Rebecca Heiss is a PhD in stress and physiology.

Oh, my gosh.

Stress physiology.

This is stressful, isn't it?

Action.

Rebecca Heiss is a PhD in stress physiology.

She's an author and keynote speaker.

And today we're going to hear her story.

What, what is exactly is she speaks on.

I got a chance to meet and see Rebecca speak in at Serious Business and we talked.

She talked a lot about stress, reframing it, different ways to think about stress.

And I'm looking forward to hearing how this all plays in to not only our lives, but also what's happening right now.

Welcome back to the Hairdresser Strong Show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host.

And today I'm with Rebecca Heiss.

How you doing today, Rebecca?

I'm doing great.

Thank you so much for having me on.

Thank you for coming.

I really, really am excited about this conversation.

Me too.

Me too.

Lots to discuss here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so I guess we could just dive right in.

Would you give us like a, like, let the listeners and viewers know, like, what exactly is stress physiology?

Good start.

Yeah.

Most people don't know.

So physiology sort of relates to anything that's going on inside of your body.

Like think about hormones and receptors and all of these weird mechanisms of the body.

But really what I'm interested in is why people behave the way they do as a result of that physiology under stress.

So you probably know what you do when you're under stress.

Some people freeze, some people procrastinate, some people fight, some people run away.

We all have a natural tendency to do those things because it's what our ancestors did to survive.

But we have a choice today to do better.

So I, I work with people to help them work with their stress to begin using it rather than having stress use them.

Nice, Nice.

I love that.

Okay, so, so what my first thought is, like, I keep going back to would.

I don't want to, like, do it for you and take any words.

No, go for it.

Go for it.

Come on.

Well, I was going to say, like, the message that I picked up from your.

From, from the conference at Serious Business and shout out to Serious business, thank you for making this happen.

And so, yeah, so what I picked up was that, like, this idea of stress and how we think about it is, has more to do with or is more important to think about than stress at the end of itself.

Like how we react, how, how we can think about it, how we consider it.

Would you tell us like a little bit about, like, what are we supposed to do with this stress, because, like, you know, if I go on social media and I, like, look at people's comment and read the comments, everybody's like, stressed out, overwhelmed, bur burnout.

And everyone's looking for some time off or looking to relax or find, like, safe mental space.

What do you have to say?

All of which is important, right?

All of which is important.

And what I say is, it doesn't go away, right?

So I think one of the biggest things that my messaging tries to get across to people is a stress is normal and you shouldn't try to get rid of it, right?

The more we actually try to get rid of stress, the more it pushes back and becomes more of a problem for us.

So people who try and get rid of stress actually have worse outcomes as a result.

So instead, we can embrace stress.

We can say, okay, yep, I see you.

This is.

This is part of life.

I don't get to control stress, but I don't have to let it control me.

And that's where we can begin to sort of shift, I don't know, maybe like a little karate shift or judo shift, whatever that is, to begin to use stress as energy.

So when we recognize it's just energy, right?

Like, our body is giving us energy to meet the moment.

Because what our brain is interpreting is, oh, my gosh, there is something that I have to react to.

And so it puts our body on this heightened path, and from there, it's up to us to decide what we want to do with that path.

Like, do we want to use that energy to go to a protest?

We want to use that energy to open a hair salon?

Do we want to use that energy to call all these clients and try and get new?

Do we want to use that energy to sit and go, oh, my gosh, I'm so stressed out, I can't take it anymore?

Right?

Like, so there's all these different pathways that we can point down, but the.

The opportunity to use stress to our advantages is there.

This is so first of all, this.

This whole thought line of thinking for me, I really like this because, like, I, like, I've always felt like I am able to reframe stress and, like, you know, use it to my advantage.

But until I started a business, and then all of a sudden, it was very much kind of like, kind of like, kind of lean into it and, like, understand it and, like, make room for it or something like that.

So then I was like, it's the end of the day.

I'm stressed out.

I need to Relax.

And that turned into me.

My productivity went down, like, so much.

And then at some point I broke out of it, you know?

Yeah, I mean, like.

And listen, I want to, I want to be really clear in that.

Is there a right way to do it?

Well, based on my research, maybe, but with a big asterisk there because people are so individual, right?

And so, like, one of the workplace studies I love to cite, there was a, there was this study done in, gosh, I think it was 2012 maybe.

And they looked at 90 workplace interventions, okay, for stress.

So things like meditation, massage, one to one, coaching, I mean, you name it, they were looking at 90 different interventions and every single one of them had no effect or made stress worse with the exception of one.

Right.

And this is, this is where, this is where I think it's like mind blowing because we, we all, we all seek those things, right?

We're like, okay, I just, I'm gonna go get a massage.

I'm gonna go talk to my coach, my therapist, whatever.

And those are all fine, but they may not be managing stress the way we think they are.

So the one exception was community service.

Full stop.

Especially in your industry.

Think about your work as community service.

Because what most people don't notice under stress is that while we're all familiar with the number one stress hormone, right, cortisol, the number two hormone that's released during stress is oxytocin.

That's the cuddle hormone, the love hormone, the connection hormone.

And so our body is looking for ways to connect with other people.

And when we do that, when we, when we reach out, when we actually help others, when we are stressed, we're helping ourselves.

And so in those moments where you're like, oh my gosh, I am so overwhelmed, I can't even like my, my ask of any of us that are listening is, what's the smallest thing?

The like, don't, don't go grand gesture.

What's the smallest thing that you can do for somebody else right now?

Maybe it's just like texting a friend saying, hey, I'm thinking of you.

Maybe it's buying the person behind you a cup of coffee.

Like, what is that small thing?

And then apply that same small little bit of energy that you get from that nice oxytocin connection to the smallest step forward you can take in your work.

What's the, what's the smallest thing?

Don't you know?

I've got a 20 page paper to write.

Don't sit down to write 20 page paper.

Write one sentence.

Commit to that small thing, because what that does is it sets your brain into the cycle of dopamine hits.

That's like, oh, that felt good.

Well, this feels good too.

Oh, oh, gosh, let's just keep going here.

And you get into this cycle where your productivity goes back up without that massive stress response kicking back in.

That's so fascinating stuff.

So that's fascinating.

So anybody who has been, who knows me and all the people that have been following Hairdresser Strong knows that I think that community is the answer to almost all the problems that we address in the industry.

And so I love that.

Like, that just makes me feel like I'm onto something.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think you're more than onto something.

I think.

Gosh, it's so funny.

The first person that I called just before this interview was my hairdresser because I was stressed about something and I was like, let me do this little thing.

Let me just, let me do this little favor.

And, and it, you know, I don't think, I don't think we give you well enough credit for the amount of stress relief that you provide for, for people.

So maybe that's helpful for your own stress.

Yeah, you know that I appreciate that.

I, I, I will say that, you know, on that topic, it feels like an interest, a good segue into like, so a common thing that is talked about online and on social media and in the comments is that hairdressers take on a lot of stress.

And we're not all the best at standing with people as opposed to like, what we might do more often is standing, stand in their stress with, with them versus, like, standing next to them to support them.

And if that, if I'm saying that.

Right, if I'm making, saying that very well.

Yep, you're saying that very well.

Yeah.

So, so that, that's a big conversation.

And, and so I'd be curious to one hear what you have first starting the, that what you have, what your thoughts are about that.

Like, if there's anybody out there being like, Because I know, for example, for myself, I, I check out when I'm behind the chair.

Like, it's like the one time in my life where I, it's like, it's like the part of my life that I feel like, I know it's like a boundary where I know I don't have to answer my phone because it's like, well, I'm doing hair.

You know, I don't, I don't have to do anything except for take care of my customer.

You Know, see, that's interesting.

I would have said the exact.

I would say you check in.

You actually check in.

In when you're.

When you're doing hair, right?

Like, you are.

You are in the zone.

You're in that flow state.

And.

And that's a really special space to be in.

And it's a very vulnerable spot to be in because you.

You are so connected and so empathetic to the person in the chair that it can be really easy to take, as you said, take on all of that, rather than staying with them by their side, hearing them saying, wow, that must be tough, and not allowing yourself to get dragged into that.

And do you have any.

If some.

Someone is listening or watching that's thinking, oh, my gosh, that's me.

Do you have any advice for any.

Any, like, anything to put in someone's toolkit on how to.

I don't know, not, like, go ahead.

Yeah.

I.

I wish.

I wish I had, like, a better answer to this.

But here's what I'll say.

Maybe a little reframe here is helpful because I genuinely believe that what you're doing is a superpower, right?

You're a super empathizer, and empaths take on the world.

And so recognizing that and just giving yourself the same grace that you would give your client, the same grace that you would give the person that walks through the door.

Give yourself that for a moment.

Just take two minutes after a client leaves and just pick a minute for you and.

And shake that.

Shake that out.

I mean, movement is huge.

So I know you all are on your feet all day, but you're.

You're not necessarily, like, getting a lot of massive steps in.

Like, there's steps in between.

But, like, take a moment and do, like, 10 jumping jacks and just get it out.

Because that acute level of stress, like getting your heart rate up, actually allows your body to come back down fully.

So maybe that moment of grace, getting your heart rate up and then.

Because literally what your brain believes is you're out running the tiger, right?

There's some threat, even if it's somebody else's threat, right, that you've taken on and now you've got to get rid of it.

So, like, get that energy up to allow yourself to fully breathe it out and then carry on.

It's so interesting because it's like, in some ways, it sounds like we have not evolved that much since our.

Our ancestors.

Oh, it's only a few generations.

Like, this is.

This is the crazy thing.

Like, people are like, oh, that was forever ago, my guys, like, I don't know, a couple of generations before your grandparents, you know, this is it.

That's good.

We really.

Yeah, we really aren't that evolved.

And so, you know, there's a reason we love fats and sugar so much.

Like, I know for a fact that you love either French fries, hamburgers, or ice cream.

Like, or all of the above.

Yeah, because they are delicious.

Because that's the human tendency.

Because our brains believe that we can't go down and get 5,000 calories for $5 in under five minutes, even though we can.

Because our brains evolved in that space of, like, oh, my gosh, there's limited calories.

And.

And so, like, really, our brains evolved to eat all the things, move very little.

And so all of these things that, like, don't serve us anymore.

Yeah.

Be scared of people that look different, act different, think different.

I mean, these are all natural.

And the.

The fallacy is natural is always good.

Nope.

Nope.

It just is a product of the environment that we lived in.

And so here we are, and we have a choice now.

And that's the thing that I think is so powerful, is being able to choose.

What mindset do we want?

So you said from the start, and actually, I wanted to come back to this.

You said from the start that, you know, stress and how.

How stress shows up is a choice, and it really is.

We don't get to choose the stressors, they're going to come in.

Right.

Stressors find us.

But then what we do with that stress, that's.

That's really.

That's really the crux of it.

Because if I can cite another study that, like, blew my mind here, right?

This was a study in 2013 that looked at 30,000 people across eight years.

And what they found was that people who believed that stress was bad for them but very high levels of stress and believed that it was bad for them died at a very high mortality rate, 43% higher than controls.

Now, most of us are going, yeah, that makes sense that, you know, stress is bad.

But here's the important piece of the study.

People that had the same level of stress, very high levels of stress, but simply believed that stress wasn't bad for them.

Stress was good or just energy or, you know, it was irrelevant.

They had the lowest mortality rate.

So the difference wasn't the amount of stress in a person's life.

The difference was whether or not they believed stress was good or bad for them.

And that, like, that blows my mind because that shows how much power we have.

Right, yeah, that, that blows my mind too.

And I, I, I will say this.

I would say I believe that to be true.

I know that there are, and, and, and then I would move on with that information.

But I know there are people out there that are going to say, I don't know about that.

So I have to ask, how did this study actually happen in order to find that information out?

Yeah, I'll actually, I'll send you the citation.

So this was a, this is a study done at Harvard across eight years and looking at mortality rates for, I think it was, I think it was only Americans.

So there's a, there's limitations there.

But they literally looked at who was dying and, and they were able to look at overall rates of stress and they had different categories of like high stress, medium stress, low stress, self rated stress, assessed stress.

So it was, it was a really rigorous study and really powerful one because at the end of the day what their data showed was that 182,000 people died prematurely, not from stress, but from the belief that that stress was bad for them.

And that's the kicker.

Right.

We're really dismissive of the placebo effect of like, oh, well, that's just what my brain is telling me.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy, crazy powerful stuff.

And so, and this can be scary.

This can be a stress point for people.

It's like, well, but my brain doesn't believe that yet.

That's okay.

That's all right.

You know, take some time to think about what it is that you actually believe.

What do you believe to be true about yourself?

What do you believe to be true about stress?

What do you believe to be true about any of these things?

And check your stories because they are incredibly powerful in how you show up in the world.

I love that.

I love that.

Okay, so now I think what I want to do is keep this conversation moving.

So, so hairdressers and their stress.

And so now, you know, it's a, you know, you could say it's all over the country, but specifically this is going to time this information.

But like as in by talking about current event, this is no longer like an evergreen conversation.

Sorry, it kind of.

It will be, it will be, it.

Will be, it'll be historic.

Going to be something.

Yeah, there's always going to be something.

Yep.

Okay, so in Washington D.C.

if any of the viewers or audience is not paying attention to what's going on in the world, good for you.

Because it's out here and it's like people are coming into the salon.

We are.

I'm in Washington, D.C.

we.

We talk to the nation, but we commune regularly with local hair folk, mostly hairpreneurs, people who are in business or want to be in business or trying to grow themselves.

And we do meetups.

We do online conversations and stuff.

Well, the stress is real when you have a significant portion of the local employment base losing their jobs.

And it's not just people losing their jobs.

It's also people who had businesses that are no longer getting funded or people who had nonprofits that are now along and getting funded.

And.

And then you have all of their friends and relatives that are also our clients.

And.

And I've been talking to people, and I haven't talked to anybody who said a lot of their clients are losing their jobs.

And so, so far, it's not a significant material.

At least material is the wrong word.

Financial impact.

Yet no one's.

No one's quite seen it.

I've had one or two clients say that they're gonna lose.

They're gonna lose a job.

One was a political appointee, so she knew that she was gonna lose her job, so she wasn't as worried about it, but the other person was.

Anyway, my point is, like, it's not really the people losing their jobs.

It is those people.

And I be.

We're having a talk about how to talk to those people.

But the real is, it's like people are coming in.

They're so stressed out because it's, like, their friends losing the jobs or just, like, everything's kind of being flipped upside down.

And, like, how.

What?

Like, business is not as.

Like, as usual.

It's not business as usual in D.C.

it's not.

And.

And so everyone's very super stressed.

And like we mentioned, we're.

We're kind of in that space with them very close, and people want to kind of, like, get it off their chest.

Some people really want to just, like, escape and not talk about it at all.

Yeah, I bet.

But some people just, like, get into it, and then.

And then, like, the people next sit next to them in the salon are like.

They're like, oh, you know, and then they want to talk about it, and then it turns to this huge conversation, and then you're not sure who around you actually wanted to listen and who wanted to escape.

So, anyway, I'll stop there.

I set the stage.

What do you guys.

What are your thoughts?

What are the first things that come to your mind?

You know, when you first started talking about the situation?

I.

I thought you were going to ask me a different question.

And the question that I thought you were going to ask is like, is this a bad time to be in hair?

Is this a bad time to open a salon?

Is this.

And, and I don't know if that, if that's a helpful question to answer or not, but that's, that's where my head was going.

I, you know, I think, I think we're always going to live in strange times, full stop in dc.

Is it particularly strange right now?

Absolutely.

I am not trying to deny anything that is happening.

And this is, this is kind of evergreen.

There is always going to be political turmoil.

There is always going to be changes happening in the world.

There are always going to be people losing their jobs.

One of the things about the hair industry that I think is special is, is it's relatively recession proof.

People need their haircut.

Yeah.

And, and so with the exception of some clients who literally will not be able to afford it, I suspect that you won't see a huge drastic decrease in any of these, in any of the people that you're serving that said, what they want to talk about, what they need to get off their chest probably will ship.

Right.

And, and I think this is, look, I'm not a hairdresser, but I know the stuff that I lay on my hairdresser and I, I kind of want to go call her right now and be like, I'm so sorry.

Like, I don't.

I hope you're not taking all of this on that I'm, that I'm just layering on top.

I think it's going to be important to be mindful that, that you don't take all of that with you, but that you are an open ear so that you can just, you know, I like to give reflective questions back.

Like, this is what I hear you're saying.

How does that make you feel?

This is what I'm hearing.

Wow, that's gotta be tough.

What?

Like just, just reflecting back to them what they're saying, I think is one of the most powerful things that we can do because it allows people just to feel heard.

There's not going to be a lot of solutions for a lot of the things that are coming down D.C.

right now.

Right.

Like, I mean, what can you as an individual do?

It feels really, we feel very out of control and our stress response to that is, oh my gosh, how do I get control?

How do I get control?

How do I get.

We don't need that calm in that.

What we need is a Direction to point ourselves.

And so I would say first, what's happening is they're using you for this three minutes of screaming terror.

Yeah.

Just allowing people to have those three minutes of just freaking out and hearing them and providing that safe space is such an undervalued service that you're doing.

The second piece there that I would encourage people to do is help them redirect that energy and say, okay, what small step can we do together that would make you feel better?

What small step can you do that is going to give you back some of that power and control that you're so desperate for?

What is the smallest thing that you can do with all of this energy that's not just screaming in my chair?

And you know, that, of course, is going to have to use.

Be used with discretion.

You probably don't want to ask anybody, like, hey, what are you going to do about it?

But I think people are looking to you for that guidance.

So I'd say use.

Have them.

Have them redirect some of that energy.

That's a powerful space to be in.

That's so.

That's my pup.

So anyway, so I think that I love that because I.

I mean, I love this reframe kind of this, this whole reframe thing, because I don't know if it.

It connects.

And I'm curious of what you say, but, like, there's a.

An adage of.

For investing, it's like, be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.

And so when I learned that, I'm like, oh, I can do that.

Like, I can't get ahead because, like, I didn't, you know, I didn't have any money, you know, so, like, growing up, being young and like, just, you know, being scrappy, shampooing hair and, like, really not making a lot of money, but I had like a hundred bucks, and it's like.

But I didn't want to put that 100 bucks buy anything with that hundred dollars because I couldn't get ahead during good times.

But if.

When I found out that when everybody's freaking out and the markets are crashing, I should put that money in and I'll get outsized returns.

And so I kind of feel like it's a little bit like that kind of vibe, but not, obviously not investing.

And with stress energy.

Yeah, you're investing your stress energy.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's a great analogy.

Yeah, for sure.

Nobody's freaking out.

Good.

Go do the thing.

Invest in that.

So then that.

Then to your.

The question that you you were thinking.

I was going to ask, like, if someone's saying, and I'm not expecting to get to take this as business or financial advice.

Uh, but in your.

How would you respond to.

How would you respond to someone who was like, should I.

I have an opportunity to open up a small business right now, but I'm a little worried because it looks like the local economy is going to tank and it might not come back for a while.

Yep.

With.

With the full disclosure that you just gave me of.

I'm not a financial planner.

I'm not a business.

Well, I am a business person, but.

But not in your industry.

There's never a good time.

And if there is a good time, it's probably when there's a lot of disruption going on.

And so now maybe a great opportunity when everybody's doing this, to slide into a really great location, to slide into a space that might not be available when the markets are up to.

To get some.

To steal some competitors.

Opportunities because they're distracted by all of this.

Right.

So it's a.

I'm.

I'm a go person.

I say, like, yeah, invest now.

Why not?

Because.

Because.

All right, this is, this is my, My.

One of my big takeaways is that fear is always going to hold you back.

Fear is going to be the thing that says anything but anything but failure, anything but not being able to repay back my loan, anything but blah, blah, blah, blah.

But fear doesn't point you toward anything.

And in this moment, having a direction, being able to point towards something and work towards something, that allows you to take all of that stress, energy and really, like, drive, really go somewhere.

So I think it's a great time.

Yeah, I.

I like that.

I like that.

I think, I think this idea about stress and trying to reframe it and identify how you can leverage at least.

At least some amount of the stress into some sort of positive vibe is so good.

Okay, so a big topic that we talk about here at Hairdresser Strong is that we work a lot with the young people that.

Young people, people that are in cosmetology school that are training to become stylists, like rising stylists, new talent.

And we focus on what they're going through, what their challenges are, trying to find solutions.

And when I talk to them, they're very much looking at, like, they're stressed out about wanting to work, you know, for somebody or working full time or like, they're stressed out about that they don't want to find the wrong place.

And then, so what it leads to.

Is like, a lot of times, most students, like, I'm like 80% or more when I go and visit the schools, have never looked and see.

Even look to see what salons or shops they want to work in.

But 80% say they want to work in a salon or shop after school.

So when I asked them why, they're saying, well, I'm just going to focus on my school.

And the only challenge with that, in my opinion, is that I think that that is deflection.

I think that it's kind of an overwhelm thing, because I asked one.

I got.

I got a really good answer from a student who said, you know, you're.

You come into the school, you know, and it's like, you got to remember, like, who we.

What's going on with us.

So, like, I'm sitting at home on my phone, googling all this information about my career path.

I'm creating this plan, and I'm, like, finding my job and that I can make money at while I'm in school because I can't make.

I can't work at this job because I can't make this much money.

So they figure out this puzzle, this algorithm of their life, and then they go, press go.

And then I walk through the door, and I'm like, hey, just joking.

Y'all are gonna have to do some additional training if you want to work at a salon that charges enough money for you to earn median income in any metropolitan area.

Now, if you live in a smaller town, maybe that doesn't apply, but I know in D.C.

nobody will.

Nobody will put you on the floor without six.

Maybe there's one or two salons that might do three months of training, but most are like six to 12 months of training.

And.

And they don't really, really like that.

And so, yeah, so I say, but you can get a jump start on it if you start working.

If you go and find a salon now and then you can get working and you can speed your space up.

And then this young woman tells me that.

She's like, you know, you come in through the door after I got all my ducks in a row and all my balls up in the air, and I'm juggling them, and you're like, oh, guess what?

You need to do more.

And I'm like, wait until I'm out of school, because, like, that's too stressful.

I need my work life balance.

Oh, to me, that word so much.

Okay, first of all, can we just talk about work life balance?

If I could just Write like any word or combination of words.

It might be work, life balance.

Like, what the heck is work if it's not part of life?

Like, this is, this is one of the things.

Like, I'm sorry.

Like, this is show up.

You show up as you, no matter where you are, whether it work, whether life.

Life is life.

Okay, so we're throwing out the door.

Here's the other thing.

I honestly think your deflection, I think you're right.

I think, look, everybody's juggling a lot of things.

And the challenges, when somebody challenges your trajectory, it's like, oh, well, this, I had all my ducks in a row.

Like, I have it figured out.

And they're like, oh, just joking.

Here, try this.

And disruption is going to continue to change.

It just feels new.

And so you're going, ah, this is scary.

I don't want to do it.

Because anything new, anything that we don't plan for is first scary.

And so my, my advice to anybody that finds themselves in this position is to do a little fear setting exercise where you write down all of the things that could go wrong, right?

Oh, I will screw up my work, life, balance, whatever that is, Right.

I'm going to do this and this is going to fall through and that's not going to work.

And good, write that all down.

And then I need you to move over to the next column and write all of the costs of the inaction, all of the things that you are going to miss out on because you don't do that thing.

That's so good.

Right?

And then I want you to go to a third column and I want you to assume all of the things go wrong that you predicted were going to go wrong.

Then once you write down how you can repair them.

So, like, this is, this is.

People like to plan.

We like to feel like we're in control of our life even when we're not.

So this is a nice little planning tool to help you see, first of all, there's costs that we don't think about, like the cost of our inaction.

So it forces you to think about that, and then it forces you to think about, well, just how bad are these costs of my action?

Like if I do fail, if it, if it does, if I do drop some balls, how can I repair them?

What does that look like?

And so we put a plan in place that makes it that much easier to slide that extra thing in so that we don't have massive levels of regret six months later.

Oh, that is so, so good.

Oh, my gosh Good, good.

I feel like that's.

I mean, I feel like that's a great place to, like, start trying to wrap it up.

Like, that was, like, so good dropping those mics.

Yeah, thanks.

Absolutely.

And so not only a bunch of, like, beautiful, like, nuggets of.

Of gold, but also an exercise.

I mean, what else could we ask for?

I mean, go do it.

Go do it.

For sure.

It's.

That has been something that has really, really helped me as I struggle with decisions or, you know, the cost of inaction is always more powerful than we give ourselves credit for.

I'm.

I'm actually going to a meeting after this, and we are whiteboarding out and we're pitching somebody to come on board with hairdresser strong and he has another opportunity.

And so, like, we're trying to figure out if we can figure out how to make it all work.

And that is an incredible exercise to like.

I love that.

That's perfect.

Yeah, yeah.

Here's the other exercise I'll give you really quick.

Really quick, because I think this is actually really applicable the year to your whole industry.

People talk about five out of five star experiences, right?

Like, you get Google reviews.

Five out of five stars.

Great.

What does that mean?

What that means is the customer came in, they got what they expected, they left, nothing more.

Five stars.

So my challenge to you is, what does a 7 out of 5 star experience look like?

Because the question that we ask is, should not be.

It should not be.

How can we make this a little bit better?

The question that we need to be asking is, how do I get you to talk about it?

How do I get you to tell all of your friends about this experience?

And that kind of like, that kind of thinking that out of the box, like, who's going to?

Who's going to.

How will this video go viral?

Right?

That's.

That's really what you're asking.

And.

And it's about getting inside of people's heads to say, when you go see your friends and they're like, oh, I love your haircut.

How was the salon?

You don't just say, yeah, it was fine.

It was good.

You say, oh, my gosh, wait till I tell you this story about what happened.

That's pretty powerful stuff.

And you know what that is so relevant to right now?

Because people are so much looking for experiences.

And so not only can you, like, please take care of your customers, but you can also level yourself up with that type of thinking.

So that was awesome.

Okay, thanks.

You're awesome.

This is such a Pleasure.

I.

Do you have any last minute pieces of some anything to say or any advice that you might want to give before we sign off?

Man, just thank you so much.

If, if you feel so inclined, I would love to like pitch my book at you that is coming this fall.

Springboard.

If you want some more insides and insights and tips, I'd love for you to pre order a copy or reach out to me if you have any further questions or comments.

I'd be happy to talk with you.

Yeah.

And thank you all for, for all of the incredible work that you do.

I think the world owes you a bow of gratitude.

So thank you.

Thank you.

I, you know, with the last couple minutes left, would you want to tell I.

So Kat from Boulevard bought me that book at Serious Business and I haven't had a chance to read it and I've been want, I've been wanting to open up and I'm, and it's lent, so I'm, I'm canceling TV during the week so I can read at night and that's on my list.

Would you give us a little like maybe a little bit more of a kind of overview of what, what the, what's going on with the book?

It's my life's work.

I mean it literally.

It is my life's work.

So it is.

Springboard is all about how do we use our stress.

So it's a lot of what we've talked about today and it's interspersed with my personal stories and just, just powerful ways to, to utilize your stress as a springboard to perform better and, and help yourself and others around you.

That's the pitch.

What it is.

I can't wait.

I can't wait.

Well, thank you so much.

It was such a pleasure and I look forward to following you and everybody.

How can people find you?

You can come to my website, rebeccaheist.com or find me on Instagram Dr.

Rebecca Heist or just reach out to me by email.

It's really easy.

Rebeccaebeccaheist.com so I'm very findable.

Awesome.

And we'll include all of that in the description below.

If you want to check her out.

Go for it.

Rebecca, you're awesome.

Thank you so much and I hope you have a wonderful day.

It's been a pleasure.

Appreciate.