a lot of people who are listening probably have some experience with 42 00:01:50,578 --> 00:01:53,368 turbos in vehicles, myself included. 43 00:01:55,018 --> 00:01:57,138 and you know, the applications are a little bit. 44 00:01:58,223 --> 00:02:01,673 vehicle on the ground, you're kind of looking to get as much as you 45 00:02:01,673 --> 00:02:03,893 can out of the engine that you have. 46 00:02:04,443 --> 00:02:06,243 and it works really well. 47 00:02:06,243 --> 00:02:10,673 I, I had a, a Volvo with a turbo in it a while back and really liked it. 48 00:02:11,153 --> 00:02:11,523 You know, I 49 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:12,480 I haven't. 50 00:02:12,513 --> 00:02:16,433 a big V8 engine all the time, but I still had some power available 51 00:02:16,433 --> 00:02:17,703 to spare when I needed it. 52 00:02:17,703 --> 00:02:18,123 So, 53 00:02:18,590 --> 00:02:24,970 I haven't driven a normally aspirated engine in something like 12 years 54 00:02:25,190 --> 00:02:28,730 for my daily driver or my truck for that matter, because I've got 55 00:02:28,730 --> 00:02:30,760 a diesel and those are all turbo, 56 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:32,230 all of them, but 57 00:02:32,757 --> 00:02:34,847 well, all, all the modern ones are, 58 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:35,370 Yes, 59 00:02:38,780 --> 00:02:39,290 yeah, they 60 00:02:39,547 --> 00:02:43,297 used to have one from, from the eighties that, that didn't have a turbo. 61 00:02:43,757 --> 00:02:44,697 That was a dog. 62 00:02:45,107 --> 00:02:49,257 But, but yeah, it's, um, it definitely makes a huge difference. 63 00:02:49,707 --> 00:02:54,447 And, um, you know, you, you can feel that boost, but it's quite a bit 64 00:02:54,447 --> 00:02:55,977 different for an airplane, right? 65 00:02:55,977 --> 00:03:00,540 Because we're usually not going to the same um, that we are in a car. 66 00:03:00,993 --> 00:03:02,743 a different problem in an airplane. 67 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:04,170 Good point. 68 00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:11,428 It's not that we're trying to get more out of the same size engine, for the most 69 00:03:11,428 --> 00:03:17,548 part, it's more that we are trying to keep our performance to a higher altitude. 70 00:03:18,488 --> 00:03:23,078 So somewhat of a different, a different problem there, but we're solving it 71 00:03:23,078 --> 00:03:25,388 using, the same tried and true method. 72 00:03:27,118 --> 00:03:30,238 so there's a few different types of forced induction. 73 00:03:30,238 --> 00:03:33,388 There's, superchargers, which are. 74 00:03:33,863 --> 00:03:35,923 Directly driven by the engine. 75 00:03:36,463 --> 00:03:40,453 and then, basically anything that we're talking about today forced 76 00:03:40,453 --> 00:03:46,593 induction wise has a fan somewhere in the intake is blowing and basically 77 00:03:47,503 --> 00:03:53,773 more air into the intake so that we can have more oxygen and fuel available 78 00:03:53,953 --> 00:03:55,943 to combust and make more power. 79 00:03:56,903 --> 00:03:57,393 so. 80 00:03:57,838 --> 00:04:00,288 Superchargers in some ways are pretty simple. 81 00:04:00,288 --> 00:04:04,988 They don't have any of the stuff on the exhaust side, but, for whatever 82 00:04:04,988 --> 00:04:08,118 reason, they aren't very popular either. 83 00:04:09,138 --> 00:04:13,908 I know that there is a supercharger STC available for the diamond star. 84 00:04:15,558 --> 00:04:20,008 but I'd have to honestly look to see what else there's been. 85 00:04:20,748 --> 00:04:22,388 you know, post world war. 86 00:04:22,713 --> 00:04:24,863 With it uses an actual supercharger. 87 00:04:25,665 --> 00:04:30,995 Yeah, it might be because they draw some of the energy from, the power 88 00:04:30,995 --> 00:04:36,255 strokes of the engine themselves, rather than just utilizing the exhaust, 89 00:04:36,255 --> 00:04:40,375 which is, um, sort of being expelled and wasted, if so to speak, anyway, 90 00:04:40,785 --> 00:04:42,375 I'm guessing that might be part of it. 91 00:04:42,385 --> 00:04:44,545 They've gone a little bit out of style in cars, too. 92 00:04:44,995 --> 00:04:51,325 my forced induction vehicle that was my daily driver maybe seven years ago. 93 00:04:51,325 --> 00:04:57,015 And before that was a Mini Cooper S convertible, and that was a supercharger. 94 00:04:57,405 --> 00:05:01,235 Even minis have gone to turbochargers now. 95 00:05:01,525 --> 00:05:04,775 but the hot hatch I drive now is a turbocharger. 96 00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:09,630 And what I've noticed, Kent, is that the turbo lag has mostly gone away 97 00:05:09,630 --> 00:05:13,820 in these modern turbos that used to be one of the things you had to wait 98 00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:17,850 for the turbine to spin up as you accelerated and those gases came out. 99 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:21,170 But I don't know how they these engineers do it, but they've 100 00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:22,250 gotten rid of most of that. 101 00:05:22,250 --> 00:05:23,350 It seems these days. 102 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,100 so, yeah, I've had experience with both, but the, the yeah. 103 00:05:27,490 --> 00:05:30,010 The, superchargers just don't seem to be as popular. 104 00:05:31,563 --> 00:05:32,193 Interesting. 105 00:05:33,093 --> 00:05:37,683 I'm, I'm sitting here wondering as a pilot and someone who knows absolutely nothing 106 00:05:37,693 --> 00:05:43,223 about forced induction on ground vehicles beyond just the experience of using them. 107 00:05:43,623 --> 00:05:47,493 I'm sitting here going now, maybe they came up with some sort of a constant 108 00:05:47,513 --> 00:05:51,123 speed impeller for the, for the turbo. 109 00:05:51,123 --> 00:05:55,463 And maybe they're able to extract more from a slower moving exhaust stream, but. 110 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,050 That sounds expensive and prone to breaking. 111 00:06:00,248 --> 00:06:03,748 Um, but you know, they actually have constant speed props on rubber band 112 00:06:03,748 --> 00:06:05,218 airplanes now, believe it or not. 113 00:06:05,218 --> 00:06:05,638 So 114 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:07,470 Wow. 115 00:06:07,878 --> 00:06:08,338 these days. 116 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,570 That sounds like a whole beyond the check ride topic on its own for the future. 117 00:06:12,988 --> 00:06:13,288 Yeah. 118 00:06:13,288 --> 00:06:16,698 If, if there were check rides for rubber band powered airplanes, 119 00:06:21,438 --> 00:06:21,888 but yeah. 120 00:06:21,888 --> 00:06:27,148 So the other thing of course is, um, and, and this is kind 121 00:06:27,148 --> 00:06:28,738 of split in two for aviation. 122 00:06:30,213 --> 00:06:34,483 you know, you were mentioning turbochargers for a car and there are 123 00:06:34,483 --> 00:06:39,333 airplanes with turbochargers as well, but another thing that is kind of a 124 00:06:39,333 --> 00:06:44,353 special type of turbocharger called a turbo normalizer on an airplane. 125 00:06:45,563 --> 00:06:49,313 the difference there is that a turbocharger on an airplane is 126 00:06:49,313 --> 00:06:52,853 going to give you a manifold pressure that's higher. 127 00:06:53,248 --> 00:06:55,468 than sea level pressure. 128 00:06:56,108 --> 00:07:01,388 Whereas a turbo normalizer is just going to essentially correct for 129 00:07:01,388 --> 00:07:05,618 your altitude and give you sea level pressure at a higher altitude. 130 00:07:05,728 --> 00:07:09,248 So, there's some differences in the engines as well. 131 00:07:09,328 --> 00:07:14,925 so, uh, Turbocharged engine uses lower compression pistons and then you're 132 00:07:14,925 --> 00:07:19,855 just cramming more fuel and air into a bigger space than whereas a turbo 133 00:07:19,855 --> 00:07:24,115 normalizer is often something that's kind of bolted on after the fact, 134 00:07:24,545 --> 00:07:30,945 there's a company called Ray J. that a whole lot of, turbo normalizing systems 135 00:07:30,995 --> 00:07:38,175 for GA in the 60s and 70s and, um, still tons and tons of those out there. 136 00:07:38,265 --> 00:07:43,766 So anyway, regardless of how, you know, of which system you're using turbocharger 137 00:07:43,766 --> 00:07:49,066 or turbo normalizer, of getting the power from the engine like you do with 138 00:07:49,066 --> 00:07:56,576 a supercharger, um, some sort of direct drive, a turbo is using a second fan 139 00:07:56,616 --> 00:07:58,556 that's in the exhaust side of things. 140 00:07:59,296 --> 00:08:04,636 Um, and I'm sure there are probably some Mechanics and pilots and stuff. 141 00:08:04,636 --> 00:08:07,946 We're going to scream at their headphones for this episode. 142 00:08:08,026 --> 00:08:10,556 I'm yes, I'm keeping things simplified. 143 00:08:10,986 --> 00:08:14,526 know, I'm not going to explain every last little thing, but, you know, we're going 144 00:08:14,526 --> 00:08:16,986 to talk about the basics, especially. 145 00:08:17,381 --> 00:08:20,921 Mechanically speaking, we're going to be talking a little more in 146 00:08:20,921 --> 00:08:22,791 detail about operational stuff. 147 00:08:22,811 --> 00:08:23,801 But yeah, it's, 148 00:08:24,111 --> 00:08:27,391 So essentially you have another fan in the exhaust side of things. 149 00:08:27,421 --> 00:08:32,081 and so your, your exhaust that's coming out of the engine is, is blowing 150 00:08:32,081 --> 00:08:36,901 through that and spinning the fan that's attached to a shaft that's attached 151 00:08:36,911 --> 00:08:38,701 to the other fan on the intake side. 152 00:08:38,701 --> 00:08:44,266 So, And then there's a bypass that's called the waste gate and that kind 153 00:08:44,266 --> 00:08:50,116 of controls how much exhaust goes through the fan or not, depending 154 00:08:50,116 --> 00:08:51,826 on how much power you're asking for. 155 00:08:54,133 --> 00:08:57,973 and different airplanes have a bunch of different types of these, a few 156 00:08:57,973 --> 00:08:59,653 different types of these wastegates. 157 00:08:59,653 --> 00:09:00,483 Right? 158 00:09:01,206 --> 00:09:06,936 there are waste gates, which is kind of more of a set it and forget it. 159 00:09:08,476 --> 00:09:09,686 there are some things that will. 160 00:09:10,111 --> 00:09:12,331 take care of the actual waste gate for you. 161 00:09:13,071 --> 00:09:17,131 are manual waste gates where you're more in direct control of the 162 00:09:17,131 --> 00:09:20,961 waste gate itself, as opposed to how much power you're asking for. 163 00:09:22,751 --> 00:09:26,301 and those are sometimes tied to your throttle and sometimes 164 00:09:26,301 --> 00:09:27,901 they're controlled separately. 165 00:09:28,481 --> 00:09:34,501 So, A couple of examples, a Comanche, Piper Comanche is one where you 166 00:09:34,501 --> 00:09:39,501 have direct control of the manual wastegate via its own control. 167 00:09:39,801 --> 00:09:42,981 So if you ever look in the window of a Piper Comanche at the throttle 168 00:09:43,001 --> 00:09:47,826 quadrant and you see four levers instead of three, That's a turbo Comanche. 169 00:09:49,046 --> 00:09:49,686 and so, 170 00:09:50,498 --> 00:09:51,488 One more control. 171 00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:55,396 one all the way forward and you need more power, while you just go over the 172 00:09:55,396 --> 00:09:58,736 waste gate one and you start pushing that forward and that gives you more power. 173 00:10:01,236 --> 00:10:06,986 and then, Cessna, for example, if you get a turbo one 82, the older ones, they 174 00:10:06,986 --> 00:10:11,946 have that, they have a manual waste gate that is, Tied to the throttle control. 175 00:10:11,946 --> 00:10:15,986 So you're kind of moving two controls at once there. 176 00:10:16,786 --> 00:10:17,056 and then 177 00:10:17,468 --> 00:10:24,198 So you, so for that, when you add throttle and it reduces the amount 178 00:10:24,198 --> 00:10:25,458 of air going through the wastegate. 179 00:10:27,756 --> 00:10:32,266 oh man, you're gonna make me think here, Well, I mean, basically the 180 00:10:32,266 --> 00:10:38,296 way, the way any of the waste gates work is, like I said, it's a bypass. 181 00:10:38,998 --> 00:10:39,368 right. 182 00:10:39,796 --> 00:10:46,426 boost you have or the more boost you need, the more closed the wastegate is going to 183 00:10:46,788 --> 00:10:48,448 It bypasses less air, 184 00:10:48,831 --> 00:10:49,221 Yeah. 185 00:10:49,221 --> 00:10:53,101 So in a Cessna, where the two are tied together, when you add 186 00:10:53,111 --> 00:11:00,141 throttle, you're opening the throttle butterfly and you are closing 187 00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:01,978 closing the waste gate. 188 00:11:02,878 --> 00:11:03,218 Yeah. 189 00:11:03,908 --> 00:11:05,318 Giving yourself more boost. 190 00:11:06,691 --> 00:11:07,281 Correct. 191 00:11:08,168 --> 00:11:08,548 Okay. 192 00:11:09,211 --> 00:11:14,921 But yeah, then the last type is the fixed waste gate where, there's always 193 00:11:15,746 --> 00:11:19,576 Basically a fixed, I'm trying to think whether it'd be fixed volume. 194 00:11:19,576 --> 00:11:23,096 It's not fixed volume because there's going to be different speeds of gases. 195 00:11:23,096 --> 00:11:28,506 But one way or the other, it's, you know, no moving parts in there, but having to 196 00:11:28,506 --> 00:11:35,591 control your manifold pressure and it's a little bit less direct control, um, 197 00:11:35,988 --> 00:11:36,308 Hmm. 198 00:11:36,511 --> 00:11:37,961 with an actual waste gate would be. 199 00:11:38,801 --> 00:11:39,138 so an 200 00:11:39,438 --> 00:11:39,808 Okay. 201 00:11:39,961 --> 00:11:46,301 would be a turbo arrow or a Seneca some of the Mooney's have that like the, M 20 202 00:11:46,321 --> 00:11:48,571 K Mooney's will have that system as well. 203 00:11:48,891 --> 00:11:50,151 actually not super common. 204 00:11:50,151 --> 00:11:52,401 I think I may have just listed all of them, but 205 00:11:54,878 --> 00:11:58,098 So, interestingly, if we look at the four you've talked about, that 206 00:11:58,098 --> 00:12:03,318 is the automatic and then two types of manual waste gate controls. 207 00:12:03,368 --> 00:12:04,308 but one of those. 208 00:12:04,773 --> 00:12:08,013 You know, has its own separate control and the other one's tied to the throttle. 209 00:12:08,293 --> 00:12:12,233 And then of course the fixed that has no control at all, it was set it and forget 210 00:12:12,233 --> 00:12:14,723 it at the factory, basically, that. 211 00:12:15,643 --> 00:12:19,313 There's really only one that the pilot has direct control over. 212 00:12:19,323 --> 00:12:23,333 All the others are either fixed or automatic in some way or 213 00:12:23,333 --> 00:12:24,943 another tied to the throttle. 214 00:12:24,953 --> 00:12:25,763 So interesting. 215 00:12:25,851 --> 00:12:26,241 yeah. 216 00:12:27,521 --> 00:12:27,921 Yeah. 217 00:12:29,231 --> 00:12:34,311 so a couple of potential issues that you introduce when you have a turbo. 218 00:12:34,371 --> 00:12:42,901 first of all, you have extra heat and is not something that's good for engines. 219 00:12:42,991 --> 00:12:47,031 It's something that we are constantly thinking about how to get rid of, right? 220 00:12:47,031 --> 00:12:51,658 but of course, when you're taking a gas and compressing it, You are 221 00:12:51,768 --> 00:12:53,658 increasing the temperature as well. 222 00:12:54,298 --> 00:13:00,048 so there are some airplanes that also have, an intercooler and bill, you gave 223 00:13:00,048 --> 00:13:03,148 a great description of this before. 224 00:13:03,478 --> 00:13:04,268 so go ahead. 225 00:13:04,268 --> 00:13:06,228 Why don't you tell them what an intercooler looks 226 00:13:06,528 --> 00:13:07,080 Sure. 227 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,780 just to talk about what Kent is talking about. 228 00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:17,690 We recorded, this, beyond the check ride about a month ago, 229 00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:19,510 but we forgot to hit record. 230 00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:21,640 It happens to everybody at least once, I guess. 231 00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:24,680 And so I don't remember exactly. 232 00:13:24,825 --> 00:13:31,405 Yeah, so, I wasn't ready for this. 233 00:13:31,405 --> 00:13:36,125 I'm not exactly sure what I said before, but I will, I will tell you, because of my 234 00:13:36,125 --> 00:13:41,665 experience with forced induction in cars, front mounted intercoolers are really, 235 00:13:41,685 --> 00:13:47,865 are really common with turbocharged or any forced induction, really, because 236 00:13:48,175 --> 00:13:52,875 as you compress that air, as Kent was talking about, it heats up and the 237 00:13:52,885 --> 00:13:57,305 hotter it is, the less dense it gets, which is what we're trying to avoid by 238 00:13:57,335 --> 00:13:59,165 compressing the air in the first place. 239 00:13:59,595 --> 00:14:02,705 So, we want to keep that air as cool as possible. 240 00:14:03,635 --> 00:14:10,665 Not only not to, you know, introduce extra heat soak on the engine itself, but to 241 00:14:10,665 --> 00:14:13,705 also continue to improve that performance. 242 00:14:14,025 --> 00:14:18,625 And so the way an intercooler works is the air that is being 243 00:14:18,625 --> 00:14:20,265 forced through the turbo. 244 00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:28,310 So after the turbo gets forced through a, an intercooler, which looks a lot like 245 00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:33,970 a radiator, but it doesn't contain, it doesn't contain any coolant or liquid. 246 00:14:34,210 --> 00:14:39,420 It contains the air that's being forced through it from, from 247 00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:40,990 the, the forced induction device. 248 00:14:40,990 --> 00:14:45,680 In this case, most, mostly we're talking about a, turbo itself. 249 00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:48,420 And so the turbo fan pushes it through. 250 00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:54,020 It goes through all these fins that has, air running across the fins to 251 00:14:54,020 --> 00:14:58,190 cool down the air as much as possible before it then goes from the intercooler 252 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,810 and gets put into the engine for mixture with the fuel and combustion. 253 00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:04,950 So that's how it works. 254 00:15:05,425 --> 00:15:07,615 Hopefully that's similar to what I said before, Kent. 255 00:15:08,128 --> 00:15:09,788 Yeah, that's actually more detailed. 256 00:15:09,798 --> 00:15:12,928 Really it was kind of the, the radiator analogy I thought 257 00:15:13,265 --> 00:15:13,865 Oh, yeah. 258 00:15:14,198 --> 00:15:14,405 Okay. 259 00:15:14,498 --> 00:15:15,308 description of it. 260 00:15:15,758 --> 00:15:21,838 And, so not every airplane with a turbo is going to have an 261 00:15:21,838 --> 00:15:26,458 intercooler, but, if you can get one that does have it, that's great. 262 00:15:26,753 --> 00:15:31,423 there are companies that have STCs for those sometimes, speaking of those, 263 00:15:31,453 --> 00:15:34,453 you know, fixed waste gates that we were talking about on the Seneca's and 264 00:15:34,453 --> 00:15:38,803 the turbo arrows and such, there's a company called Merlin that hopefully is 265 00:15:38,803 --> 00:15:42,343 still around that, makes intercoolers for those among other things. 266 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:47,473 Um, you know, if you're shopping for an airplane with a turbo, get 267 00:15:47,473 --> 00:15:51,953 educated on whatever type of airplane you're looking at as to not only what. 268 00:15:52,248 --> 00:15:57,198 type of, forced induction system you have and how the waste gate works and 269 00:15:57,198 --> 00:16:00,698 all that, but whether or not it has an intercooler and whether or not you can 270 00:16:00,698 --> 00:16:02,868 add one if you want to after the fact. 271 00:16:02,868 --> 00:16:08,638 So, so, let's talk about a few operational things. 272 00:16:08,798 --> 00:16:09,428 Um, 273 00:16:11,738 --> 00:16:16,278 one thing that's really nice when you have a normally aspirated airplane is 274 00:16:16,298 --> 00:16:21,458 if you're taking off, but especially if you're going around, can kind 275 00:16:21,458 --> 00:16:23,238 of just take that throttle and. 276 00:16:23,623 --> 00:16:24,673 shove it forward. 277 00:16:24,813 --> 00:16:27,553 Um, you know, and the throttle control is all the way forward. 278 00:16:28,453 --> 00:16:30,453 That's your maximum manifold pressure. 279 00:16:31,083 --> 00:16:33,063 Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, as they say. 280 00:16:35,143 --> 00:16:40,163 when you start getting into things with a turbo, it's not so easy anymore. 281 00:16:40,463 --> 00:16:42,753 and same thing with that supercharger and that diamond. 282 00:16:42,843 --> 00:16:49,643 Um, if you have an automatic waste gate, then you're golden. 283 00:16:50,363 --> 00:16:54,433 But Any of those other types you have to worry about over boosting. 284 00:16:55,153 --> 00:17:02,323 Um, if you have that manual, you know, strictly manual separate wastegate 285 00:17:02,343 --> 00:17:05,063 control, like we were talking about the command, she's having, 286 00:17:07,113 --> 00:17:13,013 that's fairly easy to deal with because you can have that wastegate control all 287 00:17:13,013 --> 00:17:17,923 the way back and essentially just be using ambient air pressure for the most part. 288 00:17:18,373 --> 00:17:22,933 and so you can set that on final approach when you enrich in your mixture 289 00:17:22,933 --> 00:17:24,863 and move your prop control forward. 290 00:17:25,383 --> 00:17:28,823 and so you can be pretty ready for a go around in those two. 291 00:17:29,063 --> 00:17:32,823 and so those are fairly simple as well, but on either the fixed 292 00:17:32,833 --> 00:17:39,073 wastegate or on the, manual ones that are tied to the throttle, you can't. 293 00:17:39,353 --> 00:17:41,503 Push the throttle all the way up anymore. 294 00:17:42,473 --> 00:17:45,343 And so you a lot more careful about that. 295 00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:50,643 so just to consider. 296 00:17:51,383 --> 00:17:56,263 Um, let's see critical altitude. 297 00:17:56,263 --> 00:17:57,703 We haven't talked about that yet. 298 00:17:58,163 --> 00:18:03,313 That's a concept with a forced induction airplane. 299 00:18:03,553 --> 00:18:06,833 Um, and basically that's the altitude 300 00:18:09,023 --> 00:18:13,833 it's the maximum altitude where you can still maintain sea level power. 301 00:18:15,518 --> 00:18:21,418 So, for example, on the Seneca, if I remember right, it's about 12, 000 feet. 302 00:18:22,568 --> 00:18:26,508 and so if you're above 12, 000 feet, well, you can have that throttle 303 00:18:26,508 --> 00:18:27,928 control all the way forward again. 304 00:18:27,928 --> 00:18:30,848 and then as you climb, you start losing power just like a 305 00:18:30,848 --> 00:18:32,488 normally aspirated airplane would 306 00:18:33,285 --> 00:18:36,765 I was going to say, then you join the, the world of the normies where your 307 00:18:36,765 --> 00:18:38,485 manifold pressure goes down as you climb. 308 00:18:40,018 --> 00:18:42,758 kind of, but of course your manifold pressure is still higher than 309 00:18:43,185 --> 00:18:44,325 It's still higher. 310 00:18:44,375 --> 00:18:44,985 That's right. 311 00:18:45,415 --> 00:18:45,915 That's right. 312 00:18:47,428 --> 00:18:51,008 let's see, There's a few things to think about when it comes to 313 00:18:51,058 --> 00:18:52,958 operating at higher altitudes. 314 00:18:53,638 --> 00:18:59,088 Um, cooling is a little more difficult at higher altitudes 315 00:18:59,108 --> 00:19:00,468 because the air is thinner. 316 00:19:00,468 --> 00:19:05,488 So even though the air is colder up there, a lot less of it. 317 00:19:05,658 --> 00:19:10,438 And so, you might have more challenges keeping your cylinders cool. 318 00:19:10,898 --> 00:19:15,498 Um, so that's something that you'll always have to keep an eye on. 319 00:19:16,278 --> 00:19:16,888 Um, 320 00:19:17,715 --> 00:19:17,895 Yeah. 321 00:19:17,895 --> 00:19:19,515 I'd never, I had never thought of that. 322 00:19:20,498 --> 00:19:24,858 Yeah, with that thin air also sparks behave differently. 323 00:19:25,278 --> 00:19:29,558 it's easier for a spark to form and jump a particular gap. 324 00:19:30,028 --> 00:19:34,398 And some airplanes have pressurized mags available. 325 00:19:35,858 --> 00:19:40,328 and that will help the, The spark to be at the right time and the right strength. 326 00:19:41,128 --> 00:19:45,358 Um, then finally, of course, we've been talking about the airplane 327 00:19:45,358 --> 00:19:48,178 the whole time, but we forgot we need to pressurize the pilot too. 328 00:19:50,548 --> 00:19:54,948 So, and what we're talking about there, of course, is the partial pressure 329 00:19:54,948 --> 00:19:56,418 of oxygen that you're breathing. 330 00:19:56,663 --> 00:20:01,643 so either you need to be in a pressurized airplane, which would be really nice. 331 00:20:01,743 --> 00:20:08,133 but usually in piston airplanes, with a few exceptions, of course, but usually 332 00:20:08,133 --> 00:20:13,713 in piston airplanes, we're talking about breathing 100 percent oxygen, through 333 00:20:13,713 --> 00:20:16,703 either a cannula or even a mask up higher. 334 00:20:18,403 --> 00:20:20,973 So that's just something to be aware of. 335 00:20:20,993 --> 00:20:26,083 You should probably go and take the oxygen chamber course somewhere. 336 00:20:26,493 --> 00:20:30,493 I took the opportunity to go do that in Oklahoma City a few years ago, 337 00:20:30,493 --> 00:20:32,623 and it was an excellent experience. 338 00:20:32,713 --> 00:20:36,433 you know, got to see FAA headquarters down there in Oklahoma City. 339 00:20:36,933 --> 00:20:41,153 the instructors from the FAA were really, really good. 340 00:20:41,723 --> 00:20:43,613 I'm, I'm sorry that I missed Loopy. 341 00:20:43,613 --> 00:20:44,063 Kent. 342 00:20:47,241 --> 00:20:48,991 Yeah, it's, I don't know. 343 00:20:48,991 --> 00:20:53,171 I, I'm not that entertaining when I'm loopy, but, I do have a picture of one of 344 00:20:53,171 --> 00:20:58,971 the guys I went down with, having just a really, really dopey smile on his face. 345 00:20:59,981 --> 00:21:03,461 Um, you know, we didn't go super high. 346 00:21:03,471 --> 00:21:06,241 They don't take you up into the thirties or anything like that. 347 00:21:06,441 --> 00:21:07,351 Um, you know, 348 00:21:07,651 --> 00:21:08,613 could get dangerous. 349 00:21:09,001 --> 00:21:09,861 is, right. 350 00:21:09,881 --> 00:21:13,151 And they, they don't want to get it, To the point of danger. 351 00:21:13,151 --> 00:21:17,691 What they want to do they, they actually kind of want it to come on slowly. 352 00:21:18,171 --> 00:21:18,521 So they 353 00:21:18,853 --> 00:21:19,213 Mm-Hmm. 354 00:21:19,448 --> 00:21:19,868 . Mm-Hmm. 355 00:21:20,221 --> 00:21:24,401 I forget if it was 18 or 25, 000 feet that they topped out at, but 356 00:21:25,161 --> 00:21:31,866 where, you know, you can't for too long without, breathing some oxygen. 357 00:21:32,436 --> 00:21:38,376 Um, and they basically have you sit at that higher altitude for several 358 00:21:38,376 --> 00:21:43,796 minutes and kind of progressively get worse and worse and worse until you 359 00:21:43,796 --> 00:21:46,996 finally throw up your hands and say, all right, I got to put the mask on. 360 00:21:48,421 --> 00:21:52,431 And they encourage you to, to do that as soon as you really 361 00:21:52,451 --> 00:21:53,821 understand how you feel. 362 00:21:53,831 --> 00:21:57,251 Because the point is not to show you how dumb you can get. 363 00:21:57,681 --> 00:22:00,461 The point is for you to recognize what your 364 00:22:00,853 --> 00:22:01,213 Right? 365 00:22:01,471 --> 00:22:01,801 are. 366 00:22:01,861 --> 00:22:04,431 Because everybody's a little bit different. 367 00:22:04,841 --> 00:22:09,311 Um, You know, they talk about, starvation for air where you, you 368 00:22:09,311 --> 00:22:12,801 just feel like you can't breathe enough being one of those symptoms. 369 00:22:12,821 --> 00:22:17,541 And, of course the stuff where you kind of get stupid, 370 00:22:18,323 --> 00:22:19,493 Feel euphoric. 371 00:22:19,903 --> 00:22:20,173 Yeah. 372 00:22:20,231 --> 00:22:20,473 right? 373 00:22:20,661 --> 00:22:23,381 Yeah, there are a handful of different symptoms and everybody 374 00:22:23,381 --> 00:22:24,681 experiences it differently. 375 00:22:24,681 --> 00:22:27,611 And the whole point of the course is for you to learn 376 00:22:28,011 --> 00:22:30,731 what hypoxia feels like to you. 377 00:22:31,506 --> 00:22:34,656 So that when it happens for real, you can recognize it and take 378 00:22:34,666 --> 00:22:38,676 care of it early enough that it doesn't, you know, knock you out. 379 00:22:39,486 --> 00:22:48,086 Um, and so I wouldn't even say that I experienced one of those symptoms, you 380 00:22:48,086 --> 00:22:53,956 know, more so than the others, but I, I kind of do have this general feeling. 381 00:22:54,916 --> 00:23:00,906 I can recognize that's different from other things I feel and I can recognize 382 00:23:00,906 --> 00:23:07,196 it now as hypoxia, you know, my heart will kind of be beating a little 383 00:23:07,336 --> 00:23:13,336 hard in my chest and, you know, I'll need to breathe a little more and, 384 00:23:13,743 --> 00:23:14,606 Mm-Hmm. 385 00:23:14,906 --> 00:23:19,766 of have that, it's not a, like I said, none of them really jump out for me. 386 00:23:19,776 --> 00:23:23,996 So, which honestly could make it worse, because 387 00:23:24,234 --> 00:23:24,235 Mm-Hmm. 388 00:23:24,536 --> 00:23:28,496 you don't have something that's way out of whack, you might think, oh, I'm fine. 389 00:23:28,526 --> 00:23:33,586 But now I'm able to say, okay, well, when I have these few things happen 390 00:23:33,586 --> 00:23:36,466 together, know that that's hypoxia. 391 00:23:36,476 --> 00:23:40,676 That's not just, you know, I didn't get enough sleep last night or whatever. 392 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:41,526 It's, um, 393 00:23:42,323 --> 00:23:45,473 Well, that's a great thing to have experience with, to be able to recognize. 394 00:23:45,743 --> 00:23:45,953 Yeah. 395 00:23:45,953 --> 00:23:47,903 And I guess that's the whole point of the exercise. 396 00:23:48,346 --> 00:23:52,306 So if you're going to go out and buy a forced induction airplane that's 397 00:23:52,306 --> 00:23:56,226 not pressurized or even if it is pressurized, and you're going to go 398 00:23:56,236 --> 00:24:01,386 out and fly at high altitudes, I highly recommend that course from the FAA. 399 00:24:01,406 --> 00:24:01,816 So, 400 00:24:02,456 --> 00:24:05,186 I think they do something similar at Air Venture too. 401 00:24:06,059 --> 00:24:09,399 yeah, one of the, what they do bring to AirVenture, they don't, they 402 00:24:09,399 --> 00:24:13,704 don't bring the hypobaric chamber, to AirVenture because, it's probably 403 00:24:13,704 --> 00:24:14,894 pretty heavy and hard to move. 404 00:24:16,174 --> 00:24:20,154 But, and I was just about to talk about this is, if you have some sort 405 00:24:20,154 --> 00:24:26,814 of, physical issue that prevents you from being able to intentionally go 406 00:24:26,864 --> 00:24:35,624 to a pressure, you know, where it's 20, feet, they have another option. 407 00:24:35,714 --> 00:24:40,204 And that is that instead of changing the pressure, they change the amount. 408 00:24:40,409 --> 00:24:41,629 of oxygen. 409 00:24:42,049 --> 00:24:47,389 And so they basically displace some of the oxygen by adding extra nitrogen 410 00:24:47,789 --> 00:24:50,029 into this box that they bring along. 411 00:24:52,934 --> 00:24:56,604 So yeah, that's what they bring to Oshkosh is the, the nitrogen box. 412 00:24:56,704 --> 00:25:00,894 so you, you can get those same feelings of hypoxia without actually 413 00:25:00,894 --> 00:25:02,004 having to change the pressure. 414 00:25:02,834 --> 00:25:06,824 Um, along with that whole course, by the way, they also will do the 415 00:25:06,824 --> 00:25:10,944 spatial disorientation simulator, which they might bring to Oshkosh as well. 416 00:25:10,944 --> 00:25:14,114 I don't, I don't know that I've heard of that being there, but I think it's small 417 00:25:14,114 --> 00:25:15,694 enough that they could if they wanted to. 418 00:25:16,444 --> 00:25:23,514 Um, And what that is, is it's essentially a, a box big enough for you to sit in 419 00:25:23,544 --> 00:25:28,474 and there's a flight simulator, on the inside, it's all mounted on a swivel. 420 00:25:29,334 --> 00:25:36,064 And so what they do is you get inside this box you start flying the flight simulator 421 00:25:37,204 --> 00:25:46,674 what they do is the swivel starts to turn ever so slowly and they accelerate it at a 422 00:25:46,674 --> 00:25:48,964 rate that's so low that you can't feel it. 423 00:25:50,624 --> 00:25:55,644 And so over the course of several minutes, you'll start turning around and 424 00:25:55,644 --> 00:25:58,994 they're not going to let it get to where it's a centrifuge kind of situation or 425 00:25:59,321 --> 00:25:59,671 Yeah, 426 00:25:59,764 --> 00:26:01,574 It doesn't have to turn all that much. 427 00:26:02,321 --> 00:26:02,751 right. 428 00:26:02,834 --> 00:26:03,454 to turn. 429 00:26:04,034 --> 00:26:07,364 And so they're probably getting to where it's maybe doing. 430 00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:13,674 or 30 RPM, I would guess at most, you know, that means every two or three 431 00:26:13,674 --> 00:26:20,914 seconds you're turning around they have the process of accelerating you, they have 432 00:26:20,924 --> 00:26:23,984 also accelerated the fluids in your ear. 433 00:26:24,851 --> 00:26:25,201 Yep. 434 00:26:25,264 --> 00:26:28,214 And what they'll do is they'll have their guys acting as their traffic 435 00:26:28,224 --> 00:26:30,144 control and instructor and everything. 436 00:26:30,224 --> 00:26:33,664 And they'll have you turn to some headings and stuff while they're accelerating you. 437 00:26:33,664 --> 00:26:39,319 And then eventually, They'll like give you a new squat code or something like that, 438 00:26:39,339 --> 00:26:42,719 but they have the transponder mounted all the way at the bottom of the panel 439 00:26:43,081 --> 00:26:43,871 You have to look down. 440 00:26:44,689 --> 00:26:48,349 And as soon as you take your head and go like this and you're 441 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,559 turning, whoa, you know, the world just goes topsy turvy on you. 442 00:26:54,009 --> 00:26:57,434 It's That was a good experience to have too. 443 00:26:57,901 --> 00:26:58,321 Yeah, 444 00:26:58,524 --> 00:27:03,234 like I said, in the longest way possible, definitely recommend going to FAA 445 00:27:03,244 --> 00:27:05,504 headquarters and doing the, training 446 00:27:06,161 --> 00:27:09,321 you got to take care of the pilot to not just the mags and the cooling. 447 00:27:10,584 --> 00:27:11,574 exactly. 448 00:27:12,151 --> 00:27:15,721 what, can, what about, descents in a forced induction 449 00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:17,131 airplane or a turbo airplane? 450 00:27:17,131 --> 00:27:18,481 Anything to consider there? 451 00:27:20,084 --> 00:27:22,864 Well, depends who you ask. 452 00:27:23,794 --> 00:27:24,414 So 453 00:27:24,811 --> 00:27:27,211 This is where, this is where it can get controversial. 454 00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:32,299 this, this can get downright religious in some cases, but, depending on who 455 00:27:32,299 --> 00:27:36,429 you ask, some people will say there is such a thing as shock cooling. 456 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,789 And if you've ever taken a, how do you do this? 457 00:27:39,789 --> 00:27:43,869 You take a glass or something and you heat it up and then throw it in the freezer 458 00:27:43,869 --> 00:27:45,549 or something like that and it cracks? 459 00:27:46,369 --> 00:27:46,859 I don't know. 460 00:27:47,114 --> 00:27:47,714 I've never done 461 00:27:48,121 --> 00:27:49,161 Something like that. 462 00:27:49,221 --> 00:27:49,671 I don't know. 463 00:27:49,734 --> 00:27:54,224 things, things can crack with extreme enough temperature changes. 464 00:27:54,264 --> 00:28:00,494 And some people believe that you can crack cylinders that way. 465 00:28:01,194 --> 00:28:06,904 Um, and so they go to great lengths to do things like, I'm only 466 00:28:06,904 --> 00:28:10,294 going to pull back a half inch of manifold pressure every minute. 467 00:28:10,294 --> 00:28:14,734 Or, um, you know, I'm going to run speed brakes the whole way down so that I can 468 00:28:14,734 --> 00:28:16,934 keep a higher power setting and all that. 469 00:28:19,004 --> 00:28:24,364 I'm on the side where I don't that I necessarily believe that shot 470 00:28:24,364 --> 00:28:28,144 cooling is a big enough issue to cause huge problems with an engine. 471 00:28:29,334 --> 00:28:33,514 On the other hand, you can be nice to your engine anyway. 472 00:28:33,564 --> 00:28:37,074 I think we already talked about this when we talked about planning your descents. 473 00:28:37,671 --> 00:28:38,091 That's right. 474 00:28:38,254 --> 00:28:41,024 I still, I don't go to quite the extreme. 475 00:28:41,024 --> 00:28:43,954 I just said, you know, I'll, I'll pull like three inches of 476 00:28:43,954 --> 00:28:45,564 manifold pressure at the same time. 477 00:28:46,864 --> 00:28:50,044 But if you, Something to think about, you know, you don't want to come 478 00:28:50,054 --> 00:28:54,454 screaming into the pattern at 200 knots and then yank the power back to idle. 479 00:28:54,894 --> 00:28:57,234 Um, so even 480 00:28:57,646 --> 00:28:58,976 then shut the engine down. 481 00:28:59,474 --> 00:29:00,184 yeah, right. 482 00:29:01,354 --> 00:29:06,334 Well, some of the people who say, Yeah, shock cooling is not a thing. 483 00:29:06,334 --> 00:29:10,364 We'll point out rightfully so that the fastest your engine cools down is 484 00:29:10,364 --> 00:29:11,854 right after you shut it down anyway. 485 00:29:11,884 --> 00:29:12,264 So, 486 00:29:12,626 --> 00:29:13,076 That's right. 487 00:29:13,114 --> 00:29:17,254 there's not a whole lot we can do about that, but anyway, 488 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:21,096 Although there generally is a procedure for, for cool down when 489 00:29:21,096 --> 00:29:22,526 she land in a turbo airplane. 490 00:29:22,526 --> 00:29:22,766 Right. 491 00:29:23,244 --> 00:29:23,614 yeah. 492 00:29:23,614 --> 00:29:27,014 And that is more around, cooling the turbo itself. 493 00:29:27,654 --> 00:29:31,404 So that's something that you do have to think about because the 494 00:29:31,404 --> 00:29:34,214 turbo is mostly cooled by oil flow. 495 00:29:35,054 --> 00:29:37,794 And so you're pumping engine oil through there 496 00:29:40,184 --> 00:29:45,024 If the turbo, think about how hot a turbo must get, you know, your exhaust gas 497 00:29:45,034 --> 00:29:50,854 temperatures are going to be, you know, north of 1500, even a normally aspirated 498 00:29:50,854 --> 00:29:52,864 airplane, when you're leaned for cruise. 499 00:29:53,274 --> 00:29:58,274 Um, and you know, I was just looking at the, Mooney Bravo. 500 00:29:58,419 --> 00:29:59,519 P O H here. 501 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:06,079 And there's like, they're talking about 1650 and 1750 being limits for your 502 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:08,049 turbine inlet temperature on the turbo, 503 00:30:08,966 --> 00:30:10,806 I mean, I, I would venture to say, 504 00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:14,149 gas is going into the, into the fan on the exhaust side. 505 00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:17,079 And so things are going to get hot, 506 00:30:17,866 --> 00:30:24,176 Kent, I, I think I may even be safe in saying that that air is hotter than the 507 00:30:24,176 --> 00:30:26,026 air coming out of us most of the time. 508 00:30:27,339 --> 00:30:27,909 maybe 509 00:30:30,819 --> 00:30:33,349 I give that about a body even odds on that one. 510 00:30:36,914 --> 00:30:44,414 But I can say that I have been in a 414 and I've, you know, you can see the turbo 511 00:30:44,454 --> 00:30:47,044 glowing, through the fins and the calling. 512 00:30:47,734 --> 00:30:48,994 Um, at least I think that was 513 00:30:49,236 --> 00:30:49,756 That's hot. 514 00:30:49,814 --> 00:30:50,474 was a long, 515 00:30:50,726 --> 00:30:51,076 hot. 516 00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:51,095 That's hot. 517 00:30:51,214 --> 00:30:54,124 but yeah, I could, I could see the turbo glowing. 518 00:30:55,364 --> 00:30:58,504 and so yeah, those things get really, really hot. 519 00:30:58,514 --> 00:31:02,024 And you can imagine that if you kept power in right till the 520 00:31:02,024 --> 00:31:07,084 end, um, you know, Now you have something that's really, really hot. 521 00:31:07,464 --> 00:31:10,954 It's getting cooled by engine oil and you notice some, there's obviously 522 00:31:10,954 --> 00:31:16,014 some airflow happening there too, but, the, the primary cooling is coming from 523 00:31:16,014 --> 00:31:20,884 the engine oil and you have bearings that have to support this shaft. 524 00:31:20,904 --> 00:31:23,794 That's going many thousands of RPM. 525 00:31:25,024 --> 00:31:29,134 And now you're going to shut the thing down and whatever oil is in there is 526 00:31:29,134 --> 00:31:32,184 going to be absorbing a lot of heat. 527 00:31:33,234 --> 00:31:35,224 so yeah, cooling down the turbos. 528 00:31:35,484 --> 00:31:38,454 Definitely something that you have to pay a lot of attention to. 529 00:31:38,904 --> 00:31:41,764 and this is one of those things where those, those fixed wastegates 530 00:31:41,794 --> 00:31:44,474 are really kind of awful. 531 00:31:45,814 --> 00:31:49,444 If you think about, you know, the other types of wastegates, you can 532 00:31:49,444 --> 00:31:53,644 essentially get to the point where most of the exhaust is going through, the 533 00:31:53,644 --> 00:31:56,434 bypass and not going through the fan. 534 00:31:56,444 --> 00:32:00,364 Whereas a fixed wastegate, even when you're at idle. 535 00:32:00,499 --> 00:32:03,869 You still have exhaust gases that are going through that turbo fan. 536 00:32:04,669 --> 00:32:08,159 so, you know, those are, those are pretty hot. 537 00:32:08,339 --> 00:32:15,379 And on those, you have to have, the throttle at like all the way idle for 538 00:32:15,409 --> 00:32:19,959 at least five minutes before you shut down the engine, which means that 539 00:32:20,349 --> 00:32:25,619 you might sit there with a line guy standing in front of you, why on earth 540 00:32:25,619 --> 00:32:29,099 you haven't shut your engine down, or, you know, you might have passengers 541 00:32:29,099 --> 00:32:30,289 in the back saying, I don't know. 542 00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:33,919 Why can't we shut these engines off and get off this darn airplane, you know? 543 00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:34,781 Yep. 544 00:32:34,881 --> 00:32:35,211 Yep. 545 00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:37,639 so, yet another thing to think about. 546 00:32:38,771 --> 00:32:39,231 Well, can't. 547 00:32:39,449 --> 00:32:43,279 one of the things I actually like about the, I'll call it the Comanche 548 00:32:43,289 --> 00:32:45,589 setup, for the third time here. 549 00:32:45,939 --> 00:32:50,119 but the, manual wastegates where you actually have direct control of it. 550 00:32:50,379 --> 00:32:55,859 With those, can essentially, not completely, but you can almost shut 551 00:32:55,859 --> 00:33:00,059 the turbo off in a way, and you know, like when you're coming down from 552 00:33:00,059 --> 00:33:03,969 altitude and you don't need all that power anymore, you're gaining manifold 553 00:33:04,009 --> 00:33:05,989 pressure as the air is getting thicker, 554 00:33:06,681 --> 00:33:09,571 Just send as much as you can out through the waste gate, right? 555 00:33:09,871 --> 00:33:10,881 right, and, 556 00:33:11,181 --> 00:33:11,491 Yeah. 557 00:33:12,069 --> 00:33:14,594 you know, so you can just Keep pulling that back. 558 00:33:14,634 --> 00:33:19,984 And really not going to be wanting to run at a hundred percent power or anything. 559 00:33:19,984 --> 00:33:26,324 So at some point, you know, if you start getting below, you know, seven, 560 00:33:26,324 --> 00:33:30,544 eight, nine, 10, 000 feet, you'll probably have that waste gate wide open. 561 00:33:30,724 --> 00:33:35,134 And at that point, now you're really helping that turbo cool down for that 562 00:33:35,611 --> 00:33:36,151 Mm hmm. 563 00:33:36,284 --> 00:33:37,464 of your descent as well. 564 00:33:37,464 --> 00:33:37,824 So, 565 00:33:39,201 --> 00:33:39,861 Interesting. 566 00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:42,679 Another thing I like about that particular setup. 567 00:33:43,441 --> 00:33:48,171 Well, as a pilot, who might own a, you know, a turbo normalized 568 00:33:48,171 --> 00:33:52,391 airplane, it sounds like that pilot needs some extra things to consider. 569 00:33:52,621 --> 00:33:55,261 there's going to be extra things to check in the annual. 570 00:33:55,591 --> 00:33:58,791 additional costs because additional parts means that other thing, you 571 00:33:58,791 --> 00:34:00,611 know, things more things to fail. 572 00:34:01,081 --> 00:34:05,951 you got to manage the extra heat, maybe an extra control lever. 573 00:34:06,261 --> 00:34:07,951 you got to think about some different things. 574 00:34:08,241 --> 00:34:12,761 So the big question is why go through all that trouble? 575 00:34:13,021 --> 00:34:16,471 Why do people, why do people, want to fly a turbo airplane? 576 00:34:16,471 --> 00:34:19,421 Now I have flying out here in the West. 577 00:34:19,731 --> 00:34:22,911 I have my favorite reason why I would like to have a turbo, 578 00:34:22,911 --> 00:34:24,811 but why, why do we want turbos? 579 00:34:24,961 --> 00:34:25,551 Why do we need them? 580 00:34:26,169 --> 00:34:29,289 Well, there are several reasons to have them. 581 00:34:29,299 --> 00:34:35,249 you know, the most obvious is if you are out West in the mountains and, know, 582 00:34:35,439 --> 00:34:37,469 if you're based at Leadville, Colorado. 583 00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:38,989 You probably want a turbo. 584 00:34:40,349 --> 00:34:43,439 remind me to bring Leadville back up in a second when I talk about 585 00:34:43,439 --> 00:34:44,869 why you don't want a turbo though. 586 00:34:46,819 --> 00:34:52,079 but yeah, if you have significant terrain around you and you have, departure 587 00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,409 procedures that you need to follow that tell you, you know, you got to 588 00:34:55,409 --> 00:34:59,309 climb in the hold until you get to this altitude before you can go anywhere. 589 00:34:59,749 --> 00:35:01,429 Yeah, you're probably going to want a turbo. 590 00:35:01,799 --> 00:35:06,649 Of course, you know, because of all the stuff we talked about with 591 00:35:06,759 --> 00:35:10,749 turbos and ground vehicles, people associate them with performance. 592 00:35:10,779 --> 00:35:15,369 And so there are a lot of people who well, I want to go fast. 593 00:35:15,379 --> 00:35:16,539 So I want a turbo. 594 00:35:17,329 --> 00:35:20,559 Well, there is truth to that. 595 00:35:21,049 --> 00:35:21,669 Um, 596 00:35:21,986 --> 00:35:24,096 Mostly because it can let you go higher. 597 00:35:24,499 --> 00:35:24,959 right. 598 00:35:25,781 --> 00:35:27,891 That's kind of what it comes down to, right? 599 00:35:28,449 --> 00:35:32,219 allowing you to maintain more power at a higher altitude. 600 00:35:32,229 --> 00:35:34,399 So you get a faster true air speed. 601 00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:36,849 Um, but. 602 00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:41,789 that also means you have to get up to the higher altitude and come back down. 603 00:35:41,889 --> 00:35:45,859 And so you have to be flying legs that are long enough to make that worthwhile. 604 00:35:46,651 --> 00:35:46,841 Yeah. 605 00:35:46,841 --> 00:35:47,421 That makes sense. 606 00:35:47,809 --> 00:35:54,509 if, it's normal for you to be flying hundreds of miles at a time, then yeah, 607 00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:56,089 turbo can be a great thing for you. 608 00:35:56,799 --> 00:36:05,794 Um, so I would say, Um, I guess we didn't really specifically call out takeoff 609 00:36:05,804 --> 00:36:11,544 performance, but that's kind of the third reason is if you are at a field 610 00:36:11,544 --> 00:36:17,194 that, you know, is at a higher altitude, especially higher density altitudes, 611 00:36:17,194 --> 00:36:22,354 and you need to get faster speeds on takeoff to be able to get off the ground. 612 00:36:22,774 --> 00:36:25,584 and you need to have the power to do that, obviously. 613 00:36:25,584 --> 00:36:26,014 So, 614 00:36:26,494 --> 00:36:26,784 Yeah. 615 00:36:26,784 --> 00:36:27,354 I've got a, 616 00:36:27,487 --> 00:36:28,817 with shorter runways. 617 00:36:29,017 --> 00:36:31,427 Yeah, you probably want to consider a turbo. 618 00:36:31,437 --> 00:36:35,947 So those are really the three big things take off performance, climb performance 619 00:36:36,007 --> 00:36:40,337 and then speed on longer legs are the reasons to really get a turbo. 620 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,690 probably the primary one that has made me want to turbo, even though I'm essentially 621 00:36:45,690 --> 00:36:47,540 a flatlander living in Wisconsin here. 622 00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:56,220 I have been cruising at 15, 000 feet in my Mooney, is normally aspirated and 623 00:36:56,220 --> 00:37:02,780 I've There's been a layer below me at 13, 000 and then 13, 500 and then 14, 624 00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:07,760 and then, you know, climbing up towards me that I was pretty sure had ice in 625 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,280 it and I do not have a de iced Mooney. 626 00:37:11,310 --> 00:37:15,040 So, I was sitting there looking down and going, Oh boy. 627 00:37:15,790 --> 00:37:18,870 I want to risk trying to climb to 17, 000? 628 00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:24,100 so that is the, the additional thing there is just operationally 629 00:37:24,110 --> 00:37:25,640 speaking, mostly weather. 630 00:37:25,950 --> 00:37:28,270 in addition to the terrain, of course, that we talked about 631 00:37:28,270 --> 00:37:32,470 already, you may want to go higher for, for that sort of reason, or 632 00:37:32,797 --> 00:37:33,017 Yeah. 633 00:37:33,017 --> 00:37:33,437 Cause I 634 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,420 through an icy layer as quick as possible. 635 00:37:37,177 --> 00:37:37,497 Yeah. 636 00:37:37,647 --> 00:37:43,637 So, so yeah, I guess in a situation like that, a couple thousand, 4, 000 feet, 637 00:37:44,127 --> 00:37:48,937 if you could go higher efficiently and quickly could mean the difference between 638 00:37:48,937 --> 00:37:50,797 being out of the icing and in it, right? 639 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:52,270 Yeah. 640 00:37:52,667 --> 00:37:53,297 Interesting. 641 00:37:53,350 --> 00:37:56,805 I'm at, 5, 000 feet and I decided I need to climb to 9, 642 00:37:56,805 --> 00:37:58,675 000 feet to get out of the ice. 643 00:37:58,675 --> 00:37:59,535 That's one thing. 644 00:37:59,925 --> 00:38:05,125 If I'm at 15, 000 feet and I need to climb to 19, 000, you know, 645 00:38:05,175 --> 00:38:06,365 now I'm probably in trouble. 646 00:38:06,865 --> 00:38:07,365 Okay. 647 00:38:07,465 --> 00:38:08,125 Interesting. 648 00:38:08,233 --> 00:38:10,483 is, my ceiling is still 20, 000 feet. 649 00:38:10,483 --> 00:38:11,983 And it's 650 00:38:12,295 --> 00:38:14,415 It'll really start to climb slower to get there. 651 00:38:14,415 --> 00:38:15,745 Yeah, exactly. 652 00:38:16,985 --> 00:38:17,735 Interesting. 653 00:38:18,408 --> 00:38:19,418 so you 654 00:38:19,665 --> 00:38:20,155 way. 655 00:38:20,670 --> 00:38:25,120 Yeah, way back when, I was training, to get my private pilot license. 656 00:38:25,650 --> 00:38:28,710 and I may have talked about this on the podcast at some time in the past 657 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:33,590 when I covered this solo flight, one of my solos took me up north into the 658 00:38:33,590 --> 00:38:39,430 mountains and I landed at, Prescott, Arizona, which is quite a bit higher 659 00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:41,370 than the Phoenix Valley in elevation. 660 00:38:41,830 --> 00:38:42,750 And it was summer. 661 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,740 If most people remember, I did my private training in the 662 00:38:45,740 --> 00:38:47,110 summer because I'm an idiot. 663 00:38:50,430 --> 00:38:54,280 And, I remember thinking that was the first time I thought, boy, 664 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,570 it sure be nice to have a turbo normalized airplane up here. 665 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,780 So I was on my solo, one of my solo cross countries. 666 00:39:02,780 --> 00:39:06,110 And luckily I was the only one in the airplane, but I was taking off. 667 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:11,360 From Prescott headed south and there's a mountain range there and I remember 668 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,510 thinking to myself several times You know the tower had me headed straight 669 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:19,460 out to the south and I kept thinking I didn't have a lot of experience of 670 00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:23,240 course at the time and I kept thinking am I higher than those mountains yet? 671 00:39:23,685 --> 00:39:25,525 I'm not really sure. 672 00:39:27,235 --> 00:39:29,985 And I was climbing very, very slowly. 673 00:39:29,985 --> 00:39:33,855 So yeah, out, out in the mountains or high elevation airports, having 674 00:39:33,855 --> 00:39:36,935 a turbo would certainly be helpful to help you clear terrain easier. 675 00:39:38,768 --> 00:39:43,438 Definitely now I mentioned something about Leadville a minute ago 676 00:39:44,085 --> 00:39:44,685 Oh yes. 677 00:39:45,258 --> 00:39:50,308 Leadville for those of you who don't know Leadville, Colorado is the highest 678 00:39:50,498 --> 00:39:55,558 elevation airport in the United States public use at least there might be 679 00:39:55,558 --> 00:39:56,848 some private ones that are higher 680 00:39:57,085 --> 00:39:59,355 Believe it's almost 10, 000 feet, right? 681 00:39:59,365 --> 00:40:00,125 Nine something. 682 00:40:00,228 --> 00:40:03,508 934 feet standing on the ground. 683 00:40:04,848 --> 00:40:10,988 and that place is where I have my record density altitude at takeoff. 684 00:40:11,018 --> 00:40:15,888 the first time I left Leadville was in a 182 and the density 685 00:40:15,888 --> 00:40:18,228 altitude was 12, 200 feet 686 00:40:19,405 --> 00:40:21,915 Normally aspirated 182, I might add, right? 687 00:40:21,978 --> 00:40:23,798 aspirated one day to correct. 688 00:40:23,798 --> 00:40:28,088 And so, you know, normal takeoff was about 650 or 700 feet 689 00:40:28,088 --> 00:40:30,928 in that airplane, at gross. 690 00:40:31,048 --> 00:40:35,538 And I was At least a few hundred pounds under gross. 691 00:40:35,568 --> 00:40:39,098 And we were rolling down that runway for 2000 feet. 692 00:40:39,728 --> 00:40:45,818 So tripling at least your takeoff role is what that looks like. 693 00:40:47,178 --> 00:40:55,798 Um, but for those who think they need a turbo who live in higher places like that, 694 00:40:56,688 --> 00:41:03,348 um, sure if they're still in operation, but there at least was a flight school, 695 00:41:03,438 --> 00:41:10,078 maybe still is, at Leadville, Colorado, that uses normally aspirated 172s. 696 00:41:10,788 --> 00:41:14,928 And not only were they normally aspirated, they were the older, 697 00:41:15,048 --> 00:41:19,668 geared continental engines that were 145 horsepower sea level. 698 00:41:21,848 --> 00:41:26,298 it is possible to fly normally aspirated airplanes out of higher, higher fields. 699 00:41:26,778 --> 00:41:27,108 Given 700 00:41:27,625 --> 00:41:27,825 I, 701 00:41:28,125 --> 00:41:28,708 length and 702 00:41:29,045 --> 00:41:29,415 Yep, 703 00:41:29,468 --> 00:41:31,188 really nice long runway. 704 00:41:31,955 --> 00:41:34,255 and and a valley to the south. 705 00:41:34,385 --> 00:41:38,475 I believe that allows you to not have to clear terrain right away 706 00:41:38,515 --> 00:41:43,955 So so that helps too, but but yeah, imagine Imagine training doing 707 00:41:43,955 --> 00:41:45,555 your primary training in Leadville. 708 00:41:45,615 --> 00:41:48,685 I didn't know that there was a flight school there that used these 172s, 709 00:41:48,725 --> 00:41:52,315 but Imagine doing your initial flight training there and then someday 710 00:41:52,315 --> 00:41:56,045 going somewhere else and thinking what has happened to the airplane 711 00:41:57,568 --> 00:41:58,178 Yeah. 712 00:41:58,378 --> 00:41:58,818 Somebody 713 00:41:59,150 --> 00:42:00,268 it fly so well? 714 00:42:00,568 --> 00:42:01,058 low lead. 715 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,000 Yeah, those are going to be, careful climbout pilots. 716 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,520 I'll tell you that they're going to get a lot of practice climbing in high density. 717 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:13,840 That's, that's pretty awesome. 718 00:42:14,178 --> 00:42:20,428 Yeah, So before we finish up, now that we've talked about turbos all day, 719 00:42:20,438 --> 00:42:22,628 let's talk about why you don't want one. 720 00:42:23,650 --> 00:42:25,080 All right, let's do it. 721 00:42:25,368 --> 00:42:25,908 And 722 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:27,280 the topic properly. 723 00:42:27,928 --> 00:42:34,998 Yeah, well, will say that I have thought long and hard about this, and despite 724 00:42:35,088 --> 00:42:40,048 there having been times where I wished I had a turbo, I have decided that for 725 00:42:40,048 --> 00:42:43,118 the most part, for me, it's a bad idea. 726 00:42:44,678 --> 00:42:48,293 and I think that, If you're not in one of those groups of people we 727 00:42:48,293 --> 00:42:53,453 talked about earlier, you know, where you're either based high somewhere 728 00:42:53,463 --> 00:42:59,423 or with a lot of terrain around you, or you're of always flying the long 729 00:42:59,423 --> 00:43:02,763 legs, you probably don't want a turbo. 730 00:43:03,073 --> 00:43:08,093 I guess I could put an asterisk on there and say some of the things about that, 731 00:43:10,183 --> 00:43:13,773 Comanche setup again, the, you know, one of the ones that has a 732 00:43:13,833 --> 00:43:16,973 directly controllable, wastegate. 733 00:43:18,553 --> 00:43:19,113 Okay. 734 00:43:19,303 --> 00:43:21,103 Maybe you could still use that. 735 00:43:21,143 --> 00:43:24,513 Unfortunately, that's not an option for me, with the Mooney there. 736 00:43:24,723 --> 00:43:26,773 Just is no setup like that. 737 00:43:26,833 --> 00:43:28,883 for an airplane that is like mine. 738 00:43:29,793 --> 00:43:30,313 Um, 739 00:43:32,573 --> 00:43:35,293 so the reason you probably don't want a turbo. 740 00:43:35,633 --> 00:43:38,533 First of all, you do have additional cost. 741 00:43:40,003 --> 00:43:42,373 sometimes the purchase price is on the used market. 742 00:43:43,103 --> 00:43:44,903 Maybe roughly the same. 743 00:43:44,973 --> 00:43:49,453 However, you mentioned the maintenance before that's a big one. 744 00:43:49,873 --> 00:43:53,013 TBOs on, on turbo engines are shorter. 745 00:43:53,883 --> 00:43:55,583 you're going to be burning a lot more fuel. 746 00:43:55,643 --> 00:44:00,723 You know, I was just, looking at a particular route before, we started the 747 00:44:00,723 --> 00:44:03,013 show here, kind of one of my favorite. 748 00:44:03,503 --> 00:44:08,943 flights I've ever had in the Mooney, flew home from Santa Fe, New Mexico, 749 00:44:08,943 --> 00:44:10,393 all the way back to Wisconsin. 750 00:44:11,083 --> 00:44:14,573 and this is normally aspirated, out of Santa Fe, you kind of have to 751 00:44:14,573 --> 00:44:16,823 get up to 13, 000 feet for terrain. 752 00:44:17,563 --> 00:44:21,883 So I knew I had to climb that high anyway, but I, I had enough performance to do 753 00:44:21,883 --> 00:44:24,093 it despite being normally aspirated. 754 00:44:24,523 --> 00:44:27,273 And I just decided what the heck I'll stay up here. 755 00:44:27,313 --> 00:44:29,563 You know, there were some pretty decent tailwinds up higher. 756 00:44:29,563 --> 00:44:36,523 And so, I flew a, uh, You know, almost 900 mile leg, at 13, 000 feet. 757 00:44:37,403 --> 00:44:40,293 I was truing 172 knots on 10. 758 00:44:40,293 --> 00:44:41,903 1 gallons an hour. 759 00:44:41,993 --> 00:44:45,983 So I made it home from Santa Fe in 4 hours and 37 minutes, and 760 00:44:45,983 --> 00:44:47,653 I burned 53 gallons of fuel. 761 00:44:47,653 --> 00:44:48,843 Ha 762 00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:50,240 That's incredible. 763 00:44:50,540 --> 00:44:51,688 driving, you know, 764 00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:52,800 Yeah. 765 00:44:54,328 --> 00:44:57,318 and I decided to kind of look at, look at the performance charts 766 00:44:57,318 --> 00:45:02,488 and see how I, I fared against the performance charts for my airplane. 767 00:45:02,488 --> 00:45:06,518 And then also compare that to the performance charts on a Mooney Bravo, 768 00:45:06,548 --> 00:45:13,158 which is essentially the same airplane as mine, only turbocharged and the Bravo 769 00:45:13,578 --> 00:45:18,218 could have flown that leg, up higher. 770 00:45:18,843 --> 00:45:22,903 And it would have saved in a, you know, four and a half hour flight, it would 771 00:45:22,903 --> 00:45:27,713 have saved 21 minutes and it would have burned an extra 21 gallons of fuel. 772 00:45:29,383 --> 00:45:34,598 So, Is that, you know, even cheap fuel these days is, you know, 773 00:45:34,608 --> 00:45:36,348 generally around five bucks a gallon. 774 00:45:36,348 --> 00:45:39,428 So you're talking about an extra a hundred bucks to save 20 minutes. 775 00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:40,580 Yeah. 776 00:45:40,608 --> 00:45:44,658 that's on a, you know, that, that is a leg that a turbocharged airplane 777 00:45:44,658 --> 00:45:45,868 is going to do really well at. 778 00:45:46,598 --> 00:45:51,748 And so, yeah, there's some, definitely some additional fuel costs there. 779 00:45:52,658 --> 00:45:56,688 so definitely something to be aware of if you think you want a turbo. 780 00:45:57,388 --> 00:46:00,038 part, part of the reason it only saved 21 minutes is because of the 781 00:46:00,178 --> 00:46:03,078 there would have been some extra time, right, to climb to that higher 782 00:46:03,078 --> 00:46:05,398 altitude, where you're going slower. 783 00:46:05,628 --> 00:46:06,648 You're not in cruise yet. 784 00:46:07,038 --> 00:46:08,778 Although the climb was faster. 785 00:46:09,148 --> 00:46:09,848 With the turbo. 786 00:46:09,848 --> 00:46:12,528 So, or, or would be faster, I would say. 787 00:46:12,781 --> 00:46:16,331 So I actually looked at a few different altitudes and whether 788 00:46:16,331 --> 00:46:19,171 it was the same 13, 000 feet or, 789 00:46:19,988 --> 00:46:20,378 okay. 790 00:46:20,491 --> 00:46:27,081 I believe the, I have to look, I looked at, the optimum time and the optimum 791 00:46:27,081 --> 00:46:31,621 fuel burn, One of one, one of those was at 17, 000 and one of them was 792 00:46:31,621 --> 00:46:36,801 at 21, 000 and the result was pretty much the same at all three altitudes. 793 00:46:37,191 --> 00:46:41,071 today and the winds are pretty similar at all the altitudes today. 794 00:46:41,081 --> 00:46:46,841 So, obviously, you know, if you have a situation where the winds at 10, 000 795 00:46:46,841 --> 00:46:52,751 or knots tailwind and you know, you get up to 10, 000, 20 or 25, 000 and 796 00:46:52,751 --> 00:46:54,441 you've got a hundred knot tailwind. 797 00:46:54,451 --> 00:46:56,631 Well, you know, yeah. 798 00:46:56,981 --> 00:46:58,241 That day it's beneficial. 799 00:46:59,179 --> 00:47:00,839 that only works in one direction, right? 800 00:47:00,869 --> 00:47:01,399 If you're going the 801 00:47:01,741 --> 00:47:02,121 Right. 802 00:47:02,189 --> 00:47:04,889 day, that turbo is not doing you any good 803 00:47:05,711 --> 00:47:06,241 That's right. 804 00:47:06,369 --> 00:47:08,319 down low to get out of the headwinds anyway. 805 00:47:08,319 --> 00:47:08,649 Right. 806 00:47:09,131 --> 00:47:09,451 Yeah. 807 00:47:09,751 --> 00:47:10,119 so. 808 00:47:11,544 --> 00:47:14,294 You know, that's, that's one thing to consider is that, that, you know, 809 00:47:14,294 --> 00:47:17,654 the extra costs with fuel as well as the maintenance and the engine 810 00:47:17,654 --> 00:47:20,624 overhauls, potentially being earlier. 811 00:47:20,624 --> 00:47:20,824 And, 812 00:47:23,534 --> 00:47:27,854 the other thing is if you fly a lot of short legs, you know, I kind of, 813 00:47:27,874 --> 00:47:32,684 um, all over the board, I like to go on long trips in my airplane. 814 00:47:34,424 --> 00:47:38,999 you know, at least before the pandemic, I was doing usually about Four or 815 00:47:38,999 --> 00:47:45,889 five good, long, you know, thousand mile trips, one way thousand mile 816 00:47:45,889 --> 00:47:48,119 trips in the airplane every year. 817 00:47:50,369 --> 00:47:53,429 so that's when you start going, well, gee, you know, if I had a turbo, 818 00:47:53,429 --> 00:47:58,229 maybe I could knock off, know, a half hour, maybe even more if I 819 00:47:58,229 --> 00:48:01,729 can find some favorable winds, but 820 00:48:02,051 --> 00:48:06,771 Or, maybe even delete some of your stops, you know, if you're going fast enough. 821 00:48:06,771 --> 00:48:07,051 Yeah. 822 00:48:07,244 --> 00:48:11,524 stop is, is one of the biggest differences in speed you'll be able to find anywhere. 823 00:48:11,984 --> 00:48:16,124 so, you know, maybe if you want to get places fast, finding an airplane 824 00:48:16,124 --> 00:48:21,144 with really good range is as important as finding something that goes fast. 825 00:48:21,881 --> 00:48:22,111 Yeah. 826 00:48:22,111 --> 00:48:22,611 Good point. 827 00:48:23,634 --> 00:48:27,264 I can skip a fuel stop and you can't, I will beat you 828 00:48:28,241 --> 00:48:28,591 Yeah. 829 00:48:28,591 --> 00:48:29,421 Yeah. 830 00:48:29,421 --> 00:48:30,251 Interesting. 831 00:48:30,251 --> 00:48:35,231 Good things to be thinking about. 832 00:48:35,231 --> 00:48:36,061 Hmm. 833 00:48:36,369 --> 00:48:38,729 fuel for me is seven hours and 20 minutes. 834 00:48:39,579 --> 00:48:43,749 and so as long as I can manage to sit in the airplane for a long 835 00:48:43,749 --> 00:48:47,499 time, I can go places pretty quick. 836 00:48:47,969 --> 00:48:52,609 you know, I've, I've come back from the West coast in one day, um, a few times. 837 00:48:52,609 --> 00:48:56,649 And I think we actually talked about that before on one of the other episodes. 838 00:48:56,649 --> 00:48:58,269 But, anyway. 839 00:48:58,604 --> 00:49:03,674 The other thing I like to do, though, is I just like to fly around and go for 100 840 00:49:03,684 --> 00:49:08,234 hamburgers and, you know, once in a while I'll take the airplane when I go to visit 841 00:49:08,244 --> 00:49:14,324 my parents who are really like about 100 and I guess it's about 100 miles away. 842 00:49:17,619 --> 00:49:25,329 So I'm staying close enough on a lot of my legs the turbo would be a detriment 843 00:49:25,419 --> 00:49:31,049 on those legs because comparing, my airplane to the Bravo again, I'm 844 00:49:31,049 --> 00:49:33,749 actually faster below 10, 000 feet. 845 00:49:34,749 --> 00:49:38,939 you know, I don't have any restriction in my exhaust from a turbo peeing in there. 846 00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:42,504 it's not a huge difference, but It's there. 847 00:49:42,974 --> 00:49:46,664 so, you know, if, if both airplanes are at 10, 000 feet, it'll pretty 848 00:49:46,664 --> 00:49:48,624 much be a wash in terms of speed. 849 00:49:49,244 --> 00:49:49,964 cruise speed. 850 00:49:49,964 --> 00:49:54,214 That is, you know, the, the turbo will get up to 10, 000 a little 851 00:49:54,224 --> 00:49:58,524 faster, but you know, my climb rate below 10, 000 is really good too. 852 00:49:58,544 --> 00:50:04,984 So, really that turbo would only be advantageous to me 853 00:50:05,004 --> 00:50:08,234 if I was going up to 20 feet. 854 00:50:08,674 --> 00:50:11,444 And to do that, you have to be flying a long leg. 855 00:50:11,944 --> 00:50:15,294 I've kind of run a whole bunch of numbers trying to see what that looks like. 856 00:50:15,294 --> 00:50:18,034 And it seems like a good rule of thumb is that you want at least 857 00:50:18,044 --> 00:50:19,914 half of your flight to be in cruise. 858 00:50:21,474 --> 00:50:26,314 My airplane takes about, you know, down low or I'm developing lots of power. 859 00:50:26,694 --> 00:50:31,614 I figure it's taking me, eight miles per thousand feet just for climbing descent. 860 00:50:32,594 --> 00:50:37,354 Um, and so that means for every thousand feet I climb for the 861 00:50:37,354 --> 00:50:40,839 trip, I need to be going 16 miles. 862 00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:46,999 So on a 160 mile leg, then that means it would be a wash 863 00:50:47,009 --> 00:50:48,649 for me to have a turbo or not. 864 00:50:49,659 --> 00:50:52,809 So you really want to start getting an advantage from the turbo. 865 00:50:52,859 --> 00:50:58,459 You got to be going, you know, 300, 400 miles at a time, and then you start 866 00:50:58,459 --> 00:51:00,239 to see a speed advantage on the turbo. 867 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,149 And I just fly enough legs that are shorter than that. 868 00:51:04,429 --> 00:51:06,669 It just, Doesn't make as much sense. 869 00:51:07,099 --> 00:51:11,609 So about what your, what your missions are and all that. 870 00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:15,569 for me also, I've just kind of found that I really don't like breathing oxygen. 871 00:51:15,569 --> 00:51:17,669 It really drives me out in a hurry. 872 00:51:18,119 --> 00:51:23,844 you know, you maybe as a. Arizona native where the air just is that way might 873 00:51:23,844 --> 00:51:25,264 be a little bit different for you. 874 00:51:25,674 --> 00:51:29,654 Um, you know, that's another thing that people should maybe try before 875 00:51:29,654 --> 00:51:32,744 they go and buy an airplane that they think they're going to fly up there. 876 00:51:33,104 --> 00:51:36,874 I've just found it highly unpleasant after about a half hour, an hour 877 00:51:37,314 --> 00:51:41,869 on oxygen, you know, my sinuses are just burning because there is 878 00:51:42,179 --> 00:51:44,729 zero moisture in that oxygen tank. 879 00:51:44,739 --> 00:51:46,009 So, but 880 00:51:46,346 --> 00:51:47,066 Yeah, I 881 00:51:47,299 --> 00:51:49,279 that's, just a few things to think about. 882 00:51:49,279 --> 00:51:49,509 And, 883 00:51:50,582 --> 00:51:52,462 I think you did a good job covering all of it. 884 00:51:52,462 --> 00:51:54,282 Pros, cons, things to think about. 885 00:51:54,312 --> 00:51:54,732 Love it. 886 00:51:55,442 --> 00:51:57,942 Um, any last things you can think of? 887 00:51:59,225 --> 00:51:59,725 Nope. 888 00:51:59,795 --> 00:52:00,135 Nope. 889 00:52:00,165 --> 00:52:01,835 I think we beat this horse to death. 890 00:52:02,722 --> 00:52:03,352 All right. 891 00:52:03,952 --> 00:52:04,472 Excellent. 892 00:52:04,732 --> 00:52:06,982 Well, thanks again, everyone for watching. 893 00:52:07,135 --> 00:52:08,935 in the recording of this episode. 894 00:52:12,087 --> 00:52:14,837 Thanks everyone for again, watching and listening. 895 00:52:14,837 --> 00:52:19,397 And we always want to hear from you, if there's any disagreements or, any 896 00:52:19,397 --> 00:52:21,487 things we missed, let us know about it. 897 00:52:21,497 --> 00:52:25,867 We'd love to hear your turbo stories, things that you like about it and so on. 898 00:52:25,867 --> 00:52:26,777 So let us know. 899 00:52:27,097 --> 00:52:30,886 You can always reach out to us, on the contact page on the website, 900 00:52:30,886 --> 00:52:32,389 which is at studentpilotcast. 901 00:52:32,389 --> 00:52:32,765 com. 902 00:52:33,415 --> 00:52:36,405 Or you can send an email easily to Bill at StudentPilotCast. 903 00:52:36,405 --> 00:52:37,805 com and that'll get to both of us. 904 00:52:38,735 --> 00:52:43,495 And, with that, we'll end this one for now and, hope you have a, a 905 00:52:43,495 --> 00:52:47,745 great time in your turbo or your normally aspirated engine airplane. 906 00:52:48,715 --> 00:52:49,755 So keep it flying. 907 00:52:49,935 --> 00:52:50,805 We'll see you later, Kent. 908 00:52:51,578 --> 00:52:52,008 See ya.