Know, this.

This is what I wanted to do, you know, before producing was fashionable.

You know, everybody's a producer.

Like, I knew that That's.

That was my.

My thing.

I loved sound.

I loved creating sound.

I mean, one of the things, too, is that my dad was also a musician, right.

So, you know, I'd sit in the corner and hear the stories that, you know, the tr.

He's traveled, he's recorded for Decca.

And, you know, all his friends would come over and they talk about the old days when they play and they travel and, you know.

Yeah.

And.

And that was very intriguing to me.

And then they'll talk about the records, the records that shaped their trajectory, the record that made them, you know, want to play music.

So then I'd listen to those records because my dad held those records.

Right.

And to compound that even more is that my dad had a.

He had.

He had the only music store on the island.

Oh, wow.

So I'm surrounded with everything.

Guitars, bass, pianos, drums, everything.

Yeah.

And what will happen is a lot of times, musicians who.

Who.

From.

Who have, you know, Grenadian roots would travel all around the world.

And they.

They'd all know my dad.

So when they visit their parents or their brothers and sisters, they would come into the store.

Because you're a musician, you want to, you know, go to the music store.

And my dad would see them and he said, okay, jam session.

He'd call up his friends, he goes, listen, I'm closing the shop.

We're having a jam session.

And he'd bring out.

And then like, all the traffic and cars, and we'd have these jam sessions.

Wow.

You know, from even, like the tourist ships that would come in, and the musicians would come off the tourist ships and look for the music store.

Right.

And here we go, we have a jam session again.

So my dad would always, you know, so music was his.

Was his thing.

You know what I mean?

So.

So I was a.

I was also a piano repair.

I.

I can repair pianos.

I can tune pianos.

I just had to do that.

I was, you know, my dad was pretty adamant that I.

I learned.

So I repair basses, drums, like, anything.

Yeah.

You know, we sold it broke, had to repair it.

Right, right.

You know what I mean?

I mean, we.

We repaired pipe organs, electric organs, anything on the island.

So we had all of those things, and my dad had a.

And I actually started playing organ.

And my dad had a.

A Hammond B3 with three Leslies.

Right.

That's that speaker we were talking about.

It spins.

So that's kind of really what I cut my teeth on.

Favorite instrument.

Wow.

Oh, yes.

But yeah, I sort of migrated to piano after that.

But I mean, I still play.

I have.

I have a Leslie and an organ in my house.

So can I ask, what do you mean by three Leslie's?

Three Leslie.

Like, how do you position them?

Well, he had them.

One, two, three.

Organ is here.

Three Leslie's.

Can I ask a silly question?

Because I don't.

I don't know.

But why would you need three?

Just out of curiosity.

Just more volume.

Okay.

Power.

Power.

Okay.

You also get a weird stereo.

So a Leslie speaker is a speaker that spins at different speeds and it gives you kind of like a effect.

And if you have multiples to your left and to your right, then you get this sort of shaky feeling from her.

That's really cool.

I've never heard of that.

That's a brilliant idea.

And the reason, and actually that, the reason for that is.

And he was the agent for Hammond as well too.

So all these like, all the export.

All those guys, the agents would come to the island, they'd travel to the island just to meet the sales person.

Music store.

Right.

But what happened is there was a guy from Yugoslavia who was an organ player on one of the ships and he was.

Finished his tour of duty.

Yeah, yeah, tour of duty.

And he wanted to sell the organ.

So he had really.

He was on a ship.

And the reason that he had three Leslie's is because he was pushed, positioning them, you know, in different spots.

In different spots.

Right, right.

And you know, it was a thing that my.

He wanted to sell it and my dad said definitely, yeah.

So he was on a ship, so he just sold it and he just moved it off the ship.

My dad didn't have to.

He didn't have to order it.

He didn't have to pay freight and duty and everything like that.

Probably got a good price too, right?

He got it at a good price.

The guy wanted to just got.

Get rid of it.

Yeah.

Because I guess when he goes back to Yugoslavia it's like, well, what am I going to do with three Leslie?

Right.

They're big too.

They're like.

They're bigger than.

They're like two, three mini fridges.

We see them at churches all the time.

Oh, yeah.

I was telling Matt yesterday specifically, like I would marvel at the one I would see at Rochester.

It would.

Had a big organ in this big giant Leslie.

I never knew what it was until like yesterday.

Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

And you know, all those, the, the, the Switches.

And, you know, you switch them on.

So I.

I mean, there was, you know, several organists would come and play that thing and it just be wiling out, man.

That was so loud, you know, and they.

They'd get off the.

The.

The organ and I'd get on and I, you know, as a kid, just try to.

To mimic them, you know.

And then there.

There was a family, actually a Canadian family, who saw me as a kid, and they.

They, you know, they.

They thought I was.

I had a little potential.

So they were snowbirds.

And one year they came back and they brought a stack of Jimmy Smith, who is.

I don't know if you guys know who Jimmy Smith is.

Jimmy Smith is the ultimate organ jazz organ player that, like, you know, you look in.

In the, you know, in the encyclopedia on the organ player and Jimmy Smith is it.

Everybody followed Jimmy Smith.

He was like the George Benson of guitar.

Like Jimmy Smith with you.

So they brought me all these Jimmy Smith albums, man, and it was.

It was crazy.

So I listened to the record and, you know, you hear the walking bass, like for the jazz organs.

You hear all these guys walking bass.

They're bass pedals.

So I thought that they use their feet.

So I'm using both my feet walking, but they use the left hand.

You know what I mean?

I listen to the record.

So what were you doing with your left hand at that time?

I was just playing chords with my left hand.

I just didn't.

You were adding something extra.

Yeah, I just didn't.

I.

It just didn't make sense to me as a kid.

Yeah.

Trying to.

I listened to it and I'm like, okay.

Because what was happening too is that they were playing with a band.

Right, Right.

So you're hearing guitar, bass.

Right.

Drums, organ.

Yeah, Right.

Little bass player is black playing bass.

But I'm assuming that, you know, he's playing bass with his feet because there's the bass clap.

Yeah.

So I did that until an organ player came over, came and saw me and was freaking out and was like, this kid is like, what is he doing playing?

You're walking bass with his feet.

And I'm like, yeah, it's not what you guys do.

He goes, no, we just play with.

That's when I figured it out.

Wow.

You know, so, you know, sometimes what you don't know and you try, you just come up with.

That reminds me of Jimi Hendrix.

A lot of his style had to do with listening to Les Paul recordings, not understanding that Les Paul, who technically invented multi tracking, was actually.

Was multiple Takes of Les Paul at the same time.

And Jimi Hendrix was like, this is one guy.

And he's just kind of learned.

That's kind of how shredding was invented.

It's funny how technology can do that.

Yeah.

It's actually the same thing with Oscar Peterson.

Yeah, right.

Oscar Peterson.

That kid gave him a record.

Yeah.

And it was a piano player by the name of Art Tatum.

Art Tatum is almost blind, but when you hear Art Tatum play, you think it's two people.

Like this one guy just can't do this.

So Oscar Peterson's dad worked on the railway.

So he gave him the record, went away for a week and came back and, you know, said, you know, do you listen to that thing?

He goes, yeah, it's two piano players.

Like, what do you want me to do?

Two piano players?

And he's dad said, no, no, no.

That's one guy.

And I was going to say, there's no way.

And I was.

I mean, he always told the story.

He said he didn't play the piano for about a week because it's like, there's no way I could be this guy.

Wow.

So the reason that he's so amazing is because he listened to Art Tatum and tried to copy Art Tatum.

So when Oscar plays like, it's like two people.

Yeah, yeah.

So anyway, I think that was one of the things that happened to me with my bass pedals.

That's incredible.

You still do stuff like that or you started playing with your left hand?

I started playing my left hand.

Wow.

If we go back to when you were a child, do you remember some of the music that kind of shaped your love and led you down the path towards producing and ultimately picking?

Besides Jimmy Smith, obviously.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

There's some albums that are paradigm shifting moments in my life.

One of them is a flautist by the name of Hubert Laws.

Okay.

Not quite sure if you guys know, but Hubert Law is the most amazing flist.

Wow.

And he has a record called Romeo and Juliet.

And he was the first guy I heard do circular breathing.

I don't know if you've heard of circular.

Right.

So he does circular breathing.

Like, it's like.

To those of you that don't know.

Can I explain what it is?

So it's.

You fill up your cheeks with air and then you exhale, and then you fill up your cheeks as well.

And you keep exhaling the air in your cheeks while you inhale from your nose.

So basically, you can play a note continuously without ever taking a breath.

Wow.

I had no Idea.

So just think of a person who's playing a flute and it just.

It goes.

You.

No breath.

He's just playing.

Yeah, Just continuous.

He plays on a flute.

I never heard of that.

Working on a flute.

Flutes take a lot of air.

That's amazing.

A lot of air.

And this guy does this on a dime.

And every flute player is.

He's sort of, again, the.

George Benson.

If you're playing flute and Hubert Laws walks in the room, you stop.

Where's Hubert from?

He's from the United.

United States.

Okay.

Okay.

Right.

Wow.

And like, I mean, he's a.

He's one of those guys who is a classical player.

He plays with orchestras and he also is a jazz player.

So he plays.

You know, it's like there are fair few people who could do that, like Wynton Marcellus.

Is that true?

He.

He's.

That, you know, Oscar Peterson's.

That they can do both of them really well.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah.

Hubert Lars is Romeo and Juliet.

That.

That record was like a staple for me.

George Benson Breezing.

That was another record that was.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Oscar Peterson has this album called We Take Requests.

Just amazing record that this was.

You know, Bob James had a record called Head, and that was.

That was amazing.

A lot of Bob James albums, those were.

Anyway, those are the ones that really shaped me.

And there's.

There's one from a.

A gentleman who really pushed the envelope on calypso jazz, a guy called Clive.

Clive Xander.

Okay, Right.

So he.

He created a whole.

So because I'm from the Caribbean, I gravitate to Caribbean jazz or calypso jazz.

So some of those things I put on my cd.

So, yeah, Clive Zander was very instrumental.

Clive.

And another guy by the name of Raph Robinson who was very instrumental in my understanding of the whole calypso jazz works.

And also Clive has a son who is a piano player as well, too.

And for years he was the piano player for Adele.

So if you see Adele, you see the piano player.

That was my.

You know, he's.

Yeah.

Not Clive, but Raph Robinson.

Okay.

His son.

His name is Miles Robinson.

Gotcha.

Okay.

So, yeah, so you look at the Grammys, you look at all those things.

Yeah, he's all over the place.

Yeah, he's also.

So, you know, again, he sort of grew up around me and Raf and.

Yeah.

I want to know, how did you kind of transition from being the organ as your first instrument, your first love, to piano?

What was the process?

I think one of the things is that there's you know, when you travel, you go to somebody's home or you hang out at a bar, there's not an organ, there's no organ there.

So.

Right.

And playing an organ is totally, it's a different approach and a different technique.

Right.

Playing organ and like organ players are not great piano players.

And, and some piano players are not great organ players.

Right.

You got to be playing the both of them to really switch your, your technique.

You know what I mean?

Right.

So.

Because with an organ there, there's no sustain.

You have to hold your keys down before you let go.

The other ones, where a piano player can just play staccato and it, it works.

Right.

You know what I mean?

So I, I, you know, I'd go to somebody's home and I've struggled to play the piano because there's no bass pedals.

I can't, I can't.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So playing a piano.

No, I'm, I have to play, I have to play bass, play the chords and play the melody at the same time.

Right.

So I had a.

Figure that out because I was struggling, you know, just trying, trying to kind of transition.

So I, I just decided I gotta, I gotta try this because I, I sound terrible playing the piano.

Just determination.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just determination.

And I, and I love, I liked a lot of piano players, you know what I mean?

And, and I just started kind of trying to, to play, you know, play piano and play solo piano.

That's a really challenging to.

Thing to do, you know what I mean?

For example, sitting on a P an hour, just solo piano.

Yeah, right.

And, and not have it be just ballads, you know, I can, you know what I mean?

Because sometimes you could play solo piano, but you, you can't play anything really fast and make it sound great.

So there's a thing called stride piano.

I'm not quite sure if.

Do you know what, that you want.

To explain it to the audience or.

In my.

Yeah, Stripe piano is where your left hand is playing the bass.

Yeah.

So you play the bass and then you, you, you quickly move your hands up and play the chord.

So you're going.

And then your hands playing the melody.

So that is really challenging.

Sounds challenging, right?

It's very challenging to do because what you're doing is you're playing, you're being the whole band.

You know, you're having a rhythm going, which is sort of the drums, and then you have bass and chords, and then you're playing the melody and soloing on top of that.

So.

And then it's a bit of a dying art right now.

Have you tried doing that with also pedals?

Yeah.

No, I've never tried.

Break some record now that you're in quarantine.

Yeah, I know there's a couple of people who've done that.

You know where they put the piano and they have a small bass unit and they'll play the bass.

Wow.

Yeah, wow.

Like, I mean, I've.

I've kind of worked hard on sort of stride piano.

Yeah.

So.

So, you know, I like that.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I guess how did you end up coming, moving to Canada?

Well, I'll just preface it that my dad had the music store, and he was really keen on me taking over the music store and running the music store.

But I think I hung around with way too much of his friends and listened to all those crazy musician stories, and I didn't want to have anything to do with the business.

I didn't want to repair any pianos.

I didn't want to.

You know what I mean?

I just.

Nah.

I wanted to be a musician.

I wanted to travel.

I wanted to hang out.

I want to have musician stories, and I love it.

You know what I mean?

So my mom, who immigrated to Canada because of my sister.

My sister suffered from a disease called sickle cell anemia, and so she came to Canada for treatment, and my mom sort of moved here.

You know, they.

They decided that my sister will come in and study, I mean, and, you know, live and get treatment.

Yeah.

And my mom was here, and eventually my dad and my mom separated because, you know, that became an issue, and my mom asked if I wanted to come to Canada, and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

What made you want to come?

So I just wanted to come.

I wanted to get out.

I mean, I'm living in a.

On an island with 100,000 people, and I'm playing at the hotels, and I want to see George Benson.

I want to see.

Yeah, right.

You know, I'm.

I'm.

I'm a musician, man.

Yeah.

And I want to see Oscar Peterson, and I just want to travel, you know, I want to go on the road.

Yeah.

You know, you hear musicians talk about road.

I'm like, I want to go on the road, man.

So when she said that, when she offered, I was like, I.

I want to go.

My dad was not happy, my friend.

Oh, man.

Because he didn't have anyone to help him with the business anymore.

Yeah, he was not happy.

Yeah, he was not happy.

He was very unhappy that I was leaving.

But As a kid, you really don't care.

Yeah.

Opportunity, right?

Yeah, it's an opportunity, man.

I'm.

I'm coming.

I want to get out of here.

I want to.

I want to.

I want to.

I want to experience the world.

Wow.

So my mom swansea me and actually my brother as well, and we immigrated to Canada.

And I mean, I remember landing and calling my friend the very next day, and I'm like, I have enough money.

I want to buy a roads.

He took me to Long McQuid, and the roads were way too expensive.

I couldn't afford it.

Then we started looking in the papers and found.

Well, I found one and I called him up.

I found one because he wasn't moving fast enough for me.

And I found it and he.

We went to look at it, and the roads was so raggedy.

I would want you to buy it anyway, but the rose was so raggedy.

He says, no, no, but you knew.

How to fix it.

Yeah, I knew how to fix it, but he didn't allow me to buy it.

And then we found one that was really good, and I bought it.

And then I went and bought a synthesizer.

And what did you get?

I got a poly six called Poly six.

Okay.

I mean, I had a lot of synthesis.

I had the Oberheim, I had the COG.

Poly 6.

What else did I have?

Yeah.