Wendy Green:

And hello, welcome to Hey Boomer.

Wendy Green:

The show for those of us who believe that we are never too old to set a new goal or dream

Wendy Green:

a new dream. My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey, Boomer.

Wendy Green:

And today we're going to talk about the idea that building a business is hard, but leaving

Wendy Green:

a business is harder.

Wendy Green:

And I wanted to tell you a little bit about the business I had before I moved here to

Wendy Green:

South Carolina, and the business was called KidzArt.

Wendy Green:

It was a franchise and it was an amazing business for the kids.

Wendy Green:

They loved it and we taught them to use art materials that in elementary school that they

Wendy Green:

would never have seen until they got to high school.

Wendy Green:

We taught them that there are no mistakes, that they can correct things that they think

Wendy Green:

they did wrong.

Wendy Green:

So it was a real confidence building program and the kids loved it and the parents loved

Wendy Green:

it and the teachers loved it and I loved it.

Wendy Green:

In fact, we even won Franchisee of the Year award in Loudoun County, Virginia, in 2009.

Wendy Green:

The problem was.

Wendy Green:

The business would not make a profit.

Wendy Green:

I talked to my bankers, I talked to the accountants, I talked to the franchise.

Wendy Green:

And just the pieces were not working together to turn a profit.

Wendy Green:

And finally I decided I was going to have to sell the business.

Wendy Green:

I had to sell it for a loss.

Wendy Green:

It wasn't making a profit.

Wendy Green:

And there was a huge sense of disappointment.

Wendy Green:

Because I loved it and the kids loved it.

Wendy Green:

And I was like, the KidzArt lady.

Wendy Green:

So there was a loss of recognition.

Wendy Green:

There was a loss of who am I now?

Wendy Green:

What am I going to do?

Wendy Green:

You know, I didn't want to have to go back into corporate, although I did for a while.

Wendy Green:

And that is also when I got certified to be a life coach.

Wendy Green:

So that I didn't have to stay in corporate.

Wendy Green:

But but leaving a business behind that you you know, that you've put your heart and soul

Wendy Green:

into is really hard.

Wendy Green:

And so I started to talk to some other friends of mine who have been business owners

Wendy Green:

to find out what their feelings were about leaving or selling their business.

Wendy Green:

And my former boss, his biggest disappointment was when he had to sell his

Wendy Green:

last business to a venture capital company.

Wendy Green:

Because he said the decision the board made was about the money and not about the people

Wendy Green:

and the culture we had built.

Wendy Green:

So that was a real disappointment to him.

Wendy Green:

But he also said as a small business owner, the relationships he built were important to

Wendy Green:

him and so many of them he has managed to maintain over the years.

Wendy Green:

Like, I still have a relationship with him.

Wendy Green:

He still has relationships with many of the people, both professional and personal,

Wendy Green:

because that was a big part of who he was when he built his business.

Wendy Green:

I also have friends that thought they were going to leave their business.

Wendy Green:

They were ready to retire.

Wendy Green:

But then when the, you know, rubber hit the road, as they say, they were like, whoa, I

Wendy Green:

don't know that I'm really, really ready.

Wendy Green:

And so there was this pull back, Well, I'll just do this part of my business now.

Wendy Green:

So I think all of those things are things that we can talk about with my guest this

Wendy Green:

week, Julie Noonan, and I will bring her on shortly.

Wendy Green:

But I just want to remind you of a couple of things.

Wendy Green:

First of all, next Tuesday, May the 16th is the next boomer Banter.

Wendy Green:

That will be our fifth Boomer Banter.

Wendy Green:

And that is where we get together as a virtual community and we have fun and we

Wendy Green:

share stories and we connect.

Wendy Green:

Have a glass of wine together and and share and learn from each other.

Wendy Green:

We've talked about things like fear versus bravery.

Wendy Green:

We've talked about friendship.

Wendy Green:

We've talked about humor.

Wendy Green:

We've talked about celebration.

Wendy Green:

This next Tuesday, we'll be talking about lifelong learning, but

Wendy Green:

really more in the respect of what are we still learning about ourselves as we're

Wendy Green:

aging? You know, are we learning new things about ourselves and new ideas and things that

Wendy Green:

we want to try?

Wendy Green:

If you'd like to sign up for the Banter, you can either go to the website, HeyBoomer.biz,

Wendy Green:

or you can drop me an email and I will send you the link so that you can try it out

Wendy Green:

before you decide if this is something you really want to commit to.

Wendy Green:

So you can email me at Wendy@heyboomer.biz.

Wendy Green:

I also want to remind you that the Hey Boomer podcast is brought to you with such

Wendy Green:

love and compassion and energy, and it really does take a lot to get the great

Wendy Green:

guests that we have and to put together the shows.

Wendy Green:

To run the banter, to write the blogs, to put them all out, to podcast, all of that.

Wendy Green:

So now you have a part in helping me grow this, and that is, I want you to share this

Wendy Green:

episode with a friend that you think would love the show or and would benefit from the

Wendy Green:

show. If you're listening live, you can just tag them in the comments and that will share

Wendy Green:

to them right away if you are listening on a podcast.

Wendy Green:

Please go in and review.

Wendy Green:

Put a five star review would be great and then share it to your friends.

Wendy Green:

So those of you on the call live now, please go do that.

Wendy Green:

Now before you forget, share this tag.

Wendy Green:

Somebody share it with a friend.

Wendy Green:

Thank you so much.

Wendy Green:

Let me bring Julie on and do a brief introduction.

Wendy Green:

Hello, Julie.

Julie Noonan:

Hi, Wendy. Thank you so much for having me.

Julie Noonan:

I really am excited about this discussion we're going to have.

Wendy Green:

I'm excited, too.

Wendy Green:

And I'm excited also because Julie is also a coach and went through the same program I

Wendy Green:

went through. So. Yes, I know.

Wendy Green:

So. So Julie has spent most of her professional career leading executives and

Wendy Green:

organizations through change initiatives.

Wendy Green:

She has years of executive level experience and consulting in both public and private

Wendy Green:

sector, as well as experience as a corporate employee.

Wendy Green:

She has spent her career coaching leaders at all levels in many industries through many

Wendy Green:

challenges, both professional and personal.

Wendy Green:

Julie used the failures and successes of more than 30 years of change implementations,

Wendy Green:

and from watching her clients struggle through COVID, deal with multigenerational

Wendy Green:

values, clashes and be overwhelmed by technology to develop a coaching method she

Wendy Green:

calls RIDE the Ride method helps mid and late career leaders who want to remain

Wendy Green:

relevant in this ever changing business climate.

Wendy Green:

Julie believes in unapologetic authenticity, candor, integrity and humor.

Wendy Green:

She will tell you the truth, even if it stings.

Wendy Green:

Ouch. That's what a good coach does.

Wendy Green:

Well, welcome to the show, Julie, and we so appreciate the insights you're going to give

Wendy Green:

us on this topic.

Julie Noonan:

Thanks, Wendy.

Wendy Green:

Before we get started, though, just give me a brief background of of your history and how

Wendy Green:

you went from organizational change into coaching executives.

Julie Noonan:

Excellent. Well, thank you.

Julie Noonan:

Um, actually, I started out as an English major, which was is kind of an interesting,

Julie Noonan:

uh, interesting view of the world.

Julie Noonan:

What I figured out early on is why I loved English literature so much is because the

Julie Noonan:

stories that I loved so much is really just watching people deal with changes, deal with,

Julie Noonan:

you know, the plot twists in their lives.

Julie Noonan:

And when I got to corporate America, what I figured out was I really loved watching

Julie Noonan:

people do the same exact things in real life that they did in my stories.

Julie Noonan:

And I loved being able to help them through some of those changes and help them through

Julie Noonan:

the hard things that they had to go through.

Julie Noonan:

I loved watching the politics play out.

Julie Noonan:

I loved watching the interactions that they had with each other.

Julie Noonan:

I loved watching leaders both fail and succeed and helping helping them help their

Julie Noonan:

people. And so when I got on to some of these large change projects, I found myself

Julie Noonan:

as part of becoming change management certified, being expected to coach these

Julie Noonan:

sponsors of these big change projects.

Julie Noonan:

And they were very uncomfortable, you know, sponsoring these big changes that were going

Julie Noonan:

to be, in some cases very unpopular is not something that that a lot of people, you

Julie Noonan:

know, get get up in the morning and say, oh, let me go in and rock somebody's world.

Julie Noonan:

You know, let me go in and tell them they're going to have to do something different and

Julie Noonan:

they're not going to like it.

Julie Noonan:

Most people don't get up in the morning and really want to go do that.

Julie Noonan:

And so my job a lot of times was really not necessarily about the people that were being

Julie Noonan:

impacted as much as it was about coaching the people who who sometimes had not made

Julie Noonan:

that decision but had to stand behind that decision.

Julie Noonan:

And help their people.

Julie Noonan:

First help themselves and then help their people through those decisions.

Julie Noonan:

So the longer I did that, the more I figured I really enjoyed that part of it.

Julie Noonan:

Um, I enjoyed helping those leaders dig down deep into themselves and discover new

Julie Noonan:

things about themselves, discover new ways to look at themselves.

Julie Noonan:

And that led then into the coaching and and becoming certified as an executive coach.

Wendy Green:

So, so many of the people that are topics we're going to talk about today are focused

Wendy Green:

on endings. Right.

Wendy Green:

The ending of a career, whether it's through retirement or sales.

Wendy Green:

And there's a lot of emotions that come out in that.

Wendy Green:

In fact, you talked to me about emotional fallout.

Wendy Green:

Would you say more about that?

Julie Noonan:

Well, anytime there's an ending, what I like to do is also look at it as a beginning.

Julie Noonan:

I think, you know.

Julie Noonan:

Our whole definition of retirement, particularly in the last 3 or 4 years with

Julie Noonan:

COVID and the increase in the speed of technology.

Julie Noonan:

Our whole definition of retirement has changed.

Julie Noonan:

Um, for numerous reasons.

Julie Noonan:

One reason is I don't know about your retirement accounts, but, you know, even last

Julie Noonan:

week when the banks, you know, here we go again, the banks crashed.

Julie Noonan:

Um, you know, I'm looking at my retirement account, and I don't know about you, but.

Julie Noonan:

Dang.

Wendy Green:

Not where it was, is it?

Wendy Green:

You know.

Julie Noonan:

I'm not looking forward to trying to live off of that and Social Security.

Julie Noonan:

But a lot of folks are not looking forward to a typical retirement either because they

Julie Noonan:

can't really afford it or they don't want to play golf 24 by seven or whatever the case

Julie Noonan:

may be. Or they're very much more interested in continuing to grow, continuing to learn to

Julie Noonan:

continuing to contribute.

Julie Noonan:

And we're living a lot longer than we did even 20, 30 years ago.

Julie Noonan:

People are just not done in their mid 60s anymore.

Julie Noonan:

They're just not.

Julie Noonan:

They have a lot more energy.

Julie Noonan:

They want to continue to to contribute.

Julie Noonan:

And so this this expectation ocean that you're ready to leave the workforce or you're

Julie Noonan:

ready to be quote unquote done right out to pasture, take your gold watch and and head

Julie Noonan:

out. That expectation is not there anymore.

Julie Noonan:

And so particularly if you have birthed a business, you know.

Julie Noonan:

Your your identity sometimes gets wrapped up in your career or in that business that

Julie Noonan:

you've birthed.

Julie Noonan:

And many times.

Julie Noonan:

You aren't really ready to let it go?

Wendy Green:

Yeah, I think I think on some levels the expectation by society is still there.

Wendy Green:

Right? You're 65.

Wendy Green:

When are you retiring?

Wendy Green:

Come on. Already. You know, retire.

Wendy Green:

Right. Which I think hits a lot of owners hard and a lot of executives hard because

Wendy Green:

they're like, but I'm not ready.

Wendy Green:

I still have my best work to do or, you know, or I'm going to feel irrelevant.

Wendy Green:

No one's going to need me anymore.

Wendy Green:

I mean, how do you deal with that when society is saying, do it and you're saying, I

Wendy Green:

don't want to do it?

Wendy Green:

Well.

Julie Noonan:

Yes, exactly.

Julie Noonan:

I'm finding when I'm talking with a lot of my clients, they're feeling they will never

Julie Noonan:

say this out loud.

Julie Noonan:

That's the number one thing.

Julie Noonan:

But they're feeling terrified of becoming obsolete because things are changing so

Julie Noonan:

fast. Um, the language has changed almost around them.

Julie Noonan:

And they have forgotten that they don't need to know everything.

Julie Noonan:

They have, you know, they see the Wall Street Journal articles coming out and all of

Julie Noonan:

a sudden they're not understanding the language.

Julie Noonan:

You know, the, the all of the new marketing metrics that are coming out, social media

Julie Noonan:

influencers, yada, yada, yada, yada, how to, how to engage with a particular demographic.

Julie Noonan:

They don't really understand that anymore.

Julie Noonan:

And even one of my clients actually said, you know, when I started 40 years ago

Julie Noonan:

I engineered my product.

Julie Noonan:

I touched my product.

Julie Noonan:

I was fully 100,000,000% in charge of the quality of my product.

Julie Noonan:

Now, I don't even see my product.

Julie Noonan:

Not only that.

Julie Noonan:

I can't look at the metrics of my sales and even know if I'm doing a good job because

Julie Noonan:

it's all sold on the Internet.

Julie Noonan:

Oh, it's all Sold with influencers.

Julie Noonan:

Who are these people?

Julie Noonan:

You know, My Successors are the ones that are gathered around the table looking at who

Julie Noonan:

should we who should we engage that will speak to this new demographic that we're

Julie Noonan:

selling to?

Julie Noonan:

He said, I don't know who these people are.

Julie Noonan:

I have I have my Rolodex and my, you know, my network that used to be the successors

Julie Noonan:

that I played golf with and that I met at the trade shows in person.

Julie Noonan:

Now, there's a whole a whole nother generation that they have never met, but they

Julie Noonan:

know. Who are, you know, the influencers on the Internet.

Wendy Green:

So that is a whole Other Issue of how do you get the the senior leaders to

Wendy Green:

learn how to play with the up and coming leaders.

Wendy Green:

Yes. So that it's a win win all the way around.

Wendy Green:

How do you do that?

Julie Noonan:

Well, one of the things that I do is sometimes I will set up one on one reverse

Julie Noonan:

mentoring situations where we actually start with let's talk about our our mutual values

Julie Noonan:

to start with.

Julie Noonan:

Because sometimes what I find is that generalizations get in the way, like the

Julie Noonan:

younger generations will generalize that the older generations are the older generations

Julie Noonan:

are stuck in their old ways of doing things that they can't change, that, you know,

Julie Noonan:

they're inflexible, that they'll never give up power.

Julie Noonan:

Okay. Some of that might be true, right?

Julie Noonan:

The older generation generations will turn around and say, well, the younger generations

Julie Noonan:

don't want to work.

Julie Noonan:

They're lazy.

Julie Noonan:

They don't value, you know, the hard work.

Julie Noonan:

They they won't give over and above.

Julie Noonan:

They won't quit.

Julie Noonan:

They whatever, whatever, whatever.

Julie Noonan:

Well, some of that might be true.

Julie Noonan:

Right. But the vast majority, if you if you actually do a Barrett values assessment and

Julie Noonan:

put have both of them take the same exact assessment, what you'll find is nine times

Julie Noonan:

out of ten, they have more in common at the baseline values level that they can build

Julie Noonan:

upon than they have separate that they have different than each other.

Julie Noonan:

What you'll find at the very bottom is they.

Julie Noonan:

Typically will have some values around quality of life, work life balance, some

Julie Noonan:

level of need for power and recognition.

Julie Noonan:

Who doesn't want that?

Julie Noonan:

That's a human need, some level of need for security.

Julie Noonan:

Some level of need for doing a good job.

Julie Noonan:

Et cetera.

Julie Noonan:

And you can build on that.

Julie Noonan:

And then you open it up to, Hey.

Julie Noonan:

Younger generation person.

Julie Noonan:

What what is it that you would like to do next in your career?

Julie Noonan:

Okay. Older generation person.

Julie Noonan:

What would you like to leave as your legacy?

Julie Noonan:

Because it's not going to be what you already built.

Julie Noonan:

It's going to be something better.

Julie Noonan:

It's going to be, What is your contribution to what this younger generation is building

Julie Noonan:

now? You already did your thing.

Julie Noonan:

How are you going to contribute to what they're doing now?

Wendy Green:

Because that's that's where it gets tough, though, Julie.

Wendy Green:

The legacy because.

Wendy Green:

You built it, right?

Wendy Green:

You built it.

Wendy Green:

You have your heart and soul in it, and they're changing it, right?

Wendy Green:

And you're like, wait a minute.

Wendy Green:

And then, you know, if you're if you're aware enough, you're looking around and

Wendy Green:

going, yeah, well, you know, here are all the companies on the garbage heap.

Wendy Green:

That didn't change.

Wendy Green:

So. Exactly.

Wendy Green:

Does have to change.

Wendy Green:

But wow, it's so hard to see it changing before your eyes.

Julie Noonan:

Well, you know Bottom line is, do you want to have a ghost town or do you want to have a

Julie Noonan:

metropolis?

Wendy Green:

Yeah, right.

Julie Noonan:

So if you built it and you don't allow, don't allow the next generation to to move in and

Julie Noonan:

continue to grow, you're going to wind up with a ghost town.

Wendy Green:

Mhm. Or they're not going to speak to you and then you will be irrelevant.

Julie Noonan:

Exactly. Exactly.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. So how do you know when it's time to say, okay, I'm ready, my successor.

Wendy Green:

I'm ready for you to move in or I'm ready to back off.

Wendy Green:

How do you know?

Julie Noonan:

I think every Single person that I could ask, every single one of my clients who have, you

Julie Noonan:

know, who have relinquished and moved on to their next thing and each one would tell you

Julie Noonan:

a different a different trigger.

Julie Noonan:

If I Were to generalize across them, the number one thing that I would say is they had

Julie Noonan:

something to go to.

Wendy Green:

Oh, really?

Julie Noonan:

Yes, they Had. They had found their next passion.

Julie Noonan:

They had found their next purpose.

Julie Noonan:

They had found their next step.

Julie Noonan:

And that's one of the things that I work on with people when they come to me with this

Julie Noonan:

dilemma. There is there comes a time when there is a tug.

Julie Noonan:

There's a tug.

Julie Noonan:

Whether it's, um, I feel like that I want to walk away.

Julie Noonan:

I'm tired or I feel like I'm ready for something new.

Julie Noonan:

There's some sort of tug that's coming from within them.

Julie Noonan:

Not that they're being forced.

Julie Noonan:

As soon as someone is being forced, then they're going to fight it no matter what.

Julie Noonan:

Right now, do I have clients That are being forced out?

Julie Noonan:

Yes. That's a whole different that's a whole different discussion.

Julie Noonan:

And I do have some of those.

Julie Noonan:

That's when I will step in and we'll discuss what is the next most right step for them.

Julie Noonan:

But it's a different discussion than the ones where people are making that choice

Julie Noonan:

themselves based on they're feeling the tug from within themselves.

Julie Noonan:

When they do feel the tug from within themselves, we explore.

Julie Noonan:

The sky's the limit.

Julie Noonan:

Let's just. Let's just blue sky it.

Julie Noonan:

Let's just talk about.

Julie Noonan:

If the sky was the limit.

Julie Noonan:

What do you want to do?

Julie Noonan:

A lot of people start out by saying, I have no idea.

Julie Noonan:

I can tell you what I don't want to do.

Julie Noonan:

So we start there.

Julie Noonan:

I had one client who said, I know what I don't want to do.

Julie Noonan:

I don't want to follow her around all the time, meaning his spouse, because she she has

Julie Noonan:

a lot of interests, a lot of hobbies.

Julie Noonan:

And he his worst nightmare and this is nothing about her, but his worst nightmare

Julie Noonan:

was having her eat up his his life.

Julie Noonan:

Right. And so he wanted to have something that was also his that she could participate

Julie Noonan:

in as opposed to him always Participating in her life.

Julie Noonan:

So, you know.

Julie Noonan:

Yeah. So they could share equally.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

I know when I'm coaching people that are moving into retirement, I take them through

Wendy Green:

this thing and in the middle is the neutral zone.

Wendy Green:

And that's kind of your blue sky.

Wendy Green:

Like, you know, like you don't really know.

Wendy Green:

It's. It's a time to be okay with not knowing.

Wendy Green:

Be okay in that discomfort.

Wendy Green:

Sure. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

So you you play with that with your clients, too.

Julie Noonan:

Absolutely. And and the other thing, too, is exploring if they're feeling some sort of

Julie Noonan:

pressure, where is that coming from?

Julie Noonan:

Because sometimes just knowing where that pressure is coming from.

Julie Noonan:

Tells them a lot about themselves especially if it's coming from within themselves.

Julie Noonan:

If they are a lot of times, if they are a hard driving A-type personality and they have

Julie Noonan:

run their lives, you know, from the womb, everything has been scheduled and planned.

Julie Noonan:

And, you know.

Julie Noonan:

And they're not used to not knowing what the next step is.

Julie Noonan:

Giving them permission to not know.

Julie Noonan:

As you just mentioned, sometimes.

Julie Noonan:

That's the best thing that we can do.

Julie Noonan:

Allow them to be uncomfortable, as a matter of Fact, almost.

Julie Noonan:

Force them to be uncomfortable.

Wendy Green:

Something to that, I think.

Wendy Green:

Yes. And that's where they start to, you know, put their toe in the water and try

Wendy Green:

different things. And that water is too cold.

Wendy Green:

I don't like that. Right.

Julie Noonan:

Because growth requires.

Julie Noonan:

Discomfort.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. So a lot of people, I think, also are afraid of retiring or closing a business

Wendy Green:

because of.

Wendy Green:

I'm too old.

Wendy Green:

I'm too old to do anything else.

Wendy Green:

And society is also saying you're too old.

Wendy Green:

You know, this whole ageism bias that's around.

Wendy Green:

So how do you address that?

Julie Noonan:

Boy, Um.

Julie Noonan:

I talk a lot about ageism because of my own personal situation I experienced.

Julie Noonan:

I've experienced it a lot.

Julie Noonan:

I was laid off at 55 and then again at 57.

Julie Noonan:

So I talk a lot about ageism and it is very real.

Julie Noonan:

Very, very real.

Julie Noonan:

The how I personally deal with ageism with folks is basically to say it.

Julie Noonan:

If you believe it, they will see it.

Julie Noonan:

If you believe it, they will see it.

Julie Noonan:

It's just like if you come across as timid, they will see timid.

Julie Noonan:

If you come across as weak, they will see weak.

Julie Noonan:

There is an excuse me.

Julie Noonan:

There is nothing that you can do.

Julie Noonan:

Personally to change someone else's ageism opinion.

Julie Noonan:

You can only control what what you put out there.

Julie Noonan:

To combat ageism in your own self.

Julie Noonan:

Continue to learn.

Julie Noonan:

Do not panic.

Julie Noonan:

Continue to remain agile and open.

Julie Noonan:

As soon as you close yourself off from learning, as soon as you close yourself off

Julie Noonan:

from new ideas.

Julie Noonan:

That is when I believe you live up to the stereotypes of ageism.

Julie Noonan:

Because as soon as you become the stereotype, you give them the ammunition that they need

Julie Noonan:

to, um to shoot with with.

Julie Noonan:

The ageism argument.

Julie Noonan:

I don't believe in ageism.

Julie Noonan:

As. A discriminatory factor.

Julie Noonan:

I think that organizations.

Julie Noonan:

Who overlook the value that people over 55 bring, particularly since there are

Julie Noonan:

not enough.

Julie Noonan:

In the population.

Julie Noonan:

Proven there are not.

Julie Noonan:

Enough in the population to make up for the numbers of people who have left and are

Julie Noonan:

continuing to leave the.

Julie Noonan:

The working force.

Julie Noonan:

Demographically, there are not enough people to take the number of jobs that we will have

Julie Noonan:

available over the next several years if they're not taking advantage of the wisdom of

Julie Noonan:

the experience that we bring.

Julie Noonan:

They're overlooking a boon.

Julie Noonan:

They're really a boon.

Julie Noonan:

Well, of.

Wendy Green:

Of Course, I of course I agree with that.

Wendy Green:

And I think that, you know, sometimes we see what we're looking for.

Wendy Green:

Right. So as to your point, if we're not looking to be treated as too old, although it

Wendy Green:

is out there and it is very real, I mean, like you, you are presenting yourself as a

Wendy Green:

consultant with you're not shying away from with 30 years of experience.

Wendy Green:

And so people are like, okay, so she's at least 60, you know?

Wendy Green:

Um, and are you finding pushback when you do that?

Julie Noonan:

When I was looking for a corporate job.

Julie Noonan:

Yes. When I started my own business and.

Julie Noonan:

was looking for consulting clients and coaching clients.

Julie Noonan:

No.

Wendy Green:

Isn't that interesting?

Wendy Green:

And what do you think is the difference?

Julie Noonan:

I think the difference wWas when I started going out On my own.

Julie Noonan:

My confidence was higher.

Julie Noonan:

I wasn't asking them for a job.

Julie Noonan:

I was. I was presenting myself as someone who could who had value.

Julie Noonan:

That could solve a problem for them.

Julie Noonan:

Yeah, it was totally in the presentation.

Wendy Green:

And it was in the way you felt about yourself.

Wendy Green:

You were the expert.

Wendy Green:

You had the confidence.

Wendy Green:

Yes. They didn't have to.

Julie Noonan:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Julie Noonan:

Another thing I think that, that, um that our generation could do is, and that corporations

Julie Noonan:

could consider is that, hey, you know.

Julie Noonan:

Maybe I don't want a full time job.

Julie Noonan:

You know, that's the other thing.

Julie Noonan:

Maybe, you know.

Julie Noonan:

I mean, I don't want to deal with the politics or maybe I don't want to go back

Julie Noonan:

into corporate America.

Julie Noonan:

I don't want to be an SVP or a president or a CEO.

Julie Noonan:

Been there, done that, for crying out loud.

Julie Noonan:

I don't want to have a staff of 8000 people or what.

Julie Noonan:

I've done all of that.

Julie Noonan:

But I want to have a hand in.

Julie Noonan:

I want to have a foot in.

Julie Noonan:

I want to continue to offer my expertise.

Julie Noonan:

Well, why can't I be an advisor within a company?

Speaker3:

Why can't I have a part time role?

Speaker3:

Why can't I do an advisory position, you know, 15, 20 hours a week?

Speaker3:

I don't have to have my own company for that.

Wendy Green:

These companies like an internal consultant.

Speaker3:

Sure, these companies could easily staff.

Julie Noonan:

What a game changer.

Julie Noonan:

You don't have to offer me benefits even.

Speaker3:

Right.

Julie Noonan:

So where are.

Speaker3:

You? You should know about this.

Julie Noonan:

And? And sure, you would.

Julie Noonan:

You would have to pay, you know, a definitely have to pay some some nice

Julie Noonan:

incentive. But the value that you would get would be phenomenal.

Julie Noonan:

You don't have to onboard these people like you would, you know, a less experienced

Julie Noonan:

person before you would get value out of these guys and gals.

Wendy Green:

And and Anne just reiterated the point that we made in the comments here.

Wendy Green:

She says the consultant is valued for their experience and wisdom, whereas an employee

Wendy Green:

they, you know, they feel like they have to fit in, they have to make them on board, they

Wendy Green:

have to give them the benefits.

Wendy Green:

And, and then, you know, a consultant is a short term project driven thing, right?

Wendy Green:

And and I've heard a lot of people say, well, you know, if we hire somebody who's 65,

Wendy Green:

they're going to leave in a few years anyway.

Wendy Green:

Well, so what?

Wendy Green:

Right. You get you get the benefit of the time that they're there.

Wendy Green:

Plus, if you look at the trends in the Gen Z and Gen X, they leave after a few years also.

Julie Noonan:

Right? Guess what?

Julie Noonan:

Guess we're thinking we're we're thinking about retention entirely we are so old model

Julie Noonan:

with retention these days.

Julie Noonan:

What we should be doing is saying, okay.

Julie Noonan:

How can we reduce, reduce the cCost of bringing On board finding And onboarding

Julie Noonan:

people. We should be looking at how do we reduce that?

Julie Noonan:

Not, you know.

Julie Noonan:

So what if it's a fact that people are going to come in and spend 3 to 5 years with us?

Wendy Green:

It's the way it is now.

Wendy Green:

That's right. And they don't have pensions, so there's no incentive for them to stay for

Wendy Green:

30 years like we used to do.

Julie Noonan:

What we should be. What we should really and truly should be focused on is how do we get

Julie Noonan:

the bBest out of the workforce that we have in those 3 to 5 years.

Julie Noonan:

And the ones that that we absolutely have absolutely got to keep?

Julie Noonan:

What do we do to keep them there?

Julie Noonan:

What do we do to keep them growing?

Julie Noonan:

Quit spreading stuff around like peanut butter.

Julie Noonan:

Let's truly identify those ones that we really, really, really want to have and keep

Julie Noonan:

them. You know?

Julie Noonan:

Yeah, Yeah.

Wendy Green:

I can hear your passion.

Wendy Green:

Wow. I mean.

Julie Noonan:

I'm a radical HR person from way back.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, but your passion is great.

Wendy Green:

And you started this whole conversation by telling me, you know, that you love working

Wendy Green:

with the leaders and you love the politics and you love that.

Wendy Green:

And I'm like, You love the politics.

Julie Noonan:

So I love Turning things upside down.

Julie Noonan:

I love I'm a red team thinker.

Julie Noonan:

I'm a I am a I like to challenge the status quo.

Julie Noonan:

I like to. And it's not because I like to be contrarian.

Julie Noonan:

I don't like to start fights.

Julie Noonan:

But I do like to say, hey, have we turned that upside down and considered it considered

Julie Noonan:

it a different way?

Julie Noonan:

What is the absolute, very worst thing that could happen now?

Julie Noonan:

Let's back up from that.

Julie Noonan:

Did anybody die?

Julie Noonan:

No, don't ask that in health care.

Julie Noonan:

But, you know, did anybody die?

Julie Noonan:

Okay. If not, let's back Up from that.

Julie Noonan:

Let's back up from that.

Julie Noonan:

And it's amazing what people.

Julie Noonan:

Can come up with.

Julie Noonan:

And we just need to. We need to trust.

Julie Noonan:

We need to trust every.

Julie Noonan:

Generation and.

Julie Noonan:

Every. Perspective.

Julie Noonan:

That if we listen to all of them, the best ones will come up.

Julie Noonan:

They will. And and if we put them all together.

Julie Noonan:

The blended.

Julie Noonan:

The blended solution is usually the best one.

Julie Noonan:

Yeah.

Wendy Green:

And it's and it's the most fun.

Wendy Green:

At the end of the day, it's the most fun because now everybody is excited about it.

Julie Noonan:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Julie Noonan:

And it makes change management so much easier.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, I did that once too.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Oh man, no, we had some similar paths.

Wendy Green:

So tell me, um, 2 or 3 takeaways that you would leave with people that are either

Wendy Green:

getting ready to retire from a long career or that are looking to move out of a business

Wendy Green:

that they built.

Wendy Green:

What are 2 or 3 things that they need to start thinking about now?

Speaker3:

Number one. Get curious.

Speaker3:

Just get curious.

Speaker3:

This world is so big and there are so many things to learn.

Speaker3:

And and experience.

Speaker3:

If you think that your business is all there is.

Speaker3:

Think about how much else there is in the world.

Speaker3:

And the more you learn, the More you can turn around and add to your business that You can

Speaker3:

turn around and make a whole new business.

Julie Noonan:

Nobody says just because you birthed one business doesn't mean you can't birth another

Julie Noonan:

one.

Wendy Green:

Oh, true. I've seen lots of people do that.

Speaker3:

It's not like you're a Woman.

Speaker3:

That, you know, you go through the thing and you can't have another baby.

Julie Noonan:

You can have as many companies as you have the energy to build, particularly in this day

Julie Noonan:

and age. With the Internet your business creation capability is unlimited.

Julie Noonan:

So if that's something that you want to do, stay open to it, get curious about it,

Julie Noonan:

partner with a New You know, a new generation.

Julie Noonan:

And teach them business while they teach you the new You know, Internet and the new way to

Julie Noonan:

reach out to new demographics and social media.

Julie Noonan:

And Artificial Intelligence.

Julie Noonan:

So stay curious.

Julie Noonan:

Yeah, that's a big one.

Julie Noonan:

Look for.

Julie Noonan:

Look for things that you don't understand and find somebody that can explain them to you.

Julie Noonan:

And just.

Julie Noonan:

See what comes up.

Julie Noonan:

That that you can get fun and excited about See what you can get excited about.

Speaker3:

Absolutely.

Julie Noonan:

Well, then go to the banter.

Julie Noonan:

You might hear something you like.

Wendy Green:

That's right.

Wendy Green:

Join the boomer banter.

Wendy Green:

Especially next week.

Julie Noonan:

You're doing what? Lifelong learning.

Julie Noonan:

There you go.

Wendy Green:

I know it's the perfect one to go to.

Wendy Green:

Exactly..

Julie Noonan:

Of there are tons of opportunities right now to get involved in groups like like, Hey,

Julie Noonan:

Boomer, that where you can meet people all over the world.

Julie Noonan:

And these are relationships that we in the past would never have had the opportunity to

Julie Noonan:

have.So take advantage.

Julie Noonan:

Take advantage of those.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Relationships, networking, whether we're networking online or not.

Wendy Green:

Right. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

Julie Yeah.

Wendy Green:

Thank you. Thank you.

Wendy Green:

Thank you. This has been such a fun conversation.

Wendy Green:

I'm sorry we have to end.

Julie Noonan:

I know I can go on.

Wendy Green:

So if you want to reach out to Julie, you can email her at Julie@JNoonan

Wendy Green:

consulting.com. Or you can check out her website which is

Wendy Green:

JNoonanconsulting.com. And you can learn more about the kinds of things that she does.

Wendy Green:

We didn't even talk about RIDE what that was.

Julie Noonan:

Oh that's Okay.

Wendy Green:

We can do that another time.

Julie Noonan:

Sounds good.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, But thank you so much for for being with us today.

Julie Noonan:

Thank you, Wendy. And thanks for thanks for the boomer community.

Julie Noonan:

I really appreciate it.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, well, it's fun.

Wendy Green:

We have fun. We do have fun.

Wendy Green:

And and if you want to join the boomer banter, as Julie suggested, you just drop me

Wendy Green:

an email, go to Wendy at Hey, Boomer Biz and I will add you to the Zoom link and you can

Wendy Green:

pop in and talk about lifelong learning with us.

Wendy Green:

So that would be fun.

Wendy Green:

Um, okay. And share.

Wendy Green:

Share this episode.

Wendy Green:

Share it. Share it. Share it.

Wendy Green:

So next week my guest is Dr.

Wendy Green:

Ellen Albertson, and she calls herself The Midlife Whisperer.

Wendy Green:

And I know she has a podcast called Rock Your Midlife.

Wendy Green:

So Dr.

Wendy Green:

Ellen is a psychologist, a registered dietitian, a board certified health and

Wendy Green:

wellness coach, a podcaster, a Reiki master and a self-compassion teacher.

Wendy Green:

And we are going to talk about self-compassion as your superpower.

Wendy Green:

So which is something that we probably all could be better at.

Wendy Green:

So I'd like to leave you with the belief to live with curiosity, as Julie said, live with

Wendy Green:

relevance and live with courage.

Wendy Green:

And remember that we are never too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.

Wendy Green:

My name is Wendy Green, and this is Ben.