Know, it's a head to heart thing.

So you.

You absorb through learning and studying music, and then you.

You make it part of you and then you perform it.

But songwriting is the opposite.

It's heart to head.

So it's like you get inspired, you feel something and you.

You want to, you know, share it with the world and.

And then you learn the craft, which is the, you know, the thinking part of it.

So when I discovered songwriting, I was like, I was hooked.

I just.

And when I performed my first song, I.

It was a gift for my cousin's wedding, which I.

I say this in the book too.

I do not recommend writing your.

And gifting that to someone on the most special day of their lives, because that could go.

That can go terribly wrong.

But luckily in this case, it didn't.

She was really.

She.

She was really pleased.

It was very special.

So he fell in love with songwriting.

And then I started raising my kids and kept writing songs.

And I was chasing this thing called a record deal.

Cuz back.

So this was a long time ago, this would have been in the early 90s.

And everybody know.

I was like, really?

Okay, it feels.

But to me it feels like long.

It does.

Yeah.

So everybody was like, you got to.

You got to.

There's no Internet or social media.

The only way you did the music thing was out there touring or getting a record deal.

So I was chasing this elusive thing called the record deal, which I did not understand any of it.

And so I was offered a deal.

And when they were explaining to me what they would need from me, they're like, it's two years, no family, no friends, and we're gonna.

You're gonna be out there on the road and putting out music.

And I was like, I have three young boys and I don't think I can do any of the stuff that you are saying you need me to do.

So that's when I kind of realized that that dream of being a recording artist and stuff was not gonna fit with my life and the things that mattered to me.

So I just focused on songwriting and I had four more children.

So I have five boys and two girls.

Nice basketball team.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hockey.

Hockey in this house.

They're all.

Yeah, they were all.

They were all hockey players.

And so, yeah, so, you know, through those years, I started other businesses with their dad and just really learned more about business and honed my business skills and I wasn't doing the artist thing.

And I came back to it in 2014.

I had a health crisis.

And when I Was recovering from that.

You know, you see you look at your life a little bit differently, and I was like, I'm not really.

I'm not very happy.

You know, I just wasn't happy.

And I didn't realize it, but it was music that I was missing, and it was not because I wanted to be a rock star or, you know, my reasons for it were different.

My reasons became music is just part of who I am.

I just.

It's, like, woven into me.

I have to be doing it in some way.

And so, yeah, so I started back on the music path and started the label, and here I am.

Beautiful.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I'm so glad you shared that with us.

And Dee and I can both sort of attest to that fact, too, that music is everything.

Like, even.

I mean, from.

From my perspective as a musician, of course, but even on the other side of what I do, just dealing with clients that are booking events and things like that, music just for, like, even the average listener or the average consumer is a big deal, too.

So.

Even more so for someone like yourself who grew up studying music, practicing, performing, learning, had a dream, sort of going a different direction.

And it's really crazy to hear that about.

I mean, the music industry, their demands are going to be high, of course.

So having to make that sort of a choice at that stage of your life and sort of say, no, it's not going to work for me, and pivot.

I could see how there'd be a massive void there.

Even though you, you know, you're successful, you have a great family and everything else.

So, yeah, that's big.

That's.

And I.

I also think that just the idea of, you know, trying to live your life and put.

Because I kind of relate to your story where I've kind of pushed music to the side.

No, it's okay.

We could talk about it.

And then all of a sudden, you feel.

I wouldn't say like, I'm.

I definitely feel happiness, but there's a lack of fulfillment when you don't get to pursue that passion.

And I feel almost incomplete.

So when you actually get a chance to express that or use that or fuel that passion or exercise that passion, it brings out a different type of fulfillment in you.

And so I'm sure that a lot of people that listen to this, they might be going through that exact same situation where they have.

They have this passion.

It might not even be music.

It might be something else.

Might be golf or Frisbee throwing or woodworking, whatever that is, you know, so it never letting go of that passion and, you know, it might take till you're 30, 40, 50 to get there, but I think that if you get a chance to use that, hopefully it doesn't take what it took you, which is, you know, a life changing sickness or, you know, something that was, you know, really, really bad to happen for someone to actually decide I need to pursue this passion, I need to at least try.

And you know, every time I've tried, I've had an incredible response to it.

It's beautiful to know that you had that except that similar experience.

And I would encourage others, if you have that moment to try, you'll be surprised at the results you get if you, you know, really go down towards the path that you feel passionate.

Yeah.

Don't give up on your dreams.

Right?

Don't give up on your dreams.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And what's another reason for the book?

Because, you know, it looks at.

It's not like this is how you make it in the music business, because I can't really get behind any of that language and actually keep feeding the.

We're kind of, you know, sold this Cinderella story that, you know, you gotta slug it out until somebody with power discovers you and plucks you from the masses and elevates you to stardom and then you're rich and famous and all your problems are gone.

And that messaging is perpetuated through, through, you know, these big sort of talent discovery shows that we have.

And.

Yeah, great point.

And so it's a very disempowering type of messaging.

And so, you know, when you say interweaving your passion and going for it, part of the success of that is realigning your own vision for success and kind of stepping away from what you're told is success and waiting for somebody else to give you permission to live the life that you want for yourself.

And that's true of music, golf, Frisbee, whatever it may be.

Woodworking, you know, we can't wait for others to tell us it's okay to live the way we want to live.

Yes, yes, yes.

That's powerful.

That's huge.

Very powerful.

Yeah.

So how much of this comes into play like this sort of thinking, teaching comes into play in your coaching?

Is there a lot to do with mindset?

What does that look like?

All of it.

Okay.

Yeah, it's all my.

I mean, it's a combination of understanding the core principles of how any business works.

Because when you understand the core principles of business, you can be successful in any business.

And you know, my experience tells me that business is really just about people.

No matter what it is that you're selling, what product or service, it's always about people.

And the best way to understand people is to understand yourself.

So if you.

If you like.

Basically, the book sums up as.

To be successful in the business of music, you first need to be successful in the business of you.

So it's like, who are you?

What motivates you?

What's your why?

Why do you want to be in the music business?

Like, it's not like this is how you make it in the music business.

It's why do you want to be in the music business?

Like, what is it you're chasing?

And a lot of my coaching and the book is really a total extension of my coaching, is.

Is looking for, like, finding patterns in yourself where you're looking for validation.

So when we're looking for validation outside of ourselves, we're always at the mercy of other people to feel good about ourselves, but it should be the opposite, you know, we should look inside for validation.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, and what I find, what I have found, because I work with artists at all levels, like successful, signed unsigned hobbyists, and they all like the feedback I get from the type of coaching we do is that it's purposeful no matter where you're at, because it's about connection with self and it's about understanding the power of your mind and what you see.

You know, if you can see it, then you can get there.

So clarity and also just valuing what you create.

Because we live in a culture that.

That values things based on money and how much money it makes.

And success is defined by money and things and stuff, but it's temporary, it's not fulfilling, you know, so sort of realigning that feeling of just finding validation and the feeling of success within the process of creation itself, not from the result.

Yeah, yeah.

Geez.

We might have to pause just to let someone just let that sink in a little bit.

Soak it in.

Absolutely understandable gems.