I remember back about 10 years ago when I was working at WMATA in Washington, D.

C.

as a contractor with MV Transportation as the Director of Operations for

the day to day service of the Metro Access Paratransit System, the fourth

largest in the nation at the time.

We were transporting about 8, 000 trips a day, and there was so

much happening in any given day.

Construction.

Congestion in downtown D.

C., .Presidential motorcades, people not being ready at their medical

appointment to get pit backed up.

So there was a constant movement of trips, even though they were pre scheduled

trips one to seven days in advance, there was a lot of same day movement.

Unfortunately, we didn't have a lot of good same day solutions other than to

try to put it back on another vehicle and potentially cause another trip to be late.

Well, guess what?

That is old news.

Over the last decade or so, there has been the integration of taxicabs and

TNCs, Transport Networking Companies, like SilverRide, to really help

transit agencies across the nation address that kind of same day service.

And today we're going to talk with the leaders of three of the nation's

leading paratransit systems, Los Angeles, Access Services, TriMet in

Portland, and the biggest one of them all, New York City transit system.

This episode series is sponsored by Uber Transit, who recently

published Transit Horizons 2.

0, The Mobility Evolution.

The industry perspective paper explores how, public private partnerships have

and can enhance public transportation.

It's available for download at uber.

com forward slash transit horizons.

I'm Paul Comfort, and this is Transit Unplugged.

we're excited to have three of the nation's leaders talking about

what they're doing right now to improve paratransit services for

some of our most vulnerable patrons.

Andre, Colaiace is the Executive Director of Access Services in Los Angeles, has

been there since 2006, and previously served as Deputy Executive Director

of Planning and Government Affairs.

He's a friend of mine and has been on the podcast in the past.

And Chris Pangilinan who works in New York City.

He currently is Chief of Operations Planning to MTA, New York City Transit,

but in his previous role, Chris oversaw MTA paratransit system, and prior

to that, he held a number of roles in government and private sector.

He's going to talk about what they're doing in New York

City, the largest transit and paratransit operation in the nation.

They operate 40,000 passenger trips a day on paratransit, far and away the largest.

And then of course, my good friend Eileen Collins Turvey she's on a mission to build

the best paratransit program in America.

She's Director of Accessible Transportation Programs for

Portland, Oregon based TriMet.

She's responsible for the leadership and daily operation of the paratransit

services for the 533 square mile.

TriMet service district.

And today they talk about what they're doing, how they're utilizing

TNCs to improve their service and all kinds of other exciting things.

If you're interested in paratransit and how to deliver it effectively and

efficiently, this program is for you.

Stay tuned as we dive now into the conversation with these three top leaders.

Chris, thanks for being with us from New York City, Andre from L.

A.

and Eileen from Portland, one of the most innovative cities in America

when it comes to providing public transportation and paratransit.

Thank you all for being here today.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah.

Excellent.

Chris, let's start with you.

so you, you're now the chief of operations planning but in your

past role, which you just left a few months ago as vice president of

paratransit, that's a pretty big program.

Is it the biggest paratransit program in America?

Do you think?

Yeah, absolutely.

We carry now close to 40, 000 trips per day, which is an incredible number of

travel that we provide to people with disabilities, day in and day out, 24 7.

So yeah, very big system, and, providing a lot of service for the city of New York.

Alright, now we'll go over to Los Angeles and talk to Andre.

Andre, tell us about your system and your service there.

Well, Access Services is a pretty unique entity.

We are one of the few coordinated paratransit systems in the United States,

so we serve all of Los Angeles County.

And we provide ADA paratransit service on behalf of 46 fixed

route agencies in the county.

So we provide ADA paratransit services on behalf of Metro all the way down to

a Foothill Transit, Long Beach Transit, Santa Monica's Big Blue Bus, etc.

And many smaller cities as well.

We've just surpassed our pre pandemic ridership.

We're up to about 12 to 13, 000 trips a day.

we're not doing nearly as many trips as our friends in New York.

But, we are, I think, by ridership, the second largest paratransit,

entity in the United States.

You've got, I've seen it, I've been there in person and seen your

operation, and it is fantastic.

LA is such a spread out area, and the, the, The large service area you have

and the amount of jurisdictions that you cover is just unparalleled, I think, man.

Amazing work there.

We'll dive in in a few minutes where you kind of, you can describe some of

the great programs you have, but suffice it to say, it is a massive operation.

And I think I mentioned, I'll be up there in a couple of weeks, so I can't wait

to be there and see you in person again.

Great.

Eileen Collins Turvey my good friend, who last year you and I did an event, and

you operate the system there in Portland.

Tell us about it.

Yeah, so TriMet's paratransit system called LIST, serves the 533 square

miles of TriMet service district.

We have about 12, 000 eligible riders.

We're doing about 3, 400 trips per day right now.

We were close to 4, 000 pre COVID, so we're rapidly in the last year

really making big inroads to getting back to those numbers, and I think

some of the new programs that we're launching are helping to find the new

ways that we're connecting our riders into their communities and, and, you

know, We'll talk more about that today.

And so much of what we're doing in accessible transportation is really

working to build bridges within our organization to improve the accessibility

of all of our systems, helping connect our riders to better lives, making

sure that everyone can get the service that they need when they need it.

from really, an equity standpoint, so it's not about continuing to strive for ADA

minimums, it's about how can we go above and beyond to meet our riders where they

are, and if it means that we're delivering a service to a rider instead of a rider to

a service, we're really looking at that as the new hallmark in mobility management.

Wow, I love that.

What a great, what a great way to say that.

I think, most of our listeners who are involved in, are involved in the public

transportation world, they understand the Americans with Disabilities Act.

It was passed over 30 years ago.

They created a new civil right for people with disabilities.

But as you said, I think we're beyond that now.

and most transit agencies realize that You know, me as a former CEO in Baltimore,

but also having run paratransit for WMATA for five years under contract

when I was with MV Transportation and starting out my career, you know,

working for a Department of Aging, it really is about they, the people that

we're providing transportation for are sometimes our most vulnerable customers.

And so we have to make sure they provide our best.

Best service.

They get our best service because, it's what you said on

equity, they need it the most.

So we should give the gold plated service.

Now, the question is, how much does gold plated service cost, and that's why

transit agencies are looking to other options, to provide the best quality of

service, but maybe at a more efficient price, using services that are already

out there, and that's, I mean, I remember my time at MTA 10 years ago, when I

was CEO, we were talking to Uber and Lyft at that time, because we knew that

outsourcing some of our paratransit services, especially, would be key to

our financial ability to continue to provide the services that we wanted to do.

What do you do there, Chris, in New York?

Tell us about some of your programs you're using, the TNCs that are out there

and the taxi cabs and other companies.

Yeah, so we've been using TNCs and taxi cabs in the New York area to help

both improve service and provide a cost effective way to provide service.

In New York City, we are blessed with a couple things that many

cities not necessarily do have, which is a very robust taxi and TNC

network, which a lot of New Yorkers rely on to get around the city.

as well as a lot of wheelchair accessible vehicles within that network, which

further bolsters the availability of this network to all New Yorkers.

So at paratransit, we've been able to take advantage of that to provide nearly

70 percent of our trips these days on the TNC and for hire vehicle taxi network.

That is both done on an on demand basis, but also the vast majority of it is

through the standard ADA paratransit service, which is next day service,

as prescribed by the ADA regulations.

Even though it is next day, it does provide customers with the ability to

use a sedan if they're able to, and also, or use a wheelchair accessible

vehicle, getting them to where they need to go, as well as providing the

agency a much more cost effective manner to provide that service,

which is excellent for both parties.

but they're really, I think a really innovative side that these days that

we're working on is the e hail program, which provides this on demand service,

just like anybody that would use an Uber or Lyft app in any other city,

be able to call their ride on demand.

And I think, you know, we just said there, mentioning about civil rights,

and Eileen mentioned this, you know, about this, this topic, that we do

want to get above and beyond what the minimum prescription is from the ADA.

And I think this concept of on demand paratransit is a

big step in that direction.

And I think as an industry, we are now wrestling, of course, with how

to provide this service the best way.

And that still remains cost effective for the consumer as well as the agency.

Yeah, I mean, let's get real.

The cost to provide paratransit, ADA paratransit, in many cities now

exceeds a hundred dollars per trip when utilizing directly operated vans

from the agency, and the cost increases each year that I'm hearing about are

six to ten percent increases in that cost a year, and it is Many leaders are

telling me, Paul, it's unsustainable.

You know, I've got a budget of, let's say, $100 million, and it's

one eighth of my passengers, but it, you know, or one fortieth of my

passengers, but one eighth of my budget.

And so, you know, we can't keep doing this.

And so, these kind of alternatives, Andre, are a way to kind of help

provide more cost effective service.

Is that what you're experiencing?

Yeah.

Paul, similar to New York, ACCESS has historically used taxis to provide a

large part of our service, so, you know, it's very cost effective, you don't have

fixed labor, or capital costs when you use taxis, and, you know, when it comes to

meeting all of the federal requirements, our taxis have long accepted that in

Los Angeles County, so pre pandemic, I would say taxi cabs were providing

about half of our paratransit trips.

And because of the effects of the, the pandemic, we're down to maybe 35%, but

it, it, as the taxi industry returns, we're seeing increased participation in

the paratransit program in Los Angeles.

So our, I guess our, our secret sauce for excellence service, it's

relatively low cost has always been the use of the taxi industry, but.

We've also looked at TNCs as well, because, you know, I think as paratransit

entities, we have to look at where are we going to find additional capacity to

handle the demand in the coming years.

So we're already using Uber for our rescue rides.

So we've traditionally used taxis for rescue rides, but we've

also integrated Uber into that.

So if a customer.

they, they don't meet up with their vehicle and they need a return trip

home, they can call our operations monitoring center and get, either a

taxi or an Uber to take them home.

So that's really helped, improve that program, but also coming out

of the pandemic, what we found was there was a labor shortage, like a

lot of agencies, and we were having a hard time handling capacity.

And so I think we decided to look at.

how can we experiment by using Uber?

And so we introduced a program in our southern region called AccessFlex, which

allows the contractor to use Uber, for some of their next day paratransit trips,

if the customer opts into the program.

And so we've been, we've been experimenting with that for the last

year as a pilot program, and we look forward to seeing how the results, how

it comes out in the wash, basically.

Eileen, let's unpack some of your services there in Portland.

So, we have historically, done about 90 percent of our service on TriMet

vehicles, operated by our, our contractor who's TransDev, that pre

COVID, we were, that was our 90 10 split, and the other 10 was a local

cab provider, and the, the pandemic didn't help them, retain operators.

So, as we started to rebound service, I think similar to what Andre was

saying, we've, we've been looking at how do we, as a leader in our market.

Help build the communal capacity because those same cabs were doing

non emergency medical transportation.

You know, they were partnering with other Medicaid providers.

So, when we were utilizing that capacity, it was limiting their ability to respond.

And as the largest provider in our community, we recognized that we

needed to leverage our role and bring new providers into the market.

So, we partner with UServ now Uber, Big Star Transit does our wheelchair

accessible vehicle capacity, additional capacity, and we still have a cab

provider, but they're much more limited in their ability to respond right now.

And in using Uber, we've really found, we have a program called Lift Plus that

allows our riders to opt in if they would like to receive an Uber for service.

we are about a year in now, and our riders love it.

They love getting trips with UServ and it's part of our plan

to get the same day service.

So that we can really assess what our rider appetite is

for on demand rides same day.

and we're about to roll something out at the end of this month, that will

be a commingled, microtransit, moving prior day paratransit rides onto

the microtransit service to leverage the capacity in one of the fastest

growing areas of our service district.

I noticed a lot of agencies are looking to do that.

How does that work when it comes to technology, Eileen?

How do you integrate all these different providers that you're utilizing,

you know, in your, to streamline operations and the customer experience?

Well, I'll just say for, for folks who don't have technology,

there's a way to do it manually.

But, you know, I've got eight, eight staff.

I hear 200 staff in New York.

We have eight people on my team who are leveraging this technology.

So, Trapeze is our technology platform, and we're currently integrating

TripBroker so that we can utilize the tools within the technology to

more efficiently route to our partner providers based on which programs our

riders have opted into, what type of mobility devices they might be traveling

with, so we can make sure and appoint them that they correct type of vehicle.

and because we're using TripBroker, that, that's what gives us the leverage

to take those prior day trips on the microtransit and move them across to our

vehicles to be performed and have all of the data, everything that we need for

reporting all in one, central location.

So we're really excited about the potential that that provides our program.

Hey, Chris, a follow up question to you might be, many of the programs

that you discussed today, I think, operate through what the Federal

Transit Administration, the FTA, calls their Rider's Choice Program.

could you talk to us about that, about working collaboratively with the FTA

to bring programs like eHale to life?

Absolutely.

Yeah, this, program that you described, essentially allows

customers when they have a choice between providers to the enables this

e mail type of program that we have.

And so we work collaboratively with our regional FTA administrator here in

New York City, and their offices right across the street from us, to ensure that

the way that we were running the e hail program, as well as all of our programs

at paratransit, were in compliance or are in compliance with the FTA regulations,

not just around drug and alcohol testing, but in general, and we were able to

get their stamp of approval before launching and continuing this program.

I think the key with that was ensuring we had good relationships, which we always

do with our FTA administrator locally, and just keeping them in the loop about

what the program entails, and how the program is evolving throughout the years.

And I think that's the great thing with an e-hail program that we've been

running is it's recognizing essentially that technology and this This way of

getting around cities absolutely is evolving and even though it did come

out what 15 years ago or so, it's still relatively new for the transit industry.

And so keeping up that partnership and keeping them in the loop as we evolve

has been critical for our success.

Andre, tell us about, the customer service, customer

satisfaction, on time performance that you're getting using TNCs.

I think, because of the mix we have with, our contractor employee vehicles,

taxis, and TNCs, that whole mix, we're getting, excellent on time performance.

in July, our standard is 91.

I believe we were at 93, 94 percent, which, you know, July is one of our easier

months with less demand, less traffic, et cetera, but that's an excellent result

for our customers, and it's reflected in our statistics as regards complaints, et

cetera, so, you know, just having a mix where, particularly with taxis and TNCs,

you can access this capacity, because as you know, I mean, with paratransit,

you have peaks and valleys throughout the day, And to efficiently serve those

peaks and valleys, it helps to have these non dedicated assets like taxis

and TNCs like Uber to service that kind of irregular demand during the day.

And that has really led to, you know, generally good paratransit

services in Los Angeles County and high customer satisfaction.

So, Andre, like you were saying, if they're not ready, when the van comes

to pick them up at the hospital, and you can't always predict this.

Then having them have to wait.

Totally, you get a rescheduled van to come there.

People could wait an hour sometimes after their appointment, maybe longer.

And so having a third party contractor available to do those rescue rides

or fit somebody in that you couldn't fit in comfortably into the rest.

Is that a, is that a, is that what you're saying, Andre?

That's one of the great ways you can utilize these TNCs.

Yeah, it's really a massive advantage, and I mean, Eileen was

talking about UServ we've certainly had conversations with them.

Our northern region contractor in the San Fernando Valley uses

a similar TNC called Silver Ride.

So, I think when we look at TNCs and paratransit service there are the more

dedicated TNCs and they have the more, I would say, on demand TNCs and taxis

and I think that's really the power or of using taxis and a system like Uber

is like if you press the button all of a sudden you've got this instantaneous

capacity that you didn't have before and that's very powerful and I think as an

industry We really need to, I know, we're experimenting, we really, I think it's

the future because we're going to need the capacity to provide these services.

We, we're almost out of time, but I rarely get the chance to

have three of the nation's top paratransit leaders on a call.

So I can't let you go without you telling me.

What else do you have planned for the future?

Where do you see paratransit going?

Andre, let's start with you.

You know, in LA County, we've really been focused on providing, high quality,

traditional, next day, ADA paratransit.

And I think we've, we've been, we've innovated on that.

And by introducing a suite of key performance indicators that really

go at the pain points of the customer experience, such as successfully long

trips, et cetera, we also have implemented a number of technology solutions, such

as our Where's My Ride app that allows people to, Both make a, you know, make a

reservation for their trip, track their trip, and then at the end of the trip,

similar to Uber and Lyft, rate their trip.

And that's been very, very successful at both increasing customer satisfaction

and also reducing the number of calls that our call centers get.

So it's a win on both sides of it.

So I think really the future of paratransit is going to be how do we

use, how do we use technology to really enhance the customer experience because

I think Uber and Lyft have shown how powerful that can be and we've emulated

that here in Los Angeles County.

That's great.

Thank you, Andre, for being a guest today and sharing all that stuff.

Amazing.

My pleasure.

Chris, how about you?

What do you see?

I know you've changed roles now.

You're in operations planning, but what do you see for the future?

Yeah, I think, you know, seeing what Eileen has built in TriMet

and What Andre is doing in LA, it's really going towards this idea of

revisioning what paratransit even is.

And I think we're seeing a recognition now that paratransit isn't just a ride on a

vehicle, but rather it's a way to connect people to what they need in the community.

And for people who use fixed route, it's obvious, right?

Bus and subway, railroad.

But for people who use paratransit, we're not locked into a model

necessarily of having vans take people around, you know, their cities.

Rather, a model like Instacart, where we are recognizing that people are

going grocery shopping, why not bring the grocery shops to them, right?

I mean, that was really, really innovative, I think.

and it's also the idea of using, you know, We're recognizing that people who

use paratransit also desire flexibility and spontaneity, just like people who

use fixed route service, or people who own vehicles, and the example, I think,

Paul, that you were talking about earlier, about someone who might be picking

somebody up at a medical appointment, Life is not on a schedule, right?

We all have things that come up, including medical appointments

that are not on schedule.

And designing a transportation system that allows for more flexibility,

the kind that taxis and TNCs and on demand service enables, I think it's

a great step in getting people with disabilities to the same place that

people who use fixed route are at, with that flexibility, that spontaneity, and

recognizing that we can empower them to take control of their transportation

by putting the decision making of when to take those trips in their hands.

Very powerful.

So I'm very excited about going into that future for

paratransit and for our customers.

That's great, Chris.

Thank you.

Great vision, man.

Eileen, Collins Turvey, give us your final take.

You've, you've got, you're the cleanup batter, as they say in baseball.

Take us home.

Well, I'd like to say to what Andre and Chris have both said, yes, and.

it's, it's about spontaneity.

It's about finding more, equitable, cost supports for our riders that

two times the full adult fare is not affordable for most riders.

So we're looking into how we can do a low income fare, prepare transit, I

think allowing same day service, looking more at that sort of delivery model.

We recognize off the top that one of the social determinants of health is

transportation and people being able to access their communities, but that I

also want to have that choice in there.

I have a choice every day.

I can use a delivery service.

I could use Uber to deliver food to me, I mean, not just groceries, but a meal.

I could, I could use them to return an Amazon package so I don't have

to sit and wait an hour and a half for my paratransit bus to come back

so that I can return one package.

I think it's about thinking outside of the box of traditional paratransit and

identifying what the rider needs are.

And helping connect them to those needs.

Andre, Chris, Eileen, this has been, insightful and inspirational.

Thank you for your leadership in the industry and providing services to

some of our most important customers.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of transit unplugged with our

special guests, Chris Pangilinan Andre Colaiace and Eileen Collins Turvey hi,

I'm Tris Hussey editor of the podcast.

We'd also like to thank the sponsor of this episode, Uber transit.

Uber Transit recently published transit horizons.

2.0.

The mobility evolution.

An industry position, paper, exploring how public private partnerships.

Can and have enhanced public transportation.

You can download the report at uber.com/transit horizons.

Or you can find the link in the show notes.

Coming up next week, we have Brandon Nurmi head of Arrowhead transit in Minnesota.

Talking about the critical role transit plays in rural communities.

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo at Modaxo.

We're passionate about moving the world's people and a Transit Unplugged.

We're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.