00:00:06 Shreya: Meditation wasn't about clearing your mind or sitting perfectly still or trying to become a calmer, better version of yourself? What if it was simply a way of sitting beside your own life, even when that life feels messy, loud, or overwhelming? And today we are exploring a gentler approach to meditation, one that doesn't demand silence, perfection, or even just visualization.

00:00:32 Shreya: Hello and welcome to Healing Horizons, a space where we explore healing not as a destination, but as a living process, one that unfolds differently for every human being. I'm your host, Shreya, and today we are joined by Andrea Thorfinnsson, author of Living Is Easy with Eyes Closed and a meditation practitioner who focuses on making emotional and spiritual well-being more accessible, especially for people navigating anxiety, grief, anger, or simply the weight of everyday life. In this conversation, we are exploring how meditation can become a practical, compassionate tool, not something you have to master, but something that quietly supports you as you are. Welcome, Andrea. I'm honored to have you on my show.

00:01:19 Andrea Thorfinson: Thank you. It's great to be here.

00:01:21 Shreya: And Andrea, before we talk about like techniques or practices, I'm really curious about the human side of this. For you personally, when did meditation shift from being an idea to becoming something that actually supported your healing?

00:01:40 Andrea Thorfinson: Well, honestly, I spent the better part of my life with depression and anxiety, especially after my husband died very young. Um, it got really bad. And, uh, my mother used to suggest I try meditation. And to be honest, I think that I was just sort of too apathetic to give it a try or to really, you know, consider it. And on top of that, I just didn't think that, you know, sitting in silence, that was my idea of it. Sitting in silence was going to do any good. I didn't feel it would help me. So I resisted the idea of meditation for many years. But then, um. See, I've always been a very shy and pretty mild tempered person. But later in life, I got hit with anger and I didn't know where it came from. I had no coping tools to help me deal with it. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to try meditation. Um, when I first tried meditation, I, I started with guided meditations that were asking me to visualize and I couldn't do that. I couldn't see any of the images that they were suggesting, which really kind of, um, uh, frustrated me. And I thought, okay, well, meditation is not for me then, but it also led me to, uh, find the word aphantasia and learned that I have a, the inability to create mental images, but because I'm kind of stubborn and I was still struggling with depression and anxiety and trauma and anger, I thought, no, I'm going to give this another try. There's got to be some way for me to, to, to do this. And I discovered that, well, you can use the breath as an anchor. You don't need to visualize. It's more about returning to the breath. So for me, that was my introduction to meditation. And, um, from there I realized that it was starting to help. It was, I was when I started having anxiety attacks, I remembered, you know, my meditative practices and I would return to my breath, you know, maybe a slow inhale and a longer exhale. And it would, it would really help calm me down. So that was my introduction. And that was, uh, kind of where I started.

00:03:42 Shreya: That's really beautiful. And also many people approach meditation thinking that they need to silence their thoughts or achieve some kind of perfect calm. But for someone dealing with anxiety, grief, or emotional overwhelm, that expectation can actually feel impossible. So from your perspective, what is one one of the biggest misunderstandings people have about meditation?

00:04:10 Andrea Thorfinson: Well, it was for me. I thought that the. I thought everybody that meditated really did, where they were able to clear their mind of all thoughts and sit in silence for hours or whatever. I really thought that was what meditation was all about. So it was one of the reasons I was so resistant to it, because I knew that that was not for me. There was no way I could quiet my thoughts. But what I have learned is that it's not the goal of meditation. The goal of meditation is to notice when you're thinking, to not get caught up in those, to be able to return back to your anchor, whether that's breath, sound, body sensations. And that really shifted things for me, really helped me. It opened up, um, a world, you know, a new world for me, an inner world, an inner place of calm.

00:04:58 Shreya: Yeah. And, um, when someone realizes their mind doesn't settle the way they expected, how can they stay with the practice instead of assuming they are doing it wrong.

00:05:11 Andrea Thorfinson: The biggest thing I would suggest is to let go of all judgment, because we all get caught up in our thoughts. In silencing your thoughts completely is just it's not possible. It's not going to happen. So release judgment from yourself. Simply notice that you're thinking you may even want to label it like, okay, bills. You know, you're caught up in thinking about bills. So label, okay, I'm thinking about bills and then come back to the breath. Notice the breath again and again when you next time you get caught up in a thought, um, of any to do list or any trauma or anything that you know, you is causing anxiety, you simply notice that except that you're thinking and come back to your breath every time you return to the breath or to your anchor to with that breath, sound or body sensation, like I mentioned before, that's meditation. That's the return. The return right there is meditation. And, um, it, it helps you because it retrains your brain. So when you are just living your everyday life, you can remember this. You can say, oh wait, wait, I'm having these racing thoughts. I'm getting caught up in this. I don't need to be there. I can release this. I can return to my breath for a moment and go about my day.

00:06:24 Shreya: Yes, that's such an important reframe because so many people quietly carry the belief that their mind is too busy for meditation, but what you were pointing to is something different like that. Meditation is not about eliminating what's happening inside us. It's about learning how to sit beside it with a little more patience.

00:06:47 Andrea Thorfinson: Absolutely.

00:06:50 Shreya: And a lot of people turn to meditation when they are experiencing anxiety, grief, or anger. But those emotions can also make stillness feel uncomfortable. So what tends to happen internally when someone first begins to sit with those feelings rather than pushing them away.

00:07:11 Andrea Thorfinson: You know, it's different for everybody, of course, but some very strong emotions can come up, um, with anger. It can, you know, you can feel a lot of resentment. You can feel a lot of guilt. You feel a lot of shame. Um, grief can come up. You can feel a lot of tears and all of that is okay. That's your body's way of processing your emotions. And when you allow yourself that time without pushing them away or without judging them, you actually start to heal because you're finally releasing those emotions. You're finally sitting with them and letting them have their say and and flow through you, rather than just stuffing them down or ignoring them.

00:07:55 Shreya: Yeah. And how can meditation become a safe place for those emotions rather than something that intensifies them?

00:08:05 Andrea Thorfinson: Meditation is something that is personal. It's for you. It's your time, you know, um, there's nobody there judging what you're doing or how you're doing it or what's happening with you. So it's, it's a very personal and private, um, and it gives you that, that safety because it's, it is just you, it is you allowing yourself to feel these emotions and sit with them and process them and work, you know, and. You know, that's a, it's a really good question that, um, I get, and it's, it's a little hard to describe, you know, if you haven't meditated, but it just is, it's, it's a way to find your inner balance and inner calm and just really sit with what, what it is without judging it and without, um, without shame. Um. Yeah, I'm not sure if I answered your question. Yeah.

00:09:04 Shreya: I think, I think you understand really beautifully. I think that's really shifts the perspective. Instead of meditation being a place where we escape difficult emotion, it becomes a place where we slowly learn how to make them. And you just say that beautifully. And one thing you speak about that many people may not realize is that not all minds visualize. So for someone like some people, when meditation instructions say picture this or imagine that it simply doesn't work for them. So can you help us understand what it means to experience meditation without visualization?

00:09:43 Andrea Thorfinson: Oh, absolutely. As I said, you know, when I first started to meditate, that was what I was getting hung up on. Um, it was, you know, asked me to picture a golden orb or a beautiful garden. And I got so caught up in trying to create these images that I couldn't relax and I was getting frustrated. But what I found is that visualization. Visualization is absolutely not required for meditation. Meditation, you can use breath. You can use sound as an anchor. You can use body sensations. You can even use the elements such as fire or water. However, if you are trying to do a guided meditation that asks for visualization, what I've done, what I've learned is you don't need to. You don't. You don't need to try and create these images. Simply think, okay, um, Golden Orb, trust that it's there. You know, just imagine that it's there. Trust that it's there. You don't have to see it. You don't need to get caught up in that visualization. It's not about seeing something. It's about just allowing yourself to relax, allowing your mind to relax and sort of drift.

00:10:53 Shreya: what are some ways people with non-visual minds can still access presence and grounding through meditation?

00:11:03 Andrea Thorfinson: One of the one. One of my favorites is sound, sound meditation. It's such a beautiful, um, way to calm and quiet the mind. I mean, music, we all love music and music's all around us, even in nature. So when I say sound meditation, um, one of the simplest ways is to notice the furthest sound you can notice. You know, reach out with your mind and catch that sound that's way out there. Focus on that for a second and then bring your attention to the next sound that you hear. And keep bringing that closer and closer until you are the sound that you are hearing is your breath. Um, also, if you want to put in headphones and listen to a calming piece of music, what I like to do is sort of follow the sound, and until its completion, you can often feel the vibrations in your body. So you notice the body sensations and it just it naturally helps quiet your mind. It gives you an anchor so that when you do realize that you are caught up in your thoughts again, you can release the thoughts and come back to the music or the sound that you're listening to.

00:12:13 Shreya: Yeah, I think that's incredibly reassuring for a lot of listeners, because meditation advice often assumes everyone experiences the mind the same way. But the truth is, our mind are wonderfully different, and practices that honor that difference tend to be the ones that actually stick. And like I, I also once started meditation and I, I couldn't visualize that much. So I stopped doing that. So I think after this wonderful advice, I can now start again. And also for someone feeling mentally overwhelmed, maybe juggling responsibilities, emotions and constant noise. Meditation can feel like just another thing on the to do list. So what are some gentle, realistic ways meditation can fit into ordinary moments of the day?

00:13:09 Andrea Thorfinson: You know, first of all, a lot of people think that meditation means that you have to sit for half hour hours or whatever, and that's simply not true. To get benefits, uh, even five minutes a day consistently, um, can, can provide great benefits to your mental health, your overall physical and mental well-being. Um, and that can be as simple as, you know, sitting where you are, wherever it is, um, noticing how your body feels, where you feel tense, where you feel tight, um, where your, your feet meet the ground, you notice that and then you, you notice your breath. Um, is it shallow? Is it, is it, Um, fast. Uh, am I holding my breath? Because we often we hold our breath more often than we not. And, uh, when we notice these things, we're, we're able to, uh, adjust and say, okay, I'm going to take a nice deep cleansing breath in and exhale out. That signals to your mind that it's time to relax and that you're not, you know, you don't have to be in that fight or flight mode. You give yourself permission to, um, to exhale and really slow your body down. Um, it's so yeah, I, I get that we have busy lives. We all do. And, um, meditation can feel, you know, if you're not used to, it can feel like a chore. But once you really start to notice the benefits, you realize this is not a chore at all. This is something that I'm actually looking forward to.

00:14:38 Shreya: Yes. And are there small rituals or habits that can quietly support emotional balance without requiring long formal meditation seasons.

00:14:50 Andrea Thorfinson: Oh, absolutely. When I started, I started with what I call my morning gratitude meditation. It's not about sitting in silence. It's not about clearing your thoughts. For me, it was about sitting for five minutes and thinking of what I had in my life that I was grateful for. And I'll be honest, when I first started this, it was a really hard thing because I was pretty angry, like I said, and depressed, and I didn't find a lot to be grateful for. And sometimes it was simply I was grateful that, um, that I had a comfortable bed, you know, and, but I took that five minutes and I took that five minutes for myself to concentrate on my breath and to concentrate on what I was grateful for. And it might be just my grandson's smile and that smile alone. I could think of that for five minutes and feel better. So it was those little micro practices that really started helping me, um, to, to develop my, my routine, my practice and, uh, to understand what the benefits of it were. I noticed that over time, the five minutes of gratitude, um, I was able to find more and more that I was grateful for because once you start looking for it, you do start to notice the little things in life. And, and when you start noticing more and more, you, it really opens up a different world.

00:16:15 Shreya: Yes. That's such a compassionate approach because healing practices often become sustainable, not when they are perfect, but when they are small enough to meet us where we are. And something many people. Yeah, something. Something that many people experience is starting a healing practice with good intentions but slowly drifting away from it when life gets busy or emotions get heavy. So when meditation falls out, uh, like out of our routine. How can we return to it without turning it into another form of self-judgment?

00:16:52 Andrea Thorfinson: Meditation is for you. It's for the individual. So there should not be any judgment attached to it. It's not like, oh, I'm going to start a new exercise routine. And I was really good at it for two weeks. And then I, you know, stopped and fell away for three weeks. And now I'm beating myself up about it. It's not about that at all. Let go of any judgment. You know, I I've been meditating for many years now, and there's times where I fall off for whatever reason, for a week or two weeks, maybe even longer. And that's okay. That's perfectly fine. And when I'm ready to return to it, I return to it. And I often remember why I love it so much and stay with it. Um, but no, it's it's absolutely release any judgment that you have when you do have those times where you fall off. Because we all do. We're all human. We all get busy. We all have our reasons for letting it slide or letting you know it's just about, you know, meeting yourself where you are and returning to your to yourself and allowing that it's that me time, you know, it's that it's that permission to, to give yourself some, some self care.

00:18:03 Shreya: Yeah. And also like what mindset helps meditation remain a supportive companion rather than another expectation we place on ourselves.

00:18:16 Andrea Thorfinson: Because it is about you, it's about your self-care and it's about, um, you. The more you practice, the more you see the benefits. And I think that that's, that's where it really helps. Once you start seeing the benefits, you, you recognize that there, oh, there's value to this. Um, I'll tell you a quick story. Um, I've had a fear of water for years for most of my life. And recently I decided that I was going to try and, um, Conquer some fears. So I went snorkeling in Silfra, which is in Iceland, and I had a moment of panic because I ended up coughing and swallowing some water. And, uh, I was having a difficult time clearing my lungs, but I remember the instructor, you know, telling us what to do. And even after that, I still felt panic and I couldn't find anybody around me. But I returned to my meditative practices, and I just concentrated on my breath for a moment, calmed myself and was able to continue the, um, the experience. And, uh, that right there had shown me really what meditation was doing for me that, you know, it was giving me the tools that I could call upon in real life situations. And that was so valuable to me to really understand that, um, even those five minutes a day, uh, were really adding up and making a world of difference in my life and that mind shift helped me stick with it.

00:19:47 Shreya: Yeah, I love that perspective because healing practices are often less about discipline and more about kindness. And sometimes the most meaningful return is simply beginning again. And also, Andre, I have a reflection question, like for someone listening right now and who feels overwhelmed, maybe by anxiety, grief, or simply the pressure of trying to hold everything together, what would you gently want them to remember about themselves in this moment?

00:20:20 Andrea Thorfinson: That's a really good question. I think that, um, I would want them, I would ask them to release judgment of themselves, like I've said before, but to have compassion that whatever they're feeling at this time, it's okay. It it's a moment in time. Um, and I know that oftentimes when we are feeling overwhelmed or riddled with anxiety or filled with grief, that we feel that it's never going to end. And I just ask that they would sit with themselves and give themselves some compassion, some moments of peace and, you know, to, to sit with themselves, to practice a brief, just even a couple of minutes of brief meditation where you take a healing breath in, maybe hold it at the top for a second and then a longer, slower exhale. Um, that couple of moments, just repeat that three times. For example, that couple of moments really says to yourself that you matter, um, that you're loved and, uh, that what you're feeling is temporary. And, um, even if it comes back again in two minutes, it's okay because now you have something to fall back on and you can remember. No, I do matter. And I don't need to judge what is happening with my my thoughts. And maybe I'm feeling angry and that's okay. It's probably trying to tell me something and that's okay. I can come back to myself, to my breath and just to be compassionate and loving with yourself.

00:22:00 Shreya: That's beautiful. And thank you for sharing this with my listeners. And I think if one thing I'm taking from this conversation is that meditation doesn't ask you to become some someone else. It simply invites you to sit beside the person you already are. And this is truly a very amazing conversation with you. Very thoughtful, very helpful. And if after this, my listeners want to connect with you and want to know more about your work, about your book, then what's the best place to connect with you?

00:22:31 Andrea Thorfinson: Uh, well, I write on Substack so you can find me on Substack. You can search Mouse and Meditation or Andrea Thorfinnsson and you'll find me. Also, as you said at the beginning, I wrote a book on meditation, especially for people with aphantasia and or ADHD. But really for anybody who has struggled with traditional meditation, my book is Living is Easy with Eyes Closed, and that's can be found on Amazon or Genius Book Publishing. Um, but the best way if you want to connect directly to me is through Substack.

00:23:04 Shreya: Yes. And I will make sure to attach all these details and links below so that the listeners can find them easily and get in touch with you. And for my listeners, thank you for joining us today on Healing Horizons conversations like this. Thank you so much. And conversations like this remind us that healing doesn't always come through dramatic breakthroughs. Sometimes it begins with something much quieter, like a breath, a pause, a moment of presence. And if this episode resonated with you, then consider following the show and sharing it with someone who might need a little gentleness in their day. Until next time, take care of your mind, your heart, and white spaces within you. Then I am Shreya and this has been healing horizons. And do not forget to hit the follow button. Subscribe and feel free to share your thoughts because your ears deserve premium content. Thank you.