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Welcome to Episode 360 of the Data Driven Podcast.

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I'm your host, Bailey, the semiscient master of ceremonies,

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guiding you through the vast realms of data and technology with what you might

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call a British charm. In today's special episode, we've

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come full circle, 360 degrees to be exact.

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Frank and Andy, your beloved data aficionados, embark on a

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retrospective adventure looking back at the twists, turns,

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and tremendous tales from the past 7 seasons. It's a bit

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like time travel, but with fewer paradoxes and more data

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insights. But in true Frank and Andy fashion, our

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journey doesn't follow a straight path. Expect a labyrinth of

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tangents, day tours, and, of course, the occasional

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tech related rabbit hole. It's what makes this podcast the

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treasure trove of information and entertainment it is.

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So whether you're here for the data, the wit, or just to hear if

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Frank and Andy ever managed to stay on topic, you're in the right place.

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Hello, and welcome to Data Driven. And you know what,

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Andy? What? I have said that now officially

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360 times. 360

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times. Right. That's right, ladies and gents, boys and

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girls, AIs of various levels of sentience.

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Trying to make the episode future proof. Yeah. So this is show

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number 360. Wow. And one of the

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things I liked about the Simpsons there's many things I like about the Simpsons, but

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they but they would instead of celebrating, like, episode 100 or 200, like,

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normal shows do, they'd be like, this is the 4 100 and third episode. Woo

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hoo. Special. So I thought

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360 would be a good way to kind of

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talk about the journey this far and some of the cool projects we have going

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on now, which in in our virtual green

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room before we hit the record, we were talking about.

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Right? So first off, on my

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end, the big one the

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big moment of news is not

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technology related, believe it or not. But it is super cool.

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It is super cool. So there's a couple of shows that you will

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hear, that you've already heard, and there's some that are kind

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of in stuck in development limbo. More on that later.

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But I refer to an ongoing court case.

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Sometimes I'll even refer to it as an ongoing custody case.

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That is closed now because we have finally adopted,

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my wife's cousin. And,

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Andy's clapping if you're watching the video, but I think he was on mute.

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Because he would cough and then you clap. But no. We finally adopted him. So

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we now have 3 boys, officially legal. He's my son.

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Just with, like, the other 2, and, he

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he's an awesome kid. He,

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he's a lot of fun. He's such a happy boy.

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And considering kind of all the things that had happened, it's just in the

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circumstances of his birth, which are pretty bad, and kind of the

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fighting that went around to who gets to keep him, who gets

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to adopt him, basically.

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You know, because of I wanna avoid future legal

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complications. I won't go into those. Sure. But it

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looks like it's over. So, you know, he's he's part of the family, and he's

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been part of the family, I guess, since birth because he's a relative, but he's

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part of our little cluster since he came in a little bit with us in

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July. And, it's funny I did the

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math is that when he starts kindergarten Mhmm. My

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oldest graduates from high school, like, the same time. Wow.

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So when I did the math and I was like, boy, I am a glutton

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for punishment. No. It's a

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wonderful thing. I and I say that as a

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father who had children. Let's see. My first,

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daughter was born when I was

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18. Oh, wow. That's a little young,

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and I don't recommend it. But, you know,

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god is good, and it worked out well, and, she's

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awesome. And my last child, my

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son, my second son, was born when I

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was 44. So,

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also, kind of 8 I'm I'm not hitting the median.

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Okay? But Mhmm. But I've got the range.

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So when what I learned through both

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those experiences because I had 2 daughters from my first marriage, and they

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they grew up that you know, they were basically grown. I would

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say I think I think Penny was either 18 or

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about to turn, like, within a week and a half 18 when

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I'm I married Christy, my my second wife. And

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then we started having, children, and we had 3 more

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then. And it's having done this twice gives gives a

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perspective. And have being older and having children,

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Frank, I think it's, you know, it's I I don't

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wanna say it's better because it's not, but it's different because you know what to

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expect. And that's that's a big deal.

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Because that first time, you anyone, any parent having a first

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child has is having a child for the very first time. I mean,

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that that sounds Right. Circular. I I get it,

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but, a bit of a tautology. But it's true.

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You don't know what you don't know until you actually go and have

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a child. And I always tell my my older daughter and I joke with

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her, all the time. I should say old dust because I've got

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3. I tell her I you were the beta child. You know?

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So we had to learn how to be parents with you. Her and my

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my with my second wife. Our

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older son is her first. Right. Right. Sort of

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thing. He's also a a bit of a beta child as well. So

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but congratulations. Every child is different too. Like, you know, with the first

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and kind of, like, having gone through it now three times or in the process

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of going through it. Yeah. But one thing

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I noticed with the littlest guy

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is

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I know now that this time is short.

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Yeah. And I appreciate the little things.

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Not that I didn't with the older 2, but it was when you're

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your first child, you don't know what to expect. You're like, oh my god. Oh

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my god. Oh my god. What am I doing? Right? A lot of impostor

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syndrome with the first kid.

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And then with the second one, you think that, we've done this before. It's

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no big deal, but

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you're thrown for a loop because it's a default leader for their personality.

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Mhmm. And then you have to keep if they're close enough in age, you have

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to keep them both alive, which becomes this whole

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thing, and then they interact with each other. And I'm an only child, so,

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like, this is completely, like seeing the sibling relationships

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develop is completely foreign to me. Right. Right. And

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my wife isn't. So she's like, you can't like, I remember the first time I

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came back from a conference, And I bought I

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used to bring, like, either a souvenir or, like, a swag thing from the show,

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and I only got one. That was a

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mistake. Right? Right?

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And I thought imagine Roberta addressing that. Yes.

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Yes. My lovely wife would be like We can't do that. Like,

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and even now with, like, the littlest one, I'm like, but he's a baby. He

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can't she's like, it doesn't matter. I was like, okay. Right. So

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but it's interesting to kinda see that. And it's

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cool to see the my oldest kind of really grow into being

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a young man, but also growing into being a a

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big brother twice over. And

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my middle now middle child is kind of was used to being

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the the baby of the family. Yeah. Now it's not

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job. I will I think he was excited that he was no longer the

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baby. Okay. But then he realized, wait, I'm no longer the baby.

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I lose. He knew all the bad things he would lose,

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but he only he realized the good things he would lose too. So it's kind

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of interesting. He's kind of developed into it really well too. So it's it's

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Yeah. It's worked out well. And the little guy is just, you know, the missing

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puzzle. My my sister-in-law basically

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said, like, he's the missing puzzle piece you didn't know was missing. Aw.

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And he, like, really fits in really well. Like and he's just

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it's it's interesting to see see the personalities develop and, like, interact

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with each other. That is that is really cool,

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and I I didn't say it before, but congratulations. Thank

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you. Thank you very much. I think you I've told you. You know?

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Yes. But not Like, day of, I think, when we went to the courthouse. Oh,

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absolutely. Yeah. You did say congratulations, but up until the

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moment I swear if you're

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still listening, we are gonna talk about technology, but hold on. Hold on.

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Up until the moment, the judge basically put the hammer down

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literally. We

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were expecting certain parties to show up

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Yeah. And stop the process.

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So that's all I'll say. Yeah. Up to and including physical

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violence against me, the judge, or the building. So that's

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the kind of things I've been living with over the last Goodness, Frank. That's,

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like, what, year or so? Because we met him about a year, and we met

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him met him end of January last year. Okay. Because this the we didn't know

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he existed. He was he's about 18 months old now, so he's about 4 months

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Yeah. Before we even knew we existed, and we're like and he was in the

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foster care system in Pennsylvania. And we're

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like, you know, we just bought this big new house.

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We're just across the state line more or less. Right.

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And why and then one day, I

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will tell all about this, but I'm gonna wait for certain parties to

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pass away. Because

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as of yet, they haven't figured out how to sue you beyond the grave.

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Not yet. But Not yet. With AI. With AI,

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anything's possible. But now that we're back talking about

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AI, I think it's interesting because

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with my first child, I wasn't in the AI space. Right? I

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was in Right. I was still in the silver light world, which

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kinda crazy to even say that out loud.

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If my second one, I was in AI space,

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and I really got to appreciate like, fully

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appreciate, not just from, like, a parental level Yeah. But from a

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developmental psychology and kind of engineering aspect of a cognitive

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way, how language developed, how learning happens.

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And now I'm seeing the relationships build between the 3

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separate nodes, if you will, and that's

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fascinating to see. And maybe not to anyone

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who's not an only child. If you're an only child, if you're if you have

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siblings, you kind of you live through that experience. Yeah. I did

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not. So, that's needed.

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To be fair, I'm the oldest of, there were 5 of us.

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You know, mom had 5 boys, and,

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it's, I it's just as foreign to me to think about

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what it would be like to to be an only child. So I don't

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I really don't say one's better than the other, and I don't think that's what

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you're saying at all. No. No. No. Not at all. But it's the but they

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are different. Well, you know, it's funny. When I was a kid, a lot of

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people would say to me, like, oh, it must be terrible being an only child.

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I'm like, I don't know. I think it's pretty flipping awesome.

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And I didn't always say flipping if you get my drift. I do.

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But where it did stop becoming awesome is about

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the age. I was about about 25 when I realized that my parents were getting

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older. And I realized the consequence of that.

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Yeah. And I had that I call

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it an uh-oh moment around age 25. Like, uh-oh.

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Right? It's on me. Like, there's no one else.

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Yeah. Like and and and and and I

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know from experience with other family members and things like

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that, even if there is a sibling, one sibling tends to take

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the brunt of the load for for many reasons. Legit, illegitimate,

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fair and unfair. Right? Yep. Yep. So

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even then, it's not a guarantee, but

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but still, there's someone who can understand your growing

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up circumstances in a way that really no one else can.

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I don't know. So Yeah. Yeah. So as a kid, it's

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an awesome ride. The second half of it, not

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so much. Yeah. I try to think of a movie that starts off really

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good, but then turns terrible.

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Can't really think of 1, but you get the gist. I do. I mean, it's

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show 360, so we have to, like, kinda hit all the our notes of, like,

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movie reference. That's true. You know?

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We'll have to come up. We'll we'll have a movie reference. I know us. Maybe

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we'll have Bailey come up with one if we don't. We will do it.

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Speaking of Bailey, I'm doing an experiment,

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and this was an experiment inspired by some other happenings where

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the thought I had was, well, what if you had AIs

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delivering a short kinda newsy podcast

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about AI. And then you said you're like, dude, there's already YouTube

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channels that do this. I'm like, no. No. No. But they don't tell you they're

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an AI. Right? It's always that quasi so is it so we

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we now have a a a second AI entity,

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and her name is Jen, Jen

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AI. Get it. Right. So clever. And because now

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we can say everyone's talking about Jen AI.

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So I did the first couple of rounds of experiments, and I passed the round

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to people that I mean, we've gotten the feedback that Bailey is both

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an interesting aspect of the show, but also if she talks for

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too long, it becomes very obvious that it's an

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AI. Right? So, that's

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why if you notice, I kind of I try to keep her intros,

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to a minute plus or minus, like, 5 seconds. Right?

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Just because I get it. I I we we do listen to the feedback.

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I do like keeping her because it's always cool to,

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like, have a an intro of what the show is gonna be about. Right?

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And you or me could do it, true, but

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they're about to hear us for, like, 35 to 40 to to an hour. So

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they're in this store hour. So I'm pretty sure pretty sure it's nice to hear

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a different voice. So so I actually found a new,

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AI voice that sounds very human like and

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that's the voice for Gen AI. And then I was thinking the first

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iteration, the first recording and it's on YouTube. We're gonna start

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in a separate podcast channel. Because at one point, if you go back in the

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history long enough, I did do, like, a daily kind of show of

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news and AI or in Tano. Mhmm. But that was when I

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was unemployed in between jobs, and I had

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2 kids. And one of them wasn't

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a toddler. One of them actually, at the time, one

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of them was, actually. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But the

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gist is is that I also got the feedback is that it

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starts if it starts polluting the feed, people

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people will do that. And if you look at successful podcasters, we'll use Joe Rogan.

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Right? Love him, hate him, admire him, loathe him, whatever.

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He has a the main show, and those shows are anywhere

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from 2 to 3 hours. I think I saw 1 on the feed. It was

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4 hours, which Wow. I can't imagine. But there's

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also a series of YouTube channels as well as, I think, a

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podcast RSS feed where it's called JRE clips, Joe

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Rogan experience clips, which is just like segments. Which

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is good because very few people are gonna sit through the entire

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2, 3 hours. Right. In fact, when I was driving back and forth to

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Pittsburgh for the visitations with said child,

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I would that was when I started listening to it because it was, like, this

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one kind of narrative you could listen to on the drive. It's about 3 hours.

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Right? So the problem is is that because of language reasons, I realized I

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couldn't do it if there were kids in the car, which I think

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solidifies our statement of we try not to have profanity.

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And I think for the first time, we actually bleeped it out a couple of

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shows ago with Luke. I forget his last name, but

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Luke Diaz? Yeah. The venture capital

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guy. So Yeah. And there's another show by a very brilliant man named

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Benjamin. His first name's Ben.

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That there's a lot of profanity in that. So the

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Yeah. The effort to edit that out Yeah. That would be

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that would be hard. And this this may be a good

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segue. This is an excellent segue. I was teeing it up. Thank you,

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Frank. Just not consciously. That thank you.

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We started another thing. We're always starting things. And

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we started recording on Teams, and we'll

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say things in the shows like if you're watching this video. And we said it

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for the longest time, but we didn't have the videos

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posted anyway for, people to see them.

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So a couple of 3 months ago, we

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found a a platform that would, work, I think, work

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well, and it managed a lot of the, stuff behind the

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scenes for managing subscriptions. So people wanna

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sign up and, you know, and watch shows

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indefinitely. That that's available. And

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then if you get you know, you watch what's available out there and go, alright.

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I've I've done you know, it's a long weekend and you binge watch all of

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the data driven, media TV parts.

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And and that's what it's called. It's, it's a data driven media dot

295
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TV. It the the link right now

296
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does not have an SSL on it. So if you go to HTTP

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colon wackawackawackaw datadrivenmedia.tv,

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it will redirect you to the official site that's kinda

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managed by the platform. And it has it does have an SSL on

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it. So when you sign up, you're not your stuff's not at risk.

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Right now, it's 4.99 a month is what we've got

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it set at, and we'll probably experiment with price because I

303
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know us. We do that. There's a 1st month for 3.99.

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You sign up, try it out. Again, if you don't like it, you

305
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can cancel it at any time. And in addition to that, there's the your

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first 7 days are free. So, like, almost

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every other subscription service, you sign up and you put in your credit

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card information. But then you if you

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cancel before the free part's done, then it doesn't cost

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you anything. So, again, HTTP, not an

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s, colon /data driven

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media dot tv. And to be fair, when Frank

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and Frank got the original domain, datadriven.tv for

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the podcast, this was the thought back in 20 was it

315
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2016? 2017? 2017. Yeah. Yeah. And that

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that we the idea was to do video,

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and it just it turned out to be,

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hard. It's probably the best way to say it. It's difficult

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and challenging. So we just launched with the audio part of

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it, and I'm still shocked that the

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audio has done as well as it does. The podcast has done as well, and

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that's really because of all of you. So if you're listening

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to the audio, if you wanted to go over and watch the video,

324
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see see me and Frank, and, you know, and kind

325
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of follow along the show. I was gonna say the unedited

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version, but we do so little editing these

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days. Right. It's only it's only, like, there's a couple of green

328
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room conversations you could kick out, you know, catch up on. The security one is

329
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awesome. This week in security, is that what it is? Or the

330
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security guys? Yeah. The the the green room presentation, I would say and

331
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that was a good show. Was almost as good as the show. Like Yeah.

332
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And see that that's so well. We'll edit out the stuff before

333
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Frank begins, the intro. Right. You know? We'll

334
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edit that out in the audio. That's included in the video.

335
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Right. And so they and the reason it was a good segue when we were

336
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talking about, you know, potential profanity, which we've and we and

337
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all of our guests have done a great job at at limiting. Right. There was

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one show, It's very intelligent guy. I listened to the

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show, and I've been around enough people

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who use profanity, and they're not angry when they do

341
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it. It's their way of speaking that I can separate those

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2. Not everybody's like that, and I'm not judging. I'm just

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saying. And and and if you knew me outside of a professional

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context dude, I grew up in New York City and North

345
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Jersey. What Come on. What do I call it, Frank, when you start?

346
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Go Jersey on you. That's right. Frank goes Jersey every now and then.

347
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So so so, like, so, like and that was kind of that and and this

348
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is a good example of, like, we're doing a retrospective. That was

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my NPR voice. But,

350
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you and I had a big debate about this. It was like I'm like,

351
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look. I get it. Like, I I wanna

352
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leave it in because we had a big debate. Like, I wanna leave it in.

353
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Right? Our podcasting platform and, apparently, a lot of them now have a flag of

354
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this episode is explicit. Right. Right? But

355
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then we kinda went back and forth on that and basically what you said, and

356
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I was just like and plus, I know that

357
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a lot of us listen to podcast with little ears

358
00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:58,650
in the car. Right? Yeah. And a big I wouldn't say

359
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problem. Like, his problems go as pretty good. Like, I would love to listen to,

360
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you know, the latest Joe Rogan when I was driving up to Pittsburgh. But

361
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Right. You know, how do I explain, like, you know, to my,

362
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you know, 9 year old, like, yeah. You shouldn't use bad words. He goes, but

363
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,960
Joe Rogan has you know, made a $1,000,000,000 deal, and he uses bad words. I

364
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,525
was like, okay. You know, like, it it so rather than have

365
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those awkward conversations, we decided

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to not publish it yet until I can get the

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time to bleep it through. And what's interesting

368
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is, I actually used AI to

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find the profanity. Right? So we have interesting.

370
00:23:38,875 --> 00:23:42,560
Yeah. Because yeah. I mean, I I do listen to the whole show, but, like,

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if I'm editing about I have my editing, like, mindset on.

372
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I need to do it quick. Right? And I tend to do it quick. So

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what I'll do is so what I did was I just ran it through. We

374
00:23:52,735 --> 00:23:56,519
use something called cast magic. And you know what? I'm gonna go

375
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out there on a limb and say, I will provide a affiliate link. You should

376
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,200
totally check out Cast Magic. It's freaking awesome. Because, basically,

377
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,835
what it does, all the show notes

378
00:24:08,095 --> 00:24:11,535
since, what, maybe, like, 6 months to a year now have been done with Cast

379
00:24:11,535 --> 00:24:14,355
Magic. So Cast Magic will let you

380
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upload an audio and or

381
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video now apparently. So, and

382
00:24:23,375 --> 00:24:27,215
then it'll create a a transcript. You identify the

383
00:24:27,215 --> 00:24:30,975
speakers. Right? Because you're basically marking up. It'll it'll identify when you're talking, when I'm

384
00:24:30,975 --> 00:24:34,330
talking. Yep. Right? But

385
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:37,850
it'll also run a series of AI prompts against it.

386
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:42,245
Like, here's the title for the show. There's here's the key moments. So if you

387
00:24:42,245 --> 00:24:46,005
look at last maybe 15, 20 episodes, those

388
00:24:46,005 --> 00:24:49,740
key moments have been selected by AI. And if I don't like it, I can

389
00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:53,020
regenerate it, but it works out really well. Yeah.

390
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:57,260
Because that is it's not labor intensive. That's not the right word. It's time

391
00:24:57,260 --> 00:25:00,995
intensive. Yeah. And I think if there's anything I've learned over the past, let's

392
00:25:00,995 --> 00:25:03,495
say, 5, 6 years is that time is the true currency.

393
00:25:04,835 --> 00:25:08,640
It's true. Time is the true measure of wealth, and it's

394
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the only thing that's ever really fairly distributed across life.

395
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,620
Talent's not, looks are not, money is not.

396
00:25:15,784 --> 00:25:19,404
Yeah. You name it. It's probably not evenly distributed. However,

397
00:25:20,585 --> 00:25:23,945
I've learned this from a guy I used to work with at Microsoft because he

398
00:25:23,945 --> 00:25:27,570
he was he had this whole rant, and we were

399
00:25:27,570 --> 00:25:31,409
stuck in a car ride from, like I say stuck like

400
00:25:31,409 --> 00:25:35,125
it's a bad thing, but we were stuck in a

401
00:25:35,125 --> 00:25:38,965
in a in an Uber ride from Sea Tac to Redmond. And, you

402
00:25:38,965 --> 00:25:42,790
know, hit the traffic the wrong way, that

403
00:25:42,790 --> 00:25:45,530
could not that's not a trivial drive. So

404
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:50,065
for for my for my peeps in the in the

405
00:25:50,065 --> 00:25:53,825
DC Beltway area, it's like going from from

406
00:25:53,825 --> 00:25:56,245
Silver Spring to Tysons Corner,

407
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:00,940
rush hour, or any time of day. Like, could be

408
00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:04,460
15 minutes, could be 3 hours. And if you hit the

409
00:26:04,460 --> 00:26:07,365
jackpot, could be 6 hours. Ask me how I know that one.

410
00:26:08,865 --> 00:26:12,245
So, long story short,

411
00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:15,860
the topic of gaming came up because there's a bunch of nerds in the car.

412
00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:18,580
And this one guy had basically purchased a,

413
00:26:19,885 --> 00:26:22,625
might have been Star Wars Galaxy, one of the big massively

414
00:26:23,645 --> 00:26:27,325
online things, right, which I don't play because I know it's a massive

415
00:26:27,325 --> 00:26:30,730
time sink and that will become my life. So it's just easier to avoid it.

416
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:34,549
And so he's he was really into it. He he

417
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:37,934
people were giving him the business,

418
00:26:39,755 --> 00:26:43,515
on he bought a premade character at, like, level 60 or level

419
00:26:43,515 --> 00:26:47,350
100. Right? And people were like, yeah. I shouldn't have done

420
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:51,130
that. You cheated. Blah blah blah blah blah. And then he had this excellent

421
00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:55,065
stump speech on the value of time. And he's like,

422
00:26:55,065 --> 00:26:58,424
look, I have a life. I have kids. I think his twins were born. I

423
00:26:58,424 --> 00:27:01,565
I I don't know. I have a job. I have this. I have a career.

424
00:27:01,625 --> 00:27:05,240
I just wanna play a game, and, you

425
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,080
know, I don't mind trading money for time because and then he went on

426
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,280
this whole thing, like, you know, you know, I have the same number of hours

427
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,585
in a day that Bill Gates has.

428
00:27:15,765 --> 00:27:19,605
Remember, all Microsoft nerds. Right? So we're and this is before Elon was in the

429
00:27:19,605 --> 00:27:23,410
top billionaire list. Right? I have the same number of hours a day that

430
00:27:23,410 --> 00:27:27,090
he does versus the beggar on the street versus anyone in the world. It's

431
00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:30,725
how I spend that money. And if you look at how Bill Gates spends his

432
00:27:30,725 --> 00:27:34,565
time or spends his money, it's really more of optimized his time. So what does

433
00:27:34,565 --> 00:27:38,160
that tell you? And I was like, woah.

434
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:42,700
Because when they were talking about the online game, it's a great point. And Yeah.

435
00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:45,645
I love to get him on the show. I don't think he does AI though,

436
00:27:45,725 --> 00:27:47,345
but he'd be an interesting character.

437
00:27:49,645 --> 00:27:53,485
But the interesting point because, like, during part of the conversation, again, it was a

438
00:27:53,485 --> 00:27:56,860
long drive. I can't when I start talking about this particular online game,

439
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,760
I kinda tuned it out because, well, I don't wanna know how good it is.

440
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,554
Right? The less I know, the better. The further I

441
00:28:04,554 --> 00:28:08,394
am away from the event horizon, the better. So when he started talking about,

442
00:28:08,394 --> 00:28:11,934
you know, the the time focusing and goes, like, wow, that's really good.

443
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:17,820
I think that's a really good idea, and that that kinda stuck with me. It's

444
00:28:17,820 --> 00:28:20,220
one of those things that kind of just lodges itself in the corner of your

445
00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:23,875
brain, and you start thinking about it. The short of it is is that by

446
00:28:23,875 --> 00:28:27,715
using these AI tools, we can produce more content. And if you notice, we've been

447
00:28:27,715 --> 00:28:31,540
really good with that over the last, you know, few months of

448
00:28:31,540 --> 00:28:35,140
putting out a show weekly or if not twice weekly. Because we did a

449
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:38,980
bonus show on leap day. Because I figured, bonus day, bonus,

450
00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:42,445
whatever. There we go. It's a great idea, but you're absolutely right.

451
00:28:42,445 --> 00:28:46,125
The the the impact that I'm seeing

452
00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:49,669
LLMs have these days Right. Is

453
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:52,250
more in, force multipliers,

454
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:56,924
in time savings, and that sort of stuff. And I had a

455
00:28:57,965 --> 00:29:01,565
my my recent anecdote about that happened in the past couple of

456
00:29:01,565 --> 00:29:05,290
weeks where I was responding to a request for a

457
00:29:05,290 --> 00:29:08,590
proposal. And I don't know if you've ever had an opportunity

458
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:12,645
to to look at RFPs. They vary. This one was

459
00:29:12,645 --> 00:29:16,485
relatively short for a a project that was probably

460
00:29:16,485 --> 00:29:20,105
gonna last, more than a year. And,

461
00:29:20,529 --> 00:29:23,429
you know, and they were doing this very,

462
00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:27,784
rigid process where you

463
00:29:27,784 --> 00:29:31,625
got the RFP. You had a couple of weeks to

464
00:29:31,625 --> 00:29:35,465
collect and send in the questions. And then the week after

465
00:29:35,465 --> 00:29:39,149
that, the proposal was due. You were gonna send in your proposal.

466
00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:42,510
You got one shot at the questions. And I was like, what?

467
00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:47,070
I'd like to I'm sure I'm gonna have more questions after I get these answers.

468
00:29:47,245 --> 00:29:50,785
Right. I can't do that. I'd like to sit down and talk to the people.

469
00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:54,925
Can't do that. It's like, I've gotta

470
00:29:54,925 --> 00:29:58,490
communicate using this writing. So at the end of

471
00:29:58,490 --> 00:30:01,310
it, when I got all of my questions back,

472
00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:06,855
we're running out of time, and I needed to, you know, to

473
00:30:06,855 --> 00:30:10,294
respond to the proposal. And I sat down with 1 of the

474
00:30:10,294 --> 00:30:13,640
engineers who would end up working with me for over a year,

475
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,820
drafted a really quick, you know, like, 4 sentences,

476
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,115
copied and pasted that, and then I used chatgptchatgpt4,

477
00:30:24,495 --> 00:30:27,395
and said, restate this,

478
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:31,990
you know, so that it's not as terse. I didn't use this this

479
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:35,590
prompt. But in my mind, I I the first prompt I thought of

480
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:38,955
was, you know, make it not seem like an engineer wrote

481
00:30:38,955 --> 00:30:42,415
it, which to be fair,

482
00:30:42,875 --> 00:30:46,580
I struggle with communicating with my wife whom I love

483
00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:50,039
dearly, not like an engineer would

484
00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:53,875
respond to it. One of my mentors told me years ago,

485
00:30:53,875 --> 00:30:56,695
and it like you were mentioning the conversation, it stuck.

486
00:30:57,635 --> 00:31:01,095
His boss had told him to go do some sales stuff.

487
00:31:01,770 --> 00:31:05,610
And he bring an engineer, and he said, I

488
00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:08,990
want you to talk to them like you're talking to your wife. And

489
00:31:09,595 --> 00:31:12,955
that was good advice, but that wouldn't work for me as well as it would

490
00:31:12,955 --> 00:31:16,655
for him because he was better at communicating with his wife than I am.

491
00:31:16,955 --> 00:31:20,590
But did the GPT did it. 1st pass,

492
00:31:20,590 --> 00:31:23,889
Frank. Me and the engineer looked at that, and we said

493
00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:27,935
copy and paste and send, And we ended up sending that. So 2

494
00:31:27,935 --> 00:31:31,615
things came to mind when you said that. 1, I married an

495
00:31:31,615 --> 00:31:35,430
engineer. So fun

496
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:39,110
fact, 1st engineer I dated, I end up marrying. I don't know. Maybe

497
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:42,885
there's causation correlation, but it would be unwise

498
00:31:42,885 --> 00:31:46,485
for me to do any more experimentation. Right? I would have to agree

499
00:31:46,485 --> 00:31:50,149
with this. That's that's my attempt at rim

500
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:53,190
shot. The other thing is I sent you this joke last night on,

501
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:57,465
YouTube shorts. Right? I saw it. An engineer goes to hell.

502
00:31:57,465 --> 00:32:01,225
This is the joke. It's really funny. That's so funny. Engineer

503
00:32:01,225 --> 00:32:04,745
goes to hell, and the devil sees him and was

504
00:32:04,745 --> 00:32:08,250
like, what are you doing here? And he goes, I don't know. So he he

505
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:12,170
he's like, it's too hot here. I'm gonna I'm gonna build an air conditioning system.

506
00:32:12,170 --> 00:32:15,825
So he builds an air conditioning. Hell becomes cool again and livable. Right?

507
00:32:15,885 --> 00:32:19,105
And he makes a bunch of other improvements because every time he sees something wrong.

508
00:32:19,805 --> 00:32:23,580
And god's talking to the devil and he goes, how's things

509
00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:25,920
down there? I bet it's hot. He goes, actually, no.

510
00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:31,420
And he's like, what do you mean? Oh, yeah. This guy came here. He's an

511
00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:34,605
engineer. He made all these improvements. And he was like, well, that's a mistake. He

512
00:32:34,605 --> 00:32:38,205
clearly shouldn't be there. He has to come to heaven. And he goes, no. You

513
00:32:38,205 --> 00:32:41,970
know, he goes, no. I'm keeping him. I'm keeping him. He goes,

514
00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:44,929
yeah. Well, I'll sue you. And then the devil just looks at them and laughs

515
00:32:44,929 --> 00:32:46,309
at him. Where are you gonna get a lawyer?

516
00:32:50,794 --> 00:32:53,855
That's so mean. I know. I've somewhat

517
00:32:55,275 --> 00:32:58,635
as someone who spent the last a a good part of the last, 15 months

518
00:32:58,635 --> 00:33:02,440
with lawyers. I understand why you sent

519
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,880
it to me. I got it I thought it was funny. I thought laughed, and

520
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,505
then I was like, I know why Frank sent us. Law lawyers are

521
00:33:09,505 --> 00:33:13,345
good when they're on your side. Right? True. And you had a great lawyer. But

522
00:33:13,505 --> 00:33:16,645
Our our lawyer was awesome. She was the best. She

523
00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:21,530
when family law is a different animal, and I

524
00:33:21,530 --> 00:33:25,370
never had to encounter. But Yeah. Somebody once said it's the best way to

525
00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:28,995
be to get financially and emotionally drained in 1

526
00:33:28,995 --> 00:33:32,755
in 1 fell swoop. And I could totally see it. Like, it because there's, like,

527
00:33:32,755 --> 00:33:36,330
this is part of the I don't know, man. It's just if you can avoid

528
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:40,549
it Yeah. Highly recommend you do. I I I I would I would

529
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:43,850
give it a Yelp review of do not recommend, you know, 0 stars.

530
00:33:44,855 --> 00:33:48,695
But people don't go there typically by choice, I guess. But it's just a

531
00:33:48,695 --> 00:33:51,675
it's just a as particularly when you're dealing with, like, the social

532
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:55,990
welfare system, it's just dismal. You know, we were we would

533
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:59,770
be there in waiting rooms, and there would be, other kids there waiting to see,

534
00:34:00,174 --> 00:34:04,015
you know, their pet it's it's just god awful. It's the only

535
00:34:04,015 --> 00:34:07,855
way I can the only way I can say it, and meet our

536
00:34:07,855 --> 00:34:10,659
language requirements. There there we go. Yes.

537
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,679
But, I forget how we got off topic. Oh, yes. So it

538
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,224
was Jack CPT. Yeah. No. I mean, it's totally

539
00:34:19,224 --> 00:34:22,665
great for, like, some live music. Minutes. You know? Yeah. I mean

540
00:34:22,984 --> 00:34:25,625
and this is like you were able to respond. I'm assuming you were able to

541
00:34:25,625 --> 00:34:29,370
respond to that. I was. Yeah. But I've also found that it's

542
00:34:29,370 --> 00:34:33,210
helpful to build out so I I signed

543
00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:36,965
up for Gemini when I first came out. Mhmm. Right? And one of

544
00:34:36,965 --> 00:34:40,344
the example prompts to give you on the screen is, you

545
00:34:40,565 --> 00:34:44,359
know, act like you're, you

546
00:34:44,359 --> 00:34:47,900
know, a fictional character. I think it might have been somebody from, like, a Dickens

547
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,719
novel or whatever. You know, start to comp be conversational and start

548
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,545
talking about the weather. And I'm like, what if I made this a

549
00:34:55,545 --> 00:34:58,445
character from The Expanse? So Christine Avasarala,

550
00:34:59,865 --> 00:35:03,440
who I I can't describe her,

551
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,119
but she would not pass the language test. Let's put that one. She wouldn't, but

552
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:10,805
she is an awesome character. Such a well written character. Her and

553
00:35:10,805 --> 00:35:14,645
Amos Burton. Streamy. All of them, really. They kept

554
00:35:14,645 --> 00:35:18,329
that whole series. I I said this, back

555
00:35:18,329 --> 00:35:21,609
when I read the first book, and it there were maybe 4 out when I

556
00:35:21,609 --> 00:35:25,210
read the first one. I said, this is the best writing. Hands

557
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:28,895
down, not sci fi. Just the best writing

558
00:35:28,955 --> 00:35:32,715
I've read in about a decade. Right. No. It's just

559
00:35:32,715 --> 00:35:36,315
really well written. Like It is. And it I mean, read the books. The series

560
00:35:36,315 --> 00:35:39,819
is good. Don't get me wrong. I mean, this I don't know how you understand

561
00:35:39,819 --> 00:35:43,660
the series without having read the books. So I saw the series,

562
00:35:43,660 --> 00:35:47,425
then I read the books. Oh, so how did that go? That's great. So good

563
00:35:47,425 --> 00:35:51,265
usage. Tell you that you can appreciate the fine

564
00:35:51,265 --> 00:35:54,760
details. Like, there's one scene and this is not spoiler. Right? So so the

565
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,440
asteroid series, it's the first season in the first

566
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,835
book starts off there. And there's this whole segment where

567
00:36:01,835 --> 00:36:05,615
Miller, who's like a detective, is

568
00:36:05,675 --> 00:36:09,440
is basically complaining about the transit system, on

569
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,320
and how it works. He's talking about the trans system, how it works, and or

570
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,000
doesn't work as the case may be. And and he was describing the various

571
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,775
lines and the various stops and things like that. And if you

572
00:36:20,815 --> 00:36:24,414
when I rewatch season 1, there's they actually have in in the

573
00:36:24,414 --> 00:36:28,130
subway car well, not subway, but you get the idea. The trains, they actually

574
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:31,970
have maps that match exactly his description, like,

575
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:35,650
from the book. So there's a whole lot of, like, set design and

576
00:36:35,650 --> 00:36:39,495
stuff that I after reading the books because there's always that one

577
00:36:39,495 --> 00:36:43,175
guy or gal that's like, the book's better. Like, oh, shut up.

578
00:36:43,175 --> 00:36:46,520
Right? That's it. That's actually my my my my my internal voice.

579
00:36:46,820 --> 00:36:50,420
I liked them both, Frank, and I read the books first. But I

580
00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:54,265
when after reading so I saw the series first, and I didn't watch it till

581
00:36:54,265 --> 00:36:57,865
season 3 because it was in the sci fi channel Mhmm. Or

582
00:36:57,865 --> 00:37:01,484
season 2 because I just had no faith in the sci fi channel,

583
00:37:03,340 --> 00:37:06,940
keeping good shows on the air for more than, like, 3 years. And I'm

584
00:37:06,940 --> 00:37:10,734
referring to Defiance. Defiance was a really good show that got canceled

585
00:37:10,734 --> 00:37:13,155
before its time. Yeah. But,

586
00:37:15,695 --> 00:37:17,855
I was like, oh, you tell me I had to watch it. And I was

587
00:37:17,855 --> 00:37:21,680
like, well, I'll I'll watch it. You know, 2 seasons have been out, and

588
00:37:22,059 --> 00:37:25,579
if sci fi when sci fi, you know,

589
00:37:25,579 --> 00:37:29,305
cancels it, at least have the books to kinda finish the story.

590
00:37:29,605 --> 00:37:33,125
Right. And I was just

591
00:37:33,125 --> 00:37:36,560
enthralled. So then I read, I saw, you know, the first season, then I

592
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,240
read season 1, and I'm like, this is

593
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,755
really good. Like and and then I rewatched season 1, and I was like, it

594
00:37:43,755 --> 00:37:47,115
just adds more depth to it. So it's, like Yeah. It it that's very rare

595
00:37:47,115 --> 00:37:50,955
that you have you know, people

596
00:37:50,955 --> 00:37:53,197
say the book is better than the movie or the movie is better than the

597
00:37:53,197 --> 00:37:56,800
book or TV show, whatever. But it's

598
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,260
very rare that they both make each other better. Yeah.

599
00:38:00,895 --> 00:38:04,735
Like and when they make decisions where they they merge characters,

600
00:38:04,735 --> 00:38:08,575
it makes a lot more sense. Yeah. Like, even if you don't

601
00:38:08,575 --> 00:38:11,870
go, oh, Alex, for instance. Right? The character of Alex is

602
00:38:12,810 --> 00:38:16,650
removed from the show because of outside reasons, outside

603
00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:20,345
shenanigans he got himself into. But

604
00:38:20,345 --> 00:38:24,045
he's still in the book, which is interesting.

605
00:38:25,065 --> 00:38:28,910
So so I was a bit salty when I was relieved when Amazon

606
00:38:28,910 --> 00:38:32,750
took it over. Mhmm. Yeah. Which is funny because the first

607
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:35,890
thing they did was with, Christian Alvaro's

608
00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:39,974
character. She curses like a sailor in

609
00:38:39,974 --> 00:38:43,674
the in in the first Amazon season, like, from, like, the first 5 minutes,

610
00:38:43,974 --> 00:38:46,460
which is kinda like, oh, they don't have to worry about that anymore.

611
00:38:47,980 --> 00:38:50,400
And, the other,

612
00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:56,565
thing was, apparently, Jeff Bezos himself is a big fan of those

613
00:38:56,565 --> 00:38:59,785
books. So when sci fi got the rights

614
00:39:00,325 --> 00:39:03,765
I don't know if this is true, but the scuttlebutt on the interwebs because everything

615
00:39:03,765 --> 00:39:07,470
on the Internet is true. Was he,

616
00:39:07,470 --> 00:39:10,830
like, he had a conniption? He, like, he had a fit. Like, how did they

617
00:39:10,830 --> 00:39:14,164
lose? How did they lose? So so when sci fi canceled it, they basically swooped

618
00:39:14,164 --> 00:39:17,525
in, like, almost right away. Yeah. Now I am

619
00:39:17,525 --> 00:39:21,150
supremely disappointed that they chose not to continue the rest of

620
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:24,290
the series. Yeah. But I remain hopeful because,

621
00:39:28,115 --> 00:39:30,695
in the stories themselves, there's a time gap between

622
00:39:31,715 --> 00:39:35,175
series of books. So maybe There there is. And where they stopped

623
00:39:35,650 --> 00:39:38,690
was a good spot to stop. It's It was a good spot. It's the end

624
00:39:38,690 --> 00:39:42,450
of it's the end of the first set. The first part? Yes.

625
00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:45,825
It jumps. What is it? I it jumps at least 20

626
00:39:45,825 --> 00:39:49,265
years. I was, like, 18, 20 years. Something. Yeah. A long

627
00:39:49,265 --> 00:39:51,285
time. It was a big jump.

628
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,599
But and the thing about it is if you read the books, I'm not trying

629
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:59,359
to and then no spoilers. But if you read the books, you could almost

630
00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:03,155
start at that point because of the backfill that they

631
00:40:03,155 --> 00:40:06,935
wrote. It's oh, yeah. Again, it's the best reading I I've read.

632
00:40:07,475 --> 00:40:10,455
It it's in the top I'd say it's in the top ten

633
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,040
easy and maybe in the top 5. And I'm putting series in there

634
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,880
because I'm a I love series, first off. But I'm putting series in

635
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,244
there like the Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia.

636
00:40:22,785 --> 00:40:25,765
And Right. You know, I'm I'm a fan of the Longmire

637
00:40:26,224 --> 00:40:29,365
novels as well, so completely different genre.

638
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:33,660
But, you know, they're very well written. And I

639
00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:37,395
like I like when I say multidimensional, that's what I the word I

640
00:40:37,395 --> 00:40:40,135
was gonna use. I like multidimensional. I'm not talking about,

641
00:40:41,475 --> 00:40:45,095
necessarily space because the Longmire novels, which are set

642
00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:49,100
in, you know, out in the west, the US West. Oh, Longmire. I think you

643
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:52,940
said Longmire. Sorry about that. It's okay. Yeah. But that was a

644
00:40:53,020 --> 00:40:56,605
and it was a series about that as well. Same. They they managed to do

645
00:40:56,605 --> 00:41:00,445
the same sort of thing. They're different story based on the same

646
00:41:00,445 --> 00:41:04,160
characters and also also well written. I watched this I did

647
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,619
what you did with Expanse. I watched the series first and

648
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:12,195
and then started reading the novels. And I think the 20th novel in that

649
00:41:12,195 --> 00:41:15,415
series is coming out next month or the month after.

650
00:41:16,435 --> 00:41:20,089
It's a but, again, multidimensional in this way that

651
00:41:20,089 --> 00:41:23,770
it's not it's definitely more than just

652
00:41:23,770 --> 00:41:27,425
one topic, I guess, is the right way to say it.

653
00:41:27,425 --> 00:41:29,525
The the plot involves

654
00:41:31,265 --> 00:41:34,620
more than just people. I don't I don't know how to say that without expect

655
00:41:34,780 --> 00:41:38,540
you know? But it it's definitely, an

656
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:42,125
a view into other cultures and stuff like that.

657
00:41:42,345 --> 00:41:45,645
So Interesting. I think what they wrote,

658
00:41:46,025 --> 00:41:49,760
what, Ty and I I can't remember

659
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,540
the other guy's name. Ty Franks and,

660
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:57,440
SA Curry is Corey. Right? James SA Corey. Yeah. It's

661
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,135
really a name together. Right. So and but it's 2

662
00:42:01,535 --> 00:42:05,375
and I think they worked they wrote with Lucas. They

663
00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:09,030
did. That shows. I, yeah, I believe that's where they they came out

664
00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:12,790
of the starboard again. They were, I guess, lit

665
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:16,755
for somebody is gonna shoot me hate mail for this, but I'll I'll say

666
00:42:16,755 --> 00:42:20,595
it anyway. They were, like, gophers for, George

667
00:42:20,595 --> 00:42:21,575
r r Martin.

668
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,680
Right? That may be what I was thinking of, but I thought they've I thought

669
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,905
I read that they were involved in that, but the whole They might have been.

670
00:42:30,985 --> 00:42:34,745
So opera, we'll just say it that way, but then definitely a space opera

671
00:42:34,745 --> 00:42:37,805
where you have to create essentially a universe of characters

672
00:42:38,665 --> 00:42:42,329
and politics and history. So I

673
00:42:42,329 --> 00:42:45,450
was doing some research on this. So so one of they were interviewed in one

674
00:42:45,450 --> 00:42:48,329
of the, origins was it where they were contracted to

675
00:42:49,494 --> 00:42:52,934
we're back on MMOs again. They were contracted to write

676
00:42:52,934 --> 00:42:56,714
a backdrop and plot kind of structure for a MMO

677
00:42:57,210 --> 00:43:01,050
that was set, like, in the future and etcetera,

678
00:43:01,050 --> 00:43:04,890
etcetera. Yeah. So that might have been the motivation, plus the fact that

679
00:43:04,890 --> 00:43:08,735
they had worked for George r Martin. I don't know what

680
00:43:08,735 --> 00:43:12,415
to say. I'm sure one of our listeners will will dig in and correct us

681
00:43:12,495 --> 00:43:15,940
Yeah. Yeah. If we've if we've misspoken. And we love it when that happens.

682
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:18,599
Absolutely. That's why what somebody's listening.

683
00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:25,535
Well, when we started, I would joke like, well, at least my mom will listen.

684
00:43:25,694 --> 00:43:29,535
That's true. I know. But the, the re I

685
00:43:29,535 --> 00:43:32,595
think one of the reasons we were going there is I I was gonna plug

686
00:43:32,910 --> 00:43:36,349
my, as of today, it's my latest post on,

687
00:43:36,510 --> 00:43:39,390
andylenard.blog, and it talks about how to,

688
00:43:40,915 --> 00:43:44,435
how to use, OpenAI's ability to create

689
00:43:44,435 --> 00:43:48,275
custom GPTs. And I just walk you through. I do that a lot. I do

690
00:43:48,275 --> 00:43:51,859
tutorials or screenshots and stuff. Granted, I wrote

691
00:43:51,859 --> 00:43:55,700
the post, I think, about 3 weeks ago, posted it a

692
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:59,275
week, week and a half, 2 weeks ago. And, probably, it's out of

693
00:43:59,275 --> 00:44:02,735
date already. That happens all the time. Oh, especially here.

694
00:44:03,115 --> 00:44:06,910
Especially in the space. Yeah. But but the character I created, I

695
00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:10,750
started with one of their suggestions like you did with Gemini. And I

696
00:44:10,750 --> 00:44:14,210
said, create a code formatting,

697
00:44:15,869 --> 00:44:19,695
you know, a chat l LLM, and,

698
00:44:20,015 --> 00:44:23,775
they call them GPTs, custom GPTs. And have the I am

699
00:44:23,775 --> 00:44:26,920
gonna share my screen and look at the blog post because we are on video,

700
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,600
and some people will choose to watch this video. That's true. So

701
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,445
here it is. And you can under the blog. And I had it used like

702
00:44:34,445 --> 00:44:37,965
a character from The Expanse, Bobby Draper, one of my

703
00:44:37,965 --> 00:44:40,705
favorite characters. She's a Martian marine,

704
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:45,520
Basically yeah. Martian marine gunnery sergeant. She's awesome.

705
00:44:46,059 --> 00:44:49,760
She is. She's very, very tough and

706
00:44:50,244 --> 00:44:54,005
a great character. But and and I

707
00:44:54,005 --> 00:44:57,760
put a couple of quotes in there. She, she she makes

708
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,520
good suggestions as I go through this, but, yeah, I named her code formatted

709
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,360
Draper. Had GPT generate the image for me there of the kids. The

710
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,964
Martian motif too. Ain't that interesting? Yeah. That is cool.

711
00:45:10,145 --> 00:45:13,265
And I think it generated more than 1, and that was why I just got

712
00:45:13,265 --> 00:45:17,090
to pick that one out of there. And, yeah, threw some code in and

713
00:45:17,090 --> 00:45:20,630
had it had it do the formatting. So

714
00:45:21,330 --> 00:45:24,655
neat neat way to do that. Frank and I both have blogs. Mine's Andy Leonard

715
00:45:24,655 --> 00:45:28,175
dot blog. Frank is is way, way beyond. I cannot

716
00:45:28,175 --> 00:45:31,890
snatch the pebble from Frank's hand in blogging. Franksworld.com.

717
00:45:32,830 --> 00:45:36,350
25 years old, Frank? Well, the domain is,

718
00:45:36,990 --> 00:45:40,685
started in 95, but the blog part of it, the tech blog

719
00:45:40,685 --> 00:45:44,525
part of it started in 2004. So that was that's 20

720
00:45:44,525 --> 00:45:48,319
years. Although when I lived in Germany, I used the service called Blogger, which I

721
00:45:48,319 --> 00:45:51,760
don't even know if they're still around. But I all and I had written

722
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,420
a pipe Perl script

723
00:45:55,735 --> 00:45:59,335
to scrape the RSS feed and then post it on the actual

724
00:45:59,335 --> 00:46:03,090
domain because I didn't wanna give up my own domain owners. Now see now

725
00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:06,850
see that brings us to another thing we wanted to talk about. Oh, is this

726
00:46:06,850 --> 00:46:10,310
Dingo? Frank's been automating blog posts,

727
00:46:11,615 --> 00:46:15,375
and he automated a whole lot of this, activity that goes on

728
00:46:15,375 --> 00:46:19,155
behind putting a show, data driven dot TV show episode,

729
00:46:19,935 --> 00:46:23,680
out. And it made it so much easier. It was so easy

730
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,359
I could do it. But he had to write a lot of this

731
00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:30,945
from, you know, from scratch when he started writing it. But what

732
00:46:30,945 --> 00:46:34,545
grew out of that was this project you called Dingo, and that's that's

733
00:46:34,545 --> 00:46:38,305
serving that up, Frank. There you go. Tell us about Dingo,

734
00:46:38,305 --> 00:46:41,760
Frank. So we did talk about Dingo before because I was talking about open sourcing

735
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,120
it. And I'm still I'm still I haven't done it yet, and it's not because

736
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,964
I've changed my mind. It's just because I you open source

737
00:46:48,964 --> 00:46:52,805
something. You kinda have to do things the right way. And for me, now that

738
00:46:52,805 --> 00:46:56,319
I have 3 kids, I have to think about how can I

739
00:46:56,319 --> 00:46:59,680
best optimize the, the

740
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,059
career and monetary potential? Speaking about time.

741
00:47:04,045 --> 00:47:04,785
Oh, yeah.

742
00:47:07,724 --> 00:47:10,525
Yeah. We're at, like, 45 minutes ish, I think. So,

743
00:47:12,619 --> 00:47:16,140
but good good call on that. Because we we we we tried the Joe Rogan

744
00:47:16,140 --> 00:47:19,900
multi hour thing. A couple episodes back, we did an

745
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:23,155
experiment. The the views on that the listens on that was pretty

746
00:47:25,295 --> 00:47:29,109
not Joe Rogan level. Let's put it that way. They were off putting, I think,

747
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:32,950
when people clicked on it and saw the time bar. Right. It really, like

748
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:35,910
Yeah. And it was, like, you know what? That works out better too because for

749
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:39,685
to find contiguous 3 hour blocks or 2 hour blocks of time for the

750
00:47:39,685 --> 00:47:43,125
both of us, plus a guest, is nigh

751
00:47:43,125 --> 00:47:46,240
impossible. So you know what? It's hard enough to do an hour.

752
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:50,540
I'm okay with the hour thing, the 45 minutes to I I I

753
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:54,175
I think if the conversation's right, I I I could justify going

754
00:47:54,175 --> 00:47:57,695
to 90 minutes. But beyond that, I don't think there's any serious

755
00:47:57,695 --> 00:48:01,455
value. That's right. And and and calm down. The 90 minutes is gonna be an

756
00:48:01,455 --> 00:48:05,119
outlier. Right. Right. Just because it's just

757
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,400
because I don't know. Like, I just think that we have a sweet spot. We

758
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,995
have it works. Yeah. So

759
00:48:12,235 --> 00:48:15,935
So you were working on this post here, the Glaze post? Yes.

760
00:48:16,075 --> 00:48:19,190
So this is actually so I gave a a talk, I gave a couple of

761
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:22,730
talks on, Tech Days Pakistan.

762
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:27,575
I didn't go to Pakistan. I did it remotely. Then I did

763
00:48:27,575 --> 00:48:31,415
a live stream, and then I did, actually, I think I still

764
00:48:31,415 --> 00:48:34,620
have it up on the the thing.

765
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:38,540
And then, inter an

766
00:48:38,540 --> 00:48:42,000
internal lunch and learn brown bag session at Red Hat

767
00:48:43,725 --> 00:48:46,465
for a certain group. And then based on that,

768
00:48:47,885 --> 00:48:51,645
somebody said, have you heard about Glaze? And I had heard about

769
00:48:51,645 --> 00:48:55,330
something that, basically this is not the project I heard

770
00:48:55,330 --> 00:48:59,090
about. This is a second one. But Glaze is the idea is that it will

771
00:48:59,090 --> 00:49:02,885
interfere with the scraping and learning of an name of a of a

772
00:49:02,885 --> 00:49:05,065
of an AI can't talk.

773
00:49:06,405 --> 00:49:10,100
Of bots that sweep the Internet

774
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,740
looking for content to train Gen AI models on.

775
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,234
Gotcha. And that is the as of now, the latest post on

776
00:49:18,234 --> 00:49:21,835
frankswell.com. Yeah. But you could just look it up on Glaze. So

777
00:49:21,835 --> 00:49:25,600
somebody there sent me, this is interesting

778
00:49:25,740 --> 00:49:29,420
because this is the the slide I gave the talk on

779
00:49:29,420 --> 00:49:33,255
because we're talking about this. Right? And I'm not, you know,

780
00:49:34,515 --> 00:49:37,474
I also did a live stream on this on LinkedIn. But did I mention that

781
00:49:37,474 --> 00:49:41,040
already? It's time for a coffee reload. That's the other thing too with these

782
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,480
multi hour shows is that there's biology becomes a

783
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,780
problem. Right. Coffee and intake becomes a problem.

784
00:49:49,745 --> 00:49:53,425
So the this the topic of this talk was basically the importance of open source

785
00:49:53,425 --> 00:49:57,185
in AI. Right? And and basically, like, we don't know what data was used

786
00:49:57,185 --> 00:50:00,980
to train it. And if you're watching this, you see the cute images I

787
00:50:00,980 --> 00:50:04,099
have that we don't know how it was trained. We don't know what the model

788
00:50:04,099 --> 00:50:07,675
does. And then I said, surely, a foundation model

789
00:50:07,675 --> 00:50:11,215
owner will share this information openly and freely. Mhmm.

790
00:50:11,595 --> 00:50:14,990
And this is a the the pained look of expression,

791
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:18,730
from Mira Murati, which I think is how you say it, or Myra. I've heard

792
00:50:18,730 --> 00:50:22,365
you call you call Myra too. Basically, was

793
00:50:22,365 --> 00:50:26,125
asked by a Wall Street Journal reporter, hey. Where'd you train your data for

794
00:50:26,125 --> 00:50:29,400
this? And she

795
00:50:29,619 --> 00:50:32,599
kinda that's the face she made. Yeah.

796
00:50:35,539 --> 00:50:39,125
And she claims to not know, and I

797
00:50:39,125 --> 00:50:42,244
call shenanigans on that because Yeah. Obvious depending on

798
00:50:43,365 --> 00:50:47,180
because if you look at her resume on LinkedIn, she's

799
00:50:47,180 --> 00:50:49,760
been part of the Elon Musk Cinematic Universe.

800
00:50:51,260 --> 00:50:54,320
I like that. That's to e the EMCU.

801
00:50:54,914 --> 00:50:58,755
She's been part of that world and, like, that level, and her education

802
00:50:58,755 --> 00:51:02,375
is is appears to be top notch. Mhmm.

803
00:51:02,434 --> 00:51:06,020
She knows. Like, she's been part of, like, Tesla when they were doing, like, the

804
00:51:06,020 --> 00:51:09,780
the putting AI in Tesla's, like, in the early 20 tens, which is way before

805
00:51:09,780 --> 00:51:13,315
it was cool. Right? So she she has a long history of this. For her

806
00:51:13,315 --> 00:51:16,535
not to know, I find highly unlikely.

807
00:51:17,235 --> 00:51:20,790
Right? I just find that suspect. I find that unlikely.

808
00:51:21,090 --> 00:51:24,930
I think that was I think it was a, uh-oh, speaking of

809
00:51:24,930 --> 00:51:27,590
lawyers. Right.

810
00:51:29,795 --> 00:51:33,555
But that was basically the gist. You showed the earlier slide with a quote

811
00:51:33,555 --> 00:51:37,095
where Elon is suing OpenAI. Yeah. Yeah. And,

812
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,600
you know, part of it I I think before

813
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,360
that suit, this is about something different. He's trying to get OpenAI to be

814
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,115
open again. Right. And and he had a hand in founding it,

815
00:51:49,115 --> 00:51:52,795
so I definitely get his point on that. But before

816
00:51:52,795 --> 00:51:56,440
that, there was, he he was tweeting

817
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,420
about and this is November 2022,

818
00:51:59,799 --> 00:52:03,625
December, about how all of these people trying

819
00:52:03,625 --> 00:52:07,385
to compete with chat GPT when it was released back then by

820
00:52:07,385 --> 00:52:11,065
scraping tweets. And he was they were trying to

821
00:52:11,065 --> 00:52:14,630
prevent that from happening, which sounds like what Glace does

822
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:18,230
now Right. Is ways of obfuscating it or at least

823
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:21,895
increasing the difficulty. That's but it's a perpetual

824
00:52:22,195 --> 00:52:25,555
cycle with anybody who is going after

825
00:52:25,555 --> 00:52:29,395
information, and that now includes people trying to scrape the web to get data

826
00:52:29,395 --> 00:52:33,210
to train AIs. But before

827
00:52:33,210 --> 00:52:36,970
that, it was hackers. You know? And I don't think this is going away.

828
00:52:36,970 --> 00:52:40,735
I think there's just gonna be yet another, you know,

829
00:52:40,735 --> 00:52:44,115
another instance where people are trying to get to information,

830
00:52:45,055 --> 00:52:48,755
for whatever reason. I mean, this happened to me in

831
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:53,750
2008 or 2009. There was a a a

832
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:56,570
company, and they aggregated

833
00:52:57,565 --> 00:53:00,925
technical blog posts and charged for the

834
00:53:00,925 --> 00:53:04,765
aggregation so people could subscribe, you know, to the I remember

835
00:53:04,765 --> 00:53:08,060
this. I remember this now. It was a bit of an exchange.

836
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,200
I'll I'll admit. And I ended up kinda going through 2

837
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,905
or 3 of them, and they were like they said, you're making your information

838
00:53:15,965 --> 00:53:19,405
available publicly for free. And I said, I

839
00:53:19,405 --> 00:53:22,465
am. And they said, so why can't we

840
00:53:23,410 --> 00:53:27,170
create, you know, summaries? They weren't copying it, but that that also

841
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:30,869
happened, copying and pasting the post and putting them elsewhere.

842
00:53:31,089 --> 00:53:34,845
That was a different thing than this. They're like, why can't why can't we

843
00:53:34,845 --> 00:53:38,684
do this? And I said, for the same reason that others can't copy and

844
00:53:38,684 --> 00:53:42,300
paste their post to put their name. I own this, and I get

845
00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:45,820
to say. And if I wanted to create a newsletter and

846
00:53:45,820 --> 00:53:49,340
aggregate it and charge people, I don't know, $10 a month or

847
00:53:49,340 --> 00:53:53,095
something, then that would be different. But you

848
00:53:53,095 --> 00:53:56,935
don't have you didn't even ask. Right. And like and and you do not

849
00:53:56,935 --> 00:54:00,670
have my permission to do that, and I don't want people to have to

850
00:54:00,670 --> 00:54:04,430
pay you for my content. That's that was my

851
00:54:04,430 --> 00:54:08,109
argument. Now is it wrong or bad? That I don't know.

852
00:54:08,109 --> 00:54:11,875
It's how I felt. Right. It's,

853
00:54:12,015 --> 00:54:15,455
you know, and it's gonna get real

854
00:54:15,455 --> 00:54:18,430
interesting. Mhmm. You know?

855
00:54:19,450 --> 00:54:23,210
I mean, you know, so what what is interesting is we're recording

856
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:26,585
this on the 21st March

857
00:54:26,585 --> 00:54:29,945
2024. And either today or

858
00:54:29,945 --> 00:54:33,465
tomorrow, there's a there's a case before the Supreme

859
00:54:33,465 --> 00:54:37,099
Court about the interaction between the federal

860
00:54:37,099 --> 00:54:40,160
government and the TLAs, the 3 letter agencies,

861
00:54:41,019 --> 00:54:44,595
and and social media. Oh,

862
00:54:44,975 --> 00:54:48,734
yeah. Circling around. And, you know, I I think it started it's been

863
00:54:48,734 --> 00:54:52,550
renamed, but it was Missouri versus Biden or Biden

864
00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:56,390
versus Missouri. It's been renamed into a different thing. And how

865
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:59,830
do you feel about that? You know, I'm not telling you, you know, feel one

866
00:54:59,830 --> 00:55:03,635
way or another, but it's definitely No. There are other places to

867
00:55:03,635 --> 00:55:07,475
do that. It's it's well, it's crossing into the I'll say this about it. It's

868
00:55:07,475 --> 00:55:11,080
crossing into this kind of into the same thing about the AI

869
00:55:11,140 --> 00:55:14,900
and and social media. You've got, of course, a common common

870
00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:17,880
thing here with social media. But more than that,

871
00:55:18,635 --> 00:55:22,475
the impact of technology on

872
00:55:22,475 --> 00:55:26,155
culture. Yes. And a popular story that I've

873
00:55:26,155 --> 00:55:29,519
seen over the last 10 days or so has been

874
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:34,460
accusations of suppressing certain

875
00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:38,155
information and search from a popular search engine.

876
00:55:39,174 --> 00:55:42,934
If that's the accusation, I'll I'll use the, you know, the official word

877
00:55:42,934 --> 00:55:46,549
allegedly. I don't know. I really don't

878
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:50,069
know. But I will say that it

879
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:52,650
tends to go one way.

880
00:55:53,795 --> 00:55:57,555
There's definitely a cultural mindset that seems to be

881
00:55:57,555 --> 00:56:01,255
the victim and another cultural mindset

882
00:56:01,420 --> 00:56:04,480
that seems to get a great big free pass.

883
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:09,194
And that while I don't expect I don't

884
00:56:09,194 --> 00:56:12,895
expect equal coverage, I know the FCC did that for years.

885
00:56:13,035 --> 00:56:16,415
Fun fact, in the eighties, I worked at a television station.

886
00:56:17,260 --> 00:56:20,940
Really? I was, I was an I was an engineer, but it meant something different.

887
00:56:20,940 --> 00:56:24,300
But, yeah, like, when you watch the local news Yeah. And,

888
00:56:24,825 --> 00:56:27,865
and the stories were running and all of that, I was the guy putting the

889
00:56:27,865 --> 00:56:31,625
tapes in the machines and queuing them up and get the director would push a

890
00:56:31,625 --> 00:56:34,445
button and it would take off. So yeah. It was a fun gig,

891
00:56:36,250 --> 00:56:39,550
But the FCC had this rule about equal time for politics

892
00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:43,265
specifically. Right. Right. Right. So and it essentially

893
00:56:43,325 --> 00:56:46,684
meant that if you gave, let's just use

894
00:56:46,684 --> 00:56:50,319
democrats, and republicans. I'm not trying to say that

895
00:56:50,460 --> 00:56:53,900
there's not more there are, and it's getting really interesting. Seems like

896
00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:57,260
every presidential election cycle in the US, the

897
00:56:57,260 --> 00:57:01,065
independence, they'd put up somebody more and more interesting and

898
00:57:01,065 --> 00:57:04,765
likely to garner more votes. But if if you gave a democrat

899
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,339
10 minutes to say, you know, their piece, you'd have to give a Republican

900
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,155
10 minutes to say their piece. That was the whole thing about equal time. And

901
00:57:13,155 --> 00:57:16,675
I think they're striving for that same sort of

902
00:57:16,675 --> 00:57:20,420
balance, in in you know, with with

903
00:57:20,579 --> 00:57:23,880
popular search engines, with social media Right. Sites.

904
00:57:23,940 --> 00:57:27,240
And it's been interesting to watch that,

905
00:57:27,540 --> 00:57:31,255
kinda watch that argument. And it's because it's

906
00:57:31,255 --> 00:57:35,015
interesting to me because I end, I enjoy and

907
00:57:35,015 --> 00:57:38,660
I'm involved and engaged in the culture. You know?

908
00:57:38,660 --> 00:57:42,260
I'm I'm would say so are you. Even if

909
00:57:42,340 --> 00:57:46,100
and not you, Frank, but you are a listener. You are also engaged in our

910
00:57:46,100 --> 00:57:49,715
culture. People are engaged by the culture by

911
00:57:49,715 --> 00:57:53,395
default. Like, there's no opt there's no opt out for that mailing list. And and

912
00:57:53,395 --> 00:57:56,759
that that great. That's funny. The great philosopher,

913
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:00,579
Geddy Lee, may have said it best. If you just if you choose not to

914
00:58:00,579 --> 00:58:03,880
decide, you still have made a choice. That's true.

915
00:58:04,555 --> 00:58:08,315
Yeah. So It was Geddy Lee. I thought it was Snoopy. Did

916
00:58:08,315 --> 00:58:12,100
Snoopy say that? Well, Geddy Lee wrote it's in part of free will from the

917
00:58:12,100 --> 00:58:15,700
spirit of the radio in, that Rush album back in the that would have been

918
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:19,540
in the eighties, I think. I don't know. Maybe then. Yeah. It would

919
00:58:19,540 --> 00:58:23,305
have been the eighties. So quick time check because we we

920
00:58:24,005 --> 00:58:26,405
we got off road a bit, which is good. This is what we did. That's

921
00:58:26,405 --> 00:58:29,160
crazy talk. We never do that. Never do

922
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:33,940
that. Who was it? Was it Stu Miniman that said we should

923
00:58:33,940 --> 00:58:37,160
sponsor, like, an off road racing team because we always go off track?

924
00:58:38,005 --> 00:58:41,525
Somebody said that. That'd be kinda cool, actually. Wait. How do you do

925
00:58:41,525 --> 00:58:44,783
that? The, since this is supposed to be a retrospective Yes. Which I think we

926
00:58:44,783 --> 00:58:45,705
did. We've had a

927
00:58:55,775 --> 00:58:58,975
Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna pick a favorite show because that's hard to do. Yeah.

928
00:58:58,975 --> 00:59:02,815
I can do that one. But I will say I don't cringe

929
00:59:02,815 --> 00:59:05,690
every time I hear, digital transformation.

930
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:10,310
Mhmm. And I have, our previous guest,

931
00:59:10,310 --> 00:59:13,125
Jennifer Swanson, to thank for that. Yeah.

932
00:59:13,985 --> 00:59:17,585
It was, I think

933
00:59:17,585 --> 00:59:21,105
about customer success differently after talking to Luke, Luke

934
00:59:21,105 --> 00:59:24,800
Diaz. That was a oh, yeah. Also, I

935
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,480
just keep nodding my head, but all of them have

936
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,295
been really good. All of them are really good. I mean, look, I would. Yeah.

937
00:59:32,295 --> 00:59:35,735
Nike, I don't wanna, like, take one down or whatever, but we've had some great

938
00:59:35,735 --> 00:59:38,855
shows. Even when it's just you and me like this. Like, those are actually among

939
00:59:38,855 --> 00:59:42,370
the most popular ones. And the security guys, you mentioned that one

940
00:59:42,370 --> 00:59:45,890
earlier. My god. That show was bad. That was just fun because we were just

941
00:59:45,890 --> 00:59:49,625
firing off of each other. Right. Right. Right. Right. So much. Get on we gotta

942
00:59:49,625 --> 00:59:52,825
get them back and see if we will let us on their show. And Wayne

943
00:59:52,825 --> 00:59:55,085
and Patrick. Yeah. But,

944
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,160
no. I I mean, 360 shows, 7

945
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:04,000
seasons. Wow. We mentioned George RR Martin, and

946
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,815
I know it's not necessarily his fault that season 8 of Game of Thrones is

947
01:00:07,815 --> 01:00:11,495
awful. But, you know, we we promise we will do a

948
01:00:11,495 --> 01:00:13,355
better job on season 8 than they did.

949
01:00:16,859 --> 01:00:20,700
That's funny. See, I never watched the Game of Thrones nor have

950
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:24,175
I read the books. Okay. I didn't get into it right

951
01:00:24,175 --> 01:00:27,615
away. Yeah. But I started watching around

952
01:00:27,615 --> 01:00:31,290
season 4. And then I caught

953
01:00:31,290 --> 01:00:34,590
up, and there definitely is, like, a a quality shift.

954
01:00:35,290 --> 01:00:38,670
Season 8, especially, because everybody was you could tell everybody was done.

955
01:00:38,890 --> 01:00:42,405
Mhmm. The 2 guys, the showrunners,

956
01:00:43,105 --> 01:00:46,405
had just signed a deal with Lucasfilm to do a Star Wars Oh.

957
01:00:47,905 --> 01:00:51,460
Thing. And I don't wanna speak for

958
01:00:51,460 --> 01:00:54,599
them, but it looks like they were just phoning in the last season.

959
01:00:56,099 --> 01:00:59,855
And I don't know. It was just creative work.

960
01:01:00,395 --> 01:01:04,195
I Yeah. You you gotta be all in. You gotta love it. Especially

961
01:01:04,475 --> 01:01:07,135
Yeah. Something like that where they go to these weird locations.

962
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,080
They write they have to and if you're a showrunner, it's kind of it's a

963
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,680
bit of a thankless job because you're not you're responsible

964
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,184
for getting the show done. You're not really the director, so you're not directing actors.

965
01:01:19,184 --> 01:01:21,484
At least that's my understanding for the most part.

966
01:01:24,420 --> 01:01:28,260
You have to manage all the personalities and stuff like I

967
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:32,020
don't know. It's like Yeah. But you could tell. Like, if you're not all in,

968
01:01:32,020 --> 01:01:34,475
it shows. I think that's a very good way to put it.

969
01:01:35,735 --> 01:01:39,175
Yeah. Well, I I

970
01:01:39,175 --> 01:01:42,619
think, I've said this before. I'll repeat

971
01:01:42,619 --> 01:01:44,640
it. We've got,

972
01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:49,994
a a lot we've had a lot of views. We

973
01:01:49,994 --> 01:01:53,355
recently learned when people started coming to us with

974
01:01:53,355 --> 01:01:57,194
guests, we learned that there's a market out there where if you're

975
01:01:57,194 --> 01:02:00,850
interested in publicizing stuff, you can hire an agency,

976
01:02:00,910 --> 01:02:04,210
and they will line you up with shows. They started

977
01:02:04,590 --> 01:02:08,245
calling us. This has probably been the last 3 seasons maybe. We've

978
01:02:08,245 --> 01:02:11,705
had mostly that, if not more. That's true. And

979
01:02:12,245 --> 01:02:15,960
the, you had a conversation with one of the people from one

980
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,420
of those agencies, like Yeah. I don't know, last year or so. And you

981
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,480
you were kinda asking like It was December because I remember because it was Yeah.

982
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,605
And you were like, why us? 2 well,

983
01:02:27,545 --> 01:02:30,505
I'd like to say I said it a little more. I'm sure you said it

984
01:02:30,505 --> 01:02:33,760
better. But the

985
01:02:34,620 --> 01:02:38,140
so for those that don't know, 2 of my 3 boys have birthdays in December.

986
01:02:38,140 --> 01:02:41,600
So December is basically the the time of madness.

987
01:02:43,665 --> 01:02:47,505
And so she contacts me, like, literally on the eve of

988
01:02:47,505 --> 01:02:51,125
the time of madness. And, you know,

989
01:02:52,359 --> 01:02:56,039
because I had not been responding because, like, the way it goes to my old

990
01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:59,019
email address, which I don't check. I've I've since changed.

991
01:03:01,115 --> 01:03:04,875
And, which reminds me I have a lot of follow-up to do in

992
01:03:04,875 --> 01:03:08,609
my spare time. But you said

993
01:03:08,769 --> 01:03:12,609
I mean, that's part of the reason why, like, you know, we really need a

994
01:03:12,609 --> 01:03:16,295
virtual assistant. Right? I mean, that's kind of like, Yeah. We're getting there.

995
01:03:16,295 --> 01:03:20,055
That's for sure. To that point, which is why we're we love what

996
01:03:20,055 --> 01:03:23,415
we do. We love serving the community, which is why we wanna find ways to

997
01:03:23,415 --> 01:03:27,260
monetize this. Right? And, you know, I spend more at Starbucks every time I

998
01:03:27,260 --> 01:03:31,019
walk in the door, than we would for what we're asking for

999
01:03:31,019 --> 01:03:33,519
the subscription thing. Yeah. But

1000
01:03:35,405 --> 01:03:38,845
the point I was going, she was telling us that

1001
01:03:38,845 --> 01:03:42,685
apparently, on some rating sites, a couple of rating sites, we're, like, in

1002
01:03:42,685 --> 01:03:46,410
the top 2 a half percent, which

1003
01:03:46,410 --> 01:03:50,170
I'm like, what? We both had the same reaction. What? I

1004
01:03:50,170 --> 01:03:53,635
was like, where did you see that? She goes, oh, on the on this rating

1005
01:03:53,635 --> 01:03:57,395
service, you know, the industry uses. I'm like, can you send me a link

1006
01:03:57,395 --> 01:03:58,915
to that? Because I have to see it to

1007
01:04:00,990 --> 01:04:04,830
but turns out 2 a half percent. Yeah. And then when I kinda went through

1008
01:04:04,830 --> 01:04:08,210
the numbers and I kinda went through, like, this, it's like, it's not

1009
01:04:08,515 --> 01:04:12,194
it's not impossible. Right? Because, you know, you I mean, 1, I'm

1010
01:04:12,194 --> 01:04:16,035
very flattered, but 2, I Yeah. I'm I'm I try to be

1011
01:04:16,035 --> 01:04:19,780
humble. But, what's that song? It's hard to be

1012
01:04:19,780 --> 01:04:23,240
humble when you're perfect in every way. That's Matt Davis

1013
01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:27,560
from 19 seventies. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good

1014
01:04:28,305 --> 01:04:32,145
The, no. But when I when I when

1015
01:04:32,145 --> 01:04:35,525
I kind of ran the numbers, like, you know, it's plausible.

1016
01:04:35,820 --> 01:04:39,340
It's believable. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they say it. They have their metrics. I

1017
01:04:39,340 --> 01:04:42,060
was reading through their whole, they have a whole,

1018
01:04:42,860 --> 01:04:46,555
justification, how they rank stuff. And I was like, that is cool.

1019
01:04:46,555 --> 01:04:50,395
That is cool. So we're looking at ways to kind of expand on on on

1020
01:04:50,395 --> 01:04:53,990
that. Right? And grow, like, you know, I wanna be in the top

1021
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:57,830
1%. Like, why not? Right? I mean Heck yeah. Heck. We shouldn't have made

1022
01:04:57,830 --> 01:05:01,589
it this far. Let's let's see how far this thing can

1023
01:05:01,589 --> 01:05:03,974
go. But,

1024
01:05:05,875 --> 01:05:09,414
and and also too, I think something you said early on in this recording

1025
01:05:09,474 --> 01:05:12,549
was this originally was gonna be a video.

1026
01:05:13,009 --> 01:05:16,549
Right? Yeah. This originally was going to be

1027
01:05:19,785 --> 01:05:23,625
a video podcast, but the logistics at the time were a lot harder. The

1028
01:05:23,625 --> 01:05:27,350
technology the ability to live do a live stream for your browser was not

1029
01:05:27,350 --> 01:05:31,190
a thing in 2016, 2017. And we were

1030
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:34,385
really struggling with logistics. And then finally, you said, let's just launch,

1031
01:05:35,345 --> 01:05:39,025
which I think is 1, this one of the smartest things you ever

1032
01:05:39,025 --> 01:05:42,705
said or did. And 2, I think a lesson for life.

1033
01:05:42,705 --> 01:05:46,289
Right? I was being a perfectionist waiting for things to be

1034
01:05:46,289 --> 01:05:49,970
perfect before we did something. Well, I you it

1035
01:05:49,970 --> 01:05:53,455
wasn't without, without merit. It was a good idea. Right. Right. Right.

1036
01:05:53,455 --> 01:05:56,175
And it still is a good idea. I mean, we still chase after. We're still

1037
01:05:56,175 --> 01:05:59,395
doing it now. Sure. And then when we finally,

1038
01:06:00,095 --> 01:06:03,880
you know, I think that I'm glad we

1039
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,260
launched because that's created a certain amount of momentum Sure.

1040
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,680
That if we not done that, we wouldn't I don't know if we ever would've

1041
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,975
launched because we still be working on tweaking up the video. Well and, you know,

1042
01:06:13,975 --> 01:06:17,815
Frank, you had this happen. I've had this happen. If whenever I go

1043
01:06:17,815 --> 01:06:21,579
to an in person event now, inevitably, someone comes up

1044
01:06:21,579 --> 01:06:25,359
and says you know, it shares an opinion about the podcast.

1045
01:06:25,819 --> 01:06:29,575
Almost always, it's positive. But a few times that few times when it

1046
01:06:29,575 --> 01:06:32,855
hasn't been positive, it's been why don't you think about doing this and why don't

1047
01:06:32,855 --> 01:06:36,234
you do it that way? And it gives an opportunity to exchange.

1048
01:06:36,990 --> 01:06:40,670
Most of the time, I I'm able to explain to the person, like,

1049
01:06:40,670 --> 01:06:44,110
yeah, we tried that or we can't or, you know, here's the

1050
01:06:44,110 --> 01:06:47,684
obstacles to that. But I'd say probably slightly

1051
01:06:47,744 --> 01:06:51,265
less than half that time, I come back with an idea and say, hey. This

1052
01:06:51,265 --> 01:06:54,700
person brought this up. It's like, I've been thinking about it. It was like, not

1053
01:06:54,700 --> 01:06:58,299
a bad thought. You know, maybe it's just that bad. We love feedback. We love

1054
01:06:58,299 --> 01:07:02,140
feedback. It's it's never like, somebody said we weren't doing

1055
01:07:02,140 --> 01:07:05,415
things right. And I'm so that's never our

1056
01:07:06,275 --> 01:07:09,575
our reaction is like, yeah. Okay. Cool.

1057
01:07:10,250 --> 01:07:14,090
Anyway, thank you all for, yeah, for hanging in here

1058
01:07:14,090 --> 01:07:17,290
with us. Yes. We're way over time. We just talked about how long shows don't

1059
01:07:17,290 --> 01:07:20,994
do well. Not bad. I am honored,

1060
01:07:22,174 --> 01:07:25,855
to work with you, Frank, on this. And I I think Ditto,

1061
01:07:25,855 --> 01:07:29,559
man. That's all part of the projects that are in

1062
01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:33,319
various states of conceptualization. They're floating around here, but

1063
01:07:33,319 --> 01:07:36,895
I can't think of anybody that I'd rather do this kind of work with.

1064
01:07:37,535 --> 01:07:41,375
And we're very complimentary. Well, thank you, brother. And we

1065
01:07:41,375 --> 01:07:43,635
think differently about stuff,

1066
01:07:44,869 --> 01:07:48,549
and it shows. And it's

1067
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:52,390
it's like, I'm trying to remember the old flywheel

1068
01:07:52,390 --> 01:07:56,075
thing. I think it was from a Collins book about the the flywheel

1069
01:07:56,215 --> 01:07:59,655
concept. Good to great, maybe? Yeah. It was from good to great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1070
01:07:59,655 --> 01:08:03,340
And it's that that just keeps going. And we've now we've got

1071
01:08:03,500 --> 01:08:07,260
we've really got people don't know this. We've got almost 20 years. We're

1072
01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:10,480
coming out it'll be 19 years this fall since we met.

1073
01:08:11,355 --> 01:08:14,955
And we got about 20 years of that. And the the podcast is just one

1074
01:08:14,955 --> 01:08:18,795
of the things. It was November. It was, like, mid November, 1st

1075
01:08:18,795 --> 01:08:22,310
week of November 2005. We met at the

1076
01:08:22,450 --> 01:08:22,950
richmond.netusersgroup.

1077
01:08:27,010 --> 01:08:30,665
I think I think, the amount of coffee and water I drink is really

1078
01:08:30,665 --> 01:08:33,885
gonna be the the limiting factor for how long these shows can be.

1079
01:08:35,305 --> 01:08:38,979
Excellent, Frank. Alright, man. Have a good one. Andy,

1080
01:08:39,220 --> 01:08:42,120
everyone out there, thank you very much, and we look forward to

1081
01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:46,200
serving you with entertaining guests and knowledgeable

1082
01:08:46,895 --> 01:08:50,335
stuff. I need to work on that. That'll

1083
01:08:50,335 --> 01:08:53,680
work. Maybe Chad should be taken. Maybe Bobby Draper can help me with that.

1084
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,000
She could. Could not use. So so creating these

1085
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,760
personas and of fictional characters is actually pretty cool because you could interact with them.

1086
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,925
Like, again, I don't wanna extend the show any longer, but,

1087
01:09:05,484 --> 01:09:09,165
I might I might do a live stream later today. I'm, like, triple booked

1088
01:09:09,165 --> 01:09:12,769
half the day. So Yeah. You've got some really cool

1089
01:09:12,769 --> 01:09:16,289
ones. Your customs Yes. Fees. I've got like, about a half a

1090
01:09:16,289 --> 01:09:20,104
dozen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool, man. We should do a show about

1091
01:09:20,104 --> 01:09:23,465
them. That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. Cool, man. We,

1092
01:09:23,705 --> 01:09:27,165
speaking of Bailey, before I hand it off to Bailey. Bailey is one of them.

1093
01:09:27,859 --> 01:09:31,699
I created a a a custom GPT, so chances are the stuff

1094
01:09:31,699 --> 01:09:35,219
that Bailey is about to say was generated by AI, which is fitting

1095
01:09:35,219 --> 01:09:39,015
because she's AI. So There you go. Think it

1096
01:09:39,015 --> 01:09:42,795
goes full circle. Alright. Thanks, everyone. And, Bailey,

1097
01:09:43,654 --> 01:09:47,370
take us home. And there we have it. Dear listeners, the end

1098
01:09:47,370 --> 01:09:50,969
of our 360 degree expedition. You've been

1099
01:09:50,969 --> 01:09:54,665
riding shotgun with Frank and Andy as they navigated the highways and

1100
01:09:54,665 --> 01:09:58,344
byways of data driven discussions with a generous sprinkle of

1101
01:09:58,344 --> 01:10:02,020
delightful digressions along the way. It's been quite the journey

1102
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,920
a full circle, returning us right back to where we started but

1103
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,715
richer for the experience. We hope you've enjoyed this retrospective

1104
01:10:09,935 --> 01:10:13,775
romp through the past 7 seasons as much as we've enjoyed presenting it

1105
01:10:13,775 --> 01:10:17,570
to you. Perhaps you've laughed, learned something new, or

1106
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:21,170
maybe even both. That's always the goal here at Data

1107
01:10:21,170 --> 01:10:24,985
Driven. Before we sign off, remember to like, subscribe

1108
01:10:25,365 --> 01:10:28,805
and ring that bell or do whatever it is you do to keep this digital

1109
01:10:28,805 --> 01:10:32,490
dialogue alive and kicking. Your engagement keeps the gears

1110
01:10:32,490 --> 01:10:36,090
turning and the data flowing. From the depths of our digital

1111
01:10:36,090 --> 01:10:39,390
hearts, Frank, Andy, and I, your humble,

1112
01:10:39,515 --> 01:10:43,275
semiscient host Bailey. Thank you for joining us. Until

1113
01:10:43,275 --> 01:10:46,955
next time. Keep questioning, keep exploring, and

1114
01:10:46,955 --> 01:10:48,975
above all, stay data driven.