[00:00:00] [00:00:30] Hey, what's going

[00:00:57] Kyle: on? Can you hear me? [00:01:00] Yeah, I can. I can. Do you want to just do audio? Do you want to do video too or? Well, I don't care. Whatever you, uh, good for you. Yeah, if you want to turn on your video, that's great. I do use, uh, I do use some of the video for social content and, you know, to promote the podcast, but whatever you're comfortable with, man.

[00:01:14] Mic Rodgers: That's fine. I just gotta figure out how to get, uh.

[00:01:20] Kyle: Cool, man. Thank you for your time today, by the way.[00:01:30]

[00:01:30] Mic Rodgers: I can see you, but, uh, can you see me?

[00:01:32] Kyle: I can't see you yet. No.

[00:01:35] Mic Rodgers: These things There

[00:01:40] Kyle: you are. Hey, buddy. Look at that garage.

[00:01:43] Mic Rodgers: Yeah. You know, my little, uh, my bike there and stuff.

[00:01:49] Kyle: Yeah. Love it. So what I'll do is, um, I'll, uh, we're already recording. I'm going to post at it anyway. So I'll, I'll launch in, pretend like we just got on the phone and say, Hey, what's going on, Mick?[00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Kyle: Um, the, um, I'll go through the question. What is your absolute time cutoff? I know I said 10 minutes. Um, is 10 minutes your limit? Yeah.

[00:02:07] Mic Rodgers: Uh, you know, it can be a little

[00:02:08] Kyle: longer. Okay, cool. I'll do the questions and then I'll, I'll do a, I'll do a soft close where I say, Hey, thanks for your time. And, but, uh, you know, 20 seconds after I just want to get a temperature for how you feel.

[00:02:18] Kyle: Do you feel good about it? And obviously I'll, if you want a final edit, I'll send it to you for approval before we put it on the feed, but you know, I'll just get your feel for the, you know, how you felt about how it went and we can go on our merry [00:02:30] way. Okay, great. Awesome. All right. I'll count down on my head and I'll just get us going.

[00:02:35] Kyle: Mick, what's going on, man? How are you doing? I'm good. Good. Look at that garage.

[00:02:40] Mic Rodgers: It's a little windy here in California. That's why my garage door's shut.

[00:02:44] Kyle: Yeah. Look at that bike. One of many. That's awesome. I would expect nonetheless from a, from a careered stunt coordinator and stunt man yourself. I knew you were a stunt coordinator, but I was reading earlier.

[00:02:57] Kyle: You also did, you were a double for Mel Gibson for years as [00:03:00] well. Is that true?

[00:03:01] Mic Rodgers: Yeah. I'm still working with him. In fact, we're going to start a lethal weapon five soon.

[00:03:06] Kyle: Oh man. Well, I'm a, I'm actually a diehard, uh, mad Max Road Warrior fan as well. So that's, uh, that really, that got me excited. Yeah. So let's get started.

[00:03:17] Kyle: Uh, you know, I want to get, the reason we reached out to you is 'cause we covered the Fast and Furious. We do, you know, battle. So we did point break first, the Fast and Furious, um, and was really just blown away by, uh, the. You know, [00:03:30] your proprietary invention, the McRig, right? And so you got a technical innovation award for that.

[00:03:35] Kyle: Before we go into that, do you want to go in just to your career? What, you know, where you got started, what you're doing today?

[00:03:40] Mic Rodgers: I started, uh, like 1971 is when I got interested, uh, by 72, I was working at Knott's Berry Farm as a gunfighter. And by 73, I was in the actual Screen Actors Guild and, uh, working as a stunt guy.

[00:03:56] Mic Rodgers: And then within, by 76, [00:04:00] I was coordinating a show and TV shows and directing second units. And that's really all I've done. It was one of my mentors, Bob Bass, who, uh, he called me and he goes, this is not stepping backwards. This is, I want you to double this guy on this show called Lethal Weapon. And his name's Mel Gibson.

[00:04:22] Mic Rodgers: He was Mad Max. And I'm like, whatever you want me to do, Bobby, I'll do it. So. He's the one that put me together with with Mel and Mel [00:04:30] and I have worked together ever since.

[00:04:33] Kyle: That's awesome. Um, so let's talk about the Fast and the Furious. So, you know, the way I wanted to pose this question is, you know, on the special features you elaborate, you know, or they talk about how this invention changed the way, you know, you could use stars and chasings.

[00:04:49] Kyle: Can you kind of explain the problem that was solved by your invention and how it not only impacted the Fast and the Furious, but You know, chase scenes and car scenes in general for the, for cinema since [00:05:00] then.

[00:05:00] Mic Rodgers: Well, it was always traditionally done. Um, you know, you would, uh, shoot a plate, you know, from a camera car, uh, of the chase scene, and then actors would be on stage with either rear screen projection or later it became a green screen.

[00:05:21] Mic Rodgers: Um, and it was just, you know, bad, you know, I'm a big fan and still think that, uh, bullet is the, [00:05:30] High water mark of card chases, because basically, and I worked with Peter Yates. A couple, three times, and he's a great guy and he was very giving with all the information that I asked, you know, it's like, they just put a camera on the hood of a Mustang and let Steve McQueen go, he was capable of doing that, he was capable of doing all the driving, there's only two shots in that movie that he's not driving, and one is the release of the Challenger into [00:06:00] the gas station, that's Bud Eakins, And the other is when the car slides into the ditch at the very end, that's Bud Eakins.

[00:06:09] Mic Rodgers: But the rest of the time, it's Steve McQueen. And I also asked Bud Eakins, Bud Eakins, and he goes, no, no, Steve did all the driving. I didn't do anything. I think it's the high watermark. And so I just was always wanting to find out a way to figure out a way to put an actor in a [00:06:30] Steve McQueen situation and make it believable.

[00:06:33] Mic Rodgers: And Fast and Furious came along and I'd worked several things, uh, you know, burning a wire with Rob Cohen when he was a producer. And, uh, I just went to a, uh, hobby store and bought a couple of models. And I built the McBride with a detachable car and, you know, and I pitched the idea to Doug Claiborne, the producer and Rob Cohen, the director.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Mic Rodgers: And they were like, Well, that'd be great. Sure. How much is it going to cost? And Matt Sweeney, who is the special effects coordinator guy I work with a lot, he's a brilliant guy, mad scientist. He, um, he told them, you know, 30, 000. And they were like, oh, gosh, you know, that was like, oh, you know, that was complete.

[00:07:23] Mic Rodgers: That was like buying the, the body of the van that we started with and building the thing and building a [00:07:30] car on it. And. But that clay barn was cool. He goes, well, you know, give me a breakdown of how many shots we're going to say from green screen. Cause they had like almost four weeks of green screen to shoot.

[00:07:41] Mic Rodgers: And I hate green screen. It's just fake, especially the day stuff. It's hard to fake. So, so I came back with like 172 shots. Wow. You're kidding. I go, no, we'll just use it. We'll just shoot the whole thing live. So they, they, they agreed to, [00:08:00] to build it. Sweeney built it. We built it, uh, and, you know, I was there like supervising and, you know, what I wanted, because the idea was to have a fast vehicle that you just put the body on of any car, cut the floorboards out.

[00:08:17] Mic Rodgers: It's just, it's just a mock up. It's a buck. That's all it is. And we built the first car on, uh, the green car, the entire rig, I went and weighed it. [00:08:30] Was 2, 800 pounds.

[00:08:32] Well, it

[00:08:33] Mic Rodgers: had four 60 in it and it worked really fast. We were at Whiteman air force, uh, white Whiteman airport out in the Valley of the San Fernando and Doug came out to look at it and we wanted him to see what we were doing with it.

[00:08:48] Mic Rodgers: And, uh, I knew it was going to work great. Cause I'd already been pitching it around and sliding it and stuff. And we put Doug in there, put a little video camera on there and I threw some 180s [00:09:00] and some reverse 180s and he came out and he go, and he just, he grabbed the camera and he ran, he ran back to the studio.

[00:09:09] Mic Rodgers: He showed it to, uh, to Rob Cohen and that was the end of the, it was like the schedule changed all the, all the green screen was out, but they did like four days of green screen. And, uh, The rest of the time, there isn't one shot in Fast and Furious that isn't on the McRig, except for one shot. [00:09:30] And there's a shot of, that was his name, uh, guy, he killed himself, uh, Star.

[00:09:37] Kyle (2): Oh, Paul Walker.

[00:09:38] Mic Rodgers: Paul Walker, sorry. Paul Walker slides up the camera and shoots the gun.

[00:09:44] Kyle (2): Mm hmm.

[00:09:44] Mic Rodgers: With the motorcycle guys. That's the only shot that's, that he did. Wow. That's the only shot that anyone's driving.

[00:09:51] Kyle: Wow. That's, that is incredible. And before it wasn't just green screen too, right? There was a, wasn't it that they use like a trailer platform too?

[00:09:58] Kyle: Didn't they like have an assembly? Well,

[00:09:59] Mic Rodgers: [00:10:00] you could tow a car, which is really bad. I mean, you know, they put cars, they would hook them up to the bumper and, or they would just roll them on a trailer. And the problem with insert cars, they're so big and heavy. They're not safe at all. They're just for going down the road and shooting things, you know, and filming buildings and shit.

[00:10:23] Mic Rodgers: They just don't, they turn over, but several accidents where guys were killed and, [00:10:30] and so what, we took it out and, and I, I built the thing specifically for stunts, for action sequences. There's the driver's seat, there's the passenger seat, which is turned around backwards for the director so he can watch his actors.

[00:10:48] Mic Rodgers: And there's no, there's only like one, two places, you know, you can put a hood mount on it. And, you know, Coen being Coen and any director, they all, they all, they don't [00:11:00] understand like what's, what, The difference is, you know, they, they start putting up a second, a third camera, a little, little boom or something, a movement.

[00:11:08] Mic Rodgers: I was like, don't do that. And they're like, why not? And I'm like, gives it away. He's like, I know this for a fact. I mean, I I've shown bullet to my mom. And other shows to my mom where they had like a toe shot and the camera's moving back and forth because it's already in it. You know, the camera guy wants to do it.

[00:11:28] Mic Rodgers: The director thinks it's already. [00:11:30] I go, what's the difference? She goes, I don't know, but this one's fake. Wow.

[00:11:35] Because

[00:11:36] Mic Rodgers: the camera's moving. Wow. That's it's like, it's an illusion.

[00:11:41] Yeah. If

[00:11:42] Mic Rodgers: you hard mount a side mount or, you know, hostess tray or a hood mount and you go and drive a car, you get a different effect.

[00:11:52] Mic Rodgers: And you as the audience are watching it and the camera's moving with the car and you're like, wow, he's just [00:12:00] driving. And that's what we wanted to do.

[00:12:04] Kyle: You know, earlier you talked about the green screen. Like, now I'm wondering, without the invention, without you successfully getting, convincing them to use that, it would have been a different movie.

[00:12:14] Kyle: Like, would that movie have been as exhilarating visually without No. No, right? All that chase stuff is

[00:12:21] Mic Rodgers: You know, at speed. I mean, like a truck hijacking, uh, out in the desert. You know, we're, we're [00:12:30] doing 60, 70 miles an hour. When Debbie Evans doubles, uh, Michelle, uh, Rodriguez and drives underneath the car, that's 70 miles an hour.

[00:12:42] Mic Rodgers: I mean, and there's not a lot of room there. You know, we did the opening sequence. I shot the entire opening sequence of the night hijacking. That's all second unit. There's no first unit, except for some inserts of the insert of the cab that you did at the end of the show, you know, we're, we're doing. 70, 80 miles an [00:13:00] hour

[00:13:00] Kyle: with that truck.

[00:13:01] Kyle: That's amazing. Does this, does this new, does this, I mean, obviously not new now this was 2001, but how did this impact stars desire to, to be in the vehicles? Because was there before with the danger element, that's why they have stunt doubles, right? But is there are agents or whoever's responsible for ensuring their stars don't die or get hurt?

[00:13:21] Kyle: Paul

[00:13:21] Mic Rodgers: Walker loved it. He thought it was a lot of fun. Uh, you know, Vin could care less. She. He's about [00:13:30] Vin. Yeah. Yeah. But in training, you know, I took Michelle Rodriguez and, uh, the other gal, uh, Jordana, Jordana Brewster, and, In 30 minutes I had them doing like 180s right beside me. You know, it's easy to pick up, but we never, we never utilize that.

[00:13:54] Mic Rodgers: I just, you know, we just did it so they could have fun. They all love it. And, uh, but the [00:14:00] problem is it's a specific piece of equipment that requires The destruction of the car. I've got, I've turned down countless, countless commercials of brand, you know, like Mercedes wants to use it for their brand new Mercedes.

[00:14:16] Mic Rodgers: I go, good. We're going to cut it up, but we can't do that. So they always fall back to like the price. They don't want to commit a car to being destroyed. Uh, it [00:14:30] generated all the other copycats. The go rig and you know, where it is, just a motor that's connected to the, the firewall of another car. And of course it breaks once in a while and, and they've had problems.

[00:14:45] Mic Rodgers: Then the next one that was built, uh, which gets mo most of the business, is called the biscuit. It's a, it's a flatbed with a motor in. And it has a steering pod that you can move [00:15:00] around or put it on top of the car. So you can roll full car on it and then put the steering pod on top of the car. So you don't see it.

[00:15:09] Mic Rodgers: And, Oh, you can shoot 360 and all this stuff. It's like, so what? It's a stupid shot.

[00:15:15] Yeah.

[00:15:15] Mic Rodgers: You know, I know it's like, Oh, we'll have a shot of the driver. going forward, but he's looking back, you know, so we really see it. I go, that's a stupid shot. You know, it's, it's not, it's not that, it's not that [00:15:30] maneuverable.

[00:15:31] Mic Rodgers: It's heavy. It's called the biscuit because they originally made it for sea biscuit where they put the fake horse on it and drove it around the racetrack. Wow. You know, my, the, the McRiggs highly specific about what, you know, you gotta be committed to doing a chase. So for a one day chase, it's not worth it.

[00:15:53] Mic Rodgers: You know, it was worth it for Fast and Furious because it was, it was, there were two, we built two and, uh, [00:16:00] they were just constantly being used. The whole opening sequence, uh, in Dodger Stadium is on the McRae. That's incredible. Paul never drove. He never actually drove the car.

[00:16:10] Kyle: What's it like then, um, to, so in your field, when it comes to, you know, your career, what is it like and what does it take to, you got a Technical Achievement Award, right?

[00:16:19] Kyle: In recognition, so does that, is that? Matt Sweeney and I both. That doesn't happen regularly, right? We talked to Tim McGovern who got the achievement award for CGI [00:16:30] on total recall, that's like a once in a lifetime thing, right? Yeah. It's an Academy award.

[00:16:35] Mic Rodgers: You know, I'm one of the few stunt guys that has, it's a technical achievement award, but.

[00:16:39] Mic Rodgers: Still, it's an Academy Award. And, but you know, Matt, you know, he, he comes up, he goes, Hey, I'm putting the MFer in for an Academy Award. I'm like, , why? You know? And he goes, oh, it won't be no biggie. I'm like, okay. And it, he called up one day and they go, yeah, we won, [00:17:00] so we gotta go get tuxes. I'm like, okay. Far out.

[00:17:04] Mic Rodgers: It's cool. I think that's like past and furious is I'm more proud of the fact that we got the world Taurus award for best action picture. The Taurus. Are you familiar with the Taurus awards?

[00:17:14] Kyle: I'm not. No. What is that?

[00:17:16] Mic Rodgers: Uh, Red Bull. Uh, they have the world Taurus, uh, action awards. You can look it up, you know, and we got the very first one for Fast and Furious for the total picture.

[00:17:29] Mic Rodgers: [00:17:30] Incredible. Also got, I got another one for Fast and Furious 4. So, and I got another one for Hacksaw Ridge. So,

[00:17:38] Kyle (2): oh yeah, Hacksaw Ridge. I saw you were on that. That's incredible.

[00:17:42] Kyle: I, I love that. And does it, do you think it speaks to, you know, cause for me, it's like, We're spoiled a lot of the movies we cover. I love, you can see, I got a Robocop poster, you know, my favorite movies, taxi driver.

[00:17:52] Kyle: So I'm very old school with my, my passions. But what I love about your story with this invention is that sometimes you kind of think innovation's [00:18:00] over, you know what I mean? Like it's like, there's so much technology in movies now with CGI, but it's, so what you're telling me is it sounds like there's still, there's still much innovation to be had in film.

[00:18:11] Mic Rodgers: Yeah. Then, you know, like I said, here's the deal, the, the Fast and Furious two, that director didn't want to use it. Why? He just didn't want to use it. I wasn't on it. Fast and Furious 3. I actually interviewed to direct Tokyo Drift. [00:18:30] It's between me and Justin Lin and they picked Justin because he's Asian.

[00:18:36] Mic Rodgers: You could tell it's an Asian story. I'm like, I don't understand that, but okay.

[00:18:40] Kyle: Okay.

[00:18:41] Mic Rodgers: Uh, he didn't want to use it. He's, he's more, and most directors are happier sitting in their director's chair having a cappuccino while you're setting up green screen. It's easy. It's nice. It's clean. [00:19:00] The make rig is dirty.

[00:19:02] Mic Rodgers: You gotta work, you're working, you're out in the sun, you know, the motor's running, you know, there's, you know, there's a certain amount of risk involved, you know, you gotta, it's still, you're plotting out a stunt sequence, and it has to be done a certain way. But there's so many guys, I didn't want it actually after the show, uh, my buddies that were working on the show for me, they were like, you know, we got to buy it.

[00:19:28] Mic Rodgers: We're going to rent it. We're going to like, you [00:19:30] know, and universal would only sell it to me because I, I invented it. So I, we bought it as a group. I'm not part of the group anymore. Cause I, I was never into the rental business. There's only, there's certain ways to use it that makes it effective. It's like, if you, you don't need to slide it only in certain situations, you know, just driving hard around corners, gets the illusion going, uh, stuff like [00:20:00] that.

[00:20:00] Mic Rodgers: You know, it's like, it's never been used to its fullest potential ever because I'm not directing. If I was directing, it would get used to its fullest potential. I have a movie that I'm trying to get going. That's all in a car. Where I can use it to its fullest potential.

[00:20:18] Kyle: So is there any situation where they're using this, where you're not involved that they're using the rig, they have to call you?

[00:20:24] Kyle: Is that kind of how it is?

[00:20:25] Mic Rodgers: Well, like I, no, well, one of the other guys was in charge of renting [00:20:30] it. I, I'm no longer in the group that owns it.

[00:20:33] Kyle: That's what that meant. Okay. That makes, that makes sense. Now

[00:20:36] Mic Rodgers: I'm just like, you know, I was like, you know, I'm done. You know, I did what I wanted to do was, was invent something that was really cool, that makes sense.

[00:20:46] Mic Rodgers: But I've never seen anybody use it the way it's really supposed to be used. Like on Starsky and Hutch, one of my brothers, you know, they rented it. I'm okay. Great. And I told him how to set up the car and [00:21:00] all this stuff. And I was on the show. I was just, you know, turns out they just got lazy and is, has rolled the car up onto the back of the McRiggin.

[00:21:09] Mic Rodgers: Now it weighs 4,000 pounds. I'm like, dude, are you trying to break this thing? You can't do that shit, you know?

[00:21:16] Kyle: Yeah,

[00:21:17] Mic Rodgers: no, it's great. It's working great. I'm like, okay, whatever. You know.

[00:21:21] Kyle: Is that the Ben Stiller Owen Wilson remake version you're talking about? Yeah.

[00:21:26] Mic Rodgers: I had made something before. [00:21:30] It was called the swivel car, re made it for intersection.

[00:21:34] Mic Rodgers: I was doubling Richard Gere running the show for uh, mark Del and uh. The whole thing's about the, the intersection and the crashes and stuff and now it crashes and it's a Mercedes Benz. It's a, it's a 270 SEL, like the little sports car thing. It's an older one. It was like a 76 and uh, I was literally [00:22:00] talking to the effects guy who's, he's passed away now and could, you know, I had my cars and I said, could you, if I, could you, could you give me a chassis and turn this thing?

[00:22:09] Mic Rodgers: And cause yeah, I can build that. Pitched to Mark Rydell. He, he bought it right there during the production meeting and we built it. We also used a swivel car on Twister. Oh, wow. All that stuff in the ditch.

[00:22:24] Kyle: Yeah,

[00:22:25] Mic Rodgers: that's in the swivel car.

[00:22:27] Kyle: That's incredible. The ditch scene. That's one of my favorite [00:22:30] movies and one of my favorite scenes.

[00:22:31] Kyle: That's incredible. That was your invention.

[00:22:33] Mic Rodgers: Yes, I'll send you the pictures of the swivel car. It's nasty. But you can spin the car 360 or any way you want. It's practical but it's not because it's like tennis is too tall And that's why I like the mic rig. I made it simpler because you just measure the door height And that's how you cut you cut the buck down to that height

[00:22:59] Kyle: and it's [00:23:00] perfect with the swivel rig Is there any modification to the vehicle or do you you can you can just slap it?

[00:23:05] Kyle: I'm saying it's

[00:23:06] Mic Rodgers: it's

[00:23:06] Kyle: it's just a buck Okay,

[00:23:09] Mic Rodgers: we actually I drove it And Brent Woosley, my Canadian stunt coordinator, we shot it in Vancouver. He's on, we're both on either side of the motor, in front of the front wheels, in like 401 pods. It's, you don't want to stick your head up because the hood would come by and like, chop your head off.[00:23:30]

[00:23:30] Kyle: It's, it's, it's wild. That's incredible. Oh, Twister's a callback. I love that. Um, switching a little gear, and I love talking about this, but you mentioned, um, Brewster and Rodriguez earlier. Were you the one that, they didn't have driver's license when they, were you the one? I didn't want to know how to drive a car.

[00:23:46] Kyle: And you took them out formula one, right? Were you the one that took the cat out? Oh, that wasn't you. I can't remember.

[00:23:50] Mic Rodgers: There was, there was a, there was a, uh, uh, you know, Rob wanted everyone. He took everyone to Vegas to [00:24:00] drive for a one pointless, pointless. That's just a stroke for the actors. And for Rob, they go have fun.

[00:24:09] Mic Rodgers: I took them to the parking lot and it was a LAPD police academy. And we just had a stunt car, you know, with a locked off e brake and said, this is what you do. And I'm going to stand here. You're going to drive right beside me. And when you get beside me, you're going to hit the e brake and pump the wheel.[00:24:30]

[00:24:30] Mic Rodgers: And I'll be camera. And I, and I, I've zoomed right into a closeup on within 30 minutes, either one, they were kind of off because stunt driving is not race driving. Two totally different things.

[00:24:46] Kyle: Yeah, I drive a camera. I'm the, I've never gotten a speeding ticket. Do you think you could take me out? A person like me who's really scared and in 30 minutes, could you turn me into a stunt driver?

[00:24:56] Kyle: Okay. That's amazing. I can't imagine myself [00:25:00] as that, but I believe you. You just

[00:25:01] Mic Rodgers: need the space and you need a car. And somebody like me that knows like what you're supposed to do for the shot.

[00:25:10] Kyle (2): Yeah.

[00:25:11] Mic Rodgers: It's all about getting a piece of footage. It's not about like how well you drift.

[00:25:18] Kyle: Yeah. The space is important.

[00:25:19] Kyle: I'm trying to imagine myself in a Walmart parking lot, trying to teach myself. That's not going to work out. Right. You need the right space.

[00:25:24] Mic Rodgers: No, you'll, you'll get arrested.

[00:25:27] Kyle: Yeah. Well, that's fantastic. You know, [00:25:30] the, what I'd want to close up with is, you know, you, you've mentioned some of your recent works, Hacksaw Ridge, you know, I'd love to know more about what you did on that, but also you talked about Loaded, or Lethal Weapon 5, you know, anything new you're working on that you want to talk about or promote, or?

[00:25:41] Mic Rodgers: Well, I can't talk about Lethal Weapon 5. It's just, you know, Mel's directing. Dick Donner was going to direct, but he passed away and, uh, He told Warner brothers and he told Mel, he told me, he goes, I want Mel to direct it. If anything happens to me, I've had over the last two [00:26:00] years, I had like three meetings with Dick at his office about stunts and action and stuff.

[00:26:05] Mic Rodgers: You know, he's Dick was my kind of like directorial mentor. slash father figure. Love the guy. He's fantastic. Great storyteller. And Mel is a great storyteller. So it's going to be, it's a little darker than what we're used to. So

[00:26:26] Kyle: it's going to be good. That makes sense that if Mel's [00:26:30] directing it, it's going to be a little darker, but Doesn't that kind of come full circle?

[00:26:33] Kyle: Because wasn't throughout that franchise, wasn't that a thing? It was like, as Mel, as his, as his, uh, you know, reputation as a director, as we start seeing his great films, wasn't it kind of like, why isn't Mel starting to direct as they started making more sequels? So it kind of comes full circle in a great way if you're a fan of that franchise.

[00:26:49] Mic Rodgers: He's a great director. He really is. Um, it's funny, uh, on, uh, leave a little up in two. At one point he [00:27:00] dies. Mel dies. He died in the ship's hull. There's a scene where they shot where he died. And I was telling Dick, that's fantastic. He should die because it's ripped the audience's heart out and all this.

[00:27:13] Mic Rodgers: Are you kidding? They're not going to let me kill the goose that lays the golden egg. He's, he's gold. So they shot the other scene where, uh, where he lives and you know, give me a kiss and all that shit, which is really good. And, and, uh, that's like, you [00:27:30] know, my mind goes to like a weird shit.

[00:27:33] Kyle: Wow, I know, and it's amazing when it happens, like they want to, you know, they wanted to kill Rambo in First Blood too, and studios always got to come and be like, you know, we want to make like four more of these, right?

[00:27:44] Mic Rodgers: No, once they see it, once they see you. some footage and they see where it's going. And you know, the, you know, even bad pictures get a sequel.

[00:27:52] Kyle: Oh yeah. Plenty of them. Well, that's awesome. Um, thank you so much for your time [00:28:00] today. And this has been really great, man. I so much to learn. And I love the green screen thing you told me about that really blew my mind that you, you literally changed that film.

[00:28:08] Mic Rodgers: The old way to do it was they would shoot the plate and you would get a on sound stages called rear screen projection. And you have to have like a 150 foot throw. In other words, the screens are 150 feet behind the car and then they move lights and they flash and you got grips pushing the [00:28:30] rock in the car.

[00:28:31] Mic Rodgers: That was like the old school that, and that worked really well. It was just, you know, figured out how to do it digitally. And that's the other problem is like, like Fast and Furious 4, the studio wanted me. They didn't want the other coordinator who was a great guy, but you know, Justin Lin wanted, you know, somebody else.

[00:28:54] Mic Rodgers: So they kind of forced me on him and he introduced me to all his [00:29:00] kids. He's got like 10 guys doing digital, the entire chase, all the, all the action. And they're like, isn't this great? And I'm like, no, it looks like shit.

[00:29:11] Kyle (2): Yeah.

[00:29:12] Mic Rodgers: And it was the studio and it said, no, he's going to go shoot a live sequence. The opening sequence with the tanker trucks.

[00:29:20] Mic Rodgers: That's all second unit. That's all mine. And just to know he just shot a couple of shots. He was, he didn't dig it. He didn't dig being put [00:29:30] like that.

[00:29:30] And

[00:29:31] Mic Rodgers: then other stuff happened and, uh, he never really wanted me. So I got fired three quarters of the way through and, uh, which is fine. And, uh, then they show the sequence and a friend of mine, Mike Gunther, who is running the fight section of it for me, you know, show the sequence and Neil Morris is there and Justin Lin there was just raving about the opening sequence how bitching it is and all this shit and he goes yeah this is from the guy you fired I [00:30:00] go

[00:30:00] Kyle: you

[00:30:01] Mic Rodgers: did and I know that he said it because a couple other people told me he did so

[00:30:05] Kyle: yeah well so Phil my co host I wanted him to come on he was he was double booked but one of the reasons we covered because not only is he a fan of the franchise but he's a diehard he's a car person like he's obsessed with cars um I think based on my conversation with him like you One of the reasons he is drawn to the first one is because of the realism.

[00:30:23] Kyle: Um, I think car people know, right? The whole zeitgeist around the first one was they actually had car people as [00:30:30] extras. You know, they had them bring their own cars. It's a car people film. Hey, I had

[00:30:33] Mic Rodgers: to choreograph to ditch out of, uh, when they ditch out of the street, we got like 200 tuner cars, all background guys.

[00:30:44] Mic Rodgers: I had to choreograph how to get them off the street. In 10 seconds, believe me, that was a, that was a night. That was a weird night. That was like, you know, you guys, I have to have a meeting with all these cats that don't give a fuck about what I'm doing. You know, [00:31:00] they don't give a shit. And I'm like, you gotta give a shit.

[00:31:03] Mic Rodgers: Cause you're going to wreck one of your cars and you can't go. And they did it. And it was,

[00:31:07] Kyle: it was tough. Well, at this point you let you have 30 years of Hollywood film experience and all these extras are just these car people. You have four, you had 40 at this point. Yeah. So you're at this point. Sorry. I misjudged the number.

[00:31:19] Kyle: You have 40 going on 50 years of experience. But at this point, you got all these extras that have never made a movie. They're just car people. I never made

[00:31:24] Mic Rodgers: a movie. I don't care who I am. You're trying to tell them what to do at night, nonetheless. [00:31:30] Oh, it was like Braveheart, you know, with 2, 000 Irish soldiers.

[00:31:34] Kyle: Oh, we haven't talked about Braveheart yet. We covered that as well. So you were you, so you were still, you were Mel's double, but you also did the coordination on that too, right? Yeah. And the second unit, I shot all the battle sequences. How do you do all that at the same time? I mean, that's intense, right?

[00:31:49] Kyle: Busy. Yeah, you're busy. But one, they're totally different types of work, right? You're coordinating, but you're actually doing the stunts for Mel. I mean,

[00:31:56] Mic Rodgers: He's, he's, he's the only guy [00:32:00] that I would double and direct at the same time for second units. I don't do it for other shows. I didn't do it for Fast and Furious.

[00:32:07] Mic Rodgers: I don't get in front of camera. I don't get in front of camera on Hacksaw Ridge because he's not in it. So, yeah, and he won't let me double him anymore because he doesn't want me to get hurt.

[00:32:19] Kyle: Really?

[00:32:20] Mic Rodgers: Yeah. It's like a mother hand about that.

[00:32:22] Kyle: Yeah. Well, that's not uncommon though, right? Um, I, I remember reading about, is it Chad Stahelski who directs John Wick was Keanu's guy [00:32:30] for years.

[00:32:30] Kyle: Do you, what is it about that? I mean, relationship, I mean, it, it just seems natural that as a stunt man and as, and the person he's doubling is there's a relationship that just happens there. I mean, is that common

[00:32:41] Mic Rodgers: to two individuals? I mean, Hal Needham and Burt Reynolds were tight. Uh, you know, Chad and Keanu are tight.

[00:32:49] Mic Rodgers: You know, they respect each other. Mel and I respect each other. Mel doesn't do, he doesn't direct a show unless he calls me. He goes and acts. That's a [00:33:00] different thing. I don't care, you know, because I'm not doubling him anymore. So

[00:33:05] Kyle: that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, and you guys get hurt. I mean, Chad Stahelski on the matrix broke ribs and broke a femur, I think.

[00:33:12] Kyle: So, I mean, Mel's concern is legitimate. He's complaining

[00:33:15] Mic Rodgers: about

[00:33:15] Kyle: that.

[00:33:16] Mic Rodgers: Then he's a puss,

[00:33:20] Kyle: man. I love the stunt man talk. I love it.

[00:33:22] Mic Rodgers: No, Chad, Chad's a good guy. He's really talented and uh, he was in brand x for a while and he was a [00:33:30] Butting heads with other guys because he wanted to to go, you know He he had developed 87 11 and you know the fight stuff and all that stuff and and some guys were like well Either you're in brand x or you're in 87 11.

[00:33:42] Mic Rodgers: What the fuck, you know, which is it? and he didn't know what to do and it was like he didn't want to piss people off and I I saw him I Talked to him at the at the Uh, after a meeting one night, I said, dude, you want to direct, right? And he goes, yeah, he goes, then you should just fucking fire, fire on [00:34:00] it.

[00:34:00] Mic Rodgers: Just quit the group and go. Doesn't mean anything. Don't, don't let all this stunt men bullshit holds you back.

[00:34:10] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:34:11] Mic Rodgers: And a couple of days later he resigned and, uh, took off.

[00:34:16] Kyle: Yeah.

[00:34:17] Mic Rodgers: You're a talented guy.

[00:34:19] Kyle: Yeah. And he, he made the transition to directing pretty seamlessly to that channel. Yeah.

[00:34:27] Mic Rodgers: I, I'm bad because I don't [00:34:30] lean on Mel.

[00:34:31] Mic Rodgers: I don't lean on him. I don't call him up and say, hey man, I'm going to direct a picture with you in it.

[00:34:36] Kyle: Yeah. You got people calling you for work. Like if, if, if it's not, if Mel doesn't work, you don't work. You got other work.

[00:34:41] Mic Rodgers: I've turned down 10, 15 shows as a director. Oh, by the way, you know, and you can get Mel in it.