if you think, oh, you need to engage with social media, uh, but you're not

really sure how or why, and, and you kind of, there's a resistance around

it and you're not sure what that resistance is about, Uh, Lana, how,

how do you want to kick off with this?

? I, I can kick off with when social media started, it was more of a, oh, you need

to be here and here and here and here.

So that, that has been one of the experiments of like,

oh, going to, to platforms.

And now I've decided on just sticking with one platform.

I mean, there's some information here and there that I share in other

platforms, but, um, having, uh, a clearer space where I can interact

and engage with people, um, has also helped me clarify how I'd want to share,

So that's the biggest shift.

What's your biggest struggle?

Well, that, that came with that struggle of, it's just too many, you know?

There's just too many platforms.

Oh, too many platforms.

Not knowing where to post.

Exactly.

Well, there's a lot of noise, isn't there?

I think that's one thing that you've highlighted Lana, and I

think a lot of people struggle with is like, who to listen to, where

to post, how, how much to post, whether you're adding to the noise.

our own relationship with, with consuming content as well.

I think, I know I have a sort of love hate relationship with, I

think, like Ro says, this idea of.

Do we want to add to the problem that we're trying to solve?

You know, by giving people more things to read, more things to

listen to, more things to do.

I think with my own journey, um, I mean this goes to, I think, was it

Sarah's original question about why would you post when you're unclear.

for me there's something about having something to say or feeling

like I've got something to say.

And the thing that actually got me posting early on was actually just

responding to questions on Quora, if you remember that many years ago.

yeah, I really found that answering people's questions was a great way for

me to get going and actually shifted my relationship to social media because

I felt like I had something to say.

Didn't necessarily mean it was the right thing to say for everyone, but.

There was an opinion that I had that I felt was valid.

So that was a shift for me was knowing that, yeah, I've got an opinion and

it's, I think, I feel it's worth sharing for people to have a counterpoint to

some of the other stuff I was reading at the time, particularly around startups.

Um, biggest struggle, I think like a lot of people really is like,

what to post when, how often, and yeah, just understanding.

Some days you just don't feel like doing anything and not,

not kind of, um, not feeling it.

So do you, do you.

Like Seth, go post every day and, you know, push through the resilience

or the, the struggle, or do you just do it when you feel like it, which

means sometimes you probably won't post, or maybe you'll go through a

whole period of not posting at all.

I would say my, my biggest struggle is having too many thoughts.

In terms of they're not, there are like, there's lots of different tracks, lots

of different things that I wanna say and also different ways I want to say it.

I like video, I like imagery, I like words.

I'm more, I more keen on doing kind of video and just talking

out loud, but at the same time.

There's that, you know, who engages with that?

How do people engage?

It's not an easy thing to just snack on unless you are really

good at doing one minute boom.

You know, a tad Hargrave who just like, smashes those things out.

And, and I have thought about why, and I have thoughts

about why he's good at that.

But, so that is, that is that thing of like, I think

just it's a bit like focus.

It's like having lots of interests and then, then also.

feeling the need to, to just be consistent with the message,

which is, and then, so there's the strategic aspects, the struggling

with the strategy part of it because there's the, the lots of, uh,

explorations that I'd like to do.

the shift for me this year was.

Committing to posting every day no matter what, and having a

very simple structure to follow.

So not trying to work out, how am I gonna write this?

I'm gonna write like there's a structure to follow.

I'm just gonna write what's coming up for me.

I'm gonna time box it and I'm not gonna worry too much

about quality or whatever.

Got a vague idea of who I wanna write for and what I wanna write about, but

I'm not gonna get too obsessed about it.

But ultimately time boxing it, I think really helped with the consistency.

Uh, the quality was variable, but what I found over time was the

clarity started to emerge and the writing style started to emerge.

But that first, you know, the first period is just like, oh, is

this, is this actually help at all?

Is this any use whatsoever?

Oh, I still relate with, but what you both shared, especially Lawrence

around, oh, am I adding to the noise?

and then one of the things that really got to me was like, yeah, but there

are other people who post, you know?

And, and, and I'm just like.

Then why can't my voice be added in there?

So that, that gave me a bit more of that reassurance of, okay, you

know, uh, I would like to also share my voice in the same way that other

people are sharing their voices.

Thinking of the noise that you're making as well.

Yours is a nice noise.

There's lots of noises I don't want.

Exactly right.

And then there's also the, um, like what you said, Carlos, where the

consistency becomes the clarity of who do I really want to engage

in, uh, in these conversations?

Because I see it as, uh, an uh, I would say a gateway to a conversation, right?

So there's a, I've posted.

Posted something and whoever interacts with it or engages with

it, becomes that possibilities of exploring what's there between us.

So how would I know that if I don't share my thoughts or share what, uh, I'm

going through or the processes that I'm, um, using for myself and with others.

So there, there is for me is like, oh, this is an invitation and, The,

the more that I put something out there, the clearer I get to who I

want to have these conversations with.

So going back to, all right, Sarah, she wants to engage with

social media, but she's really unclear as to what to do right now.

Um, what would you Lana suggest to her?

For me, when I started posting it was a means to document, like I approached

social media as a platform for me to also document how I'm unpacking

things for myself and um, uh, as I, you know, share things online.

It also becomes apparent that other people are also.

Uh, unpacking things or grappling through things in

the same vein that I was do.

so it helped to have an understanding that, hey, wait a minute, whatever it is

that I'm going through, the uncertainty of it all or being in a liminal

space, other people have it as well.

Um, so documenting, or using social media as a way to document

and to just share my own thought processes or where, you know, or

where I am or what's alive in me.

Enabled me to also look back in those posts.

Uh, and, and this is also why it's difficult to let go of Facebook

when you have those memories.

And it was like, oh my God, seven years ago, this is what I was going through.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so yeah, it really just helps to see it as a place of documentation.

yeah, I like that.

I think, I think a lot of it comes down to how we frame this really,

if you think about it, is I have to wait till I'm clear to post

'cause I wanna promote something.

You know, seeing it as self-promotion I think is a big barrier to a lot

of people as they think of it as, you have to have something to say,

I have to have something to promote.

I need to be certain.

So therefore I'm not gonna wait.

I'm not gonna do anything till that moment.

Um, versus like Lana said.

Like, what are you trying to work through now?

And I find it useful to think about what the questions I'm exploring at the

moment, what's the curiosities that I have about my work or where I'm heading,

or the people I wanna work with.

So seeing it as a way to work out loud I see is a really powerful

tool to build clarity for yourself.

I find that I, I get most clear by writing rather than thinking.

Thinking is useful, but I definitely find writing helps me get clear.

And like, like you've said, really connection.

Like seeing that there's people out there, maybe we don't

even know who they are yet.

Maybe that's still to be worked out, who our audience is, but knowing that

this is a tool to be able to connect to people that we haven't met yet.

And I find that still, quite profound in that we can reach someone on the other

side of the globe who doesn't know us, and then we can write something and it

will connect with them on a level that will cut through a lot of other noise.

So.

We might be adding to the noise, but we've seen people come to our event who

have read something that we've written and they feel instantly connected to us.

And that I think, is something I try and hold onto is that feeling of, if we

can open up and be vulnerable about our story and the things that we're curious

about or the things that we worry about or find a struggle, then actually

there'll be other people out there who have that same, uh, challenge too.

So yeah, trying to see it as a bridge to, to build connection with others.

so my thought would be what does unclear mean?

Um, and if it's unclear about the topic, then I can understand,

oh, what am I gonna write?

Um, so this connects us out.

What's the intention of, of getting onto social media?

What is the actual intention of committing to that intention?

And if it, it could be the intention of.

I just wanna learn how to write.

It could be just that I wanna get better at writing.

I want to just get a muscle.

So I don't necessarily have an idea.

I don't necessarily have, uh, an agenda.

I just wanna have a way of just practicing with it.

And so I would say if you had that intention, ignore

that people will see you.

'cause more often than not, unless you've started to build your

own brand, no one will see you.

And until you're actually consistently posting.

Probably the, the, your posts wherever they will be will go unnoticed.

And more often than not, you'll get to a point like,

why is no one seeing my post?

As opposed to, oh my God, someone will see my post.

So, if you're in that place of being unclear about why you're going

there, then maybe you just do it.

'cause very intrinsically you just want to get, practice.

This idea of writing and then rather than trying to make up.

The process of doing it, get someone to just tell you what to do.

Find a, like a, a gym instructor or a personal trainer's, like, alright, do

this for the next 10, 20, 30, 40 days.

And that's it.

And, and don't think about it.

Just do it and just get the muscle.

So that's the way I would say, Sarah, if there's a resistance to doing it, don't

think too much about it and just do it.

And don't worry too much about how good it is.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Okay.

I like good to look

at the question or what, uh, Marissa shared because I so relate

with that of like, oh, I have so many topics or so many, interest?

And then how do I focus which interest to share about?

And for me, I, I consider myself as a, a multipotentialite.

Uh, that's the, the term That is attached also to

a lot of neurodivergence.

So like you having so many interests and having so many things that

you'd want to do, I think the part that really supported me was to

reconcile with, but that's who I am.

You know, I can never be to.

Someone who says, okay, I'll just do this one thing there.

I, I thrive in having different projects that I'm involved with

or different collaborations.

So for me there was really this awareness of, oh, wait a minute.

I am, you know, I am this person.

I, I have multiple interests, and how I approach sharing those different

interests is how I approach it with care of, these are the, you know, these are

the themes, or these are the topics, or these are the causes that I care about.

And because I care about them, then I'm sharing it out in the

world in the hopes that other people can care about them as well.

And that has really helped me to realize that no, you know, you

cannot just expect one theme, um, to, to think about when you

think of, oh, what does Lana do?

Or what does Lana write about?

Oh.

But it's more of what does Lana care about?

And I can care about a lot of things.

I wish I'd had had this worked out.

Um, all I know is.

Whenever we've tried, and this is a long time ago, tried to have like a content

strategy and have sort of posts lined up or things that we have to deliver.

For me, the energy just goes away.

It feels very much, much like I'm just adding to the noise

'cause I'm just creating content.

It's content.

It's not something that's coming from me.

Whereas a bit like Lana says, when it comes from something that

I wanna share and I'm curious about that day, it feels more.

Um, it feels more authentic and it feels, and, and often those things

connect more with people 'cause they're not written with something,

some other ulterior motive in mind.

So for me, I don't worry too much about that because yeah, our

interests change and, and I think also a lot of the people that we

feel like we're talking to, they also have different interests too.

So, you know, I don't think we're all kind of.

Siloed into this is my audience who's interested in these things.

You know, if I talk about music, it doesn't mean that people in the

community will be alienated by, there'll be some people who connect

with that, or football or some of the other things I'm interested in.

So I think it's just understanding what makes me me and hope that other

people out there, some of them will resonate with it and some might not.

And that's okay.

I am gonna take a different tack on this.

Um.

Because I would argue, Lawrence, at the beginning you talk, you wrote a lot

about happiness and business and there was a consistency and continuity there.

And I would say I, again, if there's a should, I should do this

because I need to be continuous and you gonna then that I, I agree.

It's energy's gonna be difficult and you're not gonna post.

But if you, and I've seen this with lots of coaches and, and people,

whether they're podcasting or on social media, they are really

clear about who they want to help.

They will talk again and again and again about the same thing, whether

that is around relationships, whether that's about innovation.

I think of Nicholas, Nick Ovitz always talking about the business model canvas.

Whether that's a struggle for him, I don't know, but you think

about him and that's what he talks about innovation in organizations.

You, you can't help but think about him.

Tad Hargrave marketing.

In a way that's more humane.

That's how I hear.

I hear about him.

Yes, he talks about other political challenges and stuff like that, but he

is so consistent about who he's talking to and what he's talking about, that

I can't separate him from this idea of how can we do marketing ethically?

How can we do marketing in a way that's more energizing and just more human?

And so I think there is an element of.

Continuity is important, consistency is important.

But if it's only for consistency's sake, don't do it.

It's just gonna like burn out 'cause it's a should.

But I believe if you get really clear, it's like, you know, I

really wanna help these people.

And then what Thad says, it's like you gotta make it easy for them to find you.

And if you don't make it easy, and yes, there's lots of noise, but if

you can't, if people can't find you 'cause they dunno what you're about

and you dunno what you stand for.

Then it's, it's, it's gonna be a challenge.

So there is an element of, I think, commitment to say,

I wanna help these people.

I need these people to find me.

'cause I really love this work and I, I really envy people who can just get

so focused like, this is my work to do.

These are the people I want to help, these are the

problems I want to talk about.

And this speaks to the red thread that, uh, Floris was asking

a while ago already, right.

Of, you know, how do you see the red thread?

And from what I'm hearing from you, Carlos, is by.

Practicing and experimenting.

You get to really be clear on who do I want to serve in the first place?

Who do I want to connect with?

Who do I want to reach in with this message in the first place?

And to be honest that that, that is also why we envision 2020.

We say, you know, let's start also with who you know.

Who is it?

Who is this message for?

Who is this product or service for?

Because yeah, when we want to share that in social media, it enables,

you know, the ease in people understanding, Hey, wait a minute,

this, this person's writing is about me.

Uh, this is, or this product is for me.

So there's a resonance there that's immediate.

When you can, you can definitely connect with who it is for.

Yeah, it feels to me there's something about knowing, like you

said Carlos, who you're talking to.

' cause when, if I think about when I started blogging, I had an idea of

who our audience was, but I wasn't comfortable revealing lots about me

'cause I didn't think it was relevant.

But as we've gone on this journey, the people that we, uh, have our community

of revealing more of themselves in their work, it's part of this journey of

building a business from the inside out.

So there is an element of.

Um, building trust with people and I think just showing that there's

more to us than just our work.

So if I think of Nick Kim.

I think of his audience.

There's probably people in corporate organizations, so maybe it's not

relevant for them to hear anything about him, what his interests are,

the things he does that are outside of that, because he just wants to position

him in that way to build his career.

Um, but my hunch is for those that we are talking to, we wanna

know more about the people.

We wanna know more about them and their lives and what interests them

and what sparks their curiosity.

So.

I suppose we're on this journey with the people that we are trying to

support, which for me says that maybe it's okay to go a bit left field

sometimes as long as we keep on track with most of the stuff we post along.

Like you said, there's a, maybe there's a kind of a rule of how much we post

personally and how much we reveal, but ultimately most of the things

we post are in the same ballpark.

Let's say, just so we don't completely confuse people.

For me this is, uh, a question of trust.

And there's two aspects to this question of trust.

Trust that you can actually do the job.

You know, I, you can help me, you are a person who knows how

to do this stuff, but also trust because you're someone who gets me.

And I think this is where the, the broader aspect of this, talking

about our own personal interests.

So maybe our struggles, our challenges or questions, that element there

is about, you're someone like me.

You feel this, you know that.

And so, and this is, I think, connects to this idea of niche, not niche

based on some kind of demographic.

Not even just a psychographic.

It's just like a, a way of being.

And, and, and I, you know, Lana, you will attract people

because of your energy, but they will only know your energy.

If you talk about your energy and you show up with that energy,

whether that's here on the video or writing your posts or doing your

hand where, where your workbooks, whatever it is, if that's not visible.

And then no one gets you.

So I really, I I, I think that, uh, like florist, there is a very specific energy

about you that people know and get.

There's no other florist in the world that I know.

and the thing about the social media bit, I think for me, any

person personally with getting to know float, I don't see him enough.

And, and that's, and but maybe that's an algorithmic thing.

'cause I know you do post and you have very clear opinions.

And this is the thing, I think this is about having clear

opinions that we're attracted to.

And, and so on one hand there's a consistency of I'm this person for

these people who struggle with this.

And that's the strategic part.

And then there's, I'm this person who struggles with this?

I'm trying to do this and that's the connection part and, and that's maybe

the balance of how do we do that without oversharing and also creating too much

uncertainty in the people we wanna help.

I had described as the other day, the vulnerability hangover.

Our friend Graham talked about this book launch when we share too much and then

we have to retreat back into our shells.

Yeah.

And we all uniquely set to engage with this stuff in different ways.

And so there is no one, well, I'm gonna say the, the game, the rules of the

game have been set by the platforms.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

There is consistency, there is opinionate being opinionated.

You know, the more opinionated, whether you are right or wrong, the, the more

you stand out, the more you post, the more people will see you, the more

polarizing that becomes, the more discussion that that, that happens.

And so that is the rule.

Those are the rules of the game, whether we like them or not.

That's how I understand it.

And then there's how we want to turn up.

And so to fight against the platforms because we're, or to

create that, why isn't it working?

'cause I wanna do it this way.

Well, if you can just accept it won't work that way because of the

platforms and we just do our thing and then connect in the ways we want

to connect, then it won't, well, it won't be so painful, I don't think.

And then another part around social media that I personally would say

I've benefited so much from is to also see it as a way to get nearer

to people who I want to orbit with.

And in a sense of, um, it allowed me to look at, okay, who are the

people that are talking about the topics that I care about?

And how can I engage with them?

How can I connect with them?

So if I have a meaningful post around relationality, for example,

and yeah, how can I share that with people who value relationality

and connect with those, um, people or those organizations?

So it help me to form.

Uh, I would say a vast network that I can draw inspiration from and possibly,

uh, look for collaborations with.

So for me, when I think of social media, it's not just a one-way thing.

Uh, it's, it's a, there's multiplicity in the ways that you can use a

platform that not just benefits you, but also benefits others.

And at the same time, uh, helps you deepen in the work that you're doing.

So for me, just having those networks, um, uh, easy to reach, which we cannot,

you know, we can't, which we cannot have if we don't have these platforms

or it would be difficult either.

You know, cold call calling is not a practice anymore this

day, that's next week's webinar,

cold calling is a thing.

It's just done by bots rather than people these days.

There you go.

But yeah, for me that, that is also going back to what you shared Carlos,

in terms of why are you, um, looking at using social media in the first place.

So for me it has been to expand my circle of connections.

Um, has also been one of my intentions around it, and I would say I've been

blessed with the, the, the type of people that I've been connecting

with for the past few years, mainly because it, social media made it

easier for me to reach these people.

And by reaching meaning, since I have an opinion about the topics that they

care about, it's easy for me to share, Hey, this might be something that

you might be interested in as well.

All right.

We're we time's up?

Um, let's go round.

Final thoughts that you'd like to leave, leave people with, um, whether

that's about being unclear and posting on social media or anything that you

saw within the chat that you wanted to tackle or something completely random.

Yeah, for me, I think there's something about seeing beyond just

the algorithm and just the platforms and just seeing it as a way to, be

the best version of ourselves really.

So building better habits, you know, getting in the habit of writing,

getting in the habit of sharing, building our confidence, hopefully

through that clarity that we get and the connection we get from it.

Um, and also building a body of work.

Like I've taken some of the stuff I've written, turned it into

eBooks and Help refer people to it later if they're stuck.

So yeah, seeing the evergreen nature of some of this stuff, rather than just

the short term, oh, did I get loads of likes and move on to the next day, but

actually, whatcha you building that you can lean upon maybe years later?

I love that approach, Lawrence, because that, that has been my main

goal in terms of why am I documenting these things in the first place.

When I started it was with the notion of I'd want my kids to remember me and, you

know, future ans yeah, future grandkids or what to have an understanding

of who, who is that person.

Um, but aside from that, for me, I approach social media as you

know, as a tool for connection.

And it, it can really be a powerful place to meet others that, uh, you

know, that you resonate with, uh, um, meet your, you know, your inspirations.

Um, so for me it's to, to see it as that, as a tool where you

can connect deeply with others.

I believe in, the benefit of just regular practice.

Um, and so if you are unclear, I would suggest just find a process that

you can just commit to for a while.

Uh, and I was just looking at, um, what Marissa was saying is that,

uh, when she encounters doubt, which sometimes shows up, it throws her off

course and she's in this consistent.

what helps me and I wanna do more is to be part of a group.

uh, and I know that, um, Vanessa Below who we know who's part of a

writing group, and I get a lot of energy as well going with LHL, they

have a creative breakfast where you can just spend some time talking

out your thoughts and ideas and then using that well, for me as energy to

then, ah, I wanna write about that.

So just a way of like this, uh, a accountability, but

b of just getting out of.

My head and just articulating in words at least spoken, to get

started and to have that as a regular point every Monday morning,

getting on a call with five other people, 20 minutes, bam, bam, bam.

Have a good conversation and then go and write.

And we do have write out in the community as well.

That's, that kind of contributes that, but that's actual writing.

I think, you know, just getting unstuck from, what do I write today?

It's like, no.

Committing to it with a bunch of people.

I, I feel that's a way forward.

Okay.

Thank you everyone.

Uh, I hope that is helpful and useful.

If not, say nothing.

If it was, say something,

we need a question for next week as well, not one on cold calling.

Uh, yeah.

If you do have a question you'd like us to tackle and you'd like to join us.

Next time round, please, please say so.

And um, and please share the link to this with anyone you

think would find helpful and also share it on social media.

There you go.