I want to bring you back in.

I want to ask you one burning question.

You're a biologist.

I have two biologists here.

I have a burning question that has been asked recently.

I'm wondering if you can help out with.

I know that.

I know that this has.

It can't be answered by Supreme Court justices.

What is a woman?

Oh, you do not want me to.

Go down this road because sex determination and development.

I mean, Dr. Jeanson is probably more familiar with developmental biology than I am, but that's a really complicated question, especially when you consider the.

The complexities of human biology.

I.

Look, I. I actually do.

I talk in class about sex determination.

Chromosomal determinants, hormonal determinants, genetic determinants, what determines.

What determines sex.

I see.

That's our.

That.

There's no short.

There is no answer to that question that I could answer in the time.

That we have tonight.

Really?

Okay.

It is a really complicated question.

It is a really complicated question.

So it's not a question of chromosome X versus Y 100%?

No and no.

Ask me the question 12 different ways if you want, but you're going to get the same answer each time.

I don't think it's all that complex.

I would answer it very simply.

A woman is what God, who created the women, defines it as God.

God created her.

He gets to give the definition.

So it's a woman is what God calls a woman.

This is Apologetics Live to answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rapaport.

Well, we are Live Apologetics Live here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible.

Now on Apologetics Live.

This is a Ministry of Striving fraternity.

I am your host, Andrew Rapoport, and I can proudly say that I can answer any question that you have about God and the Bible.

Now, if you doubt that, well, here's what you do.

You go to apologeticslive.com, you scroll down to the duck icon, you click on that, participate with us, and ask me your most difficult question that you have about God in the Bible, because I can answer it.

You doubt that, will you come on in?

And what you're going to find is, is you just got to remember one thing.

I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

I didn't say it'd be satisfactory to you.

I just said I can give you an answer.

All right.

So we were supposed to have a guest.

He has not shown up, have not heard from him.

So I don't know.

We.

This May be a really interesting show.

I might have to wing it.

My two regular co hosts are not here, but there may be, we might have some other folks that may jump in.

So I do have someone backstage and I don't know how to, how best to introduce him in because I don't know, there's, it's, it could be problem problematic.

But I, I, I'll bring him in.

His name is Bobby Jones.

Bobby, how are you?

I am good.

How are you?

Good.

I am doing good.

So we, we're gonna do a show and it looks like our guest is gonna come in.

He just finished up doing his show.

He just said so.

Oh, good.

I, I, you know, I, how, how I'm gonna open up the.

I know how.

We know each other from the last conference.

I'm gonna let you introduce yourself to audience.

However, you might want to introduce yourself.

I would be called by most people as the Harbor Freight Keith Hosky.

Okay.

For folks who don't, Keith Fosky is a, a well, friend.

Could we say he's a friend of yours?

Well, we'll get to that.

Maybe.

But Keith, Keith is someone I know, a dear brother who I was at the recent, well, Jeffrey Rice's recent conference, which was road map to revival.

That is where we met Bobby.

And we are partners in crime.

Maybe we can get into explaining that one.

Folks, you'll, you'll enjoy that story if, if you, if you listen to Keith, you already know story, but Keith is known for doing very funny videos.

He's also happens to be an excellent preacher, but I think people know him more for his, his videos.

And he calls himself the Harbor Freight Doug Wilson.

So you call yourself the Harbor Freight Keith Fosky.

You want to explain why?

It's more like a watered down version.

You know, they find out I'm Keith Foskey's brother and they're expecting the same level.

But when you get it, when you get me, it's not the right size.

It's, you know, it's not as advertised.

So.

Yeah.

Are you saying you're a slimmed down version of Keith Fosky?

I didn't.

Oh, I might pull out.

I'll have to pull out Old Bill on that answer.

I cannot confirm nor deny those allegations.

So, yeah, I, I think that we're going to be in trouble.

I love it.

So, yeah.

You and I were partners in crime at that conference, weren't we?

Well, y, I will.

I was.

I mean, you didn't have a lot.

To do with it.

I ate it.

And Abetted Yeah, you.

You didn't have a lot to do with it.

But there was a running joke at the conference.

Greg.

More.

Greg Moore was introducing the speakers.

And with each one, it was a fun little introduction and then a serious one.

And when he got to the something about me, he talked about me being Jewish and stealing pennies out of penny loafers to which nobody got it.

And he.

He just didn'.

Audience.

They were too young to know what penny loafers were.

So for.

For any in the audience that doesn't know, a penny loafer is a type of shoe that you'd wear that they used to put pennies actually in the loafer.

Well, your brother Keith told us that he not only was wearing penny loafers, but he had pennies in them.

Well, that meant Greg and I came up with some fun.

And so while Keith was downstairs talking with some folks downstairs, I came up to where you and Keith were staying.

I knocked on the door.

You welcomed me in, and I just said, hey, you know where his penny loafers are?

And you kindly pointed them out.

In which I then, yes, nice and quietly stole two pennies.

I. I put the.

I put the.

The shoes back.

And Greg and I waited for the morning with a hope that he was going to wear those shoes.

And Greg was going to walk up to him at the conference and say, where are the pennies in your penny loafers?

But he didn't wear those shoes.

He didn't wear them?

No.

And so he saw Greg and I sitting and discussing.

He knew something was up.

And so he looks over to me and says, what did you do?

And all I did was reach in my pocket and I pulled out the two pennies and held them up.

You jerk.

I can't believe you did that.

And he proceeded to tell me that they're really hard to get in.

I said, they're really easy to get out.

He was like, that's because you're Jewish.

Well, that was.

The funny part is when he said.

And he took a picture of you handing him the pennies, and he was like, I can't even post this on Facebook.

You know, the only Jew at our conference stole the pennies out of my penny loafers.

He was afraid that would cause such a stir.

Yeah, I told you.

He's so worried that people will call him anti Semitic.

And I was like, you can say that.

I said it because it was funny.

So, yeah, that was great.

So what?

You know, anything you want.

You and I were talking.

We have a shared interest in apologetics and wanted to have you come in and join and, and so for folks who may be new, maybe you just saw the, the topic tonight is Charlie Kirk.

What's next?

We have someone that's going to be coming in and he's going to be talking about what he's doing next.

And so we are, you know, we're still waiting for him to come in, but you and I had some interest in apologetics.

And so what we do here, folks, is not only do apologetics.

If you see us debate with people that come in, we also teach it.

We try to explain.

So when people come in and ask questions, and this is a thing where anyone is allowed to come in, ask any question, right?

There's no, no questions, off limits.

This is kind of a virtual version of what Charlie Kirk has been doing, but we've probably been doing it longer.

But, you know, and, and so the, the goal here that we have is that we want to, we want to be able to have folks with questions have them answered.

That's the goal.

Yeah, I'm getting feedback from your mic.

Let's see.

So you might, you might have to mute when you're not talking.

No, you don't have to mute your camera.

I mean, that just makes my vision better.

But yeah, so, so what we, what we're going to do is until, basically until he comes in, I'm going to pull off the topics, some things for us to discuss.

Unless, until folks either come in or have questions here in the chat.

And if you want to chat, the best way to chat, by the way, is if you go to YouTube, the striving fraternity channel.

If you're watching on apologeticslive.com there's a, there's a link right there to the YouTube channel or to the video.

And, and you'd be able to, to watch and comment there.

That's the best ways place to comment.

So I do try to stack up questions that people have asked.

And so this is a question that someone had asked, looks up.

It's going to require looking up a Bible verse, but it's one Bobby, I think that your brother's used on you often.

It's, it's Matthew 7:21-23.

I'm sure you have it memorized.

I'm sure your brother has, has used that with you often.

I only, only have it memorized in the, in the Greek.

Yeah.

Okay, well then why don't you, why don't you give it to us in the Greek there, smarty pants?

I can.

It's, it's all Greek to me.

All right, so you said 7:23, 21 to 23.

Someone, someone was asking how this applies to false teachers.

So you, you want to read that, Bobby?

Yeah.

You have it in the English, of course.

Read it.

Okay.

This is coming from the esv.

Not everyone who says to me, lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven on that day, many will say to me, lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do mighty works in your name?

And then will I declare to them, I never knew you Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Okay, so this is one that the, the specific question is how is this apply to false teachers?

I do have, in one of my trainings, I actually have, I think it was Bill Johnson that, that was, I don't know if you can call it preaching through this passage, these, these verses.

And it's amazing that he couldn't see that this applied to him.

Right.

Which, which just tells you something about false teachers is they do not recognize when Scripture is condemning themselves, it seems, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

It's, it's something where this passage is talking specifically of people who claim that they are Christians and they are not.

Now specifically, the specific audience to this claim would have been the, the Jewish religious leaders of Jesus's day because they were in their self righteousness, feeling that they were able to claim that they had, they had a righteousness because they followed the laws they created.

Very conveniently that the, the rabbis create a law.

They're gonna, they're able to keep it.

So what we end up seeing is that it directly was speaking to them.

However, it does have further reaching references.

And, and I would say that it has references even to today.

Now, is it only to the Word of faith movement because it mentions these things about, you know, doing thing, you know, the, the miracle things that are mentioned here.

Right.

It says in verse 22, you know, many, many will say, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name and perform many miracles in your name?

Okay.

And so some think this is limited just to word of faith.

I would say it's not.

No, no.

Yeah.

I would say it was for any person professing to be a believer because we see it in musicians that have stepped away and renounced, you know, they made their money off of Christian music and then renounced Christ and renounced God through it.

But no, I wouldn't say that only pertains to just them Just the, the teachers we see today, the false ones, of course.

So you mentioned something I wanted to explore more, so I'll let you do it.

You said those who profess Christ, what is the difference between professing, making a profession of faith and having a possession of faith?

And I think this would be.

Yeah, and this is going to be really good for us to discuss because even with the situation with Charlie Kirk, let me just set the stage to broaden it for you.

We saw a memorial service where many were preaching the gospel, even Roman Catholics like J.D.

vance, and preaching what sounded like a biblical message.

And so as we think about that, we have to be aware that this passage does have a broader meaning that would continue even to people that were, well at that memorial service and proclaiming that they're going to see Charlie Kirk in heaven.

So, so what is the difference between profession and possession?

I would say profess possession.

Professing is what comes out of your mouth.

Possession is how you live your life, then the life of the believer because there will be fruits of that automatically.

You know, one thing is pointed out to me a long time ago.

We don't know, we never know who is actually saved.

And I don't usually refer to people as oh, he saved, you know, I just say they've made a profession of faith because that's all I know.

But then as we see them walk it out, I see the possession of it, the true heart changed, changing the heart of stone to flesh.

And all the things we see of the markings of a true believer will be shown in their life.

You know, I've been going through James, which can some people get, get think that he's talking against going against Paul, what Paul said about being saved by faith alone.

But no, he's just saying that once you're saved, this is, this is the things you'll see, you know, and I don't think it's really the actions necessarily what you're doing, it's your heart behind it.

I mean there's atheists out there who donate money to charity and who help the poor and help the hungry.

But is it done from faith?

Is it done with that heart that only God can give us?

So yeah.

And so to the person's question, how does this apply to false teachers?

Well, the way it applies, the same way it did in the first century to the Jewish leaders.

It's Christ saying to people that, yes, you may think you're going to heaven, you may think you have a self righteousness, you may even think, I mean, he's giving pretty extreme things, prophesying, casting out demons, doing miracles.

And they're saying they're doing them in the name of Christ.

But the difference is that Christ never knew them.

That's the difference with the passage.

So a false teacher is going to be one who is professing a salvation they don't possess.

So.

Right.

I hope that it helps.

Go ahead.

And what's their motive behind it?

Goes behind their motive behind it.

Yeah.

You know, the ones on TV is easy.

They're making money.

It's a business, you know.

But are they really wanting to see an unbeliever, someone who's not worshiping God?

And they should be.

Are they wanting to see that heart change so that God gets the worship that he deserves?

Or are they doing it to check off numbers on a box and to brag that, hey, I led a person to Christ last night.

We, we.

We have a pastor here in Jacksonville that was said.

He said that if you let me talk to someone long enough, I'll get them to make a decision for Christ.

And I was thinking, I was like, no, you'll say anything so that the person will say anything to shut you up.

That's what they're doing.

Well, they're right.

I mean, they could get anyone to make a decision.

But it isn't regeneration.

Right.

There's a big difference.

Or possession.

That's right.

It's back to that.

Yeah.

So.

So we have.

We have Chandler backstage.

So I want to bring him in.

Let me bring him in.

And Bobby, you may want to mute when you're not speaking just so we don't.

Chandler, welcome.

Welcome.

Thank you for having me.

All right.

And we may need to get.

There's.

I'm hearing some background noise from you.

So we'll do some tech support.

Just check the.

Check the settings.

If you go to the settings and audio, make sure you have echo cancellation auto gain in the background noise reduction on.

Okay.

All right.

And so let me.

While he's doing that, I'll explain how I got to know of Chandler and why we're gonna have him on.

So Chandler is a student at Liberty University.

Sorry, Bob Jones University.

And I got that wrong.

Those are.

That's a bad thing to get wrong.

But at Bob Jones, he's a, I believe, sophomore.

We're gonna.

I pretty sure sophomore.

But he actually is friends with someone who I used.

I was kind of go to church with.

But he now is there at Bob Jones.

So it's still a little bit.

There's still a little bit of noise we're picking up.

Are you using the mic off of a laptop?

I'm using the mic off the headphones.

Okay.

All right.

Yes.

So just when you're speaking, it sounds good, but when it's probably a condensing mic.

All right, so we had you on because you and I had a chat.

You know, mutual friend of ours, John told me about your show you're starting and why you're starting it.

And so I wanted to give you a chance to explain what you're trying to do and why and then.

And talk about basically a little bit about how, you know, what happened with the shooting of Charlie Kirk, how it affected you.

Yeah.

So I was having a conversation with a friend of mine after the shooting happened.

It was like three hours after it had happened, and I obviously heard the tragic news that he had passed.

And he looks at me and he says, well, who's going to kind of step up and fill that void?

Because a big figure like Charlie Kirk, his influence doesn't die.

And so I said, well, you have people on the right that aren't really Christian or not evangelical, aren't professing the gospel like Charlie Kirk was.

And I just said, I think that, you know, we should.

I think I should kind of do something and step up and try to continue the fight of Charlie Kirk and his legacy.

Because ultimately, what Charlie Kirk did was he wasn't merely a political figure.

I mean, he was openly preaching the gospel on these college campuses, and he was interacting in the public square with people, with young people specifically, and he was, you know, forcing them to think about eternal truths, about conservative politics, about, like, real political issues, but even speaking spiritual issues.

And I said, I don't.

I think that was so necessary and so needed in society that I'm willing to.

I was, you know, I felt compelled, felt motivated to go and continue to do the same thing, was just to fight for truth and to fight for what he started.

Yeah.

And so I do have up for those who are watching, those who are listening on the podcast, you'll just have to go and search.

But if you go to YouTube, the handle that you have for YouTube is Theore Chandlermaib, which is kind of like your name, huh?

Chandler Ma.

Yeah.

Funny how that is.

And so actually, you could just type in Chandler Mabe and you'll.

You'll be able to find the YouTube channel.

So.

And this is the thing.

So how were you following Charlie Kirk before he died?

Were you watching a lot of his programs?

I was.

Yeah.

I was obviously getting a Lot of his short form content.

So I would see a lot of his debates.

I would see.

I would see clips of him talking.

Actually, I worked on a congressional campaign and one of my candidate, Adam Morgan, was actually on his show.

So, yeah, I was following Charlie Kirk pretty heavily.

Now, were you looking at more from the political aspect or was it because you mentioned that he was always sharing the gospel?

Were you more interested in the religious aspect, or was it because of what he was doing politically?

So it started for me politically.

Obviously that was kind of the draw.

But then the more I interacted with him, the more I saw his content.

It was all it was, it was moving towards Christ.

If you look at his life, you know, he starts kind of in 2016.

He's not really talking a lot about politics or a lot about, like religion, and then he moves into the faith.

One show that I.

One episode he did, he went on the George Janko podcast and talked very openly about his faith.

And that was something that really left an impact on me was how open he was in his faith.

Okay, so why, Why'd that have an impact on you?

It showed me that you can have, that you can do politics and you don't have to hide your faith.

There are a lot of people that will use politics or that will use the faith.

They'll get into politics and they'll talk about Christianity, but they'll live a completely counter.

They'll live a life completely counter to the faith.

And it just kind of resonated with me that he's believing his faith and he's living it out and he's being able to be involved in politics.

Kind of like a Daniel figure, like a Nehemiah or like a Joseph, you know, because all throughout Scripture, you see examples of people that were.

That were political.

You know, it's one of the interesting things.

Nobody gets upset when a Nancy Pelosi or a Chuck Schumer or any of these Democrats use scripture and even argue that the scriptures promotes homosexuality, abortion, all kinds of things.

Or if they try to use it to say that they're.

They're a Christian and they start quoting the Bible, which is always nice when they actually get the quotation right, but that's kind of rare.

But then if, if you get someone who's conservative that says they're Christian and quotes the Bible, it's like, how dare they?

They're forcing their religion on us.

I think what you see is, there's a big difference, folks, is when you see the, the politicians use scripture and everyone knows they Don't.

They're not a Christian.

They're not religious.

They don't believe it.

No one cares.

But when you have someone that actually believes what they say and they're religious and a Christian, then all of a sudden it's.

It's, hey, you're shoving your religion in our face.

You're, you know.

Now would you say, you know, Chandler, would you say that you.

You think that Charlie Kirk was motivated by his religious beliefs more than his political beliefs?

Or let me word it this way, do you believe his.

His religious beliefs influenced his political beliefs?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, absolutely.

I don't think you.

I don't think you can come to the conclusions about politics that Charlie Kerr came to without religion.

I have a. I have a quote.

It's not.

It's not me, but I say it a lot.

Everything is ultimately theological.

So in politics, I think politics ultimately comes down to what you think about God, and that influences how you govern.

So if you believe that, that.

That God is, you know, chief creator of the universe and that you, you know, he is sovereign and that we're to submit to him and that human life has infinite value, that human life has value because we bear the image of God, then that's going to affect the way you govern.

You know, I'm anti abortion because I'm a Christian.

You know, I'm not anti abortion because I'm a conservative.

You know, my conservatism comes from my Christianity.

And I think that's the same way with Charlie Kirk.

One thing he said on an interview that I saw was somebody asked him, you know, when you die, what do you want to be known for?

He didn't say, oh, the conservative movement I've started.

He said, I want to be known for the courage I had in my faith.

So I think.

I think his chief, you know, pursuit in life was.

Was the.

Was the gospel and was Christ.

I don't think it really was.

Was political for him.

I don't think that was his highest ends.

Yeah, I would agree.

I think.

I think one of the things.

Charlie Kirk and Bobby, I'll be interested if you have any thoughts with this, but I think one of the things with Charlie Kirk is, I think he recognized the fact that the left had.

They wanted to change the country, and to change the country, they knew they had to change the culture, and they've changed the culture with a culture that doesn't stand for anything more, stands against, you know, Judeo Christian values.

And so it's really more what it stands against than what it stands for.

However, how do you change now that the culture has shifted to this insane culture where we don't even know what a boy and a girl are supposedly as those who listen to the intro, by the way, if you don't know, that intro was a biology professor at Rutgers Unit University that came in to challenge Dr. Jeanson, who works at Answers in Genesis on a book that he wrote called Traced.

And so that was.

That's the fun of this show.

Dr. Jeanson didn't know that he was going to have another PhD professor come in and try to debate him.

And, well, let's just say it this way, Dr. Jeanson handled himself quite, quite well, not being prepared for a debate.

But you, you heard in the intro, this is a PhD, PhD biologist, and he can't figure out what a boy and a girl are.

Yikes.

That's the culture.

And what, What Charlie Kirk, I think, realized was you, you need to.

You change the culture to change the country, but you can't change the culture without Christianity.

And I think Charlie Kirk, as a Christian knew, I think as he was trying to change the politics, I think he eventually, I think.

And I'll see Bobby, what you think?

I think he realized he needed to bring the Christianity into discussion, in the forefront to be able to see the culture change, because the only thing our culture is going to.

That's going to stand up to this culture is going to be the truth.

What do you think on that?

Yeah, I would definitely have to agree with that.

You know, the church I go to is called Set Free, and it's a ministry.

You don't go to your brother's church.

I mean, is there some family strife we need to know about?

We're gonna have to talk to Keith Fosky and find out why.

You know, maybe he threw.

Did Keith throw you out of his own church?

Is that it?

That's probably it, yeah.

I've been.

I've been excommunicated, unfortunately, from Sovereign Grace.

Probably too many movie references.

Chandler.

You know, here's the thing.

Bobby.

Bobby and his brother both grew up in the 80s watching movies and knowing every movie, small minutia detail of every movie that ever existed made in the 80s.

And I know nothing about any movies, like, at any time frame.

So the two of them just talk right over my head doing quotes.

And then Bobby, Bobby would just say something and.

And his brother Keith would go.

Andrew doesn't get that reference.

It's pop culture.

I, you know, hey, look, so true.

There's one advantage I have over you Bobby, I've shared the gospel.

I've shared the gospel with guys like Ray Liotta and only find out who he was afterwards.

Tony, I think his name was Rom.

He quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys some years ago.

Tony Romo.

Tony Romo.

Romo.

Romos.

I, you can see how pop culture literate I am.

I've gotten to share the gospel with people like this and, and they loved it.

You know why?

Because I had no clue who they were.

I mean, a three and a half hour flight with me sitting next to Tony Roma, I have no idea who he is.

I'm just sharing the gospel with him.

And at the end of the thing, I'm telling him, tony, you're gonna go to hell if you don't turn to Christ.

And at the end of the conversation he's like, hey, Andrew, thank you.

That's the best conversation I've had in a long time.

I had no clue who he was.

I wouldn't have known who he was.

I don't watch sports.

I used to watch Michael Jordan play, but that's how long ago it's been.

Well, I mean, it kind of shows you that the, the things of the world, you know, fame and riches and wealth is in some cases a punishment rather than a pleasure, you know.

Yeah.

Andrew from Australia here says Andrew, referring to this Andrew me.

Andrew is popular, culturally illiterate.

Yeah, he is.

I am so.

All right, so.

So the church, that's not your brother's church.

It is a church that we help guys that are going through, we say life problems.

Now most of those problems are drugs and alcohol, homelessness, jail, some of that stuff.

And they come in, it's a five month program and they come in and.

But that's what we're about.

We're about like you saying, getting to the heart of it.

We don't try to change their behaviors.

We're not a behavioral modification place.

We get to the heart of it.

Which back to what we were saying is Jesus introduced, you know, teaching about Christ, teaching them about that, let him hear the gospel.

And, and you're right, that's what Charlie was doing, was getting to the heart of it.

Not trying to change symptoms, but trying to change, fix what was the problem.

And that is the not being in Christ.

And so yeah, and I agree with him too about, you know, that it is, everything is theologically based.

Your, what your theology is.

And that's where the problem, that's where I think it breaks down, is that we think we're dealing with Republican, Democrat, that Charlie Would debate Republican against Democrat.

But what he's actually doing was.

Was debating between logic and emotional.

He was using a logical standpoint.

These people were coming from an emotional standpoint that this is how I feel.

It's, you know, it's a form of arrogance, too.

This is how I feel.

This is what makes me feel good.

That's also what the culture is like, you know, basically produced is.

It's all about your feelings.

It's not about the truth.

You know, the truth is subjective and relative.

It's all about just how you feel, feel, and that's the highest good.

So they're just debating that, you know, they're putting forth what society has told them is the pinnacle.

Pinnacle good, right?

Yep.

Yeah.

And I mean, this is what happens when you have a culture that is, well, postmodern, where there is no truth.

Right.

This, this is what I think Charlie Kirk did well, was to.

To present that.

You have all these people saying, you know, trying to argue there is no truth.

And what he do, he brought truth.

This is one of the things as.

As Christians, we can't do.

We can't back away from the truth.

So when someone comes to me and says, hey, put your Bible aside, why don't you argue?

Why don't you prove God exists and don't use the Bible?

Why.

Why would I give up the truth for any discussion?

If we're going to debate an issue of abortion, why would I give up the truth, the truth of God's word, the creator of the universe, the infinitely holy one, the one that has infinite knowledge, and give up what he says for what?

The words of man?

It makes no sense.

None.

A lot of people say that come from a level playing ground put inside the Bible.

You know, come at it.

You know, don't come at it with your preconceived notions.

But that's exactly what they're doing.

They're coming with preconceived notions that there isn't a God or whatever the argument is.

And so, yeah, there's no reason to.

It's like, you know, fight me, but, you know, put your hands behind your back.

It's like, that's not.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Well, I. I will say that I think if Bobby was to go up against his brother, his brother could put his hands behind his back and Bobby would still lose.

Don't let him fool you.

He's.

He's a big teddy bear.

Oh, I know he's a big teddy bear.

Okay.

For folks who do know who Keith is Keith Fosky.

Bobby, would it be fair to say that your brother is a rather big fella?

Yes, I think that'd be Gentle Giant.

Gentle Giant.

We.

We were at.

He and I were.

We were at.

Actually, I think you were with.

You were at the same restaurant that we went to that.

That barbecue place there in Tennessee.

So we.

We were there and we had this great waitress, and we.

I went around asking.

We all took turns trying to see.

She just nailed every one of us.

Like she.

If we asked her who's the oldest one here, she got it right.

So I figured I was going to get her.

And I said, there's.

There's three of us at the table that have black belts in a different martial art, but there's two of us that have more than two black belts in different martial arts.

Can you name them?

And she quickly pulled out Aaron Brewster, who folks who are regular here, you know, he has several black belts.

Three black belts.

And she looked around the table, and I figured she'd never kiss guess Keith, but she did, which shocked me because Keith is a rather large fella and not the type you'd think has three black belts in.

In different martial arts and trains and teaches it.

He just doesn't have the body type.

But he does.

He.

He does actually teach it.

And so, yeah, he does.

And so.

But it is.

It.

You know, it's like Chandler just said, they want.

The world wants you to give up the truth and then fight them, putting down the very sword of.

Of Christ that.

That we have.

That is the truth.

Why do that?

I mean, this is why, Chandler.

I don't know.

You know, I don't know.

With apologetics, you may not be familiar with the terms.

Are you familiar with the terms classical, presuppositional, and evidential apologies, apologetics?

I am not.

Okay.

All right, so it'd be unfair to ask which one you are.

Let me.

But you're.

Now, You're a sophomore there at Bob Jones, right?

Correct?

Yes, sir.

Are you going to be taking some apologetics classes?

Yes.

Yes.

All right, good.

Then this is.

This is going to be Apologetics 100, but getting you ready for 101.

Ready.

Okay, so there's three different major groups of apologetics and folks who want.

You can actually go back some about maybe.

Yeah, I want to say maybe nine months ago to a year ago on the show.

What we did is we.

We had people come in and.

And explain a different view of each of these and a fourth one being cumulative.

And so basically what you have is Evidential apologetics, most notably William Lane Craig, would be known for it.

And the idea there is to argue evidences.

You, you, if someone understands enough evidences, they would be able to come to the truth.

And evidential apologetics would be where you'd see someone who, like a William Lane Craig who would say, well, you could put the Bible aside.

I can argue for the existence of God without the Bible.

And one of the problems, I think, with arguing evidences is, well, they don't have an evidence problem.

The person you're speaking to has a spiritual problem problem.

They have a sin problem.

So arguing evidence.

Well, you know, if Chandler is a really good debater and he can argue some great evidences, and I go, wow, that's really good.

I never thought of that before.

And I start saying, you know, maybe I should be a Christian because Chandler argued really well.

And then I go and listen to AOC and then I realize Chandler was, was right.

No.

So someone else, because I.

Hey, did any of you guys see the Babylon B with the debate between Charlie Kirk and aoc?

Do you see that headline?

I didn't see it.

Yeah, AOC lost the debate to a cardboard cutout of Charlie Kirk.

And that's about right.

But, but see, if, if Chandler gives evidence and I go, and I go online and I see someone else and I go, well, that's better evidence.

Ultimately, I'm acting as the judge between these, the two camps of evidence.

Right, right.

However that you get into classical apologetics which says, you know what, there's some things that we can, we can use evidence to try to prove God exists, but we don't want to give up the Bible.

We want to look to what the Bible says.

And so the issue you have there is, and this probably most common, most well known classical apologist that we would think of is an RC Sproul.

And here what you're doing is seeing where it's a little bit of.

What I'm going to say is presuppositional and also evidential.

Okay.

But what I would be is presuppositional.

Presuppositional is that I don't give up the truth.

I start with two things I'm not giving up.

There's a, you know, God exists.

He has spoken.

Okay.

I'm not going to give that up.

So when someone says, you know, well, prove God exists, I don't need to.

Romans 1 says that they know God, God exists, they suppress that truth and unrighteousness.

Absolutely.

And that's what you saw Charlie Kirk do On college campuses where people would come up against him.

Now I'll wait till I see him in heaven and I can ask him whether he was presuppositional on earth because I know he's presuppositional today.

Yeah, thanks for getting the joke there, Bobby.

You left.

I got it.

Chandler will get that later on.

But the reality is that he argued often like a presuppositionalist.

He did not give up the scriptures when people would make arguments.

He didn't try to argue without scripture to bring them to the truth.

He started with the truth and assumed the truth is truth.

And this is a way we have to, to argue.

I think, I think that this is why Charlie Kirk was so good at what he did.

Well, there's many reasons.

I mean, he read a lot and he, he was very knowledgeable on a lot of different topics.

But, you know, and maybe Chandler is, you're, you're a young man, you're getting started in apologetics.

So, so I'm going to, I'm going to direct this to you as, as advice, okay?

Cuz I hate to admit it, I'm, I, I, I'm old enough to be your father.

Actually, my youngest is older than you.

Wow.

Wow, that's really bad.

I mean, I'm still just 25 because my wife is only 25.

So we've been married 31 years.

And if any of you have trouble figuring out how my bride is 25 and we've been married 35 years, you do not understand fuzzy math that they teach in school nowadays, okay?

But the thing is, is that when you're gonna go, and as you get on to, maybe you go to other college campuses or you're gonna go onto a YouTube channel, you're gonna be challenged, okay?

The thing you don't want to do is, is say, well, let's walk away from the truth and argue from a position of neutrality.

Because a presuppositional view would say there is no neutrality.

The person that you're arguing against when you go to a college campus, when Charlie Kirk was being challenged, say on the issue of abortion, he can't meet someone on neutral ground by giving up the truth that they both know is true.

See, God has put in the heart of man the knowledge of him.

This is Romans, chapter one.

If folks, I'm going to turn there because it would be good to look at what Scripture says, but this is Romans 1, verse 18.

And I know, Bobby, you used to, that, you know that, that reformed elect, standard version, but amen.

Yeah.

I'll use.

I got the New American Standard Bible here, so.

But I thought she used the message Bible.

I'm sorry.

No, no, I didn't get that message.

Thank you.

Okay.

So this is what, this is what the Bible says.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who do what.

Who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Because what is known about God is evident where it's evident within them.

For God made it evident to them.

So, and I should go on, how long has that been?

He says, for since the creation of the world.

Okay, so what you see here is that when we go out as Christians, when, when we go out and we're going to.

Chris Huff.

Chris Huff has.

Since I said yours is the elect Standard Bible, he said the New American Standard stands for the non Arminian Standard Bible.

And I guess he's saying that the LSB is the Lord's standard Bible.

Oh, that's funny.

All right, so.

So what you have is the fact that when we go out.

So Chandler, when you go out and you start challenging people and they're gonna, they're gonna try to argue, hey, put the Bible aside.

Let's, let's agree.

Let.

Let's come to terms on whatever the topic is.

Never do that.

Because what we have to know going into this is that when we're talking with them, they already know God exists and they're suppressing that truth and unrighteousness.

So knowing that, knowing that they are suppressing that, the last thing we should do is to turn and say, oh, well, let me, let me give in to that.

Let me work with you on that.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, you know, going from Romans 1, Paul says, for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.

It is the power of God unto salvation.

So I was at UNC Wilmington.

Me and a friend of mine, we were at UNC Wilmington Tuesday debating.

And you know, people come up and say, well, where do you get your beliefs from?

I always start with Christ.

My beliefs come first from Christ, from the church, from the teachings of Scripture.

And then I, you know, look to certain, you know, political philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas or Sa Cicero, Augustine, Aristotle, Seneca, people like that.

But I always start with Christ.

And I don't let.

One thing I try not to let people do is define a non believer, define what a Christian should be.

And I see a lot of people come up and say, well, you, as a non Christian, you don't get to Tell me what a Christian should be.

Scripture tells me what I should do.

Christ tells me what I should do.

You don't get to tell me that.

So, so I never seed the ground of, oh, well, you're not a Christian.

So therefore I'm going to put my faith away.

No, I'm not ashamed of the gospel.

This is what we believe.

This is why I believe it.

Because ultimately, if I'm going to come at it from like a William Lane Craig, and I'm familiar with some of his works, you know, I think he does a good job intellectually defending the faith, but it's got to be deeper than, you know, you know, conversion is not just a head thing.

It has to be a heart thing.

It has to truly transform you beyond the argument.

And so I always start, you know, I am a Christian.

I believe these things.

These things come from the eternal scriptures, the truth.

And that's what, that's what I hold to.

I don't, I don't hold to a watered down conservatism.

One of the things that I talked to my friend about on the drive from Wilmington back was the biggest threat to the conservative movement is going to be a conservative movement without Christ.

Because without Christ, ultimately what are you going to conserve?

What truth do you have to conserve without Christ?

So ultimately everything has to be rooted in Christ, centered around him.

And you know, I'm not, I'm not hiding my faith at all.

I don't, I don't hide any punches.

I'm a Christian, I'm very proud of it.

And that, that is the argument that a presuppositionalist would make.

So welcome to the family.

But because like you think about it, we know something they don't.

Right?

There's several things.

And I can walk up to anybody and say this, there's several things I know about any unbeliever.

They have broken God's law.

They know God exists and they're suppressing that truth and unrighteousness.

So when they tell me, well, I don't believe that, I just turn and go, well, that's your suppression right there.

I say, you know, your, your lack of belief is not, it doesn't change the truth.

You know, truth isn't determined by what you believe or what you don't believe.

You know, you can close your eyes and say, the sun exists, the sun is still shining, the evidence is still apparent for God.

You still know him in your heart.

Yeah, and, and the thing is, is that, okay, well, hold on.

We got Andy from Andrew from Australia, Says he's going to have to depart soon.

So I gotta, I gotta just put this up here because we're talking about AOC earlier and he said who would ever listen to aoc?

But, but he said this about aoc.

Someone was asking who's aoc?

So he was, he said it.

No.

Remember, he's in Australia and knows who AOC is, folks.

He says she's very evil and afraid of a garbage disposal unit in her kitchen sink.

Thank you, Andrew.

I remember that video.

Video.

When she first got into office, she did this thing where she was like, she was pretending like she had.

Whoop.

Oh, my light just collapsed.

What do you know?

That's really funny.

Never know what happens on a live show.

She was doing, she was doing this thing where she, she had said that she, like she got this apartment in Washington and she, she had this thing, she didn't know what it was, was.

And she flipped a switch and this sound was coming out.

She thought it was like a monster or something in the sink.

She didn't know what a garbage disposal was.

Okay?

AOC is a very gifted and talented politician.

Okay?

So Andrew, if you don't know, and you probably do because you obviously are up more on a lot of our politics than most Americans, AOC grew up in a home that I think was like a three million dollar home.

That's not the poverty.

She pretends like she just, oh, she had to quit college to go take care of her mother.

Like, you know, she had to work as a bartender to help her mother out because they were so poor.

Yeah.

In your three million dollar home, like.

Yeah, she was, she was, if she was middle class, she was the upper part of middle class.

Okay?

She, I'm sure knew what a garbage disposal was.

But she pretends, she pretends for her audience.

Okay?

And Chandler, as you go on to college campuses and you try to proclaim the truth, you're going to see people like in AOC that want to pretend.

They're going to pretend that there's someone that's intelligent and knowledgeable and they have all the facts on things.

And you, the, the one thing I would bestow upon you is to remember something.

You do not have to have all the answers.

Okay?

Charlie Kirk didn't have all the answers.

I mean, you see his early stuff to later stuff and you'll see that yes, he, he had, you know, he got better.

Why?

Because he read more.

Right?

I mean the early days, Charlie Kirk would go out to a college campus and talk about.

Okay, let's discuss The Second Amendment, let's discuss abortion, whatever the topic may be.

Homosexuality.

Why did he do that?

Because what he was doing by going out and speaking about the Second Amendment over and over and over again, he was.

He was fine tuning the tools in his tool chest.

And so what he was doing every time was getting better arguments and reading a bunch of stuff and putting things out and seeing, okay, did people understand that?

Did I go over their head?

Do I have to make.

Bring this down a little bit?

And so what he was doing is fine tuning each of his arguments to where, when you see him later in life, he could go out and just, okay, open it, open air, anything you want.

Let's deal with it.

And be able to answer any of the challenges.

Why?

Because each of those individual arguments were already honed and placed into the toolbox.

And so, you know, Chandler, my advice to you is don't try to learn everything at all at once.

When you're going to do apologetics piecemeal it, get really good at one and move on to the next.

That doesn't mean you have to be only focused on one issue, but get to where you have a way of answering, answering, because there's really only a handful of challenges that we get on the streets.

And so get good at answering one and then the next, and then the next and the next.

And then when you're in your 30s or 40s or, well, should I admit, 50s, you know, people ask me all the time when they see me out on the streets and they, they go, well, I could never do.

Do what you do.

And I'll ask why?

Well, I just wouldn't be able to answer all those questions that, that you, you dealt with.

And my answer is, I couldn't have done that 30 or 40 years ago, but I've been doing it long enough, having one after another after another after another, that I have gotten better.

And, you know Chris Huff of the everyday podcast, Patriot Podcast, which he's also.

The Theology Matters podcast.

We just.

I guess it doesn't matter anymore because.

Hey, Chris, are you recording anymore on that one?

Just saying, you know, that we'll get.

We'll have to get Chris in here.

But Chris said he would.

Speaking of Charlie Kirk, right.

He would seek out mentors from experts in some topics he was asked to about when he didn't know the answer.

He was always a student while giving the.

While never giving up the truth.

And that's, that's the thing you want to do, okay?

You want to find people that are experts in different areas that can, can train you up quicker, you know, so that you, you might be able to, to answer things quick.

Quicker than me who just would be challenged, went to the Bible, do some research and come back out the next week.

Right?

Get good mentors who can, can help you in answering the challenges.

Get that.

You know, a friend of mine, Mark Spence, what he, what he would do is he had little cheat sheets, he had little three by five cards that he had in his Bible.

And then he ended up up getting a Bible that he could write all his notes in and he would, he'd have that.

So when people would ask him something, he would just flip to, to that and read what his argument was because he already knew.

Oh, I've been asked this before.

Okay, now you have the advantage of a phone where you could just put things and organize it better.

Okay.

Technology has improved since Mark and Meise day, but do that.

Find, find people who can answer.

If you get a challenge, find someone who can an who is really good in that field to help you with the answer.

Learn from them.

Because Charlie Kirk was always a student.

The people who I know who personally knew him have always told me that he was a, A for voracious reader, but a student at heart.

He always wanted to learn.

Now I, I never met him.

I never, I don't know him personally.

Brian Simmons gives a resource for you as well.

It's the evidence Bible from Living Waters.

He says it has wonderful outreach tips and it does.

And that's from Ray Comfort, by the way.

Ray Comfort today.

If you, if you didn't know, Ray Comfort was out with Turning Point USA there in California and he was doing the open air there.

And so I, I knew that was coming up because Ray sent that to, to, to us.

And so, yeah, so that, that's really neat that he was able to do that.

But you know, someone like Ray Comfort, people go, oh, I can't do what Ray does.

Ray's been doing it since the day of Noah.

I mean, he's got some years under his belt.

You know, it's, you know, I know he talks funny and all, but it.

Why are you laughing at that, Bobby?

Well, I just think it's ironic and a person from New Jersey talking about people funny.

See, I'm from, I'm from the south where everybody talks normal, so.

Exactly.

We all know how to speak down there.

Yes.

Yeah, well, you know, you're, you're, you're in the, the south where unlike Jersey, where, where you could probably like conceal carry but not have to have One of these.

Oh, no, we don't have to conceal anymore.

We have carry.

Constitutional carry.

Yeah, just got passed this.

This is, this is one of the, the burners.

Burners.

So it has the, the.

The paintballs or the pepper balls.

I haven't used it yet.

I just got it.

I can.

It's.

It's one of the few things you can carry in.

In New Jersey, land of the free.

Yeah.

It's cute, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, we may have to start getting something like that.

I know a person who's also doing a debate or going to college campus and debating like We Are the Fearless Tour.

I don't know if you've seen those guys.

One of them, he just got.

One of the gentlemen, he just got attacked last night.

I think it was either Georgetown or the University of Maryland.

He was some.

He was sitting in a chair and some lady, like, took his hat and like, pushed him down.

And so, I mean, it's, you know, it's violent.

It's starting to get, you know, why.

Here's what my thinking is, Chandler.

I think what it is is that there, There being becomes a time where the left will come up with things that sound good and they get a bunch of people to follow it.

And then eventually you get someone like a Charlie Kirk who stands up and says the truth, and people start going, wait a minute, that makes way more sense.

There's actually reasons for conservative views and they start to follow that.

And when the left can't, they.

They don't actually try to, you know, discuss things in the realm of open discussion and the free exchange of ideas because their ideas can't stand up to the truth.

And so because their ideas can't stand up to truth, what ends up happening is they want to silence.

Well, for the first stage is belittle.

And, and the atheists, you know, have been doing that for now, decades and about, you know, 10, 15 years ago, thanks to the wonderful, wonderful president Barack Obama.

Why are you laughing, Bobby?

You don't think he's wonderful?

I think we're all laughing on that one.

Yeah.

No, but he was the most.

I, I had two daughters in high school when he was president and I was worried that they were boys were going to be able to come in their bathroom, you know, and luckily they went to school in Waycross, Georgia, and it wasn't happening.

So.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, there's a lot of.

Don't get me started.

Well, yeah, I have reasons to say that I think Barack Obama was.

Was the worst president ever.

But the, the thing is, when people, when people couldn't.

When, when you have people that are just want you to, they want to gaslight you and you don't fall for it, what ends up happening is they want to, they want to mock you.

And when the mocking doesn't work, what ends up happening next is they want to censor.

And when the censoring doesn't work well, they resort to what we saw with Charlie Kirk murder, because that's the ultimate silencing.

Right.

And so that.

Are they your character too?

You know, sometimes they'll go after your character and they'll, they'll say, you know, you're a criminal or you did this or you did that.

I think they've done that to like, somebody like Trump obviously doesn't have the character of Charlie Kirk.

But, you know, they say he, like, did all these terrible things and he's committed 7,000 felonies and he should be thrown in prison for 100 million year.

I mean, like him or not, I don't, I don't think he's as bad as the left has said he is.

Now this is interesting.

Melissa says if Obama was the worst, then Biden was second.

Well, see, see, let me, Michelle, Melissa, let me give you some things here.

Now, as, as these two brothers just mentioned, they now live in a constitutional carriage state.

Right.

Okay.

So when Joe Biden entered into office of president, there were only two states in the union that were constitutional carry.

When he left, there were 22.

You see, Biden actually did good.

Not because he wanted to.

He gave us, he gave us a Donald Trump.

Trump as president that no longer was trying to work, you know, play the game and toe the line.

You know, he now knows.

Hey, they're, they're going for blood.

Okay, I'm going for blood.

They opened the can of worms, right.

He, he said he would, you know, throw Hillary in jail, but when he got in office is like, well, you know, the office of the president should be respected.

We shouldn't go do things like that.

And then they went and did it to him, you see.

So there, see, there's benefits to the Joe Biden presidency.

It just wasn't what Joe Biden expected.

Right.

Because what he actually did was he dropped the veil so that now everyone can see what the game is.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, you know, it's been a little bit Chandler since I've been in college.

Just, just a couple of years.

And unlike Bobby, who.

It's been, you know, decades.

Yeah.

When I was in college, rainbows were in black and white, so.

Yeah.

All right, we know Chandler wants it.

Did you, when you first grew up, Bobby, did you have a black and white TV or color?

We had color.

Did you?

Okay, I remember.

I remember black and white.

Only in the living room.

Yes.

Well, that's the only place you had a tv, but, yeah.

Yeah, I remember when my dad brought home a.

The first color tv.

And I remember seeing the, like, four guys carry it in, because that's what it took to.

I mean, you didn't have to crane it in.

You were able to carry it.

Yeah, you needed four guys to carry it, but, yeah, they.

They carried it.

So when you're on college campuses, do you find that it is an area, a realm, where you see fair and open exchange of ideas?

What do you think from the university perspective or from the student perspective?

Well, both.

How about that?

Sure.

So we go down to UNC Wilmington Tuesday, and they have designated free speech areas, which is areas where you're supposed to be able to come and speak freely regardless of your status as a student or regardless of.

You're supposed to be able to, you know, go there.

This is where you can set up a table and debate.

And so as soon as we.

As soon as we get to the university, we get set up in the free speech square.

You know, two public safety officers come over and say, hey, do you have a permit?

When we go, we're in the free speech zone.

We shouldn't have to have a permit.

And they go, no, you need a permit.

The free speech zone is no longer free.

It's charged.

You have to pay for it now, essentially.

So from a university perspective, obviously, there's a lot of pushback when outsiders come on campus and just want to use our First Amendment right.

And then from a student perspective, when we actually engage in conversation, I've seen, and I'm very thankful for this.

Most people have actually come in, in pretty good faith.

There are a couple people that are just, you know, run by and hurl an expletive at you.

But most people actually want to debate and actually want to.

Want to.

Want to at least figure out what we believe.

And, you know, they want to tell us what they believe, and we're able to kind of work through and establish some common ground.

I will say the.

The transgender people are the most, like, hateful.

I mean, we interacted with a couple of those Tuesday, and they're just.

They come up so aggressive and, like, so angry, and it's like, what are you doing here?

Why are you here?

You're Just trying to provoke us.

And it's like, no, I'm just trying to have a conversation.

I'm not trying to do anything.

I'm not, you know, targeting you.

I'm not attacking you.

And.

But they just come up and, like, run to the front of the line with, with, you know, fighting hands, basically.

Okay, so I'm going to tell you why that is.

But, but first, so here's what you do to the university.

When the university tells you that you don't have the freedom of speech.

Ask them if they receive federal funds for Title nine.

And when they say they do, inform them that they're violating their Title nine.

And if they continue, you'll have a lawsuit to take away their federal funds.

And with the trust, the Trump administration, that might actually mean something.

I've actually learned that from a university official.

Wow.

When, when they brought me in, me and my friends were, were on a public campus and we were doing open air, and so we didn't.

We don't go in to ask where the public's, you know, where the free speech area is.

If it's public campus.

The whole thing is free speech.

Exactly.

So we just find a place where there's students and start proclaiming the gospel.

And, you know, an officer took us in and, you can't do this.

And we explained we can.

And he brought us into the administration.

And it was the administrator that said, you know, to the officer, we accept federal, federal funding under Title 9.

We can't stop them or military or anyone else from.

From doing that.

And he was like.

I was like, ooh, that's where you.

You put that tool in the toolbox and go, good to know.

Now, the reason that the transgenders are probably the ones most against what you're saying, if you're speaking the gospel, is because they have been their whole.

The, the majority reason why so many transgenders are transgender nowadays that haven't been raised to be transgender.

I mean, that.

Because most, a lot of transgenders are transgender because their parents want to claim they have a transgender child.

In other words, it's basically.

Say again?

I mean, it's like it's kind of grooming, essentially.

You know, you have a three year old transgender in Hollywood, everybody's got a transgender son or daughter or something.

It's very sick.

It's like it's contagious out there.

Yeah, Yeah.

I mean, somehow they're just born this way, but it's only within certain families.

Amazing.

Exactly.

Hollywood elites, all them, 99% are transgender.

And, you know, everybody Else, I don't know.

I guess they haven't.

We haven't caught on yet.

Yeah.

So what you end up seeing is this, is that if you ask them this question, just when they get real aggressive, just say, hey, tell me something.

What church did you grow up in?

This.

Now, years ago, before Barack Obama, I used to do this with the hardcore atheist.

The atheist that gets in my face and starts arguing with me.

I would.

And I've asked this of thousands, thousands of atheists, and only one did I not have the answer right.

Say, hey, what church did you grow up in?

And they always grew up in a church.

Yeah, they all.

They all do.

It's not that they don't know God, it's that they hate him.

Exactly.

And what it is, is the reason they're transgender is the same reason they used to be atheist.

Because they're going as far away.

They're going as far opposite to what they think, how they're going to hurt their parents or show their.

That their.

Their rebellion.

And who are they really hurting?

You know, I. I knew one young lady.

Her.

Her father was an apologist, and she ran away, you know, basically decided she was going to get into pornography and.

And all kinds of wickedness.

And, you know, I said to her, so you really don't like your dad?

No, you know, I can't stand him.

I said, so you've redefined your entire life by him, huh?

And she's like, what do you mean?

I said, so you're living this by bisexual pornographic lifestyle because you want to hurt your father.

So you've made your whole life's identity your dad?

Yeah, that's.

I mean, that's basically.

Somebody said, you know, that's basically what liberalism is.

It's kind of, you know, a rejection of the father.

You know, I'm going to go out here and do the exact opposite of what my family taught me.

And just because I'm mad at him.

Yeah.

Because I'm trying to.

What was that passage, Bobby, we just looked at, where in Romans it said they.

They suppress the truth?

In Romans 1:18.

Yeah.

In unrighteousness.

Right.

Crazy how that is.

It's like they're acting out exactly what the Bible says.

Wow.

Funny how that is.

All right, so before we go on, because I have some questions for you, Chandler, but before we go on, we do have to give a word to our sponsors.

Otherwise, well, they just don't make their money and they don't keep supporting us.

So now would be a great time to get yourself on my Pillow because, well, you know Bobby, when he goes to listen to his brother preach, he likes to get a good nap in.

And so you, you know, I, I saw you at the conference.

I know you wanted to have on my pillow to, to, to rest your head while your brother was preaching.

I get it.

You, I know you couldn't do that with me because I was just too loud and boisterous.

I know that was to keep you from falling asleep.

But if you want to get yourself a great night's sleep, let me, let me not just encourage you to get a great my pillow.

But they got this 3in mattress topper.

It's like getting a brand new bed.

That thing is so comfortable.

I, I have, that has been something I've loved is that 3 inch mattress topper.

So that has been like we had a guest on once on my rapper podcast that told me he, he was, he ended up getting just the mattress topper because he couldn't afford a new bed.

And it was like getting a brand new bed.

That thing is, is really, if you, if you want to get a great night's sleep, I encourage you to get the mattress topper.

But they have, they have towels, they got bed sheets, they got robes.

I'm wearing their slippers right now.

And so they got a lot of products out there.

My pillow.

If you use the promo code SFE you get great discounts and you also let them know, you know that you heard about them through us.

So go get to my, go to mypillow.com use the promo code, promo code sfe they're running some great discounts right now because well, they did have a big order that you know is as the left likes to try to cancel my pillow.

They've had some people that still don't like them.

So not only could you be doing that, but you could be helping support a great patriot.

Another thing you should do and as this, I really think that Chandler should do this when as he's young is to get a good Bible software because it's going to help in your study of God's word.

And so if you go to logos.comsf that stands for Striving for Eternity.

Logos.comsf what you'll, you'll get there is you'll be able to get great discounts and great software.

I have logos.

I've used it for.

Well, if I give this how long I've used it, it's longer, it's older than my wife because she's only 25.

And so I basically been Using that Software since about 1994.

So just a little while now.

And so Chandler's like, dude, I probably was.

Were you even born in 1994?

No, I was born in 2004.

So you got me beat by a decade.

Wow.

Okay.

Thanks.

Guest makes the post feel like an old man.

It's all right.

My youngest is older than he is too.

Yeah.

You know, when, when I did Jiu jitsu, the only thing that we like.

I just love Jiu Jitsu.

I, I enjoy rolling.

But when, when someone in the gym would call me an old man, I, I did not care what belt they were.

They were tapping as a white belt.

I tapped out a, a purple belt because he called me old.

It was set up obviously, because professor, the professor was like, hey, call preacher over there old.

And the guy did it and it was like, okay, it's on now.

I, I never mind.

Any other time.

Yeah, so, but, but yeah, if you want to get some great software and look, the Logos Bible software, now it had a reputation being really expensive, but now you could get them.

If you're going to start out, you can get it with a subscription base and when you get it with the subscription, you can get it for.

We, we actually check their lowest.

If you get two years pay, pay it once for two years.

It comes out to like 13amonth.

So there are ways to save on it.

It's cheaper than a Starbucks coffee.

And why would you want to have Starbucks anyway?

I'm just saying.

So.

So yeah, so go get some Lagos bible software@lagos.com Sfe I should give a.

A plug for.

For our two.

Two different plunges you can get.

I know.

Chandler, do you know what a cold plunge is?

Yes.

Yes.

Have you ever done one?

I have.

Yeah, you have.

I like yours.

Ready?

What do you think?

You enjoy it?

It's.

You hated it, didn't you?

I didn't.

Well, I think the goal is kind of to hate it.

But you like the benefit of it afterwards.

Exactly.

See, it's.

It's the thing that I look forward to all day until I have to get into my cold plunge.

But if you want to get yourself a good plunge, we do have two options for you.

The one that I have is from the company plunge.

They're a little bit more expensive, but I, I just thought it was a little bit better made.

But you can go to strivingforturnity.orgplunge that's striving for eternity.orgplunge.

they both have plunges and saunas now.

They just came out with their new all in one plunge.

And they, they're offering $3,000 off along with some other gifts that they have that you can get.

Then you go, well, 3,000 off, how much is it?

Well, it's, it's a lot.

They, they are.

I didn't get the all in one because, yeah, it's a lot, but I got the cheaper one, the other option.

And they have saunas and things like that because heat therapy is, is very good as well.

In fact, if you're, if you're into health and folks, you know, Chandler, you're young, you want to prepare for a career.

You want to have preparation for a 401k in retirement, don't you?

Yes.

Okay, so here's the thing.

You talk to any financial advisor, they're going to tell you the number one thing you have to save for is health insurance your.

Or for health care.

Okay?

If you start at your age taking care of your health, your money is going to last a lot longer, right?

Because if you keep yourself healthy now, not like at my age when I started, but heat therapy, if you're doing saunas on a regular basis, you could reduce the chance of cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, Alzheimer's, depression by over 60%.

That's a big number.

Okay?

And so they got good saunas that you can get at either two companies I'm going to mention.

Cold therapy is great for getting mitochondria in the cells, reducing inflammation, helping with reducing insulin resistance.

And it wakes you up more than a cup of coffee.

A cup of coffee is going to keep you awake for maybe 45 minutes to, you know, 90 minutes.

A cold plunge is going to keep you alert for the next three to four hours.

Okay?

It sucks, I admit it.

But if you want a cheaper solution, you go to strivingforaternity.org pod pod.

And it is the pod company.

We have a setup with them as well, and you can get discounts with them.

And we get a little bit back from them and they will, they will get you a little bit cheaper.

I, It's.

I am testing out their new sauna.

They, they sent me a second one because the first one was the prototype, but it's supposed to be able to get up to 185 degrees in 15 minutes.

So I was supposed to set that up today.

We'll, I'll have it set up hopefully for next week and we'll see how that, that is.

And so those are some things that, oh, oh, I'm in trouble now because Brian Simmons says, let's Have a rematch soon.

Brother Brian.

Brian's the guy that got me training at the gym that I trained at for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

And Brian is.

Well, okay.

Would it be fair to say Brian.

Brian is known worldwide?

Yes, it actually would be in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu circles.

He is a.

He's very well known.

Master promoter ran grappler's quest for years.

That was probably the biggest before UFC was known.

So I have rolled with him.

I have tapped to him.

He knew not to call you old, though, because.

Yeah, he didn't call me old because he's about my age.

He's only a few years younger than me, so.

But yeah.

Yes, we.

We should get Brian.

Brian, sometime.

You got to come in here and tell the story of how.

How you got saved.

All right.

You got to come in.

That's a fun story is when he tells it, it's fun.

So.

Okay, so, Chandler, you wanted to start a YouTube channel.

You want to start going on college campuses.

What is.

What's your goal with.

You talked about how Charlie.

Charlie Kirk's murder motivated you.

You realized that others, someone like yourself, needed to step up.

What's your goal?

What do you.

What are you.

You looking to be able to do?

I want to essentially change American culture and return it back to Christianity.

I want Christianity to become the predominant religious belief in this country.

I want it to become the thing that girds the rest of our civilization, our society.

I want Christ to become prevalent in society again and to be known.

And so I want to change the culture and have us go back to more of a classical understanding of the way society should function.

Charlie Kirk, he had a line.

He said.

He said, the most important thing is the kingdom.

And he said, the second most important, or.

He said, the most important thing is the kingdom of God and the ability to win souls.

And he said, the second most important thing is being.

Is being able to make sure you can do the first.

And so, you know, I read a passage like First Timothy, chapter two, which talks about, like, you pray for your leaders in order that you may live a peaceful life in order that you may be able to win them over to Christ.

And so my goal is obviously just to continue having Christ be the center of the country, the center of our conservative movement, and to have, you know, just.

Just to kind of have Christianity and conservative politics to be at the forefront of the.

The.

The public square.

You know, what Charlie Kirk did so well was he took, like, he took.

He would just go on campuses and he would record it, and he would cut it up into short form content and he would post it and people would watch.

I mean, he got billions of views on TikTok.

He got billions of views on social media.

You know, people really watched his stuff.

And that made such a tremendous impact.

I mean, I don't know if you've looked at some of the statistics, but, you know, people in my age are very thirsty for the truth.

They're very hungry for God.

And I think a lot of that comes from Charlie Kirk going out there and debating with these kids and showing them, hey, atheism is wrong.

Hey, there is a God.

Hey, you are accountable to him.

Hey, there is a conservative.

There's a reason behind conservatism.

We're not just a bunch of kooks.

And so I would, that's my, that's my goal is kind of just to continue what he was doing and try to, try to, you know, following his shadow.

So essentially, you want to make America Christian again.

Yeah, there we go.

I had to go put my hat on for that.

Yes, that is exactly what I want to do.

And the thing is that, you know, I don't think that Christian, that, that America is going to return to its, really the roots of what, how it, of its foundation without recognizing Christ.

Right.

Would you agree with that?

I mean.

Oh, no, I mean, we, we can't go.

You can't, you can't do anything apart from Christ.

I mean, you have to, you can't really know what you believe.

You can't accurately and honestly understand your country without understanding the importance of Christianity in the country.

You can't understand the west apart from Christianity.

You know, it's, it's impossible to do.

You're, you're like, you're cutting your arm off.

If you're trying to explain to me Western history without, without Christianity, it's impossible.

The two are inseparable to me.

So, so you, you go out into a college campus and you know, people are going to challenge you.

Are you prepared for the attacks, the verbal abuse they're going to give?

Maybe they're going to throw a frozen subway sandwich at you, as may have happened with one of my friends while we were doing open air.

You know, are you, are you prepared for that?

You know, Christ, he says that nobody builds a tower without counting the cost.

And so, you know, me and my friend, my partner that I do the debate with, Jackson Heberlin, we've, we've definitely counted the cost.

And I, I think this is, is necessary.

I, I look at life and I don't think life is something where you just, you know, live and breathe and, you know, you occupy space.

I think life is more than just, you know, physical existence.

It's.

It's about sacrifice.

It's about service.

It's about devoting yourself to something greater than yourself.

It's about, about devoting yourself to Christ.

And so I'm not, I'm not afraid of, you know, getting a Subway sandwich thrown at me.

I'm afraid of never having stood up and fought for something.

That's what, that's what scares me more than anything is not the fact that I might get attacked or even killed, God forbid.

It's the fact that I never found something that I was willing to die for.

Yeah, and what you do, folks, I'll just tell you what you do.

When someone throws a Subway sandwich at you, what you do is you catch it and then you thank them.

Because this is what my friend Mike Stockwell did.

He caught it midair and said, hey, thanks, I'm hungry.

Like, what does that do?

What that does is it's funny, it's humorous, it gets the crowd on your side.

You look at a Charlie Kirk, that's what he would do.

Jesse, by the way, is saying, well said, young man.

So I should, I should say again, if you guys want to go and follow, subscribe to his YouTube channel, just search for Chandler Mabe.

M A B E is the last name, but Chandler Mabe, his channel is the underscore.

Chandler Underscore Mabe.

So go check that out if you want to go and, and see what the content he's going to be putting out.

He's just starting out.

So if everyone would go and follow quickly, that would help him YouTube the way that their algorithm works, the more people that follow, the better he's going to be able to, to monetize, to be able to get it promoted, to be able to share it, be able to, you know, they have all kinds of things where you have to get to certain levels before they allow you to do certain things.

So if everyone goes out, I know for the, you know, the thousands that are going to be listening on podcast later, I'm going to encourage you guys to go and check out the channel, go and follow it and so that you could see what content he's.

He's putting out.

He's just getting started.

So if you do think that he, that he's a young man who is well spoken, go and check out the work he's doing.

So want to give him a shout out for that because that's one of the things that I, you know, I saw his first episode, Our friend, our mutual friend John sent it to me, asked what I thought and I said, hey, put me in touch with this young guy.

Because, you know, you're well spoken.

I thought that you, you did a good job and you know, it is something that you're stepping out of your comfort zone.

Would that be fair to say?

Yeah, just a little bit.

You know, going on college campuses and getting called fascists and stuff, it's a little uncomfortable at times.

Yeah, so.

So the thing to do with that is try if, if you do like Charlie did and try to, try to make light of it, try to make it fun, make it, you know, I.

Listen, I don't know if I told you, I do open air evangelism.

I have two goals.

My first goal is I want to proclaim an unwatered down gospel.

I want to proclaim the gospel clearly where I don't water it down in any way.

So it is crystal clear that the person heard the gospel that day.

That's my primary goal.

But a secondary goal that I have is to get one professing atheist to tell another professing atheist to shut up.

In other words, I want to conduct myself in such a way as a good ambassador for Christ so that even those who disagree with me are upset when someone else that they would agree with is mistreating me.

And so when someone calls you a fascist, I don't, I don't know.

You know what, Give me some time.

I'll probably think of something.

But you know, you could probably think of something to spell out fascist to make it, you know, sound positive, you know?

You know, or you turn it on it where you can make it into something where it's, it's like a, a badge of honor type of thing, you know.

And you know, a good example would be when, when, you know, there was a whole bunch of people pro that were protesting when J.D.

vance and.

Oh, I forget who it was J.D.

vance and someone else that went out to get a burger and, and they were like protesting and trying to make a Pete Hexaf.

It was the Pete Hess access.

And they were, they were like, you know, sitting there trying to make a scene and, and all those guys did was turn and laugh, right?

It was like, that just took, they were like, wait, you're not supposed to laugh at us or you just.

Okay, Bobby, I know you, you, you, you like humor, right?

I do.

How funny, how funny was the video that came out with after the Democrats and Republicans left the White House when, When they're going to shut down the government.

And, and, and Trump put.

Has them put out the, the AI video of the Sobrero sombrero right?

Now, here, here's the thing, Chandler, what is all the discussion now?

It's all about the sombrero, right?

Exactly.

So.

So what you see is it they made light of it.

And because the other side can't take a joke, right?

I mean, they just can't laugh.

It's so evident because people are like, come on already.

Like, it's funny.

Just laugh at it.

But they can't.

And, and so if you could do that, if you could take what they give you and turn it, use it in a humorous way, but one that makes the point.

Why does that video make the point?

Because you have Chuck Schumer saying the truth, that no one likes the Democrats.

They're doing this because they've run out of voters.

You know, they're losing the black vote and the Hispanic vote.

They got to get voters.

That's what it's all about, right?

And he's scared of aoc.

And so it.

It's a humorous thing, really, that second party.

Yeah.

And so it's really something that.

When you do that.

But why the Sobrero?

Just because that talks about the.

The illegals coming in, right.

They're coming in from the Mexican border.

So you see, this is something that you end up having where if you can turn it to be something humorous that gets the point across, right.

Then all of a sudden, their behavior ends up changing because they don't do it.

I'll give you.

For instance, I think.

I think I might have shared this with you on the phone when you and I talked.

But I had a guy, we used to have this guy that when I'd go to.

When I started going to New York City to do open air, we had a guy, his name is Aaron, and he would do open air, but he was a bigger guy.

So he didn't want to stand on a stool because he was afraid he'd break it and everyone would laugh at him.

Okay.

But he would just walk back and forth.

Well, I had heckler, same heckler for two decades.

He was from Israel.

He came to America, and.

And he had.

He had been heckling him, you know, heckling me for two decades, heckling Aaron.

Now he would do a thing to Aaron week in and week out, and Aaron, Aaron, Aaron couldn't figure out why he never did it with me.

What he would do is this guy Solomon would strip down to his underwear and just gyrate in front of Aaron.

And Aaron would get angry at that.

Right.

And what happened is Solomon liked getting Aaron angry.

The first time Solomon did it with me, I just was like, hey, folks, quick, everyone get together.

This guy can't even afford clothes.

We need to get some money together, buy him clothes.

And he got all embarrassed and ran off, put his clothes back on and never did it to me again.

Yeah, right.

Because I didn't get upset with it.

I made light of it.

I made a joke of it.

That's not what he wanted.

It didn't have the reaction he wanted.

He never did it again.

Yeah, I mean, for me, on debate, I just try and never lose my composure.

There's an old quote.

I can't.

I don't remember who said it.

It says, he who angers you controls you.

And so I always want to just submit to Christ, and I don't want to lose my composure.

I think a lot of that comes from.

I have a lot of sympathy for these people because I understand, you know, we're sinners.

We're born in sin, we're made in sin.

You're just acting out what you are.

You're a sinner.

And so I don't really take anything personal.

If you come up and call me a fascist, you know, you've probably read CNN or something, and if you want to have a conversation, that's fine.

But most of the time, usually when they.

They come by and they never want to talk, they just want to yell a name and then walk away really fast.

So, see, I always just wish him a nice day.

But again, you know, obviously, like, just.

Just.

I love to use some jokes, just add a little levity to the conversation.

Sometimes I have my friend.

He'll.

He'll.

He'll talk and he'll go on his monologue, and then I'll just kind of come in and bring in a little joke.

And it kind of levels things out a little bit.

If you're talking about, like, economics or we're talking about social issues or we're talking about spiritual issues, you just kind of want to add in a little bit of humor because it just kind of maybe can.

Can reset some of the temperature.

Not.

Not only does it reset the temperature, it's one of the things I teach.

When I teach evangelism.

How to do evangelism is.

The first step is disarm their defenses by being polite, by using humor and being polite.

What humor does is it.

It not only lightens the mood a little bit.

So it's not.

So they're.

They're not so defensive, but they enjoy the conversation and so do the people who are watching.

You know, let me put this up from Jesse.

Jesse says, remember the ones on the outskirts of the radical mockers, etcetera, While bringing the message, these are the ones you're reaching.

And he also said, don't get distracted.

And that's what you're addressing is the fact that you have to be careful not to be distracted.

I think you have the right mindset that when you go out there, these people are lost.

You have to have compassion for them.

Ray Comfort always says that.

Let them hear the compassion in your voice.

Okay.

And so when you use humor, they want to stick around for the conversation.

All right.

And.

And by the way, Melissa just posted.

I'm 44th subscriber to to Chandler Mabes, and I am 44 years old.

I turned 40.

45.

45, October 6th.

So, Melissa, that means you guys to quickly undo it and redo it to be for number 45.

Just saying thank you.

Thank you for the subscription.

We appreciate that.

So, yeah, so, folks, go and check out Chandler's MA B on YouTube.

Go and follow that if you could.

So, because we want to.

We want to see him get a bunch of followers to.

To be subscribed to the channel so you can see what he's.

What he's doing.

And.

And I'm going to encourage my audience here, especially while he's got fewer people out there, he's going to be more tuned into to.

To comments.

And so as you see things, he can improve, maybe shoot him a comment.

Those of us who are older help him out.

All right, so.

So we're getting a lot of feedback from someone.

You see, I'm gonna.

Okay, it was.

It was Bobby because it suddenly went away when he muted.

So.

So Chandler.

And I'm gonna let Bobby give some advice as well as, you know, a more seasoned saint as we are.

And Jesse is saying that he's planning on following you.

So there you go.

Thank you so much.

The thing is that you want to keep that in mind.

You seem like you're on a good trajectory with that.

You have the mindset that we need to have is that these people are lost and going to hell.

It doesn't matter.

You're not there to win a debate.

You're there to proclaim the truth of God's word.

And so the cultural change, in my view, at least when I go out, is secondary.

Do I want to See the culture change to a more biblical, Christlike society.

Of course I do.

But my primary purpose is the, is the gospel.

Absolutely right.

And so, you know, as you're, you know, as you're getting trained up, you're there, Bob Jones, you're going to get a lot of Bible.

You're going to, I hope, get some apologies, apologetics there.

Is that required?

Is apologetics required?

So, yeah, for my degree, Yes, I think so.

What's your degree in?

I'm a double major in Biblical studies and Political science and I have a philosophy concentration.

Okay, so you're, you're right up the alley of what you're wanting to do, right?

You're going to go, go use both of those.

So good.

So what, what you want to do here is, is you, you want to always have the passion for that lost person you're talking to never lose sight of it.

It is not a battle to win.

It is not a, a thing of.

Hey, I have to be right.

Look, I'm going to tell you.

Let me, I'm gonna, I'll tell you a story that I tell when I, when I do my evangelism training.

And I know it embarrasses me because I was the idiot in this story, but hopefully it'll help you.

Okay.

I remember a time I was in Freehold, New Jersey.

I was just doing open air.

I had a guy come by and he, as I'm proclaiming the gospel, he says, Christians are stupid.

I don't kind of consider myself stupid.

I mean, I've been.

I have 168 IQ.

I passed the test for Mensa.

I don't think I'm really that stupid.

Right.

I kind of think I'm somewhat intelligent, maybe.

But he said I'm stupid because I'm Christian.

So I, I challenged him and, you know, ask him to defend it.

And so his defense was this.

He said, how many chromosomes are there in a human being a month?

Like 46.

He goes, how many from the mother?

23.

How many from the father?

23.

He's like, see, that's how stupid Christians are.

You can't divide 23 by 2.

Now.

Yeah.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Yeah.

Now you don't divide 23 by 2.

You divide 46 by 2.

Right.

But here's what I didn't realize when my response was, you're an idiot.

You don't divide 23 by 2.

You divide 46 by 2.

And he had this smirk on his face.

He smiled and walked away.

And I realized at that Moment I was like, you know what?

This guy did that.

Because what he did by calling me a name and me then returning in kind, his problem pride allowed him to walk away from that conversation feeling that he was justified because I was.

I was being a jerk.

Okay?

So, Chandler, I did exactly what I know you would do.

You repented.

You would.

You would repent.

I did repent.

I said, lord, that was wrong of me.

Would you bring the guy to come by a second time?

And the Lord was so gracious that that gentleman came by a second time.

And I didn't quite see him until I. I heard him.

And I turned and looked to my left.

And as I looked, he was going, are you still stupid?

And without missing a beat, I turned and said, are you still an idiot?

Now, see, Chandler, you wouldn't have done that.

You would have learned from my mistake.

But it took me three times, you know, and the third time the guy came, I saw him coming.

And I got off the.

Where I was preaching.

I walked over to him and I said, listen, the way I spoke to you was wrong.

It was rude.

I need to ask your forgiveness.

He goes, you're still stupid.

And I almost said, you're still an idiot.

No, I didn't say that.

But right.

The.

The thing was that taught me a valuable lesson that I can get defensive as well.

I can end up feeling the pressure that people are watching.

People are.

You know, there's a crowd of people listening.

Someone may ask me something I don't know the answer to.

I may feel.

I may feel like I need to embellish an answer.

Okay?

That's the reason I.

Actually, folks, start this show every week by saying I can answer any question you have about God in the Bible.

Why?

Because I can.

Because I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

You see?

See, that's an answer you can always give.

And that's what I had learned that day.

I don't need to win a debate.

I don't need to have that challenge.

I do need to make sure that I conduct myself as an ambassador of Christ.

Okay, Yeah, I mean, that's definitely the most important thing for me, is just going out there, knowing whose banner I'm under, you know, knowing who I represent.

You know, Paul talks about we're, like, supposed to be living epistles.

And so it's.

It's.

It's.

It's always in the back of my mind, like, God is watching these people are watching me, but God is watching me.

And.

And I think the point that you made about it's not about winning a debate.

Is.

Is so.

Is.

It's just perfect.

A friend of mine, actually, one of the one time after I came back from.

I think it was like, Clemson debating that day, and he came in and he.

He says, well, you know, what did you do?

How did it go?

I said, it went well.

And he's.

He's talking about, like, you know, your point is to win the debate, right?

And I'm like, no, no.

I don't debate with these people to win.

I don't necessarily do it to lose either.

But the goal is not to.

To win some rhetorical battle.

I'm not in a courtroom.

I'm not an attorney.

The goal is to present the truth without unashamedly, unabashedly present the fullness of the truth without cutting any corners, without pulling any punches.

No, I want you to know the truth.

And like you said, the most important thing for you is to present the gospel without watering it down.

And that's, for me, is the most important thing is when I get asked a question, I want to give you the truth.

I don't want to just give you something that sounds nice or that scratches your ears.

I want to give you the truth.

That's what I'm bound to.

Is.

I feel like I'm bound to speak the truth.

There you go.

Now, Melissa, here's your chance, because Jesse.

Jesse Heller says I'm number 45 now.

Planning on sharing your video, brother?

Excited for you.

So, Melissa, if you.

If you unfollow and now refollow, you could be 45, too.

You'd be not only 44, but 45 as well.

So.

So, Bobby, what do you think?

As.

As the oldest one here, I think.

I'm guessing.

I.

Actually, you're much younger than me, unfortunately, like, by a decade.

But as someone who's older, so what, you know, what kind of advice would you have for Chandler as he's going to be going out on college campuses proclaiming the gospel, proclaiming the truth.

What kind of advice would you have for him?

Well, I would say, yeah, like we.

We talked earlier about presumption.

You're always maintaining that and the truth of the gospel.

My question for you, Chandler, would be, why?

What is it in your heart?

Why would you like to see an unbeliever come to Christ?

What.

What's the benefit of that?

Well, I was once an unbeliever, right?

And so I. I remind myself.

I think.

I think it was Vadi that said you should preach the gospel to yourself every day.

And I wake up reminding myself that I was once lost and I'm found in Christ.

And so it's.

For me, it's like I was the one that was lost.

I was really lost.

And Christ is a great savior and saved me.

And so the same salvation that he gives to me, I want, I want other people to come.

I want, I want other people to know Him.

I mean, obviously you want to obey Christ in the Great Commission, but like the thing that he gave me, I want other people to know the joy.

I want other people to know the Lord, you know?

Right, right.

And that's a good answer too.

And because you've been there and you've experienced it.

And two, we want to keep in mind that this, you know, everything should always point to God.

Yes.

And we need to keep that in mind in that when we see an unbeliever come to salvation, that it's not about them not going to hell, it's about a person who was not worshiping God and they should have been.

And that with this we.

It.

Because it always, People always ask, what do you.

Do you think everybody needs the gospel?

I'm like, yeah, what about.

And it's always a child molester.

What about a child?

Yes, they do.

Because it's not about the person.

It's always about God.

And I think exactly.

As long as you keep that focus.

And two, I don't know will help you in the future too.

I know when I was younger, people would ask me questions about the Bible and they would, they weren't in church or they didn't.

They were arguing against it and I would, didn't have the answers and I would get angry and my anger came out of them, but my anger was at myself.

And this is why two, liberals are the way they are.

They don't have answers.

They're emotionally based.

There is no logic to it.

So that's where the anger comes from.

They're angry at themselves because they realize they're saying all this stuff and they don't have the answers.

So don't be afraid of, I don't know.

But as you get older, when you, you know, not all of us could have been there like Andrew when the Bible was written.

You know, we've had to, we've had to study it.

But no, it, you, you'll notice as you get older, your I don't know answers will diminish.

Keep that in mind.

And this last thing too is, is you're going to realize when you're out there how few arguments they have I watched a 80 something year old man, he was a big.

And apologetics and he was up there and he answered questions for an hour straight, no notes.

All these unbelievers, atheists and stuff would ask him questions and he, he got done and at the end of the hour he looked at him and said have you all noticed that I answered all of yalls questions with logical, rational answers with no notes.

And he said, am I a genius?

No.

He said none of y' all ask an original question.

No one here had an original thought.

It was all rehashed stuff that's been.

And you'll find that too sometimes you'll run into people that have throw a little curveball at you.

But yeah, just keep I don't know there because you know you're not there to claim to know everything.

You're there.

And that's where the problem with the evidential side of apologetics come from is that the Bible says we're saved by grace through faith.

And how do we get faith or faith does not come by hearing the evidence.

Yeah comes by hearing the word of God.

And when you stick to that gospel, a gospel message at the core of it, you can't go wrong.

You'll find yourself depending on who you're talking to if you go into evidence.

I spent six months talking to a guy who was a staunch atheist.

There was no God and all this stuff and just talking to a casual conversation.

And after about six months he ended up moving.

But after about six months he said, Bobby, there has to be a creator.

Now hopefully that was the, the seed planted in him to find out who that creator is.

Because once you establish, once you establish there's a God, you got to find out who he is and.

But other times you don't.

Some people don't get into all that and yeah, just stick to the basics, keep it simple.

And like you said before, don't water it down.

You know they, there's too many so called churches out there doing that right now.

They don't preach on sin.

And Ray Comfort.

What is, what is the first thing he always starts with?

Have you ever seen here's five reasons.

You'Re a sinner basically.

Yeah, yeah.

He.

What does he do?

Uses the ten Commandments, right?

Yeah.

Because the point of that is someone cannot know they need a savior if they don't know that they are a sinner.

You know, without.

If I'm, if I don't know I'm drowning, I don't know, I need a life preserver.

And that's Kind of the point is keeping it simple, keeping it to that.

Yeah, yeah.

So some, some of the audience is giving you some advice as well.

Melissa says this, My advice is to pray like the Bible says, pray without ceasing.

Jesse Heller is telling you to preach the gospel to yourself every day.

Okay, this, he says, Martin Luther original originally, but this is something that you hear from a, you know, Jerry Bridges is we, we should remind ourselves from where we came.

Jesse also wants to encourage you.

He says, learn presuppositional apologetics.

It'll be a powerful tool in your toolbox.

And then Jamal Bandy, my man Jamal, from Prescribed Truth podcast.

You can go check out Prescribed Truth, either the podcast or his YouTube channel.

He says a lot of arguments are recycled and reused.

And so that's the, that's the thing to remember as well, is that they're, they're not using new arguments.

Once you're out there for a little while, you're going to, if you just write down, and I encourage you to do this, write down every question you're asked, and you're going to see you're being asked the same couple of questions.

Questions.

There's really only about a dozen questions you need to know.

Yeah, no, they're really all are the, all are kind of the same.

There's not a lot of originality.

And they all actually kind of deal with like core principles, like hinge or cardinal principles.

Basically you'd say, yeah, and, and that.

So that's the thing is if you, you know, if you go there recognizing, well, gee, I don't need to know everything.

You know, my friend Mark Spence will tell people when he trains people, he says, the thing to do is whatever question you didn't have the answer to, that's the one to study, get an answer.

Just that to that last one.

You may get asked five questions you don't have the answer to.

Whatever the last one is, he goes, that's the one to study.

And over time, you'll get better at all of them.

Because if there's only a handful of questions, 12, 20 questions that get asked once, you know, good ways.

And look, as someone who does this, right, it's a craft.

You're sitting there and you get challenged.

You say something that didn't go over well, that didn't communicate it well, let me try this, let me try that.

This is what we do when we do apologetics.

Some of it is just practice trying things.

And that didn't, you know, people didn't get that.

It didn't make sense to them or, you know, but, but you want to look.

One thing I would say is you want to look for arguments that others aren't saying.

Let me give you an example.

So one of the issues I always bring up when, when I get someone that says they're transgender, I'll ask them, do you believe that gender is fluid?

To which they almost always say, yes.

So, and what I want to do is, I want, and this is a thing I think I talked to you on the phone about, but always when I do apologetics, I usually.

Because I know the couple of questions that are going to come up.

If I'm talking to a Muslim, I have a set of questions versus, you know, someone who's, who's Jehovah Witness versus whatever.

There's going to be the same question questions that are going to come up.

So I try to get those up front, right.

Once I get those, now I can, now I can sit and go, okay, let me use them later.

So if I deal with someone who's transgender, I ask them, do you believe gender's fluid?

They say, yes.

And I'll ask, can someone switch between male and female?

Yes.

I'll ask, do you think that they're born this way?

Yes.

And I get those things up front because what I'm eventually going to get to is I'm going to ask, why is it that everyone that's born male that says they're transgender always ends up being, you know, changing themselves to be the stereotypical opposite sex?

Right.

If they're born male, they start wearing makeup, and they usually wear way more makeup than any female does.

They put, you know, they, they wear dresses.

They, you know, they, they, they will do what the opposite gender says.

And I'll say, if you were fluid, you wouldn't change.

You wouldn't have surgeries.

You wouldn't change the way you dress.

Because if you really believed you were.

Fluid as need to do any of that stuff.

Exactly.

See, but they've never thought about that that way.

Now why do I use that argument?

Because no one else does.

You know, when Ray Comfort started using what's.

If you ever watched the movie 180, if you haven't, go watch, go to 180movie.com and you can watch that movie.

By the way, if you do watch that movie, I'm just going to say the best film work in that entire movie is when you see the guy with the 6 inch spider spiked hair, the Mohawk with the 6 inch spiked hair, and he's got the tattoo around his neck.

That says cut here, man.

The guy behind the camera on that Bobby.

That man behind the camera was great.

He did.

He did excellent work.

I'm just saying it could be me.

I'll have to check it out.

Yeah, it could.

It could have been me behind the camera.

But here, here's the.

What.

When.

When Ray came out with the argument for 180, which is an argument I used to make, I would go on the street and people.

And I would use the same argument I had been using.

And now people go, oh, that's Ray Comfort.

I don't want that.

So what do I do?

I change my argument.

I started doing.

I ended up starting.

I was reading at the time, a book about John Brown, who was an abolitionist against slavery.

And I started noticing the relationship between abortion and slavery.

Slavery, because both are an ownership issue.

You're saying you own another human being.

And so I changed my argument to be one where when I argue abortion now, what I do is I argue for slavery.

I know this sounds nuts, but I'll sit there and say slavery has benefits.

I mean, people that can't afford, they don't know how to manage money.

And look, you have someone else to take care of them and provide housing and all this.

And I argue that until someone says it's wrong to control, to own another human being.

Got him.

You've got them there.

Yeah.

Once they do that, I say, then explain to me what's the difference between this is my property and this is my body?

Yeah.

And they go, right.

And so I use the term abolitionist shortly after the movie 180 came out.

So I was, as far as I know, one of the early people to use that term for abortion.

Excuse me.

So.

So as we.

As we wrap.

Wrap up Chandler, I want to give you a chance.

I want you to let folks know they want to tune into your show, or maybe they're thinking about it.

What can they expect from the Chandler Maeve show?

So for me, on my show, we are.

We're Christian first and then we're conservative second.

So.

So we're going to deal with cultural issues.

We're going to deal with spiritual issues.

And I like to go in depth.

So I want to hit the theological, philosophical aspects behind things.

I want to really dig a little bit deeper than, let's say, your average news broadcast.

We will go through a passage of scripture and then we'll take some political philosophy and mix that in and really try to get to the core of the issue.

So if you're interested in having, you know, deeper Political analysis of, of cultural events.

Come check my show out, the Chandler Mabe show.

We're on TikTok.

We have short form content there.

We have.

The full show is on Spotify as well as YouTube and then we have an Instagram as well, the Chandler Maeve show and an X.

So if you're interested in any of that, I'd love to, love to have you come out and support me now.

I think when he said he's got an ex, he's not talking about a girlfriend.

I'm just saying he meant an X account.

X account, yes.

Yeah, for us older people that think X is in a different context, just saying.

Formerly known as Twitter, the ex Twitter.

That you could say, Bobby, any, anything you, you want to enlighten us on, anything you want to share, any thoughts you have on, on tonight.

So we just dropped episode two.

So I, I encourage everybody or we just filmed episode two before.

That's possible.

Yeah, it hasn't dropped yet.

I did.

I, I've been, I've been checking, I was checking actually throughout to see if it dropped yet, but it hasn't.

Yeah.

So we actually had a, an issue with the, the file, so we had to film it again.

So hopefully it should be, should be out by the end of this week.

But no, I just.

Thank you for having me on.

Is that John's fault?

Is that John's fault?

No.

Okay.

It's not John's fault.

We can't blame my team now.

Yeah, yeah, I'll blame John, but I don't think it would be John's fault.

He doesn't make mistakes.

So.

Bobby, any.

What, any thoughts you have from tonight's discussion?

Yeah, I think tonight's been very good.

I do like apologetics.

I mean, it's one of my favorite subjects on all aspects, you know, but really we got to keep the heart there.

And it sounds like you are and that it's not about memorizing facts.

You don't want to be caught up like Jehovah Witness.

They have a lot of canned answers.

And when you, and being a martial artist, you'll know that when you reset their OODA loop, when you throw something at them that they're not expecting, they're.

They're stuck for answers and they're stuck.

And it's not about memorizing what to say and what not to say.

It's about getting first the heart of the scriptures, you know, and never losing focus on that.

Because with that you'll have the answer to a lot of those.

But.

And then like, you know, we've said before is just keep that focus.

Understand that these are lost people.

Yeah.

And you can't expect an unbeliever to act like anything but an unbeliever.

I've always heard all my life is that if you do not believe the gospel, if you do not believe the word of God, you will believe anything.

And if you ever doubt that, watch Charlie Kirk's videos.

Because these people, I'll be honest with you, I can only watch one or two of his videos at a time.

Because whoever he's talking to, their argument made no sense.

There was nothing.

No substance to it.

There's, like, no coherence.

It's all.

There was a.

There was a conversation I had on at Wilmington where a guy was arguing for more policing of guns, and then he was also arguing for less policing of criminals.

And it's like, you want more policing and also less policing at the same time.

Like, how do you.

How does that work?

Yeah, yeah.

There's.

There's no rhyme, no reason behind them in a lot of their arguments.

But, you know, we have to understand that these are unbelievers and they're.

They believe anything else.

And they're not atheists.

Don't get it twisted.

If you ever meet a true atheist, they don't believe in God and don't care.

These are antitheists.

Yeah.

Which is the weirdest of them all.

They're against God.

They're against something they do not believe exists.

That makes no sense.

That would be like.

Yeah, be like me starting an anti Bigfoot league.

Yeah.

You know, I don't believe in Bigfoot, but if you do, great.

Tell me your stories.

But these people have a passion that's driven by something.

You know, they say there's power in the name of Jesus.

If I go into a restaurant and I say Buddha, Allah, whatever, people look at you and turn their head.

But if you say Jesus Christ, you're either going to get hatred or amens.

You know, there's something about the name that invokes in people, and that's why we need to spread it, keep it going.

Well, Bobby, my challenge to you is next time that we're down at Jeffrey Rice's church, I dare you to.

To use that argument with Jeffrey.

Tell him Bigfoot doesn't exist, and then I will have the joy of watching him try.

He's.

He's going to give you all kinds of answers.

It'll be fun.

You know, I was thinking of that.

I was thinking of that place because there was all kind of Bigfoot statues around there.

Bigfoot cross.

It's big down there.

Yeah, I mean, it was.

It was so bad that all the sightings.

I wouldn't let Keith out of the house without a shirt on because he's pretty hairy and I was afraid he'd get captured or something, so.

Oh, man.

Chandler, you'll have to go check out Keith Fosky.

It's your.

Your Calvinist is his channel.

Yeah, but he's got a lot of funny stuff out there.

Especially when we.

Especially when one of us, Bobby or I stole his pennies.

I'm just saying don't leave your pennies where a Jewish guy can find them.

I'm just saying we like our pennies and we like yours too, Keith.

Eventually he's gonna.

He'll.

He'll probably reveal the.

He'll probably have the picture of me holding up two pennies smiling.

Yeah.

He's so afraid.

He's afraid that, you know, people are going to call him an anti Semite by doing that.

By saying that the Jewish.

The only Jewish guy at the conference stole his pennies.

But it happened.

It's true.

Yeah.

It's not a lie.

It's not a lie.

It's not a lie.

Hey, Chandler, you're welcome to come on anytime you want.

We do apologize here.

We usually have different topics.

I think what we're planning to do.

Well, I think what we may do.

I'm just trying to look real quick.

We will not have a show next week unless some of my co hosts want to do something because I will be traveling back from Tennessee.

But the week after, what we may have a topic on is going to be.

I think what we're going to probably do deal with is we might deal with the issue of Christian nationalism.

Is it biblical?

That's, that's what I right now have on the schedule.

But that can always change.

And so one way I do encourage you guys to do is to send me what you think we should be discussing.

You can do that.

Just send me an email.

Just Infofe Bible.

SFE stands for Striving for Eternity.

So it's a quicker way to get a hold of me.

Just Infofe Bible.

It's a new URL.

We're going to start using more and more.

So we're going to start transitioning over to that.

And so, Bobby, thanks for coming in.

It is fun hanging out with you.

We're going to be hopefully seeing a lot more of you on the show and having some more dialogue.

I know this was more focused on Chandler tonight.

And so, so we want folks to go and check out his channel.

Chandler Mabe, go on YouTube, see what he's doing, encourage this young man.

And let me ask all of you listeners who are listening, whether you're watching on, on the live stream, or more importantly, though, many of you who will be watching or listening, I should say afterwards on the podcast, may I encourage you to go to his channel and, and try to bring this young man under your wing, especially if you're an older, more experienced evangelist, that we would see this as something that, you know what, Maybe, maybe you're someone who you can't get out to the college campuses.

There's none in your area.

You're too, you're, you're too old.

You're.

You can't get out.

Maybe what you could do is pour into this young man so he could do what we cannot do.

A thought for you.

So go and follow the channel, comment with him, engage with him.

I found him personally to be someone who is not just knowledgeable, but very interested to learn.

And so this is what we should be doing as Christians.

I hate to admit that I'm now in this section in Titus 2 where I'm the older man teaching the younger men.

That's somehow just hard to.

Yeah.

Bobby, am I really the older man if I can beat up all the younger men?

I mean, is that, what's the measure of an old man?

You know, when it says older men to younger men?

What, what's actually the measure?

Is it, is it just years or.

I tell you what, take the camera in there to your medicine cabinet, and let's count the prescriptions, and we'll go from there.

Okay?

There's, there's none there.

Good.

Done.

He's a young man, then.

Yeah, I'm a young man.

Thank you.

I like that.

Bobby.

Yeah, I, I was on a blood pressure med, and that's what got me into doing the saunas and the cold plunges.

And I, I, I just decided I wasn't taking meds.

My, my cardiologist was like, aren't you glad you listened to me because you want me to take statins and double my blood pressure med?

And I redid all the tests, and all the numbers were good.

He's like, aren't you glad you listened to me and took all the medicine?

I said, oh, no, Doc, I never took the statin.

And I dropped, dropped the blood pressure medicine altogether.

He was like, what, what are you doing?

I'm taking potassium.

Crazy idea.

And I do a lot of Crazy things.

Keep myself really healthy.

So, Caleb.

Okay, Chandler, thanks for coming in.

I really appreciate it.

I think that the audience got a lot from you.

I think that you got some new followers tonight.

And so I hope that, that this is beneficial to you.

I hope this, this isn't the last time we see you.

You know, I mean, I'd love to be.

Maybe the next episode, the Christian Nationals.

And that's very interesting to me.

I'd love to be on that.

You could.

Look, it's open to anyone.

Anyone can come in.

We.

We have.

That's the thing I love about the show.

You know, I just, I was just talking with.

I, I just.

I met this young lady who's from Israel.

She's Orthodox.

And she was asked, asking me about what we do here, and I said, well, we just, we discuss Christianity.

And, you know, she said, do you accept other people's views?

I said, yeah.

We once had an Orthodox rabbi who studied.

He prepared for three months, had eight pages of notes to come in and debate me.

I didn't even know I was doing a debate that night.

I love that.

It's fun.

It's fun to engage with other people's ideas.

And, and that's the thing to do when you're doing this, Chandler.

Don't look at it as a debate.

Look at it that you're learning what someone else thinks.

Don't assume, oh, someone says they're a Muslim, they must believe this.

Engage with them.

Find out what they believe.

It's.

It's fun to do that, folks.

And that is.

I really, I like, love to have a discussion.

I tell people all the time, I said, I actually like to be wrong because it helps me learn.

And so, you know, if I, if I lose an argument, I don't think it's really losing because the goal of the conversation is truth.

And so if, if you know something that I don't.

Good, because then I can learn from you.

So, you know, the best teacher is, is the one that's always a student.

Yeah.

You know, I was, I was wrong once.

It was many, many years ago, but I do remember I was wrong once, actually.

No, sorry, I was mistaken.

I wasn't wrong.

But.

No, you're right.

The only, the only failures that we have when we go out and do apologetics is the ones we don't learn from.

Yeah.

And that's one of the things I teach in the, in our ambassador evangelism is learn from our mistakes.

And so I'm glad that you have that attitude.

So, yeah, you can Come in anytime anyone can, you know, folks want to come in and debate me?

Okay, let's.

Let's have a great discussion.

We've been doing this for.

For, oh, going on probably 15 years that we've been doing this on live streaming, different, you know, apologize streams this way.

So it's not new to us.

We enjoy doing it.

We hope it's helpful to you guys that this is what Apologex is.

I hope even you who, who are listening that you, you.

You listen to what we discussed and said.

You know what?

I got some things I gained from this that I can improve my own apologetics and evangelism because we don't want Chandler being the only one going out there.

It is time for all of us.

As I said in my Rap Report podcast, I do not want us saying, I am Charlie Kirk.

I want us saying, I am of Jesus Christ.

We have a higher calling than just being like Charlie Kirk or picking up the banner for where Charlie has left us and picking it up from him.

No, we have a greater banner because we're an ambassador for Jesus Christ.

So we have to pick up that flag, pick up that banner, carry that one into the world.

And it's time for us to stop complaining about a culture that is turning against Christ and doing something about it, folks.

It is time for us to stand up and say, I am of Christ, and go out there and proclaim the truth of God's word.

That's my encouragement to all of you.

And let me close with our regular thing is to go out and strive to make today to frightening refresh.

Go out and strive to make today a glorifying day for God's kingdom.

Amen.

See you guys next week or the week after.

I should say.