Jen DeLuca

[00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome. So happy to have you back. So Jay's episode is an entry with Jen DeLuca. So Jan actually came on the shell About three to four years ago, talking about the Renaissance fair. So I decided to not only include the episode where we talk about her current series, which is Haunted Ever After which is a paranormal ghost town, serious small towns, serious it Santa Florida, which is a lot fun.

It's perfect for this fall season. But I also figure why don't we just listen to her previous episode? So just episode's a little bit extended. I'll make a note once we do, but the first part of the episode is , the new book that she's promoting and , her current broker recommendations.

And then the next part is her previous interview. So you get a little bit of both, you get more recommendations from some backlist titles that you can find them on the library as well as more information about the Renaissance Faire.

I hope. He endured this episode.

Laura: Hi, Jen. Welcome to watch your next podcast.

Jen DeLuca: Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Laura: So happy to have you here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jen DeLuca: Well, my name is Jen [00:01:00] DeLuca. I currently live in Tucson, Arizona. We moved here during the pandemic, which do not recommend piling a whole bunch of your cats in the car and driving across the country, but we did it and we survived. We I live in Tucson, Arizona with my husband and a house full of rescue pets.

I've been writing now full time for about five years. I have four books out in the Renaissance Faire series, and then I have first book and the Bonita. Your key series just came out in August.

Laura: Yep, I love your Renaissance Faires. I'm excited for the Boneyard series because it's a little bit paranormal and set in

Jen DeLuca: It is.

Is. It's a little bit paranormal and it's, it is very much set in Florida. I lived in Florida for about 25 years. So, it's very much my love letter to that weird ass state.

Laura: yes, and it's actually like my kind of Florida because I live in West, I live in Tampa, but like I actually spend enough time in Orlando and spend enough time to, the coastal towns and stuff. So it's this part of it that's connected to this [00:02:00] weird part of Florida. It's not just Miami that people assume that

Jen DeLuca: Yes. Exactly. It's very much I very much wanted to write about the spots in Florida that kind of aren't people's first choice. When, if you're taking a Florida vacation, you're going to Disney, you're going to Universal, or you're going to Daytona Beach, you're going to Miami and South Beach, you're doing that sort of thing.

But there are so many, there are so many tourist attractions that are that mid tier, you go down a little bit and you've got Weki Wachi. You've got crystal, crystal river. You've got St. Augustine, you've got cedar key. And so a lot of these places I kind of put into a blender and came up with boneyard key as a setting for this novel,

Laura: I love this. So let's talk about Haunted Ever After. What is the other way to pitch?

Jen DeLuca: the elevator pitch. And this is the pitch that I gave my agent. And this is what she gave to my editor at Berkeley is if the last great American dynasty by Taylor Swift was actually written by Jimmy Buffett and then turned into an episode of ghosts on CBS. So you've got a house with a history, you've [00:03:00] got wacky Florida vibes, you've got very light hearted hauntings.

Laura: Yes. And we got some ghosts.

Jen DeLuca: Yes, we have some ghosts, but it's one reader described it as Scooby Doo horror, which I can totally get on board with. It's not scary. I am a wuss when it comes to horror. So, it is very much along the lines of things like the Haunted Mansion at Disney, Julie and the Phantoms on Netflix again, Ghosts on CBS, which is an amazing show if you haven't seen it, go see it.

Very lighthearted, fun look at. At ghosts and the paranormal and the afterlife.

Laura: Yeah, so what led you to start writing to explore this area of this genre of paranormal like, like a different orderly because the Renaissance fair is working straight up contemporary, it does have the idea of the Renaissance fairs and it's just romance that's happening. But here we got this other element in addition to purser couple falling in love.

You have this element of paranormal existence. And so what led you to do? [00:04:00] Were you a paranormal reader? And you're let's experiment? Or are you just let's just refresh? Let's do something different now for this new

Jen DeLuca: Kind of a little bit of both. I've always been into paranormal ghost stories. Tarot cards If you've read my series the fourth hour wall travel dealt with tarot cards. There's also, again, in Florida, a small town called Casa Dega, which is basically a small, a very small town that's run in, that's entirely populated by psychics where you go there and you get readings and channelings and tarot readings and that sort of thing.

So that's something I've always been interested in. I've always loved ghost stories. They're just, I, to me, again, I'm a wuss when it comes to horror but ghost stories are more kind of creepy and kind of what ify, where are these real? Is it not real? And it's just something that's always intrigued me, and I've always loved a good ghost story.

So, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to write next when I finished While Traveled, and I was kind of playing around with the idea of writing a ghost story, and then I just kind of kept coming up with different ghost stories, approaching them from different angles, what kinds of [00:05:00] ghosts, and just different things, and I thought, well, I can either just send all of these ideas to my agent one at a time until she says, knock it off with the ghost stories already, or I could come up with kind of a setting.

And then I could put all those ghost stories in it. So that was how I kind of came up with the idea of Boneyard Key. And then it just became, I decided to make it a haunted Florida tourist town where, it's your, they're got their t shirts and they're, trucker hats with ghosts on it.

And it just they lean into it just to make a buck basically.

Laura: Yes, because life is tough in Florida. So we do need to make a lot.

Jen DeLuca: exactly.

Laura: We need those tourists to give us a little bit of money from the side.

Jen DeLuca: And, most of the tours are like, like I said, are going for those Disney dollars, going to Disney, going to the big theme parks. And so, kind of, I feel like the small towns the smaller tourist destinations kind of have to fight for what's left.

So that's what, that's how Boneyard Key is contributing is they're they got their ghosts.

Laura: I love this. So let's talk some book recommendations. What kind of books do you tend to read? Are you reading right now?[00:06:00]

Jen DeLuca: Oh gosh, I mean, I read a lot of romance because I write a lot of romance, so I'm definitely, I have, friends who, I've made friends with fellow romance authors and so I read their books, they read my books. But I really kind of read a, I do really read a little bit of everything.

I was on a, I was big on fantasy when I was younger. Again, I kind of got away from it and then I sort of have been drifting back to it a little bit again, lately. I like, Straight up fiction sometimes and Patchett is a favorite author of mine for sure. And she just writes beautiful, just lyrical kind of stuff.

And actually, like I said, basically anything. There's not a whole lot that I don't read. I like a good biography so often. I like a good I'm very into history. So I'll, if a specific subject in history interests me, I'll pick up a book or two about it. I do tend to read more fiction than nonfiction, But yeah there's not a whole lot that I won't read.

I mean, I was that kid that was reading the back of the cereal box, at breakfast. So.

Laura: I love this. And so what [00:07:00] kind of do you have any books to recommend our listeners to pick up? Like maybe one or two titles?

Jen DeLuca: Absolutely. Again, like I said, Anne Patchett is one of my favorites and a recent favorite that I've read of hers is Tom Lake, which is, it's a kind of a dual timeline kind of thing. It's a very just kind of intimate portrait of a family, but it's also about a Somerset theater, which as a former theater kid, that was something really exciting to me to read about.

But just the way that she writes. I don't know how to put it. Just interpersonal relationships is very inspiring to me. Just the way people relate to each other in different ways and connect. And it's something that very much inspires me as a writer. So, I'll just, I'll read just about anything that she writes.

She's one of those that sort of sucks you in. Like it really, like you don't think much of it. Like when you first pick it up, it's just like, Oh, this looks interesting. But just then, suddenly you're halfway through the book and you can't put it down. So she's amazing. Another recent favorite, well, it's a couple years old now at this point, but Pride and Protest by Nikki Payne is a Pride and Protest retelling.

I cornered her at StimulantCon last year and [00:08:00] basically just forced her to listen to me tell her how much I love this book. It's the way that she does an Austin retelling is the way it should be done. Like, it's not just, beat for beat retelling Pride and Prejudice. It is figuring out who those characters in Pride and Prejudice are, what makes them tick, and then writing a story around that.

Like, you still kind of recognize the things happening. It's definitely that retelling, but it's just, to me, it's on such a deeper level because she's just, she understands those. Those characters and those archetypes and she tells the story in such a fresh, modern way at the same time that it's just blown away.

I was completely blown away. And like I said, I forced her to listen to me go on for a good five minutes about how awesome that book is. I love it so much.

Laura: Yes. And there's a follow up, and there's a follow up book. So there's Sense and Sensibility,

Jen DeLuca: it's on my TBR, which is roughly a mile high

Laura: If you're with Prime Project, then you go to the next one. So you have two books too, bitch.

Jen DeLuca: yeah, the next one's based on Sense and [00:09:00] Sensibility, right? Yeah, and I really want to read that one. And then another one that I've read relatively recently is Killers of a Certain Age by Deanna Rayborn.

Laura: So good. I

Jen DeLuca: So good. It's about female assassins? Or is it just yeah, they're like, yeah, they're assassins.

But they're all like retired, basically. So it's kind of like the movie Red. Where it's about these, older, former spies slash assassins who are kind of, Forced out of retirement because someone's coming after them and it's just, as someone who's Approaching that age of myself.

It's it's so refreshing to read about older women kicking ass It's just it's and Deanna Rayburn's just you know, she's a knockout of an author no matter what she writes. So but that particular one is a lot of fun, and I think she's got a sequel, I think, coming of that one.

Laura: I saw it on NetGalley. So I'm actually excited for the sequel.

Jen DeLuca: Oh, so excited about it. That was one of those books that I really enjoyed, and I was like, that was amazing, and then she said she's writing a sequel, and I was like, oh my god, like, just blew me away, so, [00:10:00] so excited.

Laura: Yes. And the and patches audio books are narrated tend to be narrated by famous actors. So I think Tom Lake was narrated by Meryl Streep. And I think the Dutch house was narrated by Tom Hanks. So if you want to have your actor.

Jen DeLuca: His narration of that that was a pandemic read of mine, and it was so good. Yeah.

Laura: So if you want that experience, that's like, go for the audio book. And so,

Jen DeLuca: Oh, definitely.

Laura: these are great recommendations. So Jen, tell us where we can find you online.

Jen DeLuca: You can find me online at jendaluca. com, and then you can also find me primarily these days on Instagram, which is jendaluca writes.

Laura: Awesome. Thank you, Jen, for being on the show.

Jen DeLuca: Of course. Thank you.

Now we're heading to our 2020 episode we're agenda. Look a talks about the Renaissance fair. So this is about , four or five bucks ago. So I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode.

Jen DeLuca and Laura Yamin: Welcome to the What's Your Next Podcast.

Today's guest is Jen DeLuca. Jen has been writing and series The Renaissance for romances. In this interview, we chat about her source of inspiration, her writing process, [00:11:00] and some fun book recommendations. Now let's go, Jen, over here. Hi, Jen. Welcome to the What's Your Next Podcast. Yeah. Hi, thanks so much for having me.

So happy to have you here. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, I'm not sure where to start. I'm born and raised in Virginia and I went to Virginia Tech. Go Hokies. And from there we moved Florida probably in the mid 90s or so. So I've spent about 25 years in Florida and now, I'm actually coming to you live from a whole bunch of boxes because we're getting ready to move to Tucson, Arizona.

So it's been a little bit busy in this pandemic the last few weeks. I can imagine just moving the pandemic, just like in a whole set of new challenges. Oh, yeah. But I think we're up for the challenge. And so, where in Virginia are you from? The Richmond area. Oh, cool.

What inspired you to become a writer? I am one of those people that I've been writing as long as I can remember, honestly. I remember one of the earliest memories is taking pieces of notebook paper and kind of folding them in half. My mom would staple them like down the middle or, down the middle so it would be a book.[00:12:00]

And then I would just write stories in there and they were, I was probably in the six or seven year old range. So I was writing a lot of stories about girls who had dogs and took naps. Because that's about all I had going on but it was just something that I've always done. I've always I started reading at a very young age as well.

My mother was very good about reading to me when I was very small. And then as I learned to read myself, I was just, always absorbed in books. And so I think it was sort of natural that my brain. Went to writing stories too. So I've just kind of like I said, I've been doing that pretty much my whole life It's just sort of been something that's always been a part of me.

I love this And so what was that journey to get that first book published? It's a really long journey. Like I said, I started when I was really small and I don't think I really took it seriously until I was always somebody that would do, like, do a NaNoWriMo, and I would just sort of throw a story out there for fun, and I probably started taking it seriously, I would say, about maybe 10 or 12 years ago, where I really started thinking, I wonder if I can actually write something that's [00:13:00] publishable.

And you sort of have to make that decision for yourself, where you kind of go beyond the Just having fun with it to, to taking it seriously and really trying to improve your craft. And so I took some workshops. Did a, I still did NaNoWriMo because it's a great way to, to kind of get words on a page without judging yourself.

And I'm trying to remember exactly the timeline. I started querying my first well, I created my first novel back in 2005 and that went absolutely nowhere very quickly. And then that, that lives in a drawer and she'll never ever be discussed. And then I started querying another novel in late 2014 and I started getting a little bit of traction from agents like revise and resubmit requests and things like that.

So I knew that I was getting better at it. I ended up doing pitch wars. I was a mentee in pitch wars. I worked with romance writer Brighton Walsh, and she was a great help to me in figuring out exactly how to, to pace, pace my stories. And shortly after Pitch Wars, I signed with my agent, Taylor Haggerty, in late 2016.

And then the book that we signed with, She Made [00:14:00] the Rounds didn't sell. And so while I was waiting to find out the fate of that book, I started writing this Ren Faire novel. And then that ended up being the one that got sold and got published. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. It's, it was amazing, but it was also a very long journey to get there.

It's one of those things that when it happens very quickly and it's very exciting. But sometimes you sort of, all you see is that tip of the iceberg and you don't see, you sort of forget about all those years that it took for you to get there. Yeah. I love asking you this question because it's just, it's so, Every author has his own journey and the process, like, the manuscripts that you write, and the ones that don't get published, and the ones that get you the agent, and the ones that get you the book sold, or that's not even the book that's gonna be published, right. Fascinating. That whole process. It's interesting because I mean, I I know that there are people who think, Oh, well, then it's a waste if it doesn't get published, then what's the point. But the point is to me is that you get better at it and you learn, you learn what [00:15:00] works and what doesn't work.

And then. Books that you've written are never ever a waste because you can go back and steal from them. So, I do that a lot. So, you can, steal a situation or just a description of, somebody's eyes or something. There's always, you've built yourself this little, like, library of stuff you can go back to.

I love this. So let's talk about writing. Do you have an outline or just you were just ready to? I have to have an outline. I'm I've tried, I've done the panting thing sometimes and in that sort of, to me that's too scary. I have to have an outline and it's even, it's not even like a really detailed one.

I just basically when I'm starting a story, I do a bullet point list. Sort of the scenes, this is going to happen, then this is going to happen, and this is going to happen. It's all very vague, but I at least have to know where the story is going to end. And then I start writing and I have followed those, all those little plot points as kind of like landmarks or signposts or something.

So I know where [00:16:00] I'm going to end the journey, but the journey itself can get all kinds of twisty, and weird, because I don't plan it to that small of a detail. Because when I'm writing a first draft, I'm getting to know the characters. So I don't really know what makes them tick yet. And writing that first draft and making, having them follow that story is what, what makes me get to know them.

And by the time the story's over, I know who they are. So what's the process of getting to know the character? Do they show up to you on page, like as you write them, or is it something that you sit down and you're like, okay, this character is going to look and act this way and these are some of the things that are going to happen for them?

It all kind of comes slowly. Like I'm definitely one of those people that does like the Pinterest board and like the kind of different mood boards are having that's got pictures of characters or actors and, who can kind Give me the embodiment of the characters.

There's also like song lyrics on there and stuff like That just kind of reminds me of the story or the characters [00:17:00] so I kind of have a basic look in mind and then I don't know. I'll just sort of start out with again like kind of a vague idea of who they're going to be and then then as i'm writing They might say something surprising and I need to figure out why they said that thing And so i'll need to kind of figure out their backstory To make it make sense if that makes sense, but yeah, it's all a process It's all building on what I've started writing And then when I come back to the second draft and I figured out, okay, why did he say that in chapter four?

And then I figured out his backstory that I can then kind of go back and weave in at the beginning or something like that. Well, I'm fascinated about the whole process of like crafting this story. And like how do writers come up with these great stories and they're like, these characters have real life and backstories and all those different things.

And so it's fascinating how they get to, the writers get to know the characters. How did it come to be? Yeah, to me it helps me to get to know them while I'm writing them. I know people who do like the, like a big like questionnaire kind of thing with all these different, and I tried [00:18:00] that but to me that's almost a little too like restrictive because I'll start writing and I actually have them start talking and then that's to me is when they come alive, is when they really have, when I have dialogue and stuff on the page and their person, that's when the personality really starts to come out.

And one, one example I can use about this, if you want me to expand on it a little bit. The character of Mitch in Well Met was originally supposed to be sort of the antagonist. He was supposed to be this like overgrown like high school jock bully that never got over. His glory days of high school and he was, living in a small town and he was just going to be this absolute jerk that, is also hot and wears a kilt.

But and the idea of him was he was going to interfere when Simon and Emily get together and well met. He was going to kind of interfere in that and it was almost going to be sort of a triangle ish situation. Oh, and that was my plan the whole time. And then I started writing the book and. He would walk into a room and he'd say something funny and he'd fist bump the kids and [00:19:00] he would just be this super fun guy to hang out with and he'd be a jerk like I would try to have him say something horrible and he just wouldn't do it.

And I was like, okay, this guy's not going to be this, he's not going to be this. This bully that I want him to be. I was like, let's just see what he does. And so I just sort of, would put him in a scene and he would say the things that he would say, and he would just be this super nice guy.

So I was like, all right, well, I guess that's who he is. . Yeah. So, gosh, . Yeah. And that's amazing. It's like the more you write, the more you know the character, yeah. And I've never been one of those people that says, oh, they tell me what to do. 'cause I'm like, no. If I'm writing a book, I'm telling the characters what to do.

I'm in charge here. But in my, in this case, I was not in charge at all. Yeah. And what a different story it would have that, Mitch was that way. And I think it worked out better. I think it was, it's a more interesting idea for him to be, for him to be a nice guy and he, you have to find that out, Yeah, and we can root for him.

Like, as, as well as readers, you can root for him. [00:20:00] Be like, okay, when is this story coming out? Which we know it's coming but it's really fun to see, like, all these characters, even the villain's character stories. Like, we root for everyone to get a story. So, I think it's a fun way to root and be like, okay.

When is he gonna fall in love, yeah, well, yeah, because I remember hearing, that said, everybody's the hero of their own story. So like, and that's a way, to me, that's an interesting way to approach writing characters, even like, even bad guys, even villains in the story.

Everybody is the hero of their own story. Everybody's the star of their own life. So yeah, everybody's got that, what makes them fall in love, and what, what makes them tick. Everybody's got that. It's fun to figure it out with people. Yeah. So How do you organize yourself as a writer?

How do you keep track of your ideas, inspirations, and characters? I well, like I said, I do the Pinterest board thing that helps me with like a lot of the visuals And then I also have a Spotify playlist that I sort of put together while I'm writing and I throw [00:21:00] songs that make me think of the story or the characters and I just kind of throw them all on there and kind of keep adding to it along the way.

As far as actually the actual writing of it, I have I have a traveler's notebook, there's like these leather bound notebooks that have the strings in them that you put the inserts inside. I actually have one of those and I had, I keep a separate notebook for each project I'm working on.

Oh, okay. Whenever I have an idea for just, and this was from this kind of started back when I was working full time and so I would, I'd be working at my desk, but I'd also have an idea for some dialogue or I'd have an idea for how the scene should be rewritten and I would just scribble it down real quick and I found that it helped me to have just some little notebook with, for each book that I'm working on so then I could keep all those notes together as opposed to having to just have like a million post its all over the place.

So, so yeah, so now I have a traveler's notebook that has, an insert for each project that I'm working on. And then I just write those ideas down in there and I'm actually thinking this is really forefront in my mind since I'm [00:22:00] working on a, a draft right now when I finished the draft, then I kind of go back and read through all those notes to see what I missed.

And then I can see what I forgot to put in there and then I can, figure out places to stick those things that I forgot. And it helps to have it all written down and all, organized in one place. And that's pretty much it. And like, I kind of keep outlining as I go. Like I said, my, my outlines are pretty vague.

But then, like, when I'm, say I'm halfway through the book and then I'm, and my notes. It's just like, one of my notes were well met, one of my outlines was, they're a couple, it's fair, and they're cute. Like, that was literally all I wrote down. So, I had to figure out what that meant. Oh, gosh. So I'll kind of, like, revise my outline as I go, and like, flesh it out a little bit more.

Like, okay, in this scene, this is what's gonna happen, and this is how they're gonna react, or whatever. So, I kind of, I kind of keep organizing myself as I go. I love this. So do you share a work along the way as you wait to complete a father's charade? I have some very wonderful people in my life that read for me while I'm writing the [00:23:00] first draft, and it is their job to say all nice things because because writing can be really lonely, and it can make you really unsure of yourself.

So to me, it helped me so much to have certain really trusted critique partners that will just read the draft with me as I write a chapter, I emailed it to them, or I'll dump it in a Google Doc and I'll send it to them. And they're, they're cheering me on, they're finding, good sentences that I wrote, like, oh, this is a great description or something like that.

And then by the time it's over, by the time I've finished that first draft then they're also will help me bounce ideas of the rewrite because they know what I've written already. So it's really helpful to me to have people to bounce those ideas off of and then I have some other beta readers who kind of read the second or third draft, where it's a little bit more in shape and then they can, then their feedback is completely different.

And that's very helpful. So it's really, to me, it's super, super helpful to have people read it at different stages because their feedback's going to be a lot different. What was the source of inspiration for the [00:24:00] Wellmet series? Did you have a plan out as a series or was it just going to be standalone and just like, the reception was like, we need another book.

Gosh, a little bit of all of the above, honestly. Well, I mean, the inspiration of it came from a renaissance fair that I attended that was up in central Florida for many years. And then I ended up volunteering with them for a couple of, I want to say summers, a couple of seasons.

And while I was there, I got the idea for writing a story set of the renaissance fair. Yeah. And then as far as the series itself, I just when I was set out to write it, I wasn't intending on a series. I was just writing a fun renaissance fair story. And then as I got probably, a few drafts in, and I really had a good handle on all of the characters, I thought, well, yeah, I really want to write Stacey's story now.

I really want to write some more about Mitch. I really want to write some more about April. So it ended up Being I sort of dropped some hints like little almost like almost breadcrumb type things Like I could expand on this later if it's if somebody wants more books But if I but if it somebody doesn't want more books, it's fine it didn't wouldn't take away from the book by itself.

[00:25:00] So it's definitely a good standalone but then It was nice that they wanted more and that I get to write more I'm super, super excited about that. This is so exciting. I'm looking forward to mentioning a new post story. So let's talk about your research. What was that research like to get a Renaissance Faire?

Like you place a Renaissance Faire in Maryland. I'm in a small town, but there's the Maryland Renaissance Faire and we talked about that. That, those are mentioned. What was your research like? Like, you were a volunteer at a Renaissance Fair, so you may have some experience, but did also research other things, other pieces?

Well, I did, I definitely the main research came from being a volunteer at the Renaissance Fair. I the one that I worked with was the Lady of the Lakes Renaissance Festival in Tavares, Florida. And it is very much, I basically just. stole it and stuck it in a book. It is a kind of a small town.

It's northwest of Orlando. Oh, okay. And the the Run Fair is that county's one of the county's biggest fundraisers. It's mostly, most of the [00:26:00] cast is volunteers. They, even the, like, the, all the alcohol is donated that we, that gets sold at the, at the taverns. All the food is donated and prepared by the culinary students, so they get credit.

A lot of the cast are high school students, and they're getting, like, community service hour type things. A lot of the adults are volunteers, and it's just this big, it's a two weekend event. And it's great and I watched it living there. I watched it grow from this thing that was like, kind of at the municipal soccer field to being in this gorgeous wooded area that where it takes place now with, lanes, it just winds the trees and you just really feel like you're in another world when you're there.

So I volunteered there and I was just so I'm struck by how I felt like a different person. It wasn't just like acting. It was it was, you're being somebody else for a day. And I loved the idea of two people who don't like each other suddenly falling in love in character and seeing a different side of each other in character.

So, [00:27:00] So, like I said, a lot of the research itself just came from working the fair by myself. But I set it up in Maryland just because I really like that area. I have some family up there and that kind of wine country area of Maryland where there's kind of some small towns and there's kind of those green rolling hills and I just sort of pictured sticking it somewhere in there.

And and it was fun to kind of, to realize it, because I didn't realize at the time when I first decided to put it in Maryland, I didn't even know about the Maryland Renaissance Festival. And then I looked it up and I was like, oh crap, that was a bad idea. But then it ended up kind of working out because I could make it all sort of fit, make it part of the scenery.

Yeah. So. So what was your character in Renaissance Faire? Oh, I was a tavern wench. Oh, I love it. I was a tavern wench. I yeah, I wore a corset and yelled Huzzah to the generous tipper a whole lot and flirted with anyone and anyone who came into my tavern. And it was a good time. It was a really good time.

I love that. So for Wolf's Day, we have a relation of the bullets upon emails, texts, [00:28:00] and just mistaken identities. For Mr. Dubuque, what picked this story? You're on. Like, I mean, I know we spend a lot of time doing this as well, which I love, but We spent quite a few months, like, just getting to know each other a post epistolary way.

Well, the idea for it, it was sort of, my riff on a Cyrano de Bergerac kind of story, where but twisted so that Stacey, so we're seeing it from the recipient's point of view, we're not seeing it from the point of view Of the man who's wooing her we're seeing it from the point of view of the woman who's receiving You know receiving the letters and the texts I turned letters into emails and texts, you know for 21st century, obviously, but So that was sort of the inspiration of it and just the idea of somebody stacy is stacy's very she's very into social media.

She's Very concerned with appearance. She thinks that people want a certain person out of her So she's you know, she's that cheerful bubbly friend You But she has this sort of, sort of thing where she feels like she has to be the cheerful bubbly friend where people aren't [00:29:00] going to be interested in her if she's not that so a lot of the book ended up being about, the difference between, what you show the outside world and who you really are and appearances versus what's inside.

So I kind of took the Siena de Bergerac idea and just sort of built on that for Stacey's book. I really identify with Stacey's journey just the whole process of like, just going back to her parents house and just You know, trying to figure out, like, being, trying to figure out who you are in your 20s, and then, yeah, and it's such a, it's such a hard time, because time moves so quickly and all of a sudden, you sort of blink, like, Stacey just sort of blinks, and suddenly she's, she's not too far from 30, and she thinks, she sees all of her friends who have gotten married, and, Settle down. And she's like, I haven't done any of that.

And what, what's happened and yeah. And figuring out who you are at that stage of your life is as hard. It is hard, and I love Daniel, like the way he approached her, like, he was like, no, he just went strong enough that [00:30:00] he was like, I'll support you. Like, being a shoulder to listen to, even though he Dax.

I, like, it was like, it's okay. Like, most of the time, like, okay, it's a big lie, but it's like, no, he was just, he meant well, hey, I know, and honestly, while I was writing it, too, I realized, I'm like, this is really a hard thing to make sympathetic. It's such a big lie. And that was honestly one of the things, and I, and to me, it's so funny because the, that trope, the whole Ciano is such a, it's a very pretty popular one.

Like you see it, especially recently. I've seen it a lot recently. And it's just, it's all based on a big lie. And so it's so to me, that's so funny. And it was hard for me to make it forgivable, I think. And I hope that I was able to pull that off because I feel like he got into, he got himself into that situation where he's caught in the lie and he has to keep it up and he doesn't know.

At what point to say, Oh, by the way, this isn't true. I, and I think a lot of people, I think that's something that's happened, that's [00:31:00] a common thing. Is that, you find yourself telling a white lie and then that white lie gets bigger and you think, okay, I really should have come clean about this by now, but now there's no way to come clean about this, like it's, it, we're past that point, so I think that was, I think that to me is something that I tried to make him sympathetic about where he realized, wow, I really should have come clean about this a long time ago, but I don't know how, because it'll just make everything, everything end. And he doesn't want that, obviously. Yeah, and I really love the conclusion, like, how Stacey and Daniel end up being together.

It just, it makes sense for Stacey's character, for someone who loves her, to go through that journey and to be like, okay, this is what I'm willing to do, which is a whole different, Change that she's willing to take to make. Yeah. And I think, yeah, she realizes that's what her light what she's been wanting out of her life.

The, and I don't know are we allowed to be spoilery with this conversation or yes. Yeah, let's do it spoil alert. So that's, they end up together. But yeah. Well, yeah. Spoiler for the [00:32:00] ending, but but I think I sort of. tried to sort of clue it in that that really, she's living this life in a small town.

And the only thing that really is making her happy is when the rent bear happens. And that's the part where she feels alive. So, it sort of makes sense that she ends up basically living her life on the road, and she's been living in this little tiny apartment, and she realizes that she doesn't need a lot of, material things, that, that life is more about experiences.

And she so, so it's sort of, to me, the signs all pointed to her living that life, on the road with him, and that's her home. She doesn't need to have a big house, or, lot of material possessions. That's not her. Yes. So what can we expect about Mitch's story? Well, that is the book three is mentioned April which is also something that gets used a little bit in the second book.

They have a couple of scenes together towards the end of well played that I, I would hope would clue people in that, that they're going to be next. I'm not sure how much I can really say about this one yet, but it, what I have [00:33:00] said a little bit on social media, it's got fake dating between the two of them.

And it's sort of got double fake dating where he He asks her to be his fake girlfriend for a family event and then He ends up returning the favor when she's in a jam. So it becomes just this sort of vicious circle of fake dating to the point that April sort of forgets that they're not actually dating and she has to kind of keep reminding herself, no, we're just friends.

There's a little bit of an age gap to them. She's about nine years older than him and it's not a huge deal, but it's definitely something that, April is at the stage in her life. When this book takes place, her daughter, Caitlin, is about to go to college. So she is, she's 40 years old and she's an empty nester, and, or about to become an empty nester and, thinks of Mitch as this young guy and he's, he's in his early 30s at this point in the story, but, he's still very much that, just guy who goes and hangs out at the bar on Friday.

He's not somebody you would think of as wanting to hook up with, the mom of a college age student. So, [00:34:00] So, but she doesn't make it a point about being an HVAC like, or he's too young for her or does she? I think that's definitely something that she's concerned about. I don't think it's the main concern, but it's definitely a concern.

You can get to the point where I think when I think of age gap, which I absolutely adore them, like they're great. I think my biggest gripe is love. You watch love is blind. Yes. Okay, Jessica, for her 10 year age gap, which is not a problem. Like, he was like, it's not, yeah, I honestly, that was something that I had a lot in my head while I'm writing this book right now, is all I can see is Jessica just complaining about that 10 year age gap, and I'm like, okay, I can't turn April into that.

Because, yeah, but it's something that I think that, I think, Okay, and here's what I think though, because I think that it can, I think 10 years can be a lot, especially for certain ages. If you've got, somebody that's in their 20s and somebody that's in their mid 30s, when you're in your mid 30s, you're a little more kind [00:35:00] of wanting to settle down.

And mid twenties can be a little more about going out and having fun, and I can see that being an issue. And I think I think that in the case of April and Mitch, it's not so much about the number of years between them, but just the fact that she sees herself as a mom and an old person, even like, she's just starting to hit that point where her, like I said, her kids off to college.

So she's starting to think about herself and what she wants for the first time, basically since she became an adult. And she's just, she doesn't see, she doesn't see him as quite as a grown up as much as she probably should, especially at the beginning. I think she does, he definitely comes to appreciate him, but as you would but yeah, I think that it's, I think that it comes down that so much as years as experience and life experience.

But yeah, the love is blind thing definitely was like, okay. Yeah, that's really bad And I think the problem with the love is blind thing is that's all she said though was just like oh i'm older than you And that was it. That's all she said. That [00:36:00] was the whole point of the He's 10 years younger than me.

He's 10 years younger than me. It was like So what? I love when she kept telling people that. She like had that thing, like she went out with her friends that one night and she was like, oh, but he's younger and they're all like, so like, go for it. She's like, no. Yeah. I think that's when it became kind of like a driving force.

So I think for age, yes, age gap. We were like, you don't wanna be like Jessica who only concern was the age gap she had. No, I think she used that as an excuse. I think she didn't wanna be with the guy. And I think she was using that as an excuse, like that was the most convenient reason. Yeah. I agree. I don't think she wanted to be with Mark.

Like this was like, I think she wanted to get out of Mexico. I read somewhere in one of those like gossip. And then they told her, no, you can not get out of Mexico. Like that other couple had already broken up, so they had to keep, like, [00:37:00] yeah, I remember that. So, it's funny. Yeah, I'm not a reality TV show person, but yeah, I binged the heck out of that.

Me too. Oh my gosh, I watched the whole thing in like two days. It was just, oh my god. It was good times. It was. Awesome, so let's move over from the tangent let's go to a writing book recommendation. It's an opportunity for you to share with our audience what is your read, Max. What is your favorite genre?

Gosh, I really do read mostly contemporary romance. I dip into historical romance every so often. Every once in a while I'll go into Like a sort of a fantasy or a sci fi book, but that's typically what I read. I love it. And what has been a book you read this past year that you love? Oh, just one?

Or you can mention a few. Oh my God. Well, there's some really great contemporary romances that I've read lately. The Roommate by Rosie Dannon. It's going to be out in September. It comes out the week before Well Played does. And It's highly recommended. It's a it's a contemporary romance with a [00:38:00] very type a personality heroine So she's somebody who makes like laminated lists and things like that and she ends up being roommates with a porn star who is just It is, adorable, hot, golden retriever of a man who does porn and it's just, it's one of the best books I've read in a long time.

So I'm super, super excited for it to hit the world. So other stuff that I've read lately that I love is something to talk about by Meryl Wilsner girl gone viral by Alisha Rai is really good. I'm currently reading deal with the devil by Kit Rocha. Which is a like a more of like a sci fi sort of romance thing and it's, I've just started it.

I haven't gotten very far into it because I've been so busy with writing and with packing my house. But but yeah, it's on my nightstand right now and it's really great. It's stuck to me and really well really well. I'm trying to think if there's anything else right now that I've read that I really love.

I read The Starless Sea a few months ago by Erin Morgenstern. I'm a big fan of the Night Circus. I love this. Where can people find you online? Online? I'm jendaluca.

com is the [00:39:00] easiest place to find me. That has all of my You know all my different social media stuff.

Thank you, Jen, for being in the show.

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. This was great.