In this case, I'm not moving the camera.

I'm just keeping it nice and steady.

I remember him coming past me and it sounded like a jet engine, like re entering the atmosphere.

Hello and welcome to the August 8, 2025 edition of the Tridock Podcast.

I'm your Host, as always, Dr. Jeff Zankoff, an emergency physician, a triathlete, a triathlon coach.

Coming to you as always, from beautiful, sunny Deborah, Colorado.

The voice you heard at the top of the podcast was that of my guest on today's program.

That is Adam Barker.

Adam is an accomplished photographer, one who is an award winner.

He won the X Games competition for a photograph that he took of a skier in that competition.

And if you're watching on the YouTube channel, you'll get a chance to see that photograph and hear Adam's description of how he captured it during the X Games competitions.

Or actually, it wasn't during the X Games, but it was while that skier was practicing for the X Games.

He is also an accomplished cyclist, and I got to meet Adam actually during the Ironman 70.3 Boulder Expo that took place just a couple of months ago.

Now, because Adam has switched from being a photographer to being an entrepreneur, he has developed a shaving system for men, men specifically, who cycle and want to shave their legs.

He was frustrated by the absence of products on the market to help men be able to deal with their notoriously hirsute lower extremities.

And so he took the bit between his teeth, developed the product, and he is going to tell you all about it.

But we're going to talk mostly about his exploits as a photographer in the Wasatch Mountains of Utah and around the world.

We'll talk about his cycling exploits as a very accomplished, elite, almost amateur cyclist.

And then of course, about Bolt Shaving, the company that he has developed and that I learned about when I was at the boulder 70.3.

Before we get to that, we are going to talk, and by we, I mean myself and my friend and colleague Juliet Hockman in the Medical Mailbag segment, where we are going to discuss something that I think is rather relevant given that we are in the summer months.

I cannot believe it's already August.

It's a little bit sad and depressing.

I know that my friends in the Southern Hemisphere are just chomping at the bit because I should say champing at the bit because they are now seeing the end of their winter and they're starting to see the warming of the evenings as spring begins to emerge in earnest.

But we, alas still have the dog days of summer to look forward to.

But yes, fall is just lurking around the corner still.

It is warm here and the oceans of both the east and west coasts of North America remain very inviting for swimmers.

And that means the possibility of interactions with those predatory animals that everybody loves to fear.

And that is, of course, sharks.

I saw something come across my social media feed not too long ago in the form of a shark deterrent made by a company called Shark Bands.

That's Bands with a Z.

And so I thought to myself, I've heard about these products for a while, but is there anything to them?

And so I asked my interns to take a look into the literature on this.

They came back to me with the science that has been done on these things.

And Coach Juliet and I are going to take a look in the Medical Mailbag segment and that's coming up very shortly.

Before we get to the program though, I do want to talk about something that's been in the news and it's been in the news specifically for me and for many of my colleagues who are traveling triathlon coaches.

You will undoubtedly remember that it's been a couple of years now since my nemesis in the triathlon world, Tridot.

I say my nemesis because they sound way too much like Tridoc.

But anyways, Tri Dot inked a deal with Ironman and in so doing really cemented their place in the coaching ranks for triathletes.

Now, I don't know exactly what the specifics of the deal was, but but I do know they had a huge that the deal itself had a huge impact on coaching and on athletes.

And the reason for that was because Tridot became very much integrated within the fabric of Ironman racing.

If you signed up for any kind of event, be it 70.3 or an Ironman event, Tridot got your information, your contact information, and you would be inundated with all kinds of emails and invitations to sign up with one of their coaches.

And signing up with one of their coaches usually meant just signing up with their service to get AI coaching.

And you've probably seen a lot of their advertisements.

If you have done a 70.3 or an Ironman event, Tridot has been all over the websites and you are continuously getting emails about signing up with them and trying to get coaching with them.

The other thing that Tridot did was that they took over Ironman University.

Now, when I first started coaching several years ago now, the first course that I took was that of imu Ironman University University and between the Two that I've done, Ironman University and USA Triathlon's coaching certification.

Ironman University was really solid.

It was definitely the one that I enjoyed more.

I thought it was fleshed out a lot better.

It was done in a way that was much more immersive.

It was something that as somebody who had a good understanding of physiology and had been an athlete for as long as I had been, who was now getting into coaching, I thought the IMU course was really good.

Whereas the USAT Coach coaching certification course was more pedantic and a little more in the weeds of you had to read this long manual and it didn't really do as good of a job of educating you on how to make a coaching plan as the IMU course did.

When Tridot came in and took over the IMU course, they immediately overhauled it so that it basically integrated their AI model and it became very much an advertising campaign to bring coaches into tridot.

If you took the IMU course, you basically were given a. I hesitate, but I do believe it was an indoctrination to the Tridot way of doing things.

And if you signed up with Tridot, your recertifications were cheaper.

There was a whole bunch of incentives to bring you in as a cheerleader for Tridot and a way to get you in the folder.

And it became very clear, as I was not surprised to learn, because I had seen the way Tridot operated, that the partnership between Tridot and Ironman was very heavily slanted toward Tridot.

Get them more and more athletes, get them more and more coaches who don't have their own business.

And it was really pushing out the independent coaches and the independent organizations that employed coaches because without access to all of these new athletes, you were relying on word of mouth, you were relying on people finding you.

But Dry Dot really took over and made it much easier.

And listen, the fact that they offered a less expensive kind of cookie cutter approach for athletes who didn't, who were really new to the sport to get in at a much lower price barrier, that's good.

But I have always argued that the importance of a coach is not just the plan, but the support that a coach gives and the knowledge base that a coach has that they bring to the fore.

So I always thought that Tridot was going to be a bit of a threat to independent coaches.

I thought that it was not necessarily going to be the best fit for a lot of athletes.

And I was interested to see where it all went.

Despite all of that, I had to acknowledge, and I have several times that it was a brilliant business move for Tridot.

What better way to increase their numbers and increase their bottom line to do exactly what they did?

But I never believed that coaches or athletes were really best served by this arrangement.

And over the past week, there has been a very public and very acrimonious kind of divorce that happened very quickly between Tridot and Ironman.

I don't have any inside knowledge as to what happened.

All I know is that I got an email one day that basically said, hey, Ironman University is on hold.

Tridot owns Ironman University.

Ironman has nothing to do with it.

We are proprietary owners of the educational content of Ironman University.

And it's on hold because we have a dispute with Ironman.

And I talked with Coach Juliet about this.

I said, hey, if they're airing public discourse like this, that never bodes well.

And I won't be surprised to see this come to a split very quickly.

And sure enough, a couple of days later, an email went out to all coaches, basically saying, ironman University is dead.

We have terminated our sponsorship with Ironman.

No details given as to why, no details given as to what's going to happen with people's certification that they paid for, that they did a lot of training for.

Was this leaving coaches out high and dry?

These things are being fleshed out as time goes on.

Right now many of us have USAT certification, so we're covered there.

But the loss of Ironman University is not to be understated.

I felt a loss when Tridoc took over Ironman University and now that it's just going away, that's not a good thing.

Now a couple of people have posted on social media.

As I said, this remains within the purview of coaches.

It's not really affecting athletes that much just yet.

At least not that I've seen.

But I did want to acknowledge that Thomas Skelton, who runs Merge Coaching, I believe it's Merge Coaching out on the east coast.

He and I have been friends since we met at Chattanooga several years ago.

He had an excellent post on Instagram.

I actually shared it on my own feed and I just wanted to read from it because I think he does a great job of summing up what the issues were with Tridot taking over Ironman University.

I think he did a really good job and I want to acknowledge that this was him, Thomas Skelton.

He wrote A very good day for sport and I was Ironman University certified well before Tridot.

He's referring a very good day being the split between Tridot and Ironman.

On the athlete side I think simple to access programs that help lower the barrier for entry to this sport are fantastic.

But on the coach side all Tridot was turn coaches into glorified cheerleaders and marketing agents.

When a coach is not intimately connected to the work their athletes need to do and why they need to do it, it decreases the quality of what coaches can and should be and pushes towards quantity which just supported the Tri Dot business model.

Dollar signs couldn't have said it better.

Thomas, thank you for saying it and thank you for saying the quiet part out loud.

And there it is.

So I don't know what happens next.

I don't know if Ironman is just going to abandon the coaching business coaching model altogether and just go back to the way it was before Ironman University existed and just leave coaches to their own devices and we'll have to be certified by the different country organizations that we have.

My understanding is that Ironman University content is being picked up by someone, but those details to me remain a little bit hazy.

So we will have to see.

What do you think about all this?

Does it affect you at all?

I have heard from many coaches who I am friendly with and who have commented on my own feed and who've commented on Thomas's feed and have been just giddy with this news.

It's been somewhat refreshing to learn that I'm not alone in my disdain for Tridot and how they bulldozed their way into this whole space and kind of made what I think was not the best decision for independent coaches.

And so I'm glad that they're not there anymore.

And I look forward to hopefully re engaging with Ironman in a way that Coach Juliet and I have in the past.

We presented several webinars.

We were on site giving talks to Ironman athletes.

That kind of went away when Tridot came into the picture because Ironman was beholden to try DOT coaches who did not have the expertise or the ability to speak to the kinds of things that we did.

And now maybe Ironman will bring us back and athletes will benefit from that.

We'll see.

So again, what do you think we would love to hear?

Just head on over to the TriDarc podcast, private Facebook group.

If you're not already a member, you know how to join.

Just answer the three easy questions.

I will gain you admittance.

And I'd love to hear your comments.

If you don't want to share them publicly, please do send me an email.

You can do that@triodocloud.com and I will definitely respond.

All right, with that now out of the way, let's get to the medical mailbag and talk all about shark deterrence.

Is this something you need to be thinking about?

Find out in just a second.

I am here with my naughty colleague Juliet Hockman.

She didn't know I was going to do that.

But yes, this is the first time we are meeting since the Oregon race and.

Well, that's true.

You're not going to press me about that, Lori.

It'S interesting.

We had a conversation on tempo talks last week.

We were talking about the congestion on the course and actually Justin Raphael was also making some, I thought, some really good commentary about how there's just so many riders out there, it's just so hard to avoid the congestion sometimes.

And I, I think after you put me in the penalty tent for mispronouncing the name of the state, we should probably just come clean.

All right, so what Jeff is referring to is that we did have 70.3 Oregon two weeks ago.

Jeff and I both raced along with a whole squad of our lifesport athletes, which is amazing.

And it was such a good time.

It was an amazing time.

It was such a good time.

Yeah.

Super fun race.

Highly recommend.

Whether you're a first timer or whether you're seeking a pr.

Just such a great race.

Anyway, for the first time ever, I was given a drafting penalty, which I was mortified by and it is always a little bit tricky.

I will say in my defense, I'm not saying I didn't deserve it.

I was definitely within the six bike lengths regulation.

There's no doubt about it.

The only thing I would say in my defense is that if you are on the pointy end of the women's field, which myself and another life support athlete, young woman named Marlee, who ended up winning the whole women's field outright easily.

She's an amazing athlete.

We were within each other on the course and we.

I could see her, she could see me, we were passing each other, et cetera.

She was doing an amazing job staying out of trouble.

Not a question that she was staying clear.

But it is tough.

The motos were, I think I saw the motos eight times out there because they're watching the leaders of the women's field.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Marlee also got a penalty.

I'm quite sure she did not deserve hers.

The challenge that we have and you've heard.

You don't even have to say it.

I know it.

The men around you feel like it's somehow undermining their masculinity.

To have a woman go by them or to have a woman amongst them and they feel, oh, I have to pass her.

And they put out a huge effort to get past you, and then they can't sustain it.

And so they back off that speed and you are caught in that zone and you often, you have to sit up to back out of it, and sometimes you're just not fast enough to get out of that zone.

And if the motorcycle happens to come up on you on that moment, then, yeah, that's what happens.

Yeah.

And to be fair, most.

Yeah, to be fair, most guys are completely respectful and they're great racers and everyone's doing the very best they can out there.

And the roads are more and more congested.

And yeah, it's a little bit tough if you've got a number you're trying to chase and then someone comes flying by you and they come in right in front of you, and you literally have to scrub 100 watts just bang to get out of the way or you have to swing to the middle.

And so it's a little bit tough to stay out of trouble.

But I was at that point where the motor came by.

I was not six legs back.

So I got the penalty that I deserved.

But I was so embarrassed because there's this young life sport athlete back behind me somewhere seeing this whole thing.

I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm such a terrible example.

But then she comes.

But you ended up spending time together.

We did.

We spent time together in the tent.

So anyway, well, as I.

As Matt and I talked about on the sister podcast, we were just saying.

I was saying how I was mortified by what I was seeing.

I was behind you by.

I think I was behind you by three or four minutes, maybe if more.

Maybe about five minutes.

And the guys that were riding purposely in packs was really frustrating.

And I did fortunately see a bunch of them get penalties.

But I just think the two minute thing is they're just.

They just don't care.

They're like, two minutes.

I could deal with two minutes.

I'm getting more out of drafting than I will sitting down for two minutes.

Yeah, interesting point, because that's a new.

They've reduced the drafting penalty to, quote, unquote, only two minutes.

Which I, in my moment of panic, actually said to the referee as she was giving me the penalty, how long?

Not remembering the new rule because I was flustered.

And she said two minutes.

And I thought, okay, that's probably.

I'm probably going to be okay.

It's still nerve wracking, but it's certainly not five minutes or longer.

And I think we should say Marley won on the course.

And once the age adjusted times came out, our very own Juliet Hockman was number one overall.

So congratulations to both of you and I echo what you say and this is a great race.

I'm strongly considering going back to do it third year in a row and we'll see.

Just thinking about my schedule for next year.

I want to keep the medical mailbag timely as well.

And so I wanted to talk about a subject today that's not a listener question.

It's something I came across in my socials and I thought it was worth looking at because we are 50 years since the release of Jaws.

And of course that was a film that made people a little bit wary about getting into the water.

We have a lot of people who have the opportunity to swim in the open water on both coasts right now because the water's quite warm and it won't be long before our friends in the Southern hemisphere are warily getting back into the water.

And something came across my social media feed not too long ago and that was an advertisement for some of these shark repellent sort of.

Oh my gosh.

That you could buy.

And I think it came out because we just recently had Shark Week, which is a big thing on television.

I guess it's the Discover Channel that does all of the how to get killed by sharks kind of weak thing.

I don't know.

I'm not a big consumer.

Yeah, okay.

Not a big consumer either.

I'd love to dive with sharks, but I know that this Shark Week thing is just a cultural phenomenon where people just watch all of these documentaries on sharks attacking.

I don't know what.

So anyways, I wanted to know whether or not these shark deterrents have any science behind them, because I've seen them off and on for a while and it seemed to me that if they actually worked that they would probably have more of a footprint and a cultural embrace than they probably do.

And so I thought, you know what, let's take a look.

You won't be surprised to learn that there is a kernel of scientific truth to how they work.

But whether or not they're actually, actually functional or effective is a whole different story.

Now hold on, back up.

Are these things you wear on your wrist, is it like a strap that goes around your ankle?

What does it look like?

It could be either way.

Okay, so let's just.

Okay, so first of all, shark attacks, I think we should just come right out and say they're exceedingly uncommon.

We have an outsized fear of them versus the actual specter or the actual reality of how common they are.

And I think we should just say that up front.

Certainly the.

The thing that most people are afraid of are the great whites, which, there's no question there are increasing numbers of great whites that frequent both coasts.

And that actually is a good thing because we need our apex predators in the ocean.

But I think it's very important to mention that great whites really have very little interest in human beings.

And the reason for that is because, number one, we are by far much more dangerous to great whites than great whites are to humans.

We are responsible for wholesale slaughter of sharks, and sharks kill very few people.

But that, of course, doesn't change the fact that sharks do kill people on occasion.

And when they do, it's very sensationalized, and it's a big deal.

You don't want to go into the ocean for something fun and not come out alive.

So I understand that.

And the great white.

The great white is a very impressive animal.

I have had the good fortune of diving with them a couple of times in a cage.

It is just an amazing animal to see up close.

I would not want to see it up close in the absence of a steel cage because it is like a.

Literally a Greyhound bus coming at you.

And the first, like six feet is just teeth.

It's just an incredible.

I wouldn't even do it in a cage.

There's no way in hell.

No.

Oh, it.

We were.

This is an aside again, but we were in South Africa.

My wife, I was gonna say was this.

I know exactly where you were.

Off the Cape in South Africa.

We got a chance to go to Mossel Bay, and we were there on the boat and we were nervous and we didn't really know.

And we were standing on the boat and they were.

They don't chum the water, but they put in oil, like fish oil.

They don't put any actual tissues or anything.

They don't feed the sharks, but they attract them with the scent.

And this animal came by, it was almost as big as the boat we were on.

And I looked at Sandra and we were like, oh, my gosh, we got to get in of front first.

And we were like, we want to go right now.

And it was just an incredible experience.

It's just amazing.

Anyways, those are the big ones that people worry about.

They are really not interested in people.

They.

Most attacks Occur because they mistake humans for something.

They're normal foods.

They're seals.

And researchers have shown that, like a surfer, specifically a surfer from underneath when they are paddling on a surfboard, looks like a seal from below.

And so when a shark attacks a human, they're almost invariably attacking surfers.

The second they take a bite, they recognize that this is not their desired prey, and they actually spit out the person.

Like, they.

Like sharks don't consume people.

They take a bite, recognize that's not their normal food source, and then they just move on.

But, okay, that's like a Gary Larson.

That's like a Gary Larson far side comic waiting.

Oh, for sure, right there.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But the reality is those bites are traumatic and do so much damage that people will hemorrhage and die just from that.

Again, the shark is not intending to do that.

It's an accidental encounter where the shark makes a wrong guess as to what it's attacking.

And then once it figures it out, it's unfortunately too late for the victim in most cases.

The other shark that's actually probably more dangerous than the great white is the tiger shark, and that's been responsible for even more deaths.

And actually is the one shark that we worry about as scuba divers because it's.

That's known to be quite aggressive underwater.

Whereas most other sharks are not interested in divers.

That one is particularly menacing.

Okay, so all of that said, the sharks, for the most part, beautiful animals, incredibly well evolved to do what they do best.

They.

Oh, and I should also say they're very good swimmers, but keep in mind they're very poor cyclists and runners.

So if you can make it out of the water, you're bound to beat them in a triathlon.

Okay, good to know.

All right, so far, you're very much on the side of the sharks here, so.

Yeah, I am.

All right, so sharks, they've evolved over millions of years to be these incredibly effective hunters.

And one of the ways that they locate their prey is through electrical and electromagnetic sensing organs that they have in their nose.

And so they can detect the electrical perturbations that a struggling animal makes in the water.

They don't have the best eyesight, which is why they frequently misconstrue a human on a surfboard for a seal.

So they use these electrical detector.

I can't remember what they're called.

I think they're called elasto.

I think I have it written down here.

Elasmo branches.

So they are elasmo branches.

Elasmo is something about the Electrical fields.

And then Branck is just in the, the neck and nose.

And these elasmo branch or elasmo branches are what detects the electrical perturbations that are made by struggling prey.

And anybody who's had any interaction with shark documentaries will know that the more a prey or a fish is injured or struggling around, that is an instant detection for a shark.

And that's what they're detecting.

So the idea behind these magnets is that these magnets can be used.

A strong magnet can overwhelm the electromagnetic sense of these sharks.

And there has been some sort of, like, studies in aquariums where they put like, bait, and then they put these magnets next to the bait and the sharks can get disoriented and actually pass up on the bait as they get closer to these magnets.

So that's where all of this came from.

Why don't we put magnets on a bracelet or an ankle something or other that we then affix to a surfer and that should help with disorienting sharks.

And it sounds like a fantastic idea.

Alas.

Oh, no.

Hasn't borne out so well.

Now.

They haven't.

Listen, they haven't sent 100 surfers into shark infested waters, Farley.

They haven't sent 100 surfers into Shark infested waters.

50 of them with bracelets and 50 without.

And see how many of them come back.

So they have to do things a little differently.

So one of the studies we found, and I should thank Cosette Rhodes, who was the intern that looked at this, they created a surfboard setup and they lured in sharks with these tuna bait.

And what they did is they had five different deterrents.

Some of them were very surf specific, like different kinds of board waxes.

Some of the board waxes, like there's one called Shark bands.

Sorry, yeah.

Shark bands is a wax and there's chill wax.

There's all these different olfactory things.

Like it smells bad to sharks.

I don't know how you determine this, but whatever.

And then they have the magnetic ones, which is the shark bands.

Magnetic.

So shark bands makes a boardwax.

And then they also make this magnet thing.

Shark bands is S, H, A, R, K, B, A, N, Z.

That is the thing that I first saw and I first was interested in.

So they would set up these baits and then they had these different olfactory and magnetic, different deterrents and they would see, okay, let's see.

How many of the sharks, how many of these baits would the sharks take?

And how many would they not?

And it turns out the deterrents did nothing.

The sharks went after everything and they didn't care what was there.

I think they even ate many of the deterrents because they couldn't tell the deterrent was there.

Okay?

And the article was incredibly negative.

The authors who wrote this were just like, and I understand why this stuff is being advertised as potentially life saving, right?

The authors who wrote this article were like, hey, let's pump the brakes a little bit here.

This stuff does not do what they're advertising.

And people who are taking it into the water on good faith and thinking that this is somehow going to make them safe, they need to know the truth.

So they wrote a kind of scathing conclusion and discussion saying this is not work.

The guy who founded Shark Bands, his name is Nathan Garrison, he actually went on into Forbes magazine and wrote this like response in which he says, look, the study was flawed because they used rather than surfers, which we know sharks aren't interested in.

They use tuna, which sharks are definitely interested in.

And we never said our magnets would prevent sharks from going after their preferred bait.

We said that the mag.

And I can understand his point.

I have said, when I've talked about studies on here before, I've said you have to use something that represents the real world.

And his argument, Mr. Garrison, South park reference.

Mr. Garrison said, you, you can't use something that is so far removed from the real world example that we're doing, which is, which I think is fair.

And even he said, look, we are not saying that we can eliminate the risk of shark attacks.

We're saying that we can minimize it or make it smaller, which I think is a very fair and measured response.

So good on him for that.

However, there's more research and a lot of the other research and I think this is like the most important one of the research.

And this came out of an article in 2022 evaluating the shark effects of the novel exclusion barrier in comparison to the rigorously tested shark safe barrier technology from the Journal of Marine Science and Engineering.

Just in case you think we are limited to human research only.

So this talks about how there's no question that sharks have this whole magnetic organ and how the magnet, powerful magnets can interfere with this.

The problem seems to be the distance the, the magnets, the efficacy of these magnets that are in these deterrents is only about half a meter.

So you can imagine when a shark that is 10ft long is only 500 centimeters away from you, it's probably too late because it's moving.

Those things are moving fast.

They're not gonna stop in time.

Like a train.

Yeah, they're unlikely to get deterred or disoriented with that little space.

And in fact, they were saying that the magnetic field degrades quite quickly and that it may only be 330 centimeters.

Sorry, I said 500.

500 is 5 meters.

So it's 50 centimeters and 30 centimeters.

So it's like a really small distance before the magnet really has its maximum efficacy.

So they were saying, like, look, there are other stronger magnets.

And part of the problem is they're using iron based magnets and they were saying you could look at some of these rare earth magnets.

You're familiar with the ones that are like super strong.

And they were saying, look, we could use these.

Neo.

What is it?

Neo.

That'd be so expensive.

It'd be prohibitive.

Yeah, that would be expensive.

And the question is, does it even work any better anyways?

Right, but listen, they were very clear that there is no question that when you set up like a wall of magnets and you expose sharks and a variety of different sharks.

So the Galapagos hammerhead, which I have seen and swam with, beautiful shark, lemon sharks, Australian blacktips, gray reef.

I've actually swam with a lot of these bull sharks.

All those sharks, even white, even great whites, they will avoid those magnets.

And there is some reason to think that this could be somehow implemented in some way to provide some kind of protection.

But unfortunately what is being promised in the advertisements is just so far out of keeping with what we actually see in the real world.

Now I am not familiar with.

I don't know how popular these things are.

Certainly they don't seem to be aiming them towards swimmers.

There have been swimmers have been.

I know of at least one story of somebody who was swimming.

It was not a smart person.

This was.

I don't even know if this was a triathlete.

This was just somebody who was swimming in waters that were known to be frequented by great whites and they were attacked and killed.

But I am not familiar with.

We know that in Australia they've had to cancel the swim for the race out in the Perth because of its frequency of sharks.

They use shark nets in that area which are effective.

It's a barrier that actually keeps sharks out of the bay.

So there are ways of minimizing sharks.

But whether or not this kind of personal deterrent is actually ever going to be effective, probably not.

But I do want to come Back and just remind people, you know, look, be smart, know where you are.

If you live on the island of Amity and they're closing the beaches, don't think you'd be a hero and go into.

Because that's just asking for it.

And if you don't know what I'm.

Talking about, you're not 50, over 50 years old.

That's right.

The start of generation.

Exactly.

It hasn't really held up that well.

I watched.

I started watching.

No, I mean, if you, if we were to ask our kids to watch it, they would just be like, you've got to be kidding.

This scared you.

Really?

I know.

Can't you just see a notice going up on the notice board at the University of Hawaii asking for volunteers who might help with an experiment?

Just like the old psych experiments.

You could get paid 20 bucks to go into a psych experiment.

Remember that happened to me as an undergrad.

Good way to pick up some easy money.

And now it says all you have to do is give us a morning of your time and be able to swim and we'll pay you a hundred bucks.

You could just be one of the guinea pig suggests these.

We'll have the one group that has them and one group that doesn't have them and see what happens.

Oh, gosh, it really, it's unfortunate because it is.

I've talked, I think I've talked here about this.

The innate fears that we have.

There's two of them there, right?

The innate fear of like just the deep water and then the innate fear of being eaten.

Those are two, I think, innate fears that we have as human beings.

And that's why shark attacks are, I think, so continuously within our imagination as something that is just horrifying.

And although I'm going next week, I'm going on vacation.

I'm going to be in Bonaire in the Dutch Caribbean, which has no sharks.

And I'm going to do some open water swimming.

And you could see right to the bottom.

And sometimes that's even worse.

Yeah.

Because you see everything below you and sometimes you're like, oh, what's coming around?

Well, I think you have.

I think you have to add to that the fear of being snuck up on from behind, like, what's tracking you?

I think that's a fear as well, for sure.

Yeah.

And it is.

I have done a lot of.

A reasonable amount of open water swimming in the beautiful clear ocean.

And I still have this kind of like nervousness whenever I do it.

And so I get it.

Even though I Am very well aware that it is perfectly safe.

And I'm gonna be fine.

I still have this.

This kind of like in the back of my mind sort of thing.

So I get it.

I had to say why it's a fear for people.

Yeah.

But I thought where you were.

It's not gonna do it.

Yeah.

I thought where you were going to go with this product was that it was some sort of high frequency, emitting some high frequency noise.

And the reason I thought that is way back in the early 90s when my then boyfriend, now husband, and I traveled to Tibet, which was just not a place people went.

Back then, we were warned about rabid dogs.

And so in addition to getting our rabies shots, we also took with us this thing that looked like a garage door opener and it emitted this sound that we couldn't hear, but the dogs would just run away from.

And so we would walk down the streets in the capital of Tibet and we were like, this is never going to work.

And we carried this thing over with us and we would press the button and all of the strays would be like, like immediately move away from us.

And so it worked really well.

So I thought that's where we were going with the shark.

Mango.

It worked really well.

Except if the dog is rabid, it probably wouldn't work that well, except it's a.

It's a fear thing.

I think they get so.

I know they heated, but those rabid dogs, animals that are rabid have lost their mind.

Like they are.

They are insane.

And that's the problem.

Right.

They're just completely insane.

Yes.

And have you ever seen there is a video of somebody being attacked by a rabid raccoon.

Oh, it is scary to watch.

And it's just because the animal is just out of, like literally out of its mind.

Yeah.

And that's.

There's a difference there, right.

Because with rabies, it's like they're.

They have this encephalitis and they're just nuts.

Whereas with a shark, it's a.

It's being.

It's very cognitively aware of what it's doing.

And we are trying to interfere with its ability to detect and sense, but it's not that different.

It's like instead of using sound, we're using electromagnetic waves.

Right.

No.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

I've seen those shark sprays.

I've seen that.

But that's.

That was debunked a long time ago.

You'd have to be right in front of the shark here.

Let me see like a bear I'm always wondering about.

But you wear it, you spray it on before you get in the water.

The idea that it emanates through the water and I just never understood that.

But anyways, we'll have to stay in touch with our friend Kelly as she gets back into the water, although where she lives up in Brisbane, the shark issue is not quite as big of a deal.

The water's a lot warmer there.

She has box jellyfish to worry about, which is a much greater concern.

But anyways, all right, that's another episode.

We have good listener questions coming up.

We've had a few percolating in.

I'm looking forward to answering them.

So those will be coming up in the next episodes.

If you have a question you'd like for us to answer, I hope that you will email it in.

You could reach me at my email, which is tridocloud.com you can join the Tridark Podcast Facebook group.

If you're not already a member, please do look for it on Facebook.

Answer the three easy questions.

I'll gain you admittance.

You can join the conversation about the things we talk about here and ask your questions that we can consider on an episode to come in the future.

Juliet, thanks so much for being here and I look forward to chatting with you for our next subject in a short week or two.

Thanks so much Jeff.

My guest on the podcast today is Adam Barker and Adam is another very fine looking, shaved head young man, a cyclist who I met at the Expo for the boulder 70.3 and we got to talking because he is an entrepreneur who started up a company that we will get to in a short while.

But before we do that, Adam, why don't you introduce yourself, let the listeners know who you are and then we'll get to talking a little bit about you and your history and endurance sport.

For sure.

Jeff, thank you for having me.

Generous with the term young.

I don't feel so young anymore, but I'll take it.

I'll take it.

So yeah, my name's Adam Barker.

I am based out of Salt Lake City, Utah.

I founded Bolt Skin and Shave, which is the first brand for men who shave their legs and body.

We may or may not talk about that, but I've spent a lot of time in the cycling world both on road and on mountain bikes.

Prior to founding bolt, I spent 15 years making a living as a professional photographer in the active lifestyle and outdoor space.

So have always been very close to sport and have always had a great passion and love for all Things two wheeled.

I spent a lot of time on a dirt bike as well.

Rode Baja in January.

I got three boys, 18, 16 and 13, and a wife that is far more tolerant than most of us could ever hope for.

So, yeah, man, life is good.

Grinding like crazy with this new business, but still finding time to spend time on two wheels.

That's awesome.

So tell us about how you married your love of endurance sport with photography and how that helped leverage you into a career as a professional photographer.

Yeah, really, I think it was just by default where I can't really tell my wife or I couldn't tell her I was going to ride my bike or go skiing all day, but I could tell her I was going to work.

And if I could pack a camera, I found, wow, I could do a lot of these things that I would hope to be doing anyway, but I can do it in the context of work and play.

The lifestyle was amazing.

I found myself exercising and active every day.

I have been fortunate to travel from Antarctica to South Southeast Asia and most places in between.

I've worked for many of the big brands in active lifestyle and outdoor.

Yeah, I think it was just.

Believe it or not, I actually come from a family of doctors.

The easy path would have been to go to med school and pursue a career in medicine.

But I just, I knew first I didn't want to go to med school for 12 years.

Didn't want to spend the money, didn't want to spend the time studying.

And frankly, I didn't want to leave Utah.

I love Utah.

And so I chose a career.

I worked in pr.

I studied PR at the University of Utah, and then I worked in PR in the ski industry for about four or five years and really just wanted to pursue then a career that allowed me to do the things that I love and the places that I love to be.

Yeah, medical school is not for everybody.

I know too many people who go into it or went into it for the wrong reasons and find out that it is not the easy path they think it is because they think it's like you are alluding to it was made for them or they were made for it.

And at the end of the day, if you don't have a passion for something, it's not gonna work.

And so you were, I think, smart in identifying that.

No, this wasn't something you were passionate about and instead gravitated to something that you were passionate about.

And that's why it's felt easy for you to do what you're doing.

Although I would argue it probably would feel easy for a lot of people.

In a lot of ways for sure.

That was really the key is finding that passion.

And I just learned early on, and this is even before I had kids.

We gotta be happy, right?

We spent so much of our lives working, especially with the culture here in America.

We really do spend a great deal of time working.

And I just learned very quickly, like if I'm not doing something I love, if I'm not happy, it's gonna hard.

It's gonna be real hard for me to make others in my life happy as well and to give them what they need.

So obviously there's a balance there, but it is, it truly is about passion.

And I really enjoyed being behind the camera and capturing some amazing things in front of the lens.

And it just by default allowed me to do a lot of the things that I love as well.

And could you give us a sense for some of the things that you shot?

Yeah.

So like most of my living was made doing brand work for brands like Yeti, Traeger, Muk Boots, Snowbird Ski Resort, a lot of the resorts around here.

So ad campaigns for any brain and active lifestyle, outdoor.

But a lot of people know me for my skiing and my fly fishing work.

Those, like those industries never didn't necessarily pay all the bills, but those were my passion projects and what I would like.

People know me for my skills in my fishing work and my roots were in scenic photography.

But for sure it was always active lifestyle, always somebody doing something with a product in a beautiful place.

As a skier and with as a parent of a boy who is like an insane skier who likes to jump off things.

When you were scouting a location for one of your ski photos, how much work goes into because we see the results.

And I always wonder how long does it take to get those photos?

Like are you out there for days in advance scouting locations?

Are you then having someone ski the routes in order to find the best light, find the best angles?

What's involved with getting those photos?

Yeah, I appreciate the question.

So there's a lot involved.

Right?

Like one of the funny questions that I would always get is it's like, so do you just kind of stand there and shoot skiers as they cruise by?

And that is about the furthest thing from it where if you're skiing or if you're shooting in resort, you're usually the process is set up a turn or two and you're going over so many specifics.

I want the turn deep, I want it shallow, I want it wide.

I want it tight, I want it tons of energy, or I'd like you to throw the snow like this.

There's a lot of coordination and collaboration on both ends.

And the thing about snow is once you skied it, that particular canvas is done.

The biggest challenge was always communicating verbally what I saw visually.

And really helping the skier understand standing above what just looks like a run that they're skiing or a turn that they're, that they're hitting helped him to understand what I see through the lens.

But certainly it was a ton of work.

And then when we shoot more in the backcountry than we would in resort, and in that case you are doing a lot of prepar preparation, so checking out particular spots with angles, lighting times of day, of course, then you got to consider safety and avalanche conditions.

So depending how a storm came in, did it snow more here is more there is.

What aspect is the slope, what elevation, what's the danger here?

So there's all sorts of.

And then from a photographer standpoint, I think a lot about athletes because some athletes are really good at hucking cliffs and other athletes are really good at just nailing a powder turn every single time.

Even what gets us so specific is I know that X skier is going to look incredible, like shooting a POW shot straight on.

But from side profile, they might not be as dialed as Y skier.

So, yeah, it's a lot of collaboration and I was, it was rad.

I won an X Games gold medal in 2018 for a shot of a skier named Julian Carr launching an 80 foot front flip at Brighton resort that, that took a lot of years to get to.

But I, I guess the saying is 10,000 hours, 10,000 hours and maybe you've begun to master it at that point.

I would never consider myself a master for sure.

I. I had a friend, he's.

Unfortunately, he passed away far too early from cancer.

He was a triathlete.

His name was Lucas Moynihan and he shot surf pictures.

And he was incredibly accomplished.

He was a physician, orthopedic surgeon.

And he had this hobby of just shooting photos in the water of surfers.

And the pictures that he got were just incredible.

But the amount of work that went into learning how to do it and then setting up each shot was really incredible too.

And he would take a lot of his pictures in really adverse conditions, very cold water, really the waves themselves.

And I always look at these photos and I always try to put myself in the photograph.

Cause we look at these photos and we marvel at the shot.

But I think we forget how hard it was to get the shot.

Not just from planning and not just from all of the thought that went into setting up the picture, but also just the conditions.

Like I think about, it's winter, it's cold, and the cameras are going to be problematic.

Changing lenses when there's snow in the air and all of that.

I shoot underwater photography, scuba diving, and I know how challenging it can be with what I have to deal with.

And basically, once my setup is put together, I'm done for the dive.

I just do that.

But when you're out there shooting, you're changing lenses, you're changing all kinds of things, and your hand's gotta be cold.

It's just I always marvel at how the finished product can belie how much went into it.

I really think it's quite an accomplishment to get just one shot, never mind a whole career out of it.

You're kind and I think you put a lot more thought into it than most people.

But it's true.

I actually always say the difference between a professional photographer and an amateur is that a professional doesn't show you all his amateur images because there's a lot of fair point, you got to shoot a lot of images to get that one five star banger.

And yeah, there's a lot of suffering that goes into many of these images.

And that's the fun part of it too is that's the story.

Many of these images tell the story of what's happening in front of the lens.

But to your point, a lot of the time we don't realize what's happening behind the lens as well.

And I think I'm aware only because I do myself shoot as an amateur underwater and I'm very aware of how much work and how much learning goes into getting any kind of shot.

So people look at a finished product and they think, oh, that's amazing, but they have no idea what went in together.

True.

Do you have any pictures you can share with us to show some of your favorites or some of your work?

I do.

So if you're watching the YouTube video of the podcast, you will see the pictures that we are about to discuss.

Otherwise, we'll try and describe them.

Adam, what.

What photos can you share with us?

Yeah, so this first shot is actually a shot that won me the X Games gold medal in 2018.

As I mentioned, this is a shot of Julian Carr, pretty well established and well known skier in the ski industry.

We're at Brighton Resort up Big Conwood in Amazing Spot.

And the interesting Thing.

So the image.

Here's the thing about ski images.

It's.

I'm not going to say it's easy, but the challenge is to capture an image that really conveys, like the depth of the action that's taking place.

And that, that's one challenge in and of itself.

And then another one is photographically.

I really like it to be a very engaging photo in and of itself.

So were it not to have the action there or.

I'm a photographer's photographer, so I love engaging composition, dynamic subject matter, really great light, all the things.

And for an image, for me to stand out, it really has to have all those things.

So this shot of Julian we had, he was standing at the top of the cliff when.

And I'm way down below.

And whenever I have an athlete up there, we would always have them throw like a snowball to show me their trajectory.

And then I ask him, are you doing a straight air.

Are you doing a front flip or all the things so I can understand best how to capture him.

And he told me doing a front flip.

And I tell him where I need the apex of that front flip to be for the frame that I am looking at.

In this case, I'm looking straight up the wall of this super jagged cliff.

And it has this very imposing, impending look to it.

It's black and white, so it really distills it down to just the simple dynamics of the cliff drop taking place.

And kind of honestly the date, it makes it feel dangerous because in fact, it is.

So anyway, like, he gives a 3, 2, 1, and we were just about ready to send him.

And I could see that there was some blue sky coming into the frame.

And I knew if we had that blue sky just up in the corner, that it would accentuate his shape, his profile, doing his front flip.

So I told him to wait for a hot minute, which is never fun when you've got an athlete standing at the top of such a gnarly thing.

And anyway, he waited.

We waited 30 seconds.

The blue sky came in.

Launch this cliff.

I remember as I'm snapping frames and I just hold that shutter button down.

In this case, I'm not moving the camera, I'm just keeping it nice and steady.

I remember him coming past me and it sounded like a jet engine, like reentering the atmosphere.

It was pretty, pretty gnarly, pretty amazing.

He popped right up and then.

And he was good to go.

So.

And when did you know you got the shot?

When did you.

Was it almost immediate?

Almost immediately, yeah.

In this case, the important part was that the skier, that the subject was sharp.

And so I took a quick look, look at that, to make sure that he was sharp.

And yeah, when I saw, I knew.

I knew that we'd gotten it for sure.

And how much of your photography was to get you outside so that you could do the things you wanted, and how much of it was that you were outside doing the things you wanted?

But man, you were a really good photographer.

Yeah, I think it, it balanced out, right, the.

I certainly found my love for photography early on in scenic landscape.

And by default, I was already in these beautiful places.

I just, I just was.

Whether I was hiking or biking or camping or fishing or whatever it might be.

And I just wanted to share these places with other people.

Right.

Like, I just wanted them to see what I was seeing.

And so that, that was a big part of it.

And then I think as my career progressed, I found opportunity to marry where my skill set lied, lay in what I loved with an opportunity to create a career.

And there, to be honest, there are some things that I really held on to.

Like, I actually never really shot that much cycling or mountain biking, and that's because I wanted something for myself because inevitably you get in these places and you're doing these things and you're always on as a photographer, especially if that's what you do for a career.

And so I definitely never really shot a bunch of cycling or mountain biking because I just wanted to have it for me.

Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.

If my son hears this, he's going to be.

He's gonna, he's gonna have a light bulb go off and go, wait, I can ski all I want.

If I become a good photographer, I'm gonna warn him.

I'm gonna warn him that he's going to have to like.

Skiing was actually the last thing I started shooting professionally, one of the last.

Because I just had such a hard time shooting Pow instead of skiing.

Pow.

And you really got to commit yourself to, to, to capturing.

And it's same thing with fishing, to be perfectly honest.

I always said if the light was good, I was shooting no matter what.

If the light was crappy and the fishing was really good, I'd maybe be fishing.

But you've always got to be willing to, to give up the doing in.

In favor of the capturing most of the time.

I. I am not a fisherman, but I did love the movie A River Runs through it.

And the imagery, the cinematography of the fishing in that movie can make just about anybody be romantic about fly fishing.

So I think good photography of fly fishing is pretty amazing aesthetically.

It lends itself so well to the lens.

Just the motions, like backlit casting, water coming off the line.

Right.

Fish jumping.

It takes you to beautiful places.

One of the last places.

One of the last jobs I shot before technically retiring from photography was in the Seychelles at a place called Cosmolito, which is an atoll in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

It took us north of 50 hours to get there from my home in Salt Lake City.

Yeah.

And it's taken me around the world, so there's a lot to be said for capturing that.

All right.

Anybody who's been patiently watching on YouTube has, of course, noted your hat.

So I think it's time that we get into your second career, which is you being an entrepreneur.

And if you're not watching, then you won't know that Adam is wearing a hat that says hairy is scary.

And for the two of us who have shaved heads, that is.

It's true.

But that's not really what the hat is referring to.

So, Adam, tell us about bolt shaving.

Tell us how you came to the.

You create that endeavor and what's it all about.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

As a cyclist, I've shaved my legs for the better part of my adult life.

I shaved my legs with a pink razor and a bar of soap, like so many of us do.

And a number of years ago, I had an aha moment where I was like, I shave my legs.

I know a lot of guys who shave their legs, whether they're triathletes or swimmers or cyclists or crossfitters or bodybuilders.

Or maybe they're just everyday men who shave their legs by lifestyle choice.

But in any case, there was no brand.

There was no brand.

So I started doing a little bit of research and really couldn't find anything.

Couldn't find.

There wasn't an image.

There was a product.

There wasn't even a mention.

You'd find some really crappy YouTube videos of UK cyclists, like, in a Howard Johnson motel showing you how to shave their legs in the sink.

And I'm like, okay, this has got to change.

There's an opportunity here.

So, yeah, I decided to make a full career shift, and Bolt Skin and Shave was born in.

We essentially, we have a razor and shave products for that are specifically designed for coarser leg and body hair, which men have.

Men's leg and body hair is much, much different than a woman's.

And our razor is significantly heavier and heftier than what's out there.

The blades are Swedish steel.

They're not going to go into all the technicalities, but put a lot of work into this.

Raised quite a bit of money.

A CPG startup.

So CPG is consumer packaged goods.

It's very expensive to start a business.

And the razor was designed in Finland by a gentleman that had done work previously for Apple and Mercedes Benz.

It's a thing of beauty, but it shaves even better than it looks.

We've got shave products.

We got a shave butter post shave lotion and exfoliating leg scrub.

Those were all formulated and manufactured in Connecticut in the lab in Connecticut.

It's been an amazing journey.

We are the official and exclusive shaving sponsor of USA Triathlon, which has been really great, really fun to work with them and project podium in developing those athletes and supporting them.

And I spend a lot of time on the road, like where we met.

So I attend a lot of races and expos and events and introducing Bolt to the masses.

We've been in business just over 15 months or so, I want to say, so still very early in our journey.

But we've had great response and great traction.

It's wild.

That's great.

And is it going well so far?

It's going well.

It's going well for sure.

It's.

We're up this.

We're up 300% like year over year.

This year versus last year.

We're growing.

I would hope to be.

We added Black Edition razors.

We've got.

Our brand colors are blue and yellow and black is the new black.

People love black.

So we added a second razor.

It's called the Black Edition.

That's been selling incredibly well.

And it's just been really fun to see people's response and reaction.

And then the honest truth is once our customers use the product, they're just blown away.

Most men attribute it to an electronic tailgate on a vehicle.

Like, you never know you needed one until you had it and then as soon as you have one, you can't stop it.

So that's how it is with Bolt.

Like, you can get by.

You can have that, get it over with.

Use whatever's in the corner of the shower activity.

But we've made it more of a treat yourself experience.

It feels good, it smells good.

Most importantly, it works so much better.

The way I say is like you jump out of the shower, you wrestle with the chainsaw.

It's.

It's pretty good.

You can find us online@boltshave.com or on Instagram at Boltskin Shave.

All Right.

And are you still cycling, Adam?

I am.

I'm starting to claw back a little bit of work, balance, have a race.

Always tough starting a business, right.

It's tough, man.

Like, I really enjoy doing longer endurance races like Park City, Point to Point or for any Utah people.

They're going to know what those races are, but especially in.

So the road scene loaded.

Jazz.

A 206 mile race.

It's from Logan to Logan, Utah to Jackson Hole roadies.

If you're in Utah, it's like your rite of passage and so you start doing it and just becomes a tradition.

And then in my later years, I started doing more endurance mountain biking in Park City.

Point to Point is 77 miles.

It's 11,000vert.

It's all single track.

It's a dream come true.

Honestly, the first year I did, it's a very hard.

It's a hard race, but riding your bike is your mountain bike as fast as you can for as long as you can.

That's pretty awesome.

It's pretty awesome.

Not racing, but definitely finding some time to get out.

Not quite as often as I once did, but I'm still getting out for sure.

Just got back from Sun Valley, Idaho for the 4th of July and did some great writing there.

It was.

And do your kids ride now too?

They do.

They race Nika here locally, so they do the high school racing league and I'd say they're lukewarm on it.

I do a decent job of just kind of letting them go at their pace.

I'm still all in, I gotta be honest.

I just love it so much and I don't want to be burn out.

But they do enjoy it.

They do enjoy it.

Yeah.

I ask because I've mentioned on the program a few times recently my.

My own son who's 16, he's quite a proficient runner and he's really taken to cycling and it turns out he's really good.

And he has.

He's come on several rides with me and he just drops me all the time.

And it's a little bit humbling.

It's a little bit.

But it's also fantastic.

I just love to see.

It's awesome to see your kids grow up and become so proficient at something that you love.

Totally.

And he has started to talk to my wife about how he needs to shave his legs so that he can pick up a couple of watts here or there.

So there we go.

There's plenty of studies that show you can grab those extra watts and also too, like I tell people, it's like not just about power.

Like, you spend enough time on two wheels, you're probably going to hit the deck, right.

And it's a whole lot easier to clean up road rash or dirt out of your when you get hair in there.

So we'll get you something product for sure.

No better first experience.

There you go.

Adam, I can't thank you enough for spending a little bit of time with me chatting about your career as a photographer, your enthusiasm for all things outdoor cycling and skiing, and of course about Bolt, which was the way that we got to meet out at the boulder.

70.3.

Will you be doing any more expos in the triathlon world?

Yeah, so we'll be.

I think we'll be at Boise here.

I think that's.

I don't know when this airs, but that's July 25 and 20.

I think it's the 24th.

This will come out after that.

But y.

We will have been there.

We'll be in Tempe, I think in November.

There is a USAT endurance exchange event in January down in Florida that I think we'll be at and we'll fill in the calendar with some other trial as well.

But it's mostly western US because we're based out of Utah, but we do get Midwest and sometimes Southeast as well.

So just look for a big yellow tent, the big blue B in the middle, and most likely I'm going to be the guy standing under that tent.

A very friendly and talkative gentleman wearing the Harry is scary hat.

That's right, Adam, I can attest is just a fun guy to talk to.

So by all means, if you see them out at an expo, make sure you stop by and say hi.

Adam Barkin, thank you so much for chatting with me.

Barkin.

Adam Barkin is somebody I know here in Colorado, Adam Barker, thank you so much for chatting with me today on the Try Doc podcast.

It's been a real pleasure to connect with with you again and I wish you all the success in the world for Bolt Shaving and I hope to chat with you again in the future and see how things are going.

Thanks very much, Jeff.

Thank you for having me.

Appreciate it.

My name is Stephanie Van Bever and I am a proud Patreon supporter of the TR podcast.

The TriDoc Podcast is produced and edited by Jeff Sankoff along with his amazing interns Cosette Rhodes and Nina Takashima.

You can find the show notes for everything discussed on the show today as well as archives of previous episodes@www.tridocpodcast.com do you have questions about any of the issues discussed on this episode or do you have a question for consideration to be answered on a future, future episode?

Send Jeff an email@trycloud.com if you're interested in coaching services, you really should.

Please visit tridocoaching.com or lifesportcoaching.com where you can find a lot of information about Jeff and the services that he provides.

You can also follow Jeff on the Tridoc Podcast Facebook page, Tridock Coaching on Instagram and the Triodoc Coaching YouTube channel.

And don't forget to join the Tridoc Podcast private Facebook group.

Search for it and request to join today.

If you enjoy this podcast, and I hope you do, I hope you will consider leaving a rating and a review as well as subscribe to the show wherever you download it.

And of course there is always the option of becoming a supporter of the podcast@patreon.com forward the music heard at the beginning and the end of the show is radio by empty hours and it's used with permission.

This song and many others like it can be found at www.reverbnation.com where I hope that you will visit and give small independent bands a chance.

The Tridock Podcast will be back again soon with another medical question and answer and another interview with with someone in the world of multisport.

Until then, train hard, train healthy.