in today's episode, Kevin. I'm chatting to Francis and Laura from drive school TV. Originally we'd invited them on. To be podcast guests to chats about the YouTube channel. They take talk their Instagram because that's a whole new world for us and they really do a lot of work. Helping learn a drivers are nervous drivers. With their driving warriors. However, they turned it round on us, invited us to go and see them. And they wanted to ask us lots of questions to find out how we could help their audience with driving tests, nerves. So they did some filming. They did some recording and here's a copy of our conversation we had great fun talking to them. So we hope you enjoy listening.

So Kevin and Tracy, thanks for coming and seeing us today. Traveled all the way to London. Yeah, no, on the train.

Yeah. No, thank you so much for inviting us and for actually for pushing us to do something. This started off with us asking you to be a pod cards guest. Yes. And you're like, no, let's do this a bit different. and Pushing us to twist it round into something a little bit different, which is great. because we would never have thought of it.

Amazing. Well, we're filming this as well, so hopefully it can be more helpful and we can be more engaging. Because what we get is a lot of questions every

day about driving test nerves.

It seems to be that is growing in popularity as a question for us. So this is why you guys are here to help us and help

our audience as

well as maybe we can help your audience as

well. Yep.

Fantastic. With the big problem of how do I actually feel calm on a

driving test. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is the hundred billion dollar question is how do

do you

Calm. Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, It's different for everybody because everyone is unique. They all come with their own experiences, their own reasons for being nervous. It's not a one size fits all is it? So I'm sure with the questions you get

that

they're all talking about slightly different things things and there's different reasons why they're nervous

never really any generic answer you can give because everybody is individual. Yeah.

And we were talking about mindfulness just a little bit before that works for some people, but it doesn't work for everybody. So you you need to be able to work out what the reasons are for somebody's nerves, but also what suits their personality. So that your suggestion fits them.

So sometimes when you're helping somebody deal with something like nerves and anxiety leading up to like a driving test, it's not often. It's not just like a one conversation you can have with somebody. It's like a journey that you then go on with that particular person, as you say, to find out.

out.

What, where their strengths are, their weaknesses, what they can do, what they can't do in terms of mindfulness and what works for them and what doesn't work for them. And so you kind of end up going on the journey with them

Yeah. because it's not a magic

wand. Yeah. There is no, it's not an instant, it's not an instant. One size fits all, as you say. Yeah.

Yeah. tell the biggest question that we get the most, in our inbox, in our dms is, what's your biggest, most helpful top tips for nerves and anxiety? On my driving test?

I'm gonna say the first thing I would always say is, are you ready?

Okay. Mm-hmm. You know,

that is, I believe, as a driving instructor, driver, trainer, do you know, I train lots of different people, lots of different vehicles. Is, are you actually ready to drive on your own? And when I say independent driving, people's perception of independent driving is either following a satna or following signs. I don't mean that, what I actually mean is can you drive a car on your own without anyone telling you anything? Or Can you actually drive on your own without anybody making any gestures, saying anything

from

A to B

and

make those decisions? Can you do that on your own? And that's the question to start with first off.

Okay. So let's, let's expand on that then. Yeah. A lot of people you must see in the car, you feel like they can drive on their own. You give them 20 minutes of chat about food and they've been driving perfectly fine. Yeah. But you ask 'em that question and they say no. Yep. That self-belief isn't there, but you, you know, as their trainer that they can do it.

And that's where it's their belief of, can I do this? You are putting that question to them. You're not saying they can't, you're not saying they can. And it's like, well, what have you just done? What would happen in these situations if a police car came up behind you, what would you do? And you're trying to get them to think of the best way for them and consequences. Can they deal with those consequences? Can they deal with pulling away from a set of traffic

lines

when they're the first one and there's 200 cars behind them and the vehicle behind them, I'm not, I'm gonna generalize now, but there's a white

van. Okay?

was just about to say that it's gotta be the white van. It's gotta be the white van. There's gotta

be a white

And

most of them, are, or the Amazon vans. They're not white. No more.

That close. that close.

Can you deal with that situation? And if they can deal with that situation in their mind and thought processes, that's how you know they're ready. Yeah. And that's how they, know, they're ready. But the research shows that there is a time lag, there is a time delay between somebody having the ability and believing they have the ability. There's some research in phobias, where they've helped people desensitize people against different things that they're scared of, different phobias, and it shows that their ability is more than their belief. It just takes a little while for people to catch up. Well, that's where your reflection, your journaling that we were talking about earlier That's where working on your belief as well as your driving skills, it's kind of turning

people into PEs from pessimists

optimists. Yeah. And making them realize that

they, you know, believe

that they can. Yeah. And it's that to Dar mm-hmm. That, that, that we were talking about as well. So, you know, when you have a lesson. Rather than always focusing on what you need to improve, what didn't go so well, really also paying time and attention on what did go well. And replay that in your mind's eye because if you re replay it again, if you remember it, then you, that helps your brain catch up with your ability.

So

as a driving instructor and a driver trainer, you are saying that what I could do better for my students to help them get to that point quicker is reflection and more regular

reflection. Yeah. More regular reflection from day one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You're not building this close to test. You need to be building this right at the beginning. Yeah. And it's, it's so important because can you, first lesson is normally moving off and stop. They will do that at some point on their first lesson, but can they do that on their own without you saying anything? And another little way of doing it is put them in the drive instructor's chair, the passenger seat and can they talk you through doing it as well?

Okay. Do you do that on lessons?

We, I do so much

stuff. Okay.

but what it does

consolidate

learning. right?

right? Yeah. Have you

had anyone had to use the jaws on you yet? I have to

think. about, No,

I

I haven't I haven't though, but yet. but it's one of those

things, it's like consolidated learning. and If it starts on day one, it's just a progress and they get to know whether or not they can drive on their own. And you know, you understand something when you can teach it. Yeah. If they practice being able to talk somebody else through it, teach somebody else what they've learned, if they can do it and articulate it, then they know, they understand it. And that helps build their belief as well. Mm-hmm. I think that's

where like things like

driving and

and that comes in handy as well because obviously when they're speaking out loud and, and talking themselves through, you know, methods and things like that, then you know, we get a good understanding that they know what they're doing and it helps them actually, oh yeah, wow, I saw that. Whereas I might not have seen that two weeks ago or three weeks ago. So they can then see their progress with

how much

more they're commentating during lessons and things

like that as well. Yeah. We're huge fans, aren't we, of talking, talking yourself through. Because if if You talk yourself through as well, let's go back to that traffic lights with the white van behind you. I'm gonna bring

bring that PTSD

Yeah. Is if you're talking through that situation, what you're doing is you're not thinking about rolling back, you're not thinking about stalling. Mm-hmm. You're not thinking about what the white van wants you to do. You are actually telling yourself what to do. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Yeah. I made a video on commentary driving and explained how beneficial it is to do it on your test. Yeah. So that the examiner can see it. One of the main comments that I got from that was,

was,

I'd feel silly.

Yep.

How can you get over that?

What would you rather do?

And,

and and that's the question I asked my students is, do you want to talk yourself through on your test

and pass

or completely change your driving for 40 minutes and not know the outcome. Because what you are doing is you are becoming someone different. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which a lot of people, oh no, I'm still driving. Yeah. But you are driving style has changed and you're not talking through what you want to do. That's what I

to a lot of my students. You know when

you're sitting in

the test center and they're waiting

go out on Tess, just

say last minute pep talks

drive like you normally do. Yeah. Don't put on a special show now. Yeah.

Like

everything that you, you know, you've got all the knowledge

all the skills necessary to go and execute is to the best of your ability.

There's

no special show needed. Just do what you

normally do and don't change anything. so, if you've always, and we, we were speaking to somebody a couple, few weeks ago, weren't we? And he's like, he's, she's brilliant. She does everything. She drives on her own, she makes all her own decisions. And I said, what is the difference between her lessons and that test? And he said, she talks herself all the way through on her lessons. She won't do it on her test. And I said, that's why she's failing. She needs to do exactly the same thing cuz she's leaving room. For these, pesky Little thoughts and Doubts. to come in. But also, again, you know, I'm always going on about the research. The research shows that when you speak to yourself, it regulates your emotion. So it not only, stops the doubts sneaking in, but it also keeps you calmer.

Okay. Let's talk more about that. cuz this is really interesting. Um, when you are on a driving test, your driving does change. When you have a pupil in the car, you see they're driving and you know that they're ready for their driving test, and then you sit in the back of the test with them. I did this two weeks, three weeks ago, and it was a completely different person. The nerves got to her, the voice was high, shrill, squeaky, and she was in pieces. So no matter what training I could have done with her up until that point, nothing. Was getting her through that test,

except

the examiner getting out of the car and me being her examiner. What can we do?

That's, I think that's, in my personal opinion, yeah.

that obviously someone obviously is

going back to that mindfulness.

like if somebody has all that practical understanding and

and knowledge and ability

in a situation like that, it is

Or working on the mindsets. that's some, some stuff that

they have to

do outside of the car as well as inside of the car in order to prepare better

for

that test. And it depends if she knew she could drive, if she had the belief in herself and the test is the cause of the nerves rather than anything else, then there are some things that you can do. On the day to change your emotional state. What that won't do is that won't improve your knowledge and your driving. It's hitting different aspects of what causes nerves. So Yeah. Changing your emotional state on the day Yeah. And it's is breathing is very, very, cuz potentially, I don't know your student, but I know my students, their breathing changes and you can see it from the back of the car. You can sense it, you're can feel it. And it's like,

What

you afterwards? Danko? well, I, I just felt tense and it's okay. So did you breathe? Um, sort of, but he must have framed a little bit. But there

wasn't that, for 40 minutes. Yeah,

Yeah.

but they, they felt themselves changed.

Mm-hmm. One, one of the things is when we're talking about test, is the word test, isn't it? Mm-hmm Yeah, Definitely. Assessment would be better. Assessment better or it's just driving, like you mentioned, it's just another drive And thinking of it as the examiner is just checking whether you as the instructor is correct in saying that yes, this person, is like a double check as, as an instructor you've said, I've taught this person to drive, this person is ready to go and drive independently on their own. So if you think of it more that it's the examiner, just checking that they agree with you, it's a double check on what you are saying as opposed to really judging and scrutinizing, you know, everybody starts having passed their test. So if you think that the examiner is actually checking the instructor's judgment rather than the driver's skills, and it's also practicing those assessments beforehand and you can't really do it with, you not sitting in the front of the car but it's, it's getting their friends. It's, I find a fantastic Opportunity because friends judge.

friends

are competitive, especially the boys I've noticed. I want to be better than him. I want to be the best driver. So when you get friends sitting in the back and we say, right, what we're gonna do is drive for 20 minutes. And then afterwards we, we will get some feedback from the people sitting in the back. or the person sitting in the back, they're driving changes because they're not focused on the driving. What they're doing is they're focusing on what the person behind is gonna say at the end. Okay. So it's very similar to an examiner. What's the examiner gonna say at the end?

I think we just need my 10 year old daughter for that one. She said a couple, couple of months ago. A couple of months ago, my son and I went to pick her up from school and she was obviously in the back and then we got home and

was just like,

I don't want Jamie to Parton's test because I don't want him to ever

pick me up

from school by himself, kind of thing. I was like, okay, well we just need bang, a 10 year old in the back of it. Cause they give you that honest filters.

Let's

go back to something you said, which was really

interesting, and I say this to

some of my pupils too. You

You always start the test having passed. Yes. yeah.

yes. Let's talk more about that.

Yeah. And it's keeping that in your mind it comes back to that thing again is your instructor has trained you, you know, you can drive, you know, you have all the knowledge and your instructor said they're ready. So if you believe you're ready, your instructor believes you're ready, then you are starting with a pass. So it's trying to keep that belief in your ability rather letting those, what if negative thoughts sneak in? The examiner wants you to pass. That's what I do. the examiner, you know, there's a. a long waiting list. The examiners don't want to be failing people. They want to be passing people and getting people through. So everyone is on your side. You've gotta make sure that you are on your side, that you are your own cheerleader and practicing some of those mindset things. So remembering what you've done well, remembering, all the things that have gone well in the past. And if you catch yourself thinking negatively and thinking, oh, what if this, what if that, is that a thought or is that a fact? Is that a helpful way to be thinking right before your test? And you can choose. You can choose to go, actually, do you know what? That's not very helpful. Let's go and harm or sing, or do some stretching, or do some breathing exercises. Do a really quick mindfulness exercise, bringing me back to the present moment instead of being in my head with unhelpful thoughts. That's a much more positive way of putting

it than I do when I'm my students. I

say,

the examiner's got a sheet with your

on the top, and all of the full boxes are empty. That's already got your

your name on it. You've already got a driving license. When you start making

making mistakes, that's when the faults start coming.

So go in, you've passed. All you've gotta do is drive for 40 minutes and not fill up those

Yeah, but do you drive without making mistakes? I don't drive without making mistakes.

I drive without

making mistakes.

Everyone's, seen

that's evidently when no one's

watching,

evidently when no one's watching.

So actually the, the reality is we all make mistakes. Even really experienced drivers make mistakes. I'm sure that examiners make mistakes. We've gotta be careful not to be too fearful of making mistakes and fill in the boxes. And sometimes when they're working, you know, popping things on their iPad, that doesn't always mean that they've spotted a mistake. That's, does it,

I say a lot of the time, because a lot of the time when the driver sat there and they see that movement in from the passenger seat, that hand movement or

that's it. yeah.

You know, I say to them like, don't assume it's for something a, that you've even just done, or something that you've done anyway. You know, the way that we all sit there and fiddle from time to time. Yeah. They could be doing the same thing, you know, and so don't. Don't run with

assumption. Yeah. And don't be busy trying to count how many times they've touched their iPad. How many mistakes am I allowed? Does that mean, you know, is those sorts of assumptions that can throw you because you're not thinking of the driving?

Yeah. And I always say as well,

well, you've distracted yourself.

A lot of

the time it's human nature for

us to feel that we've done

something bad, when

in actual fact it might not be as bad as

what we think. Yeah. So as

well, if you do feel

you've committed a fault, whether that be something

as you know, a minor

or a major

fault, like try not un dwell

on it.

Pick yourself up and carry on. Yeah. Because what you think is really bad in

in the eyes of someone else

else actually isn't. It's just what we

do as,

as humans, we always

think the worst

of a

Yeah. we've got a negative bias. Yes. Which is my big word, which means we always think negatively. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's the real

shame

the

driving test is just negative. There's nowhere to put down where you do anything good. Yeah. It's

just, and that's how, well, that's how I sit. I, I say

them, look, the examiner's

coming out with the intentional on giving you your license.

That's why they mark

negatively. So unless you do this, this, this, this, this, or this, you know, that's your license and you're not gonna get outta the car unless

you get your license. Yeah. So, you know, just demonstrate

what you've learned and I'm bringing

you there. They know that I'm

telling you them, that I think

you're ready. Yeah.

And so

you've gotta believe in that yourself as well. You know,

It's like you get to the end

of a driving test and

the examiner says, oh, I'm pleased to tell you that you've passed, but here's five different way reasons. You're the driving.

Yeah. Well Watch this in the future. But they do sometimes, I know you've told me that sometimes they will say, I'm really sorry this time I can't. But you are ready, you. That's

the that's the, frustrate. Yeah. That's so frustrating.

That's the, if you think I'm ready to drive, just give me. a license,

to me. Yeah, you can drive,

but, you pulled out in front of that car and I can't pass you for it. Yeah, yeah. Mm. I wish they said, sorry you failed. You weren't successful in this time. This is the things you need to work on. I think that what I think they think they're helping. I think they're trying to build up your confidence, but it makes you more worried about those mistakes. Doesn't it? Okay.

Let's be controversial

now. Ooh.

Talking about driving tests and how the examiners

can and can't, or sometimes do, or sometimes

don't make you feel good, or don't

make you feel less nervous or anxious. Ready to pass campaign from the D vs A. I

was talking to a

about this the other day. She's got her test coming up, shout out to you. and we were talking about the amount of emails that she's got. And it's making her more anxious. Are you ready to pass?

Have you done enough mock tests? Or have you checked off these five things? Have you done

Have you done that?

And she's like, uh, I don't

know Yes.

And even if you did feel super prepared, that's enough to make you question it

Yeah, yeah. yeah. I don't, I, me personally, see, I think it's great. I think it's great that they're taking an active involvement in saying to people, are you ready to pass your test? And the information on the website is actually really good. It's really good. And it's, since they've changed it, Because it wasn't so great, originally. it wasn't so good, and I still think it could be better.

I

I don't think they're really good at asking questions. The question is, are you ready?

Yeah. I

no

now.

Yeah, Yeah. And it's, it's very, I think they could have phrased it differently to have a more subtle approach to get people to think more, rather than, are you ready? Yes or no closed question. that's it. But have you done everything possible to be ready for this test? I think there's a so much better question because people have to think of all the different things that they've done.

It's a bit like if you take it back to like theory test, like you can get asked the same

just worded differently. Yeah. And sometimes

people will look at them

two same questions, worded differently, know the answer for one, but

not know the answer for the other. However,

it's the same question.

Likewise there, you know, are you ready? If you just word it differently, you'd get a total different caliber

answers. And I think this is the problem. I can be even more controversial.

Good. Do it. We love it.

and

think this is the problem with instructors. They have, different ways of teaching. all different, but some of the questioning techniques that they have is, You know, not quite as good as it could be. And I think that's where, you know, it's a work in progress, but it's just think about the questions that are asking and get people to think, because that is what the D V S A do are very black and white, very Less less close questions, more open questioning You can get yourselves to think, am I ready to pass this test independently so I can drive to McDonald's and then go off shopping and then take mum out in the evening to the field or wherever, you know, can I do that independently, safely? That's a much better question to ask than are you ready? And I think for your student, you know, with a test coming up saying, I'm getting bombarded with all this, it's making me feel stressed. Is that really for you or is that actually for the people who are going for tests who aren't? Ready. That's it. Well, the Ready to pass campaign is

from the dvsa. Um, they're sending out emails to

They're putting campaigns on Instagram and social media to ask people are they ready? And to make sure that, well, to try and discourage people from taking driving tests when they're not completely ready To try and deal with the backlog so that there's more tests available for people who are ready. Yeah. Yeah.

But

in doing

that,

it's making people more anxious and question themselves, making people more nervous, making people more likely to fail. And here's the big problem, because we do have such a huge backlog, because you have to wait six months for another driving test. Yeah. People go into the driving test like it's the

last Chance Saloon. When before Covid, we could go into the driving test and just say to the people,

if you fails, doesn't matter. You can just do it again in two months. It's, or two weeks even. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not

like a levels where you won't go uni if

if you fail this, just do it again. Yeah. But now it's so important and it drives the nerves up so much. It's a actual real big problem.

I

think as well when there's obviously uh,

Number of people, like

like

a lot of time now people want the driving license or need a driving license for maybe a

choice. Yep. And things like that. So it's such a massive

pivotal point in somebody's life.

So for

somebody to be able to go and execute it the best of their ability and feel great whilst doing so

so

is just super important. Yeah. It's

really, really important. And it's trying to keep a handle on those extra pressures. So, you know, we've talked right back at the beginning, didn't we? About those different reasons for people being nervous. Well, what is the reason that I am so nervous or so anxious? And sometimes it's nothing to do with your driving. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it is to do with those extra pressures of I wanna apply for that job, or I want mom and dad not to have to drive me to my job anymore. Or, being worried about what your friends are gonna say or what your family are gonna say if you pass or if you fail. So if those are the things that are making you anxious, you need to keep a handle on that because that's nothing to do with your driving. So you need to come back to your drive-in, Focus in on your driving, not the afterwards, not the future stuff that hasn't happened yet. Okay. I'm in the driving test center. I'm waiting for my

driving examiner. I can see I've got five minutes on the clock.

I am bricking it. What can I do mindfulness wise to calm myself down? You got into mindfulness. I'll do the other bits that I've done. Okay. So quickest mindfulness exercise ever is to catch yourself if you're having your worries. And then think right now. I'm gonna stop. I need to interrupt that somehow. What can I see? And so look around the room. Look, if you're outside, look around outside. If there's a window, have a look. What can I

see?

Picking something? What color is it? Mm-hmm. What shape is it? Light, dark, texture. Anything you can notice. Then changing your attention. What can I hear? Yeah. Yeah. Can I hear things from my body? Yeah. Rumbly tummy. Cuz I'm feeling nervous. Or somebody else's rumbly tummy in the waiting room cuz they're feeling nervous. Can they hear things from outside the waiting room? Can they hear cars? Can they hear birds? Can they hear the wind? And then swapping again, physical sensations. What can I feel? And lots of people struggle with this coming into their body and noticing what they can feel or they. There's things they don't want to feel, they don't want to feel, um, nerve sighted as I call it. So those butterflies in the tummy where you're feeling nervous and excited. So if you don't wanna feel those feelings, wiggle your Fingers, Wiggle your toes. yeah, what can you feel? So you can feel the air on your fingers as you move them. You can feel the temperature, you can feel the muscles moving. So suddenly you've got something physical to pay attention to.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Then there's a couple of dodgy extra senses. I call 'em dodgy because you might not want to focus on these. What can you Smell

Okay.

if you sat around the corner from the toilet. Yeah.

So, this one is definitely a choice. And what can you taste? So, you know, did you have a drink or a coffee or breakfast, or, you know, the dreaded banana? Hopefully you haven't shoved too many bananas down before you taste. What can you taste? Once you've rolled around those senses and you can do it really quickly and I mean, that was quite long there, but you can do it really quickly or you could spend the whole five minutes doing it doesn't matter. But just blocking out those thoughts. But you can also transfer that into the car when you're actually driving on your test as well. Yes.

and that's what I encouraged. And One of,

uh, Shannon,

shout out Shannon,

uh, she was said that she had, was recently having a struggle with a student where every junction

just, like, she didn't wanna stop, she just wanted to keep going. She wasn't looking or anything like that. And she

just wanted

rush, rush, rush. And I even said, put that in

of, you know, Yeah. as you're arriving at the junction,

rather than her thinking

like, obviously yeah, she wants to look, can I go? But

actually to try and

slow her down a little bit as she arrives, as well as looking at what's

going on, think

those things as well. Cause I

that will just generally

somebody's body down. bring it back in And bring them back into that present moment. Yep. definitely.

You said the banana thing

that so Yeah. Flavor. Yeah. You said the dreaded banana.

Well, many people hate bananas and they're, you know, if you don't like bananas, don't do the banana thing if you like

I've had someone really, really force

it. Yeah. Don't f Because you know, if you're a bit nervous and then you're eating something that you don't like the taste of, it's just gonna make you more.

Do

you believe it though? Does it work? Do, does. it work? Do you believe it?

it? Okay. It's just the research Yeah. I mean, There are all sorts of things that you get from a banana That will help you with your blood sugar, that will help you with your mood. But the reality is it is only, No, no, no, I'm not. It is true. It does work, but, You do only get a small amount of those things from one banana. So it's absolutely true. It does work. but it's, but you, but you know, but yeah, One, one or yeah, One or two One or two bananas. You are getting small amounts of those. But don't forget, you've also got that you're taking action, you're doing something positive, purposeful to manage your nerves. So eating the banana, just that in itself, taking that action will make you feel like you're more in control.

Okay. Well, people always wanna know what they can take to make them

feel less nervous. Mm-hmm. Calms Rescue Remedy, bananas. Chocolate. We've heard all of those. What's the best ones I'll tell you what I do recommend chewing something. Chewing gum. chew chew. And that's because it tricks your brain. So when you are sucking a sweet chewing gum, then you're producing more saliva in your mouth. When you produce more saliva in your mouth, then a message goes to your brain going, oh, hang on a minute. I thought I was really nervous here. Well, when you're nervous, you get a dry mouth. You know, that's one of the things, well, it can't be that bad if they've got all this saliva going on in their mouth. Okay, false alarm. False alarm, let's, bring this back down again. Calm it down. So it helps to trick the brain, but, but the truth is, is that everything works, even if it's just in your mind. So some work well on a physical level as well, but you know, the placebo effect is, Real. Mm-hmm. It is how we used to treat people medically years ago. We're not allowed to treat people medically anymore in with a placebo. effect. Okay. So it is

real we're gonna cut this bit out of the podcast just keep going

bananas. Bananas work. Bananas are cool. Cool.

Yes. Bananas. and Bananas do work. Yeah. It, it all

works. It's something I was encouraged to

when I was younger. so I was brought up playing the violin. I used to hate performing in front

of people, getting

on the

stage, you know, soloist or within

the orchestra. just,

I would

just melt. It was my violin teacher when I started secondary school when I was about 11,

12.

was

just like, wait,

have a banana?

I was

I have

a banana. What's this all about? And it, for

I found it worked. Yeah. And so it's something that I've just run with. and anybody, who I do say, try banana, they, they

back like, oh my

gosh. Wow. Yeah, it's worked. So yeah.

So

I'm sticking with,

them.

sticking with bananas. I mean, somebody asked the other day, well, why bananas and not chocolate? And I said, obviously if you're looking at chocolate, you need to look at the the the cocoa solids that are in Yes, within it, you

know, you To Make sure it's high so that you're still getting all your bits and pieces all your serotonin

and everything. And plus obviously you just need to

one of the five a day really, rather than a bar of chocolate, isn't it? So One square's just not enough, is it? Whereas one banana might be, it just comes back to that one size doesn't fit all. So don't force a banana is if you don't like them. It's gonna make you feel nauseous, which your body, as soon as you feel nauseous, your brain is gonna go, oh, feel a bit sick, I must be feeling sick with nerves. And then your brain makes that prediction and you're gonna feel more nervous.

Have you

got any more tricks and tips like chewing the gum? Yawning. Okay, everyone says what? So at the test center, get out and nervous, you know, they, you're getting out the car, you can tell their nerves have come into their face. Stand, put the side of the car before they go into the test center and really, really yawn. And what you do is, you know, you do it with the arms stretched and then make the noises as well,

Hundred percent. He horns really loudly. Brilliant.

That does the trick that that really does it. It is. And do two or three of them, people will be walking by on their test and they be going, he's not bothered What is going on? He's filled out. But he, again, what it does is change your state. It helps with the breathing. So there's two, two forms of this one. Mm-hmm. One, you're opening your chest so you can actually breathe a little bit more. So you can actually do that. You also, when you make the noise is brilliant because you are using the vagus nerve. Yeah. Stimulating your vagus nerve. And that actually calms everything down inside all the major organs. Cause if you stimulate that that helps. But also as well, what you're doing is you're stretching. If you think about runners, how do they relax their muscles? They stretch. Yeah. And you know, this is the sort of thing that you are doing, you're just doing a little tiny bit of it is you are just getting them to relax. They're getting 'em to breathe, stretch, and relax. But you are also doing it in a sort of like a fun way, which again, changes their state from being, I'm really, really nervous and I don't really wanna do this. Getting them to physically take action on something changes the what they do Yeah. That's genius. They often end up smiling. It is called pation, so all the animals do it. And what you're doing is when you're stretching, you are changing your fascia, you're changing your nervous system, so you're, yeah. Releasing that tension. Out of your body. Yeah. Pation, look it up. hum. mean And singing is the other one. So you mentioned the vagus nerve. yeah, yeah, yeah. All sorts of things. So breathing breathing helps stimulate your vagus nerve and it's your vagus nerve that's responsible for the fight, flight, freeze feelings. So if you stimulate your vagus nerve, you can, it's a way of calming you down. So the breathing exercises, the mindfulness. The stretching, but humming and singing have the radio Yes, I love that. one.

I mean, I did have a student years ago, we're going probably back about 10

ago, and she hummed around her entire test. Mm-hmm.

Um,

the examiner actually told

to stop. Oh,

the examiner actually told her with about 10 minutes left

go. The examiner actually told her to stop and

then she did pass. And whilst he was filling out her certificate, he, um, he said, you need some parama before my next one. And

just

like, yeah, rude.

is that encouraging?

you

know? Yeah, I had exactly the same. Someone was a musician, singer, that sort of stuff. Mirror signal maneuver position, speak. gear. Look, she made up a song. So she would, every lesson, she would just sing herself through the routines that she was using and everything. I carried on in her test. She passed and the examiner got out the car and he said, Kev, does she do this all the time? I went, yeah, it's good, isn't it? Meant it would do me bating? You know what, it's actually with the easiest lesson I've ever had because she just tells herself to drive. Oh, yeah, yeah. At

one moment. She goes, check, check, check. And

Yep. B I mean, I would just say if you are worried, you know, if anyone is, has these quirks, these little things that they do, don't stop doing them. If you're worried about the examiner, just apologize to them beforehand and say, I'm really sorry. This is how I manage my nerves and I'm gonna do it all the way through my test

test and you're never gonna

see them again. Yeah, exactly. And it's

your test. and that's what I say as well. You've paid for that. Yeah. Would you pay that amount for

a night out and not get the best out of it? Yep. You

know, would you pay for a ticket

for somewhere and not go and enjoy it? Yeah. So they're not going, they're not marking you as a person, They're marking your Driving. don't. Yeah. Yes.

Yes.

Okay, so here's another thing that,

that could be

controversial. Um, the diff the massive, massive chasm in the standard of examiners where you've got some examiners that

come out of the waiting room and they go, hi, y have we got a Jack? How are you doing, Jack? Oh my God. Nice

to meet you and talk to everybody else in the waiting

Yeah. And then you've got some other examiners that come out and go, Jack, come here

and you are straight away nerves and on edge. Yeah. Yeah. Like

what can we do?

Like there

should be standardized.

Should be, but we can't control that. Yeah. You know, we can't control what the examiner does. We don't know what's happened on that test before your one. Yeah, it might be somebody singing all the way around. We

might just be their personality as well in the way that these students are individual, these examiners are individual and I think we've just gotta highlight the fact that some are

miserable. And what happens is if that person comes out that said examiner, cuz they probably know they've got a reputation, haven't they? examiners have a reputation so that examiner comes out and calls their name. They immediately, probably not as much as I did there, but what they do is they gasp in there so they're not breathing properly straight away. So try and, you know, if you get that examiner, who's gonna come out and say this or she's gonna come out and say this, what are you gonna do? Being more ready for that to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still, like if you go into a fancy gym like Virgin Active, right? I dunno.

Then you know that they've all had this customer service training cuz they all greet

you with a smile and a wave. Why can't we have that for examiners? Yeah. But is I've, I've, I've been in a few gyms in my time previously. Yeah. Honestly, I have,

mine was a previous life, so that's all right. mine mine is to pick the students and

bring em back out again What? to buy that chocolate box. But, but they are, they're trained. But that person might be leaving tomorrow that's on that front desk. And they don't care. Yeah, they're still not really standardized. And my thing my thing would be to have a strategy. So if you've got, and we have worked with somebody before, haven't we? Who? for her it was male examiners that were, were a problem. And so for her, we worked out a strategy. So if it was gonna be a male examiner coming out, and this would work, if it was gonna be the grumpy examiner, or the examiner you didn't want, or just somebody who was having a bad day, is having a strategy, a plan, so that that You smile at them. Like Kev says, you can't control what they do to you, but you can control you. So if your strategy is actually, I'm gonna smile and I'm gonna say hello, and I'm gonna say, how, how's your day been? Then you've got a chance of maybe shifting them around as well. So one, you've taken control and that feels really good. You've not allowed room for those thoughts again. But also if you smile and say, hi, I'm

Jack.

How's your day been today? You've got a much better chance of the examiner cracking a smile because they can't help you. If you are smiling at them, you're probably gonna take 'em

surprise.

Yeah. Yes.

I mean that's what I try and encourage cuz a lot of people, a lot to,

I'm, a, I'm a,

I'm a, I'm a talker. I love to talk and I'm, I at that

that level

with most

my students where once they're, you know, it is good to have a little bit of a

and

kind of see how they get on with

distraction driving

by holding a bit of a conversation. And then they get to the point

where

like, is the examiner gonna

do that? So you explain, okay. So they're gonna have very close conversation with you. They

say, well, if you're not here on

your test,

what would you normally be doing? So I

say to them, throw the question back at them, you know, because then. You become two people in a car just

for a drive. And I actually had a student it's quite funny. I actually had a student who'd done it,

uh, shout out Joel. And he, um, he turned around to the examiner. He said, oh, if you wasn't here at work, what would you be doing? And the examiner was like, oh, just can we just do this bay park and then I'll get back to you? Then we've gone down the corner and went, oh yeah, what? To your question? He said, oh, I'm partial to around a golf. And so Joel was like, oh yeah, I, yeah, I love a game of golf too. Watch your handicaps. I'm sitting in the back like, oh, okay. Then Joel

after and got the clue got

a clue about golf. Yeah. But I just wanted to do it in order to kind of make the situation feel a little bit normal. Yeah. Like we was just going for a drive and

a bit of a chat.

Yes.

So to encourage conversation, would

you say that's

good way to handle

nerves if somebody

used to I was, yeah. I was gonna say if they're used to talk, If they're used to talking. But it can my, I'm also thinking it can go two ways. Isn't it? It's a gamble. So if you try to open up conversation and it works, then that's gonna be fantastic because that's gonna settle everybody down. But if you get. Blanked. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Then that could go the other way.

We know there are a few examiners that do

that. Just answer questions with a yes or no. Yeah. And it just makes you feel worse cuz you think, oh, this guy hates me. Turn the radio up. I would, I shouldn't say

no, I've actually, no, I've had that on two occasion, on two occasions and one I was present on and the other, I wasn't both passed, both. Both were successful. But the one more recently, They've come back into the carpark and I've, okay, she's

pulled up and

he swung the door open. I thought, oh gosh, here we go. So I've gone over and he was just like, well, we've just been driving around Thorn and Heif, you know, listening to history and, and when after we've gone on for the drive, she was like, yeah. She said, she said, it was so silent. She went, I turned the radio up. And I was like, oh my God. But he didn't mind. He didn't mind. But then you, as you say, you get the caliber that won't mind and then those

do. Yeah. So I think if you get blanked. Then what's your strategy exactly? How are you gonna, we're having a plan. How, are, what do you need? It's your test, if silence is going to leave, make you feel really nervous, then talk to yourself. Islam, or pop the radio on. on. What do you need? Take control. Well, I try and encourage, with some of my students, if you

feel that this is something to continue doing,

um, is making

links to their learning. Other things

they may have done in life on a practical

nature, you know,

during education, were they, a performer at all. Like have they been

center stage? Have they been,

you know, the center of attention, been observed in their job and things like that. And just trying

to, what did you do in them situations to

ease your mind and settle yourself? How can we transfer

them

into a drive-in test?

Yeah. And then it gets them thinking, well actually this is

I'd done. And it wasn't actually so bad after all. Yeah. You know, afterwards like, oh actually it went well. So trying to kind of encourage them to put that, adopt that into their test. So then

kind of reduces them

of nerves. Cause they know that actually I've done something like that before. Yeah. In this how transferrable skills. It works both ways. What you learn from you guys on your lessons, you can transfer into other life areas As well. And yeah, vice versa. What you've had from your dance exams, music exams, bring into your driving. Okay, this is a good last

question from me

me cuz I'm shooting loads at you, but

when I do standards

checks, it's the worst thing in the world. The last one I did was in modern, driving

driving

center,

so

maybe five minutes before my standards check. I was physically sick in the toilets at Modern Test Center.

Past grade A, but it's just

the wor the buildup is the worst feeling. What can I do to help myself on driving tests? I do a lot of training with people, standards, check training or part three training, that sort of stuff. So the first thing is I say to people, and potentially we can have a conversation is, so what's making you feel so sick?

Being judged and tested and the potential

of

failing

and having to do it again. So what I would be doing then, probably before that, is then saying to me, right, okay, so what we need to do is have people in the car. Let's look at you being judged. Let's look at what would cause you to fail. Can't really do that five minutes before the test because we can't really, come on. Can't really do that. But what you can do is, from what you've said is. How have I been judged before my previous standards check? I was judged. My driving test, I was judged. What happened?

I

past. Yeah, and I survived. that's the thing is,

I survived. I'd done it. I got through it and it wasn't

so bad. After all, I'm being judged and it's like, okay, so then it's like, you know, is, is what planning have I done? What have I, what am I in control of on this?

Not the student. They might do something really stupid.

but what the unknown, isn't it? But that happens every lesson, doesn't it as well. That's every single lesson your student can do a, a split second, but what can I do that I'm in control of? You have a plan. I can almost guarantee you would've planned a route, a certain route. You would've planned the topic. And you would've planned the goal for your student for that session. Yep. You've, you've planned all that. You've got it all there. It's, it's being judged. Yeah, it is. It's being judged. So now you're in that five minutes before you've pulled into the test center and your students drive in and you are sitting there and you, what have I done before in this situation? Five minutes before a standards check on my driving test, what did I do? I dunno the answer to that. Only you would probably know the answer to that.

What

did you do on those previous standards? Checks and driving test?

checks probably went

to the

toilet vomited.

So in theory, what

happened was, I vomited, I was sick, but what was the end result? Past. Past, Yeah. Yeah. So if this happens again, it's it's normal for me. it's what I do as normal. Yeah. And does it matter? That I'm being sick in the toilet at five

minutes. It depends if there's a queue outside.

That's just to illustrate the level of nerves. So when students come to me and say, I'm really nervous, I, I really feel

it for them.

Yeah. Cause I know how that feels cuz we do it

too. Exactly. And we all go through this and we all mm-hmm. experience this differently. Everyone's different. They all do it. Whether it's being sick five minutes before, but up to that point, everything is fine. You know, there is, I've planned it all. I know what I'm doing. I know potentially what they're gonna do wrong. I know everything within that I know, even know probably what I'm gonna say, you know, to start with. So what you've done is everything in your power that you can do. There's nothing else that you can do. You are gonna feel nervous or is it excited? Right? Yeah. Yeah. So there's a couple of things, isn't there? There's the, you only feel stressed, nervous, anxious about the things you care about. So if you didn't care, if, then you wouldn't feel anything, it wouldn't be, it would just be, oh, I've gotta do this again, because you don't care. So one is going, okay, I feel like this because I care. is important. But then it's, imagine you were going to meet your favorite pop star rapper actor. You know, somebody that you is really famous and you really look up to. How would you be feeling? Then? You'd be feeling the same sorts of things. You'd be really excited, but you'd be really nervous, hoping you're not gonna throw up, say something, stupid, fall over any of those things. You're nerve sighted. So you are mixture of nervous and excited. You're feeling nerve excited. excited. So yeah, I'm feeling nerve excited. I'm, this is normal. I'm supposed to feel like this. The thing is, is if you feel it's going over the top, that's when you need to bring in those mindfulness or stretching or something else just to try and keep it at a normal level. But you want a little bit of it because you don't wanna miss out on those feelings of excitement and a little bit of nerves that help you perform, that help you focus and do what you need to do and remember it.

So actually when people are

saying, oh, my driving test is coming up and I'm a

a bit nervous, combat it. Don't do anything about it, embrace it cuz

it's a big thing that's coming up. Mm. And

the nerves probably

you sharp as well. Yes, they do. Yeah. They hit that adrenaline rush, don't they? You know, nerves are normal

and that's the thing, there's nothing wrong with

for feeling nervous. It's just knowing how to but find out what's causing, what's causing, them to say, yeah, I feel nervous. It's just always that fear of failure I think, isn't it? But is there anything they don't understand? Mm-hmm. Because that can be a cause of nerve. So is there anything that's still puling you? Is there anything you don't understand? And if so, you've got time to deal with that. So that's out of the way, is it? Fear of the unknown. Okay. Well what bits, what can we do so that you know as much about the test center and things as possible. Mock tests, driving in silence. If that's something that's really worrying somebody, then desensitize them to driving in silence so that that can be a tactic, that can be a strategy. Not just trying to try and all the other things that we've mentioned. And then, yeah, of course you can be a bit nervous bit. so yeah. But try and reframe it. Being excited, you know, this is, You want to do your driving test because of then you can drive. So it is a mixture of being nervous and excited. It's not just cuz if you keep saying, I'm nervous, I'm anxious, I'm nervous and anxious, you're gonna keep feeling more nervous, more anxious, You go around in a bigger circle, that comes, will gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So do embrace it, do it is normal. But also remember this is exciting as well and they feel the same.

Try and increase that level of excitement and reduce the nerves by asking questions

well Like your first solo

drive, where's the first place

wanna drive to?

Independently, you know, you get so, such a range of answers. I've had, I, I've had IKEA quite a few times recently. Yeah. One's just for the meatballs, but one is actually to buy flat pack cause they've never been able to get flat pack furniture home before. You know? Lot of the time you get seaside resorts and things like that, or theme

Costco Drive Through is the one. Costco is Costco more recently

or I

to be to be able to help my mom on my nerve. Yeah.

and, and things like

And so that turns it into actually

this is what I wanna do and I'm

get myself there. Yeah.

Yeah.

That could be done as well. I'm gonna bring back to earlier. Mm-hmm. First lesson. Yes. Yeah. You know, get that motivation. What does pass in your driving

test give

you your why?

What is your, why What is your why? Because then when they get nervous for that test, you can bring it back. Back. Yeah. They've already told you Yeah. Yeah. And that question is great because if close to the test you're saying, right. You know, you're reminding them, what, what's your first drive gonna be? And they're gonna go, I don't think I'm gonna be able to drive on my own. Then actually, you know, you need to unravel a few things. Okay. Why is that? What is it that we are not doing in lessons? That means you don't feel you're able to transfer your, what you've learned in lessons into driving on your own, there's a gap, there's something missing. So that question gives you a great opportunity to make sure that they are thinking about driving on their own and that they don't then become customers of ours who come to us and say, I passed my test five years ago and I've never driven. And that's what you're trying to avoid. Yeah.

This might be a good opportunity then to bring in,

before we

wrap up the journal,

why

how is,

we're gonna go a little bit, that.

how is journaling gonna help you throughout your driving journey to be

to be able to

reflect and give you that confidence that you have done

everything? Well, I think that's the two words you mentioned there, reflection and confidence. Yeah. Our journal is a 12 week course almost in itself, and you can track your progress and you can track through the tasks that we give people. There's prompts, there's questions, there's exercises. So it's getting you to think and then writing it down and writing things down or speaking them out loud is really important. cuz you need to get it out of your head. If things are going round and round in your head, it's really hard to process, it's really hard to move forward. You tend to get a bit stuck in your head. head. Talking to people, writing things down will help you look back on it with a little bit of distance and go, oh, okay. I do know that And it helps you process. It helps you move forward. Well, when can

I buy all? It

Amazon.

Amazon,

Good

good old

Amazon,

Awesome. That was fun And we've got so much information that we can take back and help people with. Well, before we wrap up, we need to ask you a little bit about Drive School TV and what you do so

well do we,

do,

drive school?

we just, just, we're just, a couple of couple of videos on YouTube. You know,

we have a big social media presence. We have a YouTube

which has long form, so 10 to 30 minute videos educating you on how to drive and how to do certain things in driving or coming up to your driving test. We also have a lot of

fun.

fun. We have fun. Yeah. We don't educate in a boring way. We educate in a fun, gripping

way. and it's not just pushing information at you. And education. We, um, have made lots

of fun content too. Yeah. Challenges

could be relatable as well. We're relatable.

You know, we do driving challenges, we do silly things, but also there's a message and you can learn stuff from, from our videos. We've also got a big TikTok page, uh, which is more about

small snippets of information, but mainly about fun. And Instagram is, is where we

conglomerate or combine everything together, and it's the page where we socialize with people that follow us. So send dms, comment on the videos or the posts

that we make.

And that's more of the community hub. So if you wanna come and hang out with us, come and hang out with us on Instagram. If you want some fun, go and follow us on TikTok. And if you wanna learn some stuff and have fun with it,

follow us on

YouTube, because that's it. Learning strive should be fun. You know, it's a, it's a life skill. It's, it's part

somebody's journey Yeah. through life. You know, it's a skill they're gonna have for the rest of their life. It's so important. It's so

important to

fun with it as well. Yeah. Absolutely. I, I mean, I relate that back to when I was at school. And how boring school was.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

and it's like, how can I make my lessons a little bit more interesting Mm-hmm. for, for me to find them interesting. For students to find interesting and like you say, have some fun. Have some fun. Yeah. That's like I'm, I've watched some of them

already. Yeah.

Only some

you do. So many, We do so many We have got a lot of

videos Yeah. And I think the thing there to say is, while you've set it up, mainly for learner drivers, what we would say is even if you've already passed your test, then going in and having a look, what still puzzles you, what bits of driving are making you anxious? What are the bits of knowledge that are missing? And then go and have a look. Yeah. That was, and use those YouTube videos as a. As a way of researching, a way of finding out and maybe fill in some of those gaps.

A lot

of people who follow us have already passed their test, and when people are passed their test, they carry on following because

only do you

learn some stuff and you might learn some stuff that you missed on your lessons, but we have a lot of fun. So you

get a load

of entertainment value from it too. So yeah. And that just what gives us the community feel as well,

isn't it? Driving school tv. We're not just

driving instructors Yeah. with a YouTube

channel and that we

are a community. You know, we wanna

to look after our community and give them some real great

resources that they can use We've even got a Secret Telegram

where we

we help a

small group of our core

followers who've been around for a long time and just give out help and advice Oh, that's brilliant. On

to chat. So if you

to be in the Secret Telegram group, send us a DM and tell us why.

Why we can help you. Cause we don't wanna blow it up and make it huge.

Like we've got a hundred thousand followers on

TikTok. We

can't help everyone. We're missing the messages.

And some people don't wanna put a comment under a picture

a reel that they've watched.

Some people don't. You know, what if my friend sees

Or what if

somebody sees that? So to have that kind of more direct

communication with people mm-hmm.

where they feel it's a safe environment where

they can share as well

well,

is super important. Yeah, that's fantastic. And we'll make sure we share all of the links so that everybody can find all your resources. Thanks Tracy.

you.

Thanks

Kev. We always finish with one question. Yes. You, you can take it in turns to answer, but we like to ask everybody, when you were learning to drive past, your mind back, so when you were learning, what did you find the most difficult thing? Oh,

that's a good question.

What did I find the most difficult thing?

him?

It's The quietest

rooms

ever been. Yes.

gone. You can, you can go first. You can

When I learned To drive. I learned with my friend who was a PDI training to be

instructor with bsm. So

I had no problem

with nerves or

cuz I was learning to drive with my

and I helped her out cuz

she needed some students and I

needed to learn to drive. So I think that the nerves

and anxiety never

got me. But what I did always

struggle with was the routines cuz I wanted to just go for it a hundred miles an hour and then, oh yeah, I forgot to do mirror signal. Oh. But I'm at the junction, Cut. it's clear. Let's go. I

I think for me, my instructor, we used to Pi, he used to piggyback

lot. Um,

there was a girl that I was at six form with, luckily she was a friend. Um, but we used to obviously be able to support each other, help each other when things weren't going quite right and talk about outside of

lessons and things like that. So I think for me, I think I found it

it more

difficult when I was Len, I didn't have anybody to show my skills to when it was

just, was just

and I. So

once again, it

back to that whole having somebody in the back Yeah.

In order to help

carry mm-hmm. Make you feel more com, uh, comfortable and confident. So, nice. fantastic. Lovely. Thank you. Thank you. Brilliant.

What about you when you were learning

to drive?

I didn't find anything

difficult

roundabouts for me because my first instructor didn't teach me roundabouts properly. So he didn't explain when to go? He Didn't explain the gaps. Okay. Didn't explain how to work that out. It was a just case. Just a case of if there's someone coming, don't go. And if there isn't, you know, but he didn't explain. So

you'd had our

YouTube channel?

in the

Yes. Well, I've I've seen it since. Yeah. But no, my second instructor just got out a pen and a paper and said, this is how roundabouts work. Well, you know, and explained if this is happening, then do this, and if this is happening, then do this. And I went, okay, I've got it. Got it. Yeah. Brilliant.

Excellent. Thanks guys. No

problem. Thank you very much, Thank

you.

Thank you for listening. Find out about the different ways that you can work with us on our website, www.confidentdrivers.co.uk, and begin to transform the way you feel about driving.