Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of A History Recorded straight after our recently published episode.

Who is Freddy Krueger?

I'm joined now by the guest from that episode, Noel Mellor, to discuss this a little bit more.

Noel, thank you for hanging on.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Yeah, really, really enjoyed our chat on the podcast and anyone listening to this, if you haven't already, go back and check out the full episode right now.

If it was just really great to talk about slashers and horror and Freddy Krueger.

And I'm just really interested to know, when did you first watch A Nightmare on Elm Street?

So I was trying to figure this out recently because we sort of, you know, obviously been 40 years of 40 year anniversary of the film and I was at the sort of University of Nottingham 40 year conference that they had and part of the paper that I sort of delivered there was talking about how I came to Frank Freddy and stuff like that.

And I.

The more I thought about it, the more I thought, the more I realized, I think I saw the second film first.

Really?

Yeah, I think so, because so obviously the film came out in 84 and it was released on home video in 85 or 86 even maybe in the UK.

And so that would have meant that I was eight or nine years old.

And I think, you know, a little bit like we were saying in the main podcast, Freddie was already sort of part of the culture at that point.

He was talked about in the playground and what A Nightmare on Elm street apparently was, was such a terrifying thing that I just don't think I would have watched it.

I think when Freddy's Revenge came out in 87, by that point I was watching a lot of horror movies.

Even though I was like sort of 9, 10 years old at this point, I was watching a lot of horror movies and I think I'd have watched Elm Street 2 and then watched Elm Street 1.

So I think I watched Freddy's Revenge first.

So it would have been 87, like I said, I'd have been about 9 years old.

I was very, I was very good at that age at sort of pushing myself with horror movies because I knew I liked horror movies, but I was still scared of them.

So yeah, it was around that time because I would have been watching an awful lot of stuff at that point and you know, a lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't have been watching quite.

Yeah, I'm with you there.

I was maybe a little bit later to the horror game.

I was, I think like early teens When I really started watching horror, I don't remember when I first watched Elm street, but I do remember buying the box set.

And it's probably right behind me here.

Listeners can't see it, but there's a whole wall of DVDs behind me.

And I've got the box set of Nightmare on Elm street because I decided one day I'm going to just binge the whole franchise.

How did that go?

It was good.

Like, I mean, trust me, it was a bit of a slog by the, like, the eight Show.

But Dream warriors was, in my opinion, the best sequel.

And that seems to be quite a popular opinion, but absolutely, yeah.

I did a podcast a couple of years ago with a friend of mine where we just did the whole show on Dream Warriors.

His podcast is called the Iron Sequel, which was purely just about sequels that people love.

And when it came time to do Dream warriors, he immediately contacted me.

I was like.

Like, I've got to have you on this for this.

But it is.

I think Dream warriors is.

Dream warriors is definitely the one that people love the most because it's the most fun.

And it's the.

It's the one where.

I mean, first of all, the first film, you know, it's very much about Freddy in the dream world.

And then the second film, they sort of break their own rules a little bit and bring Freddy out into the real world.

So the third film, they sort of.

They almost.

Well, they double down on the dream world stuff and they go, right, no, he's only in the dream world and he can do this, this and this and this and this.

So it's the.

The third one's very much the one where they really start to have fun with the concept.

And I think that's what made it such a sort of memorable one for people.

It's.

Yeah, it's the most fun and it's got the most fantastical sort of elements in it.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it's.

It's.

It's.

It's.

It's a great culmination of, you know, the previous two.

And I was listening to a podcast, actually, at Scream by Ryan C.

Showers.

And as the title suggests, they're a podcast that looks specifically at the Scream franchise, but they dipped out to discuss Nightmare on Elm street, which is also Wes Craven.

And he made the good point that the Dream warriors is kind of the end of the sort of Freddie and, oh, my God, the main character has got up my mind.

Is it Nancy?

Heather.

Nancy, yeah.

Yeah, it's sort of.

It's the end of their kind of trilogy, ar and the end of, like, Nancy's story.

Yeah.

And I think that's why those first three just hit a bit differently, maybe.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think, you know, it's the sort of.

It's an early example of bringing the original Final Girl back.

Obviously, we've seen other franchises do that since Halloween, has done it a couple of times now, and I think that that works.

I think, obviously, they brought Nancy back, or Heather Langenkamp back, I should say, for New Nightmare a few years later on.

And I love New Nightmare, but I think the decision to sort of bring her.

Heather Langenkamp back as Heather Langenkamp, I don't think people were ready for that at the time.

If I think it was.

It probably not confused people.

It was just a bit strange to people.

And.

And I think the fact that she's not a teenage Final Girl in that she's a mum who's sort of thinking about what's best for her kids and stuff like that, it's a.

Again, it's a great message and a great concept, but I don't know if that's what people wanted at the time.

But, yeah, that idea of sort of bringing.

Bringing the main Final Girl back is.

It's always a winner, really.

Yeah.

And Wes Craven obviously did that in such a meta way with New Nightmare a few years later.

Yeah.

And I think that was.

You know, I've always sort of referred to New Nightmare as being.

It's almost like the blueprint for the Scream franchise.

It was his first attempt at, you know, addressing sort of meta anxieties around film in the real world, horror film in the real world.

So, yeah, I don't think people were ready for it at the time.

But a few years later, when he did it in Scream, or I did a version of that in Scream, I think people got on board with it a lot more.

And, you know, he was able to change horror all over again and sort of usher in a new era of horror just on.

Based on his.

His.

His ideas.

It's interesting, really.

Like, Wes Craven really does enjoy this.

This theme of, like, life imitating art and art imitating life and sort of that playing out in his films.

Because, yeah, like, New Nightmare really did that and.

And then Scream kind of took that to another level.

But he's always.

I think in all of his films, he loves playing with this idea of, like, reality and.

And sort of sort of straddling that line.

And I think it's what makes Craven such a.

Such a Great horror filmmaker because he's sort of bringing very, very sophisticated sort of filmmaking to a genre that typically has always been quite a cheap conveyor belt genre to make.

Right.

I think that's it.

And I think he, you know, in terms of his career, I think it's something he kind of struggled with a little bit because he did have ambitions outside of horror that he sort of tried to explore a little bit, but then people just wanted more Wes Craven horror movies.

So, so when he does come back to horror, he, he goes, all right, well, I tell you what, then.

If horror is what you want, I'll make horror, but I'll try and put some thought into it and I'll try and do something a little bit interesting.

And I mean, it's also, you know, new Nightmare as well, is it's an opportunity for him to air his grievances about the way the franchise was treated.

So, you know, there's, there's scenes in, featuring Wes Craven himself where he's literally talking about, well, you know, Freddie wasn't.

We, we misunderstood Freddie and we, we took him the wrong way and we made him into a clown.

And that just made him more dangerous and stuff like that.

But it's his way of sort of twisting the knife and going, hey, man, you balled up my flat.

You, you balls up my franchise.

Yeah, no, I, I do, I do love that.

And I, I guess there's, there's a podcast episode in future there to sort of look specifically at Wes Craven because what, what an absolute, like, pioneer of the horror genre.

I'm keen to know that we've talked a lot about Nightmare on Elm street and Freddie, what's your favorite horror movie?

My favorite horror movie.

I think I, it may surprise you to sort of hear it, actually, but I'm less enamored with slasher movies than I am sort of more thinky horror movies.

I, that said, I do sort of, I love Brian De Palma.

I think Kari is one of the greatest horror movies ever made.

And Blowout, I'd put that in there as well.

But I, I, I do tend to get an awful lot more from horror movies that are disturbing.

So things that sort of are unnerving as opposed to just out and out gore.

I think that's, I'll be honest, it's an age thing as well.

I just, you know, I grew up watching a lot of gory horror movies and I thought they were great when I was very young, but I guess by the time I reached my 20s, I'd seen, I'd Seen everything.

So I was like, all right, well, what else is there?

But yeah, if I had to pick one, I'd probably pick Carry or I'd pick Blowout.

Probably just something a little bit more.

A little bit more thinking, a little bit less gory.

Yeah, that's interesting.

I.

I actually love the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the original.

And I think for that it's.

It's maybe not a thinky horror, but I think it is a really uncomfortable horror.

Yeah.

And I think the way that Toby Hooper made that film and just.

It just if it.

You feel like you're doing something wrong by watching it.

And I love that kind of horror.

I think the whole aesthetic of Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just very uncomfortable.

And it's interesting hearing him hearing Tobe Hooper talk about it when he can remember making the film.

That is.

You know, he.

He talks about how it was painfully hot and it was painfully uncomfortable to make.

And I think it is a.

It is a discomfort in film.

I think it's.

It's gooey and sticky and just a bit gross.

And I think that's what works so well for it.

Yeah, I think that's a really good way of describing the film.

Do you think we're ever going to see now sort of Freddie make a return when we touched on it in the main episode about, you know, maybe it could find its way onto tv, but, you know, will Freddie come back realistically?

And if so, who do you think might play him?

It's tricky.

I mean, I think it's inevitable.

I think he has to come back.

It's.

It's too much of a cash cow.

It's too much of an obvious win.

It's too much of a strong core idea that translates, you know, as I've said, I think, particularly well to a TV series.

It's difficult to kind of think of individual names of.

Of people who.

Actors who might give this a go.

But I would think that whoever it is, they would need to be a relatively physical actor.

I think the Jackie Earl Haley was obviously chosen for.

For similar reasons.

I think, you know, being able to act behind a mask was something that he was known for at the time.

So whoever it is, I think he needs to be physical.

I think he needs to have comedy chops.

It's difficult because some of the actors that come to mind who are able to sort of manage physicality and comedy are probably not actors who would physically look like what we.

What we need Freddy Krueger to be.

But, yeah, whoever it is, it needs to be I think the.

The.

And this is the reason that I point to tv.

We need to get to know that person, and we need to get to know that actor, and we need to explore that character a little bit just to sort of really understand him and.

And get on board with him all over again.

So, yeah, I don't know.

It's.

It's a difficult one because, again, you're probably talking about.

It would need to be somebody who is in his at least late 30s, early 40s.

And if you think about most of the male actors in that age bracket at the moment, they're probably far too big and busy to get down and dirty as Freddy Krueger.

So we will see that.

I mean, this.

The guy that I'm about to say is probably, you know, maybe a bit too old now, or maybe not with good makeup, but kind of ticks the boxes that you were just saying.

Someone like Bryan Cranston, he would be a bit of an out of casting, but he brings that theatricality to it.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah.

And he.

He can sort of get away with, you know, looking a little bit feeble and a little bit old and stuff like that, but actually, he's still got.

He's still got juice in the tank.

I mean, if we're looking for physicality, we could just get Jack Black to do it.

He does everything else, doesn't he?

Can you imagine?

Can you imagine?

Yeah.

What.

What a reboot that would be.

There's rarely a franchise left for him to touch, is there?

So if it's.

If it's not him, then it's the Rock and.

Yeah, yeah.

And out of the two, let's.

Let's go with Jack.

Yeah, let's stick with Jack.

Yeah.

No, thank you for.

For chatting all things Horror and Nightmare on Elm street with me.

It's been a real pleasure getting you on the podcast.

Do remind our listeners if they do want to get in touch with you directly where they can do that.

Yeah, you can reach me directly or check out any of my old or new stuff just over@noelmellor.com awesome.

Thanks, Noel.

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Thank you so much for listening and goodbye.