What does it take to build a brand that stands out in a crowded market

today I'm joined by branding expert, VAR deep Edwards to discuss branding.

We'll cover the importance of understanding and developing your

brand and look at how you can build a real connection with people.

In this episode of architecture business club, the weekly podcast

for solo and small firm architecture, practice owners, just like you who want

to build a profitable future proof.

Architecture business that fits around their life.

I'm John Clayton, your host.

If you're a small practice leader or sole practitioner in architecture,

struggling to find clarity or reach your goals, consider working with me.

I have a personalized one-to-one support through coaching consulting and mentoring.

This tailored approach helps you navigate your unique path to success.

Uh, whether it's growing a practice working few hours or building

your team, I've got you covered.

Just click the link in the show notes to book a call with me to discuss your

options or email Jon that's J O N.

At architecture business club.com for more information now let's discuss branding.

Vardeep Edwards is the founder of The Branding Fox, a brand development

and design studio dedicated to your brand's transformation.

She has over 20 years of experience and has worked with the likes of

Odeon, Marie Curie, Pentagram and eMap, helping growing businesses

with their branding and design needs.

Vardit believes that creating a brand foundation is crucial

for your business to grow.

She can help you translate this concept into an impactful and purposeful brand

identity so that you have clarity on your brand, your positioning, and

how to attract your dream clients.

To start your brand transformation, head over to TheBrandingFox.

com to download your free copy of 5 Things Every Great Brand Needs.

Vadeep, welcome to Architecture Business

Oh, thank you, John.

Thank you for the intro and, uh, yeah, thank you for having me on your show.

Oh, you're very welcome.

Vadeep, I was trying to have a little think before we hit record.

I'm thinking back to how we first met.

Can you remember where we first met?

Am I right in thinking it was a Janet Murray related?

Event or membership, maybe, I think.

Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure it was, I'm pretty sure there

was an event that Janet did, a conference, which I think was in.

Northampton, I think and I'm almost certain that we've met in person

for the first time at that event and I guess we might have possibly

connected online before that.

Yeah.

I mean, that was pre COVID, I think that event and, um, yeah, and obviously things

changed in terms of events and networking for a little while, but, um, yeah, I think

that was possibly where we first met.

And I think we, and like you say, we have met since a couple of other

events and one just earlier this year, which is Atomicon, I believe.

And, I believe it was online first potentially, and then, yeah,

meeting on the networking events.

Yep.

It's such a good way to, to meet people.

And online is cool, but I'd like, Meeting in people in person,

I think is really special.

So, um, today we're, we're going to talk about branding.

So we're going to talk about branding.

So that architecture practice owners can communicate their

brands with more confidence.

So why do we, why do we need a brand anyway, Vardik?

Why do you think we need a brand?

So there's lots of definitions about what a brand is out

there and, uh, some of those are based around the reputation of a business,

how they're perceived, uh, the meaning behind who they are as a brand and

the experience they're creating.

And if we, if we're looking at some of those definitions and what that

means as a brand, then we've all got one because People will be making

judgments about who we are as a brand.

They will be part of our experience in some respect.

We would have some sort of reputation and meaning behind what we're doing.

Everybody has got a brand.

So it's a case of being able to shape and slightly influence that

brand to be what you want it to be.

But also it's, it's about that loyalty to brands as well.

And why, why some people might buy from certain brands over.

other choices as well.

And some of those decisions are not entirely logical.

And they might be more tied to the emotional response or subconscious.

So there's a famous quote, I think it's like 95 percent of people

buy with their subconscious brain.

And then it's backed up with the conscious brain and the logical side of things.

um, when you're thinking about buying certain brands, you know,

we can use Apple, for example.

There's a divide of those.

people who will only ever buy from Apple, regardless of what other features and

benefits and tech specs there might be of similar other products from their

competitors, who on paper might actually look better than the Apple option,

but they will still buy from Apple.

And when you start digging into why that is, it comes down to their branding

because it's almost It's almost like they can, they can almost say what they want

to say or not say what they want to say.

Their decisions aren't going to be affected by that.

So I just believe that branding and that, that connection with brands works on

a deeper level and um, it's not always something we're consciously aware of.

That's really interesting.

I mean, I think particularly when you think of brands, like, I mean,

Apple, it's a great example, isn't it?

That in some instances, these brands have almost like cult like

followings, like this, there's so much loyalty to those brands.

And it is quite astounding in some instances.

So when it comes to our own brands though, um, how can we define Our brand identity.

I suppose this comes with clarifying some of the definitions

just to sort of make sure that we're on the same page because I think

sometimes Brand branding kind of gets coupled with the logo, for example.

I know a lot of people know the brand isn't a logo these days.

But quite often when people say, Oh, I need some help, my branding,

it tends to be visual related.

So one of the analogies that I quite like to use is to, to think of your house,

because there's terms like brand branding.

Brand identity and even brand strategy as well.

So, in terms of like your, your strategy, I would sort of

liken that to your foundations.

It's kind of what holds everything up.

And it's, it's the stuff underneath that you won't always necessarily

see or be obvious enough anyway.

And then in terms of.

Like the visual side of things.

It's kind of how you style your homes.

It'll be the colors, you know, the furniture you put in there, uh,

the textures, the wallpapers, the carpets, how you lay everything out.

It's things that you can see.

I call that brand identity generally, which, but it is

essentially a visual identity.

But you've also got then the feeling of how you are.

in that home.

And you can create that atmosphere or what that vibe,

you know, that feeling might be.

And that kind of comes down to then the building blocks of your brand.

And when enough people come to the same or similar conclusions of how

they feel, it's, then you're said to have a brand because enough

people are saying the same thing.

So I suppose defining those elements of what that is, but you've also got

things like your tone and your, you know, tone of voice, your visual, uh, your

messaging and just sort of key identifiers and that kind of starts scoping into.

What makes you different how you kind of speak, and it's to do with all

the different elements of your brand that kind of make up everything,

if that makes sense, because you could have the same objects in a

different house, but it feels good.

It does so many different aspects to building a brand that it's

trying to sort of make sense of it and how it makes sense together.

And I kind of liken it to building a home, which is probably

quite relevant to, um, to the architecture based podcast of yours.

Hmm.

Absolutely.

No, I'd love a house building analogy.

I think you've, you've explained that really well.

That's a really, really good way to explain everything.

I think one of the key things that I understand about this is that, I mean,

Knowing your audience and understanding them is, is critical, isn't it?

When it comes to sort of developing and refining your brand.

So how can we better understand our audience and learn, where they hang

out and, um, what makes them tick?

What would you suggest?

yeah, absolutely.

You need to know your audience and who you're talking to because

essentially they're going to be building the brand for you.

And therefore, yeah, absolutely knowing who they are and why they're going to

connect with your brand is really key and also not connect with your brand.

in terms of finding out how best to understand them, it's, it's research

and talking to people, I believe.

And, you know, you might not have all the answers.

straight off or you might not have all the answers all the time and

your audience may evolve and adapt and tweak along the way as well.

So I do believe this is always something that needs to be worked on and involved

and adapted and improved as you go.

That's the nature of building business.

Yeah.

Everything adapts and evolves, doesn't it?

As you go.

But yeah, in terms of understanding them better is I think talking to

people is one of the best ways actually.

And that can be done through interviews, through surveys, one on ones networking.

going to speak to people at events if, if their target audience are there.

Um, having one on one interviews like this, video interviews

as well is really insightful.

Um, surveys also very good, but also you can do a bit of stalking

and research online as well.

You know, we've got so much information at our fingertips and

especially on social media as well.

And it's you know, digging in and really getting to understand who they are,

what their pain points are, why they might need your service, uh, where that

service fits in their lives and when they might need it, how, you know, there's

lots of information and, but I think some of that will also come out of being

really clear on who your target audience are because you could look at certain

insights and information online, but it might not be relevant for you because

they're not quite the right people.

target audience or don't quite fit that profile.

So I suppose it's getting clear on who exactly that person is first, so that

you can arm yourself with the right tools to be able to do that research.

Yeah.

And I think, um, I mean, ultimately this is about having more conversations and

just simply asking the audience, you know, sort of just having conversations

and asking curious questions to, to get to understand them better, whether

that's via a survey or a conversation on zoom or an in person networking event.

Yeah, so it's probably, that's probably simpler than we, maybe we

realize we just need to actually do more of it to better understand them.

Yeah, absolutely.

And honestly, I really I rate having conversations highly.

I think, there's something quite nice if you've got a physical shop, for

example, or some sort of physical presence, even, you know, I've worked

in market stores before and it's a great way to, to research and speak with

your potential clients because you're actually having these conversations

one on one and it's just part of a normal, a normal chat rather than

feeling like you're questioning or surveying them, which puts, can tend to

put people in a different position in terms of giving some of those answers.

No.

if we can keep it quite, uh, friendly and conversational,

then, um, you're going to likely to get, uh, more from people, I think.

So, something I wanted to ask actually was about Bringing more of our personality

across like, um, because I think that's something that people really connect with.

we actually did a episode recently about personal branding and

this kind of interlinks nicely actually with this conversation.

How can we bring more of our personalities into our content?

Yeah, so interestingly, um, personal branding, but then

you've also got the personality of your brands, which can be, you know,

slightly different for one another, because if you think about some of

the big personal brands, there's Richard Branson's quite good example.

Oprah Winfrey is also a very good example, where they've got an incredibly strong,

famous, and well known, influential personal brands in themselves, but they've

also got a portfolio of brands which is tied to their personal brand, but they a

slightly different, you know, we will go on Virgin or we'll go on some of Oprah

Winfrey's products and know that it's not completely about that particular person.

It's about the business of that brand.

So, um, in terms of bringing your personality, So how to

bring that into your content.

I mean, people are going to bring Connect and buy with people so that there is the

validity in bringing your personality into that content people want to know

who that person is behind that brand.

So it's about showcasing and it's about showcasing what you're comfortable with.

I think it's not a case of showing everything that you are about.

And it's also about a bit of strategy in terms of what you

would like to be known for.

What you would like people to say about you, you know, and bringing that into

your content in some way, because also that's going to help differentiate you.

And bring out your uniqueness and it will start to connect a bit more emotionally

because people have something that they might relate to or understand

from their own personal experience.

But in terms of the, you know, the branding of businesses, you know,

the personal brands for those, you know, for the well known personal

brands, they, it does help to boost.

their own business brands as well, but the business brands

have their own personality.

So that may or may not be tied with your personal brand, depends on what that is.

But that, that kind of needs a bit of shape and defining and

bringing that into your content.

So MailChimp is a really good example of this, I think.

So they don't really have a personal brand tied.

There's not one particular Influencer or person tied to their brand, but

Mailchimp themselves have got a really strong brand personality.

They're quite fun, they're creative, they're quirky, and you can see that

in their messaging, their voice, their content, the way their visuals look.

So, um, Yeah, there's quite a few different ways of, um, so it hasn't

quite completely sort of answered your question with like a very

straight black and white response,

it's okay.

It's okay.

No, it's sort of opening up the conversation about it.

I guess what would be interesting though, is like if you are, uh, for

example, if you're working with one of your clients and it's a small company

and they're looking at refreshing their brands, how much does the, in terms of

kind of trying to redefine that brand.

How much of an impact does if, for example, they did have somebody in that

business, maybe the founder who was either a big personality or had been doing

some work to be more visible and maybe how, you know, has a personal brands.

of some kind already.

Does that have, then have an influence on the development of the company brand so

that even though they're potentially still going to have differences, that there

is still some synergy between the two?

Does that kind of make sense?

That,

yeah, absolutely and I believe that People are

generally nosy, so they want to know who's behind that business.

So the more you can share a bit of who you are you know, and what you're like

on a personal basis, I think is a really good way and it's about connection and

it's about being remembered as well.

People will remember the personal brands over the business brands generally.

And, and also they tend to be bigger.

Then the business brands, if they're founder led, in that respect.

So absolutely it can enhance.

The, you know, the perception of that business and the branding of that

business, um, but also the employees don't have, I'd say, and a part in

that as well, because you can, they can also have their own personal brands,

which helps to reinforce that business.

Um, you know, and there's a culture and there's like a behind the scenes and

there's a whole, you know, it starts leaning into the story around what

that brand is, but it's also their own.

Personal stories.

Um, and I think that's where we're connecting is on the story level in terms

of using your personal brand in that way.

In essence, then like a really great, uh, company brands would,

there would be some synergy and alignment between, uh, the, the company culture and

the, the mission that the company's on.

And even as we say about the, The personal brands, if there's people

that are building their personal brand within that business, that there's

some alignment there too, because, I mean, it could otherwise be, um,

what would be the word incongruent.

I think that's the word, isn't it?

Let's say you had like a really like, corporate sort of professional

type brands, company brands.

And then you had a really kind of quirky, you know, quirky kind of fun, informal,

little bit cheeky sort of founder.

And it was really visible or vice versa.

There could be this sort of disconnect between the two

that might be a bit strange.

So, yeah.

And as you say, it doesn't have to be.

Exactly the same but but there would be some kind of connection and

synergy ideally between those things

Yeah.

And I think you've raised the point about values is a really important point

because I think, yeah, when quite often, and it has been, There's been some stats

around that be rising in terms of people wanting to work for companies who have

shared values with their own as well.

And that can be a driving force as well to be for recruitment

for certain businesses as well.

And also with staff retainment and staff retention as well, because if you've got

an alignment with your personal values as well as the company values and the

mission, and you believe in their mission and their vision, it's a really nice.

Synergy, like you've put it in terms of being a good fit.

so therefore when they are communicating in a personal brand level is very

much connected to what they're doing on a business level as well.

And that, you know, that creates a nice harmony as it were in our

brains when we're kind of receiving content from both of those sources.

Mm hmm.

makes sense.

So, I want you to talk a little bit about content creation.

When we talk about content, things like could be videos, blogs, social

media, posts, short form content, podcasts, all those sorts of things.

That can be a good way to help build some visibility for your brand.

I just wondered if you had any, content ideas for any.

business owners out there that might be a little bit unsure where to start and maybe

they are struggling for some ideas or don't know what to say in their content.

Do you have any suggestions for them?

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Now, back to the show.

yeah, absolutely.

So I think there's, you know, there's two different types of content.

I w I would say it's a short form and long form content.

So long form, yeah.

Like these podcasts, for example, or blogs or videos, short form are perhaps more.

Like social media snippets and bits and pieces of information.

And I think one of the key things to remember about creating content

is nobody will see all your content.

And also the way we consume content is different now to even,

you know, five, 10 years ago.

So we would get snippets and bite sizes of different pieces of information about you.

It might be, you know, it might be a social media post, it might be a story,

might be a video, it might be commenting on somebody else's, uh, you might be

podcast, or you might be hosting a webinar, or a workshop, or an event, you

might be out networking, you know, you might be blogging, there's all sorts of

different ways of creating and for your audience to receive that content as well.

And I think from my own experience, and what I, you know, speaking for the

people or what They get stuck on not knowing how to create a way to start

with their content is it can feel quite overwhelming because it feels

like there's loads you've got to do or suddenly you've got to write a blog

every day or something silly like that.

but I think in this day and age, we can't get away from not creating any content.

I think it's expected of us as business owners and as brands.

And if you're not being visible, as much or not creating consistent

or relevant or even more up to date content, unfortunately, what that

means is that we don't necessarily show up in front of other people,

especially online, I believe.

So, In terms of knowing what to say or what to post, I find the easiest thing

to start off with is, you know, things you're working on or what you're doing.

It's not a case of having to go out and do research on a load of

articles and, you know, and, and trying to put that into some sort of

long form content initially anyway.

I believe some of the easiest way to start is to get, do something

quicker and easier so you get into the habit and the pattern of creating

that content in the first place.

And then it's, I think it's approaching it with curiosity because I think sometimes

in terms of long form content, You know, and, and again, it's using my own

experience on what I've, I've come across.

It might feel like suddenly you've got to have all the

answers to this big, long topic.

And, um, I don't believe that's ever the case because you could, you could do all

the research and write a really wonderful piece or an article about something.

But maybe next week it will change, who knows.

So I think it's more about approaching it with a bit of curiosity and

opening up that conversation.

So rather than being, I've got to have all this wonderful content and it's got

to be perfect, it's more about, well, I wonder what this is about or, you

know, or, uh, and in terms of the short form and work, what you're working on,

just, it allows people to, a little bit of insight into Who you are, what

you're doing, how you help your clients.

And, you know, that's really valuable actually.

And I think maybe we overlook that sometimes as business owners,

because it's just something we do in a, on a day to day basis.

But, um, yeah.

I think that's that's a really good idea Vardit because

behind the scenes content is a great way to Build that no like and trust

that people can get on what we do in our day to day work that we might

think is not particularly interesting.

Maybe that other people would be fascinated by it.

So to be able to give them a few little snippets, whether it's just a a quick

photo of what you're working on, or in the case of architects, it might be

a snapshot of a drawings that are in progress, or it could be them at the desk

Yep.

could be a quick, uh, real short video if you're feeling brave

enough that you post on Instagram stories.

But that is a good way that you can create content without having to spend.

really any time planning it.

And it's actually being created while you're, you're doing something that

you're already going to be doing anyway, because you're already planned

to do whatever work you had that day.

And you're just sharing a few little snippets from it to just give

people a look behind the curtain so that they can see what's going on.

So I think that, yeah, it's a really good idea, Vardy.

Thanks for sharing that.

no, I'm glad that's helpful.

Yeah, so how can we, how do you think we can create an

emotional connection with our audience?

We sort of touched upon that a little bit there actually, I think with the

behind the scenes stuff, but do you have any other thoughts on that, about

creating that emotional connection?

So I, I think it's just, it's about building relationships.

And I say that because I, I believe that's what businesses are built on generally.

And, you know, and it, and it's approaching that in the same way in,

in connecting with your audience.

So rather than thinking about how to sell.

To people or you know selling your own products or services.

It's about building relationships because then you're thinking about that

connection piece rather than trying to sell to them and You know liking it but

to dating, you know Because if you're if you're dating or if you're meeting even

if it's not dating and you're networking and you're meeting people for the first

time You know You're not going to jump in there and go, Hi, I'm so and so.

And by the way, I've got this amazing offer that I think, you

know, you will love and, you know, about you, but I do get quite a

few of those messages on LinkedIn.

and all I want to do is delete you know, that's not going to work in real life as

much as it doesn't work online either.

So it's, um, it's about building up.

to that know, like and trust factor.

People aren't going to know, like and trust you from the first instance,

the second, the third, fourth, fifth.

You know, I think there is some sort of stat, isn't there?

Now, it used to be something like seven or eight touch points, but I

believe it's actually higher now.

And I think that's to do with the way we consume information and the fact that

there is so much information out there.

So therefore, what that means is that relationship building piece, with your

audience is potentially going to take longer because one it's fighting against

lots of other information in their their lives um you're kind of cut through

more noise so they may not even get your content or piece of information Or

understand it in the first few instances.

And it just takes time to build those sort of relationships.

But it's also, again, you know, it is, it is knowing, knowing your

audience and doing, if you're doing the research piece alongside, building

those relationships that can only strengthen and improve over time.

That's so true.

The the statistic that I'd heard, I think it was from a study done with Google.

Um, there was an ebook, Zero Moments of Truth, I

Yeah, I've heard of

And that talked about before general consumer in today's age

is ready to buy a product or service that there are typically 11 touch points in,

uh, seven, seven hours of engagement.

And Across four different places.

I mean, that's a heck of a lot, isn't it?

When you think about it.

Yeah.

And it, and it takes time, you know, and the interesting thing

is that we are, I believe, well, I think part of a binge culture.

I don't know about you, but I quite, I now I'm so used to having things

at my fingertips that when I watch a show on TV, I want to watch the

whole series, you know, and I think.

So there is, there is some validity in that.

And what you've said about it's a four, seven, 11, isn't it?

Or something.

I think I've come across that before.

So if they are able to consume your content and almost binge it

in a weekend, suddenly your trust factor has potentially gone up.

So that's quite an interesting way to look at it as well in

terms of building that connection.

Yeah, I think particularly for a really small business or sole

practitioner and generally most small business owners are very time poor.

Essentially your, your content can do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of

building that know, like, and trust.

And, uh, so people are trusting your brand more and getting to that point

where they're, they're more likely to become a client, a customer by using

that content to do some of that for you.

So you're not having to do that.

Individually with every potential prospect every time.

Um, Vadeep, how can we raise our brand's visibility?

Do you have any other thoughts and ideas on that?

We've talked to a number of ideas already that I think can help do that.

But was there anything else we might have overlooked?

So one of the things I would, um, say is to get clarity before

you look at how best to be visible.

Because if you're, if you've done some work on your brand, you know

what you're about, you know what you want to communicate, uh, you

know why you're different from your competitors, you know why people should

choose you and not your competition and what value that is going to be.

Then what that does, that clarity helps to cut through some of that noise.

So, you know, and I know there's lots of tips and tricks that you can Google or

search or even use some sort of AI tool in terms of how best to be more visible.

But I, I think you've got to know.

Why, why you exist and why people should buy from you first and foremost, because

that will help underpin your messaging and what you communicate about yourself.

And also it gives you confidence in your brand because you know

that's the right message for you.

And that comes across because if you're not sure, or you can't answer some of

the questions as to why you're different.

What that does sometimes is make some of your messaging.

or your brand a little bit muddled or confused and if you're a bit

confused there's no doubt that your end user will be confused.

So getting that clarity is one of the first steps I believe to understanding

how to raise your own visibility.

It is then looking at who your audience is.

Because it's about being visible to the right people and it's really

looking at then who they are, where they will be, where they hang out,

how best to get in front of them, what sort of partnerships are

potentially going to be useful for you.

And you won't know that until you know what you're about and you're really

clear on who your audience is as well.

Then to understand what the best way is to be visible and, you

know, cause then you can understand where you fit in their lives.

It might be podcast.

You know, you won't know that until you know your audience.

It might be, it might be videos.

It might be in person events.

But you don't know until you can answer some of those other questions first.

So those brand foundations are really important to

have that kind of clarity on things.

And that totally makes sense to me that the idea that we were talking about, if

people are a bit unsure when it comes to content and what to talk about,

and if you don't have that clarity on your business, on your brands, then

it's going to be difficult to show up.

And.

You know, we, there is the, there is the option of, you know, the

behind the scenes contact, which is a great idea if you are a bit unsure.

But beyond that, if you're wanting to talk about things.

With a bit more depth and meaning and it to align nicely with your business.

Then if you don't have that clarity, you haven't got those foundations, right?

Then that could be quite difficult for you.

And you, you mentioned about, um, the confusion that that can

cause, confused people don't buy.

So, um, if we're going to be confusing prospective customers, then they

are not going to be buying from us.

They will find another competitor that has much clearer messaging and

they'll go and buy from them instead.

Right.

Yep.

It's a clarity wins.

Definitely.

definitely.

So, how can we sort of bring all this together, Vardeep?

Because we've covered quite a lot here, but if you want to kind of bring

this all together so that we have this consistent, coherent brand, do

you have some recommendations there?

I kind of believe that building a brand needs to sit amongst all

your other business building activities.

So your business strategy, your marketing, your sales, your PR, um, and I think

so one of the key things in terms of building that consistency and that

coherence around your brand is to bring branding in as something you are working

on involving along with other activities.

To grow your brand, uh, to grow your business.

Sorry.

Um, so it's, it really is thinking about it as part of your business and

the system and not just an add on or something that you've just done once.

And, and that's it.

you know, going back to, you know, people, it's your people who build your brands.

You will are able to shape and influence it to a certain extent,

but essentially it's people and it can, and it can destroy brands quite.

Well, you know, because it is built by the people who use it or

interact with your brand in some way.

So I think in terms of the consistency is to to understand that your brand.

It's like, it's a living and breathing thing.

So it's something that needs to be worked and tweaked on

involved and adapted as you go.

And so therefore what that means is it means putting into your, you know,

your metrics, your measuring, your, your analyzing it, your, um, auditing

it, your assessing it, whether it's right for you, whether it's working

for you, is it giving the right.

Message is it communicating what you want or need it to about your brand?

Is it connecting with the people you want to connect with?

Is it helping you grow your business?

And there's, uh, there's a report I kind of read as a yearly report.

And one of the recent ones.

They, um, highlighted that the most successful businesses who are still

at the top of their game in terms of brands and being known are the ones

that invested in their brands over, uh, over their branding, branding, and

brand marketing over any kind of tips and tactics and short term strategies.

So what that says to me is that Small businesses, large businesses, even

solo practitioners as well, need to be thinking about how best to involve

that brand to have that consistency.

Because when you're looking at that and looking at the different

elements of your brand, you are then assessing whether or The different

elements make sense together.

And if they're not, you're able to improve and work on them to therefore

it's building that consistent brand as you grow as a business.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So, let's try and, um, sum things up, Vardeep.

If people were just to take away one thing, from this conversation.

If there was just one thing that we wanted them to remember

when it comes to branding, what would that be, do you think?

I would say in terms of a one thing, it would be that working

on your brand is, it's not a one thing.

Stop exercise in terms of, okay, I've done that.

Now I can put that to one side.

I've got the guidelines.

We've got it.

We've got it there.

It's about how to integrate that.

Into your business and what that means for you as well going forward.

Cool.

So, was there anything else that you wanted to say about the topic

that we haven't already covered?

Was there anything that we should add in?

I would really like to just bring up the use of AI because

it's quite a hot topic at the moment.

And, um, I've seen quite a few AI tools out for, in some of the brand

building elements, whether it's, uh, your marketing plan, whether it's

customer research, logo creation as well.

I've seen a few.

Um, and there's even been some sort of brand building

AI tools that have come out.

So I think it's an interesting area to consider and bring up in any sort of

discipline, really, not just branding, um, and how that's going to be used in, uh,

how you, Build your business, how you grow in terms of what you're doing as well.

And what you're offering, um, will AI replace elements of it?

Or, how will it be used?

Cause I don't think this is going away.

And I know there's been lots of backlash about the use of AI and

some of the, some of the outputs as well, but I just think it needs

to be considered and thought about.

I dunno if you've got any thoughts on that as well, John?

Yeah, I mean, there are so many AI tools that are

available already and they're coming out faster and faster every week.

I think the stage that we're at at the moment with AI is that they are, I think

AI currently is a, a useful tool, like the software that we have available.

It can aid you in producing.

Whatever it is, if you're working on a brand or content or whatever,

there is like architecture specific tools as well to assist with design.

It can help to do it, but I just look at it like it's just another tool in the

toolbox alongside the, uh, The pencil and the notepad and the, uh, the, the CAD

software or whatever else that we have it's not quite at the stage yet where you

can just sit back and press one button and it's just done everything for you.

you can put just a short prompt into something like chat GPT and get it

to write something for you, get a long piece of content written, but

most of it's not really very good.

It's like the, the quality of the prompting, um, the, the more.

detail that you're able to provide it, the better the output.

So it all comes down to the quality of what you import into

these tools has a direct impact on the quality of the output.

So if you are opening up chat GPT and just putting a one liner in there saying,

you know, write me some social media posts for an architect's practice so

I can stick it on Instagram next week.

It's going to be pretty vanilla.

And once you've used those tools for a little while, you realize like, like

I can, I can read a piece of copy now and I'll know, like, unless they've

put in a really good prompt or really good instructions around tone of voice

and language and rules for the writing.

It sticks out like a sore thumb if they've not prompted properly.

That may change though.

I mean, I know that with this talk about AI agents where they is, can

operate more autonomously and the pace of change is really quick.

I don't think it will be long before we do start to see some

more sophisticated AI tools.

But for now, I don't think anyone needs to worry too much, you know.

I don't think we're going to be out of a job next week, Fardeep.

something to be said about, um, creativity and also, you

know, that original thought that we have as humans and in our brains.

And the other thing to just be aware of is the, um, Ethics, copyright and plagiarism

behind what AI tools churn out and where it's getting that sources from as well.

But yeah, I just think it's something it's, it's an, it's a topic in the

area that I think all businesses and business owners need to, um, to look at.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think maybe at the moment it's sort of looking at it like it's a, it's almost

like a sort of office intern or helpful assistant that you can back and forth

a few ideas with, but it's not at the stage where for a variety of reasons

that you can rely wholly on the output from any of those AI tools without

putting in quite a lot of work yourself.

Um, This has been really good, Vandeep.

What I do like to do with the guests on the show is we Wrap up with a non

topic question about travel because I love to travel I don't I don't get as

much opportunity to do it these days as I used to but I love to travel and to

discover new Places, so I was wondering if you could tell me about one of

your favorite places and what you love about it And this could be near or far.

Like we've had everything from like the coffee shop in the local park right to

like exotic places across the world.

So, um, does anywhere spring to mind?

my goodness, that's a really hard question actually, John,

um, because there are so many, so many places for all sorts of different reasons.

Yeah, and like you say, they're not always the exotic places because you've

got some other sort of connection or a memory or experience from it.

One of the places that does stick out, um, for a number of reasons is, I, so

I've been to South America a times.

And, uh, one was for the Rio Carnival, which was amazing.

Um, but the other one was, I went and did the Inca Trail, and took

sort of three weeks out, and went to Peru with my now husband and friends.

And there's, there's nothing quite like it, doing the Inca Trail.

I, I still cannot, bearing in mind this was nearly 20 years ago, but, yeah.

I haven't got anything that I've done or experienced that has

quite the same impact and effect.

Yeah, so that's, that's one experience I would say is etched,

etched in my brain and, and won't forget for a very long time.

Oh, I have, I have travel envy

Do you?

Um, yeah,

Brilliant.

uh, yeah, I've been to South America.

Uh, I have been to Rio, um, but I wasn't there when it was Carnaval.

Um, but I haven't done the Inca trail and that was something that

I would have loved to have done.

So, um, who knows, maybe, maybe we might get there one day, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it's on the bucket list.

So, Vardeep, thank you so much for joining me on the show and

sharing your expertise today.

Where's the best place for the listeners to get in contact with you online?

So I am the Brandy Fox everywhere.

I'm obviously my own name, LinkedIn.

And, uh, yeah, it's for those two spaces.

You'll be able to contact me on social or on my website.

Oh, that's awesome.

And can you just remind everyone about your Your downloadable that we

mentioned in the introduction, um, Five Things Every Great Brand Needs.

Do you want to just tell everyone about that?

Yeah.

So like I mentioned earlier, there's quite a lot of different aspects

in terms of building a brand.

And I think it can sometimes feel a bit overwhelming, but they, I believe there

are some core things that everybody can do regardless of their time, what stage

they're at their business and whether they're one person, small, medium, large.

And so I've created this download of sort of five core things that I just think

anybody and everybody can do and can work on and start, start that process.

ball rolling in terms of working on their brands.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Right.

Thank you so much, Vadip.

at all.

Thank you for having me, John.

The next episode will be our last of 2024.

So I'll be taking a look back at the past year in a special festive episode.

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