I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to it as a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem, that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
Not my problem, go to the support team, not my problem.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more, if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a place that we are comfortable with.
We have to be willing to be a little uncomfortable.
Elizabeth,
welcome to the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.
We did a previous episode with you on your work as a, as a social worker
and also one on, on your testimony.
So we're not going to really get into those things
necessarily, people can check those out in the, in the description.
But today I want to dive into something
that's kind of more of a sobering, yeah, topic.
And that's how do we support and care for those suffering from mental illness?
This is not something that's talked about that much.
And I don't know if you want to get into any of that
as far as like stigmas, stigmas go and so forth.
But, specifically, how do we care how can we be
gracious towards those that are going through this
or have a family member going through this?
What what can we do?
That's that's that's the big
I think the big question for everybody, what can we do?
It's difficult.
It's messy and it's controversial.
So, the context that I come,
am coming from is not so much as a mental health professional,
although technically that is what I would be considered by occupation.
As a licensed social worker, I would be able
to diagnose and treat and counsel and do all of that.
However, I am speaking
as a Mennonite lady who has a social work education
who's been thrown in the muddle and seen a few things.
During my studies for my,
graduate school, I did a paper on the support networks
that we as conservative people put together
to help families in crisis.
You'll hear me use the term mental health diagnosis.
That's the politically correct term.
Today could change in a few years.
So that's kind of the preferred statement.
So I probably slip into my teacher speak. So,
which is
different because we from a conservative setting don't grab
onto those, those changes and those things.
But that word illness, the reason
that has been, you know, kind of pulled back is because
if you say someone has an illness, then you're saying, fix that problem.
If I have a tumor, I go to the doctor, fix that problem.
We call that the medical model.
I have a problem.
You're going to fix it.
But we can't look at people that way
because we can't fix people.
If somebody is born with muscular dystrophy
we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
We can work with it.
We can help them to have optimal health and a good life.
But we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
So now we change that paradigm
over to mental health.
And okay, so they've got a mental health diagnosis.
It's a little easier to look at it as what we would call the social model.
How are we going to deal with this as a community?
How are we going to look at the entire person,
not just what's going on in their brain, but the whole person?
That's when you get into social work and the whole person
standpoint, of looking at how you're going to help somebody through it.
And isn't that maybe how we as a church want to look at things,
especially people in crisis and difficulty
is how how are we going to do that as a community?
So that,
you know, the definition of mental illness
can can go from one place to another?
Yes. It's probably what I would use to describe the person that is,
not stable with medication
and their behaviors, making it so that they cannot function.
They probably have a mental illness.
Yeah. They should see a doctor.
Doesn't mean it's going to
always. Medication isn't always the answer.
And, you know, we have this tendency we're going to either really spiritualize
it or we're really going to make it a physiological thing, you know?
And so of course let's find a middle ground, you know.
So but it's tough. Yes.
The reason there's stigma, I would say, you know, it's messy stuff.
It's out of the box and none of us like to go out of our box.
We might all have different boxes, different sizes,
but none of us likes to go out of our box, you know?
So I think that's part of where stigma comes in. stigma.
And it doesn't feel like it's
talked about that much either.
It's just like we just don't really go there.
And maybe that's just because we don't know what to do with it,
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
When I did my my paper,
I sent out interviews and questionnaires.
And I also interviewed people who were served by support teams.
And what I mean by a support team is our traditional way of gathering
2 or 3 couples to work with a person
during a crisis situation, a person or a family.
And so I got the input from all angles,
from those that served on a support team
and those who are served by a support team.
And so I just kind of gathered up, you know, a lot of information from that
that might answer some of your questions,
more from from the viewpoint of the people.
And to be completely blunt, I've been on both sides.
So I kind of have a heart for both, both angles.
So I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to it as a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem, that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
Not my problem, go to the support team, not my problem.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more, if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a place that we are comfortable with.
We have to be willing to be a little uncomfortable.
Jesus was willing to be a little uncomfortable.
Maybe it would be okay if I am okay with being uncomfortable because until heaven,
you know, we will be.
So, if we approach mental illness
from a community or social perspective,
then it's going to take some of the negative stigma away
because it's not you.
If you were a person who was having something going on.
Now, I'm not saying there's something wrong with you.
It's like, what can we do
to get through this together?
So that's the shift that I feel has been longed for
from those who have gone through it, who have had somebody in their
in their home or in their family that is struggling in that way,
with my specialty or whatever,
being people with disabilities, it's been an interesting contrast.
Some of the best care I've ever seen
is an Amish household taking care of a special needs individual.
I mean, it just
we got that
we as a conservative people, we do that very, very well.
And those individuals are cared for so well,
they're treated culturally, almost like angels unawares.
And it's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Now let's shift that.
What if the schizophrenic farmer who talks to himself
while he's out plowing is treated the same way?
What about the young mother
who absolutely cannot cope after she had a baby
because she's plunged into some weird kind of postpartum depression?
You know, what if we embraced them
and their situation in the same way?
So that's that's a thought that I just kind of want to leave
with the listeners of, you know, if we could take,
that well care.
So we look at you know, the individual that is brain damaged
through whatever situation and we go, oh, he can't help it.
You know, he was born that way.
We'll take care of him as God made him who’s to say that the schizophrenic farmer,
I mean
God made his brain, you know, I mean, it's it's proven
that schizophrenia is a malfunction of the brain organ.
You know, they can do all the neuroscience and point where and the whole bit.
So what if we treat him as a community
the same way this is what God has put in our church group.
This is what God has assigned to us.
How can we love him well.
But it's uncomfortable and it's messy.
So practically
then what's, what's something the listeners that’s hearing this is okay.
What's, what's something they could do.
Like let's get practical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad you asked.
So with this school paper what I came up with was
I kind of walked away with a message
from the people that have been served by support groups.
And I've come across, kind of received a message
for those who served on the support groups.
And so, support is really
a big word that I would like people think about.
I'm not talking about financial support.
I mean that that is a valid topic, but for a whole nother
a whole nother place.
I'm talking about, you know, spiritual support, not teaching,
not indoctrining, but support holding up the arms during the battle.
How are we holding up the arms of the family
or the suffering individual during the battle?
I think we would do well to ask Christ.
Ask the Lord, how do you want me to be your hands in this?
And that answer is going to be different for different people
according to their talents and callings.
You know, a preacher who is preparing for his Sunday
lesson on Sunday morning is not the person that should drive the person to church.
You know, you do where you're called, how you're called.
You know, that is part of it.
But ministering to the heart of the people that we are trying to support
must be done in a way that promotes dignity, value and validation.
The participants of the project
expressed a feeling of being worked on instead of worked with.
So these are these are people you interviewed for this research you did.
For my project, you know, and and they felt like
they were trying to be fixed, like they were a problem to be solved.
They wanted someone walking next to them, not in front of them, pulling them along.
A lot of them talk felt like they were being, like, yanked on a leash.
Come this way. This is how we be a Mennonite.
You know, kind of a thing.
They're just trying to get by day by day.
And we bring in our culture and our own expectations.
We have to loosen those, first of all, in order to even accept their situation.
But they want to be worked with, not on.
And, building a relationship is first,
you're not going to help anybody if you haven't built a relationship.
When Jesus was healing people, what did he do?
He asked their name.
He asked what your situation was.
He knew the person was lame.
He knew how many hairs were on his head.
But he engaged the person first.
That's a good point.
What do you want from me?
What can I do for you?
You know. Why are you here?
Say it.
Let's embrace your situation now.
Let's go.
It feels like there's a pretty significant framing difference
when you use the word with in that sentence.
Definitely. The.
When you're working on something, you're already separating that person.
I'm working on you.
I'm trying to make you conform to what I think of.
If I'm working with then the person say,
this is a person that's living with a mental health diagnosis.
What are your goals?
What do you want to function?
You know, now, yes.
Maybe somebody who's really deep into
maybe some psychosis or whatever, their goals aren't even very clear.
And they need you need family to come in and say, well,
you know, you know, all the chickens in the chicken house are dying.
Maybe we need to
but but still it feels like you,
that terminology use there gives in my mind
I automatically think of walking alongside someone like on a journey or something.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you're and you're there and you're supporting whatever that seems like
that makes a fundamental different image in our heads.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that would be the shift from a problem to fix
to a situation to embrace.
You know let's just embrace this and
you know a crisis can be viewed as something that
could be given to the church.
Like the Lord says, hey church, this is this is your quiz.
This is, this is what I have for you.
How are you going to respond to this?
This is the journey I have for you at this time.
So I guess that's where my my view goes.
Another thing that the people really, showed up a lot in the surveys
was education.
So, that they wish that people
would ask them questions about the condition in the situation
and, and look into it and learn about it
either experientially or,
you know, by actually reading.
And now I will put a little thing in there that doesn't mean,
oh, you know, I looked it up and you should take, you know, Buddy’s
magic wonder pills because that cures autism.
You know, that is not what people are looking for, okay.
But that understanding, that openness, that curiosity that I am willing to
come into your journey and find out
what is what is Janet's therapy like?
You know, I'd like to see you do her physical therapy every day, you know.
Or can I come along with you when you go over to Phil Haven for your appointment?
I'll just sit in the waiting room.
But just so that you're.
You know what these folks are,
going through building context
or something or awareness to really.
Like a pretty base level.
Then you'll have something to give
and you will know what to give.
You know, if you're going through this journey with someone
and you find out that, okay, well, this is a person that really like
they are not for medications, they are not for doctoring.
Well, then, you know, don't don't even
you don't have to go down that road with them.
Yeah. Build the relationship first.
Then you're in much less danger of saying the wrong thing,
which is really isn't that what we're all afraid of?
Saying the wrong thing?
it sounds like what you're outlining here,
is a lot more work
or like harder to do it because, you know, we're humans,
we kind of like the easy path or the shortcuts. Right.
Where's the To-Do list or that's the one option or the other.
Could be perhaps.
Oh, the stigma.
I was like, well, we're
just not really going to talk about that because we don't really want to,
you know, deal with that. Yeah.
What you're describing sounds.
Yeah.
Like you take a lot of time, you know, a lot of care,
a lot of loving on people and so forth and a lot of other things, obviously.
But, Yeah.
It sounds it sounds like.
Yeah, it'd be you'd have to invest a lot into this, Well and that's what I found.
Is that significant damage has been done because people did not take the time
or possess the humility to truly learn about various conditions.
It takes determination and time and empathy
to enter into the challenges faced by some of these people.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Chronic health issues, mental health issues, special needs,
financial crisis, whatever.
We can invite speakers in on topics we can pass around, informative books.
We can engage in conversations.
If I know you
well, I, you know, I can study a topic
or ask you for information you recommend.
You know, those are all methods that
any of us can pour
into one another.
So this is obviously
a very complex and multifaceted topic.
You know people spend their lifetimes studying this and so forth.
So we're never going to cover everything right in this short episode.
But hopefully this gives some people
some some basic parameters, some frameworks to kind of start with.
And I'm, I'm hoping you know, maybe raises
the level of awareness, you know, to at least start asking the questions.
So as we look at the kind of outline of what you've presented today
and we wrap this up, what is something you'd like to leave with our audience?
I guess the whole thing kind of brought me to this place
where I have, like, I feel like I can speak as kind of a composite
of all the people that contributed to the questionnaire.
And so to those
who are serving people with needs and challenges,
what I want to say on behalf of those
who need help, so to speak, or are seeking assistance, is
thank you for being willing to walk with us.
You are courageous and servant hearted person,
and even when we are in too much pain to really express that.
Okay, so you're remember that your folks
are suffering or going through a difficult time.
Frankly, you're viewing a bag of trash.
You are seeing my trash.
So you need to be gracious going into that.
And it's appreciated when that happens because
we as people are going through
a crisis, may not be able to see that really clearly right now.
Okay.
And our communication
might be suffering as a result of everything that has happened.
So don't take us as a project or a problem, but as a opportunity
for the church to grow and,
help the church to show Christ
in all things take us seriously.
And if we've experienced abuse,
that's going to complicate.
And you can see the other the podcast
that you did on on some of those issues, but you have to remember
that a person is only going to disclose as much.
They might just give you a little taste to see if you're safe.
Yeah.
Don't react.
Just let them. They are.
They don't even know if I tell you just this little bit and you overreact,
I'm going to pull back, okay?
And we're not going to be able to build relationship,
and you're not going to be able to speak into what's going on.
So just walk in with humility
and open heartedness and don't try to fix the problem.
Concentrate on the relationship.
So, that's that's what I kind of,
you know, there's just a lot of damage done and a lot of trash.
It's messy and that there's just no way to go around it.
To those who are being supported by the support teams,
remember that we are handling a bag of trash
to someone who has volunteered and has a lot of other things to do,
but loves us enough to be willing to help them.
Even if they're making mistakes, they at least have a heart to help.
And that's hard to remember when you yourself are hurting
or going through that.
We have to remember that we're all sinful, clumsy creatures.
And so,
things don't just always
click to a successful outcome.
And that's the thing.
We're very outcome driven as people, you know, we gotta fix this.
We gotta have a successful outcome.
But if we concentrate on the journey, we're we're better off.
So this is messy stuff.
And Jesus gets that.
Jesus understands messy.
He's not watching for certain exact results.
He's watching to see how we all relate
to each other in him.
So it isn't always pretty and it doesn't have tidy, complete conclusions
supporting people like the ones in the Luke 14 banquet
is messy and it's tricky.
It's it's the lame, it's the salt, it's the feeble minded.
Okay?
And really, we're all there at some point.
If nothing else, at the moment we kneel before the cross, broken by our sins.
That's where we are.
But we all have our days and our ways.
So tap into that compassion.
Tap into the redeeming source of power.
Do you have what it takes?
Well, if you have Christ, you do.
Yeah.
That's, some powerful pieces to leave with our audience.
I think you're giving people a lot to think about here.
And I really hope they can take some pieces out of this and say
oh yeah I should be aware of that.
I should think about that.
I should I should learn more about this so I can
I can help support and, care for people around me.
So I really appreciate you taking the time to come on today, especially because,
you know, we're talking about a kind of a bleak and complicated topic.
So so thank you for what you shared today.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to
this episode with Elisabeth on supporting those in crisis.
If you're interested in learning
more about this, we interviewed Janelle Glick on Trauma
Informed Churches, and you can find that linked in the description down below.
Of course, all our content is over on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
Thanks again and we'll see you in the next episode.