Hey, friends, and welcome back to Faithfield Living.

This is your host, Kristen.

Today I have a great guest interview for you.

We are going to talk about my guest's new book called Insatiable.

It's a memoir of her life, and we're going to talk about her walking through a childhood of trauma and abuse, self abandonment, and what that looks like and what that path led her on and how she finally came to have a relationship with Jesus.

She's going to share her story, and we're also going to talk about what it likes to.

To do the work you need to do to heal and what it looks like to continue to put yourself out there, to do, to partner with God.

We're going to talk about what forgiveness looks like and what that looked like in her life.

But at the end of this, I think you're going to be inspired and you're going to have hope that no matter what you've walked through or what you're walking through, whether it's a hard season or you just feel like there's no way that God could love you or forgive you, this is an episode for you.

Because all of us, he is just waiting for us, and we can always be redeemed.

So I hope you'll listen and I hope this episode just speaks to your heart, because it did mine.

Welcome to Faith Fueled Living, the podcast that equips you to live well spiritually, emotionally, physically, and purposefully.

Each week, we'll dive into conversations and biblical truths to help you strengthen your faith, pursue meaningful work, hear for your whole self, and live in line with what matters most.

Hi.

On the podcast, I cannot wait to watch welcome our guest today.

I know it's going to be a powerful conversation.

I know it's going to be a heartfelt conversation, and I think it's just going to change something within you.

Because when I read one of her most recent books that's coming out this month, honestly, I mean, I was both moved to tears.

I felt so many things.

I felt like there were so many relatable moments in her story that I just, you know, I was changed by reading it.

And so I can't wait to share her story and share some of her insight with you.

So I want to welcome Leslie Montgomery to the show.

Yeah.

So, Leslie, I'm so excited that we get to have this conversation.

You know, you've been writing for a long time.

You've written many books.

You've also ghostwritten many books.

You've done so many other things.

Of course, you've worked with Charities, you've worked in, counseling roles, you've gone around the country, you know, talking about your story, about your testimony, you know, and you've gone through some rough things, especially in your growing up time.

And of course we'll get into some of that.

But you know, the point of the, of I think your story up till now is that you continued to grow, you continued to move forward and you found your faith along the way.

And from that point your faith has been able to help guide you, counseling has helped you in therapy, get to a place where, you know, you felt the worth and value in yourself that God sees in you.

And so I just think this conversation is going to move a lot of hearts.

And so I can't wait to have it.

Can you start with just sharing with us a little bit about life now and just kind of your journey and what that's look like?

Well, I will tell you, you know, suffering really is subjective because, you know, the issue is we all go through it, you know, I mean, there's not anybody who doesn't go through hard times growing up.

And I will never pretend to anybody that life is easy now because life is just hard right Today I write books, I ghostwrite.

I didn't share this in my latest book just mostly because I'm just a protective mom.

But I have two teenagers now, I have two older kids, I have two groups of kids.

I have a 40 year old and a 41 year old and then I have a 15 and 17 year old that I didn't mention in my latest book.

But yeah, so God is faithful.

He does restore the years eaten away by the locusts.

As you know in my latest book, he's so faithful.

And I'm grateful that when I became a Christian, one of the greatest verses he gave me was, I promise to restore the years eaten away by the locusts if you surrender your life to me.

And he has been so faithful to me in that every area of my life that I've surrendered to him, he has redeemed.

But life didn't start off easy for me, as you know.

And, and probably the most stark story I can give you to start that off is to tell you that my parents met when my father took my mother out on a date and raped her at gunpoint.

And that's.

My mother was forced to marry my father at that point.

And that's how my family tree began.

And from there it got rough.

It got rougher.

I endured years of sexual abuse from my father and grandfather.

My father was a violent alcoholic And I grew up under that for many years.

And when.

I mean, it was just a horrible lifestyle.

My father could not hold a job.

My mother was predominantly our financial provider.

My grandfather also provided for our family for many years.

And then.

He.

I remember when I was about eight years old, I told my mother about my grandfather abusing me.

We would go there every weekend to visit him.

And I think my mother was under a lot of pressure because my grandfather was providing for us a lot financially.

I remember as clear as day today, I can see my mother in my grandmother's house in front of the refrigerator, and me telling her what was going on with my grandfather and her leaning down in front of the refrigerator and putting her finger in my face and her saying, you tell your grandfather that if, if he keeps doing that, you're going to tell your grandmother.

And I remember thinking, oh my goodness, my grandmother would be so mad at me if I told her that.

And.

And I just knew that I was on my own at that moment.

And I just felt so lost and scared.

And so I just knew I.

This wasn't a safe place for me to share, that I was going to have to carry that burden by myself for the rest of my life.

And so I went on with my life.

You know, during that time, I. I had this overwhelming burden as a little girl that my job was to take care of my mom.

And I grew up thinking, my mom is really weak.

And I internalized that.

That means I'm weak.

I mean, of course I didn't realize that growing up, but I internalized that.

And I realized that later as an adult, like all women are weak and I'm weak and my mother's weak.

And so when my parents fought, I would try to get in the middle of them.

And the older I got, I became a lot of the parent in that relationship with my mom, where I would try to protect her and my dad would come home drunk and I would help her with my dad.

My dad got a job when I was about 11, 12 years old, working for the local forest service.

And I befriended a co worker of his, a woman named Marta.

And she was getting married and she invited me to be a part of her wedding.

And I used to beg my father to spend time with me.

And he was very traditional women, you know, you spend time in the kitchen with your mom and I'll take the boys fishing and hunting and oh, I used to.

I'll take hunter classes, I'll go fishing with you, I'll hang out and help you fix the car.

I was just so craved my father's attention, and he would.

He would, you know.

No, no, no.

Women are good for one thing, you know, And.

And I knew what that one thing was, trust me.

I mean, I. I did not remember a time in my life when I was not having sex.

I mean, that was just what I knew I was for.

And.

But when I was 12 and Marlo was getting married, my dad said, only Leslie and I are going to the wedding.

And I thought, oh, my goodness, I'm so special in this moment.

I'm so special.

I get to go to the wedding with my dad alone and look on my mother's face.

I would have known something was up because, boy, I knew how to read a room, you know, I could walk into.

I mean, to this day, I can read a room like that.

But I didn't know.

I was just so excited that I was going to get to go with my dad.

But we went to the wedding, and they were getting married in a racquetball.

A racquetball facility, because they love to play racquetball.

And as they were getting married, my dad pulled the fire alarm because he was so drunk, and I was so embarrassed, and my dad was.

I was trying to get my dad together just like my mother had taught me, right?

Just get dad together.

You're the parent.

Dad's not the parent.

You're the parent.

And we ended up going to the reception, which was at his boss's house.

And my dad was making crude, inappropriate jokes.

And so I hid on top of the washer and dryer, those little, you know, hallway, you know, And I was looking through the slats, watching my dad be inappropriate with people.

Late into the night when he was drunk, I helped him drive home.

And we got home and help my mom.

My mom was sitting in the window, help my mom get him in the doors, into the house.

And we were getting him in his room, and my mom said, you need to leave.

And I said, no, I'll help you.

I hope.

You should get.

Get out of here.

Get out of here.

And I. I left in the hallway.

But it was my job to take care of my mom.

And looking through the hallway, looking through the bedroom, the door was shut here.

And I looked through, and my dad started grabbing my mom.

And I remember in that moment, my dad was starting to grab my mom.

And I watched my dad rape my mother through that door.

And there's something happened to me at that moment that I can still remember.

I literally felt like I left my body when I Watched that happen and something shifted in me that I no longer tried to get my dad's attention.

I felt like, I hate this man.

I'm not going to do this anymore.

And I was frozen and I had so much shame just pile on me in that moment and self hatred that I tried to kill myself for the first time a week later.

And after that was a pattern of trying to kill myself from 12 to 19, 20 years old that just didn't stop.

And this cycle happened and I knew I could never get that attention from my dad.

So I started seeking out older boys, older men to try to fill that void inside of me and left my home at 16 to get married, have babies to fill that void and went through that cycle.

So yeah, I mean, obviously so much.

And you're new, obviously you have a couple new books or devotionals and things coming out.

But your book, Insatiable, I mean, yeah, it's, there's so much in it, right.

You know, but obviously one of the reasons you share it is because even with all the heart, heartache and all the trauma and everything else, right.

That not being able to, to get love from your, your dad, especially, you know, your grandfather or getting the wrong kinds of attention, all of it was because there's redemption right later on.

But you walked through so many things until you got to that point.

And so I guess, you know, one of the things you talk about, one of the I guess things is just you, you learned how self abandonment, I mean, at a very early age.

But you, you lived in that space for a very long time.

And so I guess what would just be the first thing you'd you just say about that?

Because I think it's that all of us, most of us can relate to, especially as women, having felt like our voice has been, we've been told to be quieter or we've been told, you know, that we're being, you know, overreacting or so.

So I think all of us have had some parts of us, we've been told to be quieter or to, to not take up so much space.

But obviously in your case, because of all the trauma and the dysfunction, you know, it was to an extreme point of that.

But what would you just share with us about, you know, the whittling down, right.

Of kind of your own self worth and things like that.

And how do you get that back, you know, after years of going through that?

Well, you use the word, I use a lot in the word in the, in the book, which is self abandonment, we learn how and women we're so good at that.

Right.

I mean self abandonment we learn early on and in the church is really good at this.

We promote this right.

Which is not, which is not Jesus at all.

Jesus never promoted self abandonment early on as a child I learned how to.

My mother was a perfect example.

Look, the best example of how to be a woman as a woman is our mothers right.

We learn that from our mothers self abandonment in the church.

You know, we think being a volunteer is self abandonment.

That's not humility.

That's not humility at all.

Humility is, is service.

That Jesus example is, is surrendering ourselves for Christ, not sacrificing ourselves for Christ.

Total difference.

Yeah.

We, we.

There's only one Jesus and it's him, not us, you know.

And so we surrender to him and, and surrender ourselves.

Our pride is different than, is different than surrendering our bodies or our service.

And so we have to learn that.

But self abandonment is the, is giving of our ourselves in a codependent way.

And so my mother taught me to do that.

And my mother would clean up after my dad's sin.

And we should never clean up other people's sin so that they don't feel the consequences.

And we as parents do that for our kids so that they don't feel the consequences.

And then when they don't feel the consequences, they don't grow in Christ.

Or we do that for our mates so that they don't feel the consequences and grow in Christ.

And what we're doing is we become the Savior for them and then we wonder why they don't, why they don't get saved.

Yeah.

And.

And we do the same thing for ourselves is, is we ask other people to be our Savior.

Think about that in our lives.

Like I'm financially struggling so I ask my dad or my friend to rescue me instead of changing my, you know, budget.

Yeah.

And surrendering it to Christ or whatever it is that we're struggling with.

Right.

And so.

Or we go to the church and ask them to rescue us financially or you know, and so we have to.

I will tell you in my life, people say, oh you've made so many changes in your life.

Listen, it has not been easy.

I've had to surrender all these areas.

This has been struggle against my pride.

It has it.

I've had to wrestle with my flesh and it's not been easy.

It's been hard.

I had to get in the Word and struggle my flesh with the Word.

I've had to.

I've read some great.

I love the old sayings.

Like Andrew Murray, who's wonderful if you've never read any of his work, you know, his book on humility is my favorite, favorite book of all time.

The Path to Holiness.

Humility.

The Path to Holiness.

I bet you I bought 50 copies and given them away.

That book is unbelievable.

And it's a rub about how to work your spirit.

Like you're wrestling with God, but it will change you.

That's what the word of God is supposed to do.

It, it's living, it's a, it's a double edged sword.

It's supposed to, you know, work your spirit out.

Absolutely.

So, yeah, as you've sort of, kind of given us a bit of a summary, right.

Of life through, I guess, your later teenage years, you know, just touching the surface.

But so, you know, when you left your home, like you said, you got married and you had several children.

But you know, obviously all of your past, all that trauma just kept bubbling forward, right?

You trying to numb yourself, all the things.

And so you found you find yourself doing much of what some of the things your dad did, right?

Balancing checks, not taking accountability because you're just trying to like find your way.

And you really don't know how to do that, right.

As this young mother and wife to a husband that you're not even sure you know, you got married to get out, right.

I think you call it the escape or something like that.

But what would you just say you end up because you bounce?

I think it's because you bounce so many checks you ended up getting put in county jail and then going to, I don't know if it was called jail or what they called it.

But so you find yourself there now, you know, that's, that's a place from before that you've kind of been seeking out, right?

Like maybe more dangerous behavior, right?

Like you said, relationships with men, you're just, you're just trying to find affection, love, like, you know, I don't even care, right?

There's all these things going on with all these wounds, but you find yourself in jail where now you can't do those things.

And so what would you say shifted there, if anything at that point, you know, because obviously there's much more to the story at that point.

It's a great story.

I will, I will tell you.

I will, I will say to you, the last time I tried to kill myself is really instrumental because I tried to kill myself.

I took 48 sleeping pills and I should have died.

My phone, I didn't have a phone that worked.

I was in a place.

I washed it down with a lot of alcohol, and my mom found me.

And I had written a suicide note to my kids and to my mother.

And she walked in and she found me and took me to the hospital.

And I woke up, and I was handcuffed to a hospital bed.

And the nurse walked in and said, hey, you scared us.

You know, and my mom was there, and she.

She said.

I said, how'd you find me?

And she said, I called her.

I didn't have a phone that worked.

Yeah.

And we both knew that it was a miracle because I didn't have a phone that worked.

How did I call her?

And she worked at a job.

I didn't have her phone number.

I mean, I wasn't even a Christian.

And we both knew it was a miracle.

But I was handcuffed to a hospital bed because I had written several thousand dollars worth of bad checks.

I grew up with a dad who wrote bad checks, so I didn't think there would be consequences.

But there I was, and they gave me.

I had written bad checks previously, but I had gotten probation.

And here I was going to jail.

And, I mean, I went to jail.

Jail.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was facing a five to eight year sentence, but the judge said, hey, listen, I'll give you a break.

Which was just a miracle in itself.

If you can make it work for six months, then I'll let you out.

And I didn't know what that meant to make it work, but I was willing to do whatever it meant to make it work, not to go back there.

And these women that I was in with, they had been in there multiple times, and they were like, no, this is no big deal.

And I was like, oh, there's no way I'm coming back here.

So I'm sitting there in jail, and it's called doing time for a reason.

There's nothing to do there but lay there and do nothing.

And during that time, my mom and dad had divorced.

My mom was working at a truck stop, and there was this man named Art that traveled.

This is in Idaho.

That traveled the West Coast.

He was retired from West Point or from the army, and he mentored West Point cadets, helped them get into West Point.

And so he traveled the west.

West.

West Coast.

West coast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Idaho.

And he would stop at that truck stop, and he got to know my mom, and they became friends, and they would talk.

And my mother shared with him about this wayward daughter that she had had that was in jail.

And he said, hey, you know, I'll mentor her, I'll write her letters.

And so he started writing me letters.

And I'm a writer.

My mother says I was born with a pen in my hand.

And so he starts writing me, started writing him back.

Then he start.

He gave me permission to call him and I started calling him, started talking to him.

And Art said, listen, I believe you've been dealt a bad hand in life.

I think you're very talented.

You know, he never made excuses for my poor behavior.

Yeah, excuse me.

But he said, I really believe in you.

Listen, I've never been told that before.

Yeah.

I'd never been told I was smart before I was 20 years old, 19, 20 years old.

I'd never been told positive things like that before.

I know that sounds surprising to some people.

Yeah.

But never been told that.

And here's this male figure telling me positive things about myself and I'm eating it up.

Yeah.

And I'm sending him stories I'd written.

I mean, I'd been writing screenplays and poetry and songs and ever since I was 8 years old.

And he was feeding me positive feedback.

I went to, ended up leaving jail at like three months and going to a halfway house.

And he continued to give me positive feedback.

Positive feedback.

I ended up getting out early and moved back to my mom's and I went to classes and counseling and I mean, just really getting on my feet really well and moved back with my mom.

And I'm telling Art man, I don't know, I'm really going to struggle here.

I'm back with my old crowd.

And he said, leslie, I live in la.

Why don't you come back?

Why don't you come to la?

I have a two bedroom place.

You have your own bathroom and I'll pay for your college.

I'm like, what?

What does this guy want from me?

I've never had a guy who didn't want something from me.

Yeah.

My two kids were living with their dad in Arizona and my mom said, listen, he's not like that.

I end up moving to la, getting on my feet there.

He pays for my college.

Great guy.

Treats me like a daughter.

Encourages me to call him dad.

I thought, I've never had a dad like this.

Loves me like a dad.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

Amazing man.

Buys me fresh flowers every week because he says, you know what?

I want you to know your value.

Yeah.

We go out to dinner every night, we sit and we talk.

Helps me get a job.

First thing I do is I graduate high school within 30 days.

He says, listen, I. I have something for you.

A graduation gift.

I said, really?

Because.

Yeah.

Gives me a Corvette.

Yeah.

Boy, that's a present.

Not a brand new one, you know, 20 year anniversary, but still Corvette, you know.

Amazing.

Yeah.

He celebrates every milestone I make.

Like, it's huge, you know.

Yeah.

I graduate college, of course, I moved to Tennessee.

Then I graduate and.

And he.

I moved to Tennessee because I'm writing music, I become a counselor.

And he just celebrates everything.

He's like, my daughter did this.

I can't believe my daughter did this.

My daughter.

I mean, he's just so proud of everything.

Writes me, you know, letters every week that I'm in Nashville.

Calls me three times a week, week.

He just pours into me.

I mean, if I had to sit down and write, you know, character traits of a father.

And I'm telling you why this is so important.

Because I was so abused as a child that now Art was.

He was raised a Christian, but wasn't living as a Christian.

I will say it this way.

And he was a Texas guy.

I mean, he had a Texas straw as thick as honey, but he.

If I hadn't been loved like that as a father, I'm telling you right now, I would have never received Jesus Christ as my savior.

I would have never believed that there was a heavenly father who would love me unconditionally.

And I believe that as true as true can be.

Because when I was in Nashville living and I got on my feet, became a counselor, had a great job, I had money, I had my kids back in my life, my life was what you would call perfect from worldly standards and.

And had great friends.

I had just gotten a contract with BMG writing as a songwriter.

My life was doing well, and I had this big void inside me.

I was so empty.

And I was like, what is wrong with me?

And then I cried out to God for the first time in my life and ended up meeting a Christian and hearing the gospel.

And when I gave my heart to Jesus Christ, I never questioned God's love for me and believing that he loved me unconditionally.

And that is because of Art Montgomery.

And I took his name and changed my last name because I thought that is really who I am.

I am Art Montgomery's daughter, and I accept that name.

I've never been my biological father's daughter.

I've never been this man that I married to get out of my house's wife.

I've never been this man's girlfriend.

I've never been this man's Anything.

I am Art Montgomery's daughter.

That fits me.

Me.

That's who I am.

But when I became a Christian, I never doubted one for one minute.

God could love me unconditionally because of Art Montgomery and the way he loved me.

And I believe God brought him into my life so that I.

And I will tell you, when I got saved, God grew me up so fast, so quickly.

He brought instrumental believers, Neil Anderson, who wrote the bondage breaker and 12 steps of freedom of Christ, Ed Murphy, who wrote a handbook on spiritual warfare, other people into my life to mentor me and love me, to grow me up quickly.

I mean, I write books very quickly.

I was speaking.

I was, you know, ghost writing.

I mean, I was doing so many things so quickly.

Teaching, traveling so promptly that he wanted me.

He.

He had a ministry for me, and he really wanted me to.

To mature quickly.

I mean, devour God's word.

Yeah.

So that's like, I have a purpose and a plan for you, and I need you to grow up in minute, you know, quickly.

And.

But it's been hard.

It's been very hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

So good.

And, yeah, I mean, that's definitely a highlight of, you know, of part of your life.

And in the book is just all of the stories about Art and how he impacted your life.

Definitely a godsend, for sure.

You know, and that's one thing you talk about Art and then one of the counselors you worked with, but it was that it was the first time and the importance of this for us to do this in other people's lives, which is what reminding them, like, even if they're not or you weren't where you could become.

It's encouraging people to say, I can see that you have so much more potential.

Right.

That you can be so much more than where you're at.

And that's what they gave to you.

Right?

Not just.

I mean, of course he gave you love, he gave you encouragement, but he also showed you that you are not your past.

Right.

And you have the potential to do so much.

And I think sometimes we underestimate the power of us playing that role in other people's lives.

And it does not have to be just our own children.

Right.

It can be through mentorship, it can be through community, it can be through church.

It can be through so many ways, but I think sometimes we underestimate that power.

Yeah.

And I will tell you that, you know, and you mentioned Betty, Betty Tindall in Nashville.

She's passed away.

Art's passed away.

But you know, Art invested years in me.

Betty invested 30 years in me.

You know, she.

You know, I think a lot of times we have people who come into our lives and they go, hey, you need to be fixed right now.

And if you're not fixed in the next 30 days, I give up on you.

You know?

But it was impossible for me to be like that.

I couldn't.

I had all these years of hurt and pain.

And Betty and Art both knew something that a lot of times the church or people in the church don't understand.

And I had a woman come into my life in Nashville who was like, you just need to remember in the 80s or 90s, when President Reagan's wife said, just say no to drugs, and the whole world started laughing and going, yeah, right.

If it was that easy, we wouldn't have.

Right?

And it was similar to me.

To me, she was like, just say no to these things.

And.

And I took her to see Betty with me.

And Betty tried to explain to her, it's not that easy.

Leslie has years and years and years in your trauma.

And this lady was like, you know, yeah, you know, I wish she could see my heart.

I wish she could really see my trauma and see my heart, that I'm working this out with God.

I'm really, really working this out with God.

But she couldn't.

You know, it's not.

I'm working on a project right now.

It's like, with a crisis and suicide nonprofit.

And some of the things that people don't understand is we have to learn to see beyond looking.

We have to learn to hear beyond, you know, beyond just, you know, or listening beyond hearing.

We have to learn to stay.

We have to learn to stay beyond, beyond just being here and staying means, you know, it being like, I'm not just here with you right now.

I'm going to be with you tomorrow.

I'm going to be with you next day, I'm going to be on.

And it's hard to stay, right?

It's hard to stay because I really want you fixed right now.

Yeah.

And part of that's about me.

It's like, because I feel pressure.

Like, if you're not fixed today, then there's something wrong with me.

Job's friends were like, okay, then it must be.

You must be have sin in your life, right?

If you don't have sin in your life, then what's wrong with you?

You know, or what's wrong?

No, it's okay for me to shut my mouth and just be with you.

That's Right.

Well, first of all, I think that's.

You bring up a really good point.

And it's, it's that.

It's that we so often want other people or ourselves to fit this mold or expectation or, well, why aren't you like other Christians?

Or why aren't you like my other.

Like, for instance, even my own sons, I have to be careful.

And they check me plenty.

But, like, now they're at the age where some of them don't want to necessarily.

They'll do game night or dinner or whatever with us.

And don't get me wrong, I know that's a gift, but, like, I'll think, oh, let's go do something fun.

Let's do an outing, let's take a trip.

And some of them are kind of like, I don't really want to do that.

Like, and of course my heart is like, I feel like you're online too much.

You're this.

But then they try to say, you're trying to compare us to what you think we should be like, compared to your friend.

Like, and they're not wrong either.

Right.

And I have to remind myself, just because my child, adult child, isn't here doesn't make that wrong.

Or everyone's on a different path.

Everyone's on a different timetable.

And sometimes we do try to put on someone else.

Right.

An expectation we have, which only causes trouble most of the time.

Right.

And so we just have to be patient and we have to remember.

But like you said, much like art, we're there to encourage each other.

We're there to support each other.

If we're healthy.

Right.

And if we've done the work to be healthy, we're somewhat healthy.

Like, we're here to do all those things, not to try to tell somebody what they should fit into, you know, And I think that that can be hard as humans because we want people to fit in really easy to understand boxes.

And that is not how people are.

And that is not how life works.

We have to learn, too.

This is so hard.

Step out of ourselves.

Yes, yes.

And step into Jesus.

Absolutely.

One of the things that I was just writing about this is Jesus never.

He never forced people out of their past.

So important.

Forced people out of their past into next week.

He always looked at them in the present right now.

He didn't, like, erase their past.

Yeah.

He was just like, I'm going to be present with you right here, right now.

You know, I was listening to a call at the hotline the other day, and it was this kid.

It was like 22 years old.

And he was like crying and crying and crying the whole call, like a 40 minute call.

And he was suicidal.

And it was like, did you tell anybody else in your family?

And he was like, yeah, and my dad.

And my dad told me to go to bed and sleep it off.

And I'm just like, why couldn't you just say, I'm gonna sit with you until this is over?

We're not willing.

But I'm guilty of that myself as a parent.

Just get over it.

Why can't.

You know?

Because we dismantle Miss People.

We're so guilty of that as parents.

Because, hey, we.

We say it in the same way.

It's like when I was your age, you know.

Yeah.

Just mess it with our kids and.

And I.

Instead of just being present.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because we minimize things and we do that with people all the time.

We minimize them instead of just being with them in the present.

Their experience with.

Right there, right then is so valid to them.

That's right.

We may not understand it often.

We probably won't understand it.

Yeah, I mean, I. I remember.

I think I did.

I think I did a podcast episode probably two years ago about it.

And I think I maybe wrote a little short thing.

But, you know, my son that had been struggling with depression and came home and we were very fortunate.

He told us, like, I think I had definitely heard from God about a month before he came home.

I knew something was not right.

And, you know, I started having different conversations with him, but it was just a God prompting.

Like, I didn't have.

He had not told us anything that led us to know that.

But when he got home, I remember just thinking like, he.

He likes peanut butter toast too much.

Like, he eats that too much of his diet and he eats other stuff.

But I remember just saying, like, the most important thing I might have done today was make him peanut butter toast.

It wasn't because he couldn't make himself peanut butter toast.

Right.

I was saying I love you without having to say I love you or having ask them 600 questions that day.

And, you know, sometimes it's like you said, it's being present and not trying to fix everything because it.

Things can't be fixed always today or tomorrow or in a week or a year like you said, you know, but it's knowing that someone is there for you, even by just being there, you.

Know, and, you know, my daughter went through some bullying at her Christian school, of all places, and really endured it for a long time.

And we worked really hard to get it to stop.

And it didn't.

And she became really depressed and the doctor put her on medication, and that medication triggered suicidal thoughts.

And we knew it might, but.

And it did.

And.

But when she started having those thoughts and came to me, the first thought that came to me was like, oh, no, no, no, no, you can't have those thoughts.

I'm a counselor, right?

My pride jumped up.

No, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you can't have those thoughts.

I'm a counselor, and I'm gonna have to put you on counseling.

And, and my pride.

And I was.

And just for that moment.

And I had to go.

And then I had to switch gears and say, no, it doesn't matter.

You know, it doesn't matter because the most important thing is that your daughter stays alive.

But, but as a parent, and I've heard this so many times myself in Christianity, it's like, I'm not.

I don't want my kid to get secular counseling or I don't.

Because we don't know what they're going to say or I don't know what's going to happen here.

I don't know what's going to.

We want to control everything and listen, you know, at the hotline, they have so many calls where kids, Kids say, I can't tell my parents, I can't tell.

Talk to my mom or my dad.

I can't.

And I'm telling you, I don't care who my kid talks to.

I want them alive.

I don't care.

I don't care.

That's right.

That's right.

100%.

You just want the people around you to know they can come to you, even if they can't tell you everything or don't want to.

And there's many reasons for that, but they can trust to tell you something and they feel safe.

And I know that's not a feeling you grew up with, but obviously you've done so much work and now you've, you know, you're in a very different place.

You're a mom to write two groups of kids and, you know, you know what, what people need now.

And you, you know, you want that for your own children as well.

In the United States, you know, the highest suicidal rate is between the age of 15 and 33.

And, and just, just so your listeners know that in the United States, the number is 988.

If people have a crisis or suicidal, they can call wherever they're at, it will take them to their states.

Crisis and suicide hotline, you know, and they can call, you know, and get their states, you know, help.

And there's a lot of free resources for people.

They'll hook them up.

It's a wonderful outlet, you know, and I. I'm really glad that you got help for your.

Your son's friends.

I listen, you know, it's worth it.

It's worth whatever help you can get because you're right, you know, you want a life saved.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, okay, so real quick.

So many of us, especially today, have people around us, or maybe ourselves, have struggled with anxiety or depression, trauma.

You know, all of us have walked through something.

Some of it's small trauma, some of it's huge trauma.

Some of it, we're still going through abuse.

But the most important thing is to find resources, right, to find people that can help us walk through these things, to do the work, to be open with other people.

I mean, this is one of the reasons why.

I know you wrote the book, and it's one of the reasons why I openly share on the podcast even some of the things that my own family struggled through, like, more the depression and things like that.

Because I would want to know, oh, I didn't even know that that might be this or.

Oh, that's a good idea.

Right?

So us talking about things openly, one, lets other people know that there's hope and that they're not alone.

As a parent, as a daughter, you know, as a trauma survivor, you know that there is hope on the other side.

And so, one, I think that's important, and this is why we have conversations like this.

But you did talk about some of the different therapies that helped you.

And I don't know, is that something you think is worth just highlighting?

Because, I mean, there's a lot of therapy, but I know there's two particular that you mention in your book that that helped you.

Is there anything you just want to share about that?

Well, you know, I will say this, that, you know, that I went through some very deep trauma.

And therapy is.

Is subjective to, you know, you and your therapist.

And.

And you have to find a good therapist that works for you.

I mean, a therapist is like me is like a lawyer or a doctor.

You.

You have to find somebody who works for you.

And I was really, really blessed.

When I went to Nashville, God led me to.

To Betty Tindall.

And Betty took me under her wing like a mother.

She never charged me.

She loved on me like a mother.

I stayed at her in Tom's house, you know, when I visited Nashville after I moved.

And, you know, I mean, if she ever charged me a dime, I would have never been able to be loved on her, loved by her the way she loved on me and stay at her.

I mean, God, she told me later, you know, God never.

God told me not to charge you.

And so she.

I was blessed by that.

And so I had this incredible woman I could call any time when I was having a meltdown.

So you have to find somebody like that.

And she did traditional counseling with me.

And then she also did what's called emdr, which is eye movement type of counseling, which was very beneficial.

And it either works or it doesn't.

And I will tell you what makes it work.

I believe it works when you trust your therapist.

So you need to have a few sessions with your therapist and decide if you are okay with really trusting them and you're okay.

And I had had several sessions with her maybe a year or two before we started doing emdr.

I trusted her with everything I'd ever.

I mean, I trust her with my life.

So I, I.

When you do emdr, you get probably years and years and years of healing that you otherwise wouldn't get in a couple of sessions.

And that happened to me.

I got freedom in emdr.

That was unbelievable.

And then another type of work that she did was called internal family systems that I did with her.

And typically internal family systems in the world of Christianity has gotten a bad rap.

And I'll tell you why.

Because it talks about having like an internal, like we believe in the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and internal family systems talks about having like an internal boardroom, right?

And having all these broken pieces inside of you, and they're like emotions, and no emotion is bad.

And it's like you have this broken piece of you as a little girl, and then you have a teenager, and then you have all these broken pieces, pieces.

And they're running the show, right?

And basically they, you know, who's making the decisions at your table right now.

And I.

And I'll tell you why I love this because in my life, when I'm.

When I was sexually acting out as a teenager, and I knew that, that there was.

Or Even in my 20s, I knew that, that that was a part of me that was.

I'll tell you, I'm backing up here, but let me just.

I'm processing through something I want to share with you.

So when I was a little girl, being abused by my grandfather after he abused me, and this is really sick, but I think this is really important.

For your listeners to understand.

He would give me a hug, and he'd say, I was a good girl.

And I realized, you know, I used to think, man, I have a sex addiction.

You know, I got married, and between 16 and, you know, the time I got in jail maybe a little bit longer, I was very promiscuous.

I ended up having an abortion in that time.

And I thought, man, I have a sex addiction.

But the truth, maybe I have a love addiction.

I'm looking for love.

But the truth was that I learned in counseling with Betty is I just wanted to be held and told I was a good girl.

And when I learned that, it was a light bulb moment for me.

She said, leslie, you don't have to have sex with men to be held.

You can just ask Permission to be held was so powerful.

It was like I couldn't just ask somebody to give me a hug.

I can just say, can you hold me to your chest and tell me I did good today?

Oh, my gosh.

I don't have to perform to do that.

Holy moly.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so my whole life was built on two things.

Fear and performance.

And I am an overachiever.

I mean, my walls are filled with letters and accomplishments for mentoring and from presidents and vice presidents and politicians and all kinds of junk, you know, and it means nothing to me.

I mean, impresses people, but it's nothing.

Yeah.

Because I just want to end well before Jesus.

I want to raise my children.

I just want to end well.

Yeah.

I just want Jesus.

You know, I. Yeah.

So, so good.

So, yeah.

So in that note, let's dive into some other things.

So you have had, you know, you've been writing for, you know, decades, and you've done all sorts of writing and obviously done other things, like you said, mentoring, counseling, you know, so many other things, you know, raising children.

But you also talk about some other things I want to dig into.

One is you and I are in that time where we have adult children or teenage and adult children, but we also have walked through, or walking through an aging parent.

Right.

You've.

You've talked about that.

And so what would you share with us about, you know, this is a tricky time, but so many of us, so many of the listeners and I know even for your new podcast coming out, are going to be in this age range.

Right.

That sandwich.

The sandwich years.

And so what would you just share with us about this time?

Because it is the reality of what most of us are or are going to walk through.

You know, I'll tell You.

It's a tricky time, isn't it?

I mean, especially if you have trauma.

Because, you know, I had to work really hard on forgiving my mom of all people.

I mean, I used to think that the hardest people I was going to have to forgive was my dad and my grandfather, and I forgave them.

But the hardest person, they both deceased.

But my mother is still alive, and she's, I would say, going through the early stages of dementia.

And she can be mean sometimes and.

And I've had to work through forgiveness with her, and she's taken responsibility for.

We've sat down several times and talk about the things with her that I had to go through as a child, and I have forgiven her, but she can be very sharp at times and mean, and so I have to keep forgiving her.

I will say that this, for your listeners, is that forgiveness.

I think a lot of times in the church, we give the impression that forgiveness is an instantaneous thing, and forgiveness is actually progressive.

You know, it's a choice of faith that we.

We do continually.

Like with my dad, it was, you know, Jesus tells us to forgive.

You know, it was.

It's a choice of faith.

I chose to forgive my dad, and then I lived it out every single day.

It was like, I don't feel like forgiving him.

I'm choosing to forgive my dad, and I'm doing it in faith, Jesus, but I don't feel it in my heart.

And so every time a thought came up about a memory, what my father did, I said, I forgave him, didn't feel it, but I forgive him.

And it would come up, I forgive him next forgive him.

And like a year and a half in to forgiving him, one day I felt free.

Like when.

When those thoughts came up, I didn't feel resentment or angry because, man, I was angry.

I was an angry kid, very, very angry.

I would just blow up, and I had to do that every day.

And then I felt free, like a year and a half in.

So you have to choose to take your thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ and replace that with a thought with a biblical verse which is living.

Remember, it's living.

The word of God is living.

And so I did that.

And so I have to choose to do that again with my mom, replace it with biblical verse that is living and alive.

And so whoever you're forgiving, you know, and choose to do that daily.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you talk about in the book that, you know, forgiveness is peace in me because we do it because we don't want.

I mean, yes, we want to release the hold that that trauma or that person or that hurt has on us.

Right.

That's the main reason.

Because it affects us mind, body, and spirit.

Unforgiveness does.

And so, like you said, it's a process.

And you explained what you just talked about, Right.

About replacing the thought with, you know, scripture and just kind of not letting it not have power.

Right.

You call it the healing loop, you know, which is basically that process.

And then you also talk about reconciliation, which, you know, some people think, oh, well, I forgave them, so now I'm gonna let them back in my life, or what?

Or in the same way.

But you explain that reconciliation is the safety.

Is safety with you, meaning that you don't have to reconcile unless they've shown you through their habits, their behavior, their words that they've changed.

So, meaning you've forgiven people some people in your life that you didn't need to reconcile with.

Then there's other people, like your mom.

Right, Where I think you forgave her and you've reconciled the relationship to some extent.

And so I think that's.

Yeah, exactly.

So I think that's important for people to remember that.

It doesn't mean that you have to take someone back the same way once you've forgiven them.

It's two different things.

And I think that's important.

I never.

I never reconciled with my dad.

Right.

Yeah, I thought just your mom.

Yeah, I. I forgave my dad, but I never reconciled with my dad.

Yes, totally.

My brothers would give me reports here, actually, you know, through my mother, I would get reports from.

About my dad, but I. I never felt safe with him, even as an adult.

Yeah.

And my.

But.

But I have, you know, I. I see my mother, but, you know, I have boundaries with her.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

So, you know, one of the things that you do talk about is what practices, right?

What faith practices have you found over the years?

No matter what you're going through, you know, once you.

You stepped into accepting Christ and then having grown in your faith, what have you found works for you?

Because as a Christian, we all have, you know, might do it different.

Prayer, devotional, Bible study.

You know, we all have different.

Well, not different things, but, you know, different ways in which we practice our faith.

But you said you found something that no matter what's going on, it kind of kept you grounded in your faith.

Well, I will tell you faithfully, having counseling has been instrumental for me.

And of course, I call on my 24, 7.

My friends that I can call 24 hours a day and fellowship at my church.

Don't forsake the fellowship.

I'll tell you what's been important to me every day is having a quiet time reading my word of God.

This is my fourth one since I love saved.

But reading the word of God daily, practicing, praying.

This is my lifeline right here.

I eat it daily.

And this is what has brought healing to me.

And I encourage people.

I know this praying is hard.

People say, oh, it's so hard.

You have to break through what I call the five minute barrier.

If you can break through the five minute barrier of prayer, I will tell you that something beautiful happens.

Just sit through that moment.

I encourage people just to sit before God and praise him.

You are worthy.

You are holy.

You are.

And tell him who he is to you and who you need him to be.

I mean, I make up names like, I need you to be my breath today.

I need you to be my northern star.

I need you to be my provider.

You are, you know, you are my hope.

I just.

I just tell him who I need him to be.

I need you to be my strength today because I am weak.

I need you to be my voice.

Yeah.

I need you to be my husband.

I need you to be the father to my children.

I need.

That's why.

What do I need him to be?

Oh, I love that.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

And, you know, I. I've talked about this often, but, you know, I. I'm often.

Most days, not every day, probably.

I also, beyond, you know, prayer, Bible study and things like that, you know, I'll.

I'll have a micro gratitude practice, but it's more just a dialogue all day with, with the Lord, you know, like, oh, my Lord, thank you so much for this thing.

And this is the most beautiful thing, you know, but it's just that constant state of me, you know, internally just kind of praising him.

Right.

And thanking him for all the things, the little things, the big things.

And that for me, that just keeps me more connected to him right into that kind of being in that place instead of getting caught up in the busyness of the day, which is easy to do sometimes.

But if you do that, if you, if you spend time acknowledging who he is and gratitude, what that does is that humbles you because it acknowledges that there is a God and you are not Him.

Yeah.

And if you get past that and you get past that five minute barrier, something breaks in you.

I mean, he's already there, but something breaks in you.

That puts you in that space of being welcoming to his spirit.

Yeah, I agree.

Because he's already.

It's not about him, it's about you.

Yeah.

If we're.

If we're allowing him in, if we're bringing him forward.

Absolutely.

Okay.

So both of us, right.

Are, you know, in the midlife, you know, range, and, you know, you're about to start.

Be careful.

So you're starting a new podcast called faith over 40.

So what would you just share with us about that?

And then just vocational pivots, like just how things change a bit.

Right.

Once we are 40s, 50s, and whatnot.

Everything changes after 40 years.

I'm well over that, so.

Yeah, I understand.

Yeah.

You know, we just really.

For two years, we've done research.

Like, there's this market after 40 that nobody's ministering to, nobody's loving, everybody's focused on families, and there's nothing wrong with that, but we just felt like, hey, we need to bring love and ministry to the 40 plus crowd.

That.

And so I got some friends together, financial advisors, Christian psychologists, Christian doctors, and said, hey, you guys are.

They're part of my 24 7.

And I said, why don't we come together and do this?

And they said, let's do it.

And then we had a team out of Atlanta come to us and say, hey, we're interested in picking you up.

And God is just.

For two years, God has wanted this, and this is the timing, and just God is beautiful.

And so he's putting it all together.

I'm just following his lead and wrote a piece of For Focus that's supposed to be coming out this year, and another daily devotional.

I started writing a daily devotional and putting it on my Facebook page, which people can find me very easily on Facebook and putting it on Facebook.

And that's now available to almost 10 million people on Facebook.

And then so people were like, put it in a devotional.

Put it in a devotional.

So devotional is coming out this year, and then Insatiables out this month.

And.

Which is my story.

Yeah.

So.

And I'm working on a fiction right now.

So, you know, God is just, you know, I just follow God, you know, whatever he wants.

I. I'm excited.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So as we wrap up, what would you say to women, you know, in.

In for the 40 plus range?

Because so many women I talk to or I interview, it's definitely a time where many women start questioning, like, well, you know, I had this whole career, or I had, you Know, I raised a family, and I'm kind of like, what do I have left?

Or what's next?

And sometimes there's a lot of hesitation or not being sure how to move forward from this place where maybe your roles have changed.

I'd say everyone's roles change, you know, at some point in life and many times usually.

So what words of encouragement would you have for women, you know, that are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond?

I think a lot of times in this age group, because we have parents above, we have children, empty, nesting.

We feel kind of lost at this age.

Like, where do I go from here?

You know, what does God have for me here now?

And we're hormonal, and we're just kind of.

And we have extra weight, and we're like, I don't know.

But you know what?

This is such a beautiful state.

This is such a beautiful place to be, because we often feel like we're at rock bottom.

We're like, I don't know.

But this is such beautiful.

We can go anywhere from here.

Listen, this is a beautiful place to be.

Listen.

This is the start.

This is a beginning.

Let's grow roots and let's sprout.

Yeah.

Let's decide right here at this grounding space where we're gonna go.

Think of this as a place to like a.

Like I soil and decide, what do.

You want to grow?

Have your hands.

Have your hands open like this.

Open hands.

Yeah.

Lord, where do you want me to go?

I'm listening.

Choose me.

That.

That's where we need to be.

Choose me.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I often talk about one.

We need to be curious, right?

Like, what are the things that interest you?

What has gone.

Prompting you towards.

And then, you know, I have a workbook, and I talk about this concept a lot, but it's, you know, any.

At any age, but especially, you know, the 40 or 50 plus, it's, you know, we need to be reigniting that passion within us, right?

Which is the Christ within us, too.

I mean, it's all tied together because he didn't give us interests in things that we're curious about.

He didn't give us hurts without purpose and reason.

Right?

So all the things.

All that mixture is unique to you, you know, and so when we actually acknowledge it, when we lean into that, you know, amazing things happen, because all of a sudden we're lit up, right?

How God wants to use us in the world in any season, but especially in this season, when maybe.

Maybe we have more responsibility in some ways, but we also Maybe have more freedom as well, or free time now.

That we have more time with our kids leaving, it's time for us to decide.

I mean, a lot of people go, oh, it's retirement.

I'm going to travel.

I want to travel, but it's time for us to go.

Okay, where can I serve?

Yeah.

Where?

Even if I'm traveling, I saw a trip I wanted to take to Italy, I think in my mind, where can I serve in Italy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What can I do for God?

Yeah.

If I'm in Italy.

Yeah.

So good.

Okay, so what last words of encouragement would you just have as we wrap up just for people listening, you know, this is.

There's nothing God can't redeem.

There's nothing God can't restore.

There's nothing God can't take.

You know, it's so easy to think, man, I'm so.

My past is so bad.

I just messed up so bad.

You don't know my life.

You know what?

It does not matter.

God is so good at.

Look at.

Look there's.

Look at David, look at Paul.

Look at all these people in the Bible that God used for mighty purposes.

You know, if God can restore my life, he can restore anybody's life.

You know, I should be dead or in prison.

I've written for presidents, vice presidents, senators, legislature.

I mean, faith leaders.

Listen, no, there's no way.

If you told me that when I was handcuffed to a hospital bed, I'd have told you you were nuts.

Absolutely nuts.

But look what God has done.

That's that.

You know what?

That doesn't make me impressive.

You know what makes me impressive?

These four kids.

Yeah.

You know, it makes me impression of Jesus.

That's right.

You know.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Is that.

Is that when it's all said and done in life, there's nothing in this world that will fill that void inside of you.

Not one thing.

Yeah.

Not the things on my wall, not the money in the bank, not the things in my house.

I've had things in my house taken from me twice in my life.

I've had fire.

I've had a house that I bought that had horrible things like mold and fiberglass.

We had to leave it all behind, stripped from me.

Twice.

I am telling you, there's nothing in this world that will make you happy.

Jesus.

Yeah.

Nothing will fill that void.

But Jesus.

That's right.

So run after him with all of you.

Yeah.

And that.

That is what will make you happy.

Absolutely.

I love it.

Okay, so tell us.

Where can people Connect with you to learn about your book, your devotional, all the other projects you have working on, and your upcoming podcast.

Okay, so the, the easiest way to keep updated with me is on Facebook.

It's not hard to find me.

It's Leslie Ginevra Montgomery on Facebook.

I won't spell it for you because you'll find me.

Trust me.

Follow me there.

You can connect with me.

I update everybody on Facebook all the time, and that's the best way.

Okay, great.

And of course, we'll put all, you know, your links in the show notes as well.

So, Leslie, I just want to thank you for coming on, sharing your story, sharing your heart, sharing just, you know, the nuggets of wisdom.

But in the end, like you said, it comes down to how are we showing up?

Are we partnering with the Lord?

Are we just faithfully, every day just renewing our spirit and saying, I'm available, right?

I'm available to partner with you, to be used by you and, you know, just to be that conduit of love and goodness, kindness, encouragement.

You know, because like you said earlier, life is not easy and it was never said that it would be.

But when we do it together and when we partner with Christ, you know, there's purpose there, there's, you know, there could be passion, there's community, and there's so much more meaning.

Amen.

And thank you so much for having me.

I really enjoyed our time together.

As I wrap up today's episode, I wanted to remind you, if you're not already getting my emails every Friday called Faith Fridays, head on over my website and join us so that I can encourage you not just on the podcast, but weekly in your inbox.

And if you go to my workbooks page, you can grab a free download of the Joy Rising.

It is a daily worksheet that you can fill out that lets you write down things you're grateful for.

Let you write down how you saw God moving in your life, how he was present, and then also, what are the things that, that brought you joy in your day?

Because when we focus on God and we focus on the right things and we keep being grateful for the things he's already doing in our lives, our life shifts, our perspective shifts, and everything changes when we spend time with God and when we focus on how he's already moving and working in our lives.

So go over to KristenFitch.com and grab that now.

If you enjoyed today's episode, if you, if you could leave a rating review on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to Podcasts it helps the show get discovered by more people so that we can continue to uplift and encourage people in their faith journey as well as all of the other parts of their lives.