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You're listening to the Master Passive Income Podcast Network.

Welcome to the Passive Income Life Podcast.

We're breaking down the mindset, strategies and actions to break you out of financial dependence of your job or business, and into the life of financial independence where you choose how you get to spend each day.

So live on four weeks of vacation per year or flip the script and live on 48 weeks of living per year.

What you going to do?

What you going to do?

Welcome to the Passive Income Life show.

Where we guide you to a seven figure income with a special focus on making passive income so you can live the dream life.

And now here's your host, Zach Zimmer.

All right, so today with my new burgeoning friendship with Zach Hoyt, so excited to have him on.

And you guys are gonna hear as we really get to know each other in a more formal way as we've just met at some events and heard each other speak at some real estate events.

But this will be the first time of a real, in depth, one on one conversation.

So you're gonna hear us learn a lot about each other and figuring out where this conversation goes.

So, Zach, excited to have you on today.

Right on, man.

Appreciate all of this and yeah, you said it the same way.

Looking to learn more about you and gosh, share anything with anyone that can help them grow in the world and get over something that's always awesome.

Yeah.

And we, you know, I became aware of you.

I don't know, I think we met a couple years ago, but you 10, you're about what, 35, 45 minutes north.

I'm here in Uniontown.

I'm in talent.

Oh, so you know, you're only 25 minutes away or something.

Yeah, you could, you could run.

I don't know how much you can run, but I could run to you.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, that's crazy that we haven't become, you know, I don't know, just aware or familiar or friends because, yeah, I mean, I've been hanging out with a group around here for six, seven years and you should be in that group because you, from what I've, you know, in our, our brief interactions, you're a guy that I see as leaning in, leaning forward, I believe, you know, they, they have that term in, you know, not just your, your business.

Right.

But in your, your fitness and then just an outgoing, purpose driven life.

And yeah, those are the guys that I want to be around.

Right.

You're a refle.

Five people you spend your time with.

And, and I know some guys that are, are crushing it in business.

But you know, some of these other things, right.

Are not even on their radar.

Their health and fitness or you know, purpose driven work and, and excitement.

So that's why I'm real excited to, to get into this conversation.

That's cool, man.

Yeah, I, you know, the fun thing about real estate is that you don't need to get out there into the world to be successful.

You can be just in your little box and, and be wildly successful.

And so yeah, for the a 50, 50 entre, like extrovert, introvert type of person.

Both of them drain me, Both of them excite me.

And so I need both of them.

But I am content for the most part just hanging out with my little family and doing fun things in nature.

And so I'll pop my head out for a little bit, say hi to everyone, wave my arms around and then like, you know, chill and go back to things.

But yet really, you know, you say you've been in that the last seven years or so.

These last, these last.

Gosh, I've been doing this for two decades now.

In these last four years has really been a revamping for me, a reflection time to figure out some certain things that I learned from the decade previous of where to get into.

So it's been a lot of self reflection and you know, to your point, yeah, you're the result of those five people, the average of those five people and all the dimensions around you.

I want to be around awesome people that, that don't just care about money, that care about lots of other things and, and have those conversations about mindfulness and working out and your family and spending more time and working less and, and how to do that efficiently.

And yeah, that's why I just started really being intentional about setting like this up right here and, and meeting more people that are in here.

Kind awesome people.

Yeah, yeah.

So let's go back.

You know, I want to hear your kind of upbringing and story.

Everybody's heard mine.

But then I'll provide some feedback on mine so you can understand like how, where we're at and you know, I want to talk about these, these expensive pieces of paper I see in the background that you've got there.

So understanding that I, I have some of the same but minor down here in the bottom of the cabinet.

I don't know, I, I think I hung them two houses ago in the office as something I was excited about.

And then eventually I was like, no, I mean I think I like my.

I don't know if you can see the title deed of Boardwalk.

Yep.

Monopoly piece.

And my favorite game growing up, man.

This was my Father's Day present last year, so.

The Lord.

Lord of the land.

Zach, dude, y attorney, my good friend.

He has Lord Byron just like that.

And me up here, you probably.

You can't see this, but.

Yeah, I own some property in Scotland, so I am officially a lord.

We're going there in July.

Dude.

What are you and your wife doing?

We have the whole thing planned out.

Any couples are invited?

Well, we'll talk about it.

That's fun, too.

Okay.

Yeah, no, that's.

That's real interesting.

Yeah.

You say, yeah, these expensive pieces of paper.

That's literally what I always tell people is I.

I used to.

I always collect expensive pieces of paper.

It used to be degrees, and now it's deeds.

And a lot more fun that way.

Right.

But, yeah, paid.

Paid a decent amount of money for them.

At least they can look pretty on the wall.

Yeah.

So talk to me about how you got to that point of going to those degrees.

Were you always from Ohio Upbringing, Parents?

So, yeah, getting into that.

What?

I grew up upstate New York.

Small town.

We had more fish than people.

We'd have tons of snow this time of year.

Three feet of snow in a day.

It was kind of common and cool.

When you're eight years old and the snow is as tall as you.

Sucks as an adult.

So moved out of there to get my degree in engineering.

But, gosh, I started out.

So I've been an entrepreneur my whole freaking life.

We didn't have money growing up, but what my parents did have was tons of love.

They're from that hippie generation.

They taught me to love people, hug trees, and do good in this world.

So that's why you tend to see me usually smiling and, you know, you.

Hopefully you don't hear anything bad about me out there because I just like to put lots of good happiness.

But, yeah, so I wanted to get something like a Nintendo.

I went to Toys R Us when we were 8.

I wanted to get a Nintendo.

My parents said, we didn't have enough money for the Nintendo.

I said, well, what the heck?

So the issue is money.

They're like, yeah, we just don't have money.

Maybe at Christmas, right?

Christmas was always the time that we could get something growing up.

But I said, oh, so money's the issue.

I said, well, what if I made money?

Could I buy it?

Then they look back at me in the backseat of the car and they say, sure, sure, you can go and buy it and so I said, darn it, then how many ways can I start making money?

And so at the age of eight, I got a tax number, a dba and I started doing official business.

And then my first quarter I got dinged by the IRS because I didn't know how to file my quarterly taxes and they were going to find me 50 bucks and I had to write them a little letter that says, please don't find me, I'm eight years old.

And they, they ended up eroding that, which was kind.

But yeah.

Got my first degree when I was 15 in computers.

Started a business doing that.

Went to school thinking computer would be cool engineering.

So back.

You got a degree when you're 15?

Yeah, I started when I was 13.

It was one of those you do you ever see those?

You might, you might be the same age where you would see them on tv like get your degree with Sally.

Sally Summers.

You can get in this.

You can get in this.

You can get in this.

I got it in PC repair.

So I knew computers in and out.

I've built hundreds of computers for like my local town.

I was, I was working for, starting my own company with local business.

I mean just like whatever.

So my parents would always invest in me.

That's the thing is it wasn't my money they would invest in me.

And so I, I love them to death for all that they've always, always invested.

But yeah, got a degree.

So I know computers enough to know that I hate them in general.

Right.

They're a pain when they don't work.

They're a pain, yes.

So that's why I've got a chief technology officer so that I don't have to deal with that anymore.

Yeah.

But yeah, gosh, played football, went to school on a football and academic scholarship in upstate New York or Rochester.

Got a degree in optics, which is the physics of.

And then started working on the world's most powerful laser system and helped build that.

We've got the world's most powerful yet indoor like football field size, clean room, laser goggles, bunny suit, everything.

And I'm fresh out of school and what, 20, 22 years old at that point and I'm helping run this, this thing, this, this crazy thing, this million dollar thing that had to work, that didn't work.

And it had over 500 pieces and I was put in charge of it.

And the chief mechanical engineer said, oh, we got a new scapegoat for the project right now.

I literally had to go home and Google there wasn't even Google at the time.

But I had to, like, look up what does that mean?

To make sure that I knew how he was insulting me fully.

He was a jerk in general, right.

But lit a fire under my butt and got an engineering degree, did that, and then realized that I didn't want to do that forever and went back to school for architecture, Came here with a woman that I went through and put through med school, came to Ohio and went to Kent for architecture.

A couple architecture degrees and an MBA to round it all out.

Because why not?

And, you know, we got married and then got divorced about a year and a half later.

And I'm going to tell you that the divorce is the best thing that ever happened to me.

In hindsight.

Yeah, right.

Sure.

It was rough at the time.

God, devastating at the time.

I mean, and it was crazy because I was going through architecture, which was the least amount of sleep I ever got in my life.

I thought like, living like a W2 job would prepare me for what that would entail, but it was.

It was brutal and.

But it really is my own self that was putting me through that.

That, that perfectionism in me had to just go away.

But yeah, the creative side, the engineering side, doing all of that.

But yeah, that whole thing ended up changing.

When I said, I went.

I went to a coffee shop.

I remember after we, we were separated at the time, I went to a coffee shop and I said, screw this.

You're not going to be sad, right?

You're not going to be sad.

Don't be sad.

Write down all the things that you want to do.

Your bucket list in your life.

And that's inspiring.

That, that got me going.

I'm Googling like, all right, what's other people's bucket list?

Because, you know, lie, cheat, copy your way to whatever to get things done.

It's faster.

Hello, Chat GPT.

But yeah, so I put on there things like skydiving, learning to play the guitar, scuba diving.

Gosh.

And then I saw a lot of people put running a marathon.

I googled how long is a marathon?

I said, oh, shoot, 26.2 miles is pretty darn long.

I'm like, half marathon.

Cool.

It's at least, you know, less.

But put it on there anyway because fitness is always something, you know, you, You're.

It's your body.

This is our vessel.

So, you know, let's.

Let's make it awesome.

But then quickly after there, I ended up finding a friend of mine because I, I found that I had that bucket list.

I talked to her and she's like, oh, no, you can run a marathon.

You know, they have plans online.

This is how you go from couch to marathon in whatever.

And so I did that summer, I went from running two miles because, you know, football, we just go from here to the wall and that's it.

And then you get your breath.

But yeah, from two miles to a full marathon in less than four months.

Ran it just doing it myself, like on those trails, putting on in that.

That time for all of that.

And it' just, you know, it's over 50 mental.

And that's.

That's some of the best things came out of that.

The, like my active meditation.

Running is for me now, you know, where people will sit and they'll meditate and they'll get to another state of thinking.

That's what running is for me.

Kind of like that runner's high.

You might hear from people.

You get into that state and it's just crazy things happen.

Your subconscious is so much more powerful and fast than you can consciously think about things.

And that's.

That's why I love running, is I'll work out problems.

So running helped me through my divorce, but because of that, too, I also had to figure out, all right, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.

I started my own architecture design firm.

And I say, this sucks working for other people all the time.

It doesn't matter how much money I make per hour.

And to the day.

I don't like being paid by the hour.

Sucks because it's capped, right?

Because we only have so many hours a day.

And if you're only working to your point, four weeks in a year, man, you got to make some darn good money per hour.

And so now someone has to.

You got to bill that to someone.

Good luck.

Make your own money.

Different way.

Exponential ways.

But, yeah, just tons of fun.

I found real estate.

I found one of those TV commercials.

It's like, hey, the.

The fix and flip program that you like to watch is coming to your local Hyatt hotel.

Come get your free digital camera and have a little lunch on us.

And you know, you can get into real estate with no money, no credit, and not knowing what you're doing.

I said, okay, cool.

That's what I got.

Because what year.

What year was this?

So this was nice, 2000.

So I was 28 the year.

Oh, it was about, let's see.

Yeah, 2010.

So it was a little after the crash.

Okay.

Yep, 22.

About two years before me.

Okay.

I started in 2012.

So, okay, 2010.

14 years now.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and I had destroyed credit because I put all my wife's debt on her high interest rate cards onto 0%, 1%, 2% cards, like a responsible husband would do.

And that exploded.

And then being in school, I couldn't pay for garbage.

And I said, you know what, what if I don't pay them?

What are they going to do?

I'm just, I'm a curious guy too.

I'm like, what are they going to do?

Let's just see.

Let's see.

And yeah, it destroyed my credit.

But yeah, the cool thing again, I got to give her lots of love and thanks for that.

Because I wouldn't know all the savvy things that I do now about not using my credit, about not using, about giving the opportunity to the other people that want to be passive investors so that I can do that active work and then marry those things together.

And it just allowed me to look at different math equations differently within real estate.

And that was always very, very intriguing.

The math part.

Curious about that.

So did you eventually have to declare bankruptcy or do they eventually go away or you eventually paid them off?

You know, if I were to have declared bankruptcy, I think it would have been faster.

It would have been faster.

But no, I.

I got a debt consolidation company and they got me on a monthly plan and then I paid them some stuff.

They told me to go to court on certain days, got some judgments against me, and I'm like, you guys, you're not doing your thing.

And then they kind of fell off the wayside.

Turns out, fast forward 10 years from now.

Then I ended up getting a check in the mail for about 10 grand that said there was some class action lawsuit against them.

And so it was a settlement check from that.

And it was just interesting mailbox money I hadn' expected.

But yeah, so no, I had some derogatory marks that were on there for just a long time.

And I'm like, you know what?

I had all these credit cards that were awesome, like where people would have one of those.

Those.

Not a Rolodex, but basically a Rolodex book of like all all their contacts.

I just had credit cards and I would go to a gas station and do like a dollar on each of them each month so that I was billing something so that would just build my silly credit.

Now just sit there and put a dollar of gas in like, all right, mark it off, go to the next one and fill up my tank with 20 cards.

Yeah.

But that's how I ended up getting into real estate is from this.

Do it on TV, come here for 30 minutes, give us a few grand for a weekend.

Give us a lot more money to get another week and then we'll try and sell you on a 40, 50, $80,000 program.

Got into some real estate, got a book.

So how far, how far did you go in that whole upsell program?

Well, so, yeah, I mean, I got the weekend for a few grand and remember I had no money at the time.

I had a card that I could put that on, one card.

So I could put that on the card and then went to it.

I'm like, oh man, this is really going to change my life.

You really could, you really couldn't do that.

You can wholesale, you can make money from nothing.

And so I negotiated down.

So I'm, I love negotiating.

I've been going to these developing countries for a long time and I attribute it to that.

Mexico, Spain, different things where you just, they honor you if you negotiate, they're disappointed almost if you don't.

Slightly, but love negotiating on everything.

And so like I said, I want this, I want that on your package.

I'm not going to pay that.

I want lower price.

So whittle it down.

But then it was like 16 grand to come up with.

And then I just begged my parents.

I'm like, hey, I can pay you back in 90 days easily, you know, because they had just primed you with all of this knowledge.

Easily within 90 days.

Right.

Having no clue about a single real estate transaction.

No clue aside from buying my own house and working on it.

That's.

That's it.

And so again, I have to give tons of love to my parents.

That's the one thing that they've, they've always given is they've, they've supported me in my education with things.

And because of that, yeah, they, they lent me the money.

I think I gave them 10% interest.

Right.

I mean the, the, the, the whole team that was there would literally coach you almost on what to say.

Like, who do you know, write a list of everyone, whatever.

But I mean, I have to give thanks because I got into it and then I was looking at the book and I'm like, okay, Pa, like how to find houses.

All right.

I put out a whole bunch of bandit signs.

We buy houses.

I would start writing them and I'm like, this is taking forever.

As an architect, I'm like, this is taking forever.

This sucks.

But I understand legibility and I like do that.

So then I got a sum printed and I would Just put them out and people are calling and I'm doing the thing and I got three houses under contract and go in and look at, I'm like, all right, got houses under contract.

Now what do I do?

Right?

This is 2010 and Akron or 2010?

2011.

Oh yeah, Akron, yep.

All the places like I, I would them in Talmage, they hated it.

Stowe, they hated it, right.

All you like.

I didn't know I would just, you know, ask begged for forgiveness.

I had a Google number.

So when the police, when it said this is officer blah blah blah, that's calling for this, please give me a call back, I'm like, oh, I'm not touching that one.

Right.

I'm like, I'm anyone.

Let's don't want your house.

No, right.

Don't want that.

And then what?

I had the city of Stowe call me.

They say, you know what?

You put up these bandit signs so darn high because I developed this thing to put it up on a pole thing where I could stand there and it would go so high and I could hammer it in with this other device, a bandit hammer I created.

And you, and I, you man, you're taller than me.

You wouldn't be able to jump even if you had like a three foot vertical.

You wouldn't be able to jump and touch these signs.

Right?

So I'm like perfect.

People can see them from far away and no one's going to take them down.

Well, the city of Stowe said you're either going to take these down within 24 hours or you're going to, to pay us for a cherry picker.

500 bucks so we can take them down because we can't, we can't even reach them.

So I took those down.

But I mean bandit signs got me into it.

But yeah, I mean I had to turn to page 87.

I think it was where I had to figure out how to find a buyer.

I, I, I wasn't doing like the reverse wholesaling.

I just found the house and then like find a buyer.

And you know, things were different back then with groups and Facebook and, and, and Google and anything.

It was just, it was non existent.

So that's where I learned to just do things for myself.

Right.

And, and work with myself.

And yeah, one of those, I was able to get to the finish line.

The other two, I had to kind of like hide away and not talk to those sellers because I didn't know what I was doing.

And that's how, that's why wholesalers Get a bad rap in the beginning because what the hell they're doing, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, that got me on my path.

And so I.

I tasted that first taste of real estate.

I'm like, wow, you can make.

So your first.

All your first transactions were mostly from bandit sign intake.

And then you were just a wholesaler, so you put together an assignment agreement and find a buyer on.

I mean, I was using for the first couple years was Craigslist.

Well, yeah, Craigslist was big.

That's right.

I forgot there wasn't.

Yeah, you want.

You didn't have Facebook.

You didn't have Zillow.

I mean, that was the thing from 2012 to probably.

I mean, Zillow probably was more like 2015, 14.

So, okay, so this time, right, you're just all wholesaling and what did that volume look like until you started?

Because eventually you started to hold some.

Yeah, I mean, like, so, yeah, it's.

It was sporadic and, you know, you're at the will of whoever calls these signs.

And then I'd look for other ways of doing different advertising.

And I tried to do.

I started putting on some seminars for bandit signs on wheels where I would pay to put a decal on somebody's car that said call this number and.

And do all this.

And then they would get a commission off of that.

And I would.

I would put that all on and, you know, train other people to do what I did so I could kind of step one, step up from there, so get bird dogs to do all that.

But it was.

It was like, all right, in the first year, maybe there were three transactions that.

That accumulated in some money.

So it was just, you know, hard working for off the head.

It was really hard and living lean and that.

But yeah, eventually there'd be people where the deals wouldn't work out for a cash price.

And I'd be like, you know what?

There's something creative that can happen within here.

I understand what they had going.

I'm like, what?

What?

And because ultimately, like, I wanted to own it, but I would.

I would start out usually by these cheapy, cheapy properties that I could get for just a few grand.

And then crazy thing is, I wouldn't even put money into them because.

Because look, remember the problems that I had no money and destroyed credit.

So guess what I can't do?

I can't rehab them.

Them.

Even if I had the skills.

Like, I had the skills but couldn't put money into them.

Didn't know about private lending at the time.

Hadn't learned that, so I started doing rent to own with people.

And so I'm like, hey, how about you give me a big chunk of money down and then pay me every month and I will give you this beautiful fixer upper.

It's move in a bull.

I like, I started teaching people, move in a bull is what we really like.

It means, like, yeah, it probably has heat.

And people would get in there and it's the most amount of hug dudes would end up giving me.

And they'd be crying like, thank you.

You are changing my family by giving me this opportunity because they didn't have credit either.

So I liked that.

I liked that I was helping someone to take a property off and then give it to somebody else.

That was.

That was cool.

But it wasn't making, right, the type of money that I wanted to make with it.

So I'm always looking for more.

So I started amping up the wholesale game.

I got to the point where I'd.

I'd buy portfolios.

I'd start to say, hey, if you have.

Have 10 or more properties in a portfolio, I want to buy them.

And it's like, if you're a wholesaler and you got 10 or more, someone that has 10 or more, call me because I can handle it.

It's an Excel sheet, right?

People are afraid of Excel.

Ooh, big up scary Excel.

And so I got to the point, my.

My largest wholesale was 93 properties at once.

And that's when I was really, really digging it.

And it was.

It was great, except then I'm like, okay, I made this giant chunk of money and.

But it's one time.

It's just one time.

Like, I gotta own, I gotta own, I gotta own, I gotta own.

How many ways?

What's my problem?

Money.

How many ways can I find money?

All right, Hard money lenders, right?

And I'm start talking to them because, yeah, still no one.

Gosh, if I could have known about private money lenders in the beginning.

Holy smokes.

That could just unlock lots of different things.

And teaming with experience to allow that all to happen.

Amazing.

But yeah, hard money lender.

What, right here in Cleveland?

You probably know, jag up in Cleveland.

So gosh, yeah, I started buying with their money.

It got to.

What year is this?

So this year, let's see, that's going to be 2019.

2019.

2018, maybe.

Maybe like, maybe like 2017.

So I guess there's a spot where I started using it really slowly.

Oh, no, it's a few years back.

It's A few years prior to that, maybe like 20, 2014, I started doing it.

I.

I started partnering with a contractor here, a guy, Ohio home improvement.

And I thought if I could just have a team that understood that that would make sense and he could handle that, you know, you.

I'm sure you've been in different partnerships that didn't work out well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that one.

So what.

What had you done?

You'd made a bunch of money wholesaling, but you didn't.

You didn't have that to go buy your own rentals.

Not enough.

Just not enough.

Not concerned.

That's what you were living off of.

So you were living off of your.

Your assignment fees.

Yeah, except, like, you know, the 93 properties.

I made a little over three grand per property, which is a decent amount, you know, and so that's enough.

I mean, back then, that was enough to go buy five, six rentals in cash and have, you know, 5,000amonth in cash flow.

Yeah.

Yep.

So what I did is I started to have a team at the time where I would train them and then we would go and we would acquire different properties too.

And so I started leveraging some credit.

Not mine, someone else that was the guarantor on all of that.

But no, I had had this other company.

We'd try and fix things up.

I'd do some fix and flips.

They were flops because his pricing, whatever.

He was quoting me, the pricing that his company was doing was way too high.

He was more like a retail person.

So that.

That didn't work out for different reasons.

Started things on my own to wholesale.

And, yeah, that's when I really just said, you know what?

I understand architecture, I understand the real estate.

I understand the money.

Let me go and just do these things myself, get these pieces and parts together.

And I started borrowing a lot.

And I started university out of independence with two partners.

One of them, that was great.

The other one was great at first.

And he's the type of person, he's like, I've never been in a partnership before, so I just really want to have that extra 1% so that I'm the majority owner.

Owner.

And I'm like, I don't give a.

If you have an extra 1%.

If I can sit in the back seat because you got an extra 1% from something cool, buddy.

Right?

But he started to not care about the students.

At the end when he started to say that, I'm like, okay, we're.

We're completely out of alignment.

And he was you know, a devout Christian, and he was always carrying his Bible around and saying this and that, and it's like, you know what?

There's just bad apples all over the place.

Regardless of whatever things, you know, they, they, they can preach.

So that university ended up drying up.

But at the time, I was buying a property a week off the MLS.

So that was, that was about that 2018 time frame.

2018, 2019 time frame.

Yeah, you could get them off the MLS, wholesalers, whatever.

But I had private money easily from Jag, right.

And so I was just.

Had a whole lot of people that were doing work for me, lots of.

Properties, buying, renovating, holding, or you were flipping wholetailing.

It was, it was.

So it was a little of everything.

It depended on the situation.

And of course I couldn't hold everything.

And you know, and I had some different partners.

There was kind of one year right before the university started where I just, I'm like, screw it.

I don't want to wait to do all these things.

I want to do everything at once.

So I started the university, started wholesaling a lot more, started fixing, flipping with a partner, started buying holding with a partner, got into a multifamily building with a team, did.

Gosh, it was just like everything, it's like, screw it, shotgun.

Like, I'm done with it.

I want to see what I like and what I don't like.

Shotgun.

And so, yeah, some of those absolutely failed, right.

But I learned tons from those failures in that time.

And I, I really liked that.

But yeah, it got to.

When I was doing this university, as I'm.

You always say, right?

That's that notion of, yeah, you learn best when you teach.

You teach something, you actually have to learn it, internalize it to like spew it out into simple language to other people.

I, I got things down at that point, so I was buying one a week and I would just.

One of.

My title guy actually lives in one of my rent to own houses.

I helped him out and so I would go onto his porch and we would sign papers every Friday.

Like if it was going to close on a Wednesday, I'm like, let's make it to Friday.

And we just signed there.

I'd bring him his six pack of summer shandy.

He always liked, liked whatever, man.

Even when we had another notary from another company because I couldn't pull it to my title company, I had that notary drive to his house so that we could sit there and just do that, that tradition.

Because it was, it was fun.

Yeah, it Was finally, finally fun fixing houses up.

But, yeah, you'd.

You'd.

You'd get rid of some.

But it got to the point where it's just like, I don't want to get rid of anything.

I just.

And it's like, that's my mindset now, is I really don't.

Unless it's junk.

Unless I need to get rid of junk when the market is high, I don't want to get rid of anything.

Real estate is awesome.

It keeps going up.

It's awesome.

And except Covid hit holy smokes.

Were you affected by Covid with your.

How did that affect your investments during that time?

So, yeah, it was fine.

I mean, the government gave out all the handouts.

So, you know, I was collecting.

I don't know, I probably collected 30, $40,000 in CARES act rents.

Not many of my tenants were affected.

Some, let's see, I wasn't.

Wasn't in a ton of syndications at that point.

One that I was in was, unfortunately, hospitality.

So it was hurt.

But they did an amazing pivot of creating this entire outdoor wonderland with, like, heated igloos and live music and all this stuff because it's in Jersey.

So in the winter, it was rough, but in the summer, you know, they just did everything outdoors, and they had weddings outdoors.

Doors.

They got a.

They brought in a giant.

I mean, you call it a tent, but it was like a permanent tent structure, and they had weddings outdoors and did all these things to keep the revenue coming in.

So that was really the only one I was in that was the most affected.

And they pivoted very well.

That's.

That's not too bad then.

No, gosh.

I mean, Covid itself was a.

A big effect on me.

And it's kind of things that just molded me because I retired or.

Or I.

I was retired.

They eliminated my division.

I was trying to work until 40.

They eliminated my engineering division.

Oh.

Actually, so I had left engineering for a better offer in healthcare when I was about to quit.

And that worked.

It was great for like two years.

And then private equity, they just eliminated the continuous improvement division within the healthcare company.

And I was like, oh, okay, that's it.

And so that was at the end of.

Of 2019.

And so I retired and I was like, okay, I'm done.

Like, this is it.

You know, I've been.

I was trying to work, you know, another eight, 10 months, and I'm not going to go back to manufacturing.

And, you know, there's not any other real healthcare continuous improvement jobs to Be cake.

So I retired, and I was like, okay, not doing anything in my calendar.

Nobody's getting in my calendar.

Because I used to be double, triple booked, right?

I've got 18 engineers, seven plants, and.

And then.

So I was already like, peter from Office Space, right?

What would you do with a million dollars?

I'd do nothing.

I would do nothing, right?

So I was already in that mindset of, dude, this is it.

This is the pass of life.

And then Covid hits and there's nothing to do.

And those two things really took me out of being, like, a complete extrovert.

You know, we were talking earlier, so I.

I was the extrovert, right?

Go, go, go, go, go.

Red Bull and vodka.

Like, that was me, right?

Like, yeah.

And those two things, without even knowing it, turned me way, the other way to.

I just became, like.

I don't call it a victim, but, like, of my little.

Like, we built an amazing house, right?

We got the gym and I got my infrared, and now we have the pool and the hot.

Like, everything is here.

Like, what?

I don't need to go out.

Like, go out on the weekend.

Oh, all the people and the lines and this.

And, like, so.

But now I've come back to this middle ground of where.

Where, you know, being an extrovert to a certain extent will recharge my batteries for a while, and then it'll start to drain the battery, and then, you know, I.

I need to just come back, be the homebody and get in your infrared.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And plenty of nights home, just, you know, getting in bed early, watching shows and movies with kids or whatever.

And then it'll be like, okay, now my introvert has drained my batter.

Now I need my battery.

I need to get out there.

I need to be with my buddies, and I need to go travel, go to a conference or.

You know, what I'm realizing now is I'd read it in many blogs about, you know, the.

The downfalls of retirement and all these things about.

Oh, you.

You know, and I read it and I was like, no, like.

But I'm realizing it so much now at, like, the lack of purpose and contribution and building and all that was in here, and it wasn't being served satisfied.

And it was depressing me.

And coming back from fincon when I was like, dude, I'm gung ho.

I'm flipping.

I'm gonna flip.

I'm gonna buy these rentals.

I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.

And I went, and I've done a whole bunch here in the last month and boom, like it's just lifted me up getting back to production and I just, I have to figure that out because I have, how I've put it on my podcast and talked about it for a while is I want the opportunity to work, not the obligation.

And I've just got to figure that out because like my buddy Joe Burdison, who you would love that he's another crazy outgoing Tony Robbins leaning forward guy.

He's got like 120 rentals and he doesn't like, he won't get on a plane and travel and he, he likes being his homebody here.

But he couldn't, like he couldn't go away when you're self managing 120Akron rent, you know, so I know I don't want that.

So I've got to figure out this, this ground of, of this opportunity, not the obligation and not building this juggernaut of potential problems because the more partnerships, the more rentals, the more private, even private equity has given me so many sleepless nights because so if you look at this, this portfolio of partnerships, rentals, limited partnership investments, right.

An issue and you know, in any one of those, I don't, I don't do well.

Like my buddy Joe, I call it water off a duck's back.

Like problems to him, he just fluffs it off and it's gone.

And problems to me start my churning at 4:30 in the morning.

And I can't, I can't sleep tonight.

But I'll get out of bed because now it's just my mind is spinning of whether you call it Grant Cardone Chapter 12 or something.

Fear, false events appearing real.

Right.

So all these scenarios are going in my head.

Oh, this tenant, they're not talking to me.

They're behind the water shut off.

Is the, how are the pipes going to freeze?

Am I going to have to evict them?

Are they going to tear up the house?

Oh, this capital call from two weeks ago.

Oh, they want another $40,000.

This company, this is the second capital call this year.

They've completely mismanaged this building.

Do I send it?

Do I send them another 40 or do I not?

And I let myself get material diluted, what do I do?

Do?

Do I give them another 40 and they misappropriate that again and then that's on me or do I not send it and I just get diluted?

So I don't know.

There's, I've got to figure out this line of producing but yet being very Cautious of potential stressors that are out there in my portfolio, in my network, in my realm.

And that's, that's kind of where I'm at now.

Maintain, man.

Yeah, gosh, maybe, like, I, I, I don't know how you think about things, so let me know.

But, like, a lot of times, I think in the past, I've always, I'm, I'm thinking, I'm like, it's going to go, and I'm going to keep going.

Whatever I'm going to do.

Yes.

I'm an entrepreneur and I can work whenever I want.

Right.

I don't have to work today, but I find that I'm the worst boss.

Like, starting out especially, I would work tons of time.

Like now, not so much.

It's kind of, kind of the opposite right now.

It's almost like, all right, come on, get to work.

Get to work.

Working from home, all the, and managing everything and get to work.

But before, I would work all hours of the day.

2019.

Oh, my gosh.

When I was doing that, like, shotgun with everything, like, I'm like, hey, I have capacity to do all of this.

I'm super organized.

Like, all my tech, all my everything, super organized.

I can do all these different things.

I would work nights, and I'm, I'm like, I'm in the screen.

I'm, like, looking at these fine Excel, like, okay, let's do this.

Like, these different portfolios, because, yeah, I'd rather sell a hundred of them.

Them with one owner to talk to, as opposed to a hundred homes with a husband and a wife and each of them.

So that's like 200 people to talk to.

It was just infinitely better.

But it was stressing me out, man.

It was.

It.

I didn't realize it, but I actually caused myself to get diagnosed with disease because of all that in 2019.

It was horrible.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay.

So it was late at night.

Night.

I'm by myself in a nice home in Calga Falls that we had renovated.

It's beautiful, right?

And so I'm happy.

I'm like, all right, I got a nice place to, to live in now.

Working late on my screens, really close to doing all that typing, doing things.

And then all of a sudden I'm like, these fingers aren't moving.

These ones are moving, but these ones aren't moving.

And, and I'm looking at something and I mean, cross your eyes, right?

You see double.

I was seeing double.

I'm like, this probably is, isn't great.

I know.

It's, it's late, but.

So let me.

Let me go.

Let me.

Why don't I just go, like, sit down and watch some TV or something?

Like, I'm just.

I'm just, you know, too much.

Too much screen time.

Okay.

Too much screen time.

Okay, okay, okay.

Go and watch some tv.

Half an hour later, still double.

I'm like, okay, it's probably not good.

So then I go back to my computer.

I'm Google, put these symptoms in here.

Lovely.

WebMD, right?

It says, says you have a stroke.

I'm like, oh, stroke, cool.

And so it's like, you should go to the hospital immediately.

Like, time is of the essence.

And I'm like, that is so inconvenient right now.

Right?

Like, I got so many things that are going on that's so inconvenient right now.

And I'm like, all right, well, if I'm going to be in the hospital, it's.

It's midnight, it's dark.

Like, I'm like, like, let me go put on some comfy pants.

So, like, it says, leave immediately.

Put on some comfy pants.

And I'm like, you know, I don't know when I'm going to brush my teeth again.

Let me just go brush my teeth.

Teeth real quick.

I get the.

Call the hospital because I'm like, what's my insurance right now?

Okay, Hospital charges, whatever.

They come, they, they.

The.

The ambulance comes in the front, see the lights go on.

I open the front door and I'm like, hey, there.

Like, literally, like, hey, there.

They're like, hello.

I'm like, yeah, you're here for me.

And they.

They're pulling the gurney out the back, right?

You picture them, and they're like, can you come down here?

Here?

I'm like, oh, yeah, I can come down.

So I get in there and I'm.

I'm telling them my symptoms of things.

I'm like, this feels a little funny right here.

I'm.

I'm seeing double, like, and I can't.

I can't move my fingers.

They're like, okay.

They strapping me to things they're trying to figure out.

They take me to the hospital.

They take me to the CAT scan.

They.

They.

I'm there the whole night.

No one knows what's going on.

And in the morning, they're just like, you can go now.

And I'm like, what do you mean I can go ago?

And I literally walked out of there, down the hallway, and I'm still seeing double.

I'm like, dude, this is not right.

How Do.

How do they let people like, this is what is going on.

I'm seeing double.

I have my friend pick me up because I'm like, hey, can you drive me home from this?

And she's like, this is not right.

She gets me into the Cleveland Clinic.

Fast forward like a week.

Gets me into the Cleveland Clinic.

They, they do all these tests on it.

Day one, they don't know what's happening.

Day two, two, don't know what's happening.

In the middle of.

At end of day two, in the middle of the night, they.

They put a binder because they take my blood and everything like every couple hours.

It's horrible.

Can't sleep.

They put a binder that says, welcome to having a stroke.

I'm like, oh, okay, well, cool.

That's kind of what I thought, but whatever.

Then the next morning, they actually took that binder away and they're like, oh, sorry, that's not right.

That's not right.

Don't look at that.

It's messed up.

Up.

And then they tell me that I'm diagnosed with ms, Multiple sclerosis.

Didn't know what it was, but it's like, it's.

I mean, do you know.

Have you ever heard of ms?

I.

I've heard of it.

I'm not the most familiar, but no, I didn't think of it as a stroke symptoms type thing.

No, there.

It's.

So it's basically, it's like how it manifests is something in your brain.

It's kind of like an electrical wire, you know, as the sheathing on the outside, and then it has the conductors on the inside.

Basically, your, your body thinks that at the sheathing, that is a foreign body, and it starts eroding it.

And so it eats away at your.

The sheathing.

And so then you get like electrical connections that are where they shouldn't go.

And that's what it was, is that I couldn't move something and my vision was double.

So then I'm like, oh, my gosh.

My whole life, what's going to happen?

My this, my that, all of everything.

And, you know, I had to do a little bit of like, they gave me this little thing to move around.

Occupational therapy for stuff.

Some glasses that had some tape in the middle.

So I literally, literally couldn't see double where the two were crossing.

It's really odd.

But no, basically, the way I look at, they don't know where it comes from.

It's not hereditary.

They don't know what causes this.

They don't know what causes it, we know what causes it, but they don't know what causes it.

And there's no cure.

There's just like managing it.

That's, that's our medicine for us.

Which is horrible, right?

Well, what causes it is stress.

Stress manifests as disease in your body.

Anxiety, all these things in the middle of the night, everything that's going on.

Yeah, horrible type of stuff.

And it's like debilitating disease where it's like down, down, down, down, down, down, down until you're like a puddle on the ground basically is what it used to be as the, the normal course for people.

Dude, it's been five years.

I get treatments every six months for it.

But like I haven't had any freaking symptoms since.

I've, I've.

I've practiced lots of, of mindfulness and just relieving stress in my life.

You know, eating really clean and, and just eliminating things and just being very grateful with, with everything.

And it, it's.

It's been perfectly fine.

You, you've met my wife, she's an energy healer in general.

So she has like these types of principles.

It's funny that we end up meeting about these things.

But yeah, I have not had a single symptom from everything since and she really wants me to get on off of any type of medication because weird foreign stuff that you put in your body, not good.

But anyway, that event though, it just caused.

Allowed me to like reflect.

Of course, you know, whenever you're.

You're facing something, there is.

There was a.

Sure a big period of depression, but it's like reflection and like what am I doing?

Why am I doing this?

What is this?

This.

This can't be.

This can't be right.

And then Covid hit and.

Oh my gosh.

So Covid though for me I was.

I had all these loans from fix and flipping with jack bag and I was paying.

It got up to 16, a little over 16 grand a month, which you can imagine of like 12 interest only payments on things.

There's a decent amount and we were fixing them and then one contractor messed up on stuff so.

And couldn't handle everything anymore.

So I stepped in because I can do anything in a house, absolutely anything in a house, anything.

And I just try to not do that because that's not really my highest and best use.

But I'm good at it.

And so I started doing stuff and run crews and then covet hit because I tried to reflect refinance.

I had seven properties waiting to get refinanced.

They were a Week away.

And I got a call when I was in a house, and he said, we got a problem with your loans.

I'm like, all right, well, what's.

What do you need now?

Right?

There's always so many things they need.

What do you need now?

Right?

Said because of everything that's happened, of course, Covid, blah, blah, blah, they.

They aren't going to be able to refinance these.

I'm like, oh, gosh.

All right, well, then where.

Where are we going next?

Because it's always not like, what's.

What's the next solution?

Like, if not this, than something else.

He said, no, there's nobody.

It's like, it's closed.

Nobody is refinancing because there's uncertainty.

And I said, oh, okay, well, when are they going to open?

He said, no clue.

No clue in sight.

They're very quick to close up.

They're very slow to open up whenever they do.

And I'm like, we have seven.

They're right there.

They got everything.

It's right there.

Can't they just close these ones?

He said, no.

And so I had those, and I had all these other properties that I'm burning at this high interest rate, right?

That some of them were still needing renovations, so I couldn't even get a tenant in them, right?

So I'm like, oh, my gosh.

I'm like, this is horrible.

Like, I had thoughts.

I remember I had thoughts like, what if I flee the country?

What if I freaking flee the country at the time?

Because what am I going to do, right?

And are they going to pay rent and everything?

So.

But I mean, I put so many good things in place to make sure and to help the tenants.

Like, I have my own property management that I do now, because property management managers suck that are out there.

They don't care.

So, you know, we run it.

I.

I run it, but it's.

It's a lot less me.

I just put systems in place now, but, man, put systems like, 12 deep.

Like, if they call, they say they can't pay to say this.

If they say that, they don't have that.

Say this, say this, say this, say this, say this, say this.

You find where they have money, right?

Damn it.

You get that money, and we'll give you guys free hand sanitizer, right?

Because everyone's like, oh, that's gold cold.

During COVID made right there in Akron at Gojo, right?

In Cuyahoga Falls.

That's right.

Yeah.

Love Gojo, but, man.

Yeah, that was a stressor in my Life.

But it taught me just, you know, buck up and, and do it.

But I was, I was floating my loans for a while.

Basically cash flowing enough.

Yeah.

Pay the loans and then defer the taxes.

Yeah, there's only so much to, to go.

So it was, it was a little rough for a while until still, you know, get to the other side of everything and then could refinance everything.

It all ended up working out well.

You get your, your money.

The thing that saved me is just bought it cheap enough, bought all the properties cheap enough.

And then during COVID there was lots of appreciation that happened.

So it, it ended up solving itself, thank God.

It, it just, it all ended up solving itself at that point.

But I'm like, man, these rentals are a pain in the butt sometimes.

Like it can just hit you, you from the side.

And my other business partner in that university, he was buying one a week.

But he did, he wasn't managing his things quite right.

He lost everything.

I mean he lost, he was doing it for a year and a half.

So he lost like 75 properties.

Boom.

Completely.

Just had to take them back and they're.

They're gone.

Doing something else now because it wasn't for him.

But yeah, that was, that was a fun time time for me.

So.

So what does your portfolio look like today?

Yeah, today I have a little over 60 properties.

Some multi family, lots of single family.

So I can easily just manage that.

And we're, we're rarely at eviction court, but.

And those are mostly leveraged out, I would say.

Yeah, they're, they're, most of them are at like, well at this point, probably like 55%.

Yeah, but you did like a bur strategy as you grew them and the stuff that we were accumulating from 20.

2014 to 17.

Yeah, those loans are now 40 LTV or something probably.

Yeah, they're, they're low at a great interest rate.

I mean there was always, there's some properties that I kept just in case like that that were paid off just in case I needed to do something right.

Pull out money or whatever.

You get more cash flow in the meantime.

But yeah, that's, that's the basic gist of it.

But yeah.

And then, then I, then I just, gosh, it got to the point where it was like 2022.

Proposed to my wife on yacht retreat for a capital group raise Masters you've ever heard with Hunter Thompson.

So yeah, we had a retreat for just the, the people in Rais Masters Miami on a triple decker yacht.

We're all dressed in white.

And I'm like, dude, can I just.

Would it be cool if I proposed?

I'm like, this is the best proposal area ever.

Like, I mean, we got food, all this stuff.

And yeah, really surprised her there.

Had some fun.

We tried planning our wedding and we're not.

We're not really big into that, so we just decided to have a kid.

Kid instead, because that was always the plan.

But it's during that whole time, like I'm.

I'm in raise masters with these people that are raising millions and millions and millions of dollars and they're doing like, really love self storage.

Or like 90% of them were multi family, multifamily.

So big and all of that.

It never jazzed me.

It just, it never, never jazzed me.

The money is like, money's money, you know, but time is huge.

Number one experiences are.

Are the world.

And now as I'm reflecting with my little boy to come, I'm like, what do I want?

How do I want to be for him?

Like, I have enough properties where I can take a pause and just figure that out.

And I consulted for a little bit where I'm like, all right, how much money can I make per hour?

And because my wife was like, you know, you can make so much money per hour doing it.

I'd keep raising rates and people would keep hiring me, but it.

She's like, why don't you like doing it?

Like, I don't know.

She's like, you're making.

Making over 500 an hour now.

And I'm like, yeah, that's not really that exciting.

I gotta work for it, you know, I gotta work for it.

I put my all into that hour with them.

Right?

I put my all into it, but I don't want to work.

I don't.

I don't want to be at the.

The whim of somebody trading time for money.

Right?

Yeah, you could spend that hour.

What if you spent that hour on another rental property that's going to bring you 5, $600 a month for the next 20 years while it's a appreciating while the tenants paying down the principal balance and all these things and you know, it's a nice chicken instead of, okay, I'm gonna go have this hour and I got an egg, but I gotta go do it again to get another egg and I gotta do it again.

Yeah, yeah.

So maybe work in some sprints, 90 days or something.

Do that and then take 90 days off.

Maybe that's a little more fun.

But not.

Yeah, not working at the whim of everybody else and but yeah, you.

So we got these 60 properties and then.

I know, I want to talk about the RV resort.

Are you transacting real estate at all today?

Flipping, wholesaling, whole tailing or.

No, just holding rentals and working on the park.

So mostly rentals, just holding on to them.

Definitely working on some really cool things.

Bigger things.

But yeah, because I've been in it a while, it's easy to just single family homes and so people will send me deals because they know me like, hey, you want this thing?

And I'll be like, maybe I should just dump it to you.

Dump it what?

Yolk.

Send it to him.

That dude buys everything, right?

Don't, no, no, don't send it to Yolk.

No, no.

Everybody see, he buys, he's buying.

He's going to flip 135 houses this year.

He doesn't need any more deals.

Send them to us, us low guys that aren't out there sending out mailers or have an intake system.

We're just, we're looking for, for scraps here and they are off market to continue growing.

That's everybody says, oh Yoke.

So here's what, here's what I'll say about that though is I, I would love to send a property to you or, or anyone else like that.

But like this one that came in recently because I literally just like I, I, I never talked to Yoke, but I, I texted him today because I'm like, hey, what's your buy box?

Will you buy this?

Because it's a two bedroom, one bath in Akan.

That's 899 square feet and that is not my buy box at all.

What's a zip say?

Oh, maybe.

Yeah.

Well, so it's.

Then you find out it's Manchester Road and like southwest of Summit Lake and it's like, that's my, my one noo.

Yeah.

So who do I think of that buys every junk thing that's out there?

Him.

But so for the most part though, no, I'm not, I'm not really transacting much.

I'm really, I'm really not unless something comes out.

Like, I'm not.

But we have, we have our, our, our so to speak toolbox, right?

And flipping wholesaling wholes tools that we know how to use and we're not going to turn down, you know, when a deal comes across our plate.

You know, I stopped flipping in 2019.

I stopped flipping now.

I funded a flipping business with some bozos that Was a disaster.

But like, you know, four or five months ago, a person came across with an off market in Jackson Township.

And I was like, ooh.

I was like, oh, can I hold that?

How can I hold that house for $2,300, $2,400 a month rent.

And I was like, yeah, no, I don't know if it'll make sense, but I'm like, I know there's juice there to flip this thing if I have to.

And it's a, it's my kind of flip flooring and a driveway, not cabinets and kitchens and paint and bathrooms and this and that.

So yeah, we went in, I tried to get it to be my passive mailbox money at 2400amonth, but it didn't have any takers.

But it made, it just closed two days ago, you know, $35,000 profit.

Profit for me to make a couple phone calls.

Hey, go put flooring in it.

Hey, put a driveway there.

And that was my first time using the online MLS system to, you know, to stay out of that two and a half percent, you know.

So I paid 300 for an online MLS listing and boom, that's all you need.

Broker direct?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that.

Well, I mean, because you don't have to.

There's not a lot of supply for people out there right now.

So yeah, it's time to flip like that.

That's a good property.

But yeah, you're, you're spot on.

Like, how do you make that cash flow?

Like there's, there's lots of people that will do pad split midterm rentals.

Gosh, short term rentals, but probably Jackson squashes on that.

But you, there's, there's so many ways of making more money than just a long term rental.

But they're not for me.

It, it's, it's a whole other business.

That's what people don't, don't realize is they think, oh, I'm going to have one short term rental.

Like maybe I'll do midterms here and then some, some long.

They're completely different business models, completely different clientele, different marketing that you have to do, different type of systems to keep them going.

It's like that's a whole other business.

How many businesses can you juggle?

Like, do you have someone that's your project manager to do all of that?

Or are you doing that because you go insane to make nothing, nothing to make that end up happening?

But they get excited like, yeah, I'm getting all this per month to.

On this property.

But then regulation will hit and the township will say, no, you can't have a short term rental there.

And then you're screwed.

Like there's lots of places right now that they're outlawing that.

And even what you, you, I saw you have a property in St.

Pete, right.

So St.

Pete, unless you're grandfathered in, you can't short term rental anymore.

Nope.

It's a.

So I'm part of an HOA regardless.

So out of like any city ordinances and ours is a two week minimum.

So we can do a two week.

But I, I don't even, I don't want somebody I don't know know.

So at that point.

Yeah, this is your.

My clothes.

Yeah.

I mean all our stuff.

Yeah.

Bluetooth speakers and clothes and paddle boards and all that.

So it is available for friends and family to, to rent, but at a good rate.

But I'm not having somebody I don't know in my stuff.

And.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's.

Yeah.

And it's not.

It's a horrible investment.

It's a lifestyle investment.

When you look at the costs of this place and how much it's getting.

Used, it's a liability.

On, on the liability or asset side, it's.

I mean, it's like when you make it where.

Yeah, no one else is going to live in this because it's my stuff.

I can't put it in a locker, for lack of a better word.

Yeah, it becomes a liability.

Sure.

It might appreciate.

But don't get me wrong, you're paying every month regardless for it.

And you don't have cash flow coming in.

So it's, it's on the liability side.

So forget about the mortgage.

Mortgage, just HOA.

Property taxes and insurance are like 2200amonth.

So it's not appreciating at 2200amonth.

And that's what your expenses are apart from your mortgage.

Yeah, and it's.

And yeah, I mean, and it's.

No one's going there for the five months, six months where Florida is a horrible place to be.

Yeah.

That's like Danny made that post about lightning and snow and he's like, oh, Ohio, your days are numbered.

And I was like, well, you don't want to spend the summer in Florida.

I mean, that's arguably worse going down in Florida of June through September.

So you gotta, you gotta have your seasonality.

And, and unfortunately, you know, you can, you could choose to like, you know, just Airbnb a place, you know, for a while.

But like I Go down every three weeks, basically through winter.

I'm heading down with Yoke on Sunday.

We're going down Sunday to Thursday.

And yeah, if you ever, you know, want to get away, feel free, let me know.

I'll throw you in on the trip, you know, host two, three guys at the place.

And yeah, go down, golf, fish, and use it in between.

Then it's just still, you know, it's sitting vacant.

And then again all summer, unless, I mean, a couple folks.

Friends went down and rented it through the summer when their kids are out of school and go to the beach and have a pool right there.

If you don't have a pool at your house or something.

So it's.

It's getting some usage, but it's.

You got to just look at it as.

Hey.

And because we have investments, right.

That's a.

That's a rental property.

And those expenses are just business expenses 100%.

So y.

That's where, you know, we get to leverage it or it has some advantages to us that it wouldn't to someone else who doesn't have a rental business to essentially, you know, aggregate that property into.

So, yeah, that's.

That's.

That's where I get to have some.

Some breaks through the winters heading down there.

And it's.

It's good, you know, little mastermind group.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, our family, we always thought that we wanted to have three or four houses in different areas and move to them throughout the year.

And so we.

We toyed with, all right, what are we going to do with our kids and their education then at that point?

So probably, honestly, we'll.

We'll end up being homeschooling.

And since COVID The good thing that came out of that is that there's lots of resources and also just like, what are they called, where.

I mean, you just.

You teach together or you learn together?

Like go over to.

Yeah, like go over to their house today and learn biology or something.

They can come to my house.

They can go through our woods and I'll teach them to cut down a tree and, you know, well, you got.

Lots of stuff on your wall.

You can teach them, right?

Well, yeah, but, you know, different.

Different ages and kinesthetic.

Something to.

To touch.

And I love nature.

I just.

Every little bit of nature.

So that's.

That's something that has to be.

So, yeah, for us, it was always Saint Peter Pete's.

A great, great spot.

Siesta key, Saint Pete, that whole side of it right there, that was always one spot until it's just like, man, overpriced and just not even.

That's just like hurricane and insurance and hurricane and hurricane and insurance and hurricane and hurricane and yeah, summer sucks, so we wouldn't want to be there.

So Sedona, Arizona area.

Love it there.

We love that.

Ohio is great.

The.

In, you know, summer, fall, you know, it's fun, crisp weather.

But that's where I ended up finding this North Carolina area for this RV resort that we're putting together.

That's going to be a fun.

A fun spot where it's just.

Weather's not good here.

It'll be better there, right?

The.

The moving.

It's.

It's one spot that we can bop around to.

I always thought it'd be cool to be like Australia, New Zealand, someplace where you get longer hours, hours in the winter.

Not these short hours, not just sun, but like, give me more, give me more sun, longer sun.

So.

But yeah, man.

And I never knew about RV parks.

I never knew about them until I was.

Till my wife got me to consult and people were paying me to consult them about this business they're starting.

And I'm like, hey, you need all these different things.

And then I learned about RV parks through that.

I'm like, holy smokes, you kidding me?

Me, like, I don't have to evict anyone.

I can drag them out.

I'm renting concrete like that don't have many structures.

Nothing can really get destroyed very easily.

It's durable.

And then what's the, the model look like?

What's your, your break even point for cash flow?

For ours, it's 22%.

So I'm, I'm familiar with a mobile home park because I had looked into them.

I had looked into buying one myself and I had looked into investing in funds.

Is there.

I heard that the differences.

What are the differences between an RV park and a mobile home park?

Besides, is there anything different besides the obvious of a home is dropped here and they're hooked up?

What's.

What are some of the differences?

Tons.

So.

And that's where I found confusion.

I mean, I had confusion similarly in, in the beginning because.

But the more I talk to people about it, they'll literally use those words interchangeably, like, oh, I don't really, really like mobile home parks.

And I'm like, that's not what we're talking about.

In fact, I hate mobile home parks.

They're not for me unless I were to just get rid of all of them and turn it to an RV park.

So the difference besides yeah, it's.

It's their home and you have some personal property.

Right?

Because a mobile home is personal property.

It's not real property.

The land it's on is real property.

But the mobile home isn't.

So.

But RVs aren't that.

It's crazy that mobile homes are called mobile homes because the RVs are the ones that are mobile and the mobile homes are stationary.

So it's whoever decided that's kind of.

Manufactured home is the more correct term.

The manufactured home 100 so they're crap.

And they're in.

There's some mobile home parks that are in nice areas, don't get me wrong.

And they're affordable housing.

100% affordable housing.

That's great.

I don't want to have any more affordable housing.

Things like with all the rentals, I don't want to have any more of that.

So the difference is more long term rental with mobile homes versus short term rental with RV parks.

So everyone brings in their own RV and then they leave.

They leave.

They just rent the.

The pad from you.

A lot of times utilities can be included.

Well you can also meter them.

The reason they usually don't meter them is because they don't have those that infrastructure in place.

One of the reasons why we're building to begin with is because we can build it exactly how we want it.

The other cool thing.

So end mobile homes.

You would have to evict them.

Where an rv, we drag them out, you don't pay.

We can shut off your utilities and drag you out.

Mobile home.

Any my homes I'd love to shut off utilities back in the day I hear landlords that used to take the door off the front door off when people don't pay.

You can't do that anymore, right?

Probably couldn't do that then but they did.

But you'd get in a lot of trouble for that now.

But no, you can drag people out.

Like you are not allowed here anymore.

And by the way you don't have any water, you don't have any electric.

You know, you know you're off grid.

So what else though?

A lot of times there's, there's like other businesses that you can get with them.

Like other thing, people are going to rent golf carts, people are going to get firewood, they're going to have propane tanks.

You could have them rent paddle boards, kayaks, food, grocery store.

There could be liquor, laundry.

Right?

Laundry.

Laundry.

Oh gosh.

It's all the.

So what is the.

Is this a gravel pad?

A Concrete pad had that they're renting.

Which it could be.

Any of those could be dirt, gravel.

So usually dirt and gravel is more like a campground.

And then you get into, you know, what's called an, an RV park in general.

And there's, there's no real distinction, but usually the difference is campground.

RV park, you have some Internet, you know, campground is more primitive.

RV park, you've got some Internet usually sucks.

And then there's more of like the RV reserve resort.

Even the resort level, there's not necessarily a big distinction, but usually the pads end up being concrete, something that's a little more durable, more amenities, nicer bath houses, maybe there's a, A nicer clubhouse, pickleball courts, because that's all the fad right now.

Pool that you can share and things.

So what is yours?

Where does yours fall?

What amenities?

What's yours gonna look like?

You don't even know.

So you're literally.

You watched, you watch.

Watch what we create.

It's going to be the most technologically advanced RV destination in the world.

In the world.

Technology.

So.

World.

World.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

So this is, this is a class.

This is not a traditional C class RV park.

A class, 100%.

So for one, I mean, we're working with the guy that currently has that title of the most technologically advanced RV park in the world go on his website.

Website, boom.

Says it right there.

And it uses lots of technology.

Like, all right, we can read their, their license plates and everything's automated.

So there's no check in, checkout that's needed.

And things are shut off.

Lots of.

Okay, you've got some fancy software that goes in it, but we're going to have some really next level stuff.

Put that on pause.

It's going to be in this awesome environment in North Carolina.

It's on the coast, saltwater coast.

So there's.

Oh my gosh.

I mean, one of these times I'll have to show you.

Like, there's this whole beach, lagoon that we have, so our own lagoon of saltwater beach.

So lots of little cabanas all around there.

We're going to have tons of glamping there.

That's all the next level glamping you've.

You've never seen, man, but you would love to stay in.

Maybe you've seen an Instagram or, you know, something like that.

But cool, cool domes.

Lots of domes together.

Hot tubs, saunas, lazy rivers, water park, park tree houses 30ft up.

My gosh.

Just like so many, so many fun things.

That are at this workout course that's around the whole thing, a trail that's about a mile long.

And I'm going to have little.

You know how they have those like stations that you can do push ups here.

Do, do that.

Yeah, right, right, right, Absolutely.

So we're going to make it where you can scan a little thing on there.

It'll show you a video, do a workout here.

Cool.

What the hook is though is we're gamifying the whole resort.

So like you scan it and, and you go and you get all the little waypoints around this mile loop and then you go and you're like, da, da, da.

You've completed your task.

You know, you can go and get toy at the store, the, the store that we have there, the general store.

You get a trinket, whatever the heck it is, little statue, something for the kids, something that entices kids.

And then the adults, you get a free drink.

So go and do some exercise.

Get a free drink right from all of that.

Why not?

We're paying you to be fit.

And the kids, I envision kids like dragging people out, out.

But we're gamifying it where every year it's going to change up.

That's how they keep games fresh nowadays.

Like, you know, you just put a new season on it all.

New seasons, new incentivizing, new targets.

Man, we even talked about your golfer.

So in the middle of the lagoon, we want to put like a little island with a, a little hole in one.

You go pay for a bucket of balls.

You get it in there, you win ten grand, you get a hole in one, you win ten grand.

Right.

People be sending that off off all the time.

Gosh.

And just today we were talking about.

All right, you've got all these little.

So on that, on that point real quick.

So have you already looked into what the insurance cost is for that?

Yeah, there's, there's a relative insurance.

We're, we're basically.

So we're modeling it off of someone else who's really successful with it and yeah, you, you pay for the insurance on it.

But right now at the stage we're, we're creating this menu, this menu of all these really cool things and then it's just as it comes to fruition.

I know we're not going to have all of them.

Right.

Because right now we bought the land and we're in the entitlement.

We're doing the civil engineering, the architectural and then we get our development.

Yeah, you're, you're at step one or you know, let's call it, you're at step two and you've already designed your step 20 of your services.

This is great.

100%.

100% man.

And so besides like all the fun things that we're going to do to, to Gamify and oh by the way, everyone loves like I've got some of these picture strips.

You go to the weddings or something.

Like take your photo, put the silly thing on, you make your face and you get your photo strip.

Right?

We're gonna have a photo booth that's free, free for everyone.

All you have to do is give a little video testimonial, go in there, give your video testimonial, get a free photo strip.

Boom.

Instant marketing for everything.

But yeah, our, our guarantee is that you're gonna have amazing memories or the stays on us.

That's it.

It's gonna be so unique with everything that we do too.

Absolutely phenomenal.

And so the technology, dude.

So I was just, I was talking with someone today, yesterday.

Yesterday feels like one long day.

But he's created the most technologically advanced RV in the world.

And his license technology just came off that like the five year period that he licensed it to the, the dod so now he can finally make them again for himself.

Himself.

So off grid stuff where I mean solar panels on the roof, everything, it doesn't even feel like an rv.

He uses commercial windows.

It feels like a normal space.

All of the, the movie studios, they all use his trailers for everything.

So when you see he's got like Dwayne Johnson, he's got pictures of him like, hey, that's where they go to stay when they're not recording on things.

But we happen to be, one of our people on here happens to be real good friends with him.

Known, known him for a long time, the, the founder of it.

And he's just like, I want these things to be everywhere.

And so we're going to have the most technologically advanced things that the power on the roof, it can feed our whole park.

We can have, we can put them out there and we can literally have a solar farm on top of everything else that we're doing.

And you would, you would be blown away by what the interior of these things look like, man.

They just, it does not look like any type of mobile home you've ever even ever conceived of.

And I just went to glamping shows.

America in Colorado, they have all the different glamping and trailers, basically 399 square foot homes that are out There.

Oh my gosh.

These things are awesome.

Like rooftop patios.

They've got those, those, those folding glass doors that open up with like I think it had like two different fireplaces in this thing.

Like we're not, we're not talking like roughing it when it's coming to some of this.

It's like really, really cool living vacation.

I mean you're, you're, you talk to me about the high level timeline and then where, where you're at.

You're early here and where does this completion out there for a website for people to book.

What, when is that?

Like what's this timeline look like?

Yeah, so it'll, it'll open within three years.

A hundred percent.

So within one year we'll have all the entitlement done because we're on the coast so we have to deal with Kamma and Army Corps of engineers.

So it's a little bit of annoyance but yeah, we get our permit permits, everyone will find out what we're actually doing at that point and then clear land, grade it.

But, and then it's just like think about it.

There's not as much to build it's infrastructure in the ground and it's concrete and it's repeat, repeat concrete, repeat.

Yeah.

There's going to be an awesome clubhouse and the, the well.

So you'll run like electric water sewer to each plot, right?

Yeah.

And how many, how many plots work network?

300 pads cable.

Okay.

So we'll have wireless and we'll also have network and we're going to have a feedback of electric so that we can take the electric from the solar to feed it back into our batteries.

The sewer that we have, we actually have our own wastewater treatment plant.

We're working with a company out of Europe that they do it for some big hotels in, in the States.

But we're going to have our own wastewater treatment plant where it takes all the black water and turns it into, into potable water that you can use anywhere.

We could turn it into drinking water if you want but it's just like that's a weird thing to like try and get people to think like hey guess what you're drinking.

You know it's not, it's not a sexy marketing sell.

What's the rough cost on that gonna.

Be though for all the different phases?

670 grand.

Just for the treatment plant?

Yeah.

Oh the whole, the whole thing.

The whole thing.

25 mil.

25 mil.

Will.

Wow.

And the gentleman you said, you said you're working with someone who today has.

The most advanced, most advanced, most technologically advanced RV destination.

And he is partnering with you in this to create the next level up.

Yeah.

So he has been doing this for 30 years, helping other people out, consulting on over 300 projects, own RV Parks himself.

And yet we're, we're consulting with him like and the crazy thing is is that some of the stuff that we're doing not even on his radar.

He's about, he's about 50, late late late 50s, maybe early 60s.

So kind of feel like he's in the sunset of things where you know, I'm 42, our chief technology officer.

I think he's 33.

32.

31.

So he's young.

Right.

And he loves technology more than anything.

So he's, he's in it and he, he, he, he just, he loves it even more than I do.

But man, we are going to have check out some of these things.

So like you can go up to a kayak, a kayak rental and just swipe your card and go and get it, grab it yourself.

You don't need a person.

Doesn't sound so exciting.

Except when you realize that you could get firewood that way, propane that way.

You can get a general store that comes in shipping contra container that has these robotic arms that can just go and grab whatever you need.

So you can get it on your iPad pad and it can get delivered to your spot or you can go right there and kind of like a crane machine, like a vending machine, but it's all self contained.

A few of those that are going on so just grab whatever you want.

24, 7.

Don't need any staff for that.

Don't have to pay for them to be sick, for them to be gone, for them to be anything.

We're looking to have, oh my gosh, these, these trash pickup robots to, to take your trash and move it around.

These dogs that can go around that can kind of like be security to look for things.

These, mowing the lawn, wherever we have the lawn that's there.

Right.

Gosh, I don't even know.

I'm, I'm missing half of what the craziness is.

But it's, it's, it's all next level stuff.

So 25 million.

I'm assuming you have kind of phases, stages of where you're looking to have capital raised by.

And you did you start, you started raising.

Yeah, yeah.

So I raised before buying the land, the million dollar land.

So got that and yeah, basically bought it all.

Sneaky sneaks in a trust that's like the, the preservation trust, I called it, this thing.

So no one knows what the hell we're doing there.

I don't want anyone to know till our permits are good basically.

Also like Walt Disney when he was buying the swamp lands, he doesn't want anyone to overprice for the, the plots that he needs.

So there were a couple holes in the allotment.

We bought a whole allotment or 67% of an allotment, an HOA.

And so we control the HOA.

I've never wanted to own property in an HOA unless I own the darn HOA.

And so boom, we do that.

And I started buying some of the other land that's in there too.

So nobody knows.

So still get it cheap.

But yeah.

So phase one is a year.

We buy the land, we go through all that entitlement stuff, we get our permits and then boom, we get our development loan, construction loan.

We start real, really, really clearing land and laying the infrastructure of everything about one and a half, two years later.

So that'd be about like the, the T plus three years total.

That's when the park would open.

We'd have like 67 pads at that point.

Then you move on to the next phase, next phase.

And so there's like a middle phase and then there's an adults only section within it.

So kid friendly, but also adults only.

Separate pool, separate laundry, all of that stuff.

And so yeah, 300 pads all together now.

And if we buy more land, maybe more, but lots of different glamping too.

Some on the beach, some in the woods, always elevated just in case there's floods.

And just because bugs, because you know, the people that are paying for this kind of don't want the bugs at that point.

But yeah, that's the model.

And then we're going to be the forefront of technology.

So we'll have expos at this place, we're going to do wellness retreats at this place.

Just really forward thinking and want to be known as that.

And a test bed for all the future parks that we're buying.

So besides this resort.

And so the whole thing will take about six to seven years from right now or from a few months ago.

That's our plan.

And so a few different stages of all of that, different funding, but so that's Hidden Beach RV Resort.

We've got an acquisition arm where we're just going to buy, buy RV parks.

Gosh, it's so much easier to cash flow something that's existing and making money as opposed to development.

Right.

But they, they each have their, their fun and their purpose.

So we're looking to buy about 25 in the next three years of these RV parks across the country, strategically within a certain buy box.

But gosh, we were talking to a team just last week because when people find out what we're doing, they're like, oh my gosh, that's fun.

They, this, this software company owner who sold his company wants to help us and basically ramp it up and they want to do more like 50 or 60 parks with everything.

So we'll probably buy a lot.

And then you're always doing a value add much like a house.

You know, you buy it and it's, it's an antiquated asset class.

These people have owned it for what the metric is.

Like 80% of them have owned it for 30 years or more.

And then like 50% of them have owned it for 50 years or more.

It's crazy the amount of time people own these assets.

And so they're old, they need to be revamped.

There's not a lot of innovation that has happened within them.

So it's ripe for that.

And the fact that since COVID has happened, gosh, everyone can work from anywhere.

So they work from everywhere.

So the younger generations, like our 30 year old CTO, his whole demographic, like he lives out of his RV, he's been doing it for a couple years now with his wife and his two dogs.

He's the demographic that can go and work and, and enjoy some of these places.

But then if there is, when there is a recession that hits.

Instead of going to Scotland, for instance, you might be like, let's try and trim our money.

We don't want to go abroad.

Let's just do this really fun thing that's local.

Oh wow.

This resort, this hidden beach resort, the most technologically advanced.

I see all these, these, these testimonials from people online that are loving it.

Gosh, there's thousands of them, right?

We gotta go there.

And so lots of draw for that.

It's, it's a recession resistant type of asset.

But yeah, we're, our plan is to, to showcase everything at the resort, buy all these existing parts, modernize them and then the acquisition, like that's the acquisition arm, our lead generation arm for it all is we're creating a sack ass, we're creating a software as a service.

We're creating basically a Zillow.

But for RV parks, there's no good centralized location.

There's, there's rvpark.com there's, there's about, you know, more than two handfuls of places.

So it's, it's disjointed right now.

So pull that whole marketplace in one, make it look visually appealing because they all kind of suck as it is.

And then not only just buying and selling RV parks, the money solve the money problem for people too.

So invest in the RV parks, invest in the asset, get the capital raisers, get the actual passive investors in there.

And then one more on top of that, do like a monster dot com, build teams.

So all the different people that you might need, hey, I've got a park and I've got these, these skills.

But like you're, you're talking with influencers, they don't have sometimes all the other skills.

They don't have an implementation.

They might be the visionary, but they don't have that integrator, that implementer side of it.

So it's like build your team, get your capital raiser, get your sponsor, get the, all the different people that you need, meet them here, then go get the funding and then buy and sell our parks that are on this, this platform.

So we get some money from that.

But we also get.

When someone says, hey, you know, this is the first, our technology either scrapes it or someone puts a new park for sale on here.

Well, you know, our software is going to go, hey, we're going to send you an email, let's set up a call because we want to buy that thing right there.

Right.

So the lead gen ends up fueling the acquisition arm and then we've got the showcase of the, the hidden beach for the technology that we deploy.

The good stuff that's in the test bed that works, that makes sense for the different locations.

We deploy that in the, the different RV parks that are out there.

Wow.

So that's what I've been kind of stewing on in this last year.

Not really buying properties, doing anything else.

Like that's a full plate right there.

I mean more than a full plate of everything.

That's, that's a big, big deal with a lot of, a lot of stage gates to worry about and capital to raise and, and eyes to dot and cross tea.

Everything.

Like wow, that's, that's a big one.

I mean, yeah, you'd have to give your full effort to.

Wow.

Yeah.

And the sass part of it, like that's coming out in quarter one of this year.

Year.

We've been working on that.

We've got the framework behind it, we got the mock up, we and I host a monthly virtual meetup for those RV park owners and, and everyone that invests in stuff.

And so we've got some beta testers for it as well.

We're going to let them in there for free and like go break stuff, right?

But then we just get some bots that go and scrape all of this, the, the existing transactions and then we can like drum up other ones.

But it's like yeah, make the place.

Make the place where everybody comes together together.

And then it's, it's you at that point, right?

Make the place.

And that's where investor.

And so it's called Investin RV Parks.com is what we have.

And so we're doing this whole, this whole brand.

Invest in RV parks, invest in mobile home parks, invest in self storage, invest in type of big brand that's within that.

My, my CMO cto, he loves that type of stuff.

He's a visionary.

He's more of a visionary than I am.

Like I end up playing more of an implementer role in it and I'm like, so I get my COO to really be the real integrator to run things and then I can be floating around a little bit more.

But yeah, some big stuff.

But in having these conversations with people when they know about what we're creating, like I was saying, it's just like it's, it's been an open floodgate of money.

Like this week alone, Tuesday, I met with three different capital raisers and one of them wants, they're like, hey, anything under 5 million million we got you like, okay.

Because what they're doing is they leverage high net worth individuals that get a warehouse line on stuff that they have so they can get up to $5 million at 4% interest and it's going to have just like either quarterly or annual payment to it.

So as long as they can deploy that into something and get their money back within a two year type of time frame, they're good.

And as long as the, we can pay their, their yearly type, type of principal and interest type of payment, basically just interest on it, they're good.

So they're just trying to deploy that and get their money and they'd love to just get a hold of something that's a little bit of equity into perpetuity.

So they'd love to try and do that and then recycle their money again.

So, so how would you make that interest payment when you're not going to be cash flowing for a couple of years there?

Oh well.

So like Ideally, first off, like this first.

This first round of funding, this first year, I've structured all the debt that's on it.

Like we've got a 506B on it, so people are protected by that.

But I also tie everyone's money individually to a plot in.

In each of this HOA that we have.

It's already plotted out, so I.

Everyone's got their own little chunk of land that secures their money, but we're not making principal and interest payments.

We're just doing a balloon payment and we say it's going to be what I figured.

Okay, so it's different.

So the ones you were talking about, this warehouse line, that's capital you'll bring in later.

Closer.

She said, that's, you know, I mean, these people, they're so comfortable with us.

It's in another group that I'm a part of.

You might have heard of Sub two with Pace Morby.

I didn't know about him until I did, but I joined that a couple months after I joined Raise Masters originally.

It's just a good community.

Really, really helpful.

But yeah, they're cool.

They're in there.

They're like, yeah, we'll lend it to you.

We're.

We're real flexible.

We're like, you know, they're like of all these different things, I'm like, which one do you really.

Usually someone cares about one or two metrics.

More importantly, something they.

That they're firm on, that they won't do a transaction without.

They're like, you know what?

As long as, you know, we got a good feeling from you, we're good as long as the numbers make sense.

Yeah, we're going to ask for lots of documents.

But yeah, if we understand that you, you don't have cash flow with stuff right now, so fine.

So how would we make our payment?

Probably out of the excess money that we got from them.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

You mentioned Hunter earlier from Raise Master.

So I'm in with Hunter in a couple of the ATM funds and I don't know.

Are you familiar with what's going on?

I remember when we were in Raise Masters, he was just, just launching, like he.

It wasn't a thing when I started.

And then he launched them and he's like, oh, lots of depreciation because hard assets and 100.

Yeah, yeah.

If you don't know what's going on with them now.

No, I don't.

I don't get the nitty gritty of that.

So Raise Masters is one of those that it's like you have to pay five figures every year to be a part of it.

So it's not a sub.

Two is one where you pay five figures and then you're in it for life.

And so I'm like, that's a, that's a good bet right there.

But yeah, no.

Why?

So I always, I never liked, I don't know, I never really liked the idea on the surface of those.

That didn't go well.

No.

I mean it's like, is that the capital call one?

No.

So this is why my money will likely never be put into anyone else else's limited partnership deals.

Because you want control out of the.

20, what have I done?

I've done 25 or 27 syndications right around two and a half million somewhere around there.

And that money has probably become worth about a million or less.

It has just been, unfortunately I learned about or not learned, but I really started pushing into LPs, private equity, whatever you want to call these around that 20, 20 time frame name.

And that's when more and more people had become aware of investing in real estate as a limited partner.

Right.

You know, people had known through, through when we were buying single families.

Okay, yeah, buying real estate's good, but not many people, you know, were really private.

You know, private equity wasn't that big of an investing option for, yes, for the ultra high net worth.

But let's call it, you know, your upper class folks, people making six figures with a couple million in net worth worth.

They weren't investing in limited partnerships back in 2012, 2015, 2017, but it starts to become more of a thing.

And then the government prints $9 trillion.

And I think all these characters, a lot of them who we see in social media and maybe off the camera or whatever, we can talk about some of these names, but they all came out and said, oh man, I'm going to be a general partner, I'm going to be a GP and at that point, right, everything I had touched in real estate became silver or gold.

And when I talk to people about real estate, I mean that was the facts, right?

Oh, I'm buying these properties for 35,000, I'm putting 10,000 into them, I'm renting them for a thousand a month.

I burn my money out.

I got a $400 a month mortgage.

I cash flow $450.

And when I say these numbers like that's the Bible and all of us around here, here, right.

And so I just believed people when they talked to me that way about their Resorts about their apartments, about their self storage, about their daycare centers, about their ATM machine, about all this stuff.

I'm like, oh, oh, right.

He's an honest guy like me, right?

He seems like a great guy.

Oh, yep.

Here's 50, here's a hundred and boom.

Every month it was going out there.

And I remember, you know, you know all my Excel.

I love Excel.

You were talking about it earlier like, I'm a six Sigma black, black belt.

So dude, that's pivot table charts and my net worth tracker and income trackers and, and I have my little private equity and I'm like, okay, I know these guys are saying 25, 30 IRRs.

I'm just modeling it at 15.

And whoa, look at this thing that's going crazy on top of my rental cash flow and my flipping and my partnerships here and everything was just sky high and just blowing my mind of where this is going.

And then in 20, 22, 23, the things started to topple, right?

Interest rate.

All these guys, even if they had a solid operational plan, it was so predicated on low interest.

And those bridge loans.

Yep.

Those freaking bridge loans.

Yep.

Never used one, never will.

Yeah.

So everybody, that was the norm at the time.

It's like, and do this so that we can do a value add and either exit, exit or refinance.

Recap it.

And boom.

That was their business model.

And I look at that like, no, I'm not gonna.

And I was dumb.

I was dumb.

I believed these folks.

And I, you don't know, though.

You don't, you don't.

It's, it's hard to, it's hard to like, pull up the, the curtain on all those different things.

It's, it's very difficult, complicated.

And I mean, some people, like, some of the, the ones that are real successful with it, they're.

You're amazing salesman.

You said that you're, you don't like sales, right?

Me neither, man.

Not at all.

That's why I like having an awesome product that people just happen to love buying.

I don't want to have to sell a damn thing.

Right?

And, but no, these people are real good sales.

And, and they'll just funnel you towards funding their thing.

And yeah, that's a, that was a deck of cards.

I, I, I was in Raise Masters when I was watching that happen.

And then I go to Raise Fest every year.

Raise Fest is a hoot, man.

Race Fest is really fun in February.

It's like a, a techno type of dance and lots of good speakers, but you you'd hear the pulse.

And everyone's like, they started to say these things.

Like, oh my gosh, they were saying these things, you know, like, like basically like capital calls are the norm now.

And it's like you don't want to, but you.

Here's how to like break the news to your LPs about the capital.

And I'm like, dude, I have never went back to someone and asked for more money on something.

I'm like, like, that's my first time that I'd really heard about what a capital call was.

Yeah, there's.

I know I heard about them, but I never really thought about it.

And then this one group that I'm in, six of their apartment communities, they had a capital call for insurance.

So in Florida, after the hurricanes two years ago, and I'm like, okay, that makes sense.

Habitation insurance is a yearly premium, not paid monthly.

You have to pay the year in full.

And you only get a 30 day notice of what your new premium is.

And the premiums doubled.

So one community, you know, let's call.

It was a $40,000 premium, it became like 80 or 90.

So they sent out and it was a small, let's call it, I think it was like a 6% capital call.

5 or 6%.

So, okay, if I had a hundred thousand in that investment, I got to send them five or six.

Six.

But I have six investments.

So I had to send, you know, like 25 or 30.

So I wasn't happy about it, but I understood it six months later after Covid.

Right.

So there's lots of stories that we were all being fed.

So sure, it goes up a little bit.

All right, so six months later, a flurry of capital calls comes in debt restructuring, because interest rates have gone up so high.

And I kind of bl.

Like, guys, I mean, six months ago when you were calling for insurance capital calls, why didn't you warn us?

You know, you didn't warn us, like, hey guys, you know, all of our plans were based on 24 month exits of these apartment buildings.

And here we are, we're 24 months, the interest rates are high.

How can you sell this building at a four and a half cap when interest rates are 7%?

Why are you buying it a four?

So, so then that was about a.

I think I had to send like 90,000 across the six buildings.

So I sent, I sent that 90,000 in February of 24.

Okay?

And all those capital calls in the whole two page documents they sent us, this is restructuring.

We're buying a New interest rate cap.

We're going to be set for 24 to 36 months.

Okay, February of 24, they tell us we're going to be set for 24 to 36 months.

Last week I get a PDF capital call for one of those buildings for a 28% capital call.

So they want $39,000 for one building for debt restructuring.

And I, I mean, everyone, all these investors, because we're in the private investor Club forum as well as 506B group.

So there's a lot of great communication in those two groups of only private investors.

And, you know, it's just like complete misappropriation.

And so that's, that's one of the ones that's having these painful capital calls.

But the ATMs, so what's interesting there, they were doing great, right?

They were paying out.

A couple of my buddies went in.

Steve Yoke did not, but Joe Burson did, my buddy Jess down in St.

Pete did.

And yeah, you get 100 depreciation, or when it changed to 80%, you got 80%.

And we were getting a.

What was the cash on?

It was like a 22% payout each year, paying monthly.

So you're getting a nice.

Right.

I remember it was a highway get.

I was getting like 20, 22 or 2400amonth on that 100,000 between two $50,000 investments I did.

And beginning of this year, the.

So prestige was who we invested into and Paramount was who operated the ATM network.

And this guy, Darrell Heller was the head of Paramount.

And so our monthly stopped in like January, February.

And they said, hey, we got to move to quarterly because of this, this, this and this, this.

And that's the first warning flag.

Right?

And I've had a couple other investments where they.

Like AEM.

You heard about AEM up here, right?

The $100 million Ponzi scheme, you know.

Oh, monthly to quarterly.

I got out of that one clean, but I had half a million dollars tied in, tied into a.

And, and notes.

And I got out clean.

Gosh, good.

But so Paramount.

So we gotta, we gotta move to quarterly.

And Dave Zook and Hunter, who are kind of.

They're managing all this capital that was brought together.

They're like, okay, they dug into it and they came out and talked to us and said, guys, there was some ATM regulatory changes, whatever, SEC or whoever, and, and this and that.

So we understand this move to quarterly.

And, you know, we're not going to throw up any warning flags just yet.

Well, they missed the quarterly payment after skipping three Months of monthly.

Oh, and then this goes back and forth with Hunter and Dave.

Dave against Daryl Heller.

What's going on?

Oh, this, this and this.

And then the next thing you know, you know what, we're just buying all you guys out.

Paramount is gonna buy out.

We're gonna buy out your interests and, you know, this and this.

And all of us investors are just like, well, this isn't what we're in for, but like, this is kind of shady.

And so anyhow, they, they're like, you know, we're gonna end up buying you out at, you know, you're gonna make like 15 on this deal and.

Oh, it is what it is.

Well, they end up coming up with an offer to buy us out at basically like 0%.

So we're just going to get back our remaining principle.

And we had to vote on it.

And the votes all passed because, you know, people were just like, hey, let's just get my money back.

We don't know what's going on.

Yeah, so they made, they made commitments to buy us out in two payments that were supposed to happen in October, November.

And so Dave and Hunter are like the spearhead of this legal team that is working with Paramount and has filed suit against them and everything.

And, and they missed their first payment.

And so Hunter and Dave and the legal team are like, okay, you missed your payment.

And they put all these.

I told, and I believe Dave and Hunter, hey, we got a lot of things out of it.

So they like basically signed away all their rights.

Like you get default judgments, you get this, this and this.

If we don't send you all of your money, money on November 15th or something, you know, instead of two payments, you're going to get it all on November 15th.

Well, money never comes on November 15th.

So we get a hundred and thirty million dollar default judgment against Paramount and control of the ATM network, which now they're in contempt of court because they haven't handed over.

And I mean, imagine control of a, I don't know, a 40,000 ATM network.

Like, what the hell does that even look like?

Like what, like what are you guys.

Gonna do with it?

Yeah, who's gonna pick that up again?

So that's where Hunt.

I mean, that's where ATM for their home.

Hunter and Dave are like, you know, they've got a legal team and they've got an ATM operator.

But like, you need to get access to the.

I mean, imagine 40,000 machines that are sending in fee, like pulling money from banks and sending fees to here because that's how you make money is the feedback fees.

Yeah, but like, you know, and then here's the other thing I'm wondering.

This Paramount company, I mean I'm assuming they had access to the cash in the ATM machines.

I mean are we going to hear next week that when we finally, you know, or next, whenever we get finally control of these machines, are we going to find out, dude, they're empty.

And, and this Daryl Heller I just saw in Dave Zook's Dave and Hunter's update yesterday.

FBI and SEC just raided his house in office.

This.

So I mean this has all happened pretty quickly of us getting control.

But I'm like, dude, what if they've just emptied out 40,000 ATM machines that each had, you know, I don't know, 5010.

I don't know how much money an ATM machine has in it.

Now that money's insured.

But I, I don't know.

Is, is it, is it?

I don't.

Probably not fdic because it's not a bank.

No, but it's insured.

There is some type of insurance that's on that money so that if somebody goes.

Steals your atm, if someone were to steal it.

But what if the company just misappropriates?

So this is where exclusion insurance companies are great at exclusion now but I don't want to go down that path for you, man.

So this is.

I was reading this yesterday and I'm just like, you know, I've had just horrible operations and capital calls.

I have three plots of dirt that I invested in two years ago that were supposed to be self storage builds with somebody, you know, who's pretty active on social that you may know who.

They just, no, they didn't get through their permits and this and this and this.

And by the time they finally got them, the interest rates are crazy.

They can't finance the rest of these builds.

So I own three pieces of dirt that were supposed to be self storage builds.

G.

I mean I was in a true legitimate Ponzi scheme that the SEC has locked down and they did pull.

They found $60 million.

So me and Rich Fowler.

Rich Fowler got me into that.

The oil in the gas one.

Yep, yep, yep.

That was, I remember hearing about that and getting a little excited going home and, and I mentioned it to even Monique and she's like what are you, what, you've never mentioned oil and gas before?

And I'm like yeah, but like blah, blah, blah.

Depreciation, right?

Yeah, depreciation.

All of this diversification, right.

Divers.

This looks amazing on paper yes.

Because it's just on paper.

Holy smokes.

And like.

Yeah.

And.

Go on.

So it's just, it's so painful.

You know, most times I reflect, you know, I reflect a lot.

Like, I'm sure you, you do.

And I remember right.

20, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, you know, oh, would I go back and start the year over?

I wouldn't, man.

I did a lot, right.

I, I grew my net worth by 6, 7 figures.

I added 20 houses.

I did this, this.

We bought a trampoline park.

I'm invested in these.

Like, no.

Did a lot of work.

You know, I don't, I wouldn't want to go back and, and would I go back to 2020 and have two and a half million dollars in my bank account and just buy another 50 single famil and probably put in place a property manager and Absolutely.

I would go back and say, Zach, quit looking at those butterflies of so, you know, sexy.

Oh, self storage, daycare centers, resorts.

I got, I'm in a resort in St.

Croix.

Like, okay, I get to go stay for free.

But I don't know, you know, we've been trying to sell it.

I mean, it seems that the value is worth it, but now at interest rates and how many people are buying resorts in St.

Croix?

So that's why I'm just like, hey, I know Ohio real estate and I'm never, I can't imagine regretting like, ever.

Why did I buy so many properties?

Like, okay, you can sell them easily.

They cash flow like crazy.

Yeah.

I think I'm just going to stick to the things that are easy and cannot go to zero.

Like seven figures has gone in the last two years.

Yeah, gosh, yeah.

That is, that is absolute.

You never like hearing that, man.

But that, then, you know, to, to, to show the gratitude side.

My buddy Joe Burson worked golfing last, last year.

No, not this path.

It been two summers ago when I was, I was bitching about this $500,000 promissary note loss that I have here locally that I'm, you know, I have a giant lawsuit on two guys.

They declared bankruptcy.

So now I got to take them.

I have to now sue them again and file to bankruptcy court.

So I got to throw another $10,000 retainer and go back and, and attack them in bankruptcy court.

But they're finally out of my money.

So they don't have, they shouldn't have any money to pay retainers.

So because they use my money to defend against me in this first court, you know, they, But I think They've blown through all my money, so now I'll go there.

But we're out golfing, and, you know, I'm just.

I'm down, right down in the Dom.

So these guys stole my money.

I'm in this Ponzi scheme.

This thing sucks and throws his arm.

Zach, how many people have the opportunity to lose a million dollars and still be out at the country club golfing on a Wednesday?

You bought a place in Florida, and it was like, joe, I need.

I need more of this.

I need more Joe all the time to just remind us how fortunate we are.

Even given the challenges that happen to us when we're being a driven producer, taking risks, we still just got to reflect that, man.

We're still more fortunate than 98, 99 of the people out there, and we can't forget.

Get that dude all the time, man.

I know.

And so, yeah, I love hearing that from you, too, because that's.

That's the truth.

And it's.

Every day I go to bed with.

I've got this.

I.

I stare at one of my screens, Got my little boy right on there.

His.

His smile is just It.

It warms my heart.

I'm grateful that I can be present and home with him.

Are you kidding me?

Like, so many people are working all the time, so every moment that I get, I'm like, hey, I'm not coming home.

And then being like, hey, hey, I know you want me.

Like, I'm gonna go off and.

And do my thing.

No, I get to take breaks.

I take slow mornings and just enjoy time with all of them.

Do whatever I want.

Treat a Tuesday like a Sunday.

A Sunday like a Tuesday, if I want.

And don't get me wrong, I mean, I'll.

I'll work on things, but, like, being grateful for that.

Being grateful.

The fact that.

Yeah, that.

That I can take a year off of making money.

Money from anything, just to put my head together with other people to build this thing that we're building just in concept before even buying the land.

Like, a year off of just doing nothing completely.

You know, to know that I would be able to take months off when my wife was giving birth and.

And she gave birth in our living room.

And I remember hearing that.

Yeah, right in there.

Right.

And the second one's going to be right there, too.

But it's like, I knew that I don't have to ask anybody.

I don't have to ask for vacation or worry what the policy is or look it up.

No, I'm.

I'm in Control of my own fate, for better or for worse.

Right.

And the, the real estate university that we created turned into a flop.

And that's okay, right?

And lots of things that ended up doing along the way didn't what happens.

And partnerships are.

Yeah.

And so, so, my gosh, so many.

All those lessons that I've learned throughout that now with this resort that we're building, we use the book called Traction.

I mentioned that one to you.

The EOs.

Yeah, you've got that too.

So I'm leading my whole team through that because when I was interviewing CFOs, one of them in the past, he's like, I require this of everyone that I work with, is that we go through this.

And I'm like, well, oh well, if this smart dude is saying that he requires this, I'll look into it at least, right?

And so we looked into it and we're like, hey, let's do this.

And so everyone read it, we're going through and it's like, this is amazing.

This is great.

Now I'm doing that for all my businesses.

But.

And our operating agreement, it took, you know, probably two months for us to iron out all the details of that, but we understand it now.

And it, it's like, I, I, there's another people that I mentor, they, I mean, just for free, they, whatever.

So no liability or anything.

But, you know, they were going off and they were starting and they're getting their first deal together.

Four of them went in on a flip together.

And of course, two of them aren't working well with the other two.

And you know, not all of them have money, not all of them put in time and they're creating friction.

I was like, well, do you have any type of agreement?

No, we don't have anything.

Lesson learned for next, next time, talk about those things.

Work them out.

We learned from all this.

I mean, so I loved my, my wife, so she says so many of these, these little things that are so great and, and so helpful for us getting out of our stories in our head, right?

The stories of, oh, this always happens to me.

I'll living in this negativity of something.

She put a little sticky note, just like, you know, little sticky note on my desk that said energy before action.

And she put it on this thing worksheet that she wanted me to do.

I'm like, okay, cool, right?

And I, I put it off and I moved it aside for a few days and then I finally did it.

Because she's like, you know, you got some things in Your past, like, all these different traumas.

Your.

Your wife, you know, your.

Your divorce, this.

The businesses, some things she's like, that's really holding you back.

I can.

I can feel it from you.

Like, okay, so I do that.

This exercise.

It's the Hope Owen prayer.

It's this Hawaiian type of prayer exercise.

Have you ever heard of that?

It's a really cool thing.

Really cool thing, man.

Takes 45 minutes.

Wish I had done it days earlier, years earlier, if I'd known about it.

But that's hopo on a prayer.

So it's like, all right, you go and you write down for.

I think it's like 10 minutes.

No, it's actually till you feel complete, but probably about 10 minutes.

Write down on a piece of paper, like one whole side line.

Piece of paper, whatever, whatever.

Maybe 25 lines.

All the things that, like, have been bad that have happened to you in.

In your past.

Like, you know, my.

My wife divorcing me and all of this.

Me for letting it get to that situation and all of this, my business partner that was, you know, messed up the situation.

But then I'm always, like, reflecting on myself.

It's like, me for not seeing that sooner and all these different things, all these.

These things that have happened, you know, even being diagnosed.

Diagnosed with ms, put all these things on there.

And then you go through and you read that line aloud to yourself.

And so you say, all right, my.

My wife for, you know, everything bad and.

And the divorce with my wife.

And you say this.

This little prayer that basically is, thank you.

I.

I forgive you, I love you, and I'm sorry.

Those four things.

Thank you.

I forgive you, I love you, and I'm sorry.

So, like, I would say that out loud.

So it's like you.

You picture.

You close your eyes and you're like, you picture your.

Your wife.

My.

My.

My wife in this situation.

I'm.

I'm saying, you know, for.

For everything that happened in the divorce, thank you.

I appreciate you.

I.

I forgive you.

Thank you.

I.

I forgive you.

I love you, and I'm sorry.

Right.

So take some ownership, show some appreciation.

Do all of that.

And then like, the line item, that's like, me for getting myself into that situation.

Visualize talking to my previous yourself and.

And giving that.

That love to yourself, that forgiveness to yourself, that.

That thanking to yourself.

Because all of those things got us to where we are right now.

You would not be this person where you are now if it wasn't for all of that and going through this exercise.

It was probably 25 line items that I did.

Saying it out loud because it reinforces things when you do that.

There's a sense of.

And just a clearing that happened after just that simple exercise that I like.

Whoa.

Like, even right now, I've got goosebumps as I'm.

I'm visualizing and going through it.

That it just.

It cleared up that, that thing.

Because it's.

It's in your.

Your subconscious.

It's just going on and on.

It cleared up those little stories that you might have just suppressed.

Like, I.

I suppressed these little stories.

That's what men are so great at.

Right?

We'll.

We'll push things down.

I don't have to deal with that.

You know, I.

I can get over that.

But then you wake up at 3am and you're.

You're worried about things, these fears, because you haven't cleared them, you haven't dealt with with them.

They're just.

They're energy leaks that you have.

And going through that exercise, it was just like, wow, I feel so much lighter, so much happier, so much capable, so much more inspired, so much more energized to just go and attack everything that I want to attack right now.

Like, I feel.

I feel great.

I don't feel stagnant.

And there's so many little exercises like that that ended up helping me do.

I'm so.

I guess you.

You mentioned if I have a podcast, I.

I kind of forgot that my.

That Monique and I ended up having a podcast every week for.

It was the 34 weeks previous until she had Maverick.

And we would just sit right here and we would talk about.

It was the Energetic Alignment and Mindset podcast.

And so Energetic Alignment is her thing.

Mindset is kind of my, like, practical application of it.

Yeah.

And she would end up spitting off some of this stuff like, I didn't even know what an energy healer was for a year into dating her.

But so in having this podcast, it was just us.

And we had live people the whole time, lots of live people.

And so we had an audience to ask some questions.

But I would always play that person of like, all right, you just said a lot of really smart, interesting things.

I don't get that.

Like, I'm that bystander.

That's that new person.

And, like, I don't get that.

Or, like, use me as an example, because no one minds if we pick on me in this situation.

Right.

So let's use me in this situation as an example and go through it.

And we ended up connecting so much, and we Ended up healing lots of things within that.

I.

I loved that.

That was.

That was a wonderful experience.

And it's just the more I learned about energetic alignment and.

And, gosh, all those things that we never learn about.

It's just like, I want to meet more people that dig that, that, like, that kind that are interested in that just, you know, elevating themselves and not being stagnant and not.

Not allowing the status quo to continue.

It was.

It was a lot.

A lot of fun in preparation for Little Maverick, so that, you know, I've got to give thanks and love and appreciation for all of that, and sorry for the times where we would get at each other's throats beforehand, because it'd.

Be like, all right, we got to.

Do this podcast today again.

It's like, come on, you have that thing ready?

Did you do that thing?

Do you've got the itinerary?

What we're doing?

Are we doing this, like, right?

We almost.

We'd almost fight a little bit before, like, okay, everybody, here we go.

See that?

No, but we even made a rule.

I wrote it into our process, like, right before, because I have process, so I'm like, click this, make sure that thing goes live.

Stream, streamyard this, make sure you're there.

All of that.

And then.

Okay, we kiss.

Okay.

You know, like, connect and iterate and get a little bit better every day.

Just a little bit better all the time.

And a little more patience right there.

The slight edge, incremental every day improvement.

Have you read that by Jeff Olson?

No, that's.

That's my favorite.

You know, it's about that 1% every day.

And, you know, you've seen a number.

What's 1% squared?

What's 1.01, you know, or to the 365 power.

And.

Yeah, I love his.

His kind of parables in there about, you know, a flight that leaves New York to LA, if it's 1% off course, it lands, like, 95 miles away, away from LA.

And, you know, it talks about.

I mean, you could look at that thing as, like, your health and fitness, your marriage, your faith, your business.

If you're going at 1% down per day on any of those areas, where are you at the end of the year in all those categories?

Right.

All those pillars, or if you're focusing on them, 1%, you know, 1% on your nutrition, your health, your marriage.

A day.

What happened?

How much have you improved that at the end of the month?

At the end of the year?

It's huge.

But.

All right.

My kids are gonna be getting home from the bus now that we've gone two hours into this.

But hey, I want to definitely sometime here in the early future, you know, get back in more and like the health and fitness and the purpose living and less business and more kind of the.

All the other areas where I think we could have good dialogue and see what tips and tactics we can pull from each other.

But yeah, this has been great.

I mean, I have not.

This is like longer than a Huberman Lab podcast.

I think we've.

We've gone past his hour and a half, but he's gone to and look a bunch of his podcasts.

But this is good.

I appreciate it.

And yeah, we'll come up with our list for other things and definitely hang out a lot more before.

Between now and then.

If you're ever looking to get down to the sun, come and join us down to St.

Pete.

Yeah, well, I don't know that I could do it without my wife.

She.

She.

She's the one that probably loves sun more than I do, so have to be.

We'll have to make it.

Oh, no, this is a business thing.

Right.

And normally, normally she'll tag along anyway.

Well, see, because my kids call it business.

See, my.

I mean, my kids are in school, so my wife has to stay here.

Yeah.

So this is why it's me, you know, and I go down like, normally like a Monday to Thursday so that I'm home for the weekends and things.

Monday to Friday.

This week's Sunday to Thursday, but a little break for some business stuff.

But, but yeah, man, I mean, I'm open minded to all that because.

Yeah, great conversation.

Appreciate it.

I love that, you know, you still want to hit on other things because it's that important to you.

It's that important to.

Should be that important to everyone.

Right?

And so, yeah, I dig it, man.

Appreciate you.

Great.

All right, thanks, everybody for joining us.

Zach, how can people connect with you?

You can find me on Facebook, Zach Hoy, Instagram on there.

Zach Hoyt, real estate or gosh, I don't know, wherever this is here.

Make sure we'll put a little link so that.

Yeah.

In the show notes.

Yep, we'll have everything in the show notes.

We'll have a link.

Link so that people can connect with me.

But yeah, if you're interested in being a part of this most technologically advanced RV resort in the world, please hit me up.

We've got different fun phases for it right now.

We're even giving people 20 years of free stays for us.

Aside from the money, we just want cool people to come and hang out at this place, give us feedback, and to come and spend time with their family.

That's.

That's literally like.

It's.

It's one why we're creating it.

And so I'd love for other people to make those awesome memories as well.

That's the whole point.

Thank you.

Great.

Great.

All right, guys, you can connect with Zach.

Everything will be in the show notes, and you'll hear us again in a future podcast.

So thanks for joining us.

Don't forget to rate and review.