So what's going on?

What's up, everyone?

I'm Derek.

I'm Matt.

And I'm Dave.

And Dave is back.

Hey, Dave is back. He's gonna be a more permanent structure, I think on the podcast we're trying.

To make him a regular.

I did get a stamp of approval. Yes. So obviously where it gets complicated is Wednesday nights are young adult nights, but we usually want people there by six. So as long as we're done and I can get back, then she says she's okay.

Our goal is to be done by 5:30.

Well, regardless, because I also have youth on. Well, 6:30. But oftentimes we want to be done because during parts of the year we have family night, which starts at 5:30. So we're trying to get done so that I can be at the door and greeting people.

That makes sense.

So we might even be able to shift things to like a 3:45. Not that any of you guys care anyway. None of you know what we're talking.

It's fine.

So today we are going to. Since it's Christmas Eve.

It is Christmas Eve. As we are recording right now. Merry Christmas.

When you guys are listening.

How was your Christmas last week? Was it great?

So I should say I'm hoping so.

Hey, Happy New Year's.

That's right.

Oh, yeah. Happy, happy year to come.

Happy year to come. And I'm sure we'll talk about all that New Year's y stuff next week maybe. So we're gonna do talking points.

Oh, funny. Funny happenstance though. So my dad back in this would be. I was born in 1983, so that'd be probably like 1985. 1986, for about four or five years, actually had the Dave Racer show. And it was a. It was a publicly televised radio show. He had, I think for six or seven years.

Nice.

Don't do that.

Sorry.

Seriously. Come on. I thought I could get away with it. No one here. No one here.

Gosh. I was doing that. We went to urban to Victoria park to see the Christmas lights.

No, I have not, actually.

Okay. If you want to go through fast, you'll be very frustrated. You go about three miles an hour the entire time through the community. But it's a lot of beautiful setup. But of course, a lot of the kids like to hang out of the car to look at the lights or they come up through the skylight. So they would shout Merry Christmas. And I would shout out my window. Six, seven, just. And I would watch the parents reaction. So it's fun to just Plant seeds and drive.

I'd be that dad that's walking down the street, perfectly calm, look like he's a healthy, mentally healthy human being. That if somebody said that, I'd be like, it's the thing that set him off this year.

But there was a genius once. Somebody set up a hot cocoa stand. It was charging $2 a cup for hot cocoa, and it was like, this is absolutely brilliant because you're moving slow, so you're just staring at it. And then, of course, everybody's scrambling for money.

I actually have been. It's weird. There's a phenomenon that I've experienced in just the past year where more people are using cash for things. Because, like, up until that, for some reason, especially Covid. In Covid. And for a while, everything was cashless, cashless, cashless. Everywhere I went, it felt like was useless to have cash, so I stopped carrying it. And then within the past year, there's so many times where I wish I had cash on me, and I'm like, what is going on? Like, I'm so confused and upside down on this.

Well, people want cash again, right?

They do, I think so.

I think we're starting to buck the system a little bit.

There's still a few places that won't accept cash. I actually. That drives me nice. I went to. Oh, it was a baseball game. I went to the mighty muscles game, and I brought, like, I had, like, a hundred bucks in cash, and so I handed. They're like, we don't do that. It's card only. Like, that's bogus, man. I had a Moose $100 bill.

Is. Is anyways.

Probably because they didn't want to have to take the time to count change.

And you can tell this isn't a Christmas episode.

No, absolutely not.

Merry Christmas.

That's right.

He's wearing his festive shirt, though.

If you can see.

I don't know if you can see. Yep, I do like this really great, annoyingly loud Christmas.

What's, like, the one thing Christmasy. What's the one thing that, like, it's not Christmas unless X happens in your family.

Eggnog for me?

No.

So what's the. It's not Christmas. This. This. That's a good question.

I'll give you an example. So when I was three, my parents. My parents started a tradition of doing a meat fondue dinner, right? So basically, you put oil in a pot, and then you have to do literally one tiny chunk of meat at a time. And it takes kind of like the melting pot. If you Guys have ever similar. Okay, so similar concepts. What are you doing? He's trying to say, like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. He's trying to push us.

No, I'm not trying to push.

Are you showing them the card first?

That's right. But anyway, so, yeah. So what it does, though, is that, of course, you know, every so often you have like, an oil splash you. Right. Because it gets hot. So of course people keep their phones away, which is great. And then it takes so long to cook the food that it causes you to sit around and talk for like three, three or four hours. Like, it's. It's pretty great. So that's. That's kind of been like. And then my parents are getting older this year, so now there's the question of, is it time to retire this tradition? And in my head, I'm like, no, this is like my favorite part. It's like. But I can't be selfish because I live here and they live there, and I can't go prep everything. I can't go a week ahead as I'm in prep stuff.

Okay. So for my wife, I'd say it's not Christmas unless she has a real Christmas tree. Actually, to the point where she has told me. She has told me that we can only have a real Christmas tree. I'm not allowed to buy an artificial Christmas tree. Even if she dies. I'm not kidding.

I told my wife.

She told me that I am supposed to continue this or she will come back and haunt me or something.

You put up the fake Christmas tree just keeps falling over at night for no reason.

Why is this happening? So, yeah. No. So for her, it's got to be a real Christmas tree, and she's got to make it look like Christmas. Throw up all over my house.

Sure.

Only on the inside, though. That's Amelia the point. But, um, for me, honestly, it's probably. I have to watch. Every year, I have to watch a Christmas vacation that is like my favorite go to of every movie.

I.

And I love watching so many movies, including the Grinch with Jim Carrey. I can quote it line for line. And when I watch it and listen to it and quote it, I also start getting into a Grinchy voice, which is crazy.

You can't.

That is not my grinchy voice. But that. I get it. But like, Christmas vacation for me. And we've made it to where when everything's done on Christmas Eve, I'm going to be watching it tonight, Christmas Eve, get the kids in bed and I watch Christmas vacation. And so that. And sometimes that means we're wrapping presents too. But, like, yes.

Yep. I did have a. I did have a realization recently. My daughter and I are not obsessed. We are into Stranger Things. Right. And I've discovered Vecna is Jim Carrey, the Grinch, but just dead because he's. He looks like the Grinch and he's constantly searching for Max, so.

Oh, my gosh. That's hilarious.

Wow.

That's an interesting hot take. No. And then also, also, I think the ultimate thing that makes it feel like Christmas season is like crippling debt. Right.

Crippling debt.

Crippling.

We'll worry about finances next year. Let's just blow our money. Yep.

That's next year. Matt's problem.

How about you? What's your.

It can't be Christmas without Dutch oven pancakes on Christmas.

Dutch oven pancakes? Yeah.

Dutch oven pancakes?

Yeah. Lizzie makes Dutch oven pancakes. It's literally our only tradition. We have zero other Trisha's, like, throughout the whole year. It's.

It. That's.

That's our.

So obviously. I know. But for other people. What is a Dutch oven pancake?

It's a.

Well, it's kind of like.

It's kind of like a pancake, but I don't know, it's fluffier and I don't know, more eggy. I don't know how to explain that.

Fluffy eggy pancakes. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's not a pancake. It's like a cake.

Mm.

It's like a. I don't know, like an 8 inch, 9 inch cake.

Okay. And it's one.

It's like this thick. Right. But it's got all the same kinds of stuff as pancake does.

Okay. And it's more dense. My wife makes a cookie bar. So basically it's a pan full of cookie. And the cookie's, you know, an inch and a half thick.

We need the like traits. See, like, she makes cookie bar. We'll make Dutch oven pancakes. We'll get together, it'll be great. But no. Yeah. It's like this thick and you put syrup and some people put powdered sugar on it, some people put lemon juice on it.

It's just nasty strawberries. You could.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like I said, it's dense. It's. It's like the egg is like a cornbread maybe.

No, I mean, obviously wouldn't.

No, no. I mean, it's. It's wet and dense. So it's like. I don't know how to explain it.

It's almost like we're gonna get on subject.

No, we're not. Wet and dense, like an idiot who fell into the ocean. No.

Okay, so I made the clip. I made the clip. I made the clip earlier. But, like, do you guys. I actually do. I love eggnog. Do you guys drink eggnog?

I've tried eggnog once. I couldn't get behind the texture.

Oh, I don't like eg.

I'm the eggnog fan here.

Well, I also might have to blame my mother because she raised me on skim milk, and so I don't like thick milk. I love the flavor of whole milk. But you're always like, man, now I'm dying of thirst and everyone thinks I'm a psychopath and I'm gonna bring back the apocalypse.

All right, well, there's something wrong with you for that.

Now, skim milk, I think, is wrong. It's just so wrong.

I'm a 2% guy, but I like whole milk, so.

I love whole milk.

I just can't get it. Not everybody gets more.

The more whole, the better.

Not everybody likes the whole milk. So I don't ever get whole milk.

But yeah, yeah, we get it as organic as it can get. I want it. I don't want it. I want it as least touched as possible.

Straightforward.

I'd hook up a hose to the cow.

Our college had a processing plant on campus, and so we get. We would get freshly processed whole milk.

Interesting.

From our own cows.

That's amazing.

It was really good. There you go.

All right.

All right. So the question.

The question.

Oh, wait.

Should.

Wait, hang on.

No, no. The question before the theme song. The question.

The question before the theme song for.

Dave to start with. It's a great one. Okay, are you ready for this?

I'm a little nervous myself.

You should be. Have you ever been mad or upset with God? Welcome to the Truth Response.

Sam. All right.

All right. So, Matt, you want to pray?

Yeah, I think I should.

Okay.

All right. Father, thank you for today. And as it is that we are recording today on Christmas Eve, we want to just thank you, Lord, for your plan that you enacted by coming into the flesh, sending your son into the flesh for us. We have a God that understands us in our condition, that understands us in our pain, understands us in our temptation, and understands who we are as being human. And so, you know, you can intercede for us. You can do everything for us. You can forgive us for everything that we are. We don't have to doubt you. We don't have to be afraid of youf. We just need to embrace youe, Lord, because youe have shown us that yout are willing to go to the ends of everything in order to do so. And so, Lord, we thank youk for coming. We thank youk for doing what yout've done, and we look forward to youo coming again. Please guide us in our discussion today and help us to become better reflections of you and those listening to do the same thing. Lord, just in everything that we do, we praise you and we pray in Jesus name. Amen.

Amen. So the question for you to start with.

Oh, yeah, he's gonna do a repeat.

Yeah. Is have you ever been mad or upset with God?

Yes. As much as nobody ever wants to admit it, I think it literally comes down to why aren't you working on my timeline? The one that sticks. Sticks out is when I was. When baby number two was on the way. We were living in Minnesota. My wife comes to me and said, I need to be near my mom. And of course, you know the. The physical reaction of, of course, yes, that makes sense. But I was literally born and raised in Minnesota. Thirty years of just memories and anchored, like, everything for me is there. So I said, okay. I said, would you allow me to pray about it and see if I'm getting a different response? She said, no problem. So for two straight months, it was multiple times a day of like, on my knees begging, I need you to tell me what to do, and getting nothing. Right. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, like, what am I supposed to do? And then I had a. One of my close friends, he goes, okay. He, like, just taps my back and he says. He says, do you think it's possible that the reason God's not responding is because he's going to bless you in either decision? I was like, okay. He goes, so if you had to look at both situations, what makes the most logical sense? And I was like, moving. And he goes, then do that. It's like, and obviously this is a guy. Like, I love this guy, and I have a whole history with him, so I didn't want to have to leave him. So him to have the forthright to say, I think God's going to bless you. And I think you need to go because this is going to make your wife happy.

Yeah.

But I think that's probably the basis is I've been praying about this. I want you, I want direction, and you're not giving me anything. And it's driving me insane.

That can be maddening. When you're looking for him to just tell you or give you something, you know, Lord, there's sometimes where you're like, just give me something. Something that let me know that at least you're in this craziness, no matter what it is. I think it's funny because when I look back in my life, there have been times where I felt like. I remember being in the headspace where I felt like I was mad or frustrated with God. Now it's funny because I can look at those scenarios and go, you know, I was just really frustrated. It doesn't necessarily matter. Him or I wasn't. You know, it's just that I was frustrated and I wanted him to help me in that moment. I wanted him to do something different than what was going on. I wanted him to help me understand. And so for instance, I'll give you the reason that always comes, the scenario that always comes in my head first. I went through a divorce in my early 20s and it was just. God was not, I went into that, the wrong headspace. God was not in that marriage. And it, that whole thing crushed me in ways that I never thought I could be crushed. I felt like my heart got put in a blender and hit frappe and then got incinerated. And then the. Anyway, so I was in such pain and I was so frustrated and I was so hurt and I was so mad about it all and it was not what I wanted for my life. And none of this was supposed to happen this way. And I was out in the middle. I lived my parents house, lived in the middle of the country and we were surrounded by cornfields and I just went for a walk and I was trying to deal with my emotions and my frustrations and I ended up screaming out loud at God, screaming up into the air why and all these things. And I felt like I was so mad at him and I felt like I was so frustrated at him. And like, now it's a blessing. I'm so glad that he didn't because. No, I mean, I mean it. The wife I have now, oh my gosh, she was designed for me. She was what was supposed to be for me. The whole God has been in that relationship the whole time. And so I'm so thankful that he didn't do something to change that for me at the time. But in my frustration, I felt it at the time and now I look at it with such almost compassion for myself. Like, I get it, dude, you were hurting and nothing was going the way you thought it was. Supposed to go. And you didn't realize the mistakes that you made. And you weren't even owning those things. You were just. You were in pain and you were mad, and you were confused and you were scared, and the only person you knew to talk to was God. And, you know, what's the one thing I can credit myself with? And not that I'm trying to give credit, but I look at that man, and I'm like, you know what, though? But you didn't turn your back on him. You were mad, you were frustrated, but you kept him involved. And people ask about, is it okay to be mad at God? Interesting question.

Hmm.

I think he would rather you come to him angry and frustrated and complaining than to turn your back on him altogether, you know, because at least you're in the relationship. How many times can you go to a friend and be like, man, but they're still your friend. They're gonna be like, okay, let's go. Bring it. You know, I think that's. I think it's important to be able to do that. And so I look back at, like, that times, like I said, always top of my list, where I look at myself and like, oh, man, if you only knew. If you only knew, like, it's gonna be okay. And I think God was doing the same thing. Like, you're gonna need to just trust me in this, you know?

I mean, look at what he allowed David to go through.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, he allowed David to suffer for a whole week not knowing whether his son was gonna live, and then took him. Like, it's like. You think that was easy for God?

Nope.

I mean, probably easier than it was for David, but not. I mean, look at. Look at parenting.

Well, I mean, you're right. Look at Isaiah. What is it? When. When I can't remember which. I don't know what you're talking about in Isaiah. God's talking about when the. The destruction of Moab.

All right?

And when he's talking about destruction of Moab, he. He laments it. He's like, this is gonna happen. And this hurts my heart. I'm crying about this, but it's got to happen. And it's like, you see, God's justice, it has to be this way, but it's not that he celebrates the destruction of his creation. And I love that part of that where you get to see God's heart along with it, because so many people want to go. Especially when it comes to Old Testament. They want to go, oh, the Old Testament. God is so vengeful. First off, it's the same God. And you can see that he did not. It's not that he enjoyed this, it hurt him.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and yeah, so parenting is great.

Parallel. I mean, I've told my son, I've told him some multiple times. Like society basically says that you shouldn't get mad because if you get mad, there's something wrong with you. Right, Right. So I've told my son, I'm like, you can be as mad as you want, go beat the couch, go scream into the ether, that's fine. But the minute you turn around and you take it out on somebody else, so you turn around and disrespect about. I think when he was about three years old, I think I remember I was sitting at the table, my wife was cooking something and. And he got upset and he shouted something at her and I said, nope. And I reached over the chair and I lifted him up by his shirt over my shoulder and he just, you know, grabbed his butt and. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's like. But to the same thing. It's like when I sit there and I smack my son's bottom, I don't enjoy what I'm doing. It's like this is killing me. And I know how much pain you're in and you are struggling to understand why, but this has to happen or you're not going to understand what you did wrong.

I mean, look at, look at the wilderness, right? The 40 years that was God saying, go to your room. I need to calm down. I mean, right though. But think about it. Like he could have just been like, I'm gonna destroy you. Because he said that a million times, dude.

Actually, as you said that, he's like.

Go to your room.

That's like dealing with teenagers. It's like, yeah, you're gonna go out into the world, but not yet.

You gotta kill yourself. I need a minute. Go to your room. That's what it was.

Honestly, it's like you've been listening to too much Egyptian TikTok. You need to get back into the right mind frame.

Yep. Cause wasn't it, I think somebody said that it was like the straight shot from Egypt to the promised land. It was like an 11 day trip or something.

Two weeks.

Two weeks. Two weeks.

Yep.

And it took them two weeks.

Definitely not take 40 years.

Nah. Now with a million people, like, it could have taken more than two weeks, but it still wouldn't have taken 40 years.

Well, how many bathroom breaks? I mean, that's a Lot of people.

Well, and then when it talks about like, and they constructed their tents and how much they went through every time they constructed their tent, this is like a day long thing just to build all the tents and then take them all down.

So get you that. They got pretty good at it though.

Yeah. So let's say it was gonna take six months, but still 40 years is 40 years. Go to your room. That's awesome.

Honestly, that's especially because I have four teenagers in my house right now. And I can tell you that, like, as you said that I was like, oh, I kinda can't do that right now.

When I was a kid, when I was a kid, I always thought, you know, go to my room was the punishment. Like, what's part of the punishment, right? But it's not. It is like the grace, right? It's my parents having grace. Because what they want to do right now, or mercy, you know, is like they want to beat the living hell out of me.

Whoa.

Right. But what they're going to do is.

They'Re going to just not condone the beating of children.

You all know what I mean. The truth. And if you don't know what I mean, you need to find another podcast. No, this is the second episode in a row.

Look, but yeah, I'm on board.

Whatever.

I support spanking.

But it's that whole like, well, yeah, I don't care if you support her or not. I'm going to spank my kid up if she needs it. So, yeah, no, it's that whole like, I need you to go to your room so I can calm down enough so I can discipline you and not punish you.

Right?

Like it needs to shift.

That is grace.

I need to shift that, that, that gear. It's grace and mercy, right? Like it's both. Because it's merciful not to just beat the tar out of you like you deserve right now.

But sometimes it's just hard.

I need you to learn, you know.

Part of being an adult and as well as being a parent is learning how to regulate our own feelings as we parent. And so, yeah, sometimes, sometimes when you.

Get a handle on that, let me know, right?

Sometimes. Look, look, I've been working on it for, you know, My oldest is 18. I've been working on it since then. And like, you know, it's funny is that, you know, it's. I can see progressions and I can see where it's like you still have work to do because, yeah, you're right. There's times where it's Like, I need you to go in there because I, I'm having trouble regulating right now. And if, and if I have to keep going, I'm not sure what's going to happen. I'll tell you what, when I have found the most strength in a situation is when I can just take it. When my kids are just, they're going and I can stand there and regulate like, okay, this is okay. This is okay. This is okay. This is. Don't take it personally. Don't let it hit your ego. Don't let it get you upset. Just take it, you can take it and just let them do what they need to do and then go, okay, we don't do that. That has been one of the most challenging things in my life because.

I.

Felt like for me, you know, growing up, I messed up plenty. You know, that's what kids do. But I got a lot of sore behinds. I've got, I got a lot of yelling at, I got a lot of all that. So with all that being said, like, I didn't want it to be, I found myself when I first started parenting, having these weird knee jerk reactions to things that I didn't fully understand where they were coming from and knowing that I didn't like them. And so trying to break that cycle, maybe trying to figure out a new way to do this, took a lot to the point where sometimes I'd have to take my wife aside and go, this is how I was feeling. This is what I felt like I had to do right away and this is why I had to do this. And yeah, so for me to be able to stand there at certain times and have them say something that I know they can't say or they shouldn't say, or I will not allow them to say and go, okay, and take it has been one of the biggest challenges of my life. So that I can then go, okay, so this is when we're not gonna do that anymore, you know, so, yeah, it's. Oh my gosh, it takes a while. And I've only gotten a little better at it with practice because without that kind of control, as soon as they mouth, I mouth.

Yep. And that's something you're going to continue to master until you're at an age where then you're going to teach somebody else how to master it. But even going back to kind of a combination of so time when you were mad with God and calling back to the conversation we had before we started, where we're talking about how to properly submit to your pastor when he has a move or. Well, so we had a situation. So when a couple years ago, the gentleman who was running the young adult ministry, his name was Jacques. And so he's a very quiet, closed, emotional individual. So every time there was a meeting of young adults, everybody was crying, everybody was sad, right? And so at some point, he comes to me and says, dave, you're the antithesis of what I am. He goes, you're the yin to my yang. I need you to help me with this. So I need you to come in and bring life into this group. Cause I keep sucking it out. I'm like, okay. So we did that together for about six months or so, and then he was called up to Bradenton. So he wound up leaving. And so, of course, I'm thinking, well, now I've been running this with him, so I'm just gonna take over, right? So we went and sat down with the associate pastors, Pastor Omar and Adriana. We said, all right, so. So we're ready to take over. And they said, no. And really, that doesn't make any sense. So I kind of, like, half fought him a little bit, but ultimately it's like, okay, well, that frustrates me. But I see there may be something you see, I don't see. And so for a full year, they were kind of overseeing it. And we just. We kept going, and they kept saying, you know, do these do that? And I remember just multiple days of, like, I don't understand. Like, I'm a shoo in for this. I've literally been doing it, and I have the experience, and I've done, why am I not being. And it was so frustrating. Almost a year to the day later, they said, okay, if you're up for it now, we're ready to put you in the position. And it just so happened that, you know, we said yes. And as my wife and I were walking out, we're like, as early as two weeks ago, if you had offered this to us, we would not have had the mental capacity to handle the situation because of all the stuff we were in the middle of going through. So that's one of those situations where you can't ever tell what God's doing, but you can see what he did. And so to be able to turn around and say, wow, like, you guys knew something about what we were about to go through, and we had no idea. And so I'm very glad that even in my anger, I was like, okay, I'm angry. I hate this situation, but I trust that you know what you're doing. So I'm on board.

I can relate to that a lot. I remember, so when I lived up in Maryland, when I was accepting the call to ministry, I was part of this really big church and I felt like my path was going to go into there. And then kind of I thought it was going to be with them for a long time. And so I did different ministries with them. And for a good amount of time, I felt so supported and so encouraged and so loved there. And, you know, I'm doing all the men's groups and, you know, co ed groups and mobile church groups and da, da, da, da. And I was like, man, this is great. And they even were like, when I went, I did undergrad classes, support. When I entered into seminary, support. And then this weird season happened where, like, I'm thinking, man, this trajectory is looking really good. This is gonna be great. I'm starting to get established. Everybody's right there. The congregation started really knowing me from where I was. We had multi campuses, and the campus I was at, people really started to see me as one of the regular purple there. And I was like, this is, this is. I felt like everything was going great.

Did he say the regular purple?

He did.

Okay, Did I say purple?

You did, but I'm thinking you meant to say people.

People. Regular people. Not the purple. Not the purple.

He's had too much coffee today.

It's gonna be. All the comments now are just gonna be the word purple.

So regular people were trying to, you know, so it felt really good. And then we came to a season where the one guy who I really like and I consider a buddy of mine, he was the pastor of that campus, and then he was gonna leave. That's when suddenly it felt like I was just there. It was such a different change of pace for me where nobody was really talking to me anymore from the leadership. I mean, they were there. They'd say hello. And I'm not saying that they were just being cold, but there wasn't that feeling of being encouraged and moving me forward and all that stuff. It felt kind of there. And I was like, what is going on? And then I'd have congregate people from the congregation come up to me like, oh, he's leaving. Are you going to take over? Are you going to be the pastor? And I was like, nobody said anything to me at all about anything. And so I'm like, this is wild. I'm finding out about this with you guys. Like, everything felt weird and I just felt like I was on an island again. Like, how did I. How did I get here? Like, did I do something? Did. And like, I started trying to backtrack and like, no, everything's been going, really, what is going on? And I look at it now and I realize that God was going, yeah, this was a stepping stone. This wasn't the trip. And so like, it was like, honestly, I swear, this is how it feels. And this is how I still think of it. I think it suddenly shrouded. I think God was like, all right, I need you to help him get to this point. And then. And just shrouded everyone from it. And it was wild. Another friend of mine ended up taking that position, which is great. I don't think I should have gotten it. I think she should have gotten it for sure.

And.

But I just felt ostracized and I felt kind of on an island. I was still doing my things, but it wasn't the same. And that was really frustrating. Like, what is going on? I felt like everybody was with me, everybody was behind me. And it wasn't that it's supposed to be. It wasn't supposed to be all about me, but I felt like they were accepting me into whatever God was leading me into. And then, I don't know, like, then next thing you know, Covid hits, right? And I was. We moved everything online and I was still doing ministry online. And I finished my. I was finishing. I just finished seminary and just. It just felt like everybody's like, what are you going to do now? I don't know. And then they closed my campus. Oh, ours was. So we had a lot of brick and mortar campuses. Ours is one that we shared a facility with somewhere. So it was. Every Sunday is set everything up, tear everything down.

Oh, yeah.

And that was one of the teams I led. And so I tell you what though, it hurt. Not just me, but a lot of us. The volunteers we had at that campus were some of the best volunteers I've ever worked with in any church. And up until this one. This one, we have some amazing volunteers here. But these people, they poured everything into this campus every Sunday to make it happen. And then suddenly it was. Felt like it was just ripped away from us.

Yep.

And what was really frustrating for that, like, everybody was like, I don't know. The only conversation that people would have for me from leadership or anything was, hey, what other campus you gonna go to? Nothing else. And I was like, what is going on? And I honestly was like, alright, God, am I supposed to go to different one. But I didn't Feel like, go there, go there, go there, go there. I was like, oh, no, I get it. So frustrated. And then. Then I got involved with a group of people, and we ended up doing a church plan, which was wild.

And then.

So that was weird, because then now I'm preaching every Sunday, and I'm doing this church plant thing. And it just. It came from feeling, like, completely disconnected suddenly. And I tried to have conversations, but it wasn't. It was such a weird point of view, but, like, that was another stepping stone to another thing. And I'm like, you know, sometimes we don't see what God's doing. He can see the plan, but we can't. And so just because we can't see it, where there's moments where we're going to find ourselves just like. But what. You know, the most annoying question I had when I was taking. When I was in seminary, I did seminary. I did it throughout the summer and everything. So I did it in three years. And was, what.

What. What.

What is. What is this? When you're done, what is this going to. Are you gonna lead pastor church? Are you gonna do this? Are you gonna do that? I have no idea. God told me to do this, so that's what I'm doing. I don't know what comes next. And actually, when I was finishing seminary, that was really a hard time for me. And my. A friend of mine who was in seminary with me, she came to me and she said, you know what it is? You're in the wilderness right now, and that's hard. And I was like, yeah, I did feel like that. Like God was preparing me for something, but I couldn't see what it was yet. And I'm like, I'm ready. And then. Yeah. So there's two places I've been in a wilderness situation, and I've been in a hall. I like to call it the hallway situation, where it's like, I know there's another thing coming.

Mm.

But which door is it?

Well, that's that profound scene from the original Karate Kid with, like, when he's painting the fence and he's whacked in the car or whatever, and at some point just loses his mind to say, I don't understand what you're doing. And then God goes, I've been training you the last two years. You just didn't know it.

Yeah, exactly. And it can be maddening, you know.

Completely maddening, where, you know, it's funny. Like, I really like the concept of wilderness. I know we've talked about it a Little bit, but it's. The midbar is the Hebrew word for wilderness, and it comes from two different words, and it basically means, when used in scripture, the place where God talks to his people. That's the two words that come together to make midbar. And it's so cool because I look at it as a. Okay, the silence part of the midbar is him walking you out into the wilderness because he's walking with you. He's not absent. He's just quiet. Right. So that quiet part where he's not talking is only a portion of the wilderness. Right. It's. It's only a small part. Then he's going to give you a destination, and that's when he starts talking to you, and then he's going to train you, and then he might send you when you're ready. You know, like, it's one of those. Like, there's multiple parts to that wilderness, and it's that place where he's going to take you and train you and talk to you. The silence is only the beginning of the wilderness. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, though, it is frustrating.

Yeah.

Well, when you have different periods in your life where you feel like God's really communicating with you and guiding you, and then suddenly that stops, or you're like, what?

What happened?

And it's funny because, like, we don't even realize we are so in that moment. Perhaps he loves it because we are like children. Like, hold my hand. Hold my hand.

Hold my hand.

I want to cross the street. Hold my hand. And. But yet he's like, no, you've got this right now figure out what I've just said to you. You know, And I. And I. I feel confident in that, because. How many times did Jesus just ask a question? Sometimes kind of rhetorical, but just the point of the questions were always to get you thinking. He'd ask question after question after question, and each one of them is supposed to have you go, hmm, Mm. You know what I mean? He would just give you stuff and then go, okay, now.

Mm.

And wait. Okay. The problem is, you know, I'm one of many that loves to go, but could you just tell me?

So much easier if you did.

I got three tiers of anger, and it starts with, I'm angry at me. That's the angriest I get. The angriest person I get. Matt, that's me. And it. That's. That's my top tier. Angry. And it's where I start most of the time that trickles into angry at others. Right. Like that. That's. Usually if I'm angry with myself, it's. It trickles over into angry at others. And usually if I'm angry at others, it's because of something that I'm doing. The angry at God comes in whenever he doesn't do my will, you know, And. And so when God doesn't do my will, that's when I get angry at God and then I get put in my place. So, I don't know. Like, as far as getting angry at God, I mean, maybe there's a handful of times that I've actually been mad at God, but maybe. I mean, but he's also got broad shoulders, you know? Yeah. Like, his shoulders are so broad, he can take whatever it is that you can throw at him. He already knew you were gonna throw it in the first place.

Right.

According to a lot of people.

So, yeah, that's why I tell. Like I tell some of these, like, young guys who are about to be fathers. It's like the minute the baby enters your hands, the minute they put it in your hands, there's something going to unlock in your brain for the very first time. Regardless of how much training or seminary, all of a sudden you go, I understand my relationship with God now. And it doesn't happen until you hold your own baby.

You know, there is a different level of patience. There's a different level of love, for sure. And it's funny, too, because you think you have it with a spouse and you're not even close, you know, where, you know, you think you love things in a certain way. Even your parents. You love your parents. They're always your parent.

Like.

But things is like, I've seen. I've heard people like, yeah, but I had a bad parent. And they try to disregard them and try not to love them. There's a part of you that still go, that is still my mom. That's still my dad. There's still some kind of connection there. With a kid, though. That's your kid. You've made this. And you know, as a parent, man, I never. Like, that was really my introduction of what it really was to have an unconditional love where you're like, I will love you forever. I don't care what you do. And, you know, everything I have is yours anyway. It might not be right away, but, like, you're gonna, you know, like, oh, my gosh, I can't wait to just do everything. And I can't wait to see what you become. And I hope that I do a good Job and all these things and suddenly everything about your life is different. And it was a life change for me.

I mean, emotional change, it's a life change for anybody.

Well, no, I was in my testimony days.

I was a wild person in my testimony.

I did.

I love it. Go ahead.

Yeah, that's what I love calling them. I was a wild person. I did a lot of things that were kind of dangerous, risk taking, adrenaline based. And I lived basically a lot just for me. Because the only person I felt responsible to was myself for a large part of my. I mean, yes, God there, but like here I just did a lot of things because I felt like, because it was me, it was me, me, me, me, me. Then my son was conceived and it was like a light switch happened inside of me and I started giving things up so quickly. And some people, the untrained eye didn't see it, but anyone who really knew me started seeing changes right away.

And.

That was wild for me to go, oh my gosh, I'm actually responsible, fully responsible to someone else in my life. Like, the risks didn't feel worth it anymore. Most of them. There were still some things that I was having a little bit of fun with, but dude, some of the big stuff just right off the top. Right off the top. And I was like, wow, that was, that was quick. And. But the thing is, is it also felt like it wasn't a big deal. It didn't feel like having to quit an addiction.

Mm.

It felt like just going, alright, that's done.

Yep.

And then it kind of blew my mind that it was just gone because your priority shifted. Yeah.

All of a sudden it wasn't. It's not about me, it's not about my fun now. It's like I'm leaving this, this imprint on the next generation. So like when you have those moments where you like lose your temper or something, all of a sudden that's usually the anger is like, you idiot, you could like you're causing him, him or her personal long term damage, whatever. So now I kind of joke around and I'll say something like, you can talk to your theory about this later.

Like, yeah, well, you know, it's funny is that, that's really. For those. There are people in this world, that's how it is when they, when they come to know God. Because there's a way of the world without God. And then there's one when, when you fully, if you've never realized the reality of God, that he is in fact that he exists and that his son came when the reality hits, truly, and you accept that that is a. That's a life change. Something different happens. Even if you tried to live more, as we call it, secularly. There's a different reality, though. There. There's something you're accountable to. There's something that, like, you're gonna have to keep in the back of your mind at all times, whether you like it or not, because that's. That's real. That's. You know, you can go your whole life, like, first for their scientists is one of my favorite things to talk about. I love apologetics, but there are scientists that were not believers, and even if they flirted with agnosticism, they definitely weren't believers. And then they go out and they studied the science, and suddenly they're like, yo, God's the only thing that answers this honestly. Like a creation intelligence. This is all here. Like people that study DNA, the astronomy. I always have to make sure I slow down because sometimes astrology comes out, like, now astronomy, you know, there's people that study how things are made, and they're like, intelligent design, a creator, like, it's just staring them in the face. And as much as they want to avoid it, it's like, it's right here. And they're like, you know what I. And it changes them. It completely changes them. There's a woman. I love bringing her up. I think I brought her up, but I'm recently reading another book where she's interviewed, and she is. Her main science is the brain. And what blew her mind is that, you know, the difference is, like, there's. There's body, there's mind, but there's something else. And so she's like, that's the soul. Because there's something else interacting with the brain. You know, there's something that's. The brain really is then is like the engine that works the body. Something's working the brain. There's a different interaction outside the brain. And it's like, wow. And so for her, it's like, that was, you know, it was amazing, the research. But, like, that's what I'm talking about is like, when a reality hits new and, like, it can pull the shades down and go, all right, look, this is how the world is now, and you can't go back.

Yeah.

Have you guys ever listened to any of Tim Hawkins comedy? Oh, I love Tim Hawkins.

Okay.

I love his line where he's. I was at. I've seen him live several times. And he go. He always goes, if. If you need no other Convincing that God is real. Your brain is an ever evolving learning computer made of meat.

Yeah, that's not bad.

He goes, now tell me there's no God.

Right?

Right. And then one of our pastors was given the analogy that for like, going back to like the Big Bang, right? Nothing was there, and then all of a sudden something was there. Right. He said, for the. Let's see, the. The odds of. Let's just say your nervous system lining up the way it has to be is the. The same odds as throwing a dart from the moon to the earth and hitting a bullseye. And he said, you've got more than 55 million different things going on in your body that would have to line up perfectly. It's like throwing 55 million darts and hitting the dead center of the bullseye from the moon and every single time, like, that's the odds of any of this just happening. Right? Right.

But it's possible. Ooh, that's. I mean, it's possible. Right? So the difference. So here's, here's the. Here's the problem that most people get into whenever they dive into the science is. Explains it against God side and it's the whole. But it's possible, right? Like, and it's like, okay, but it's not probable.

Right.

Like, probability of that being true is astronomically nuts.

Well, the amount of work you have to do, that's the most amazing thing to me. For those who are faith.

Right. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Exactly. I have that book actually probably have a couple copies. But like, For those who have to have a naturalistic explanation to things, or as they call it, a naturalistic explanation to things, which I think in itself is problematic. But whatever they. The amount of work they have to do to go out of their way, you know, the path is like, boom. And here's this big old God. They're like, like, you seriously are trying so hard.

Yeah. But then they would say, well, that's God of the gaps. Right. Like, you're. You're just jumping from. From nothing to God because it seems to be the most most probable and easiest to get to. Right. But the problem comes in whenever they can't explain any of the trails that they're going down. Like, even Big Bang doesn't disprove. Like, I'm cool with if you want to believe Big Bang. I'm sure it was loud and huge when God said light. Right. When God spoke, and even not that. And we don't support this as a podcast, as a Church, anything like that. But even if you want to go down the route of evolution doesn't disprove God. I'm sorry, that's not a good enough excuse. Like, I can pretend for a moment that I believe in evolution for us to get to the point of, like, God exists, you know, so, like, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't disprove God. So you can't, you can't explain away God by, By doing any of these things. It doesn't. It doesn't work. And so, I mean, you can't disprove that existence. And so, like, I don't know. Probabilities, man probabilities. That, that all of these things were designed intelligently, even if it took millions of years for us to get to this point. Like, okay. Mm, yeah. All right, cool.

Yeah.

God is awesome regardless, you know, like.

So our God is an awesome God.

He is. He is.

And my brother is obsessed with the apologetic stuff. I have not had the wherewithal to go down the rabbit trail of projects.

Turek, Frank Turek.

Which actually.

Good. I've read. I've read a lot.

Cross Examined. Is there.

Yeah, there's so many. I mean, the easiest ones to get into if you want a crash course is anything by Lee Strobel.

Actually, I think that's the guy my brother listens to. What I would.

Well, he's really good. What I would tell you is if you're going to do a Lee Sturbol and you want to do a crash course, there's three books. You have to. I would read them in the following order. I would read A Case for Christ, then A Case for Creator, and then A Case for Faith. And that really summarizes the majority of his when it comes to apologetics for Christ. Apologetics for God. Apologists for our religion. Well, I won't even like calling it But Our Faith, the second, third book, that really does a great job in honing it in. And then there's expansions and stuff. He's done things on Heaven and Miracles and all this other stuff. But that's your core group will say, I've read those. I think they're fantastic. If the Case for Creator. If you want a book that takes Darwinism and in the first chapter slaughters it and then spends the rest of the. And then takes the rest of the book to completely dismantle it again. Yeah, that book's gonna do it because it's fantastic. It's so good. The people he talks about. The information in there is really good. It's probably, I love the case for Christ, but when I read the case for Creator, I was like, this is phenomenal.

Okay, absolutely. But getting back to the topic of being angry at God, I had a theory years ago and I've had people on both sides of it. So I think if you look at all the different ways God could have described himself, he uses the word father, right? So going back to obviously our interactions with our kids and things like that, it's like all these times where it's like, well, I feel really distant from God and I feel that, okay, so my thing has been like, my dad taught me some things and the way that I bring honor to my dad is to do these things without having to have him just hold my hand the entire time. So I think a lot, like, to your point, it's like, I want you to hold my hand as I'm doing all of these things and don't walk away from me. I'm scared. Right? But God goes, no, no, no. I have put people and training in your life to teach you how to do these things. I don't need to literally push you, guide you, walk you around life. You can do that part. I'm here 100%. Like, one of my biggest fights is maybe it's just the way that I was brought up. My mom was full blooded German. She's very much a. You're not bleeding, you're fine, go away.

It's like I had a paramedic father and he had. Was your dad a paramedic or just a fireman?

At one point he was mainly. Yeah, I mean, he did, he did ems. He did ems.

So we understand that.

Yeah, but he also, yeah, fireman, he.

Did suck it up. You're not going to the hospital.

Yeah, exactly.

In some case, my dad would cut himself wide open. Like, you're in these stitches. He's like, I'll just tape it up, it's fine.

So I think, I think, honestly, I think God puts people in your life to guide you to the right decision. And so I always, if people have ever approached me and said, you know, what should I do? I said, I think you need to find five people who, you know, are like, dead set, sold out to God, ask their opinion, and then at some point you're going to have to take it to scripture. But you will have to make a choice and you're going to have to live with the consequences of your decision.

And I think you should be living life with those five people. I think that should be a regular, ongoing thing, I'm 100% with you on that. And I think that obviously prayer, God gives you that God speaks to you. I mean, God will move your thoughts. He will do that part. There's scripture, right? If it goes against scripture, it's obviously not okay. And then the group appears. That's three of the most important parts of the discernment, is having those three things. I love it. I love that.

Well, even calling back to the last episode, if you haven't heard it, go back and listen to the last episode where we talk about being rooted in scripture. The more you're rooted in scripture, the easier it's going to be to figure out what God's trying to tell you. Because, like, hey, I don't know what to do. Wait a second, hold on. In this book, in this chapter. Oh, that's what he said.

Hm.

Let me throw this out to my council and say, hey, this is what I'm interpreting. Am I doing it wrong?

Right.

You know, but at some point, yeah, that's the hard part, is I have to make a call and I'm gonna have to live with the call. So this is where my wife and I differ, is that I'm all about. I'm gonna make all the calls and then I'll just deal with all the fallout. And she's. And she's a little more cautious. She wants to get all the covering to give us, you know, blessing over every decision that we're gonna make. And I'm like, we don't need the decision. We can make the God speaks to us too, you know, and then I'll make a bad call and then I have to get scolded, and then I try not to make another bad call.

Yeah, no, that when there's, when there's something that's important, I have got. I've got my several people that I'm like, hey, I don't know what to do here. I'm really bad at discernment for myself. I'm great at discerning things for others. Like, that's been a gift that God's given me. But I'm bad at discerning it for myself. Like, I don't. I don't know where I'm supposed to go, you know, and so I have my, my core people. But yeah, for sure.

Well, I mean, what, what is something that you guys do? Like, if you are struggling, right, with, like, you find yourself in a moment of just confusion or a bit lostness? What, what is something that you regularly do to try to get Yourself on the right path. Is it, is it reaching out to people?

Yeah, 100. That's, that's what I do is I, I talk to people. Yeah, I do.

Anybody who's been part of this is going to laugh when I say this. But I construct an email because like I write dissertations when I write emails, because I do a brain dump, right? So I have five or six guys that I tend to bounce ideas off of. Some of them I have. Actually there's one guy who I literally just. The only time we interact is when I send this email. So it's once every three years, right. And so, but it's like, but I trust his opinion and I know where he is in his life and things like that. So I'll typically go through and say, hey guys, here's the topic. This is everything. This is what I thought, this is what I feel. This is this. What's your opinion? And then some of them will send me a text saying, give me a couple of weeks to craft a response to your email. Some will call me immediately and some will send me a text saying I'm taking some time, let's talk next week, or something like that. But I like to get the whole thing out in an email so it's written down so everybody understands what I'm saying. And that tends to be it. So usually it's, I have a problem and it takes three weeks for me to ever get to an actual answer because I want everybody's feedback to the point where I would probably argue that I tend to cripple myself with waiting for someone else to tell me what to do because I'm scared I'm gonna make the wrong call.

Right? Yeah.

So my process is not that dissimilar, but it has a beginning. So when I'm feeling all crazy like that, I. I tend to start with God. But the first thing I have to do is get out of myself. So what I do is I'll get, I'll take myself away, whether it's outside somewhere or in a room by myself. And I got to completely let go to everything. And then, so I open it up to God for Him to speak first and I'll wait some time in prayer, some time in there's a subject for another day. But proper Christian meditation and just alright, that then scripture and then observance, those are the three things. So I'm listening, I'm looking for him and I'm trying to hear from him in his word. So those are the things that as I'm doing That's where I start. And oftentimes that'll at least help me get into a decent headspace to then start to maybe. And then I start there and then I will go to. Depending on what it is. Then there's people. I guess maybe that is a. Maybe, maybe. Maybe it's a gift that God gave me to discern the people I need to talk to about different things. But there's. I always find that there's different people I talk to for different things. Good, trusted people, of course. But I don't bring everything to all the people all the time, of course. So like I know this subject well. I'm gonna talk to this person, this person, this person or this one. I'm gonna might go this one, this one. There might be some overlaps. Oops, sorry.

Yeah, I never go to one person either. It's got to be multiple. Yeah, I don't, I don't think one person is good. I think that's, I think that's a.

Usually one sided at least two or three.

Yeah, I'd say three is probably one of the better.

But yeah, so there's people that I'll talk to.

But like.

Yeah, I always start, I gotta. Oftentimes I think I started to recognize that I need to make sure I'm not in the way first. So I have to put myself aside and then I start with the guy who made me and I go from there.

That's smart. That's what I think. That's what all of us want to do. Because they always say start with God, start with scripture, then go to your council. And too many of us just run to the council first and say what the Bible says.

I feel like we're praying about things. I feel like the majority of us are praying about it, but we're not doing that other stuff, you know, like as, as quickly. But dude, I, I don't know that I can get out of my way doing those things. Like one of the things that I've got to do is I need to. If I'm doing things the right way, I should be reaching out to my wife first. You know, she's the number one person that God has placed in my life with incredible discernment and incredible wisdom, which I don't usually do. But when I'm in the season that like I'm in right now. Right. Like I'm in a rough season right now. Emotionally, spiritually, just I'm. I am in a rough spot. Besides going to those people, like going to those people at least they know that I'm. I'm not done. I'm not quitting. You sure? I mean, like, because if I don't reach out, and especially to several specific people, and I'm in this boat, like, I'm. I'm out. I'm done. I'm quitting, whatever it is, you know? And so I don't mean I'm going to, you know, hurt myself or anything, but music is the other place. Like, admitting that I'm in a rough spot is a hard thing for me. It's become easier more recently, and that's because I think I finally have certain people in place that encourage me to do that. Not in a. I don't know. I think we had this conversation several times on the podcast recently, but, like, not in the emotions all the time state, but, you know, in that, like, okay, you can't just be bottled, you know, you gotta let it out. So I've started turning to writing music. Mm. Lately, I've just started writing music. I just wrote this last week. I wrote an 80s rock ballad that is, like, I'm not doing okay right now. And everyone else around me is, you know, Christmasy, and they're full of this joy, which is a. You know, I mean, everybody has their struggles through this time. Like, it's not everybody's joy all the time, but that's what you see, you know? And so, like, it just lays it out there, and it's helped me flesh out. Like, okay, a. I'm not alone, right? I think we've talked about this last week. I'm not alone in this. Like, I. I am struggling, but at the same time, like, I'm not to a point where I can deal with it yet, you know? So, like, it does. It's not one of those things that I can just be like, I'm gonna read some Bible and meditate and. And then I'm out of my way, you know? Like, I wish it was that easy. And for some people, it is. And maybe that's not even easy. But I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, sometimes, like, it's. It's not those things that can just work.

Well, I don't want you. I don't want to. I don't want to give off the idea that it's just a. It's a very simple, like, a.

Like, switch.

It's something that. Honestly, it's something that I've learned to do over time. Better. It's never perfect, but better. And the first time, it really clicked. Like, oh, man. You need to start here. More often is when God really came at a time where I was in a really bad way, mentally especially. I might have told this story on the podcast before, but I was in a really bad way financially. My family and I, we were in a spot where it was like everything was so tight. There was this financial wall that I was like, we're. We're going at it at 60 miles an hour, and this is going to destroy us. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I felt so frustrated and so lost, and I kept trying to put it on my shoulders. And I was actually having anxiety attacks. Full blown anxiety attack, crippling. It was ridiculous. And I gave up as what I did. I really genuinely, with everything, I had realized, I can't do this. And I just went to God and I just laid it out. God, I can't. I got nothing. I've proven to myself that I've got nothing. I said, you can do this. I know you can do this, but I obviously can't, so I'm coming to you. And I laid it all out. And I remember that day. It was a Friday. I had gotten home from work, just kind of destroyed. And I said, you know what I'm going to do?

I actually.

I got to just believe that. I know that you have a greater plan than me. And I said, I'm going to go through my weekend as if everything's fine because I can't keep going through this. And I did. I went through. I had a great Saturday with my family and I. We went to church Sunday, everything was great. And then Monday, I kid you not. And this doesn't happen for everyone this way. That's the disclaimer.

So don't.

It's not a pattern. It's just something that happened. But I got a call. I was at work and got a call from a place I used to work saying, all right, we need you back. And that whole situation fixed, the financial situation in a way that I never saw coming. And I was. I remember thinking, man, you work faster than I thought, but like it. But the thing is, I. Through that experience, the number one thing I learned is, man, you really are holding too much here, where he can hold way more. He can hold everything, and you keep trying to grab it and hold it and do it yourself. And I think there. There's things that he gives us stuff to do, obviously, but I needed to bend to that. He really is the guy in charge of everything. And so when I'm feeling Similar feelings again. I'm like, all right, what do you got to lay down? And it's usually myself.

Yeah. And that was. Bad choice of wording on my part. I didn't mean. It was an easy thing. I'm saying for people like me doing. Doing that, I'm able to then get into my own head even more. So. So I need to speak it. I need to talk it out to be able to get there.

Well, I think the other side to it, too, is that it's very. Made very clear when you watch, like, all Jesus miracles and everything, God is not a God of formulas. Because if he was, then we would pick up on the formula and then we could go, I can do this myself.

We don't. We might not like math, but we're pretty good at it. I tell you what. As a kid growing up, I know.

So I don't know.

I learned math pretty. And the easiest math was this. Plus this equals a butt whooping. So I learned that math really quick.

Some formulas work because, I mean, Jesus healed the blind person, multiple blind people in different methods. Because he knows that if we knew that spitting in the dirt and rubbing it in your eyes is how you achieve, then all of us would be doing that ourselves. Wondering.

Yeah.

We'd be blinding ourselves even worse.

So to say that, like, your process is your process, and it means whatever you can do to get yourself into a particular headspace and.

And for some, that helps them.

Yeah.

And you have to be going to Scripture. You have to be going to God at some point in that process.

Yep.

You have to. Like, that is. That is a part of the process.

Yep. Because even coupling with, like, you know, feeling like, God is a great dad, and he's like, you don't need me all the time, but God also wants you to lean on him.

Right. Right.

He's like, I want to help you, so please. And I think when you go through those wilderness times, it's like you get to this wall. I would say the. The mo. The biggest move of God is when you finally realize, I can't do this. And sometimes you just have to keep going through these processes where you just smash into a wall and say, I'm sorry, I did it again.

That's God saying, welcome to the same page.

Yeah. I thought you learned this lesson. Apparently you didn't. No, actually. Or it's more him going, yeah, you thought you learned this lesson, but you didn't. Going back to where we started here. If you are feeling mad, angry, frustrated with God, maybe it is time to take a step back and go, what are you bringing into this? Like, what? Really? Let's dissect yourself before.

Before I let you finish. Because you're more of the softer, like, suggestions. Your softer suggestions. Let me. Let's land the plane. Just let's land the plane. This way we. Let's each give some advice on how to deal with being mad at God.

Okay?

Okay. Because I feel like that's where that was going to lead. And I didn't want you to go into that soft spot until last because mine is. Mine is suck it up and humble yourself. Oh, like, I get so tired of like, even myself, right? Like, you need to suck it up and humble yourself. Because if you're angry at God as much as that's okay, remember who you are in comparison. Like dope, right? The only person to compare yourself to is God and his standard, right? You are not him. So you better check who you're talking to, right? Who you're mad at and what scripture has to say about. About all of that, right? Like, if his plans are to. To. For us to prosper and whatever way that looks, I mean, it could be us in a prison prospering in the way that he wants us to prosper. Like Paul had to go through. Through, right? Like, but. Or even John the Baptist, you know, to death. Like, who are you, you know, who are you to be. To be in charge, right? Who are you to have your will done? So mine is to suck it up and humble yourself, right? So now I'll pass it off to you guys because I know that we shouldn't end there, but I think that some people need to hear that 100%. And I think that, that, that is something that. That I need to hear at times too.

Well. And I think the other side. We'll let you land the plane on the nice soft mattress, right? Is. I had a bit of a revelation years ago when I was serving in the youth ministry. There was a. Another gentleman named Sean. And he. We were sitting in this. He and I were both serving together. We also both worked together, right? And so because I worked with him, we talked a lot about what we're both going through, right? And he. He's one of those guys, he loves to chase shiny objects, everything thing. So he's constantly moving, moving, moving, going, going, going. Never sleeps, right? And he's half stressed out most of the time. So when we were sitting with the leadership of the youth group, they were talking about, you know, bear each other's burdens, right? This is why we're here. You need to talk to each other. And I raised my hand and I said, I. Me and Sean used to have this statement. We used to say, I respectfully disagree. And so we was always, I respectfully disagree. Here's the problem. I already know that Sean is going through so much. How in the world is he gonna carry anything that I've got? Right? I'm like, so I don't feel comfortable going to him because I know how much he's going through. And then they talked a little bit, and finally Sean just kind of looks. He goes, why are you. Why are you telling me what I can handle and what I can't handle? He's like, come to me with what you've got, and if I can't handle it, I will help you find someone who can. It's like. But, you know, it's like. And that's. That's so my. That's my encouragement is these guys are going, I can't go to him. He's got too much. It's like, go to them and let them tell you so good that I can't handle this right now, but let me help you find someone who can.

And also on that, like, going to that person that has a lot, like, they may be able to unload some of that on you too. And then both of yours burdens are lighter. Right. Because somebody else's burdens are a whole lot lighter than your own. It's a whole lot less stressful to help somebody else with their burdens than it is for you to deal with your own. So if you're helping each other, I mean, that may be the answer is you've got too much stress, I've got too much stress. Let's help each other out. And then we have a whole lot less stress altogether.

Yep. Actually, I think that's probably one of the most helpful things I've ever done. And it never occurs to me in the moment, whenever I'm having those moments where I'm like, I'm so angry. I'm so frustrated. If somebody pops up in my text message feed saying, hey, I need help with something. By redirecting what I'm going through to helping this person, this just kind of just goes away.

And it's.

At the end of the day, you're like, why was I stressing so much? I like, what. What's his name? The host of Family Feud? I can't name his name. Steve Harvey. Harvey. So he said. He said, the fact that you're sitting in this room Right now means that your success or your survival rate of impossible situations is 100%. It's like. And to go, wow, like, why in the world was I stressing so much? I'm okay.

Yeah.

Right.

So, Landis, what you got?

Well, yeah, so there's people that you, you go, you think that, can they handle this? Obviously, I mean, the, the obvious answer on the table is, look, God can handle everything.

Yeah, yeah.

You might be feeling frustrated, might be angry with him, but you know what? Take it to. It's okay to take it to him. Take it to him. But here's my suggestion. When you take it to him, take him through it all, I mean, the whole course of events, and open your eyes up to every detail. Because I find that when you take someone and this is something that, if you want a secret that therapists do, that counselors do, when they're sitting down with you and they're trying to help you go through things, look at every detail. This is how this happened. This is. And see yourself in it. And anything you did or didn't do, how you felt, didn't feel, how you reacted, didn't react. Take all the course and just go through it with God. If it helps to journal it, journal it. If it helps to just say it out loud, say it out loud. If you want to type an email, type an email. Don't send the email to everyone.

So, but like, don't click send all.

Yeah, send all. But like, some things shouldn't be out there, but like, go through it and really work through all those events. And if it means stopping from time to time on that journey and really unpacking one event or another, do so. It's cathartic. But also God wants to work with you. It might feel like he's silent, but sometimes you going with him and going, well, this is how it was and this is how I felt. But then I think that's because I felt this and because I think it reminded me of this. If you're willing to go on those journey with you, he can really start to help you not only unpack but, but heal and get better perspective and all those things. So take it to him, but give it all to Him. Don't hold things back. One of the number one things, if you're going to go to God about stuff that is going to get in the way of him helping you is holding things back. And that's parts of you that you don't want to talk to him about. He can handle it and he can forgive it.

All.

He loves you more than anything that you can ever encounter on this earth. Any person, any object. He's going to love you greater than any. All of it.

Oh, before you jump into the next thing, I want you to. I want you to. When you talk about going back through everything. How many times have you sat with your kid when they're like, I messed up on this. This math thing and I can't figure it out, and they're crying and what's the first thing you say is, all right, let's start at the beginning. What'd you do?

Take me through it. Yeah, take me through it. It's exactly right. So go through it. Be willing to start from the beginning.

Maybe not the last 10%.

Maybe not in the beginning. God created heaven and the earth, but, like, start at the beginning of what happened with you and try to really just get it out there. You know, if you have people in your life that you can really trust to go through that thing, great. But God can ultimately handle, quite literally, any and every possible thing that you can think of, feel, do. He can handle it. You know, sorry about the break into a rap there.

For a second, you started, boom, boom.

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

But no, seriously. So, you know, and no one's gonna care more for you through that whole process, so open yourself up to that. That's why I start there. But, like, it's.

Let.

Let it come out. Let it come out. Even the stuff that you're afraid to let out, let it come out.

We call that the last 10%.

Yeah, give.

Give that. Leave that last 10% on the table, too, because that's where change happens.

As you're unpacking things, you see that locked door? Unlock that door. Let it come out. That's a bad word. Let it come out. I don't care what it is. Let it come out. He can handle it.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Beautiful.

Good. Good stuff. Hey, we're at 88 subscribers on YouTube.

All right.

I know we keep bringing it up, but when you're getting close to that cutoff, I mean, we need 12 more.

We need 12 more.

So what happened?

For every disciple.

That's right.

Or Tribe of Israel.

So what happens at 100?

At a hundred? We are gonna do the live show at 250.

Ah, gotcha. Cool.

Sweet. We need that soon.

Yep.

Because we got to have time to plan.

And we're trying to get some cool stuff going.

And we're at 300 and 300.

200.

Dave said something about 236 sponsoring with hats or something.

I don't know.

Didn't he?

Something like that.

Well, I put a. I put a link out to the podcast to all my young adults and I'm like, give it a listen. Like that kind of stuff.

Listen, subscribe.

That's right.

Hit that.

Smash that, like, button.

That, like, button smash.

That's what he said. Smash it.

Yep.

I did that with my say a lot.

Yeah. During COVID I wound up getting the camera working. Did I talk about this last time?

Yeah.

So yeah, smash, like. Share Share Share Share Comment Comments Comment Purple. Don't comment Purple.

If you're listening, comment Purple.

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Purple.

Purple it up.

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We can make sure to just say purple. And then people like, I don't understand all the Purple.

Purple. Oh, watch the podcast.

See, so they'll say purple and then small letters underneath. It'll have the episode number. Yeah, episode 237 or 236 or whatever. Yeah.

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