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Jamie Seeker: Welcome back to what it takes, where we dive deep into the journeys of entrepreneurs and business owners as they share their wins, challenges, and lessons from their paths to success. Today I'm so excited we have a very special guest. Shannon Englert, the visionary owner of Dyad immigration law. Shannon combines her passion for language, culture.

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Jamie Seeker: and law to help businesses and families navigate the complexities of immigration from her early days as a translator to becoming a managing Attorney Shannon's journey has been driven by her dedication to strengthening communities through compassionate legal support.

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Jamie Seeker: We'll explore the challenges of running a mission driven law firm, and the vital work that Dyad does to help individuals achieve their American dream. So welcome. Shannon.

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Shannon Englert: Thank you so much for having me.

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Jamie Seeker: Yes, I'm so excited we're getting to talk like this. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey that led you from working as a translator to then. Now where you are founding dyad immigration law.

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Shannon Englert: So I really thought my career was going to be would be a translator interpreter, and and I worked to get certified in in that area. And I was working with an immigration firm. And I kind of was just noticing the needs of the clients weren't always met, and it was more run from a business need. And I truly started seeing just how wonderful these people were, and hardworking and and decided. You know what I

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Shannon Englert: I think I can do better. I can serve them better than they're being served from from like are the attorney I work for was really great, but

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Shannon Englert: we need more of us out there. We need more advocates. And so yeah, I just decided, Hey, let's go to law school and and do it. And really

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Shannon Englert: go for this. This mission driven ideal instead of just practicing my Spanish and getting to keep my language skills up. I was, yeah, let's let's let's go all the way, and really make a difference.

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Jamie Seeker: That's awesome. And I think it's a certain type of person that can see something, and then somebody else who one has the means and 2, the drive and the passion to actually do something about it. So

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Jamie Seeker: what happened was there like a deep, that kind of grabbed onto that deep connection to immigration law. How did your experience in maybe chile play a role in that.

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Shannon Englert: So great question. I I was an exchange student in Chile, and my visa expired, and I went, and I was able to get a

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Shannon Englert: an extension to stay as a tourist. But

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Shannon Englert: I realized really quickly, hey, even though I want to stay in this country, I can't. And it's really hard.

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Shannon Englert: and there was no one guiding me on on what I could do. And and so at the time I was fortunate enough to

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Shannon Englert: be okay to come home, and

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Shannon Englert: that was just economically what the only thing I could do. I couldn't afford to stay, and

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Shannon Englert: so it just stuck with me then that you know what immigration isn't easy, and we just think it is as a lot of times we're born here. We can just travel to a lot of countries without that much permission.

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Shannon Englert: And so I really thought

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Shannon Englert: not a complicated situation. Then, when I became an interpreter, saw just how complicated the American immigration system is.

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Shannon Englert: and kind of stacked against anyone trying to do it correctly.

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Shannon Englert: you know, and and there's no take backs. There's no hey? An attorney misfiled for me.

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Shannon Englert: and and now I'm out of status. There's no like, oh, we forgive you for that. It's so. It's really, really high risks.

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Shannon Englert: and and the the level and quality of people that we were working with. It was just like these are who we want as our neighbors, and when when we're not able to save them, and they do have to leave the country. It's just like, Wow! This isn't. This isn't how it's supposed to be. So let me try to do my part.

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Shannon Englert: And so, yeah, I just at 30 decided to go back to law school and go nights and weekends.

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Jamie Seeker: Wow! That's crazy. And if an immigration law isn't just some, you know, easy thing to get into, it can be incredibly complex.

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Jamie Seeker: right? Like what? What have been some of the biggest challenges that you've faced in that area.

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Shannon Englert: So law school in and of itself is a feat, and then immigration law is considered pretty much the second most complicated area of law.

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Shannon Englert: and it absolutely.

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Shannon Englert: People think it's just a form. Well.

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Shannon Englert: that's not absolutely true. And and if you know what form to fill out and why you qualify but a date, one day, difference, or one specific fact, difference that might not be the right form.

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Shannon Englert: And so

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Shannon Englert: there are great parts that make sense, and there are very complicated parts that don't make

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Shannon Englert: logical sense. And so yeah, it's something you have to really read up on and train. And unfortunately, a lot of the law schools don't even train on it.

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Jamie Seeker: Wow, yeah. And I actually, personally know people who are

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Jamie Seeker: currently going through this and one little form or so they say, can set you back years. It's not just okay. Here, let me get you a new one. It's it's it's really, you know, if it doesn't count you out, it it really is. It's a huge blow that we can't really.

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Jamie Seeker: It's not something that I think we'd

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Jamie Seeker: we see tangibly every day that's comparable to anything that we go through in the United States.

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Shannon Englert: And and also the how much it costs the the cost of even just the filing fee. Say, you knew what you were going to do and how to do it. The cost of it alone is is sometimes just

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Shannon Englert: obscene compared to other immigration procedures in other countries. So it's very cost prohibitive for a lot of people. And it's very complex. And so, yeah, it's a very interesting area of law with a lot of complexities. But it's an honor

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Shannon Englert: to.

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Shannon Englert: Yes, we charge for our services, but I feel like we serve our clients. We it's just an honor to help them through the process.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the things that I love about you guys is just

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Jamie Seeker: the personal.

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Jamie Seeker: I think there's a lot of you in in the company and in the business, and knowing you personally and Chad as well, it's it's really kind of cool to see and hear your perspective. We've never actually talked about these deep things. But I I do know that you focus on sensitive cases like visas for trafficking and domestic violence victims. How do you handle that really heavy emotional.

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Jamie Seeker: like a lot of those kind of legal challenges that come with those cases.

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Shannon Englert: So

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Shannon Englert: in a way, we we ship the paradigm. We don't treat them as victims. That's something that happened that doesn't define them. And then we're going to turn that negative into a positive.

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Shannon Englert: We're going to

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Shannon Englert: actually get them to remain here and be safe and and be documented in this country, despite

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Shannon Englert: everything they've suffered, and when we shift that paradigm for ourselves, we also shift it for the client, and so

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Shannon Englert: in many unspoken ways we see them heal along the process because we're not treating them like victims. It's a really empowering and beautiful thing.

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Shannon Englert: Someone came into the office the other day, and I didn't recognize him, and I think it's because he now and I'm good. I have chills.

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Shannon Englert: He now has his documents. He can come and go from the country, and it's like he was broader. He stood up taller. He was proud. And it was just like, Wow, okay, yeah, we changed his life.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah, well, that actually gets me thinking like, Do you have?

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Jamie Seeker: It's really cool when you see people kind of come back. And I feel the same way, and it's not nearly like that for for

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Jamie Seeker: for us on our side, but just that little snippet of just seeing where a client is that we maybe have worked with in the past, and I know the reward I get. And it's just, you know, day to day business stuff or seeing them succeed. We love. I think I think it's kind of a human thing is like

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Jamie Seeker: championing other people, whether it looks like it or not. On the outside of the things in the climate that we're going through right now, and culture seems so negative. But everyone that I talk to is genuinely excited and happy when they see others that they know that maybe they were part of their life. For a minute

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Jamie Seeker: they're succeeding. Tell me about like a time, or a memorable case that you had, or something that kind of just sticks with you that made a significant impact on maybe somebody else's life that you got to witness.

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Shannon Englert: Well, first, st I think it's also perfect timing for me to thank you because you've obviously been a key part to our growth. You've definitely been a confidant, and your services have always been just spot on what we need. Even when we don't know. I know I've called you crying. I know I freaked out like there's just so many times as an entrepreneur. You feel alone, and then that that alone really has helped us

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Shannon Englert: And and so one of the one of the ways I well, there's this one case. I don't want to give too many details, but she was trafficked essentially into the country. She was a minor told to tell immigration she wasn't

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Shannon Englert: came to the law office where I worked when I was an interpreter, she was told. Look you, there's nothing you can do. You were ordered removed. Wait until they catch you again, and we'll try an asylum, but it won't work like nothing proactive. She just stayed in the shadows for

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Shannon Englert: quite a long time. She contacted me right before Covid.

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Shannon Englert: and just to say Hi! She heard, to see if there was anything she should she could do. Her husband had just been deported, and a week later she gets picked up by immigration.

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Shannon Englert: and in digging through and getting to reknow her

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Shannon Englert: from decades prior.

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Shannon Englert: I realized she she had been trafficked. No one noticed, no one did the right intake and questionnaire on her to find these things out, because you can't just go to someone and say, Are you trafficked? They don't know what that word means under the law, and also most people who arrive here safely, whether they've suffered or not are never going to admit they were trafficked because they don't view themselves as victims because they survived. So

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Shannon Englert: he or she's stuck in jail.

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Shannon Englert: I'm trying to get her out. It's Covid. It's shut down.

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Shannon Englert: They try to deport her 3 times they pack her cell up. She's still in the facility. I pause the deportation.

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Shannon Englert: Then they

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Shannon Englert: have her on the bus to the plane. I'm able to stop the deportation.

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Shannon Englert: Then they have her on the plane, and I'm able able to get her off the plane. So I do believe angels exist in that regard. And and I'm just so glad that worked

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Shannon Englert: and she has her green. She's well, we're filing for the green card. She won her TV. So finally.

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Shannon Englert: and we're getting her green card. And her husband, who had been deported, and who had to come back

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Shannon Englert: forcibly to try to save the rest of the family also got his case approved. So they're in. They're golden, the government

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Shannon Englert: they could to try to get her and her family out, and we were able to stop it.

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Jamie Seeker: Wow!

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Jamie Seeker: I feel like man. And if you weren't there, if you weren't doing this, it's not like, Oh, you know, we have a million other immigration law firms which we do. But to what extent are they fighting that fight? That's what I love so much about you guys and your passion, and just.

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Jamie Seeker: you know, not missing those details and and just being able to

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Jamie Seeker: identify that and fight for it.

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Shannon Englert: Key factors of the details. Like you teach us, you know, in our coaching, like focus on the details and and how data matters and and different things matter. Same thing. If we get so used to just

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Shannon Englert: just going doing cursory work, we're never gonna get to the heart of what's really going on. And so with her, we were able to save it. Obviously, there's some. It's that we can't. And

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Shannon Englert: yeah, we're. We're also very honest with our clients, you know. Can we? Can we not like, I'm currently trying to stop a deportation right now. And you know, we're we're trying. We're just it's that's the very stressful side of the work, I gotta say, but it.

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Jamie Seeker: How do you? How do you do that with like the I feel like there's such an emotional investment on that part of it, because you know what's on the line. But I also know you. We, you and I have never discussed that part of it. You and I've only discussed like the the balancing, the business side of running a law firm. And you know all of all of this bucket. Right? But yeah, how do you?

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Jamie Seeker: How do you manage that? And and really still be mission driven and focus 1st with your law firm. But still.

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Jamie Seeker: you know, hey, we've got to stay business minded here.

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Shannon Englert: So we really live by our core values and and and train our staff. We actually even do an interview for core values for someone to even be able to work with us. We want to be aligned. And, in fact, people self select out during this process, often

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Shannon Englert: perfect. I we all like. Not that they're bad. They just aren't aligned. And we need people who want to help and who care to help. And we also implement. You know.

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Shannon Englert: Obviously, if someone needs time off after a hard intake or reading of a hard declaration or hearing a hard story, we were really compassionate with our staff.

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Shannon Englert: and we we ask them what their personal, professional, and financial goals are, and we try to tie them into to the company goals, so that we are all winning. And then all these company wins of

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Shannon Englert: getting legal status or some sort of protection, even if it's temporary and getting a green card or a citizenship. We try to either record them. Put people have as many people in the office on that day as possible, so that the team can see it and feel it, and and and see the the

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Shannon Englert: the end result of why we struggle through the pain part.

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Jamie Seeker: That's really cool. And that's a really big takeaway. I think if you're really a business owner and I love that, you're touching on that because I am aware of obviously the onboarding process and and whatnot, but surrounding yourself with people who are aligned with your mission and your vision, for your company is something that you really just can't. You can't compromise on. If you want to run a mission driven

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Jamie Seeker: business right.

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Shannon Englert: And we're in a hiring frenzy right now. We really need people, but we always have to go back to.

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Shannon Englert: Are they aligned.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah, and and.

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Shannon Englert: And we have these conversations, and sometimes people don't interview great.

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Shannon Englert: And so you but we we do a conversation interview. Then we do a core value interview, and we allow them to kind of create that on their own.

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Shannon Englert: I had attorneys that I thought we're going to do great, and they refused to record the core value interview.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah, I'm like, you know what it says a lot.

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Shannon Englert: And what else are you gonna not do that I need done, and and for the client? And if so, if I can't

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Shannon Englert: be assured you're gonna align. Then then maybe we can't

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Shannon Englert: work on the same team. But it's hard

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Shannon Englert: because your mind plays tricks on you. You're like, Oh, but I really need.

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Jamie Seeker: They're so great. Yeah, they're so great.

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Shannon Englert: Great, that's it!

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Jamie Seeker: And they are, yeah, and they probably are, yeah, yeah.

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Shannon Englert: Somewhere else, right like. And so that's just it. It's like you do meet. And I I tend to like immediately feel if I like like the person. So I'm like they look like a great person. But that doesn't mean they're meant to work with me.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah, that that's also a really great takeaway, is, there are really, really great people that are highly skilled, that, you know can make a difference in your business. But are they the right fit? And is it really gonna work long term? And I think it just comes down to what we talked about. And one thing that I want to touch on before we start to wrap up. And I ask you my last question.

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Jamie Seeker: is just like culture today. And you see the ever changing, like political, social climate. How do you see Dyad's role in shaping the future of immigration law with all of that stuff happening right now.

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Shannon Englert: We. We take immense pride in what we do, and also in this country. And I think it's a change of like we we

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Shannon Englert: we don't really go political because

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Shannon Englert: we're American. We we love this country, and we want to help other people stay in this country. But with a responsibility of.

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Shannon Englert: You know what

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Shannon Englert: I work with people that I can envision being my personal neighbor right next door to me, and anytime I have a decision or a question or a concern I'm like, would I walk out my door right now and want to see them

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Shannon Englert: as my neighbor?

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Shannon Englert: And

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Shannon Englert: because we

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Shannon Englert: we all have a responsibility in this society to take care of one of another. And so we just hold ourselves to that standard, and that standard is part of our value system. And in fact, we were talking today like so and so wants to start a case. And I'm reading through. And I really need to know like, were you young and dumb, and had one dui when you were young, or are you a habitual drunkard? Who are? You're putting me and my family at risk every day, you know. So

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Shannon Englert: it just depends. And I gotta tell you the majority of the people they're so proud they come to me. I had this family the other week

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Shannon Englert: over 20 years of tax returns. They only have a tax identification number, which means they do not get refunds.

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Shannon Englert: and they they file taxes and and they get paid in cash, and they they report everything.

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Jamie Seeker: Oh, that's amazing!

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Shannon Englert: And they were just like, No. One day we know we are going to qualify. And we wanna, we respect this country. And we want to show we pay whatever we need to pay. And it was like so heartwarming that these are the people we serve and get to help.

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Shannon Englert: And so if someone tells me, Hey, I've been taking advantage of the system. And I want to know how I can take advantage more. No, you're not going to be for us. We're not going to help you.

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Shannon Englert: So yeah, we we just have a high criteria, also for staff and for team members and for clients.

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Jamie Seeker: That's a huge one, too. I before I ask you the last question, I think that's that's a hard lesson, right is because as a business owner.

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Jamie Seeker: You're here to do business right like I I can't. I can't serve my mission, and I can't do what I want to do. If if I don't, if I can't keep the doors open. So it really does. You find yourself in this moment where you're like? Oh, well, it's it's gonna you know. Let's do the deal, or let's bring them on. But sometimes and it's the same.

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Jamie Seeker: it's the same kind of struggle that we have when we're hiring right? I really, really really need this employee. I really really really need this customer or this client.

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Jamie Seeker: But you really don't. It's gonna hurt you in the long run, and so it's worth it to say, no, I'm not going to make the sale, or I'm not going to work with this client

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Jamie Seeker: for now, and it maybe is gonna stay in the short run. But in the long run, like this is really what we need to do. And and I've personally done it, and it's hard. It is hard. And I always thought like, Oh, yeah, that's that's gonna be easy for us, because that's what my mission, and my vision is all about. And it it's not. It's hard. It is hard to do when you're faced with it.

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Jamie Seeker: but I will say that it. It is worth it. And they are good people, good customers, good good clients, just not the right fit for us. Right? And so I think that's that's another huge learning.

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Jamie Seeker: learning thing that I had to pick up over a long period of time.

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Shannon Englert: And you do learn right, you you make exceptions, or you think this one will be different or something like that. And then you just.

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Jamie Seeker: Right! Oh.

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Shannon Englert: Know, I've learned. And this, this is this is where I'm okay, what I'm okay with. But also we we set out to kind of be very transparent, not kind of. We are transparent

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Shannon Englert: with our staff, but also with our clients on social media, who we are, and I firmly believe we attract

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Shannon Englert: what we put out there. And so we're not trying to attract everyone. We're we're not trying to.

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Shannon Englert: you know. Have people come in, get a consultation and then be told, no, no, we we don't want to waste their time, either.

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Shannon Englert: So it's it's also that very intentional effort.

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Shannon Englert: either internal marketing and teamwork building or external marketing for clients.

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Jamie Seeker: Oh, that part right? There, that's huge. Yes, okay. So my last question before we wrap up, and it has to do with, you know the title of this podcast is what it takes. So

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Jamie Seeker: that keeping that in mind, what advice would you give to aspiring immigration lawyers, or even just entrepreneurs who want to build like

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Jamie Seeker: a mission driven business. What do you feel like? What does it take to do? Something like that?

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Shannon Englert: So I absolutely believe law firms are also just businesses. We are all alike. We have the same parts of a business, we have same struggles, same growth, breaking points and and whatnot and staff issues. So what does it take? It absolutely takes

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Shannon Englert: action. No excuses

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Shannon Englert: the ability to, and willingness to fail.

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Shannon Englert: So while someone's still analyzing, if their plan is perfect, I've already tried 2 or 3 things failed, learned, improved, and I'm already ahead.

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Shannon Englert: So I it's some of my team joke like Shannon. You jump out of the plane without a parachute and wonder how you're going to create it on the way down. But I I do I I just move forward and no excuses. If you're around a world of people that are going to give you excuses as to why it won't work, or why it's okay to not do the work that's required it.

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Shannon Englert: You're never going to succeed, so put your head down, do the work. Only listen to positivity. If you don't have it around you. Listen to podcasts about people who

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Shannon Englert: do it. And we don't talk to a lot of people about what we do for that reason, because negative responses back to us is not going to work. And I do work with my husband, Chad. So

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Shannon Englert: we bounce these ideas off of each other. But

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Shannon Englert: It's the no excuses.

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Jamie Seeker: I love that. I love that. And I think that you've really shown that from day one you saw something in the beginning, and you're like, Oh, I'll just go to law school then, because I see a need, and I'm just going to fill it. So no excuse. I'm going to do what it takes to go and do that, and so that I'm going to end on that note. I wish we could have talked about working with Chad, too. But I was like, you know, what I feel like. This is.

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Jamie Seeker: this is really cool stuff. So I wanted to dive into all the mission stuff. But, Shannon, thank you so much for sharing your inspiring, very inspiring journey and the incredible work that Dyad immigration law is doing to support individuals and families. Where can somebody find you if they're looking for you?

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Shannon Englert: So you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Youtube tick, Tock dial.

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Shannon Englert: And we are on the social medias all the time. I'm going to start going live more. And our website as well. dietlaw.com.

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Jamie Seeker: Yeah. So check them out. Your dedication to helping people navigate complex immigration processes with with the compassion, I think, is the key piece there. It's really it really, truly is remarkable. And I'm not saying that just because I know you, I think anybody that just listened to this conversation is going to be like, Wow, and just for our listeners.

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Jamie Seeker: if you're looking to learn more about her work, definitely check out dyad immigration law, they're online, check out their website, their Instagram, any of their stories, and just stay tuned. If you want to hear more about what it takes to succeed in business and beyond

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Jamie Seeker: thanks for joining.