1 00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:04,320 So they might start out by falling into something, but then they might 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,240 realize, oh, hang on, hang on a minute. 3 00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:11,010 Why am I interested so much in this particular arena? 4 00:00:11,310 --> 00:00:13,350 What is it about this that drives me? 5 00:00:13,530 --> 00:00:17,670 And they might be curious then to go and dig more into the detail 6 00:00:17,675 --> 00:00:19,080 to understand about themselves. 7 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:20,480 Now, I, I. 8 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:24,919 Think it is pretty impossible to help others unless we have a deep 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,570 understanding about ourselves. 10 00:00:26,570 --> 00:00:30,049 And unless we've taken that time out to self-reflect and 11 00:00:30,049 --> 00:00:32,030 ask ourselves those questions. 12 00:00:34,820 --> 00:00:36,860 Welcome to Passion and Profits Without Burnout. 13 00:00:37,220 --> 00:00:38,420 I'm your host, Jacob Moore. 14 00:00:39,050 --> 00:00:43,910 I'm a speaker, coach, childhood suicide loss survivor and filmmaker who left 15 00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:46,370 Hollywood to follow my heart of service. 16 00:00:46,905 --> 00:00:50,565 I've helped tens of thousands of people find the balance in their 17 00:00:50,565 --> 00:00:53,805 life between passion and profits. 18 00:00:53,835 --> 00:00:58,185 On the show, I'm gonna teach you how to build a trauma responsive, 19 00:00:58,915 --> 00:01:04,245 resilient, and impactful community and organization, all without burning out. 20 00:01:04,995 --> 00:01:06,045 Let's get started. 21 00:01:10,795 --> 00:01:13,975 Well, hello and welcome to Passion and Prophets. 22 00:01:14,455 --> 00:01:22,710 I am joined today by Michelle Suk, who is, outside of Marsai, France, and, 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,110 a a place that I think is just quite lovely and can't wait to return to. 24 00:01:28,135 --> 00:01:31,605 Michelle, thank you for joining me and, and being here to share your expertise. 25 00:01:31,875 --> 00:01:33,105 Thank you for asking me, Jacob. 26 00:01:33,345 --> 00:01:34,035 Of course. 27 00:01:34,045 --> 00:01:39,605 this topic I think, is fascinating and one that is, I I think we could 28 00:01:40,055 --> 00:01:42,985 probably talk for hours and hours about it and, yeah, probably, and perhaps 29 00:01:42,985 --> 00:01:44,065 we'll get the chance to do that first. 30 00:01:45,535 --> 00:01:52,825 For today, I want to dig into, just starting with a definition, what 31 00:01:52,885 --> 00:01:56,215 is neurolinguistic programming? 32 00:01:56,665 --> 00:02:01,405 So, neurolinguistic programming is a, is a technique, Basically started 33 00:02:01,405 --> 00:02:07,025 by Richard Bandler and, it's, it was where they monitored and, and looked 34 00:02:07,235 --> 00:02:12,485 at the patterns that best, what they considered best practice therapists 35 00:02:12,845 --> 00:02:15,065 to be using in terms of their results. 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,300 So the results that they were getting were outstanding. 37 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,910 They wanted to understand why that might be the case. 38 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:21,329 they followed them. 39 00:02:21,329 --> 00:02:23,400 They looked at what they were doing, and they came up with these 40 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,030 series of tools and techniques that could be used with individuals. 41 00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:31,380 It's looks at the subconscious mind. 42 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:33,750 It looks at the way. 43 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,310 Patterns form in people's behaviors. 44 00:02:36,370 --> 00:02:41,380 It looks at their language in terms of how they might use their language, and 45 00:02:41,380 --> 00:02:44,890 then looking at all those things and putting them together, it, it helps a 46 00:02:44,894 --> 00:02:50,759 coach, guide and aid an individual to, improve the situation that they're in. 47 00:02:50,765 --> 00:02:54,359 Whatever situation that is, it's, it's a little frustrating for me 48 00:02:54,359 --> 00:02:58,979 that it's not, well, it's well known, but it tends to fall in two camps. 49 00:02:59,379 --> 00:03:00,489 people absolutely hate it. 50 00:03:01,214 --> 00:03:02,864 And people are, people absolutely love it. 51 00:03:03,414 --> 00:03:08,514 and I've, I've not come across, a huge amount of people that 52 00:03:08,514 --> 00:03:10,224 really know that much about it. 53 00:03:10,954 --> 00:03:14,284 and I think it's a real shame when you can, when you compare it to other 54 00:03:14,284 --> 00:03:16,624 therapies such as talking therapies. 55 00:03:17,249 --> 00:03:18,779 Cognitive behavior therapy. 56 00:03:18,779 --> 00:03:23,459 I think it really, it, it kinda earns its place alongside those, but it 57 00:03:23,459 --> 00:03:27,839 hasn't necessarily had the monetary investment behind it to investigate 58 00:03:27,844 --> 00:03:32,579 its efficacy and, and the, the outputs that individuals can make. 59 00:03:32,999 --> 00:03:34,229 So I hope that answers your question. 60 00:03:34,469 --> 00:03:34,799 Yeah. 61 00:03:34,804 --> 00:03:35,579 Very, very much. 62 00:03:35,579 --> 00:03:40,119 And so sort of, if I can crudely summarize, it is becoming 63 00:03:40,329 --> 00:03:46,389 consciously aware of what we are unaware of and understanding. 64 00:03:46,629 --> 00:03:54,249 How that subconscious programming really drives our behaviors, our, 65 00:03:54,249 --> 00:04:00,239 our actions, the, the things we say and what we really define as, us. 66 00:04:00,629 --> 00:04:01,019 Is that 67 00:04:01,079 --> 00:04:01,469 right? 68 00:04:01,489 --> 00:04:02,339 Absolutely. 69 00:04:02,489 --> 00:04:03,979 That's a perfect summary. 70 00:04:05,519 --> 00:04:09,509 So I'm curious then can, can you just share, because I. 71 00:04:10,464 --> 00:04:18,474 I really focus a lot on this idea of mindfulness and, being aware of, you 72 00:04:18,474 --> 00:04:23,104 know, my, my present circumstances, my thoughts, my breath, things 73 00:04:23,109 --> 00:04:24,455 of that nature, my surroundings. 74 00:04:24,814 --> 00:04:29,434 how does neurolinguistic programming differ from. 75 00:04:30,125 --> 00:04:32,015 Simply being mindful. 76 00:04:32,224 --> 00:04:34,625 Well, I think you can be mindful in the moment. 77 00:04:34,924 --> 00:04:39,695 I think I always thought I was mindful in the moment, as in I 78 00:04:39,695 --> 00:04:42,304 was present and future focused. 79 00:04:42,544 --> 00:04:44,515 I wasn't very, past focused at all. 80 00:04:44,515 --> 00:04:49,445 I, if you like, I had a bit of a delete, mentality where I didn't 81 00:04:49,445 --> 00:04:50,615 really think about the past. 82 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:51,785 I didn't dwell on the past. 83 00:04:51,785 --> 00:04:54,665 I was always thinking about the here and now and the future. 84 00:04:55,610 --> 00:05:03,590 So in that space of being present here and now, that's fine, but 85 00:05:03,590 --> 00:05:08,030 if we have no understanding of how our pastors affected us. 86 00:05:08,615 --> 00:05:10,085 You dunno what you don't know, right? 87 00:05:10,135 --> 00:05:10,455 Mm-hmm. 88 00:05:10,545 --> 00:05:15,635 So you think that you are behaving in a particular way just because 89 00:05:15,635 --> 00:05:16,745 that's the way you are made. 90 00:05:16,865 --> 00:05:19,715 That's who you are, that is what you do. 91 00:05:20,795 --> 00:05:24,455 What I think can be a revelation to some people, and, and in my case 92 00:05:24,455 --> 00:05:29,765 it was, was that the reasons I was behaving in certain ways were because 93 00:05:29,765 --> 00:05:32,915 of my past and they did drive me to. 94 00:05:33,405 --> 00:05:40,065 Be very determined to work very hard over hard on times to not give myself a break. 95 00:05:40,155 --> 00:05:45,495 So even when I was in the moment, in the moment, to me was probably quite 96 00:05:45,495 --> 00:05:52,425 brief, but I had no awareness that I could change those behaviors and that 97 00:05:52,425 --> 00:05:55,155 I could actually be even more present. 98 00:05:55,985 --> 00:06:01,484 And really be at peace with, the person that I was, understand the reasons for 99 00:06:01,484 --> 00:06:07,759 those behaviors, and actually just chip away at my kind of personality to, avoid 100 00:06:08,199 --> 00:06:09,829 previous pitfalls that I found myself in. 101 00:06:10,039 --> 00:06:15,349 There's an awful lot on social media now about, you know, mindfulness meditation. 102 00:06:15,989 --> 00:06:16,559 it, it's. 103 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:21,449 They are, I, I think they are very good practices to do. 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,979 I think the problem is if you don't know why you are doing it, or you are doing it 105 00:06:25,984 --> 00:06:30,479 because you've seen it and you think it's a really good idea and you think it's good 106 00:06:30,484 --> 00:06:34,409 to relax your mind, so, okay, I'm gonna practice five or 10 minutes meditation. 107 00:06:34,859 --> 00:06:39,119 Yes, you can be present, but if you return back to your hectic, 108 00:06:39,119 --> 00:06:44,129 busy, overwhelmed life five to 10 minutes later, that's not the same. 109 00:06:44,709 --> 00:06:46,839 Yeah, I, I appreciate that distinction. 110 00:06:46,899 --> 00:06:56,169 And I think a lot of people mistake mindfulness for escapism and using, 111 00:06:56,269 --> 00:06:59,834 a mindfulness practice to check out. 112 00:07:00,264 --> 00:07:03,979 and to your point, if we're just then going right back in, there's, 113 00:07:03,979 --> 00:07:09,859 there's no actual discernible change, behavior change, or change of, you 114 00:07:09,859 --> 00:07:11,599 know, reality or circumstances. 115 00:07:12,019 --> 00:07:17,749 Then it's no different than watching a television show or playing a video 116 00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:23,989 game or you know, drinking alcohol or something else that we might do to escape. 117 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:24,949 Exactly. 118 00:07:25,889 --> 00:07:29,619 Michelle, I want to, I wanna bring this to some context that 119 00:07:29,624 --> 00:07:31,959 is applicable to our listeners. 120 00:07:32,009 --> 00:07:36,689 so service leaders who are in the business of helping other people in 121 00:07:36,689 --> 00:07:41,859 general, we, I can collectively say are people who, have a drive to. 122 00:07:42,159 --> 00:07:44,899 Help others, to do some good in the world. 123 00:07:45,289 --> 00:07:49,999 And oftentimes that comes, through some amount of self-sacrifice and, in 124 00:07:49,999 --> 00:07:52,399 worst case scenarios, leads to burnout. 125 00:07:53,479 --> 00:07:59,064 I think looking at it through this lens of, of subconscious 126 00:07:59,064 --> 00:08:04,614 programming, I'm wondering, how much of those of us who are. 127 00:08:05,229 --> 00:08:11,019 In the business of service or our helpers, as it might be called, are doing it, 128 00:08:11,069 --> 00:08:15,089 because it's their personality, because it's a natural, you know, phenomena. 129 00:08:15,579 --> 00:08:16,139 Phenomena for them. 130 00:08:16,529 --> 00:08:20,654 Or how much, are people doing this because it's what they were 131 00:08:20,659 --> 00:08:22,634 programmed to do or told to do? 132 00:08:22,734 --> 00:08:28,215 mm they're told who they were or the result of, maybe, an adaptation. 133 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:31,630 To, something that they experienced when they were younger. 134 00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:32,590 What are your thoughts on that? 135 00:08:33,070 --> 00:08:33,430 I think 136 00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:34,510 it can be a mix. 137 00:08:34,570 --> 00:08:37,300 I think, you know, we're not all the same. 138 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,260 We're all unique. 139 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:41,350 We have different backgrounds, we have different expectations, different 140 00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:45,290 cultures, different experiences and different advice over the years 141 00:08:45,290 --> 00:08:49,730 from various role models, be it our parents, teachers, friends, whatever. 142 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,440 And I think. 143 00:08:51,860 --> 00:08:56,150 There is something about being service leaders where you could say, well, okay, 144 00:08:56,250 --> 00:08:59,040 that type of personality has a need. 145 00:08:59,910 --> 00:09:04,590 To rescue people to make sure that everything is okay with everybody 146 00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:10,890 to nurture, to care, to, to almost gather everybody in and, and hold 147 00:09:10,895 --> 00:09:15,330 them close, to enable those people to be better people, perhaps sometimes 148 00:09:15,330 --> 00:09:19,980 because they have learned from their own experiences and want to 149 00:09:19,985 --> 00:09:21,720 impart that, that advice to others. 150 00:09:22,390 --> 00:09:26,140 sometimes it is just because it's the very thing that they. 151 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,860 Find is their strength and they find that people will listen to them. 152 00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:30,100 Mm-hmm. 153 00:09:30,180 --> 00:09:34,600 So a lot of it is down to how people tune into you as a person. 154 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,530 If you find you have a rapport with people and you find it easy to communicate 155 00:09:38,530 --> 00:09:43,060 with people and you are interested in the psyche and everything else, it all 156 00:09:43,065 --> 00:09:46,660 can build in a very subliminal way to. 157 00:09:47,150 --> 00:09:51,080 to wanting to help others, but for each person, the reason for doing 158 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,550 that can be very, very different. 159 00:09:52,940 --> 00:09:58,820 I, I would suspect that, for instance, if you were in the category of something had 160 00:09:58,820 --> 00:10:04,795 happened to you when you were younger, And then you have a view that you wanted to 161 00:10:04,795 --> 00:10:10,985 prevent other people going through, the pain or sacrifice or whatever that you had 162 00:10:11,405 --> 00:10:12,515 particularly gone through, I think mm-hmm. 163 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,835 We need to be careful with that because my experience, of course, is not the 164 00:10:16,835 --> 00:10:20,015 same as somebody else's experience or somebody else's experience. 165 00:10:20,015 --> 00:10:23,315 So I think it, it, it can be very complex. 166 00:10:23,705 --> 00:10:25,715 Because it's very individualistic based. 167 00:10:26,195 --> 00:10:28,295 Yeah, I agree with that 100%. 168 00:10:28,355 --> 00:10:34,825 And and I think for many of us who are, service leaders, We 169 00:10:34,830 --> 00:10:40,965 are driven by those experiences, meaning that it was a painful, 170 00:10:41,055 --> 00:10:42,975 oftentimes or traumatic experience. 171 00:10:42,975 --> 00:10:46,515 And so, yeah, of course we wanna help others avoid that. 172 00:10:46,575 --> 00:10:51,945 I think the, what we want to suss out here is, are we doing 173 00:10:51,950 --> 00:10:54,315 this as a conscious decision? 174 00:10:54,825 --> 00:10:57,915 And understanding why we're making that decision. 175 00:10:57,975 --> 00:11:02,695 And what is the intersectionality of experiences, skillsets, personality, all 176 00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:10,445 of the things that you mentioned versus, being driven to do this work, as a. 177 00:11:11,225 --> 00:11:16,255 Coping mechanism as a way of, maybe, you know, healing from, 178 00:11:16,415 --> 00:11:20,945 past trauma or making up for past wrongs or, or whatever it may be. 179 00:11:21,195 --> 00:11:24,535 I don't want to, you know, be, be trite in my, you know, my description. 180 00:11:24,535 --> 00:11:28,925 There's, like you said, a wide variety of, people and, and reasons 181 00:11:28,985 --> 00:11:30,305 why people come to this work. 182 00:11:30,725 --> 00:11:35,315 But, but that's what I, I wanna dig into today with you, is really understanding. 183 00:11:35,795 --> 00:11:45,785 Why we do what we do and, and ensuring that we are making a decision and 184 00:11:45,785 --> 00:11:52,245 not just falling into something or, something, that, that we're, we're doing. 185 00:11:52,435 --> 00:11:59,186 certainly on a career level, is just a result of, a, a headlong stumble into, you 186 00:11:59,191 --> 00:12:01,015 know, the, the path that we're already on. 187 00:12:02,020 --> 00:12:04,810 So I think a lot of us have been there in terms of stumbling, 188 00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:06,280 stumbling into something. 189 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:07,210 I, 190 00:12:07,210 --> 00:12:09,310 I think absolutely there's, there's no judgment there, 191 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,670 there, there, there's nuance here. 192 00:12:12,670 --> 00:12:17,140 I think because it is entirely possible for people to start out 193 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:22,750 falling into something because it feels right, but they don't know. 194 00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:24,370 They don't know why it feels right. 195 00:12:24,990 --> 00:12:26,960 or they're very good at what they do. 196 00:12:27,690 --> 00:12:30,180 They may not know why they're good at what, what they're doing. 197 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:30,420 Mm-hmm. 198 00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:33,810 There could, but I think it depends at what point in your 199 00:12:33,810 --> 00:12:35,370 life you start doing those things. 200 00:12:35,370 --> 00:12:39,530 So it's quite interesting, of all the people that I, that I meet on 201 00:12:39,770 --> 00:12:44,390 LinkedIn, for instance, who are in the service or providing assistance for 202 00:12:44,390 --> 00:12:50,540 others, it is 99% of the time because they have had personal experiences 203 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:52,790 that they want others to learn from. 204 00:12:53,390 --> 00:12:54,920 however, sometimes I think. 205 00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:57,740 And we can give people advice. 206 00:12:57,770 --> 00:12:58,100 Sure. 207 00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:01,520 But sometimes we learn best from our own experiences. 208 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,260 So I'm not saying to people, well, you can't do any of the things that, that, 209 00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:10,790 that we're, we're kind of warning you about because that would not be right. 210 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:12,440 We need to learn by our own experiences. 211 00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,850 However, I think there are people who have. 212 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,500 Learned different things along the way. 213 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:21,980 So different, different elements of their pathways. 214 00:13:21,980 --> 00:13:25,160 For instance, they might start out by falling into something, 215 00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:28,550 but then they might realize, oh, hang on, hang on a minute. 216 00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:30,680 Why am I interested? 217 00:13:31,145 --> 00:13:33,335 So much in this particular arena. 218 00:13:33,605 --> 00:13:35,405 What is it about this that drives me? 219 00:13:35,595 --> 00:13:35,915 Mm-hmm. 220 00:13:35,995 --> 00:13:39,965 And they might be curious then to go and dig more into the detail 221 00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:41,375 to understand about themselves. 222 00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:46,895 Now, I, I think it is pretty impossible to help others unless we have a 223 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:48,905 deep understanding about ourselves. 224 00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:52,325 And unless we've taken that time out to self reflect and 225 00:13:52,325 --> 00:13:54,305 ask ourselves those questions. 226 00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:59,840 Because that would, if we don't do those things for me, that then doesn't 227 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,130 feel right to be in that space to, to be a service leader for other people. 228 00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:04,970 I, I 229 00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:05,420 agree. 230 00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:11,360 And, and I, and I don't think you're saying that we need to, be perfect or, 231 00:14:11,420 --> 00:14:16,610 you know, even fully healed necessarily, but we do have to have that awareness 232 00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:19,960 and have to have that, that search, to. 233 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:25,060 Really understand, at least who we are, which I appreciate. 234 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,110 So Michelle, let's dig into a little bit of 235 00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:30,710 the how. 236 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:35,950 I also think that there, there might be a clear indicator sometimes for people 237 00:14:35,950 --> 00:14:40,180 because if we're in a job of, of being a service leader and we're providing a 238 00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:45,220 service with others, and we find that we are getting either more emotional or, 239 00:14:45,820 --> 00:14:52,310 We're judging somebody for their situation or we're feeling, I don't wanna say angry, 240 00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:57,350 but frustration with their situation, then that would be a trigger for me, I think. 241 00:14:58,535 --> 00:15:03,575 What is it about that in this space that is providing that trigger for me? 242 00:15:03,575 --> 00:15:07,325 And I think that's why I talk about self-reflection because I, I have 243 00:15:07,330 --> 00:15:12,035 come across people who, who have been in that industry and they, they have 244 00:15:12,035 --> 00:15:15,515 got quite frustrated with certain individuals who have come to them. 245 00:15:15,515 --> 00:15:19,025 And this is why I come back to rapport between people as well. 246 00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:19,085 Yeah. 247 00:15:19,685 --> 00:15:22,805 and often I, I kind of, it tends to be the. 248 00:15:24,530 --> 00:15:28,970 The kind of coaching scenario where you have people telling people what they think 249 00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:32,030 they should do, which is not my style. 250 00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:34,490 Parti, it can be somebody else's style. 251 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:38,700 And then, taking offense or being frustrated if that person doesn't 252 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:40,080 take their advice, et cetera. 253 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,760 So I think, I think there are, there's a little flag to say that if you feel that 254 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,360 frustration, that might be a good point. 255 00:15:48,855 --> 00:15:53,075 Or if you are feeling overwhelmed and overworked and you can't. 256 00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:58,530 you feel you can't continue listening to people's problems, that might 257 00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:03,570 be a point to reflect and go, why might, why might that be the case? 258 00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:05,130 Yeah, absolutely. 259 00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:06,960 I, I appreciate that. 260 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,370 And, and you know, just to a personal anecdote, you know, I used 261 00:16:11,370 --> 00:16:15,920 to do a lot of one-on-one or small group coaching and, had to walk 262 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,310 away from it for, quite some time. 263 00:16:18,370 --> 00:16:22,660 And, That also coincided with professional development for me. 264 00:16:23,230 --> 00:16:31,840 but I, you know, was at a point in my life where it was doing me more harm than good. 265 00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:37,525 Meaning that, you know, the, the feel good parts of helping people, we are 266 00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:43,080 not overshadowing the, emotional toll that it was taking on me or what I was 267 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,680 maybe, challenged by during that time. 268 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,780 it was bumping into that for me and, and I had to, to step 269 00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:52,550 away, for, for a period of time. 270 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,470 And, And, and I think that's what we're talking about here is, is that awareness. 271 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,500 So I, I'd love to dig into, how, how do we start to become 272 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:04,720 aware of this subconscious? 273 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,420 Because like you said, we don't, we don't know what we don't know. 274 00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:12,130 so I, I imagine that everyone listening wants to know, How 275 00:17:12,130 --> 00:17:12,760 do they start that journey? 276 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,040 So I, I think, I mean, I've already mentioned some flags 277 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,230 that, that I would look for. 278 00:17:20,235 --> 00:17:25,690 So if I, if I look back on my own personal example, I, I was a driver. 279 00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:27,070 I was very determined. 280 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,570 I worked very hard. 281 00:17:28,570 --> 00:17:33,160 I'd been brought up to believe that you work hard for everything in this life. 282 00:17:33,550 --> 00:17:35,290 You know, nothing in this life comes free. 283 00:17:35,620 --> 00:17:37,690 We can think of a million phrases around that. 284 00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:42,940 I, I think my mum used to say, if a job's worth doing, wor worth 285 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:44,260 doing, it's worth doing yourself. 286 00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:48,340 So everything about my background had taught me that 287 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,320 I had to work hard, very hard. 288 00:17:50,890 --> 00:17:52,540 I mustn't take anything for granted. 289 00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:55,220 I must, do everything around the house. 290 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,020 I must look after my kids. 291 00:17:57,380 --> 00:18:01,770 And I never really stopped and thought. 292 00:18:02,675 --> 00:18:07,890 If this was somebody else in my situation and I could see them running themselves 293 00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:10,230 ragged working all the Ascot sentence. 294 00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:10,320 Mm-hmm. 295 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,130 Looking after two boys, being a single parent, trying to be perfect around 296 00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:18,590 the house, not really having a social life, what would I say to that person? 297 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,295 Because chances are, if that was your best mate, You would be reading the Via. 298 00:18:24,115 --> 00:18:27,095 You would be going, what do you think you are doing? 299 00:18:27,095 --> 00:18:28,615 Because this is not sustainable. 300 00:18:28,615 --> 00:18:28,855 Yeah. 301 00:18:28,955 --> 00:18:32,535 But when it comes to ourselves, for some reason we think we've got the 302 00:18:32,535 --> 00:18:35,815 Superman cake, we seem to think that we can just continue in that way. 303 00:18:35,815 --> 00:18:45,950 So, My, my main tip is to imagine that you can see a, either a double version of 304 00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:52,380 you in the same room or a friend of yours, but apply the same, life for them that 305 00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:56,130 you are currently running, and just have a look to see what that would look like. 306 00:18:56,370 --> 00:18:58,170 Imagine what that would look like. 307 00:18:58,995 --> 00:18:59,175 Yeah. 308 00:18:59,235 --> 00:19:02,865 And if you could imagine that they were there with you, what kinds of 309 00:19:02,865 --> 00:19:04,305 things would you be saying to them? 310 00:19:04,305 --> 00:19:09,375 Would you be asking them questions like, is it absolutely necessary, for example, 311 00:19:09,380 --> 00:19:11,785 to, to do all the work you are doing? 312 00:19:11,835 --> 00:19:14,955 If you could do something in a different way, what could you do? 313 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:19,300 If you could, if you had choices, what things would you change? 314 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,400 It's asking those open-ended questions to prod the person into thinking we 315 00:19:24,405 --> 00:19:27,850 are more than capable of actually answering those questions ourselves. 316 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,310 It's just easier if you. 317 00:19:30,575 --> 00:19:35,225 Take it out of your head and pop it somewhere else so that it feels like you 318 00:19:35,225 --> 00:19:36,875 are asking somebody else the question. 319 00:19:36,995 --> 00:19:42,245 It feels less emotional and just more logical and factual, and the answer 320 00:19:42,245 --> 00:19:43,925 will come back very instinctively. 321 00:19:44,405 --> 00:19:48,455 While I could change my working day, I could get takeout tonight. 322 00:19:48,635 --> 00:19:53,275 I could see if I could find help to, for someone to look after the children there. 323 00:19:53,285 --> 00:19:56,495 There would be a probably quite a long list of things that you could do. 324 00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:59,690 But it's the fact that we never really ask ourselves. 325 00:19:59,690 --> 00:20:03,950 We just continue thinking it's our responsibility to do all of those things, 326 00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:04,130 right? 327 00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:11,720 So it becomes necessary to start to view ourselves from the outside. 328 00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:18,210 we have to be able to look at ourselves as if we were some, someone else as a, 329 00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:23,155 a third party, in order to step out of. 330 00:20:24,035 --> 00:20:28,355 The, the cycle that we sometimes get in of Yes. 331 00:20:28,385 --> 00:20:31,225 Do, do, do, or have to. 332 00:20:31,315 --> 00:20:34,585 I, I, those are half tos and shoulds. 333 00:20:34,735 --> 00:20:37,315 you know, as they say, you know, stop shoulding on yourself. 334 00:20:37,345 --> 00:20:37,675 Yes, yes. 335 00:20:37,825 --> 00:20:40,495 cause it's, it's just leading to this cycle. 336 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:40,665 Right. 337 00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:44,470 Yeah, and actually that's a good point about the language. 338 00:20:44,530 --> 00:20:50,950 If, if we start to notice that we're using, I need to, I have to, I should 339 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:56,920 do, those are drivers, those are very strong drivers for continuing actions, 340 00:20:56,925 --> 00:21:01,630 continuing practices that are invariably, well, look, it's not always bad. 341 00:21:01,630 --> 00:21:05,725 I'm not saying that, you know, if I need to go shopping, Is that a bad thing? 342 00:21:05,725 --> 00:21:09,565 I'm not saying that the, using that language all the time is bad, but if it's, 343 00:21:10,075 --> 00:21:12,985 I, I need to do this, I have to do this. 344 00:21:13,315 --> 00:21:18,625 Very often what I ask is, so what if you don't do those things? 345 00:21:18,625 --> 00:21:19,405 What happens? 346 00:21:19,405 --> 00:21:19,465 Yeah. 347 00:21:19,935 --> 00:21:26,785 And, and in reality actually not a lot, but until we're physically asked that 348 00:21:26,785 --> 00:21:29,395 question, we imagine the world will end. 349 00:21:29,395 --> 00:21:31,915 We imagine that something terrible is going to happen. 350 00:21:31,915 --> 00:21:34,345 Worst cause our imagination is much more powerful. 351 00:21:34,585 --> 00:21:35,935 It goes to the worst case. 352 00:21:36,205 --> 00:21:38,305 Whereas if we actually say, so what? 353 00:21:39,595 --> 00:21:42,635 What if you don't do these things, the brain has to go. 354 00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:45,610 Oh, actually, I don't know. 355 00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:49,420 Or not a lot, or, and it, it can be quite surprising. 356 00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:52,420 Hey, the brain can actually kind just go, well, I, I actually 357 00:21:52,425 --> 00:21:53,830 dunno the answer to that question. 358 00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:56,650 So it's really interesting to just do that. 359 00:21:56,950 --> 00:22:01,000 That's that stopping and thinking and reflecting and asking questions. 360 00:22:01,005 --> 00:22:05,650 Now, sometimes that's more useful with the coach if you, if you don't 361 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,520 necessarily have the tools per se, or. 362 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:12,110 Comfortable or confident in doing that. 363 00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:16,520 Sometimes it can be useful to see a coach or somebody in that sphere who 364 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:22,940 could help you, but, but once you've got the, the basis of that, we can then 365 00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:24,980 stop and go, actually, do you know what? 366 00:22:25,870 --> 00:22:28,060 I'm sure there's a way of a different way of doing that. 367 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:29,920 So let me just stop for a moment and think about it. 368 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,310 I think it's just our human nature that we don't tend to stop. 369 00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:34,750 We just tend to keep going. 370 00:22:35,470 --> 00:22:41,430 So, what I'm hearing you say is, first we need to become aware of. 371 00:22:41,985 --> 00:22:46,095 The, the flags what those, you know, signals are. 372 00:22:46,185 --> 00:22:49,855 And that can be language, can, can be that, I would imagine feeling 373 00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:54,395 overwhelmed, or feeling like, you know, somehow we can't catch up. 374 00:22:54,875 --> 00:22:58,985 Those, those flags are a signal that we need to make a change. 375 00:22:59,045 --> 00:22:59,195 Yeah. 376 00:22:59,795 --> 00:23:04,325 And, and then once, once we do, then it's. 377 00:23:04,865 --> 00:23:07,805 It's coming to a place of, of rest. 378 00:23:07,805 --> 00:23:08,075 Right. 379 00:23:08,075 --> 00:23:16,775 Stopping and asking or, or bringing in this strategy of what, what if, what 380 00:23:16,775 --> 00:23:18,875 would happen or as you said, so what? 381 00:23:19,005 --> 00:23:19,495 Yeah. 382 00:23:19,915 --> 00:23:24,975 And I think, you know, when you talk about the flags, I could almost project 383 00:23:24,980 --> 00:23:29,595 myself back to where I was in that I used to call it, being on a hamster wheel. 384 00:23:29,685 --> 00:23:33,045 I just felt like I was running, running, running, running 385 00:23:33,050 --> 00:23:35,325 all the time without a break. 386 00:23:36,105 --> 00:23:38,145 The, the real benefit of the so what? 387 00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:46,290 Is that it's almost a way for the brain to take a breath is to to have a mini 388 00:23:46,290 --> 00:23:50,340 pause, to just stop and think, which we normally don't give ourselves time to do. 389 00:23:51,090 --> 00:23:55,170 I think there is nuance in terms of there's a lot of 390 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:57,930 negativity associated with. 391 00:23:58,620 --> 00:24:03,600 Going slower, taking time out, doing things perhaps in a different way. 392 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,470 Certainly the world that I was in was in project management and the project 393 00:24:07,470 --> 00:24:12,630 management style was, you did lots of hours, you worked really hard. 394 00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:17,070 you were task orientated, activity orientated, and. 395 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:22,770 I think in the corporate world there is an expectation of a certain, 396 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,590 sure, performance, workload, and then there's negativity associated with 397 00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:30,400 not necessarily, working to the norm. 398 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,040 So that's why I say it can be difficult for people to ask themselves 399 00:24:36,045 --> 00:24:39,970 those questions because I would bet most people deep down know that 400 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:43,840 the, the situation that they have found themselves in is not great. 401 00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:48,565 But they want to be seen to be coping, so they just keep going. 402 00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:49,510 Yeah, 403 00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:57,400 because action or doing is I think the ultimate distraction. 404 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:04,010 because if we are busy, then we don't have time to, to think or to 405 00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:05,920 feel bad about what we're doing. 406 00:25:06,780 --> 00:25:08,190 but it's a, it's a trap. 407 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,510 busy does not equal. 408 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:16,650 Productive or effective, it's can be just a space filler. 409 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:23,080 I, I'm thinking about, the beginning of the year for me, January end 410 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,070 into February is, is a tough time for me for many reasons. 411 00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:33,150 living in a, you know, northern state where there's, limited light, That 412 00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:37,970 certainly affects my mood not being able to get outside, be, be as active, after 413 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:39,680 the holidays and after the new year. 414 00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:42,810 there's just this, you know, inevitable sort of like 415 00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:45,930 letdown of not having exciting. 416 00:25:46,110 --> 00:25:47,160 things happening. 417 00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:52,170 and then the pressure of this is a new year, new you, you have all of 418 00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:57,590 these, you know, resolutions and, plans and goals for the upcoming year. 419 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:04,005 It also coincides with the anniversary of my birth father's suicide of, my, 420 00:26:04,535 --> 00:26:08,735 you know, anniversary of the death of a, you know, of a dear friend. 421 00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:11,750 And it's just generally a very hard time for me. 422 00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:17,660 And I find, near mid the end, end of January every year, I'm just feeling 423 00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:20,420 down, depressed, apathetic, lethargic. 424 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,110 And I, just, I can't focus, I can't get things done. 425 00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:23,950 I. 426 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,285 And traditionally I've been really hard on myself. 427 00:26:27,705 --> 00:26:34,355 and, and really just, you know, critical of my inability to get 428 00:26:34,355 --> 00:26:36,095 going cuz it's the new year. 429 00:26:36,095 --> 00:26:40,315 And of course like I need to get going and, this year I, I. 430 00:26:40,830 --> 00:26:47,400 I had some awareness going into the year to say, every year this cycle repeats, 431 00:26:47,790 --> 00:26:53,580 and each year I, I go through this, this same routine, and I find myself, you 432 00:26:53,580 --> 00:26:59,650 know, February, mid-February finally coming out of it and being like, who? 433 00:26:59,650 --> 00:27:01,270 That, that was awful. 434 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,200 and I just made it worse on myself. 435 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:07,500 So this year, I actually took time off and. 436 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,580 I, I allowed myself to just be, to just experience. 437 00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:13,000 Yeah. 438 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,060 And, it wasn't as though I, I, I did no work. 439 00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:20,820 I, I did some, but, certainly what I, the, the level of 440 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:23,160 output that I, you know, enjoy. 441 00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:27,720 I, I, I didn't do and, was so much better for it. 442 00:27:27,810 --> 00:27:32,740 So, this is just a small, little case, study of, to affirm what you're saying. 443 00:27:33,130 --> 00:27:37,820 You know, that that sort of being, being aware first is, is really what's 444 00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:41,275 necessary, understanding the flags, and then, and then stopping and reflecting. 445 00:27:41,275 --> 00:27:45,525 And I, and I absolutely asked myself that question, like, what's the 446 00:27:45,530 --> 00:27:48,385 worst thing that's gonna happen if I. 447 00:27:49,075 --> 00:27:55,135 Take time off if I'm not busy, if I'm not quote unquote productive, what's 448 00:27:55,415 --> 00:27:57,055 the worst thing that's gonna happen? 449 00:27:57,265 --> 00:28:01,075 And when we go through those scenarios, understanding that like 450 00:28:01,705 --> 00:28:05,545 in in reality, that that probably is not going to be the case. 451 00:28:05,545 --> 00:28:07,075 And as it turns out it wasn't. 452 00:28:07,345 --> 00:28:09,505 And in fact, I was better off for it. 453 00:28:09,505 --> 00:28:13,285 And now coming into, you know, this season, I'm. 454 00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:15,310 Doing better than ever. 455 00:28:15,460 --> 00:28:16,420 Better than, than usual. 456 00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:16,870 Certainly. 457 00:28:16,990 --> 00:28:17,200 So. 458 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:20,680 Well, I'm, I'm sorry to hear about your birth father. 459 00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:24,660 my, my own mother committed suicide actually when I was seven months pregnant. 460 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:26,340 So, and I didn't know that about your dad. 461 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:31,140 So, I can empathize with that and I think that is a typical example actually, 462 00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:33,990 where I, I dunno how I felt at the time. 463 00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:34,680 I certainly. 464 00:28:35,250 --> 00:28:40,260 Didn't grieve and because I was pregnant, I think I shut my brain down to protect 465 00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:44,480 my baby and continue life as normal. 466 00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:48,000 And I never, I never took time out about that. 467 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,810 And I think, you know, when I, when I look back at the different experiences 468 00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:57,900 that I've had and I'm, you know, a cop, I, I thought it was a strength to cope and 469 00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,340 get through those, difficult situations. 470 00:29:01,285 --> 00:29:06,055 I think it takes greater strength to actually self-reflect and stop and 471 00:29:06,505 --> 00:29:08,365 take time out like you've done Jacob. 472 00:29:08,365 --> 00:29:09,495 So, that's off to you. 473 00:29:09,585 --> 00:29:14,325 But I, but I do really think that it's something that we, in our society at 474 00:29:14,325 --> 00:29:18,735 the moment, for me, life seems to be getting faster and faster and faster. 475 00:29:19,095 --> 00:29:24,075 Greater pressure, greater social media influence and pressure to succeed. 476 00:29:24,075 --> 00:29:25,845 To not stop, I mean, only this morning. 477 00:29:25,845 --> 00:29:27,365 Yeah, I was looking at a. 478 00:29:27,845 --> 00:29:31,655 a LinkedIn video where somebody was saying, oh, I don't need any sleep. 479 00:29:31,655 --> 00:29:34,855 You know, I've got a one year old, I, I had four hours sleep 480 00:29:34,855 --> 00:29:36,375 and I can function perfectly fine. 481 00:29:36,375 --> 00:29:41,255 Well, ok, you may be able to for one month, two month, three months, but sure. 482 00:29:41,255 --> 00:29:42,695 How long is that gonna continue for? 483 00:29:42,705 --> 00:29:43,655 Is it sustainable? 484 00:29:43,885 --> 00:29:44,855 Yeah, exactly. 485 00:29:44,855 --> 00:29:45,775 Yeah, exactly. 486 00:29:45,825 --> 00:29:48,695 So I think there's this bravado around. 487 00:29:49,265 --> 00:29:53,215 As coping and continuing keep going when in fact, yeah, we're not 488 00:29:53,215 --> 00:29:53,725 machines. 489 00:29:53,915 --> 00:29:54,565 Eh, no. 490 00:29:54,565 --> 00:29:57,505 And, and that's a, a quite a toxic perspective. 491 00:29:58,105 --> 00:30:02,645 And as the father of a, a now one year old, you know, I can say it's been 492 00:30:02,645 --> 00:30:06,150 an incredibly difficult year, and. 493 00:30:07,060 --> 00:30:12,790 I didn't realize how well I slept before, how much I took sleep 494 00:30:12,790 --> 00:30:18,320 for granted before, and, what a, what a premium it is in my life. 495 00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:20,650 but I, I think I. 496 00:30:21,050 --> 00:30:24,260 you know, the, the person that you spoke of, like, right, yes, you can, you 497 00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:28,270 can continue and you can, potentially do your work and, and perform, but 498 00:30:28,270 --> 00:30:32,100 at what cost to your health, but more importantly at what cost to your 499 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,860 relationships, because there is mm-hmm. 500 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,370 when we are at sleep deficit, there is. 501 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:42,580 many, many chemical reactions that happen inside of our body, that and, and inside 502 00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:48,670 of our brain that, lead to, lessened ability to be able to manage stress, to 503 00:30:48,670 --> 00:30:53,570 be able to create all the, neurochemicals transmitters that we need to, keep our 504 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:59,180 mood elevated, to engage in relationships in a, you know, healthy, thoughtful way. 505 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,620 And, That's what I found, have found over the last year was the first thing 506 00:31:05,620 --> 00:31:11,360 to go for me was my patience was, my filter, the space that I would 507 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:15,925 leave in between, my thoughts and my actions or my thoughts and my words. 508 00:31:16,345 --> 00:31:20,245 And, that absolutely has an impact, on. 509 00:31:20,785 --> 00:31:27,035 Relationships, but especially with these little ones, it has a, a permanent. 510 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,100 impact on their development, like we were talking about pre-show. 511 00:31:32,490 --> 00:31:36,090 my, my wife and I were just having this discussion about not wanting to, you know, 512 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,620 ruin our son and, wanting to him to have a healthy attachment style and to, really 513 00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:45,080 just have a, a, a secure sense of self. 514 00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:49,020 He recently started going to, You know, to a, a daycare, 515 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,960 center at the, Montessori school. 516 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,890 And, and it's been a difficult transition for him to go and 517 00:31:53,890 --> 00:31:55,420 spend three days a week there. 518 00:31:55,810 --> 00:31:59,690 and it's really good for all of us, because we need time. 519 00:31:59,695 --> 00:32:02,690 Yes, he needs, independence and a sense of self. 520 00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:08,240 but, we, we were talking about this fact that, Up to 75% of our personality 521 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,310 is developed by the age of three. 522 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:11,650 And yeah. 523 00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:18,120 And a lot of that happens, so early that we don't remember it in our adulthood. 524 00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:18,360 No. 525 00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:24,180 So who we are is determined largely by things we, we will 526 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:25,950 never remember in our lives. 527 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:31,845 And those who have the biggest influence on that are of course, Our parents and 528 00:32:31,845 --> 00:32:35,895 the amount of time that they spend, yeah, the words that they use, the tone that 529 00:32:35,895 --> 00:32:40,725 they use, the, the, you know, whether or not they, you know, pick you up when you 530 00:32:40,755 --> 00:32:43,075 start crying or, you know, need something. 531 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:49,195 Like, all of this affects who we are and how we are able to healthfully connect 532 00:32:49,195 --> 00:32:51,215 with other adults, when we grow up. 533 00:32:51,305 --> 00:32:52,415 So, so, yeah. 534 00:32:52,575 --> 00:32:54,375 I, I digress on, on all of that. 535 00:32:54,375 --> 00:32:57,075 It's, obviously something that's very, very 536 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:57,575 present in my mind. 537 00:32:57,890 --> 00:33:02,300 No, I was just gonna say that it's so true because, obviously my, I I say 538 00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:07,450 obviously like everyone knows, but I know my, my upbringing was, not ideal. 539 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,770 I think that's putting it lightly. 540 00:33:09,370 --> 00:33:16,480 and I think that was the very reason why I ended up breaking and, and having or 541 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,540 experiencing burnout and having depression because as you said, I had, I, okay. 542 00:33:22,540 --> 00:33:26,650 I have memory of what has happened in, so I suffered physical abuse and 543 00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:30,880 psychologically abuse on my parents, but I had no memory really of what happened. 544 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,230 Pre seven, but I, yeah, I marched fourth into the world. 545 00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:40,690 I thought complete as a person with very good morals, very good, work 546 00:33:40,690 --> 00:33:47,110 ethic, and had absolutely no idea of the psychological impacts on me and 547 00:33:47,115 --> 00:33:51,820 my future relationships with others, men, colleagues, friends, whatever. 548 00:33:53,075 --> 00:33:57,275 The, the physical impacts on me as a person in terms of how I then drove 549 00:33:57,275 --> 00:33:59,705 myself absolutely no idea at all. 550 00:33:59,825 --> 00:34:00,875 I just thought I was me. 551 00:34:01,415 --> 00:34:06,125 So I think, you know, when, when we're talking about how would someone 552 00:34:06,125 --> 00:34:11,555 know, well, with hindsight, of course I could tell that I was running out 553 00:34:11,555 --> 00:34:18,665 steam and, you know, on the hamster wheel and feeling fatigued, but I 554 00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:21,245 literally had no idea what to do. 555 00:34:21,335 --> 00:34:22,115 No idea. 556 00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:26,770 And, and unfortunately I think many people get to a situation where they end 557 00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:32,090 up, breaking because they, they have, they don't have that support network. 558 00:34:32,090 --> 00:34:33,260 They don't have that advice. 559 00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:38,120 They don't have any outside kind of assistance that could alert them to 560 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,690 the fact that actually these could be, these could be poor behaviors that might 561 00:34:42,690 --> 00:34:47,430 result in, in burnout, in depression, in whatever, of course, which is a, 562 00:34:47,490 --> 00:34:49,080 a long road to recovery potentially. 563 00:34:49,485 --> 00:34:50,805 Yeah, absolutely. 564 00:34:51,285 --> 00:34:57,445 And, I, I really appreciate you sharing your, your story and, and I think 565 00:34:57,715 --> 00:35:01,445 as someone, you know, my, my birth father died, by suicide when I was 566 00:35:01,445 --> 00:35:05,165 six years old, so I think similarly to you, I don't, I don't remember a lot. 567 00:35:05,525 --> 00:35:06,335 Before that. 568 00:35:06,845 --> 00:35:11,725 And, a lot of what I have over time, attributed to just being my personality, 569 00:35:12,155 --> 00:35:19,225 being the eldest of 33 cousins and, someone who is driven and strong and, you 570 00:35:19,225 --> 00:35:22,075 know, a athletic and sort of tireless. 571 00:35:22,285 --> 00:35:26,205 now I'm realizing, oh, those were, those were coping. 572 00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:28,650 Mechanisms and, and techniques. 573 00:35:28,655 --> 00:35:32,850 And actually, as I've gotten to know myself better, certainly becoming a 574 00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:35,560 father has, helped me with that process. 575 00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:39,295 I, I've come to realize that some of the things that I just, took for granted 576 00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:44,545 as being me, like who I thought was me, were, were things that were actually 577 00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:46,555 just thrust upon me by circumstances. 578 00:35:47,035 --> 00:35:48,705 And, you know, and, and I think. 579 00:35:49,450 --> 00:35:53,620 To your earlier point, going through and doing that analysis sort of from 580 00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:57,760 the third party perspective or, if, if you need help with that, you know, 581 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,730 working with a coach or a therapist or you know, trusted advisor, for that 582 00:36:01,730 --> 00:36:07,250 process, can be really helpful because then you can choose what do I want 583 00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:15,290 to keep and what can I let go, what actually belongs to me and what is, yeah. 584 00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:18,095 Something that I can leave in the past. 585 00:36:18,285 --> 00:36:21,135 and I, and I think that brings us full circle to this idea, 586 00:36:21,235 --> 00:36:25,255 that, you know, you, you have to include the past in this process 587 00:36:25,765 --> 00:36:30,115 in order to yeah, truly understand, who you are in the present day. 588 00:36:30,835 --> 00:36:31,045 And, 589 00:36:31,045 --> 00:36:34,315 and this, and I think we've said before, this isn't about becoming the 590 00:36:34,315 --> 00:36:38,635 perfect person, the perfect parent, the perfect friend and colleague. 591 00:36:39,325 --> 00:36:40,845 I think this is just being. 592 00:36:41,575 --> 00:36:45,220 It's, it's adding a layer of richness to something that 593 00:36:45,220 --> 00:36:46,870 potentially wasn't there before. 594 00:36:47,350 --> 00:36:53,260 Once you, once you pull in that understanding of why you might be 595 00:36:53,265 --> 00:36:58,945 behaving in a certain way, It isn't necessarily, as you said about deleting 596 00:36:58,945 --> 00:37:03,265 those behaviors, but at least then you can take some control and say, well, 597 00:37:03,715 --> 00:37:05,995 actually what's useful for me right now? 598 00:37:06,535 --> 00:37:08,545 What, what isn't useful for me? 599 00:37:08,545 --> 00:37:08,635 Mm-hmm. 600 00:37:09,025 --> 00:37:14,185 And what should I do with that now, in terms of what therapy, what, what 601 00:37:14,185 --> 00:37:15,535 tools and techniques are out there? 602 00:37:15,715 --> 00:37:17,915 It's, I, I don't bang on about. 603 00:37:18,795 --> 00:37:21,165 Neurolinguistic programming being the panacea world piece. 604 00:37:21,495 --> 00:37:24,705 It just happens to be something that works very, very quickly 605 00:37:24,705 --> 00:37:26,085 for certain individuals. 606 00:37:26,685 --> 00:37:30,205 and, and I would encourage people to try it if they've not heard of it before. 607 00:37:30,635 --> 00:37:34,235 but if it doesn't work for individuals, there are a zillion other things that 608 00:37:34,235 --> 00:37:39,935 people can try that actually does fit with their personality type or their, 609 00:37:39,975 --> 00:37:41,585 the, the way that they work Much better. 610 00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:44,150 It's just about trying something. 611 00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:44,720 Yeah. 612 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,610 I, I appreciate that, Michelle. 613 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:51,290 A as we wrap up here, I can see it's, it's become dusk there 614 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:52,850 in, in the south of France. 615 00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:56,320 And, I want to, give you, you know, the time you need to rest. 616 00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:59,360 so what, what would be the, you know, the. 617 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,440 The biggest takeaway for someone listening, or, a, a next step, an 618 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,970 action item that someone could take, to get started on this process. 619 00:38:06,975 --> 00:38:11,900 What's something that they could do right now today to to begin? 620 00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:13,290 I think I. 621 00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:18,595 Writing a list would be a really useful way of just having, having 622 00:38:18,595 --> 00:38:23,845 time set aside to just write down what elements of my life would I like to 623 00:38:23,845 --> 00:38:26,425 improve if I had the opportunity today? 624 00:38:26,875 --> 00:38:31,105 Because I think in writing that the, the brain has to go to, well, 625 00:38:31,105 --> 00:38:32,485 what don't I like at the moment? 626 00:38:32,515 --> 00:38:33,355 Well, I'm too busy. 627 00:38:33,625 --> 00:38:36,925 Well, okay, if I had an opportunity, then how could I become less busy? 628 00:38:37,045 --> 00:38:41,575 So it's a positive reinforcement of a potentially negative situation. 629 00:38:42,625 --> 00:38:46,045 And then when you, I'm not suggesting we have 20 things on the list, 630 00:38:46,045 --> 00:38:48,625 but let's just say we've got half a dozen things on the list. 631 00:38:49,255 --> 00:38:51,565 It's then going back to those things Sure. 632 00:38:52,345 --> 00:38:58,135 And trying to do, as I said before, which is imagine that's the situation 633 00:38:58,135 --> 00:38:59,875 for, you know, if we, if we. 634 00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:01,570 Disassociated. 635 00:39:01,570 --> 00:39:04,750 Imagine that's the, so that's the situation for somebody else. 636 00:39:05,050 --> 00:39:09,550 If that person is overworking, what advice would you give that 637 00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:11,850 person to reduce their workload? 638 00:39:12,070 --> 00:39:13,600 Because immediately you'll get the answer back. 639 00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:19,135 and I think that's just a really healthy way of disassociating it from self landing 640 00:39:19,135 --> 00:39:21,295 it in a place that is not emotional. 641 00:39:21,415 --> 00:39:24,775 It's not demanding that I change anything in this moment. 642 00:39:25,195 --> 00:39:28,165 All it's saying is that's, that's interesting. 643 00:39:28,165 --> 00:39:31,345 I notice that that person is really struggling with the amount 644 00:39:31,345 --> 00:39:32,185 of work that they're doing. 645 00:39:33,690 --> 00:39:35,170 I wonder what might help them. 646 00:39:35,175 --> 00:39:35,250 Yeah. 647 00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:36,340 And what could I ask them? 648 00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:39,130 What advice could I give them to help improve that situation? 649 00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:44,020 And you just do that working down the list, and then you just sit back and you. 650 00:39:44,695 --> 00:39:46,945 Listen to the information that you take back in. 651 00:39:47,275 --> 00:39:52,105 The difficulty with us, I think as humans, is that whilst we're driving and coping 652 00:39:52,105 --> 00:39:56,425 and moving forward all the time, we're not actually listening to the inner voice. 653 00:39:56,425 --> 00:40:00,535 And the inner voice is usually trying to prompt us and tell us, and 654 00:40:00,540 --> 00:40:04,045 give us warnings about things that are potentially not great for us. 655 00:40:04,535 --> 00:40:08,405 but we tend to slap it away and just go, yeah, okay, I'll just carry straight on. 656 00:40:09,095 --> 00:40:13,535 But giving yourself the time to just sit and reflect with that feedback. 657 00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:16,565 And thinking about what you might want to do with that, I think that 658 00:40:16,565 --> 00:40:18,125 would be a, a really good start. 659 00:40:18,815 --> 00:40:19,175 Yeah. 660 00:40:19,325 --> 00:40:22,925 And, and in order to hear that voice, we have to be quiet. 661 00:40:23,075 --> 00:40:24,965 We have to create Yeah. 662 00:40:25,175 --> 00:40:29,975 The space to be able to actually listen to that voice. 663 00:40:30,495 --> 00:40:30,985 Yeah. 664 00:40:31,065 --> 00:40:32,735 And then, and then acknowledge it. 665 00:40:33,095 --> 00:40:34,385 Yeah, exactly. 666 00:40:34,685 --> 00:40:38,465 Michelle, you have a gift for, for some listeners today. 667 00:40:38,495 --> 00:40:42,365 Can you share a little bit about that and, how, yeah. 668 00:40:42,365 --> 00:40:42,455 Sure. 669 00:40:42,460 --> 00:40:44,615 People might, connect with you if they'd like 670 00:40:44,615 --> 00:40:44,795 to. 671 00:40:45,335 --> 00:40:45,395 Okay. 672 00:40:46,145 --> 00:40:46,385 Sure. 673 00:40:47,115 --> 00:40:50,595 I've recently written a book, in fact, it went live on the 1st of April. 674 00:40:50,655 --> 00:40:52,245 it's called The Silent Child in Me. 675 00:40:52,965 --> 00:40:55,725 And literally it's the, it's the story in my life. 676 00:40:55,975 --> 00:40:56,965 it's okay. 677 00:40:56,965 --> 00:41:00,235 It's based in strategy and sadness, but actually the end 678 00:41:00,235 --> 00:41:01,435 result is really positive. 679 00:41:02,215 --> 00:41:06,205 and it, it doesn't fixate, as I've said on, on n p. 680 00:41:06,205 --> 00:41:09,355 It opens up your opportunities to discuss various things. 681 00:41:09,415 --> 00:41:12,235 It shows the impact of my upbringing. 682 00:41:12,725 --> 00:41:16,625 Into different areas such as relationships, my self-esteem, 683 00:41:16,625 --> 00:41:20,525 my attitude towards exercise, my attitudes, attitude towards dieting, 684 00:41:21,125 --> 00:41:23,105 my mum's suicide and all those things. 685 00:41:23,110 --> 00:41:26,555 But actually, I think there's one chapter that's called, oh my God, 686 00:41:26,555 --> 00:41:27,725 I forgot what it's called now. 687 00:41:27,975 --> 00:41:31,315 my Night in Shining Armor, which was nlp. 688 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,645 So for me, NLP was transformational. 689 00:41:34,475 --> 00:41:40,930 at the end of each chapter, I just ask six N l p type questions for 690 00:41:40,930 --> 00:41:47,110 people, just to prod the subconscious, just to get people starting to think 691 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,580 about the way they're working, the way they're driving the impacts of. 692 00:41:52,135 --> 00:41:55,885 Potential things in the past that might have happened to them and 693 00:41:55,885 --> 00:41:57,235 what that might mean for them. 694 00:41:57,235 --> 00:42:01,645 Right now, it's not a self-help book, as in, I think you should do this. 695 00:42:01,925 --> 00:42:02,790 it isn't like that. 696 00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:06,690 It's purely just to prod the subconscious in an NLP way. 697 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,110 So I have, five copies for any of your listeners who 698 00:42:11,110 --> 00:42:12,130 would, who would like a copy. 699 00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:14,380 They can get hold of me either through. 700 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,825 Michelle at MEUs, which is m e l, Are u s e.com. 701 00:42:20,435 --> 00:42:25,515 so michelle mes.com or they can find me, Michelle Ensu, on LinkedIn. 702 00:42:26,025 --> 00:42:28,275 And anyway, they want to contact me like that. 703 00:42:28,445 --> 00:42:32,315 I'm happy to send them a, a copy of my book, so the first five, 704 00:42:32,555 --> 00:42:35,775 and then, just, get 'em to send me their, their naming address. 705 00:42:36,105 --> 00:42:36,555 Cheers. 706 00:42:36,615 --> 00:42:40,215 That's, that's very, very generous and, thank you for doing that. 707 00:42:40,245 --> 00:42:45,325 And, we'll include links to, all of your profiles in the show notes as well. 708 00:42:45,325 --> 00:42:48,580 So, anyone who wants to connect with you, will be able to do so. 709 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,310 Michelle, thank you so much for your time. 710 00:42:51,310 --> 00:42:52,390 I really appreciate it. 711 00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:56,370 And, thanks for sharing your story and your expertise with our listeners. 712 00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:57,310 Thank 713 00:42:57,310 --> 00:42:57,470 you. 714 00:42:57,470 --> 00:42:58,530 Thank you for inviting me. 715 00:43:02,610 --> 00:43:05,520 Thanks so much for listening to Passion and Profits Without Burnout. 716 00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:08,910 I hope that you found some impactful takeaways, and if you 717 00:43:08,910 --> 00:43:10,470 did, I'd love to hear from you. 718 00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:15,300 Share a screenshot on your IG story, tag me or send me a quick message. 719 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,050 This show is for you, so any feedback is welcomed. 720 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,780 Hey, and make sure you're also subscribed to the show so you 721 00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:23,370 don't miss any of our new episodes. 722 00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:26,580 If you could take a few minutes to leave me a five star review, 723 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:27,990 that'd be greatly appreciated. 724 00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:30,960 Thanks for listening and be well.