You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family.

What a beautiful day for horses in the morning.

You are listening to the number one horse podcast in the world.

Here is your entertaining look at the horse world and the people in it.

Foreign.

This is Ashley Winch in Albuquerque.

New Mexico, and I'm Kat Gunther from White Lake, Michigan.

You're listening to the Quarter Horse Podcast.

Good morning, horse World.

You're listening to the Quarter Horse Podcast.

Where we explore the versatility of the.

World'S most popular breed of horse, the American quarter horse.

I am so excited about today's episode and our guests, we are kind of pivoting away.

I know usually you guys hear us covering different disciplines that quarter horses compete in because, you know, they could do anything.

So it was Cat's idea for today's episode to really focus on quarter horses from nose to tail and everything in between.

So we have a farrier joining us as well as a body worker who I think some of you might recognize.

Cat, tell me about your quarter horse, Teddy.

What was he built like?

He was your classic quarter horse.

He did not do great in halter.

I got him when he was 18, so he was kind of past his prime for that.

But senior halter, Senior senior halter, he actually won it one class one time.

And I think it's so funny.

I had like 19 horses, and he was maybe 19 at the time, so.

It was kind of.

He was elderly.

But no, he was built like a classic quarter horse, you know, the big booty, the big badonkadonk.

He never really had too many hoof issues.

Never really anything with navicular.

I just remember he was always very stiff, so I couldn't lunge him.

You know, we talk a lot about, like, the bodywork and everything, so I'm very excited to see what our guests have to say today.

My quarter horse, Boo, was.

Was very atypically built, and it's not like he had a famous lineage or anything like that.

But at most of our shows, I would have people come up and ask me, what breed is that horse?

And.

And I'd say a quarter horse, and nobody would believe me.

And he had a bit of a longer back than you'd typically see in quarter horses and a bit heavier of a face.

I want to say not so much the refined nose that I think more typical quarter horses have, but, you know, really, quarter horses, I think more than other breeds, have really a lot of differences across the breed because of what they do or what they're bred.

To do.

You know, I think when you look at, I don't know, let's say a Hanoverian, they're gonna fit into a mold, whereas a quarter horse, you're gonna have, you know, an off the track quarter horse is gonna look incredibly different than a hunt seat quarter horse or western pleasure quarter horse or a halter quarter horse.

And so it's an interesting conversation to have because within the breed there is such variation.

And I mean, personally, I think that's part of what makes them so great.

But we all know we're partial around here.

A little biased, but I agree with you.

It's.

It's fascinating how there's so many different types of builds of quarter horses.

With your quarter horse, did you do any specific, like, body work or shoeing or anything like that?

He never.

He had great feet.

We were lucky in that department.

We did do hawk injections when he was older.

We did eventing, jumping, and dressage.

So he was very active.

And so we did that as a preventative measure.

And, and he responded very well to that.

Otherwise, I mean, he just had a stiff neck and it was so muscular and he was handsome as heck, but my gosh, he was.

He could not bend left or right.

Our, our circle score is a dressage.

We're, we're.

I think like a 7 was the best we got.

There you go.

Did you ever try, like, magna wave therapy or anything?

You know, I haven't, and we've had a lot of, of like P.E.

i think it's P, E, M, F or, you know, this kind of therapy, experts on horses in the morning.

And I love hearing about it.

I think all these different therapies coming out are so interesting.

And our guest Heather will touch on, you know, the importance of making sure you're working with your veterinarian and, and, and having that team lined up so that we're all doing what's best for our horses.

But I'm just so excited today to talk about quarter horses, how they're built and how that affects, you know, what they do for us and, and how versatile they can really be.

So with that, let's jump into our first guest, Kyle.

Okay, Kyle, so I'm really excited to talk to you today.

I would love to know, how did you get started in being a farrier?

So honestly, I guess probably the biggest thing for me was I was kind of always around horses, you know, growing up, a little bit of rodeo stuff, my older brother, but primarily I was a welder for the longest time, and I was at working For a job, Honestly, at the one time, one of my 10 different jobs and I was just kind of bored with the job that I was at and I was always kind of like, you know what, I love working with horses.

I love working with metal.

Let's put the two together and have a go at it.

Obviously a bunch of my buddies there were team roping buddies and whatnot.

They're horseshoers also.

So I talked to my one friend and I said, you know, was kind of followed him around a little bit and you know, asked his advice of how to get started and he's like, if you can go to a school, go for as long as you can.

So I chose a school in West Virginia.

It's called Meredith Manor.

And I went there for their nine month program.

So the rest is history.

Wow.

So how long have you been doing this for?

So I guess this is my 13th year now.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's impressive.

So, okay, we, we talk about quarter horses on this podcast.

How many horses would you say?

Like, what's the comparison between quarter horses and non quarter horses you work on?

I guess right now it just swing pretty heavily the other, the other way.

I'm now probably about 60, 40 quarter horses and hunter jumpers.

Okay.

And then a little bit of mixture of some backyard stuff that I still do.

Okay.

But yeah, so probably about 60 is quarter horses.

Gotcha.

And what are some of the most common hoof issues you see in quarter horses?

Oh boy.

Probably just, I mean overall, I mean for, for being a quarter horse and the show horses that I do are basically thin walls.

A thin walled breed is what it's kind of turned into.

So I would say that, I mean as a whole, it's not like I see like navicular or any.

I mean that gets thrown around more common than it should.

But I mean just a general day to day of what I deal with.

And especially, yeah, I would say just a thin walled.

And what I guess you could also say like an asymmetrical type foot.

I see a lot of that.

Okay, do you think a lot of it's been through breeding or just what do you attribute that to when you see more of it?

I definitely think breeding, without a doubt, that's the only common denominator.

And when I see breeding with different.

So like different types of horses, obviously I have some ranch riders, I have some all arounders, I have some western Western pleasure.

So when I get into those different disciplines within the quarter horse and then I've shot some rainers and stuff like that.

So it's fun for me to see those different subsects, sub categories of the quarter horse and their feet and how their confirmation is.

And then think back, and I always ask the trainers, I'm like, as I get to know the horses, like, how's this one bred?

How's this one bred?

And then I see and study the bloodlines as they come through to me, from young horses to old horses, and then I look back and say, okay, that mare makes sense.

Or that stallion.

That makes sense.

So, yeah, it's.

I definitely think it's a breeding thing, for sure.

Okay.

Is there a bloodline you're particularly fond of for how their feet come out?

You know, I.

Well, I don't.

And I say feet.

I know they're hooves.

I always call them feet.

I can't help myself.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I don't know.

I can't say as I have a favorite breed yet.

Just any for me.

Again, coming back to more of the ranchier stock breeds and stuff like that in the quarter horse world, I can't say that I have a favorite, per se.

No.

Gotcha, Gotcha.

And what are some factors people should consider when they're deciding if their horse should be barefoot or with shoes?

I mean, the number one reason is where exceeds the growth.

So.

And then beyond that is for comfort and discipline as far as if they need a certain amount of support or traction to perform their job.

Again, as a show horse, I'm basing that somewhat more around show horses, but that's my biggest thing is I'm, It's.

I'm one of probably the few farriers, I guess you could say that if a horse can go barefoot, I'm all for it.

I was just talking with a client yesterday.

She was talking about getting a new horse and yada, yada, yada and all the things.

And I, I flat out said to her, she's like, do you think it could go barefoot?

And I'm like, well, that's a big if.

But, like, if we can get it there, of course I'm all for it.

Just most 99 of the time, you know, these.

A show horse just needs shoes because they're getting work so much, they're wearing down their foot faster than they can grow new foot.

So that's usually where that comes from.

And then a lot of it comes from the owner and what the owner is willing to do to keep that horse barefoot, if we can get it barefoot or if the horse grows a lot of foot.

Actually, I just finished my last Horse of the day is.

I think she just turned five this year.

Um, you know, she, she grows a ton of foot.

You know, she's a quarter horse.

Um, she's only ever had front shoes.

I've shot her, been working on her since she was, you know, 2 years old.

And she grows like, her hind feet are beautiful.

She grows a ton of foot.

And I keep most of my horses on a four week schedule.

And these guys, like, for being on a four week schedule, she grows almost twice as much as everybody else.

So.

Wow, that's, that's a lot.

And kind of to that point, what is the importance of hoof health to overall health for a quarter horse?

I think it's, I think it's definitely very paramount.

I mean, it's.

And again, I had this conversation today.

We were talking about it with ironically, the same owner.

She has an older gelding who has really bad knees.

And we both came to the agreement that he probably wouldn't have lived as long as he has without shoes.

He has again, like I put a lot of mechanics into his shoes and do all sorts that kind of stuff.

If he didn't have shoes, he's very, very flat footed and bad knees and kind of low healed and all this kind of stuff anyway, so that's a prime example of how shoes definitely help a horse and, and keep that horse comfortable.

I don't know, I don't put quite as much emphasis into the shoe, actually.

I was thinking about this today, I guess maybe getting ready for talking with you.

Yeah.

Your intuition was preparing.

Yeah.

And that, you know, I used to put so much effort into my shoes and all this stuff, you know, kind of go down this path of, you know, rocking this and rolling that and trimming this and doing that.

And I don't know if the shoe itself, it's how it's applied as with all the things, the pads, the packing, the shoes, whatever you put on the horse, the bottom of that horse's foot.

But to me, the trim is more important.

Having that foot balanced, not only inside and outside, medial, lateral, anterior, posterior, all that kind of stuff to me.

And then your shoe is what locks that trim into its life cycle throughout the shoeing cycle.

So, yeah, I mean, shoes have a great role to play.

Obviously they can be applied improperly and cause a lot of issues.

But a good basic trim and then a nice basic shoe applied solves 90% of your problems.

There's just so much to it.

There's.

It seems like a science and an artwork.

Yeah, yeah, it definitely is.

It Definitely is.

I think so.

And I think if you look at it that way, is the best.

But, and this is out of my curiosity here, how many horses do you normally shoe a day?

My average right now is about six full sets.

Does your back hurt?

Because I always.

Whenever I see the farriers working, I think your back must be killing you.

Yeah, I mean, without a doubt.

Like, six.

Six to seven is kind of like my max, where I'm like, all right, I'm done.

So fair enough.

I.

I respect.

I respect that.

And then we always ask our guests this question.

What's your favorite funny story of a time where you were working with a quarter horse?

Oh, boy.

You might have a few that comes to your mind first.

Man, oh, man.

It's been a while since I've had any crazy ones because I work on a bunch of nice horses now.

Ones that are respectful.

Yeah, it's mostly the people, if anything, just.

I don't know if I can't.

I can't.

I can't think of anything that comes to mind as far as a funny time with a specific horse.

I just mostly think of the people.

And you kind of look at them and, you know, internally shake your head and smile and nod and like, okay, all right.

If that's what you think.

Sometimes that's all you can do is just smile and nod.

Yeah.

And then, like, politely say why or why not that what they're thinking is.

Is correct or something.

Yeah, Yeah.

I guess I could say it's more.

I.

I can't think of a horse in particular.

I have a couple, like.

Well, the one horse, J.T.

i did today, you know, I've been doing him for a long time.

Like, he licks me, you know, like that.

That counts.

That's pretty funny.

Yeah.

You see those videos.

Like, he, like, it's always like, he's good old boy, and, you know, he just licks me, you know, so stuff like that.

I like that.

I like that.

That's probably it.

There we go.

Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Kyle.

Yeah, you're very welcome.

Sentinel Horse Feed knows there's no horse like your horse.

And nobody gets their quirks, emotions, and unique personality better than you do.

Just like you understand your horse inside out, Sentinel's expert nutritionists understand their individual dietary needs with a wide selection of formulas.

Sentinel Horse Feed has something for every life stage and activity level.

Their 100% extruded nugget formulas are packed with naturally wholesome ingredients crafted for your horse's whole body.

Well, being Discover the difference of feed that's purposefully made to to perfectly fit your horse.

Visit feed sentinel.com yourhorse to learn more or find a retailer near you.

That's feed sentinel.com yourhorse keep your horse.

Feeling their best with the supplement brands you trust.

Delivered right on time with Chewy Auto Ship.

Never run out again with easy repeat deliveries on your schedule and save big while you're at it.

Get 40% off your first auto ship order of supplements for your horse with code eqsup at checkout for your favorite brands for fast shipping, there's Chewy shop now@chewy.com Equine.

My friend and hrn favorite Heather Wallace is here.

You might know her as the hilarious co host of Adulting with Horses and as someone who bravely tackles riding with a bit of, shall we say, caution.

But Heather is also an incredibly talented author, a super mom, and an animal body worker whose expertise was recently showcased in the Washington Post.

Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap for her bodywork at the Westminster Dog Show.

Heather, I am so happy to have you on the quarter horse podcast this morning.

Thank you for joining us.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you guys so much for having me.

And you make me sound a lot cooler than I really am.

That was pretty cool.

I didn't know the whole dog show thing.

That's amazing.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Her.

Both Heather and Natalie are just like blowing up the press right now.

And we love to see it.

We love to see it.

Horse girls breaking free of the paddocks and just running amok.

Oh my God, so many puns.

I love you so much.

Okay, first out the gate, Heather, let's talk quarter horses.

Do you have any experience timidly riding any quarter horses in your past?

I love quarter horses.

So yes, I've definitely ridden them.

I definitely tried to buy one when I went to the Sea Lazy Ranch in Colorado a couple of years ago.

He was so great.

His name was Duck and I kept calling him Lucky Duck and I inquired about his availability.

He was, alas, not for sale because he's perfect.

But yeah, I, I love quarter horses.

I've never met such a great breed that is so differently built from horse to horse, but has just like amazing personality across the board.

I mean, you get it everything.

You get spicy, you get sweet, you get smart.

I mean, it's all wrapped up in one great package.

We couldn't agree more.

That's why we're here on the quarter horse show.

So let's, let's talk about Confirmation, because I love that you, you mentioned they all have different shapes.

You know, from, from a halter bred quarter horse to let's say an off the track quarter horse.

Those are going to be two very different put together horses.

Overall, I think we can agree a typical quarter horse is going to have the big old rear end that we love, that badonkadonk little booty and then a shorter neck and you know, the big jaw and little, little tapered nose.

So with that, the general confirmation of quarter horses, you know, we're not Talking about the 17 handed peg appendixes, just the general quarter horses.

How does the confirmation of a quarter horse affect its movement, would you say?

And what body work is best suited to help with quarter horses specifically given their, their confirmation?

The larger rear ends.

Sure.

Yeah.

So, I mean you, you said it.

So they are very much packed with power in the hind end, which is, as we all know, the engine of the horse.

So, so you get a really pronounced glute, you get pronounced hamstrings.

There's three hamstring muscles specifically.

And so you get a lot of that hind end engagement because they push forward.

But what a lot of people don't understand or really realize too is that that is all lifted and engaged by the lower back and the psoas muscles that come from underneath in that flank and that core.

So I think the core is a really underrated muscle group for the quarter horse and also for the psoas.

It's such a deep muscle that not a lot of massage therapists can actually access it.

So it has to be accessed indirectly through other muscle groups by someone who has got more training in the deeper tissues or has maybe integrated with chiropractors or osteopaths or done multiple certifications.

So I really like, like Trigger Point therapy is one of my go tos when we talk about quarter horses.

I work with a lot of barrel horses and cutting horses specifically in that breed.

Trigger point is one of my favorites.

Sports massage is another one.

But that doesn't necessarily go deep enough when you're talking hind end engagement, in my opinion.

Are there any exercises that riders can do that are pretty simple that could help with this core muscle?

Absolutely.

So exercises and stretches.

So exercises would be a lot of transition and interval training.

So I'm a big fan of like a hit workout.

So we all know quarter horses are sprinters by nature, so why don't we use that?

Right, let's get them to go forward.

So I like a lope before I like a jog.

Let's get them stretched out and then kind of engaging from that hind.

I like, you know, to do ground poles.

I like to do transitions from halt to lope and back again.

Backups are great also.

You really want them to get like tucked under and lifted in that back.

And then the other thing I would say is if we're going to do a stretch, I'm not the best advocate for like one of those rear end stretches because a lot of these quarter horses can get a posterior pelvis from all that backing up and stuff that they do, which is when the pelvis kind of tucks back and their hucks and hams, hamstrings go underneath them.

So if you're going to do that stretch, it kind of encourages that.

What I like to do is a belly lift.

So you're going to place one hand under the sternum, one hand under the belly, and you're going to kind of squat, press them gently up and engage that back and that core right before you get on.

You only have to do it once and it's like a plank instead of a sit up.

I feel like I used to do something like that with my quarter horse where I'd kind of push up because I read it that that brings me into my next question.

How, what do you recommend for people?

Like, are there materials people can read to learn about these terms and places on the horse's body?

Yeah.

So I always have to say as a professional, you want to be really careful kind of what videos you're following.

Even when I first started, I used to recommend a lot of carrot stretches for people.

And then I realized that a lot of people didn't know enough and were doing them incorrectly.

So you want to be careful who you follow.

But if you go on, well, I'm just going to do a shameless plug here for my book Body Conditioning for the Horse and Rider.

There's a lot of like horse owner friendly stretches and exercises you can do regardless of the breed.

But you can, you can follow certain bodyworkers or certain chiropractors and see what they recommend.

So you're going to want to check and make sure that person is accredited, is licensed and insured.

Because just because you take a, you know, you watch a YouTube video doesn't mean you can do the stretch.

So you want to make sure that someone who's actually showing you how to do it really knows their stuff and has the training.

So I always say that with like an air of caution.

Everything that I show my clients, I also always say like let's double check and make sure we're doing it correctly from time to time and just check in.

But you can look online, there's books you can read.

I think that the best teacher though is the horse.

And so try experiment, do a couple of things and see what works best for you.

Because sometimes it's something that no one's ever thought of.

So going back to these stretches, and I know you had mentioned some hip issues that you see in the quarter horse due to that badonk.

No, from throwing it back and everything, what are some other common issues that you see, you know, working with the quarter horses.

I know you mentioned your clients are cutting and raining.

What are, what are some issues that you commonly see working with?

I know in my experience, I did dressage with my quarter horse and bless his heart, he had the stiffest neck you've ever seen.

Our 20 meter circles were a joke.

Well, that's because they have a short, thick neck.

Right, exactly.

So, I mean, the way an animal is built obviously varies and I think that discipline has a huge impact on how they can move.

And I'm going to throw another wrench in there and say in addition to discipline, the tack they use.

Right.

So there is different tack per discipline and each discipline uses different body parts.

Right.

And is kind of focused on those.

So what I might see in like a sorting or a reigning horse is a lot of, you know, that hind end, a lot of pressure on the hocks and the, you know, the tendons and flexors in the hind end.

But in a barrel horse, I might see more rib issues, I might see more pole issues, I might see more neck issues.

And so it really depends, but tack is going to be a super important thing too because not all full quarter horse bars fit all quarter horses.

And I think that's really important to note and get out there because we've come a long way when it comes to tack for our animals.

But not all quarter horses are built exactly the same.

They have tendencies where they've got these big shoulders and these big badonkadonks, but, but really short backs.

And most western saddles are 22 inches treed, and that is way too long for most quarter horses that are, you know, modernly built.

So we have to kind of think about how do we open up those shoulders, how do we open up that hind end to give them that mobility so we can get that core engaged and have them lift the rider move correctly.

So it's really interesting to see from discipline to discipline just how the saddles fit.

So in Western dressage, you're going to get a more rounded skirt.

You're going to get something that's a little shorter than, say, a ranch ranch saddle or a roping saddle.

Right.

And those are a lot longer.

And they might block that.

That curve of the spine, and they might be able to just pivot.

Right.

Kind of like a.

Like a boat on the water, as opposed to wrapping around like a barrel horse would need to.

Right.

So it's very interesting to see the differences from, say, like a ranch horse to a barrel horse to a cutting horse, even though they're all quarter horses.

This is all really great information, Heather.

Where can folks go to find you?

So the best way to find me is on my website, animalbodywork.com or on Instagram and Facebook at animal bodywork nj.

And just to note, guys, I had forgotten, in Heather's illustrious introduction, she's also a saddle fitter, and so she brings so much knowledge and experience to the table.

Heather, before we wrap, we always ask our guests one story.

And we'll give you a bit of a caveat, since I know your horses are not quarter horses, but we would.

Sorry, guys.

You know, it's okay.

Even though we're the quarter horse podcast, we don't.

Well, I have a paint cross.

I don't know if that counts.

Yeah, we'll count that.

I like it.

Okay, well, yeah, count that.

It's April Fools.

When we're recording, we could do whatever we want.

So we always ask our guests to share a quirky horse story, a funny quirk your horse has or a favorite show story, something that happened at a competition that you'll never forget.

Do you have a funny story to share?

How to limit it to just one?

I know that's the hard part.

Problem.

Okay, so I'm gonna keep it to Odin, who's my little paint cross.

So he has a mysterious background.

We're not really sure where he came from, but we were told he's great on the trails.

He was trained in western dressage, so I decided to take him to a hunter pace.

And I'm a timid writer for those of you who don't know me.

And I was like, well, he's a trail master.

This is going to be totes fine.

Right?

So we go out, and I was told he was a little dominant.

So we're just like, let's just walk and kind of, you know, stay at the back of the pack.

Well, we had multiple groups fall, you know, following and passing us and whooping it up, which you're not really supposed to do on a hunter pace.

And he did pretty good at first, and then he bolted, and then that was fine.

And then he decided to start grunting like.

Like a.

And he's grunting, and then he starts bucking and bolting.

And then he decides he's going to try to drop his shoulder, buck and bolt.

And so no matter what, we couldn't calm him down.

He decided he was ready to be the top dog of that hunter pace.

So this little girl had to hop off and walk him back.

And I'll tell you, we got back to the finish line, we signed out.

I had to disqualify with my big girl pants on.

And he really did not like letting other horses finish ahead of him.

I mean, that horse wanted to go forward, and we were just.

We decided we weren't the right pair for that.

So, anyway, my daughter is now jumping him in the jumpers.

Well, it sounds like the jumpers might be more his speed pun.

Very much intended.

Very much intended.

He is.

He's a little dynamo.

He has the energizers are bunny all written all over him.

And I'm too tired to ride a horse like that, so I love it.

Same.

I just want a dopey doe down the trail like I.

That's exactly it.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, Heather, always a pleasure.

Thank you for coming on the show today.

And, folks, don't forget to go check out Heather and Natalie's podcast, Adulting with Horses, also on the Horse Radio Network.

It's hysterical.

You won't regret it.

Thank you.

Thank you guys so much.

Thanks so much for tuning in to the quarter horse podcast on Horses in the Morning.

Be sure to, like, subscribe and tell your friends all about the world's favorite breed of horse.