Jim I was just sitting here thinking about my journey as a

hospitality professional and how I would not be here if it wasn't for several

folks who saw my greatness before I did, before I even knew that like that

was possible, that someone actually believed in me so much that they would.

In, in a couple of cases, stake their jobs on it, which is scary because

very often what happened to me is they would come back and say, well, you're

not gonna believe what I did for you.

Like, what do you mean did for me?

And so today on this episode of turning the table, we wanted to talk

about hospitality entrepreneurs.

In general.

And also the, idea that it's kind of like a hero's journey.

And for those who don't know, Joseph Campbell was an author and he also

researched almost every single tale that's been told all the way back in history.

And one of the themes that kept, occurring was this idea of a hero's journey

in that, you know, there's a hero.

He's not aware of his powers.

He meets, a mentor.

The mentor shows him how to actually use that power to, to wield it responsibly.

And then in every hero's journey the, mentor must die.

In order for the hero to actually step into his greatness.

Wow.

And I, recognize in my own path that maybe you've had the same experience.

Jim, maybe folks listening to this can also name the person

that made it the pivotal.

Difference in their life.

I had 2 1, 1 gentleman's name was ed Jameson, and Mark Ciolko.

So I just wanted to name those so that folks who were listening to this

might wanna reconnect to that person that believed in them so much that

they were willing to put their ass on the line to coach and mentor them.

. If you're listening to this is the podcast and this is the first time you're

hearing this, just shout out their name.

Call 'em into the circle.

We wanna honor them.

We wanna celebrate them.

And we thought it would be a great opportunity to bring in one of our

favorite operators from Calgary.

Jeff Jameson, who's the principal of Hangry Panda Hospitality, which

I both, which I know about that.

And.

We'll get into you know, I will goad you into naming your mentors

as well as Jeff will do that because ultimately, if we're aware that someone

actually mentored us and stood for us then how do we pay that forward?

I guess is the theme of today.

So it's about reflection, it's about honoring those that got us here.

It's about how we show up to others.

And if you're at that stage where you're grateful for the help that

you've been given and you're curious on a way in which to pay that forward,

Jeff is one of the greatest examples.

So we're really happy to have him here.

And, do you want to name your mentor, Jim?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, for sure.

Well, there's lots, right?

And, you can look at that in lots of different ways, but from a business

perspective the, one that always comes to the forefront is a man named Jim Stewart.

It's funny, we connect on the phone still and do lots of things

together and, it's always, hi Jim.

Hi, Jim.

You know, funny, completely still do this, awkward this both named Jim.

We should come up with a nickname or something, so it's not quite so strange.

But yeah, he's been a mentor of mine since I was probably, I don't know,

19 years old or something like that.

It's a really long time.

So fantastic.

So let's, that's a good story.

Let's celebrate him.

Let's celebrate Jeff, the journey that he's been on.

I think listeners will get a lot out of his story.

In particular that pivot point where he came to a decision that.

He understood that he could do things better and, then put his ass

on the line and put others asses on the line in pursuit of that dream

because all of us are, coming to this conclusion out of Covid that

maybe, there's something more for us.

Maybe there's something else that we can do.

Maybe there's a way that we can be in service to others, whether that's running

a restaurant and providing an excuse for folks to come around a table and

be in relationship with one another or.

Building a staff and mentoring them so strongly that you become

a permanent fixture in their mind.

So thank you.

Thank you, Christin.

That's brilliant.

Kristen.

Kristen just wanted to chime in and say Hi, Jent.

My mentor is Michael Seznik so Michael Seznik, we salute you.

And I know Cristen's working really hard at.

Paying that forward.

So thank you very much for naming him and we'll get into a lot of that

and more right after these messages.

Welcome to Turning the Table, the Most Progressive Weekly podcast for

today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff centric operating

solutions for restaurants in the hashtag new hospitality culture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark 60 and Adam Lamb as they turn the tables on

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Thanks for joining us and now onto the show.

This episode is made possible by e vocalize.

E VOCALIZE makes complex local digital marketing push button easy for anyone.

Empower your franchises with programs that automatically optimize performance

and program spending across Google, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.

All from one, easy to use collaborative marketing platform.

To find out more, go to Turning the table podcast.com/e vocalize.

And we wanna welcome Jeff Jameson to the show founder, to Jeff.

Good, see you.

Founder brand builder, restaurateur, retailer of

fine wine, beer, and spirits.

Founding board member of the Alberta Hospitality Association

and just all around great person.

A great person, not only to have on the show, but certainly to work for.

So welcome Jeff.

Thank you.

That's a lot of sunshine right there.

That is right.

I really appreciate that.

Well, right now in Asheville, you know, we've had a series of, thunderstorms

come through in the last several days, so it's currently raining.

So a little bit of sunshine right now is well worth it, man.

Well, thank.

And then in my experience with, you, Jeff, I think you're I think you're

gonna bring a lot of sunshine and probably some action and some excitement

that's, you know, unpredictability and whoever else to the conversation.

So looking forward to that also.

Now, Jim, weren't you telling me right before we got on the show that you and

Jeff have been kind of like in like, Circling one another for quite a while.

I've known one another, spent a little bit of time one another, but certainly this

is a great opportunity to do a deep dive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he's not an unknown property to you or the show?

He's not, yeah.

I mean, Jeff and I, don't even know.

We probably met in 2016 or something like that.

I was living and working in Calvary in the market that Jeff operates in and you know,

had a couple of social interactions here and there and, you know, went to an event

or two together and that kind of thing.

But we were actually competitors at one point.

We were, you know, in the restaurant business working against each other,

I guess in one way or another.

But, you know, I always have kept an eye on Jeff, and it's good

to have you on the show here.

I always, and I made sure too to touch base with Jim.

I mean, obviously we were fast friends even though we

perhaps were in competition.

But we have similar I guess views on life.

Which is how I ended up here.

Right.

That's true.

So Jeff, can you kind of give us kind of the thumbnail sketch of your journey Yeah.

Into hospitality, into entrepreneurship your hero's journey, the mentors

that, that perhaps shifted the entire trajectory of your life.

Let us, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, man, we so I, first stepped into a restaurant at about 16 years old.

In Regina, Saskatchewan what is essentially amounts to a small town it's

a large town, I guess you could say.

And, you know, instantly fell in love with it.

I had friends that worked in this restaurant and we you know, they loved

what they did every day, even at that age.

And, so I was just hungry to get in there and I, basically begged for, that

first job, which was setting tables and, washing dishes and instantly.

I just loved the structure.

It was a really run place, and we're gonna get into that, I'm sure, down the road.

And, so I just fell in love with the industry and worked

my way up through there.

And I did take a, brief hiatus from the restaurant industry in the I guess mid

two thousands after coming to Calgary to open a restaurant with the group.

It was the Earls group.

So we opened up the Salt Lake Steakhouse here.

I ended up running it for a few years and then I, took a hiatus.

I was a little burnt out and I went into an office environment here in oil and gas.

It's kind of the thing to do in Calgary.

End up in, in oil and gas office.

But I found my way back I ended up opening up a retail wine store

with a business partner while still working in oil and gas in 2012.

So that was V Arts, wine and Spirits, and that was my first

foray into entrepreneurship.

And then, In 2015, we opened Proof Cocktail Bar, which was I'm back

into the hospitality industry.

And that went, those both obviously went very well for us.

We opened our second location of Vine Arts, wine and Spirits,

the retail store on 17th Avenue.

In 2016, we opened our first, I guess full service restaurant style,

hospitality business in 2017, late 2017.

In Donna Mac restaurant and we're just opening hopefully in three to four weeks.

You know, if everything goes well which it has been so far.

We're gonna open our third location of Vine Arts Swine

and Spirits in, in Edmonton.

Congratulations.

Oh, thank you.

It's very cool to see that you're on the grow again.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously Covid put the brakes on everything.

I think there's a lot of smart operators that had a lot of.

Backing financially that like saw it as an opportunity.

I, saw it as an opportunity too, but I didn't have the, cash to

make those moves during that time.

And here in ca in Calgary, some operators like really leaned into the fact

that they're like, well coming outta this, we're gonna have to be you know, pumping.

And the Concord Group here opened a couple of really good concepts really

close to Covid and and, I think they're seeing success because of it.

Because you hit that wave of like, people just like, I wanna get out and I

wanna try something new, like I'm free.

And and yeah there was a lot of pretty positive movement

towards those those new spots.

So if you had the dough, yeah.

But yeah we're, happy to be we settled ourselves after Covid and

we're, happy to be growing again.

For sure.

Question for you about, I mean, for those that haven't been

to either Calgary or any of.

Of Jeff Spots.

I mean, Donna Mac is a fantastic restaurant and proof is one of

the best cocktail bars around.

I mean it's, a home run.

Yeah.

I don't think I've ever asked you this before.

How, what was it that got you into the, retail side of things first?

How come you went there first it was my business partner, so I, split

all of the businesses, 50 50 with my business partner, Jesse Willis.

So when I went into oil and gas I was looking for kind of a, an outlet to stay

adjacent to hospitality cuz I really love the people and I love the, atmosphere.

And so, and I also needed to really reduce my costs on my, drinking.

So I got, a, part-time job at a local wine store, Ben 9 0 5.

And there was a bunch of incredibly intelligent wine people

at that particular location.

At the time, it was the boutique wine store in the city.

I think if you were a wine geek.

There's two Metro Vno and that one.

And so I got to meet some incredible people.

And my business partner Jesse, at the time, was in his mid twenties and he

said, Hey, like, I would really like to open a wine store at some point, and.

We basically decided to kind of chase that down.

I, I had run businesses in the past and I was like, this can't be too hard.

I mean, I've run restaurants and that basically means I could run anything.

So I, we started Unru.

So we we started to look into that.

I was, I would say about 2009 we started to kind of scratch the surface.

It wasn't until 2012 that we finally got the doors open.

But that was kind of what, got it started.

And then the entrance back into hospitality was kind of a funny thing.

It was always in the back of my mind that I was sitting on some skills

that were I wouldn't say being wasted, but perhaps being underutilized.

Obviously lots of those skills were being utilized in the corporate world

that I was attempting to, climb, but I knew that we had the ability,

if something came up in the future to kind of utilize those skills.

And in 2014, I guess our landlord where V Arts was, like, Hey,

listen, the corner units coming up there's nobody else in the building.

So do you want the entire.

Base retail units and expand V Arts, and we're like, no, that would be

dumb because we're very happy with the rent we're paying in this small space.

And but we had been traveling quite a bit into the states.

We had made our first trips to.

Kentucky and Nashville, and we'd gone to New York and we'd spent

a lot of time in Portland at the time, which was amazing at the time.

I know it's had its problems recently, but it was really the head of the underground

American food scene at the time.

And so we were seeing some really cool things that we didn't see in Calgary.

And so we're like, you know, I think there's an opportunity

here for a proper cocktail bar.

Calgary did have some offerings at the time.

Milk Tiger, legendary kind of cocktail dive bar concept which sadly

just recently closed was, oh, no.

Great job at the time.

But we wanted to elevated a little bit and we opened proof in 2015 and it was

gangbusters, right, right out of the gate.

We had some really good operators Tony m who's gone on to.

Open d o p here in town, which is rave reviews as well as pizza face concept.

So he was our original operator and Jesse and I had all the Jesse, the

experience on, the spirit side of things.

We obviously had access to really, good product because of our retail store.

So we opened with an extraordinarily impressive team.

A lot of spirits with a big impressive back bar.

A lot of hard to find stuff and it, it.

went big for sure.

And it's, intimate, right?

I mean, how many seats is it less than 50, right?

Yeah.

Like it's around 55 seats, so it's a tiny little bar.

We've gotten lots of accolades.

I don't pump my tires very often, but we've, been a lot of accolades.

We've been one of the top cocktail bars in the country for a lot of years.

Yeah.

And Adam, if you're ever in Calgary at Christmas, The Christmas popup

that they do is just, I mean, for lack of a better term, just magical.

Love it.

And so Jeff on your trajectory, on your journey, your hero's journey into food

and beverage entrepreneurship who was it that stood for you and, let you know that

maybe you weren't crazy, maybe the ideas that you had merit and should, like who

was your biggest cheerleader at that time?

Well, there's a number.

And by the way, I just wanna segue that I love this subject matter and

I, love bringing up Joseph Campbell.

I'm a big fan of Joseph, Campbell.

And Joseph Campbell developed a lot of his theories probably from what was his name?

The the guy that studied under why Can't I?

It's, not coming to me, but the idea that you do the hero has to die.

It is a great thing because it's not the, hero necessarily that's dying.

It's a part of the hero or the old hero, right?

Like the, old person.

Right.

And so like, burning away that former self and finding a new self Carl Young finding.

Yes, exactly.

The pressure's on when the camera's on.

There you go.

You can't come up with any.

But and I really res that really resonates with me and I think that

everybody Well, hopefully everybody does it at least once in their lives

where they just kind of burn away the old self and, try and recreate

themselves in a meaningful manner really.

If you're really stepping forward and moving forward in your life,

I think you're doing it all the time.

Multiply, like you're, leaving that behind.

You're moving forward.

So love the subject matter.

I'm excited to talk about it.

There, there's a lot and I, wanna focus pretty heavily, I guess

on the initial the, first sure.

And he was his name was John Fraser.

So he ran the Earls in Regina at the time.

He was the one that hired me when I came in begging for a job.

I had to come in twice.

I didn't get hired the first time.

And I came back and I was like, look like I'm gonna work super hard.

And if I don't work super hard, you can just, can me.

I don't, you know, like, I mean it's I, don't care.

Like, because I know that I'm gonna be able to contribute.

Right?

And he liked that.

And he brought me on and he was a mentor in a very subtle way.

He, it wasn't a very active mentorship from him.

It wasn't like like let's sit down and talk about philosophy.

Sure, yeah.

He just was, his integrity was unquestionable and you

could recognize it right away.

And you saw the things that he did for that business which he

did not own, but he acted as if he did like no one I've ever seen.

And he just brought integrity to the job and to.

And it showed, or obviously it trickles down through the staff.

Jim had commented on a picture I had posted a few months ago on

LinkedIn, and it was not the original staff that I got hired into, but

the staff from a few years after.

And they really, truly were some of the, greatest it was one of the greatest

teams that I had ever worked with in.

That was because of John.

He just and it wasn't demanding, right?

Like he, showed you why it was important to act with integrity, put

the customer first to have a sense of teamwork to all put in and contribute.

And that will have a really good time and, the greater good will move forward not

just for the business, but for all of us.

If we do that.

And it stuck with me like forever.

And I, look back on it you know, as one of those things that's truly like it,

you cannot possibly put a value to that.

I can't imagine how many people in our industry, unfortunately, and in all

industries, but I, only have, you know, reference points for our industry, but

that walk into their first hospitality job and it's, just, it's a nightmare.

And, you know, like I can see why people would shift in and out of

this industry or, just use it as a piggy bank to support other parts

of their lives or things like that.

When you don't have leaders quite like John who who, really ingrained

that and, that kind of leadership you know, it works its way down the line.

Another mentor of mine was Jacqueline who.

Worked directly with John for years.

And she ended up being my gm restaurant leader at the before

I came out to, Calgary as well.

And I mean, she, same thing, just like made it very clear everybody

understood what their role was.

Everybody understood not only what their role was operationally, but

what their role was as a team member.

As a support system within the restaurant you had better be, you know, moving

yourself forward in some manner, whether it was like you're learning of the menu

or your personal or professional goals and those things have really kind of carried

their way into my businesses for sure.

And it's because of that first initial impact.

Are there any are there any specific conversations with either of those mentors

that you remember that stand out that, you know, Adam and I have had a couple of.

These discussions in the past on, episodes about some of these for

me for sure, and some for him.

But are there any, you know, messages or conversations or

anything that stand out that you're like, I will never forget that?

Yeah, like, I mean, with John for sure, he was very clear that you know, the only

way to, be successful is to have people that we're gonna be doing everything.

Right.

Right.

And so And I mean, I think that was a lot of the philosophy of the

The business at the time as well.

Sure.

They were leaning hard into that, but John embodied it for sure.

And yeah, I mean we had many conversations about like, look, if

you want to take this seriously, Billy, he called everybody Billy.

I think it was like,

I think it was so that, you know, Because he would forget people's

names, not staff ever, but so many customers would come through that place.

He'd just like, Hey, Billy, grab a seat.

You know?

So, oh gosh, if you really wanna do this you're gonna need support.

And that support is not necessarily gonna come from me.

It's gonna come from underneath you.

And and, when we first moved into the bar managing position there

that was a lot of his advice.

And it was difficult because I was working with.

And I think one of the reasons this conversation came up is because

I was working with bartenders who had far more experience than I did

behind the bar, older than me by, you know, probably quite a bit.

Five years at the least.

Yep.

And and it was about getting those people on your side, right?

You know, you may feel like they see you as a twerp, but and a pain in their ass.

But you have to find a way to get them on your side because if they're

not on your side, you're gonna fail.

No matter how good you are you're gonna fail.

So he was very big on that kind of educating everybody.

So that you had this support system from beneath and, yeah.

You know, it's funny, I don't think about a lot of the

individual conversations I had.

Jackie and I had a lot of conversations.

We were very friendly.

I'm, very close with her family.

Her younger brother Paul was the best man at my wedding my first wedding.

And there's a friendship thing there.

But.

You know, she was exceptional at separating you know, work and friendship.

And not in a, not in an uncomfortable way either.

Right.

Like just, you know, this is our job here.

This is the job we have to get done together.

I'm glad that, we're teammates.

Yeah.

And we'll be friends after.

You know, those were a lot of the I guess, positive impacts those two had for sure.

Very cool.

Yeah.

That friendship at work thing, I mean a, message that I always got from one

of my mentors was he always used to say, I don't come here to make friends.

You know that statement, right?

Yeah.

But then he would always follow it up with, we might end up being friends,

but I'm not coming here to find friends and this is my career and my business.

And, you know, he was an, he was the owner of the place, so he, would always

make sure that message was very clear.

We might end up being friends and, we might, you know,

I have a beer one day, but I'm not here to make friends, so let's keep

this professional kind of thing.

Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think it's really important.

And I mean, I get close with A lot of my managers and I mean, I don't think I

have, and I have what would be friendly relationships with a lot of the managers.

But you do have to have a separation of work and pleasure always.

And I, think that it's important and I think that honestly, whether

it's recognized early on in the relationship as you move down the

road, it's appreciated because it's very difficult to mentor somebody who

You have a friendly relationship with.

It's possible to carry those relationships forward.

But, you know, it's very difficult.

Yeah.

I mean, friendships are very much reciprocal.

Right?

Right.

Whereas there's a power imbalance in a mentoring relationship that that.

It doesn't necessarily exist in friendships.

It's hard to, it's hard to switch those on and, all right,

very true.

There was somebody who posted a comment to the LinkedIn event

announcement and made the comment that what a great topic and how apropos

because isn't this what happens to, you know, most culinary professionals and so

just to, for those of folks who are not necessarily aware or up to speed or don't

give a shit about this idea of masculine archetypes there's both immature and

mature insofar as that work continued through book called king Warrior,

magician, lover and I, the, but the idea is that, you know, there's an imprint

that we're born with and that they're.

Evolutions of our emotional states as we grow older.

And it's funny to note that the hero is actually the final

iteration of the immature.

And that, as you said, Jeff, at not only do our mentors have to die, but also

the hero has to die in order for the mature masculine warrior to show up.

And that's typically an area that's kind of gray because.

Most of my time later on in my career was about modeling and

mentoring mature professionalism.

Like one of our dear friends chef Ryan Dodge said, you know, we do a really

crappy job at communicating effectively to potential associates or folks coming

into the industry that, you know, there's certain things that you can rip, right?

You can make a great omelet.

A hundred times.

300 times.

That's, a skill.

And yet there are certain aspects of being a true hospitality

professional that won't ever come until you actually become mature.

Like it's, the we instead of the me.

It's it's like passing on praise and taking on the hits.

And so this whole idea of like the hero's journey is fantastic.

And it's wise to understand that's what we're going through.

But that's only half the journey.

So typically now the Wizard shows up and the wizard is all about

mentorship, secret knowledge, right?

Of initiation, which as a chef, I always thought like, yeah, I've worked

for chefs that I'd have to look over their shoulders to see what the hell

they were doing in the bowl, right?

As they're whisking it.

And they wouldn't even, and their shoulder would raise even higher.

Higher.

I'm like, I'm gonna have to work harder, man to fucking figure

out what he's doing right here.

And so as you have matured how have, like, how have you become a mentor to others?

Yeah.

Well and, that's that's an interesting way to go if my

wonderful wife is watching this.

She's like, I'm still waiting for the hero to die

Because the hero's fun.

Right?

Sure.

I still have a little bit of jester in me for sure.

Yes.

No, I, and it is a struggle.

It's a struggle.

I mean, if I'm being completely honest, it's a, it's, it is something

that pops in and out, right?

Like Oh, before we hopped on this call, I was telling you like I just

went through stampede here in Calgary and like, you know, that's a time I

like to go and have a bunch of fun.

But I think that you know, that mentor starts to knock on the door towards the

end of Stampede and say like, Hey man, like, what's going on with your businesses

while you're out here doing all this?

Right?

And it's funny I'll share a story.

The Saturday, last Saturday at Stampede.

I had gone, you know, out from Tuesday to Friday and I was in

some of the businesses, but mostly socializing and, bringing people in.

And I sent a, note about labor to my two managers at the restaurants

just being like, Hey, listen, like.

We gotta get on top of this.

Like there's a few things that we're certainly not doing and, I

wanna maybe talk about instituting a few organizational things that's

gonna help us solve some of these problems that we're going through.

And we really gotta, we really gotta figure this out.

And I, came in to my restaurant here and Julie, my fantastic general

manager here at Donna Mac was like, So the email, I was like, yeah.

She's like, how much anxiety did you have when you sent that?

About like, and I was like, I did have a lot, but that doesn't change

the fact that the points are true.

We got, and it was all just me, you know, kind of like looking back and

saying like, holy, I'm focused away from the businesses I need to refocus.

Right?

And so like, there's this interplay between the, mentor

and the, proper leader.

And the kind of slipping out and still being the guy that is relaxed

and chill and the whole night.

So I'm not, I know that I'm not completely there yet all the time, but I try and

be as much as humanly possible and I try and mentor the managers that we have.

I think one of the, big things that I've learned is from mentoring and I

mean this was a hard one for me to learn because I always wanted to be, have my.

Fingers in all of the business, like all over all levels, you know,

being that guy that was sitting down with even the, dishwasher or

the new back bar back or whatever.

And like and it's kind of diminishing returns, right?

Like, so what I've tried to do over the last few years is like, get my handful

of leaders, get my managers, and just like really focus on bringing them along.

And so the, mentoring now is a greater amount to each individual.

And so I'm working very closely with the general managers and, the managers of the

wine stores and just trying to get them to a point where they become the ones

that are mentoring those beneath them.

And it's, it seems to be working.

You know we, have very, good retention here.

Across all of our businesses which is crazy for our industries.

Yeah.

Tail.

Katie, who's one of our managers, our longest serving employee

who's just going on mat leave here has been with us for 10 years.

I think in my two GMs, who I personally hired both of them when I was in a

period of time when I was running proof.

They've been with me for six years.

So we've and I find a lot of that retention comes from, and I

mean, Jim, I don't have to, I'm preaching to the guru on this.

But a lot of that retention comes from the fact that you have to recognize,

people want to be challenged.

They want to feel like they're moving forward.

They want to have goals, they want to achieve goals.

Those are the things at the end of the day that give people meaning, Chase

happiness, try and chase meaning and and kind of mentorship is, something

that I continually speak about with, my managers, is like, look like this job

will be happy for you, but we're not gonna focus on what makes it happy for you.

We're gonna focus on you, go home and feeling like you have meaning in your

job because then you're gonna be happy.

So amazing.

That's so good.

Six years for those two managers and a 10 year employee.

I mean, in any hospitality business is, I mean, yeah.

That's incredible.

Well done.

It's, great.

And, you know we suffer the same challenges that all

hospitality experiences.

Right.

You know, people come in and they go and but I, think that especially people

who have kind of done the rounds, In our industry, and this is an unfortunate

thing, and I gotta say like Jim in, I mean I'd love to hear your opinions on this.

I think it is getting a lot better, like I've been in this industry for 20

years and the, types of things that are occurring with regards to development

and mentorship in our industry, it's getting way, I experienced it.

Luckily, you know in the late 1990s but I was one of few that

was experiencing it at that time.

Now, I think it's probably more, more common than uncommon.

And I'm so grateful that's the case because

Yeah.

It, you know, I guess rising tide lifts all, lifts, all boats.

What's your take on just in terms of this whole mentorship thing?

I mean, we hear a lot of people.

Talking about the Gen Z thing.

Like the Gen Zs, you know, they're lazy.

They don't wanna be, they don't wanna work, they don't wanna

work in restaurants, they don't wanna work, restaurant hours they

don't want, and all this stuff.

I've got into some good, interesting, almost even heated discussions

because I believe that Gen Z's gonna best be the best thing that's ever

happened to the restaurant industry.

But what's your specific take on the, from a mentorship, do they still want that?

You know, like, Hey, someone bring me along and show me some things

and teach me and challenge me, and you know, what's, what do you see?

Where do you see that shifting?

I love Gen Z I think I mean, we have some fantastic examples around our

spots of gen Z you know, and I mean, not to generalize because, you know, people,

individuals are individuals and Sure.

But I think that we took a bit of too far of a pendulum swing.

And, they're the correctors, like I think that they.

See through some of the bs around you know, this I guess push of

anti-capitalism, if you wanna call it anti-capitalism, that the millennials

maybe suffered from a little bit too much.

I think that they see the reality of the situation, whereas there can

be balanced between there can truly be balanced between making money

and and having a, good home life.

I think that the millennials got into and again, generalization, but I think

we saw a generational thing with that age group that was very your employers

or your oppressors to a certain degree.

And that was kind of, Prevalent in that sort of, in, in the society at

that time as they were coming up.

But I don't see that as much with this younger crowd.

Like people in their early twenties.

They seem to be engaged.

I'm really hoping it feels like, and I mean this is anecdotal.

I don't have any, I don't have any evidence to point towards it, but

it feels like we had a, just a, in people considering this, a career for.

It almost felt like a decade like it was very difficult to

find people that you bring up.

But it's starting to shift a little bit and it's becoming

people are more open to it.

I think a lot of that probably has to do with how we've structured pay and Sure.

You know, gotten benefits to, people and management and, in

some cases across the board.

And there's been some things that have brought our industry

into a, legitimate Career path kind of, you know so it's that.

But I think also socially it's, yeah, they're looking for things that aren't

necessarily office corporate job type job.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm bullish on this generation plus you know, we see obviously

people coming from other countries, especially in this country, a lot

those people largely tend to be.

We're here to work.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, we're here because we were leaving a bad situation and we

wanna show that we can make it here and we wanna make it for our kids.

We wanna make it for our family.

And so there's a large group of, new immigrants coming to this country that

are also just like the work ethic is through the roof, and they want meaning

and they want structure as well.

So, yeah, no, I see a lot of positives.

How, do you see it?

Like, are you seeing the same we're, in three different markets here, right?

Is it the same thing?

So I actually have a comment and a question if I could, Jeff.

So the other thing that I've noticed is that these folks are

actually looking for structure.

They're actually looking for clear boundaries.

They're actually looking for a, clearly defined sandbox in which they can play.

Given the fact that.

You know, you know, sometimes work is not play and sometimes work is work and

you know, we gotta do what we gotta do.

However they're looking for a seat at the table.

They wanna be involved in the discussion.

They don't necessarily ask to, to make the final decision, but they're very

impassioned about being able to have a space where they can be heard and valued.

And.

Right.

And my question for you is, when did you decide it would be good policy to let

your employees name your new restaurants?

Yeah.

Well that was a, business partnership that we had.

And I, you know what, at the time too, and I've shifted from this kind of outlook.

So we that would've been 2017, we were looking to get into a partnership with our

operators that were operating Donna Mac.

So we had and at that time I was running proof and we had just opened the second

vint and I had two very good operators.

So a chef and a general manager.

And it was a very collaborative, I was very collaborative at that time.

I was like well what are we gonna do with this place?

What's it gonna be?

And so these two operators came up with a bunch of stuff and one of the concepts

for, naming of it, because we were talking about a place that we wanted to have like.

Kind of elevated casual food, but it, feels like home cooking.

And and we've nailed that now.

It, it was a little bit rocky out of the gates, but the

concept was the red concept.

And our general manager and operating partner at the time was like, you know,

my grandmother her name, we call her Donna Mac she's like, really One of these.

Matriarchs that kind of feeds the neighborhood, right?

Like always has people, is always cooking, is always bringing people food.

I'd like to embody that in the restaurant.

And so I was like, that's great and it's a good story and absolutely let's

do it and let's move forward with it.

We had a bit of a disconnect and that was perfect.

And I mean, when, so we had a bit of a disconnect between the food

and that concept name at the time.

We had an extraordinary chef who is our chef at proof.

Prior, but there was just a bit of a disconnect that we didn't address.

I could've probably been a better leader at the time.

The food was great, but it didn't speak to the concept.

Coming outta Covid, we kinda reigned that in and I at the time because the concept

was just like creeping along, not doing anything positively not doing anything too

negatively, but covid hit and I was like, oh Lord, like what are we gonna do here?

So we had a decision point coming out of it, whether we were gonna like, Rebrand.

We didn't have a ton of cash, but we thought we could rebrand, but I believed

in it still at that point and I was like, you know what, no, it still fits.

I had some good advice from my general manager at the time who was like, I.

I think we should lean into it and and we can we had hired a

an incredible chef at that time.

Leticia Kinski LT went on to become the head chef at the Canadian

Consulate the embassy in what?

Yeah.

She's extraordinarily talented.

Lt.

If you're watching, I hope you're feeling better.

LT just had a bike accident.

Oh geez.

You've recovering from, but she's, Comprised of genius.

I, I don't mind saying and, she is a young but bright, star in, the chef game.

And so she's always gonna push things forward.

So she developed the food menu at that time.

And yeah it, and it, and we saw that coming Covid, we got a lot more attention.

It started to roll out.

LT took her job.

Kayla, her sous chef moved in, is doing a phenomenal job at

keeping that concept tight.

And it's been going well.

Amazing.

And did you know at the time that.

One of the one of the benefits of making that decision would be

that you would have a whole crew that was immediately bought in.

Yeah.

I mean, it is, I try and be super collaborative and

we are super collaborative.

I think it's important to know.

You want people to make their own mistakes, right?

Like they can't be mistakes that cost you the business.

You have to be extraordinarily careful about that.

And I don't think, I truly don't think that running by committee

is a good decision necessarily.

Sure.

But if you, and if you take the right people that you're confident

in, and then at some point you have to start to allow them to, kind of.

Carve out parts of the business for themselves.

We've had some successes and we've had some failures in that regard, but they

certainly are invested in the business.

The two well, the four operators that I have now in the restaurant, so the,

two general managers and the two chefs I have a hundred percent confidence in.

And we're at the point now where they just bring me and they completely run their

businesses, which I really appreciate.

We have ups and downs and everybody goes through a 12 month calendar year

where they got a month where they're just like, ah, I'm dragging ass.

You know what I mean?

Not doing anything.

But and we support each other in that regard.

But for the most part these four operators bring things to me

now and it's like, Hey, listen.

Here's what we'd like to do.

What do you think?

And then we just plan that out.

You know we're gonna do a popup at proof here, starting, I think

either next Sunday or the following.

That the team had proof completely developed.

Like literally they would keep me updated and I'd be like, well, you know, maybe

this, or Have you considered this?

Or We should change this.

But like, they completely developed it and it's gonna be like a, it's generated

to try and increase Sunday sales.

And you know, Callum and, AJ down there completely developed it.

Nick, the Cheff is getting into it.

And I'm excited for it.

Like, I think it's great.

And that was purely from the end.

They're gonna own that.

Right.

And, positively and negatively, you know, it's gonna blow up and it's

gonna have some great things and it's gonna have some things where we're,

that we're gonna be able to point to and say, okay, that didn't work,

and that's gonna be on them, right?

And.

That is super positive because they're gonna be able to say, I

know now that didn't, and I also know that I can't blame it on Jeff.

Or, you know, this, the other thing that's gonna help them grow as, leaders as well.

And 10 years from now, they might look back and say, Jeff gave me this really

opportunity, this guy that I worked for, named Jeff, gave me this opportunity to

try this thing and this is what I learned.

And.

Yeah.

And I hope that, that's very cool, right?

And I, do try and foster that collaborative attitude

as much as possible, but it just has to be kept in check.

And I think that the important thing with that, my brief stint in oil and gas was

negotiation and the negotiation's all about, like before you go into a thing.

Before you go into a negotiation, it's about setting your boundaries, right?

Like you've got your, greatest expectation versus your absolutely no movement

forward on a number of domains, right?

And you can negotiate those between those barriers and those

boundaries, those bumper zones, but you can't ever get outside of it.

And you know, like I, I think that this is, has a lot of similarities

and like, it's like, I'll see things that are suggested that I maybe

don't think that'll necessarily work.

I have my reasons that I don't think they'll work.

I'll vo I'll voice those reasons.

But I'm willing to also go forward with it because I don't think that

it's going to cost us too much.

I want to see whether it does work.

Maybe I'm wrong.

There's, I'm, I, you know, a lot of these people that work for me too now

are far more connected to the guest, to the industry trends and things that

are happening even than I am because I'm focused on a spreadsheet a lot of,

the hours of the day talking to lawyers and talking to bankers, and talking to

accountants and I have to trust them.

Yeah.

In, in certain areas.

So I'm happy to let them spread their wings and I'm happy to, you

know, let them succeed and fail.

And they also, you know, know, and I hope that they'll all agree that

they get to live those successes too.

I'm not the type of guy that's like, look what I did, put

all the work in so well, I,

I just want to be on record and say thank you.

For your courage to trust your people and to give them clearly

defined sandbox in which to play.

Yeah.

And I think that there's a lot of operators out there

who could learn from that.

And like you said, it's not always easy.

It's not always pretty.

And sometimes it's a little scary because when the, when there's a gap between the

performance and what the assumption or the expectation was, you know there's, work to

be done there, but it sounds like you are.

You're up for that work because that work actually not only empowers them,

but gives them some more tools in which to, again, now if there's another

event or another area that they wanna work on, now they're a little bit more

juiced as opposed to someone who's just gonna squash their enthusiasm and say,

well, shit, you know, if it didn't come from me, then it can't be any good.

Exactly.

And I think that gap is important.

Like, I think I can imagine any thing that we've ever rolled out that didn't have

that gap of expectation versus reality.

And you know, it's really important, we talk about this all the time.

Something exciting comes up and you're just like, and then

everybody's eyes brighten up and they're like, you know, even if

it's a dish, you're like, so relax.

This dish is not gonna save, the world here.

Like, but it's great.

You know, or we plan an event and we're like, you know, like, this

could, and like, let's take our wins, but also understand that temporary,

our expectations understand that we are going, there is a whole lot of

work outside of what we're currently planning that's gonna have to help along.

And I don't know, I just try and keep that interplay between motivation

and also managing expectations.

Even keel, let's say.

Again, thanks if nobody's told you in a long time.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Yeah, so great to see the stuff that you, guys are doing.

You know, and Jeff, obviously you've got your little, you know, growing

company, but you know, whether it's things on the board or, with terroir

or you know, other things that you're working on, just appreciate all the good

stuff you're doing for the industry.

Well, and I'll tell you too, it I, appreciate the Thank you.

And I gotta say as a, for advice for people who are in, I guess, a position

similar to mine I don't often hear that.

And it's because of where I'm isolated.

Where I am.

Right?

Right.

And so it is extraordinarily important to surround yourself with people

who recognize those things because you do like to hear that once in

a while and you also like to hear.

No, like that's not the right way to handle those things.

And so if you surround yourself with really good people, I currently am in

McKay forums, which is like a CEO forum.

Yep.

And it's been just extraordinary because for those two

things, I also have people saying, Hey, you know, like I have people

saying, Hey, you're doing a good job there, and that's the right direction.

But then I also, which I was sorely missing, There's people

saying lemme tell you about my experiences going down that road.

And and those are just extraordinarily valuable cuz you know, I try

and mentor as much as I can, but I also still require mentors.

I'm not pretending that I, know it all.

That's for darn sure.

I certainly don't.

I think that's a really good sort of wrap up message and

maybe a reason to even have you back again the next time we talk about.

Why entrepreneurs need a mentor.

You know, we might need, that might be the lead to, to have you back in

a few months on another episode cause that's whole another conversation.

I couldn't agree more.

And the fact is, that we're a little bit over time for this particular episode,

but Jeff, you had just so much value.

I run my guns a lot.

I'm sorry.

That's quite alright brother.

If, we had an issue, we'd just cut you off the knees.

But that's again, thank you very, much for sharing your story, your

perspective, your mentors names, bringing them into the circle so

that we can also acknowledge them.

And also thank you for stepping up for for mentorship because one of the other

things that I've come to understand that the new generation require is

that they're not looking for a leader.

They're not looking for a boss.

What they are, they're looking for a mentor.

And that means that we have to open our hearts wider than just being a leader.

Because a leading is easy.

Mentoring is hard.

Yet the lives that you're able to touch and bring value to and grow in

confidence, you know, they continue, they'll continue giving back to

this industry for a long time.

So for that, I, from the bottom of my heart, I say thanks.

Well, thank you for that.

I appreciate it.

And Adam, it's been great to meet you, Jim.

Hopefully I'll see you soon, Adam.

I'll try and get down to see you and play some golf maybe.

All right.

Thank you very much everyone.

Jim, any last word?

No, I just I, think there's just so many good messages there.

So Jeff, thanks again and yeah, definitely hope to see you in person.

Maybe we should try and get out and play golf one day here soon.

Cheers.

Thanks everybody.

Thanks for checking in and listening to another episode of Turning the

Table, and we'll see you next week.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table with

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better

by focusing on staff mental health, physical and emotional wellbeing.

By proactively measuring and managing staff workloads, join other hospitality

professionals co-creating the hashtag new hospitality culture by subscribing

to our weekly newsletter at ww dot.

Turning the table podcast.com/news.

In every edition, you'll find innovative solutions ready to test and validate

in your operation this weekend.

Plus listen to exclusive bonus content just for you.

Connect with us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram at Turning The Table Podcast.

If you found value in this episode, please consider leaving us a review

on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify.

Give us a star rating.

It helps other hospitality professionals just like you find the show.

Or better yet, grab the show link and share it with a friend or

colleague who you wanna see succeed.

Thanks for stepping in and speaking out for an industry craft and fraternity.

That serves us all.

Remember, retention is the new Cool y'all.

This podcast was written, directed, and produced by me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

Turning the table is a production of Realignment Media.