>> Steve Palmer: All right.
>> Steve Palmer: Lawyer Talk, off The Record, on the air.
>> Steve Palmer: They don't teach you that in Law School series. I got Troy Henrickson.
>> Steve Palmer: There's no d in there, is there?
>> Steve Palmer: No, no d is. It is a common mistake. Uh, so I got Troy with me.
>> Steve Palmer: Troy's a Law School or law student.
>> Steve Palmer: Over at Capitol University Law School. Uh, he works with me upstairs in the law firm where we represent folks charged with crimes and other areas. Um, but, you know, we sort of.
>> Steve Palmer: Found over the months that you've been.
>> Steve Palmer: Working there that you got lots of.
>> Steve Palmer: Good questions because they don't teach you.
>> Steve Palmer: All that in Law School, and you're getting real world experience, and this is not a knock on Law School. You got to start somewhere. Uh, but, you know, I think there's.
>> Steve Palmer: Some insight that can be had for law students and others who are interested.
>> Steve Palmer: In this kind of stuff. And we decided to bring down to.
>> Steve Palmer: The studio your questions from upstairs about.
>> Steve Palmer: What I'm doing, why I'm doing it. So, uh, that has hatched the. They don't teach you that in Law School Lawyer Talk series. Uh, by the way, if you've got.
>> Steve Palmer: Questions that you want us to cover.
>> Steve Palmer: Here at this series or anywhere else, I've got a q and a and.
>> Steve Palmer: Some other breakdown stuff going on, you can go to lawyertalkpodcast.com or you go.
>> Steve Palmer: To the socials, right.
>> Steve Palmer: Or the instance, wherever you can leave a comment.
>> Steve Palmer: We check those out, and, uh, we can respond. Uh, uh. So you will take questions anywhere, anyhow. Any, any, uh, way you want to leave them. Uh, uh, so today you had a question about voir deer.
>> Troy Henriksen: Voir dear. Uh, you pronounce a lot better than I do. I do voir deer. So I need to work on that.
>> Steve Palmer: Well, look, the pronunciation is all about where you're from. I was down in south working on a case last, or earlier this year in arkansas, and it was void.
>> Steve Palmer: Oh, nice voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, and, uh, I remember everybody's seen.
>> Steve Palmer: My cousin Vinnie, and the judge, I.
>> Steve Palmer: Think, pronounces it that way because that's down south. Uh, but, and everybody says it's to speak the truth.
>> Steve Palmer: That's not necessarily what it means. It's french, actually.
>> Steve Palmer: Voir means to see. Uh, and dear in french is, uh, to say, so, uh, to see, to say the idea. So, voir dire is a process where we lawyers get to pick a jury in open court. So, generally, here's what happens. We have say we got a trial, criminal trial scheduled in State court. Uh, the, the jury commissioner in the.
>> Steve Palmer: County will summons in jurors, typically from the voter rolls.
>> Steve Palmer: Now, believe it or not, I've had this. That's good. I've had this come up where not enough jurors show up, so they send out what's called a talisman. So, literally, I've had a bailiff, like, out walking around the street saying, hey, you, come on in. You're going to be a juror today. Uh, that's kind of crazy. And there's a process for that. There's some legal problems with that, but it can happen.
>> Troy Henriksen: Before you go any further on, how. How often do they send out bailiffs to do stuff? Because the other day I saw one at an apartment complex wearing a vest, like a bulletproof vest, and said, bailiff on it. And I was. What other? Like, I was mind blown.
>> Steve Palmer: I don't know. I mean, bailiffs are typically. They have. It's sort of a generic term for, like, a security person in the courtroom, sometimes a bailiff.
>> Steve Palmer: In Franklin County, a lot of times.
>> Steve Palmer: The bailiff is more like, they perform.
>> Steve Palmer: All sorts of roles, like admin type.
>> Steve Palmer: Roles, like, they help with the scheduling, they help with, um, the, uh, administration of the court, in all ways from clerical all the way up to maybe security. Sometimes bailiffs are just people that have. They wear a gun and a badge and they just keep the peace. And there's another sort of clerical secretary that does the other stuff. Just all depends. Um, I've had bailiffs on the scene.
>> Steve Palmer: Like that, maybe in jury views.
>> Steve Palmer: So this is a relevant question about voir dire. After voir dire, the case starts.
>> Steve Palmer: Sometimes we ask for a jury view.
>> Steve Palmer: Wherever will actually put jurors on buses and take them out to the scene of something relevant to the case. And we get to walk around and the bailiff will point out stuff to look at without saying anything.
>> Steve Palmer: Look over there, look over there.
>> Steve Palmer: And, uh, you know, that happens. So that might be why bailiff was at an apartment. I don't know.
>> Troy Henriksen: That's kind of cool. Little field trip for the jury.
>> Steve Palmer: That's like a field trip. Uh, but back to voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: So voir dire is the process by which we pick a jury.
>> Steve Palmer: So we. By picking a jury, the court, jury.
>> Steve Palmer: Commissioner, as I said, they summons in.
>> Steve Palmer: Jurors, and, you know, maybe in a normal case, you'll have, like, 25 or 30 to start with. And we're going to winnow that down to twelve, uh, plus maybe a couple alternates. So maybe, uh, 14. Sometimes you have more. So if you have a death penalty case, uh, or a big Media type case or maybe a case involving allegations of sexual abuse where, you know, it's going to be difficult to pick. A jury will say, look, we need.
>> Steve Palmer: More than the normal 30 here. Let's bring in 60 or let's bring in 100.
>> Steve Palmer: And, um, that way we have.
>> Steve Palmer: We know we're going to get to.
>> Steve Palmer: Be able to pick a jury. We're more likely to be able to pick a jury. So it all depends. But in a typical case, maybe 30.
>> Steve Palmer: Will come into the courtroom.
>> Steve Palmer: M. And we get, we being the.
>> Steve Palmer: Lawyers, get to ask the jurors questions. Now, this is in State court, in.
>> Steve Palmer: Federal court, and maybe some even other State court jurisdictions. Uh, the judge will restrict our ability to ask questions. The judge will maybe not let us ask questions, but maybe rather submit questions.
>> Steve Palmer: To the judge that the judge can.
>> Steve Palmer: Ask at the judge's discretion. Um, and, you know, in federal court, that's very limited voir dire. Now, why does that matter? Because we use voir dire not to.
>> Steve Palmer: Smoke out necessarily, problems with jurors.
>> Steve Palmer: So, look, if I had, let's see if you're on a jury and, or you're on the prospective jury panel and I start asking you questions, most of the time you're not going to. It's like, I don't, I can't read minds. You know, I'm not going to be able to figure out if you got some sort of inherent bias.
>> Steve Palmer: Sometimes I can.
>> Steve Palmer: So, you know, if, say it's a.
>> Steve Palmer: Child sex abuse case, has anybody here uncomfortable with child sex abuse cases, and.
>> Steve Palmer: You'Re going to get a bunch of hands, and it may be because it's an awful topic to talk about. It may be because you run into a victim, a juror who's been a victim of such things or knows somebody who's been a victim of such things.
>> Steve Palmer: And then, typically, will voir deer that.
>> Steve Palmer: Jury at sidebar or outside the presence.
>> Steve Palmer: Of the other jurors will ask that juror questions like, look, uh, tell us what your reticence here is. What's holding you back? Why don't you think you can be fair?
>> Steve Palmer: And they're going to say, well, I was a victim myself, and this topic, there's subject matter very difficult for me. I don't think I'd be able to give it a fair shake. And we say thanks. So we'll excuse that juror for cause.
>> Steve Palmer: Meaning there's a good reason the juror.
>> Steve Palmer: Says, I can't be fair. Um, another, while we're talking about excusing for cause, uh, there's cause challenges, meaning.
>> Steve Palmer: The juror can't be fair.
>> Steve Palmer: Maybe they're related to somebody who's gonna.
>> Steve Palmer: Be in the case.
>> Steve Palmer: Maybe they have a felony conviction. Uh, maybe they don't live in the County anymore. These are all cause challenges, meaning you can. That that juror has to go.
>> Steve Palmer: Then there's something called peremptory challenges, meaning I can kick a juror off for.
>> Steve Palmer: Because my gut tells me I don't like the juror. So those are limited. Typically get four in here in Frank County or here in Ohio. Um, so I don't, um. You know, I can. I can say I don't like that juror. I don't like the way that jury looks or that juror looks. Or maybe I feel like she's, uh.
>> Steve Palmer: Giving me the snake eyes or something.
>> Steve Palmer: So I'm like, I don't like that person. Or maybe the juror's spouse is a police officer. And I'm like, that's just too close to my.
>> Steve Palmer: Too close for comfort for me. So I'm going to kick that juror.
>> Steve Palmer: Off, uh, for no reason.
>> Troy Henriksen: So you get four. But do you always try for cause, no matter what, like, in my head, why don't I just try four? Cause, like, raise that argument. And if I lose?
>> Steve Palmer: Well, you do if you have it. So if I get a hand.
>> Steve Palmer: And here's what happened.
>> Steve Palmer: This is, this is a good. And I'll talk about my broader purpose.
>> Steve Palmer: Of voir deer in a second.
>> Steve Palmer: But if we're. If we're talking about the, like, the.
>> Steve Palmer: Technical purpose of woadir is to expose.
>> Steve Palmer: Cause type stuff or cause type challenges, or at least expose things that I don't like so I can make a peremptory challenge. But why would I not ever?
>> Steve Palmer: I mean, there's no reason never to.
>> Steve Palmer: Or there's no reason not to try.
>> Steve Palmer: To find a cause.
>> Steve Palmer: So, typically that would be, um, the juror just can't be fair. So I'll. Here's what. Here's what we run into all the.
>> Steve Palmer: Time in real life.
>> Steve Palmer: This is what they don't teach you in Law School. So, uh, a juror raises her hand, or his hand says, look, I can't. I. I've got a problem with this. I'd like to talk about it privately. So we talk about it on The Record, but privately, uh, and they say, look, I've been a victim of a crime before, and I just don't think, uh, I just want to let you know, well, here's what the judge always says, and here's what the prosecutor always says. Well, do you think you can set.
>> Steve Palmer: That aside and still be fair in this case?
>> Steve Palmer: Yeah, I think I can. And I'm thinking to myself what you've.
>> Steve Palmer: Just told me, you're a victim of the same crime that my clients charged with, and now you've told them that.
>> Steve Palmer: Yeah, but that doesn't matter. That's not going to affect my. It's not going to impact my ability to be fair in any way. And that's where I start to pro. I would say things like, look, I want to put this in perspective for you because you've told us you were.
>> Steve Palmer: A victim of a crime.
>> Steve Palmer: Tell us about that. I know it's uncomfortable, but please give me a little bit of information about it. Well, that's interesting, because it's the same here. So you're going to hear almost identical testimony, except my client says he didn't do it. What is that, uh, like, now you're thinking. And, uh. Or I'll just say something like, I'll.
>> Steve Palmer: Be very clear about.
>> Steve Palmer: It's like, I'll tell you what I'm worried about, is that you think right now you can be fair, but put yourself in the moment and really explore that with me for a second. Do you think you might be inclined to say, well, look, man, the guy.
>> Steve Palmer: In my case said he didn't do.
>> Steve Palmer: It, too, but I know he did. That's probably what's going on here.
>> Steve Palmer: And sometimes you'll get a juror to.
>> Steve Palmer: Say, you know what? On second thought, you're right. I probably shouldn't be on this case. And then you get a four cause challenge. Otherwise, you gotta burn a peremptory. Um, but so that's like, the first.
>> Steve Palmer: Purpose of Wadir is for the lawyers in the court and everybody to get.
>> Steve Palmer: Sort of an idea of whether the juror generally should be sitting on the panel. But there's a bigger purpose. So there's an art of trial advocacy, meaning being a good trial lawyer, uh, is, like I always say, it's like a play that we write. Um, and it's not a movie, it's a play, because it's dynamic. The audience can change your interaction with, uh, the actors. You know, if it's a dead audience or whatever, like a concert, it's a dead audience. It's not going to be as good. If it's a live audience, might be better. You might get hecklers.
>> Steve Palmer: I mean, who knows?
>> Steve Palmer: But. So it's like a play. It's dynamic.
>> Steve Palmer: It can change in real Time. It's not just a script.
>> Steve Palmer: It starts with a script, but it has to be modified artistically as I go along. Uh, uh. And one of the first interactions, I.
>> Steve Palmer: Say one of them because when I.
>> Steve Palmer: Tell, when I tell my clients, look, we're going to trial today, that means it starts last week, you know, so I'll have this conversation a week before at our final pre trial or something. I mean, look, you don't know when.
>> Steve Palmer: You'Re walking into this courthouse who's going.
>> Steve Palmer: To be on your jury. You don't know. It might be that person. Might be that person. Might be that person over there. Now, if they see you, um, um, uh, uh, screaming at somebody on the way in, or if they see you.
>> Steve Palmer: In a road rage incident trying to.
>> Steve Palmer: Park because you're late for court, uh, uh. If they see you acting in a bad way, you're never going to know. So the trial starts literally the week before, or even more than that, as we're trying to figure out who's going to be on our jury, because you don't want to expose yourself as being a jackass, uh, to somebody who might later sit on your jury. So at a minimum, it starts the morning of, as we're walking into court. We do it professionally. We do it courtesy, courteously. Sometimes there's a perp walk where there's cameras.
>> Steve Palmer: I've done this many times where I'm.
>> Steve Palmer: Walking in with my client on the camera and everybody's everywhere. And it's really easy to get flustered, but we just gotta stiff upper lip walk right in. Um, so we're already portraying what we want the jurors to see and to hear. Um, and we don't want to create any, uh, inherent dislike, um, by any juror just because we acted like an.
>> Steve Palmer: Idiot on the way into court or.
>> Steve Palmer: We screamed at the security guard because we didn't feel like they should search our bags. So that starts right away, the perp walk.
>> Troy Henriksen: Like, do you do the, uh, what is the one that I always see celebrities do where they put the hoodie over top, their face and stuff like that?
>> Steve Palmer: But I don't do that. And look, I've had clients, very high publicity clients, and I don't do that. I'm like, look, everybody knows who that person is. Everybody knows there's going to be photo ops.
>> Steve Palmer: And you might as well just stand there. I'm not going to say be proud.
>> Steve Palmer: Because pride's a, uh, got its own problems. But look, this is what it is. We're not going to run from it. We're not going to hide from it. The Media is interested in you. We're not going to bask in it. We're just going to get through it. We're going to walk right through it.
>> Steve Palmer: And we're not going to have any comment.
>> Steve Palmer: And that's that. That will get a lot less attention, in my humble opinion, than somebody trying to hide from it.
>> Troy Henriksen: Yeah.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, so we get to the courtroom.
>> Steve Palmer: And now the jurors come in, and now advocacy sort of formally begins. So when I say good morning, I do it in a very calculated way.
>> Steve Palmer: When I talk to the jurors in voir dire, I do it in a very calculated way.
>> Steve Palmer: I have the themes and theories of my defense. What I'm going to do in this.
>> Steve Palmer: Trial, already up here on my paper.
>> Steve Palmer: Incorporated into my very being as I.
>> Steve Palmer: Present this case, if my defense is indignancy because of some outrage by a corrupt police officer, well, that may change how I handle myself in a courtroom.
>> Steve Palmer: If it's something where I'm looking for sympathy, that may change my tone. All of it matters because, as my mentor, my late, great mentor, used to say, we begin to weave the theories.
>> Steve Palmer: And themes of our case at the.
>> Steve Palmer: Very first opportunity with the jury. And that means when I'm doing voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: So when I'm asked if I have.
>> Steve Palmer: A self defense case, I tried to.
>> Steve Palmer: Self defense case in, um, hocking County a couple of years ago. I voir dared about how many people own a home? Who owns a home, you know, and then you start to get to.
>> Steve Palmer: Has anybody ever heard about your home as your castle? What does that mean?
>> Steve Palmer: Why does it mean that? And then, you know, you can start.
>> Steve Palmer: Talking about how many jurors own firearms.
>> Steve Palmer: And what that means, what they.
>> Steve Palmer: Whatever it is, these are obvious ones.
>> Steve Palmer: There's more subtle things you can do. You can talk about how they. How they would look at somebody and whether. And how they. How they might ascertain whether somebody's credible. Um, but the idea is to sort.
>> Steve Palmer: Of plant the seeds of your defense.
>> Steve Palmer: Through the questioning during voir dire, at.
>> Steve Palmer: The same time, not run afoul of the rules that the court has put in place.
>> Steve Palmer: Because here's what we never do.
>> Steve Palmer: We never indoctrinate a jury. We're not allowed to indoctrinate a jury. Remember that. We can't indoctrinate a jury. So in theory, we're not allowed to.
>> Steve Palmer: Plant the seeds of our case.
>> Steve Palmer: In practice, it's a cat and mouse game.
>> Steve Palmer: We want the jurors to know what we're going to later argue because they hear it. They hear the seeds get planted during voir dire, and then we start to.
>> Steve Palmer: Water them throughout the case.
>> Steve Palmer: So, uh, during cross examination, if I expect to talk to a police officer about something, uh, he did wrong, then.
>> Steve Palmer: I might talk to the jurors in voir dire about what kind of police.
>> Steve Palmer: Work they would expect if they or a loved one they know would be accused of a crime. Um, and how would it make them.
>> Steve Palmer: Feel if the police didn't follow their rules?
>> Steve Palmer: How would it make them feel if the police planted evidence in their case? Because I know later on, five days.
>> Steve Palmer: Later, I'm going to be asking the.
>> Steve Palmer: Lead cop about something like that. So are, ah, the jurors immediately going to say, all right, I remember them.
>> Steve Palmer: Talking about in voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: Maybe not, but at least the seed is planted. And if it's planted, then it can grow. And once it starts to grow, then, uh, I can rely on it, and.
>> Steve Palmer: It gets a little bit more substance.
>> Steve Palmer: By the time I get to closing argument, they've now heard it three times.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, or four or however many witnesses.
>> Steve Palmer: I can bring it out.
>> Steve Palmer: So voir dire is the Time and.
>> Steve Palmer: The place where I get to start.
>> Steve Palmer: Presenting my defense under the guise, at the same Time, of picking a fair jury.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, and you can do both, and.
>> Steve Palmer: You can do both within the rules. I'm not talking about breaking the rules, but you can do both within the rules. It is an art form that they.
>> Steve Palmer: Cannot and do not teach you in Law School. Now, Law School, have you, have you had trial advocacy yet?
>> Troy Henriksen: It's not mandatory anymore, but I was planning on taking it next year. You knock out all your bar stuff the first two years, so.
>> Steve Palmer: Gotcha.
>> Steve Palmer: So trial advocacy is really the class.
>> Steve Palmer: In Law School where they teach you how to try a case. I mean, they teach you the basics, the nuts and bolts, and it's sort of like, um, I don't say Einstein, because that's, like, overplayed, maybe a little bit more like experts in their field got that way by doing it by the Book initially. So I teach all the Time.
>> Steve Palmer: I would lecture on evidence, trial evidence.
>> Steve Palmer: To, uh, the bar associations. And the first thing I tell everybody.
>> Steve Palmer: Learn the damn rules.
>> Steve Palmer: Because, you know, Law School, nobody wants to memorize rule names and numbers. They don't want to do it because it's hard.
>> Steve Palmer: Learn the damn rules. And if you learn the rules, you can follow the rules and learn how to follow the rules. And once you know the rules, you.
>> Steve Palmer: Can learn how to break them. And same with, like, you can learn where the.
>> Steve Palmer: Where there's play in the joints to.
>> Steve Palmer: Get evidence into in front of the courtroom. Um, and trial is that way, too.
>> Steve Palmer: Learn how to cross examination and learn.
>> Steve Palmer: How to cross examine witnesses in a very clinical way. Ask leading questions only don't ask questions you don't know the answer to.
>> Steve Palmer: Learn the rules, follow the rules. And then one day, you're going to be swimming along, and you're going to.
>> Steve Palmer: Realize, wait a minute, I can backstroke.
>> Steve Palmer: I can go this way.
>> Steve Palmer: If I just flutter a little bit.
>> Steve Palmer: Here, then I can do this.
>> Steve Palmer: You start to realize that, but you can only. You got to walk before you got to crawl before you can walk. And if you too many young lawyers.
>> Steve Palmer: Try to skip ahead and do it.
>> Steve Palmer: The way they see it on tv or do it the way they see.
>> Steve Palmer: Their mentor do it, you can't. You got to learn and do it by the Book, and it's okay.
>> Steve Palmer: And if you just do that, you're.
>> Steve Palmer: Going to be light years ahead of everybody else who's not doing that.
>> Steve Palmer: But then one day, the light bulb will come on. You'd be like, ah, uh, now I get it, and you can go become your own person.
>> Steve Palmer: It's like, it's an art.
>> Steve Palmer: And I've argued. I took classical guitar for a number of years. I used to argue with my. Not argue, but we discuss with my instructor on this.
>> Steve Palmer: I was like, look, it's an art. And he's like, now it's law. I was like, no, it's an art.
>> Steve Palmer: There's art to this, and it's like.
>> Steve Palmer: Music in a lot of ways in music theory. Learn the rules of music theory, and you're going to be infinitely ahead of everybody else. And then guess what's going to happen?
>> Steve Palmer: You'll learn how to break the rules of music theory, and it opens up, like, this stratosphere of musical creativity that.
>> Steve Palmer: You never knew existed.
>> Steve Palmer: You just understood you have a basis to do it.
>> Steve Palmer: Learn the rules, and then learn how to transcend the rules and be a good trial lawyer.
>> Steve Palmer: And for purposes of a jury trial.
>> Steve Palmer: That starts at voir dire in a.
>> Steve Palmer: Lot of ways, actually, it starts at trial prep.
>> Steve Palmer: So you know what to do in voir dire, and that's probably worthy of.
>> Steve Palmer: Talking about real quick. So we have, uh, the idea is.
>> Steve Palmer: I am presenting my themes and theories of the defense at voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: And, uh, to be sure, there are things that I talk about in almost every criminal case, but there are lots of stuff that are unique to the case that I'm working on. So that implicitly requires preparation. So I've been asked to help people.
>> Steve Palmer: Prepare for trials, and I've got consulting. Check us out at criminal defense consultants.
>> Steve Palmer: But we consult people and they're like.
>> Steve Palmer: Let'S start with Woadir, because we want.
>> Steve Palmer: To know how to pick a jury. No, let's start with the facts of your case, and then we're going to.
>> Steve Palmer: Develop some themes and theories of your case.
>> Steve Palmer: Then we're going to test those with a focus group. And then once we get feedback on those, we're going to go back and plug those themes and theories in to our case.
>> Steve Palmer: And that's what your voir dire becomes.
>> Steve Palmer: It's not, uh, a static process. Uh, we need to know what our.
>> Steve Palmer: Themes and theories are.
>> Steve Palmer: Look, you're going to talk about self.
>> Steve Palmer: Defense in a self defense case.
>> Steve Palmer: That's obviously. But what about a situation where, um, you know, maybe there's a little bit of police misconduct?
>> Steve Palmer: You know, I might not necessarily voir.
>> Steve Palmer: Dire on that unless it's a theme and theory of my case, or if it's, um, there's emotional abuse in a marriage. You know, I might, I might start.
>> Steve Palmer: To weave that in a little bit into my voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: And, uh, because later, when it gets exposed, now they've heard it twice. So in order to prepare for voir.
>> Steve Palmer: Dire, you gotta prepare for your case. In order to prepare for your case.
>> Steve Palmer: You gotta do the work. You gotta learn it, you gotta live it, you gotta know it.
>> Troy Henriksen: So whenever you're preparing, though, and you're gonna present to the envoy dirt, what's the limit of not indoctrinating them? Like, what is, what's too far?
>> Steve Palmer: When you hear objection and the judge says, sustained.
>> Troy Henriksen: Okay.
>> Steve Palmer: Um, look here. It's a good question, though, and I think maybe I, maybe a law professor did tell me this, but it's sort of, uh, it needs to be said. I always ask, if I go into a courtroom, even my backyard over here at Franklin County, I will always ask somebody who knows, how's this judge on board here? What can I do? What can't I do? I don't want to walk into a.
>> Steve Palmer: Situation where I don't know the rules, because there are the rules that are written, and then there's the rules in practice.
>> Steve Palmer: And it may be as, um, rudimentary as understanding the mechanics of how that.
>> Steve Palmer: Judge conducts voir dir.
>> Steve Palmer: Do they put, does that judge put.
>> Steve Palmer: Twelve jurors initially in the jury box, and I can only ask them questions.
>> Steve Palmer: Without talking to the other prospective jurors or does the judge expect me to.
>> Steve Palmer: Ask all the jurors at the same time? Some judges play monkey move up.
>> Steve Palmer: So if I kick one out on.
>> Steve Palmer: A peremptory or cause challenge out of.
>> Steve Palmer: The jury box, it's very helpful to know who's coming next, because you don't want to get out of the frying.
>> Steve Palmer: Pan into the fryer.
>> Steve Palmer: So if you've got a cop coming up and you kick somebody out and.
>> Steve Palmer: It'S your last peremptory challenge, you know there's going to be a cop on your jury.
>> Steve Palmer: Like, watch out. And you need to know how the judge does voir dire in order to make those decisions. But you also want to know, I always ask somebody, maybe another, uh, public.
>> Steve Palmer: Uh, defenders are a great resource because.
>> Steve Palmer: They try tons of cases. I'd go to a public defender and say, what's a judge like on voir dire? Am I going to be able to do this type of thing or that type of thing? Am I going to be able to get away with asking these questions? And you're going to get answers across the board.
>> Steve Palmer: Some judges are very liberal, and they.
>> Steve Palmer: Love it, seeing a good, creative voir dire.
>> Steve Palmer: Other judges are very strict, and they.
>> Steve Palmer: Hate it, and they're going to stop you.
>> Steve Palmer: I always try to avoid being reprimanded.
>> Steve Palmer: In open court for something that I could have prevented. So how far is too far? I almost always know when I'm going.
>> Steve Palmer: Too far, and I'll dial it back, because you can sense it in the.
>> Steve Palmer: Room, like, you can see the prosecutor about to jump up, or you can just feel that the judge is about to intervene. So I'll back off and go a different direction. Again. That's experience that they can't teach you in Law School.
>> Troy Henriksen: No.
>> Steve Palmer: So, all right, well, look, if you got questions, you got comments about the.
>> Steve Palmer: Voir dire process, you think you can do it?
>> Steve Palmer: You think you can hang, uh, uh.
>> Steve Palmer: With the Lawyer Talk crowd, shoot us.
>> Steve Palmer: A comment and, uh, ask us a question, or if you want us to discuss something, I'd be happy to do it. Uh, uh. Till now, Troy is bringing us, uh, uh, lots of questions, and, uh, uh.
>> Steve Palmer: We'Re more than willing to answer yours, too.
>> Steve Palmer: You can check us out at Lawyer Talk podcast on all the socials. Uh, uh, leave comments like share, subscribe. We appreciate it.
>> Steve Palmer: This is Lawyer Talk Off The Record, on the air.
>> Steve Palmer: They don't teach you that in Law School, at least not today.