E081 - Am I The Narcissist? Why You're Feeling Selfish In Your Relationship

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[00:00:00] By the end of today's episode, you will understand why not all selfishness is narcissism and how to tell the difference.

Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in. ​

I have to be honest with you, I used to think that choosing myself over what someone else wanted or needed was selfish and bad,

Especially after my narcissistic relationship where I actually thought I was the narcissist if I had one thought that didn't involve, or center around someone else.

So I wanna share this episode with you to really clarify what selfish means and how to be selfish in a way that actually benefits every single person in your life, including you. So in this episode, you'll discover the key differences between [00:01:00] selfishness and narcissism so that you can stop second guessing yourself.

You will learn how to rediscover your needs and identity after years of focusing on others first. And you will discover how to make these small shifts that will help you build your confidence and momentum to make bigger changes.

This conversation that I'm having today is with a woman named Michelle Bishop. She is a master certified life coach and author of Choose You. First, and we are talking all about what it means to be selfish in a positive way, and how to start finding yourself again after these narcissistic relationships where you've really felt like you have had your entire identity stripped away and you don't know who you are anymore.

It's an amazing conversation and be sure to stick around fully to the end of the episode where we will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a message that you can use this week as you stay more centered in your healing.

Bre Wolta: Welcome to the podcast [00:02:00] Michelle.

Michelle Bishop: Thank you, Brie. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Bre Wolta: I am too, and I wanna dive straight in because this topic is an important one. We wanna really unpack what being selfish in relationships mean and why. In fact, we as empathetic, caretaking women need to be a little bit more selfish in relationships. So tell us, Michelle, what, what is your take on selfishness?

Michelle Bishop: Well, that's a big word, selfishness and. It's really interesting because it's about the actions and the intent of the action of what selfishness is. Where is it being directed and is it a positive or a negative? Most actions typically are a neutral action, but in our own head we have this racket and we say, Hey, you know, this is [00:03:00] selfish.

So. What I am trying to ensure people is that knowing that selfishness does not have to mean that you are selfish or have a negative intent, but truly the essence of being selfish for your own health and wellbeing can be a blessing. Selflessness because if you're utilizing that time and establishing boundaries and growing and nourishing then it allows you to fill your own tank so that you can give so much more to the people that you love or your friends or your business.

And so it. It really, it does not have to be a negative connotation. It just really can like lift you up.

Bre Wolta: Yeah, I really [00:04:00] kind of see this reframe as just equalizing the amount of energy that we're giving to ourselves and to other people, because myself included, and the, the women that I work with and the listeners of this podcast are probably on the, the overextending, caretaking side of, of, uh, personality, right.

Michelle Bishop: would say that's, that's an easy way to do it, isn't it?

Bre Wolta: Yeah. And we're so accustomed to taking care of other people, making sure everyone else is okay, getting everyone else's needs met, and sometimes that is just what we've grown up doing. So we don't know any different. So when we start to give some of that energy back to ourselves, we're like, oh my gosh, I'm being selfish.

I can't take time outta my day to go to the gym and leave my child. I can't take time to go. On a trip with my girlfriends to recharge and, you know, leave my life back at home. And we see it as this, this [00:05:00] sacrifice almost that we have to, we have to sacrifice our sacrifice, our needs, in order to keep everything functioning, which is an unhealthy dynamic in a relationship.

Michelle Bishop: It is, um, I do agree with you that the really. Bad thing about when you choose you first, and it comes that people, I. Then we'll judge the, you know, we're, we're concerned about the judgment associated, or you might have the perception of having a friend that has got all these balls up in the air and, you know, she's the perfect mother.

She gets to exercise and she's, uh, working and she, her husband and she's done this and done that. that says that they live in that perfection, you're not really seeing what real [00:06:00] life is we have these judgments in our own racket, that we tell our own stories to ourselves and those voices. So we're not gonna share it with anyone. We're just gonna give the perception that all is well, but in the interim, for us not caring for ourselves, we end up literally draining the tank. And then you reach a point that you're at, you can have illness, exhaustion, depression.

It will always manifest itself in some way. Because you are not giving yourself enough nutrients. Emotionally, physically, mentally, that you need, which is not selfish. That is actually selflessness.

Bre Wolta: It's that, that old adage, right, we can't pour from an empty cup. And if we want to love others in our life to the [00:07:00] best of our, our capacity, we need to have things in our cup to give, which, which means we need to add things in our cup for ourselves. And like coming back to even, you know. Me wanting to show up the best that I can for the people in my life means me being resourced, because otherwise I'm just living in the sympathetic nervous system, in the chaos, in the, in the like panic in my body, right?

Trying to get everything done for everybody and it's not serving them, and it's not serving me. And we. We really need to work on that. We, listeners, we all need to work on like remembering.

Michelle Bishop: I was gonna like, we're all part of it. So, I mean, it's, it's a daily journey. It's a daily step. It's a daily walk. It's not about the destination. You get to enjoy the journey and accepting, and that means that you have [00:08:00] to establish. Firm boundaries of for yourself and really hold yourself accountable.

'cause no one else is gonna do that because they don't know what's going on in your head. And so only you are the one that has complete control and power to allow that to happen for yourself, which is. Wonderful. And then you fog out and you light up and everybody's like, what have you done different? Did you get your hair cut?

Did you go? And you know, it's like, no, I'm actually breathing for the first time.

Bre Wolta: Yeah.

Michelle Bishop: Or I had a decent night's sleep because I didn't rerate in my head over and over and over the things I didn't accomplish during the day and what I've gotta do for tomorrow. So it's just like give yourself grace and understand by caring for [00:09:00] yourself, you're caring more for the others

Bre Wolta: Hmm.

Michelle Bishop: And they want that.

Bre Wolta: yeah, that's the goal, right? That's our, our ultimate goal. Um, it makes me think of something that just escaped my brain. It'll come, it'll come back to me. Um, this is layered, right? Like in order to. Choose ourselves. We have to first know what we need or we have to set boundaries. But to set boundaries, we have to first know what we need, and oftentimes we haven't taken the time or given ourselves enough space to be still and figure out what the hell we actually need.

I know when I was coming out of my toxic relationship, I was. At this point where I'm like, I don't even know what I like. I don't even know what I want. I don't even know what I, I don't needs. Were like, what a foreign concept. And so I've created actually a, a self-guided course for women called Find Yourself Again, because we have to start there.

It's like. Who are you? What do you like? What do [00:10:00] you dislike? What do you value? What do you need? What do you want? These like very rudimentary things that I think we skip over a lot of time and just assume that we'll come up with that answer at some point, or we'll find the person that will tell us what we need and what we like,

Michelle Bishop: As young children. Uh. We are told what to do, we're told, we're given these already established boundaries, , you know, let get in the kitchen or, you know, vacuum or whatever it may be. Oh, read your book or, so we're given this instruction and we're placed in this mold. And when we come out of that a little bit than our parents or the people around us, there's a direct negative.

Reinforcement. Like, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't be that way. So, , to really be in a place of self discovery, and I'm even thinking back in teenage years, I mean. [00:11:00] Your frontal lobe isn't created, you're hormonal, you know, so I mean, it's created, but it's not fully created. And so we are not in a position of choice or empowerment.

We're just kind of living an existing in whatever is your established environment. So. When, and then all of a sudden you come out of the adolescence and you're in your twenties and depending upon what path you're taking, you're in the workforce or you're married, or you have a serious boyfriend, or you have children.

There's so many options and you're on that roller coaster of life and simply survival and, and you know, and so you're never taking that time to truly. Take what you were saying with your course. You know, who am I, what do I like, and know that that is something that has to be done and [00:12:00] inventoried. On a regular basis, we shift, we change, and to be able to embrace that, and I'm a very big proponent in not taking these huge leaps and bounds outside of where you're at in that point, it's like a crash diet. But what happens is that it's not sustainable

Bre Wolta: Yeah.

Michelle Bishop: and then all of a sudden it's not a lifestyle. It, and then you gain weight plus. And I am saying that not from a glass house.

Been there. You know, I totally, but I didn't know who I was and I was listening to others to give me the answer. So establishing that as your foundation is so imperative, people might consider that selfish. Is that selfish? Absolutely. Positively not. You are [00:13:00] finding out who you are so that you can be the best for the others around you.

The best partner, establishing boundaries what you want for yourself in life and that allows the others to see you just absolutely glowing. And it's so easy 'cause you're not putting on these masks of what you have been putting on for all these years. 'cause you haven't taken that time out to figure it out.

Bre Wolta: Yeah. Ugh. And, and another piece to this that totally fucks us up is like, especially the. Millennials and, backward, like the older generations. We very much grew up in that like good girl culture, right? It is like when we are convenient, being convenient for other people, when we're calm, when we're, have our hair, perfect, when we're, you know, showing up as the the trophy wife or whatever, right.

We're we are. We are the good girl. We are the good wife, we are the good whatever. And that's the message [00:14:00] that's just been indoctrinated into us. And so we think on some level that doing anything that's not, that will also be inconveniencing other people, which then adds a other layer of guilt, right? It's like not only do I not know what I need, but.

What if the thing that I need inconveniences my partner or my mom or my friend or whoever, I don't want inconvenience. It's like we're kind of in this hole of the societal pressure as being a woman on top of having lost ourselves along the way and like, just like inching our way back up to the surface of, oh, hey, it's, it's like pretty great up here when we're not under all of this darkness.

Michelle Bishop: That is why I encourage people. That want this shift in their life to just make small pivots of change because, and get solid in it and relish in it. Be proud [00:15:00] of yourself, just because people might be, and I'm gonna tell you, it's difficult. You will lose people that. Maybe aren't in your new place in your life. That's part of growing it's chapters.

I think about even, you know, if everyone kind of goes back through their lives as children, the the likelihood of you having your first grade best friend. When you're 59 years old and that you're talking and integrated every single day in one's life, I would say if we dug into it, the percentage of that would be pretty microscopic.

Bre Wolta: Yeah.

Michelle Bishop: And why is that? Because we change, we evolve, and that happens throughout our whole lifetime. So don't live in fear of loss. Live in the joy of moving forward

And, and, and that's okay that people don't come along with you. You're [00:16:00] gonna meet new people that are on your same space.

And what it's a, it's a wonderful, um, self committed joy that you have with your. Your people, you know, our community of women supporting women as well as men actually supporting women in that space. It's just, we've got to stand up for ourselves first. If, if, you know, and that doesn't happen, or like, oh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna rock the boot, let's not rock the.

Bre Wolta: Uh, yep. Yeah. Women listening to this podcast are very much on that journey of wanting to feel more confident, wanting to take up space, and just not maybe quite knowing how. So let's, let's bring this into a tangible, I. Nugget for people. What does that look like? Like, and you can pull from your own experience or maybe that of your clients, of [00:17:00] somebody who just took that one little, like 1% change in their life to choose themselves one day and how that can compound and really lead to a bigger change long term.

Michelle Bishop: The, uh, first thing that I think that is most important. Is you have to make that decision for yourself and be really firm and solid in that, then you must be in a safe environment. Physically, emotionally?

Mentally a safe environment before you make any decisions on, on that, and then make that a priority of change. One must be safe.

Bre Wolta: Yeah.

Michelle Bishop: And so that could be a really big, uh, dynamic. In fact, I was having a, um, [00:18:00] conversation. With someone, just the other, uh, day about being in a rut and stuck in the rut. I'm from Tennessee and so I know what ruts are. I'm originally from Florida, so I would never know what a rut was and, and what a rutt is typically so I can explain to the listeners is it's a good muck. Of mud or wet grass that literally as you put the tire in, gets stuck into this rut and then it leaves marks. So then it's really mucky if you step into a rut. You have to either move very quickly through the rut, which means you're gonna miss the whole journey and you're gonna end up falling [00:19:00] because that's what ruts do. Or, or you make a choice to not go into the rut because the only way to get out of the rut is for you to literally make a dramatic. Move, meaning move your foot out of the boot and get out of the rut.

That's not a small pivot. That's huge.

Bre Wolta: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Bishop: So by reframing it as not a rut, but an actual box that you're putting yourself in, what it allows you to do mentally. Is to still recognize this is my space that I'm stuck in. But by having a at least a box, it still then will allow you to make some small pivots of change. And in that pivot of change, what I have found [00:20:00] is first start with a deep breath. Nobody has to know about that. You know about it.

Bre Wolta: Yeah.

Michelle Bishop: you can create your own, you know, happiness and proud pat yourself. Give yourself like, yeah, I did it. I'm like, kids, were crying. Or, you know, I was in a yelling match, or my report for the business just got deleted off my computer and I just spent so much time.

First, just take a simple breath and sometimes you need to do it for a little longer. That's okay. But it allows you growth and then you've still moved within your box of that small change till you get more comfortable, uh, making more changes so that you kind of push outside the box a little bit and you can always go back to the box and learn and then make the choice [00:21:00] again.

So it gives you a little bit more mobi mobility to, to incorporate change.

Bre Wolta: I love that the, the reminder that something as simple as stopping to take a breath is so powerful. I'll give a personal, uh, story here because I just had a, a child. I just had a baby girl, and she, it takes up a lot of space in our life right now, and her demands kind of dictate our timing and what we get to do or what we don't get to do.

Right. And over the last 12 weeks. I have not been meditating and I was in a very, like every morning I was in this really great cadence during pregnancy and before I was sitting with myself getting really still, you know, I, I was very privileged to have that time. That was uninterrupted. And I went 12 weeks with forgetting that I could stop and breathe, right?

And it just like occurred to me one day and I'm like, oh, I have these tools that I have not been using. And I was holding her [00:22:00] while she was having her experience of crying and just. Took some breaths and tried to come back into self. Even in that moment, right? Even in the moment that I would've said, oh, I don't, this isn't gonna work.

I don't have time to like light the candles and the sage and all the things. It was like, no, I'm doing this. I'm taking the breath right now. And it felt revolutionary to me because even somebody who practices, you know, who preaches this to my clients, to myself, I still forget. And so to come back into that, the, the simplest thing, the breath, it takes, no, you don't need anything.

You don't need any money. You don't have to carve out time for it. It's just always there. And that, I think we need like the evidence that we can show up for ourselves over and over and over again to build that confidence to move on to the bigger things. Right. To then step like. Closer towards the front of the box and then eventually out of the door of the box and like, into the different, um, decision.

But [00:23:00] yeah, it's, it's a journey. It's always a journey to come back to yourself into choosing yourself.

Michelle Bishop: I love that. That is a great, great story because we all experiencing that every day in all the movements, and the first thing that we do and recognize consciously when we wake up is we take a breath. It's the first breath you take that you're conscious, like you're, oh, I'm taking a breath. I suffered, uh, in years past from, real big panic attacks and anxiety and the use of breath.

Now is just like automatic, like I don't even think about it. And I've always used a mantra when I breathe in through my nose that I'm breathing in life ' cause it is life. And then I hold that life inside me [00:24:00] for a little bit and then I let go very gently through my mouth and allow to say. Release all that doesn't serve me.

Bre Wolta: Hmm.

Michelle Bishop: And so it's a cleansing process for me, especially in moments of being overwhelmed and I do it so. Automatically, it's not even like I'm thinking about it. So that's like a small step and you don't have to be dramatic about it and you're speaking in your head. Sometimes I speak out loud and sometimes 10 seconds doesn't do it for me.

You know, I need a little longer.

Bre Wolta: Yeah. It really is that, that quick way into mindfulness, right? When we're taking a breath, we are very. Aware of breathing in and breathing out. And you, for anybody who's, you know, if you're walking your dog right now or if you're driving your car or you're doing dishes, it's like, I can do all of those things and still [00:25:00] be mindful about the breath and physi physiologically when we exhale.

For a longer period of time, we're activating the parasympathetic nervous system, which is our rest and digest, which is signaling to our body that we're safe. Because when we are in fight or flight or the sympathetic nervous system, we're, we're breathing, we're really shallow, and we're up like this, and we're running around and we're panicking and we're signaling that we're not safe.

It's okay to be in the sympathetic, you know, to go in, but we wanna come back out of that. We don't wanna live up in that space. So it's like. So stupid simple, right? Like come back to the, so I want listeners to hear that, really take that away from this, this conversation. You can start with just intending to breathe intentionally for yourself.

What would be another thing if someone is like, ready to add in another piece of choosing themselves? What would you encourage them to do next? After the, after the breath?

Michelle Bishop: Uh, [00:26:00] it is very important for one to be mentally. In a good space. And that is a challenge in many cases, and I think that it is very important for everyone to recognize that we do have excellent resources here in the United States. We have. Nonprofit organizations for people that don't have an opportunity to financially find the right coaching.

There's sponsorships that happen. You may have internet, you have the library, the public library. You have churches, you have organizations, because it's not one size fits all. And they can work in conjunction and they can work not in conjunction, and you can just make it as part of your [00:27:00] intent of wellbeing.

And that is, that's really where I started is. I've always been a very spiritual person and I respect everyone's right of faith, regardless of what it is that they shall practice. I happen to practice in faith Christianity, and I've had that faith that has held me on my whole entire life, and I'm grateful because I see so many people lost.

Without that simple feeling of being supported and it's, it's really, it's a blind, it, it, you know, it's a blind commitment to yourself to say, Hey, I'm going to faithfully believe that there is. God, or there is this that loves me and wants me to [00:28:00] survive and thrive through whatever challenges that I'm going through.

So the, it's really maximizing saying, okay, I need to get my head straight.

Bre Wolta: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Bishop: your head is not straight, guess what? I do not think that you can physically. Make the body do anything if you don't start there.

Bre Wolta: Yeah. I think also having some sort of thing that you believe in, whether it's God or the universe or spirit or nature, or you know, whatever it is that helps you feel not alone is so important to take that pressure off of your shoulders, that you have to hold everything up. I know for me, I didn't, I didn't grow up religious.

I didn't grow up in church. I didn't grow up practicing knowing that there was anything beyond myself, and I felt like then I had to take care of everything. So when I came into spirituality later in my life, my adult life, it was like, [00:29:00] oh, okay, there's maybe something else holding me so that I don't have to try to micromanage every single tiny little thing.

And it was so relieving, and to your point about like bringing the mind back in, it helped open up some space to u utilize my mind in a different way. So I, I really, really love that. So for listeners, take your breath, get your mind in a place that's feels more aligned with self energy, with higher energy, whatever that looks like for you.

Michelle Bishop: Absolutely.

Bre Wolta: Oh, Michelle. Well, to end these episodes, I always pull an Oracle card to offer a message for listeners if they're just wondering what the, what the energy is, what the universe, has in store for them today. So I'd love your help in choosing the card if you are up for that.

Michelle Bishop: I am absolutely up for it, and I have to tell you my heart and my belief in that energy for everyone is a thousand percent in it.

Bre Wolta: Love it. Love it. Okay, Michelle, [00:30:00] I'll have you close your eyes and just take, take the breath that we've been talking about and you and I are just gonna tune into the deck. I'm starting to shuffle the cards and just asking what the listeners need to hear today. Whenever you feel like the shuffle's complete, you let me know when to stop.

Michelle Bishop: Now.

Bre Wolta: Okay, we got, lay it down. The card has a picture of, looks like a bug laying down a big rock perhaps, or I don't, I. It's unclear but laying something down. Okay, so here's what it says. You've been carrying your shit for too long. It's time to lay it down. What started as a simple, generous act of carrying someone else's load has snowballed into the boulder that weighs you down.

Maybe you are so used to it that you think you love it or that it connects to you, your connects you to your identity, or that would, or that it was always yours to hold. Allow yourself to remember that the burden you [00:31:00] bear is no longer serving you. Lay it down, let it roll away. You might even miss it initially, or look around for it.

Lay it down. Feel the relief as you step forward in lightness and freedom, knowing that you only need to carry what you are willing to hold.

Michelle Bishop: I love that.

Bre Wolta: could it be more perfect?

Michelle Bishop: I know.

Bre Wolta: I love the cards because they always, it always happens like that. It's just like the exact. Message that we've been talking about or that you need to hear, and you're like, oh yeah.

It's like that waking back up, remembering, right?

Michelle Bishop: Sure.

Bre Wolta: Yeah. Well, tell the listeners where they can find you, what have you, what do you have going on for them?

Michelle Bishop: Well, um, the best way to find me would be at my website, which is Bishop. life.com and along there it has links. I have blogs and newsletters and updates and I am certainly have links to get to my Instagram, but you can certainly search me at Michelle Bishop [00:32:00] Life on Instagram and Facebook. And I will be doing a lot more things.

We've got, I did, I am an author, so my uh, book is on Amazon. It is Choose You First Certainly. And it, like I said, if you'd like to go to the website, it'll give you a direct link so you have to. Do a bunch of searching. We like to keep everything as simple as possible, ladies, you know, uh, and just do a link there.

But it is a raw story about my life and the lessons that I've been learned through, um, those experiences as well as incorporating, a lot of educational information that I've gained through being a certified master life coach. And I will be doing. Speaking engagements and I just look forward to hearing and growing this community together.

'cause you have to be clear that you want that for yourself. And I wanna help everybody get there.

Bre Wolta: Aw. Well, you're such a [00:33:00] light in this world, Michelle, and thank you for your wisdom. I really encourage women to, to check out what you have going on, and can't wait to see where all of the, the paths take you for, for your next, your next step.

Michelle Bishop: Well, I'm glad I'm here with you 'cause we get to stay together, you know? Isn't that the greatest thing? You

Bre Wolta: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, thank you so much, Michelle.

Michelle Bishop: Thank you.

​

Michelle and I hit on some super important concepts today. So let's review from this episode. You have learned the key differences between selfishness and narcissism so that you can stop second guessing yourself. You have learned how to rediscover your needs and identity after years of putting other people first,

and you have discovered how to make these small shifts that really build your confidence and momentum towards making bigger shifts in your life.

So, so much is a possible for you. I am here for you and cheering you on. And if you need someplace to start, I have that self-guided course that I mentioned in the beginning of [00:34:00] the episode called Find Yourself. Again,

this is a super accessible place to start if you're not really sure where to start. This self-guided course is going to help you rediscover who you are. And it's gonna help you refocus your needs, your wants, and your values so that you can start putting yourself first and do all of the things that we talked about in this episode to really positively affect all of your relationships currently, even with friends and family and your future.

Love relationships as well. The link to that course find yourself again is in the show notes. If you use Code Podcast 10, you will get 10% off and that full course is under a hundred dollars. So this is a beautiful place to start. As always, I am here for you. You are not alone, and I will see you in the next episode.