What if the key to growing your business lies in

the stories you haven't yet told?

I am joined by filmmaker, author, and master storyteller, Jude Charles

for part two of our conversation on storytelling in business.

In this episode of Architecture Business Club, the weekly podcast for

small firm founders who want to build their dream business in architecture

and enjoy more freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment in what they do.

I'm John Clayton, your host.

I know that building an architecture business can feel hard, especially

if you're a sole practitioner.

The good news is that you don't have to do it alone.

In 2024, we launched our membership community to a small group of

founding members, including architects, architecture,

technologists, and interior designers.

We meet online each week and occasionally in person to support

each other in building our businesses and to have some fun along the way.

We recently opened the doors to a limited number of new members.

If you'd like to join this supportive group of like-minded

professionals, now's your chance.

Just go to architecture business club.com/waitlist or click the link

in the show notes and enter your details so we can let you know how

you can join this incredible group.

And if you have any questions, just email John.

That's JO n@architecturebusinessclub.com.

Now, let's pick up the conversation where we left off.

That's what helps you tell a story and to be able to tell it over

and over so that you grow your business.

You, you just, you don't think about the formula.

You think about a very specific moment in time in the lesson you

learned in that moment in time.

I, I love how you've just made that so simple for us, Jude.

And already my mind is, it's bubbling away.

Now I'm thinking that, oh, how can I use this?

I'm sure I've probably got all sorts of different stories locked away

that I've not thought to share.

But if I pass it through that filter, just think about those two points,

then that's really gonna help to pick out some really great stories.

And you know, John, the, the quickest way to do that is to start

today by keeping what I call a story bank.

So just about almost every day at the end of the day, I look at what happened today.

That's it, just what happened, right?

And I quickly jot down a few things that might have happened today.

Um, like today I'll probably jot down this conversation, right?

And all I do is I put a quick title, and then I'll jot down bullet points

of just what it was that actually happened, and then a possible lesson

at the end of what I think I might be able to use this for in the future.

And if you do that every day.

What you'll end up having.

The reason I call it a story bank in the same way that you can't

go to the bank and take out money that you don't have deposited.

You need to deposit these stories, right?

And with depositing the stories, that means later on, like you mentioned,

all the different areas that you could possibly use this in your business.

You could pull it out knowing you're going to have these conversations.

I think about the stories that I have before I come on a podcast.

I think about the stories that I have before I go to have a

conversation with a potential client.

I think about the stories that I have before I get on stage, or

I'm preparing for a presentation.

You ask me why in the beginning of this, why storytelling

is so important in business.

It is for this exact reason.

You can use it in so many different areas that will, number

one, allow you to stand out.

And then number two, attract ideal clients that are the right fit for your business.

I'm going to take your advice, Judes.

I already keep a bullet journal, so I already do some daily journaling and

it would be very easy for me to just add the, add that into my daily habit

and to start creating a story bank.

So I'm absolutely gonna start doing that.

I think that's a really good tip.

And um, it also reminds me of a conference event that I went to a few years ago,

and the one of the keynote speakers was and Ley, and she's a great storyteller,

and the story that she shared in this keynote, on the face of it, you

think, how could this be a keynote?

Like it was just a story about a old secondhand sofa.

That, I think it was a son that was trying to sell this sofa and he'd put like an

ad on Facebook and it wasn't getting any interest and you're trying to give this

sofa away and they couldn't get rid of it.

And Anne shared this story about how she helps them craft a different,

uh, Facebook post that actually used storytelling within that post.

And it created some mystique around this, this sofa this sofa had its own story and

they were actually able to sell that sofa.

They got paid for it and they were inundated with messages from people.

But this what on the face of it was a, a really sort of simple everyday story.

It wasn't even like a big, in this case, it wasn't a big life changing event.

It was just an everyday story.

But actually because the.

The lesson made sense for the audience and she was able to craft

a whole keynote around this really simple story about selling a sofa.

I thought that was just, um, so interesting.

You know what?

That's a good example of John is architects, when they post their

portfolio on their website or the, you know, a specific project, they'll

tell you what they did on the project.

Right?

So, you know, just a quick bullet point of what they did on the, what they

helped the client with, what the client wanted and what they helped them with.

But if you take that project that you worked on.

And you actually tell the story, the story of the family that lives in this home.

And it doesn't mean you're naming your client's name.

'cause I know many clients wanna be private at times, but it just

means making that project human.

You talked about this sofa.

The reason that this, there was so much mystique is because you, they

brought you into a moment in time that the sofa became more than just a sofa.

There was this whole idea around it.

It's kind of like when we watch, um, animated movies or, or,

or Star Wars or, or Toy Story.

There's the movie, but then the items get sold separately, right?

That have a life of, of its own.

We all have stories of little toys that we had when we were a kid

and what that toy meant to us.

We're taking the same ideas that we're talking about, whether

it's a sofa, whether it's a toy.

We're taking the same idea with your project.

And with your project, it's not just what you did on the project.

What is the story of this project?

What is it that makes this special?

Who are the clients that you worked with?

What does this home represent?

It's not just another home.

It's not just, oh, we did this.

Look at this really cool thing that we did on, on, you know,

with the roof or whatever.

Like it's, what is it that makes this special?

What is the very specific moment in time that can bring this to life

in a way that no one else can do this home the way that you did it?

No one else can design this home the way that you designed it.

Um, you wanna share that and share it at a deeper level.

And when you do that, you're able to open the door to, for

your client, to trust you.

They can see more about your brand, your personality, the passion that you

have for architecture and the purpose.

So I love that you shared that about the sofa.

'cause the sofa is a random thing, but the sofa can have so much more

meaning when we think about the days growing up and what we did in the

family room sitting on the sofa, right?

Like there's so much more to that.

And that is if you take nothing else away from this, make your business more human.

And the way to do that is through storytelling.

And when you do that, it will help your clients not just feel like

they want to work with you, but that they have to Perfect pictures

only reveal 10% of the story.

Everything else that we're talking about now is the other 90% that

really makes the difference.

Mm. Yeah, that's so true.

Would you like to share an example of an architectural designer that's

used storytelling in some way to either attract clients or to benefit

them or their business in some way?

You have already shared an example, uh, of that couple, but I wondered if there's any

other examples that you wanted to share.

Yeah.

So there's an interior designer I worked with out of California.

Her name is Maryanne.

And Maryanne, um, runs a, I think it's a eight team, um,

group of interior designers.

Her company is Hypno Design Group, and she uses her docuseries

specifically in presentations.

So she's getting, you know, she's presenting, she's working with, um,

in a multifamily interior design.

And when she presents to the client she uses, she opens up

with a part of her docuseries.

Well, in doing this, in the first couple of weeks of actually launching

her docuseries, she used it in a presentation, and that client not

only hired her and loved it so much.

That it caused them to hire her.

But that client ended up hiring me and my company to do one

for their, for their company.

And so that's the power of like doing a docuseries video storytelling.

Um, it helped Maryanne get this project into work on multiple

properties for this client.

But on the other end, this client was believed in it so much that they needed,

they wanted to invest in it, right?

And so, um, that's one example.

Another example is, uh, Jen Davidson, an interior designer

out of, uh, Chicago, Illinois.

And she's using it specifically to connect with more architects and builders.

She, that's her greatest source of referrals.

That's where she gets most of her clients.

And so instead of just reaching out to new architects and builders to

say, Hey, I'm an interior designer in town, would love to work with you.

She now has a first impression that is this docuseries that allows her

to not only share her story and her journey, but to show the process and

how she goes about doing what she does.

And so, um, you know, that's the, that's kind of the point.

It's like it allows you to connect with more people.

There's a builder out of, uh, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, uh, Brad Lovett, who

is a luxury home builder, and we're in the process of doing his docuseries now.

But even as we're doing behind the scenes, like many people are, you

know, he's already doing luxury.

He's already doing very high end, but he's able to connect and it opens doors

for him to connect with more people because we're doing this docuseries

and because we're telling his story in a way that he hasn't told it before.

When I talk about making your business more human, oftentimes we can, even

for someone like Brad, who's probably a perfect example, Brad Levitt has, I think

it's over 200,000 Instagram followers.

Part of how he was able to grow his business to that level is because

he shared a lot of behind the scenes of his business and shared

how he was, how he was growing.

It's been 12 years and he shared how he's been growing, the

beautiful homes that he works on.

But what I'm doing with his project is pulling back the veil to show who he is as

a father, who he is as a leader, running a team of almost 30, um, employees.

Like what does it look like?

And so part of his story that we're talking about, Brad is 44 now, but two,

two years ago at 42, he suffered a stroke.

Geez.

you know, he's young and it's like, how do, what happened?

Let's talk through that.

Especially running such a large business.

How did you get through that?

Because you see him today and you can't tell that he had a stroke, but

like, how did you grow from that?

That seems like a too personal of a story, but what that communicates

is the type of man, the type of leader, the type of CEO he is.

That will be leading the charge on building this home for you.

Again, you get to buy into the person, even though he's not physically doing

the work, he's not the one that's on site, but you trust that, oh my,

if he's such a great leader, he's, he's obviously hiring the right team.

He's obviously hiring the right employees.

And we have some of those interviews as well.

There, there's employees who are like, you're gonna have

to pull me from this chair.

I'm not going anywhere.

I'm working for a FT Construction is the name of this company.

I'm working for Brad for as long as it takes.

And so those are things that honestly, you can't pay for.

You build a brand that tells your story and your marketing

becomes more than your portfolio.

And so when you ask for examples of like, clients that have had success,

there's definitely clients that, like I mentioned with Maryanne,

she's been able to make more money.

Close projects, like, you know, for each person it's gonna be different as to

how much does a pro, uh, how much does a project, um, what is the profitability

you're gonna get on that project, right?

That, that's what it means to you.

But.

There's also telling a story in such a way that it, it cements your brand and

your legacy that will continue to create what I call this sought after effect.

People are now seeking to work with you because they know your story

and they know it on a deeper level.

Yeah, I think.

Success isn't just about the dollars or the British pounds over here in the uk.

It, it's not, I think there's, there's many different ways

to measure success for sure.

We touched a little bit there about, uh, upon marketing.

What marketing activities do you think that architects and

designers, um, could be doing beyond just sharing their portfolio?

Because often that is the overarching marketing strategy for many practices

that maybe they have a website and it's very much focused on the portfolio

and maybe a few social media posts, but what else could they be doing?

Remember, don't forget to join the wait list for our membership community,

where you can meet other business owners who want the same thing as you.

If a thriving business that gives you more freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment.

just go to architecture, business club.com forward slash waitlist, or

click the link in the show notes.

And enter your details.

So you don't miss out on this amazing opportunity to improve

your business and your life.

And if you're enjoying the show, then please leave a five-star review or

rating wherever you listen to podcasts.

Now, back to the show.

The biggest mistake you can make is thinking that all you have is your

portfolio, or worse thinking that, you know, our work isn't that big of a deal.

And I think there are two, two marketing activities I think about most.

And one is showing behind the scenes of the process.

When you show behind the scenes of the process, you inadvertently show

behind the scenes of your personality.

You inadvertently show behind the scenes of challenges that come up

and how you're dealing with them.

Um, you inadvertently show the.

The, uh, experience that you have in working on these projects.

And so behind the scenes showing behind the scenes, showing a

dramatic demonstration, I call it a dramatic demonstration of proof.

You're gonna tell me that you're gonna take care of issues, you're

gonna tell me that um, you've been doing this for x amount of years.

Well, can you prove it?

Can you dramatically demonstrate to me the words that you're saying?

Can you show me versus tell me?

Um, so I think of behind the scenes, that's one of the dramatic demonstrations.

Another one is social proof.

I talked about earlier that every business has three stories, but uh, uh,

they have the origin story, the vision story, and then the success story.

Instead of you just telling a success story, also have your

clients tell the success story.

'cause your clients will say words and will say things that even

your, you don't know half the time.

One of the things that I love to do in these docuseries that usually surprises

my clients that I work with is that.

When I interviewed their clients, their clients are saying things that

they've never said to them, right?

And so marketing activity, when you think of like, how do we

get the right message out there?

How do we get, how do we connect with more ideal clients?

You've already had ideal clients and those ideal clients, should you want

to get them on camera, capture them on camera talking about how they worked with

you asking, not just, um, you know, of course, did you get a beautiful home?

But asking what was the experience like?

What did that architect do that surprised you that you weren't expecting?

How did this architect walk you through this project?

How did we walk you through the entire process of building your home?

Um, and then one that I, I love to ask, that's usually a curve ball,

is can you imagine life without X?

So can you imagine life without John Clayton?

Can you imagine life without Jude Charles?

And just see where that takes you, because sometimes.

Sometimes what becomes the real meat of the story is that when they really

sit and think about, man, I, no, I can't, I I don't want to imagine that

it's because there was something so valuable that you did that was more

than just design their home, which you did, brought meaning to their home.

Like I work with an interior interior designer who talks about, like, she really

wants her clients to, um, as she's going through the process to make it emotional.

Like, if you're going to invest in building out your home and you're

gonna invest in having the things that you want, make it matter, right?

And so in doing that, she makes her clients feel seen and heard.

And so like, that's what sometimes clients don't get, that they don't

get to see, feel seen and heard.

Sometimes they feel less than, they feel lower than because whoever's

designing or working on their home is like, no, we are important, not you.

And so.

That speaks to your experience.

So the the marketing activities is to work on, is show behind the scenes.

Every single person now has a perfect camera in their pocket to use.

And whether you have an iPhone or an Android, cameras are

really amazing nowadays.

And you wanna document that, document the journey through, behind the

scenes of what's happening day to day in the business, even if it

means documenting a team meeting.

'cause there's stories that come from that.

There's stories that come from the, the challenges, the big

wins of working on the project.

Um, and then you want to show, uh, your clients telling their stories.

And then the last thing I'll actually add to that is, um, speak more.

One thing I wish, like I had someone ask me this the other day, what,

what would I have done differently?

It's been 19 years.

What would I have done differently?

If I had to start over and, and there's four things, but

one of them is speaking more.

I would've spoke more in the beginning.

I waited 13 years to do what I'm doing today, which is getting on

podcasts or speaking on stage and speaking about the work that I do.

I had my head down and I did the work, but I wish that I had spoken sooner

because there's so much I was learning, uh, along the journey that would

have allowed me to grow even quicker.

Right.

And I think it's, it is less the, it's, it's not even just about the

money and growing the business quicker.

It's, it's also about working with the right clients and building

trust and being able to communicate the right message very early on,

even though you're still learning, I'm still learning 19 years later.

There's nothing, I haven't arrived.

But that ability to speak more allows you to fulfill your purpose there now.

It is not a a month.

That doesn't go by where I don't get these messages from someone that

is saying, I heard you on a podcast and what you shared changed my life.

I never would've imagined that.

I never would imagine, Hey, I'm just getting on here

to talk about storytelling.

Didn't imagine that that would happen.

Um, and so that would be the third thing is speak more because

your clients are waiting for you.

There are potential clients out there waiting for you.

They just don't know you that you exist.

So show behind the scenes of your business.

Interview your clients so that they can share about what the experience is

like, and speak more about what you're doing and how you're doing it, and why

you're doing it the way you're doing it.

That there are three brilliant tips there.

Thanks for sharing those, Jude.

It is so true.

I think the, going back to the first idea that you shared the behind the

scenes, there is a lot that we do day to day in our businesses that we.

Often feel is not very interesting or boring because it's very familiar to us.

But for somebody that isn't familiar with it, this could be so interesting.

Like it could be so insightful for them to get that glimpse behind the scenes.

So I think that is really powerful.

And your last point about the, uh, speaking more that resonates with me

much like yourself, I have, well, many years I've not been comfortable to

do that, and it's only very recently in the last 18 months that I've

begun to feel comfortable to do that.

And I've pushed myself a little bit outside of my comfort zone with the

podcast and with public speaking.

And the difference that that makes is, is huge.

Absolutely.

And the fact that.

I think there's an element of it for me that's kind of like, look, just get

over yourself because while you are worrying about yourself thinking, oh,

like what are people gonna think of me?

Am I gonna look foolish?

The audience, they're not thinking about that.

They're, they've got their own concerns and worries.

They're thinking about like their own worries about themself.

You know, their own insecurities.

They're not thinking about yours.

And, um, to be able to talk and share something useful, or a story that's

gonna be helpful or impactful for somebody, it's really powerful and

it's such a great way of being seen and being heard and helping people.

So yeah, absolutely.

I think that's the way forward.

Definitely.

Jude, you specialize in video storytelling.

Why video over other mediums?

It is not that the other mediums don't matter, like audio,

obviously we're doing podcasts, right?

That matters.

Um, written is important words.

You can't do a video without words.

But what I love about video is that it combines all three.

So it combines the image, it combines the audio, and then

it combines the written word.

Um, and when you do that, it makes it easier to share your

message over and over again.

Um.

We, I talked earlier about like people meeting you before they ever meet you.

If you're sharing videos, whether on Instagram or YouTube, that allows them

to get to see your personality and it allows them to see how you work, right?

Um, hearing something said 1000 times is not as powerful as seeing at once.

When you see it, you believe it.

And so that's why video storytelling, that's why it's something that I've

mastered over the last two decades.

Um, and it's why something I continue to do even through podcasting is

because it allows people to get to know who I am beyond the work that I do.

Um, videos invite people into your world.

They can see your office, they can see the homes that you work on.

They can see your team members and highlighting your team members.

There's usually four main objections that people have.

Clients, potential clients have before they decide to work with you.

When they're asking the question, why should I work with you versus any and

every other option or ev any other, of any and every other architect available

to me, they're thinking about price.

Like how much does it cost and why does it cost so much?

They're thinking about, uh, um, experience, right?

What will this experience be like?

Especially if they've done this before and they didn't like the experience,

like they're worried about what this experience is gonna look like or going to

how they're gonna feel this time around.

They're worried about the education of like, maybe it's my first time doing this.

I don't know what to expect and I don't wanna mess this up too much.

I don't wanna spend too much money, but I also don't wanna

pick the wrong things or whatever.

Right?

And then whether or not you're the right fit, those four objections, price, um,

experience, education, and right fit when you create videos and in my case,

videos, storytelling, this docuseries.

It allows them to, it takes it, it takes this thing that might usually

take six months to a year before they ever decide to work with you.

And it condenses the time down to where they're making a quicker decision on

working with you because they've seen you, they've experienced you, they

kind of know what you're about through watching multiple videos that is like,

okay, this is, they feel good about the decision that they're making.

It's not buyer's remorse.

Right?

And so that's why video storytelling, it's, it's, it's truly the invi,

the part of inviting someone into your world so that they can make

the right decision for themselves.

I'm never trying to convince a client that I'm the right decision.

I want them to make the choice for themselves to see it for themselves and to

believe in it for themselves so that we'll have a great experience working together.

Yeah, I think the only thing that would, I guess, be better

than video storytelling would be that you are actually in person with that

person and you, you are, you're doing it that way, but I. That is just

not scalable for most businesses.

Like we're not in a position to be able to, to spend enough time with every

perspective client to be able to build that know, like, and trust that way.

You mentioned in those examples that you shared, that you mentioned connecting

with more people, that was something you mentioned several times and that

is so true because if you've got a video that people can watch, that they

can watch again and again that is, can share it everywhere, then that is gonna

supercharge the amount of, the number of people that you can connect with

and the timeframe that that can happen.

So to be able to do that, to have that asset as part of your arsenal

in your business, if you like.

Yeah, very, very powerful stuff.

Jude.

What would be the main thing that you'd like everyone to take away from

the conversation we've had today?

Two things.

Everyone is a storyteller, and number two, you've been trying

to figure out how to grow your business, how to get more clients.

You've been trying to figure out, um, how do I raise my prices?

How do I get people to see that we're different?

It's not just about how, but it's about who?

Same three letters, HOW, but you reverse the order to WHO.

Same three letters, two different meanings.

Focus more on who you're being and who you're showing to your clients.

Potential clients.

And in doing so, you'll connect with the right type of client.

Um, so again, number one, you're a storyteller.

You don't need me to do that.

You don't need me to tell you that.

Focus on a very specific moment in time and the lesson that you learned

in your, in that moment in time.

And then focus on who, who are you being and who are you showing to the world

that allows them to connect with you in a deeper way so that you grow your business.

I love that.

Thanks Jude.

Was there anything else that you'd like to share that we haven't

already covered about storytelling?

No, that's it.

I think, um, you know, you wanna get started with this.

Maybe you're still like trying to put the pieces together, or maybe the wheels

are turning in your mind on like, oh wait, I think I could really do this.

There is, uh, the storytelling for design creatives that I have.

It's 10 storytelling prompts.

So I ask you 10 questions to help you come up with the stories that

we've been talking about today.

Um, go to jude charles.co/john JON, and that is where you can download

this storytelling for creatives to be able to get started with

storytelling in your business today.

That's awesome.

Jude, I have a final question for you.

I say this isn't about storytelling, but it is about storytelling.

I love to travel and to discover new places, and I would love it if you

could share with us one of your favorite places and what you love about it.

Yeah, so I love, um, California is a place that I love,

so I would definitely recommend any part of California that you go to.

I recommend that.

But the another one is, um.

Jamaica.

So I've been to Jamaica quite a few times.

Kingston, JAMA or Kingston, or you can go to, uh, uh, Montego Bay, Jamaica,

but the islands, the Caribbeans.

I love visiting the Caribbeans.

Um, and I love it because it's peaceful.

It's near the water.

I grew up near the water and um, there's just nothing like it.

There's nothing like the sun beating on your face.

There's nothing like the, the water getting inside, the water, getting

in the ocean, and, um, filling the sand in between your toes.

And so, um, those are two places I'd recommend.

California or, uh, Jamaica.

Oh yeah, both fantastic places.

I've not been, but they're on my bucket list of places to visit.

I think the, the closest that I've made it to Jamaica was, uh, Barbados.

My wife and I had a really great holiday there many years ago before having

children, and we absolutely loved it.

We had such a great time.

Um,

is a beautiful island too.

Yeah.

yeah, yeah.

I hope to get back there one day.

Jude, could you please remind everybody the best place to connect with you online?

I.

Best place is Jude charles.co.

That is my website.

Second place you can go to is Instagram at Jude Charles.

Um, those are two places.

I'm, I will, I live is, uh, Instagram and my website site.

Perfect.

Thanks again, Jude.

I really enjoyed the conversation today.

It's been a lot of fun.

Thank you for having me, John.

It's definitely been a lot of fun.

A lot of great questions to, uh, help us go deeper with storytelling.

Next time I talk about how much money is enough,

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of architecture business club.

If you liked this episode, think other people might enjoy it.

Or just want to show your support for the show.

Then please leave a glowing five-star review or rating wherever you listen

to podcasts, it would mean so much to me and makes it easier for new

listeners to discover the show.

And if you haven't already done, so don't forget to hit the subscribe button.

So you never miss another episode.

If you want to connect with me, you can do that on most social media platforms,

just search for at Mr. John Clayton.

The best place to connect with me online, though is on LinkedIn.

You can find a link to my profile in the show notes.

Remember.

Running your architecture business.

Doesn't have to be hard and you don't need to do it alone.

This is architecture business club.