With me today is uh Ben Orellano and Saso Mendez.
2
00:00:03,589 --> 00:00:07,112
These guys are some of my best friends in ministry.
3
00:00:07,112 --> 00:00:10,974
I can honestly say that they're like friends to the point of family.
4
00:00:10,974 --> 00:00:13,156
They can call me in the middle of the night.
5
00:00:13,156 --> 00:00:16,978
ah They know the last four of my social as Saso would say.
6
00:00:17,059 --> 00:00:21,392
And uh they've also started this incredible podcast called Abundant Life Podcast.
7
00:00:21,392 --> 00:00:24,555
And so I'm really glad to be collaborating a little bit together today.
8
00:00:24,555 --> 00:00:25,465
Why don't you guys tell me.
9
00:00:25,465 --> 00:00:26,252
uh
10
00:00:26,252 --> 00:00:28,423
You know, why did you start abundant life podcast?
11
00:00:28,423 --> 00:00:29,920
Where can our listeners find it?
12
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,636
Uh, what is it all about?
13
00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:36,073
Well, abundant life podcast and we found abundant life FM.
14
00:00:36,374 --> 00:00:41,718
But I think it was a don't know, maybe God brought us together at the right time to do the
podcast.
15
00:00:41,718 --> 00:00:53,929
And funny that it was during covid where we had more time to, you know, do things and
really Ben's the brains behind the operation of putting it all together and the audio part
16
00:00:53,929 --> 00:00:56,981
of it and uh kind of our ideas merged to what we wanted to do.
17
00:00:56,981 --> 00:01:00,254
We sat down and we really wanted to help people.
18
00:01:00,354 --> 00:01:06,879
have a deeper relationship with God and discipleship and even use it as a tool for
evangelism.
19
00:01:07,259 --> 00:01:11,372
And where it's at today is nowhere where we thought it would go initially.
20
00:01:11,372 --> 00:01:21,450
And now it's kind of gone over the world and not an exaggeration because radio podcasts,
you can broadcast it out.
21
00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:23,921
much more so than you could radio back in the day.
22
00:01:23,921 --> 00:01:27,150
You don't need a ham radio or an antenna.
23
00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:32,114
I just think it was a vision God uh laid on our hearts at different times.
24
00:01:32,114 --> 00:01:41,767
He brought it together and it's been, I feel, successful to where we wanted it to be and
even beyond my wildest dreams of where God has taken it.
25
00:01:41,767 --> 00:01:43,238
And Ben, would you?
26
00:01:43,478 --> 00:01:44,385
Yeah, I would agree.
27
00:01:44,385 --> 00:01:46,806
mean, it was, was a
28
00:01:46,806 --> 00:01:48,117
something that God laid on my heart.
29
00:01:48,117 --> 00:01:52,397
I think, you know, God was working on Saso's hard at the same time as we move through.
30
00:01:52,397 --> 00:01:54,179
And there's a really interesting story all behind it.
31
00:01:54,179 --> 00:02:00,713
Like there's there's actually one of our podcast episodes called Abundant Friends, and it
kind of talks about how we collaborated and the whole backstory.
32
00:02:00,713 --> 00:02:01,953
And it's just a really cool episode.
33
00:02:01,953 --> 00:02:04,634
If you guys want to check it out just to get some further detail.
34
00:02:04,634 --> 00:02:14,709
But uh what I would say is, yeah, I didn't imagine that the podcast would would grow and
not that we're like doing crazy numbers, but it's really cool because, uh you know, we
35
00:02:14,709 --> 00:02:16,760
have uh statistics and we also have
36
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,072
like geo location of where the podcast is going.
37
00:02:19,072 --> 00:02:25,206
There's so it's it's it's gone into like China like it's gone into some places where I'd
like I'm like Germany like.
38
00:02:25,518 --> 00:02:28,229
You don't even speak like those languages, you know what I mean?
39
00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:30,280
And it's going there somehow.
40
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,241
I have no clue who's listening to it.
41
00:02:32,241 --> 00:02:34,592
I'm in God can do whatever right?
42
00:02:34,592 --> 00:02:35,122
God can.
43
00:02:35,122 --> 00:02:44,297
mean, you look at just even like the day of Pentecost and, you know, apostles had the
flames and they were talking in people's languages and their own native tongues and not
44
00:02:44,297 --> 00:02:47,288
saying that that's what's happening, but God can do whatever he wants.
45
00:02:47,288 --> 00:02:49,189
And he can take this podcast wherever he wants.
46
00:02:49,189 --> 00:02:50,580
So we're very thankful.
47
00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:51,790
I'm thankful to be part of it.
48
00:02:51,790 --> 00:02:54,422
Thankful that we get to do this every time we record an episode.
49
00:02:54,422 --> 00:02:55,492
I'm I get up.
50
00:02:55,492 --> 00:02:56,042
get excited.
51
00:02:56,042 --> 00:02:56,823
Like I get excited.
52
00:02:56,823 --> 00:02:57,903
I get to share God's word.
53
00:02:57,903 --> 00:03:00,554
I get to talk about things that I love talking about.
54
00:03:00,554 --> 00:03:07,517
oh And so that's kind of our slogan, encouraging and challenging Christians to spiritual
change and growth by applying biblical principles to everyday life.
55
00:03:07,517 --> 00:03:09,422
And that's exactly what we're trying to do.
56
00:03:09,422 --> 00:03:11,342
And that was pre chat GBT.
57
00:03:11,342 --> 00:03:11,982
You know what I mean?
58
00:03:11,982 --> 00:03:13,182
That's a legit saying.
59
00:03:13,182 --> 00:03:14,022
Yeah.
60
00:03:15,442 --> 00:03:15,682
Yeah.
61
00:03:15,682 --> 00:03:16,122
Yeah.
62
00:03:16,122 --> 00:03:17,602
I put some time into that.
63
00:03:18,322 --> 00:03:19,262
Yeah.
64
00:03:19,282 --> 00:03:21,642
That was before back in the day.
65
00:03:21,671 --> 00:03:23,004
also GPT.
66
00:03:24,051 --> 00:03:26,017
So people can find it everywhere, right?
67
00:03:26,017 --> 00:03:27,426
uh
68
00:03:27,426 --> 00:03:28,427
Yeah, abundant life.
69
00:03:28,427 --> 00:03:29,347
FM is the website.
70
00:03:29,347 --> 00:03:30,417
You can get all of our show notes.
71
00:03:30,417 --> 00:03:31,839
You can get episodes there.
72
00:03:31,839 --> 00:03:34,200
But yeah, you just look on like Apple or wherever it is.
73
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,251
You get your podcast and it's pretty much.
74
00:03:36,251 --> 00:03:37,131
Yeah, it's pretty much on.
75
00:03:37,131 --> 00:03:39,813
I think I heart Spotify.
76
00:03:39,973 --> 00:03:45,336
Just look for abundant life and you'll see the, you know, the uh light behind me.
77
00:03:45,336 --> 00:03:46,096
That's our logo.
78
00:03:46,096 --> 00:03:49,474
So just look for that logo and you will you'll find us.
79
00:03:49,474 --> 00:03:53,294
Yeah, so let's start with Saso here.
80
00:03:53,294 --> 00:04:00,160
Saso, tell us a little bit, what do you do, what's your vocation, ah what ministries are
you involved in right now?
81
00:04:00,570 --> 00:04:09,648
So occasionally I work at USA claims manager there manager claims operations is my
official title uh That's a way to make money.
82
00:04:09,648 --> 00:04:19,707
So I'm not too You know too interested in talking about that per se But I am thankful for
the job and that's a whole nother story of how God worked to give me that job And so when
83
00:04:19,707 --> 00:04:27,576
I walk in there, I try to thank them because I Asked for that job many times and so I try
to
84
00:04:27,576 --> 00:04:30,156
put that more thankfulness every time I walk through there.
85
00:04:30,156 --> 00:04:32,102
ah
86
00:04:32,106 --> 00:04:34,808
place to be right like it's really hard to get that job.
87
00:04:34,808 --> 00:04:46,156
Correct, I mean I applied for year and half maybe more than 30 rejections like I did in
high school, you So yeah, there was a lot of rejections and but I'm persistent So I just
88
00:04:46,156 --> 00:04:57,343
kept applying for anything loan officer security guard, whatever they would up, you know
Post I would apply and then one day God just said, okay It's your it's your time and it's
89
00:04:57,343 --> 00:05:04,338
funny because one day I went by there to get a tux fitted for my friend who's getting
married and
90
00:05:04,622 --> 00:05:08,122
I saw the USA gates and I told my son I took a picture of it.
91
00:05:08,122 --> 00:05:16,002
I sent it to my wife and I said maybe one day and then a month later God answered my
prayer to get an interview there and then here we are.
92
00:05:16,002 --> 00:05:18,962
And so I'm very thankful for the job.
93
00:05:18,962 --> 00:05:25,562
But the most important things I think that I do, I would say the podcast, I do, you know,
write a devotional blog.
94
00:05:25,562 --> 00:05:28,102
I don't write as much anymore for that.
95
00:05:28,102 --> 00:05:29,902
Just it's time consuming.
96
00:05:30,602 --> 00:05:32,736
What's staying the fight dot online.
97
00:05:32,736 --> 00:05:39,734
If you are interested in checking that out, that comes out daily, unless I'm in the Grand
Canyon and don't have access to internet or 5G.
98
00:05:39,734 --> 00:05:44,298
And that's one thing, those are just personal projects and I think.
99
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,752
as a ministry of Northwest Valley.
100
00:05:48,053 --> 00:05:55,079
We do the Freedom at Last and Ben and I do that as well and our wives are involved in that
ministry.
101
00:05:55,079 --> 00:05:58,202
And that's probably the biggest ministry in my life.
102
00:05:58,202 --> 00:06:01,424
I mean, I'm part of the Gideons, but kinda scaled that back.
103
00:06:01,845 --> 00:06:02,685
do.
104
00:06:02,828 --> 00:06:11,751
You know scripture reading this small little things, you know, whatever I got out of the
ushering because that's it wasn't my favorite thing to do I was always late and they
105
00:06:11,751 --> 00:06:26,815
charge you maybe you should just step down and Deacon and but I think most important to me
is freedom that last week is hit ten years of ministry there at Northwest and but I look
106
00:06:26,815 --> 00:06:30,230
forward to every Friday night and when they passionate initially
107
00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:31,321
Introduced that to me.
108
00:06:31,321 --> 00:06:41,689
He said it's gonna be every Friday and I thought not not a big deal Until it became every
Friday and then I'm like, wow, like this is not what I really really thought it was And
109
00:06:41,689 --> 00:06:48,085
then now it's I can't imagine like I'm in the Grand Canyon, know We're in the hotel
getting ready for our trip and I'm like man.
110
00:06:48,085 --> 00:06:57,973
wonder what's going on there at this time use you here Ben's probably presenting the
message at, you know, 725 730 and I'm just thinking about it And so it's become such such
111
00:06:57,973 --> 00:06:59,474
a big part of my life
112
00:06:59,650 --> 00:07:02,430
And then I can think of all the people that.
113
00:07:02,626 --> 00:07:10,578
you know, that God has brought into your life through that ministry and people that are no
longer even here on this earth, that he's allowed you to be a piece of their life.
114
00:07:10,578 --> 00:07:17,753
And I'd like to think that that ministry has been pivotal to them spiritually to help them
grow.
115
00:07:17,753 --> 00:07:29,037
And I was just looking at an old devotional to post about John Slaback, who I got to know
over six months and he was going to church and he wanted to grow and he was excited and he
116
00:07:29,037 --> 00:07:29,458
died.
117
00:07:29,458 --> 00:07:30,578
God took him.
118
00:07:30,626 --> 00:07:35,771
but we developed that friendship in six months and just to see God work and then that was
it.
119
00:07:35,771 --> 00:07:41,516
And God knew this is the last six months of his life and he allowed me to be part of that.
120
00:07:42,237 --> 00:07:53,117
That time in his life, the very end and to see him grow and you know people when we do
Freedom at Last and we have people on the podcast like my cousin Tony, we see people at
121
00:07:53,117 --> 00:07:56,510
this stage and we don't see them at.
122
00:07:56,758 --> 00:08:05,011
You know the years and years of struggling we see them when they're ready to get help
Yeah, I think that's the beauty of freedom that lasts as we see people For the most part
123
00:08:05,011 --> 00:08:13,653
that are ready to change and then we get to see God work in their lives and it's just like
you know your daughter's gonna graduate and you're gonna sit there and you're gonna see
124
00:08:13,653 --> 00:08:22,836
the PowerPoint go of her life and you're gonna get emotional and maybe cry because you
just like wow, what did how did where did that come from?
125
00:08:22,924 --> 00:08:27,937
And even here when we see people baptize or people accept Christ through the exchange,
which we'll get into later.
126
00:08:27,937 --> 00:08:38,803
I mean, it's just like, wow, God, just to see how God works and everybody individual lives
and everybody has a story and we don't all come from fentanyl addiction and things like
127
00:08:38,803 --> 00:08:39,043
that.
128
00:08:39,043 --> 00:08:43,325
But we do come from a sin addiction that God says, hey, I want to restore you.
129
00:08:43,325 --> 00:08:49,528
want you going to sit at my table like my fit, but shut right and eat for the rest of your
life, all eternity with me.
130
00:08:49,528 --> 00:08:52,350
And man, what a powerful thing to experience.
131
00:08:52,427 --> 00:08:53,788
That's amazing.
132
00:08:54,029 --> 00:08:57,033
So um Ben, tell us vocationally what you do.
133
00:08:57,033 --> 00:09:02,924
You've been involved in a lot of different ministries at Northwest Valley over the years,
so tell us a little bit about that.
134
00:09:02,924 --> 00:09:09,538
Yeah, before I get into that, I would just say one more thing to this also didn't say, but
he did say he didn't want to talk about his location much.
135
00:09:09,538 --> 00:09:14,151
But I would say that that is a ministry uh because he has minister to his employees.
136
00:09:14,151 --> 00:09:15,782
He's a manager at USA.
137
00:09:15,782 --> 00:09:16,152
Yes.
138
00:09:16,152 --> 00:09:18,744
And we've had actually people come to FTL.
139
00:09:18,744 --> 00:09:22,267
And I know that there's people that he's ministering praying about even at this moment.
140
00:09:22,267 --> 00:09:25,439
And so it's definitely that's a ministry, I think, in and of itself.
141
00:09:25,439 --> 00:09:27,266
But just that I would point that out.
142
00:09:27,266 --> 00:09:29,006
walked me out to my car tonight.
143
00:09:29,006 --> 00:09:30,046
I gotta go bro.
144
00:09:30,046 --> 00:09:31,518
I gotta go do the do a podcast
145
00:09:31,518 --> 00:09:36,190
I mean, okay, and I saw you lunch with Marty yesterday and I know he's he's you know
Somebody that you pray for and stuff.
146
00:09:36,190 --> 00:09:43,142
So, um, so yeah, I'm I vocationally I do I'm a software developer um And I I enjoy doing
it.
147
00:09:43,142 --> 00:09:51,815
I'm kind of like Saso said I I did that all day today's don't don't necessarily want to
spend a lot of time on that But um, but yeah, so what do I do at the church?
148
00:09:51,815 --> 00:09:54,006
So yeah, I've done I've done a few things
149
00:09:54,220 --> 00:09:59,271
My background is mostly technical and computers and things like that.
150
00:09:59,472 --> 00:10:07,154
when I first started attending church there, I did a lot of like, know, wiring network
cables and fixing computers and things like that.
151
00:10:07,154 --> 00:10:10,955
And then it morphed into, okay, now I'm, you know, administering the website.
152
00:10:11,055 --> 00:10:17,656
Then I started, you know, dabbling into marketing, started doing some of the Facebook ads,
some of the Instagram ads, things like that.
153
00:10:17,837 --> 00:10:19,877
I've been a deacon of the church.
154
00:10:19,877 --> 00:10:22,858
um I've served in the youth group.
155
00:10:23,438 --> 00:10:28,921
And then recently just serving in uh FTL, Freedom at Last with Saso.
156
00:10:28,981 --> 00:10:36,165
That just became about with our relationship as we grew closer and as we uh started the
podcast.
157
00:10:36,165 --> 00:10:39,286
It was cool to serve with those that you love to hang out with.
158
00:10:39,286 --> 00:10:44,679
So it's fun to do ministry with Saso because we're a lot alike.
159
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:45,459
It's pretty wild.
160
00:10:45,459 --> 00:10:46,900
We probably could.
161
00:10:47,022 --> 00:10:47,692
has for brothers.
162
00:10:47,692 --> 00:10:49,703
And that's funny because a lot of people think we are brothers.
163
00:10:49,703 --> 00:10:52,685
In fact, a lot of people think I'm Saso and he's he's me.
164
00:10:52,685 --> 00:10:53,925
And we even have a term for it.
165
00:10:53,925 --> 00:10:57,767
So because yeah, because it's just people sometimes confused.
166
00:10:57,767 --> 00:10:59,147
I think already.
167
00:10:59,147 --> 00:11:00,528
So yeah, it was funny.
168
00:11:00,528 --> 00:11:05,230
Rebecca, when I brought me Saso's badge for soft for freedom and last, I'm like, wait a
minute, I'm not Saso.
169
00:11:05,230 --> 00:11:06,130
Yeah.
170
00:11:06,711 --> 00:11:08,287
But uh so I enjoy it.
171
00:11:08,287 --> 00:11:09,632
I love I love ministering.
172
00:11:09,632 --> 00:11:10,903
It's it's a it's a blast.
173
00:11:10,903 --> 00:11:11,633
It's fun.
174
00:11:11,633 --> 00:11:12,824
Discipleship is fun to me.
175
00:11:12,824 --> 00:11:13,314
I love it.
176
00:11:13,314 --> 00:11:14,214
um
177
00:11:14,478 --> 00:11:18,238
Got to sit down with one of my basketball players today, so I coach basketball.
178
00:11:18,718 --> 00:11:21,898
Unfortunately, I think it's maybe one of my last years.
179
00:11:21,898 --> 00:11:22,778
don't know yet.
180
00:11:22,778 --> 00:11:26,558
Whatever the Lord has for me, it's just my time is very limited right now.
181
00:11:26,558 --> 00:11:28,678
do have a, I also have a business.
182
00:11:28,678 --> 00:11:32,218
Not necessarily, I don't want to go into all of that either, but time is just limited.
183
00:11:32,758 --> 00:11:33,398
But.
184
00:11:33,462 --> 00:11:38,945
I love basketball, love coaching, and it's like I was talking to my basketball player
today and just telling him like, like I love the sport.
185
00:11:38,945 --> 00:11:39,755
It's a great sport.
186
00:11:39,755 --> 00:11:41,566
And I love being out there and playing with the guys.
187
00:11:41,566 --> 00:11:46,058
But to me, coaching basketball, it's a vehicle for discipleship.
188
00:11:46,058 --> 00:11:47,949
get to, I get to talk to these boys.
189
00:11:47,949 --> 00:11:49,609
I get to have an influence and speak into their lives.
190
00:11:49,609 --> 00:11:53,711
And then I got to do that today with him and that was, it was, uh, it was fulfilling to do
that.
191
00:11:53,711 --> 00:11:59,614
Um, you know, the, basketball stuff is fun, you know, and winning games, it's a blast.
192
00:11:59,844 --> 00:12:03,376
but just being able to be a part of somebody's life and make a change in somebody's
193
00:12:03,376 --> 00:12:05,037
his life or an impact on somebody's life.
194
00:12:05,037 --> 00:12:09,321
And he said, you know, he's like, you and coach use have had the biggest impact in my
life.
195
00:12:09,321 --> 00:12:12,244
And I'm just like, wow, that's just what do you say to that?
196
00:12:12,244 --> 00:12:15,206
Like, praise God, because it's and I told him, like, it's not me, bro.
197
00:12:15,206 --> 00:12:16,928
Like, I'm just a filthy sinner.
198
00:12:16,928 --> 00:12:19,140
Like, it's the Lord is God that works through me.
199
00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:20,431
I don't it's not me.
200
00:12:20,912 --> 00:12:23,834
So, yeah, that's that's kind of me in a nutshell there.
201
00:12:23,838 --> 00:12:33,072
You know, I love that because this is the sixth interview we've done on gospel talks We
interviewed four pastors interviewed cody you guys just got done interviewing cody and
202
00:12:33,072 --> 00:12:43,667
then um now we're interviewing you guys and The the first three guys I interviewed were
all pastors who were coaches in the community or had you know, Some some coaching, you
203
00:12:43,667 --> 00:12:52,992
know background or some involvement in sports coaching and what you hear all the time is
there's no way sports can be used for ministry like they're somehow separate or uh, you
204
00:12:52,992 --> 00:12:54,013
know, one is
205
00:12:54,013 --> 00:13:04,561
very worldly or it's a secular thing and you know ministry is ministry and sports is
sports but uh no actually I think I see a lot of guys in ministry who have the heart of a
206
00:13:04,561 --> 00:13:06,446
coach and
207
00:13:06,446 --> 00:13:15,026
And there are guys who've built churches on the back of their relationships they've
created in a coaching environment, in a little league environment and whatever in their
208
00:13:15,026 --> 00:13:17,386
community, is pretty amazing.
209
00:13:18,126 --> 00:13:23,266
okay, so Saso, tell me, let's get into your life a little bit.
210
00:13:23,266 --> 00:13:25,026
How did you come to know the Lord and Savior?
211
00:13:25,026 --> 00:13:26,506
What's your family like?
212
00:13:26,506 --> 00:13:28,326
You can go as far back as you want.
213
00:13:28,326 --> 00:13:34,470
mean, obviously, we don't want to be here five hours, bro, but we're trying to get the
beat up.
214
00:13:35,361 --> 00:13:36,832
dinner time, understandable.
215
00:13:36,832 --> 00:13:45,134
uh So I grew up in a Christian home, first generation, while my parents were first
generation.
216
00:13:45,314 --> 00:13:48,435
And my parents did not come from a Christian home.
217
00:13:48,435 --> 00:13:51,096
And there was a rough upbringing they had.
218
00:13:51,096 --> 00:13:54,857
And I think my mom, for the most part, was they had more money.
219
00:13:54,857 --> 00:13:58,264
They weren't rich by any means, but comparative to my dad who
220
00:13:58,264 --> 00:14:01,695
Grew up very poor and self-dependent on himself.
221
00:14:02,256 --> 00:14:03,076
Very smart.
222
00:14:03,076 --> 00:14:09,619
um I went to my sister and just different, grew up in a different environment.
223
00:14:09,619 --> 00:14:17,062
And I think growing up and you get mad at your parents for how they raise you or how
they're strict or just different things they do.
224
00:14:17,062 --> 00:14:22,794
And as I get older, I get more context of how they really were raised and maybe they
weren't shown everything.
225
00:14:22,794 --> 00:14:28,436
And they were just brand new Christians learning how to raise a family.
226
00:14:28,462 --> 00:14:34,102
So with that information, I thought they did a pretty wonderful job of trying to train us.
227
00:14:34,242 --> 00:14:38,442
so, I mean, they were, what I remember most is they were faithful.
228
00:14:39,182 --> 00:14:48,242
They were who they were at home, at church, wherever we went, not that they were perfect
or sinless, but they were definitely consistent.
229
00:14:48,242 --> 00:14:53,642
I didn't see two different parents at home and at church.
230
00:14:53,662 --> 00:14:57,282
People respected them for being who they were and, you know.
231
00:14:57,282 --> 00:15:05,687
There's times when my dad did things that even people at church disagreed with because he
was just honest and he didn't want to take advantage of people.
232
00:15:05,688 --> 00:15:08,290
And as a little kid you notice all that, right?
233
00:15:08,290 --> 00:15:09,930
That's not lost on you.
234
00:15:10,151 --> 00:15:15,815
And when you get older you understand the full, you just know it equals eight.
235
00:15:15,815 --> 00:15:19,818
And then you get older and you're like, four plus, that's four, you get it.
236
00:15:19,818 --> 00:15:23,360
But at that point it's impressionable and you're like, why did he do that?
237
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,921
But you remember that.
238
00:15:24,941 --> 00:15:26,162
And so those,
239
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,672
those training things kind of made an impact on me.
240
00:15:29,712 --> 00:15:32,294
And then when I was five years old, my mom would read me this.
241
00:15:32,294 --> 00:15:36,255
And then you guys did a thing with my mom and that was very special.
242
00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:37,727
And I don't even want to watch it.
243
00:15:37,727 --> 00:15:40,428
I know there's going to be a time when my mom's not here.
244
00:15:40,428 --> 00:15:43,090
And then I don't know if I can watch that.
245
00:15:43,090 --> 00:15:45,421
But um but I will.
246
00:15:45,922 --> 00:15:47,562
And she read me the pineapple story.
247
00:15:47,562 --> 00:15:53,946
And that's kind of how the missionary was good to people who stole from him, because
that's what God is to us.
248
00:15:54,728 --> 00:16:02,832
God, know, the great plan of how God would exchange his life for ours when we don't
deserve it, right?
249
00:16:02,832 --> 00:16:04,694
We are no, we're not worthy.
250
00:16:04,694 --> 00:16:14,079
And that's that story kind of spoke to me in that regard where the missionary was kind to
these natives, even though they were they weren't they were stealing from him.
251
00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:15,750
They were taking advantage of him.
252
00:16:15,750 --> 00:16:20,853
And he said, you know what, the bigger picture is not to have pineapples, but to win these
people to Christ.
253
00:16:20,853 --> 00:16:23,264
And that really resonated with me and I.
254
00:16:23,264 --> 00:16:27,698
I saw that as a little kid and I accepted Christ when I was five.
255
00:16:27,698 --> 00:16:35,664
And obviously there was times in my life where I was questioning my salvation due to my
delinquency and just utter rebellion.
256
00:16:35,664 --> 00:16:39,426
And when I was young, I wanted to be a pastor or Dallas Cowboy.
257
00:16:40,167 --> 00:16:42,428
Neither one of those panned out for me.
258
00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:49,334
And so I grew up, I baptized at eight years old, very conservative Baptist church that we
grew up in.
259
00:16:49,390 --> 00:16:53,122
I don't even think it was called Baptist Church, but I think he would align with Baptist
Church.
260
00:16:53,122 --> 00:16:56,593
Went to Christian school, got kicked out of Christian school as a senior.
261
00:16:56,893 --> 00:17:08,948
And then really did not want to do anything for God, honestly, m until I got married and
my father-in-law was like, okay, I want you guys to find a church and you'll get my
262
00:17:08,948 --> 00:17:09,898
blessing.
263
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,489
I didn't care so much about his blessing, right?
264
00:17:12,489 --> 00:17:19,402
I was going to marry his daughter anyway, but Rebecca uh wanted the blessing, which I
understand.
265
00:17:19,478 --> 00:17:24,864
And then we got into a church that was a very small church, very country, you know,
church.
266
00:17:24,864 --> 00:17:26,245
And there was like 40 people there.
267
00:17:26,245 --> 00:17:29,358
We went there on a Wednesday night and they were just like, hey, don't come back.
268
00:17:29,358 --> 00:17:30,429
Our pastor's not here.
269
00:17:30,429 --> 00:17:34,058
This guy that's speaking, you know, maybe not the best guy.
270
00:17:34,058 --> 00:17:36,976
He's just he just fills in occasionally.
271
00:17:36,976 --> 00:17:37,796
And he was awful.
272
00:17:37,796 --> 00:17:42,021
um But I think I mean, I wasn't I was just looking at P's, my father-in-law.
273
00:17:42,021 --> 00:17:43,722
I really wasn't looking for.
274
00:17:43,982 --> 00:17:51,662
Church and they were very friendly and when I think that's what's lost on the big bigger
churches is that there are people think they're friendly But they're not friendly like
275
00:17:51,662 --> 00:18:02,722
your church depends on it and when your church depends on people to be friendly because
you need tithers You need people or you need bodies to to do work in the church then you
276
00:18:02,722 --> 00:18:09,102
realize how friendly you can be and so they were very friendly and That pastor.
277
00:18:09,102 --> 00:18:12,422
I don't know why he just entrusted us with a lot of stuff
278
00:18:12,538 --> 00:18:13,939
And he let me preach.
279
00:18:13,939 --> 00:18:16,920
My first message was seven minutes and it was awful.
280
00:18:17,661 --> 00:18:19,142
And he just let us serve.
281
00:18:19,142 --> 00:18:20,823
He entrusted us with a lot of things.
282
00:18:20,823 --> 00:18:24,895
And uh Rebecca came from that background of serving because her dad was a pastor.
283
00:18:24,895 --> 00:18:29,107
So she was always used to being aware of new people and serving in the church.
284
00:18:29,107 --> 00:18:30,108
And my parents were too.
285
00:18:30,108 --> 00:18:33,180
My dad was a deacon and he ran a AWANAs program.
286
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:35,171
He was ahead of that at one point.
287
00:18:35,171 --> 00:18:39,072
And all I saw my whole life was them serve and love people.
288
00:18:39,133 --> 00:18:40,474
And that's what I knew.
289
00:18:40,474 --> 00:18:41,334
And I love.
290
00:18:41,334 --> 00:18:47,766
that part, even though I wasn't per se living for God at that point, I was doing to the
motions of serving another.
291
00:18:47,766 --> 00:18:49,396
I love that part of it.
292
00:18:49,576 --> 00:19:00,799
And um and I would say really how we, you know, not just tell the whole story here, but
how we come in that church kind of ran its course and God moved us to another church and
293
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:08,361
then to the church right now where we really grew under, you know, Pastor Shaw's just
teaching and really deep.
294
00:19:09,122 --> 00:19:09,932
I guess.
295
00:19:09,932 --> 00:19:17,465
you know, not just surface level teaching, but really deep going into the roots of the
Bible.
296
00:19:17,465 --> 00:19:19,286
And really started to learn a lot there.
297
00:19:19,286 --> 00:19:21,047
And then he told me about freedom at last.
298
00:19:21,047 --> 00:19:27,269
And I think that's where the next level of growth where God just said, hey, like, what are
you doing?
299
00:19:28,029 --> 00:19:32,411
you're saying you're going to go to freedom at last to help people like you're the guy
that needs help.
300
00:19:32,411 --> 00:19:34,502
You're the one that's struggling with this addiction.
301
00:19:34,502 --> 00:19:36,173
You're the one that needs help.
302
00:19:36,173 --> 00:19:39,520
And I put you in this position not to help others, but
303
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:47,802
You yourself need to do the program and just to get over bitterness and just a lot of
things in my life I struggled with and i'm not going to get into all that.
304
00:19:47,802 --> 00:19:48,745
there's nobody else in business.
305
00:19:48,745 --> 00:20:02,523
That's the last four of my social But once I applied myself to those bible memorizations
and Going through the book and applying what god was teaching me my life started to change
306
00:20:02,523 --> 00:20:09,068
and um, there's people i'll run into now that will apologize or say something or be on
eggshells and i'm like
307
00:20:09,068 --> 00:20:12,059
That's just not who I who I want to be anymore.
308
00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:15,952
And so and it's funny because my mother-in-law will say the same thing.
309
00:20:15,952 --> 00:20:21,084
Like that's what that's why I came to freedom that last because I saw what God did in your
life.
310
00:20:21,084 --> 00:20:26,687
Like I saw a difference from the Saso before to the Saso after.
311
00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:27,938
And so this is where we're at.
312
00:20:27,938 --> 00:20:30,750
And this is what God's I mean, there's a lot of things that happen in between there.
313
00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:35,952
But I would say in a nutshell, that's how God's brought me to 49 years on this planet.
314
00:20:36,053 --> 00:20:38,114
And I'm thankful to have a Christian home.
315
00:20:38,114 --> 00:20:39,124
And but
316
00:20:39,124 --> 00:20:43,298
I know that I'm responsible for a lot to, know, to who much is given, much will be
required.
317
00:20:43,298 --> 00:20:51,956
em And I just, that's my prayer for my kids is that they serve themselves in whatever
capacity God would have them to do.
318
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:55,853
I love that story by the way the pineapple story got to hear your mom.
319
00:20:55,853 --> 00:20:57,525
We got here for the first time that day.
320
00:20:57,525 --> 00:21:02,279
Yeah Ben tell us you know, how did you come to Christ?
321
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:04,981
What was you know, what kind of family do you come from?
322
00:21:05,304 --> 00:21:09,356
So yeah, I uh did not come from a church home.
323
00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:15,608
I grew up in a Catholic home and uh we were not uh strong Catholic per se.
324
00:21:15,608 --> 00:21:22,260
We attended occasionally, typically your Easter Christmas type services and stuff like
that.
325
00:21:22,361 --> 00:21:23,601
There really wasn't a lot of.
326
00:21:23,601 --> 00:21:26,022
uh
327
00:21:26,030 --> 00:21:28,171
Christian type influence in my life.
328
00:21:28,411 --> 00:21:32,413
So I grew up, you know, very worldly, very, you know, in the world.
329
00:21:32,413 --> 00:21:35,434
I would say though my parents were somewhat conservative though.
330
00:21:35,434 --> 00:21:42,537
I mean, they were kind of strict with me in how they raised me, which I'm very actually
looking back today, very thankful for.
331
00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:48,500
I think they did what they did best considering their parents and with how they were
brought up as well.
332
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,630
So fast forward to about 2001.
333
00:21:53,704 --> 00:22:03,707
and that's when I met my wife and um we began dating and we got pregnant pretty quick and
we quickly had two sons.
334
00:22:03,707 --> 00:22:09,174
And um fast forward a little bit more, I'm working for a mining company.
335
00:22:09,294 --> 00:22:12,017
I get moved over here to Phoenix, Arizona.
336
00:22:12,206 --> 00:22:26,046
and I'm working for this company for a bit and I get fired and we had just, you know,
bought a house, bought a new car, just had a baby and so this was God, I think, putting me
337
00:22:26,046 --> 00:22:38,666
on my knees, looking back, you know, from this side of it and I remember one day I was in
my house and frustrated, looking for work, desperately looking for work.
338
00:22:38,770 --> 00:22:40,151
And I'd never really prayed.
339
00:22:40,151 --> 00:22:44,744
I mean, you you in Catholicism, you say prayers, you say the Lord's Prayer.
340
00:22:44,744 --> 00:22:48,236
That's kind of a repetitive thing or a Hail Mary or or whatever.
341
00:22:48,236 --> 00:22:53,230
I've never really prayed to God like, you know, just asking him or just talking to him.
342
00:22:53,230 --> 00:22:57,172
And but I just noticed one day I walked out and I said, God, if you're real, can you show
me?
343
00:22:57,172 --> 00:22:58,983
Can you can you reveal yourself to me?
344
00:22:58,983 --> 00:23:00,610
Something along those lines?
345
00:23:00,610 --> 00:23:02,030
Don't remember exactly.
346
00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:03,446
A couple of weeks later.
347
00:23:03,726 --> 00:23:10,413
I ended up getting a job oh as a contractor and working for this company and man it felt
so good to work.
348
00:23:10,413 --> 00:23:14,418
You know I had been out of work for a while and it's like man I'm yeah I was thankful.
349
00:23:14,418 --> 00:23:16,239
You know I'd been put on my knees.
350
00:23:16,239 --> 00:23:20,394
I'd been humbled and so very thankful to be back to work.
351
00:23:20,394 --> 00:23:26,229
I was able to provide for my family and just felt good and one day I'm working.
352
00:23:26,618 --> 00:23:29,519
And I'm, you know, I'm doing a IT type stuff.
353
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:37,584
And so I'm in a, I'm in an office and I'm, walking into this cubicle and, and, go, I'm not
sure I'm going to go help this guy out or if I'm asking him for help, I don't even
354
00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:39,184
remember what, was going on.
355
00:23:39,184 --> 00:23:42,246
But I looked at his desk and there were these little.
356
00:23:42,246 --> 00:23:44,777
Pamphlets, what I thought were pamphlets of church or something.
357
00:23:44,777 --> 00:23:45,618
There was a cross on it.
358
00:23:45,618 --> 00:23:47,539
Some, some language, Christian language.
359
00:23:47,539 --> 00:23:48,909
I didn't know it was a track.
360
00:23:48,909 --> 00:23:50,049
was a track.
361
00:23:50,802 --> 00:23:51,562
And I just looked at him.
362
00:23:51,562 --> 00:23:53,203
I go, hey, man, you believe in all this stuff?
363
00:23:53,203 --> 00:23:56,974
You know, kind of I was being, you know, kind of facetious and little cynical.
364
00:23:56,974 --> 00:23:58,674
And he kind of looked at me seriously.
365
00:23:58,674 --> 00:24:00,125
He's like, yeah, I do.
366
00:24:00,546 --> 00:24:02,666
And then he just kind of let it go.
367
00:24:02,806 --> 00:24:06,407
And we did our thing, whatever I did, whatever I was doing there, I don't remember.
368
00:24:06,527 --> 00:24:10,829
And maybe a few days later, caught him in the hallway and he's like, hey, man, I'm just
curious.
369
00:24:10,829 --> 00:24:13,110
Would you be interested in doing a Bible study?
370
00:24:13,742 --> 00:24:15,523
And I was like, wow, no one's ever really asked me that.
371
00:24:15,523 --> 00:24:17,924
And I was thinking to myself, well, I couldn't hurt.
372
00:24:17,924 --> 00:24:19,884
I've really even never read the Bible.
373
00:24:19,884 --> 00:24:23,556
Like, you know, as a Catholic, didn't even I don't even know if I owned a Bible.
374
00:24:23,556 --> 00:24:24,106
don't know.
375
00:24:24,106 --> 00:24:24,506
Wow.
376
00:24:24,506 --> 00:24:26,557
ah And so I was like, sure.
377
00:24:26,557 --> 00:24:28,287
Like, yeah, man, let's let's let's do it.
378
00:24:28,287 --> 00:24:29,588
And so we would meet.
379
00:24:29,588 --> 00:24:32,449
I think it was every Wednesday in a conference room.
380
00:24:32,449 --> 00:24:35,590
And we kind of started going through the Book of John.
381
00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:38,290
And I don't remember where exactly got to you.
382
00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:41,970
know we probably talked to Nick Kadimis, maybe got to John three 16.
383
00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:51,910
I don't know exactly where and, and, this, this guy's name was Michael and he, uh, started
talking to me about just salvation in general, talking about sin, talking about, man, like
384
00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:55,030
where, what, where would you go if you were to die today?
385
00:24:55,030 --> 00:24:55,510
You know?
386
00:24:55,510 --> 00:25:02,930
And I, I mean, based on the questions, what I'd read, I mean, I was just answering
honestly, I said, I'd probably go, I'd probably be going to hell.
387
00:25:03,278 --> 00:25:06,310
And I said, well, man, that doesn't have to be your eternal destination.
388
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:15,285
And he told me about he told me about Jesus and he told me, you know, hey, you just you
just repent and believe like it's just it's very it's it's very simple.
389
00:25:15,566 --> 00:25:17,022
I didn't know what repentance meant.
390
00:25:17,022 --> 00:25:25,672
I didn't know, you know, how to how to pray or how to confess my sin and ask, you know,
ask Jesus to be my savior.
391
00:25:25,872 --> 00:25:29,166
But he kind of he kind of said, hey, just just, you know.
392
00:25:29,166 --> 00:25:32,886
Tell them you believe, tell them you're thankful and tell them you're sorry for your sin.
393
00:25:32,966 --> 00:25:34,306
Pretty basic.
394
00:25:34,306 --> 00:25:35,366
And I did.
395
00:25:35,706 --> 00:25:37,285
And I did it with all my heart.
396
00:25:37,285 --> 00:25:38,626
And I meant it.
397
00:25:38,626 --> 00:25:45,546
And that day in a conference room, it was on a Wednesday in 2006, think March of 2006, I
got saved.
398
00:25:46,486 --> 00:25:50,246
it was life changing transformation.
399
00:25:50,826 --> 00:25:53,186
I mean, Lord cleaned up my language.
400
00:25:53,186 --> 00:25:55,008
He cleaned up the...
401
00:25:55,008 --> 00:25:55,628
Awful music.
402
00:25:55,628 --> 00:26:03,524
I listened to like he cleaned up so many things in my life immediately and some things
weren't so immediate Some things lingered obviously, but I just remember having a fire for
403
00:26:03,524 --> 00:26:11,971
him and I would even talk to the P I didn't even know like, know, how did I find books in
the Bible and so I'm talking to other people about it and and just just I remember that
404
00:26:11,971 --> 00:26:15,674
fire that I had was pretty amazing and I started attending church there.
405
00:26:15,674 --> 00:26:21,678
So this the church that we go to now I have this been the one and only church I've been to
and
406
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:25,271
You know, I remember every Sunday just being drawn in with Pastor Shaw.
407
00:26:25,271 --> 00:26:29,470
He would preach and I felt like I was in a tunnel and he was just preaching right out.
408
00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:31,274
I mean, it's like who tipped this guy off about me?
409
00:26:31,274 --> 00:26:32,254
Like, how did he know that?
410
00:26:32,254 --> 00:26:34,695
Like, how did he how does he know this stuff?
411
00:26:34,775 --> 00:26:38,297
And I was just drawn in like I was so dialed in.
412
00:26:38,297 --> 00:26:39,977
It's it's interesting.
413
00:26:40,278 --> 00:26:44,319
I remember I was so intrigued with his preaching and I was learning.
414
00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:51,582
I was just soaking it in like a sponge and I would write notes and like he's he's actually
hand out these like uh these little
415
00:26:51,694 --> 00:26:55,474
flyers like half a page or whatever and it would have kind of his outline.
416
00:26:55,474 --> 00:26:59,834
He would have blanks so you you gotta pay attention, know, right, filling your blanks.
417
00:26:59,834 --> 00:27:02,954
But I would take notes, like not just that, but I would take notes.
418
00:27:02,954 --> 00:27:09,994
And then I would go home and I would compose an email and I would send it to everybody on
my list, like friends, family, I didn't care.
419
00:27:09,994 --> 00:27:11,314
I just put everybody in there.
420
00:27:11,314 --> 00:27:18,082
Called it, I put the subject Sunday school, what I learned at Sunday school and then I
just put like kind of a pastor's outline.
421
00:27:18,082 --> 00:27:19,464
And I just was sending, did that.
422
00:27:19,464 --> 00:27:21,898
I mean, I did that religiously for, I don't know, months.
423
00:27:21,898 --> 00:27:23,901
I don't know how long, like for just for a really long time.
424
00:27:23,901 --> 00:27:31,582
Um, but eventually, you know, sometimes that, that fire kind of, you know, dwindles a
little bit and you get busy, life gets busy and that sort of thing.
425
00:27:31,582 --> 00:27:34,405
So fast forward, you know, a little bit and,
426
00:27:34,988 --> 00:27:39,180
You know, right around that time, too, uh obviously, my wife and I, weren't married at
that time.
427
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:42,471
And that was one of the first convictions that God gave me was, hey, man, you're not
married.
428
00:27:42,471 --> 00:27:44,302
You're living like you are, but you're not.
429
00:27:44,422 --> 00:27:46,063
And so we actually got married.
430
00:27:46,063 --> 00:27:47,344
We got married at.
431
00:27:47,344 --> 00:27:49,515
my friend that led me to the Lord, we got married at his house.
432
00:27:49,515 --> 00:27:51,806
It was as it was a discipleship group.
433
00:27:51,806 --> 00:27:54,477
And Pastor Shawl married us there at that at that discipleship group.
434
00:27:54,477 --> 00:27:55,697
So we we did it in home.
435
00:27:55,697 --> 00:28:00,670
And it's it's funny because it's it's coming up like our anniversary is coming up here
here in a few weeks.
436
00:28:00,670 --> 00:28:01,470
And.
437
00:28:01,876 --> 00:28:12,933
So just uh, yeah, it's just cool to think back like this is where god has taken me, know
and brought me to And it's just growing over the years just you know being under uh great
438
00:28:12,933 --> 00:28:21,939
teaching conservative teaching Reading reading scripture, you know and just growing in my
relationship with god and there's ebbs and flows Um, you know, there's there's ups and
439
00:28:21,939 --> 00:28:22,169
downs.
440
00:28:22,169 --> 00:28:22,759
There's been times.
441
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:27,342
I doubt my salvation you dip into sin, whatever and um
442
00:28:27,342 --> 00:28:30,802
but you get back up, man falls and he gets back up.
443
00:28:30,902 --> 00:28:35,293
I don't remember the Bible verses, get fall, a man falls seven times and he gets back up
again.
444
00:28:35,293 --> 00:28:47,833
But, and so, yeah, that takes me up till today and serving in the church, serving in FTL
and all of these different ministries and it's just been a blessing to do all of that.
445
00:28:48,189 --> 00:28:49,469
That's awesome.
446
00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:57,974
I know that um just being your friend, having been around you guys, um I would say more
intensely in the last three years.
447
00:28:57,974 --> 00:29:10,660
um I knew Ben for a long, long time when I was from when I was even a teenager to, to this
point, but Saso I met when I first came back, I think you had arrived to Northwest Valley
448
00:29:10,660 --> 00:29:15,872
while I was gone in Africa um and, immediately hit it off with these guys.
449
00:29:15,872 --> 00:29:18,613
One of the things I've noticed just, you know, being your friend,
450
00:29:18,643 --> 00:29:27,249
I've seen you guys use the exchange Bible study a lot and I'm just wondering, know,
honestly, you know, you don't have to sugarcoat You don't have to flatter or anything like
451
00:29:27,249 --> 00:29:32,152
that But when you as you've used the exchange Bible study, you know, what have you seen
God do with it?
452
00:29:32,152 --> 00:29:33,874
um What do you like about it?
453
00:29:33,874 --> 00:29:37,756
What do you what do you think its strengths are obviously anything has strengths and
weaknesses?
454
00:29:37,756 --> 00:29:48,043
So you go you go into whatever you want to go into you don't have to be bashful But but I
think I think that um I think that it's good for the audience to hear from practitioners
455
00:29:48,043 --> 00:29:51,435
you know, guys that actually use it ah in their ministry.
456
00:29:51,435 --> 00:29:54,847
And you guys have a very intense ministry, an addictions ministry, freedom that lasts.
457
00:29:54,847 --> 00:29:59,119
So you guys write blogs, you you have a podcast.
458
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:07,593
And so ah I know Rebecca has a counseling ministry, your wife saw so, and Diane's been a
Sunday school teacher to many, kids over the years.
459
00:30:07,733 --> 00:30:11,325
they're both also involved, Diane and Rebecca are both also involved in FTL.
460
00:30:11,325 --> 00:30:13,576
So how have you guys seen the Lord use?
461
00:30:13,576 --> 00:30:14,909
ah
462
00:30:14,909 --> 00:30:18,116
the exchange bible study, that whole curriculum.
463
00:30:18,697 --> 00:30:21,537
I would say that I didn't take the training class on it.
464
00:30:21,537 --> 00:30:27,477
So Rebecca really took that training class when I think Jeff Musgrave came and presented
that several years ago.
465
00:30:27,477 --> 00:30:32,537
I would want to say 2015 because when I bought my car, I just tie that memory.
466
00:30:32,537 --> 00:30:43,637
So it's 2015, I think, when he came and she took the training and she used it immediately
with somebody we picked up on the bus, a young lady that was about 17, 18.
467
00:30:43,729 --> 00:30:47,461
I'm letter to the Lord through that and I really didn't pay it much mind, right?
468
00:30:47,461 --> 00:30:58,851
I mean I've tried it a couple times at work when I was at Target even got this they went
through all these hoops to get the Spanish edition it was such a Like you couldn't get it
469
00:30:58,851 --> 00:31:07,837
so easily as you can now It was hard to get so I have a Spanish edition because a guy at
my work that speaks, you know felt more comfortable doing it in Spanish and Honestly, I
470
00:31:07,837 --> 00:31:10,441
just never pursued it with them like I should have
471
00:31:10,441 --> 00:31:17,525
um They weren't they didn't follow up with me and I was like, yeah, you know, they don't
want to be saved, you know, and they're going to go to hell.
472
00:31:17,525 --> 00:31:20,197
just that's I didn't say that right.
473
00:31:20,197 --> 00:31:22,858
But that's how you felt just to be real about it.
474
00:31:22,858 --> 00:31:26,110
That's what I showed because I didn't pursue.
475
00:31:26,110 --> 00:31:28,091
we went to freedom at last.
476
00:31:28,091 --> 00:31:29,532
And, know, the church has it.
477
00:31:29,532 --> 00:31:32,754
And I really didn't know a lot about the exchange, to be honest with you.
478
00:31:32,834 --> 00:31:37,717
And and you volun told me somebody that we met.
479
00:31:37,809 --> 00:31:39,901
And you're like, Hey, sauce is going to do the exchange with you.
480
00:31:39,901 --> 00:31:41,893
And I'm like, I am.
481
00:31:42,214 --> 00:31:44,376
OK, like, what do you how do you say no to that?
482
00:31:44,376 --> 00:31:44,636
Right.
483
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:45,037
Right.
484
00:31:45,037 --> 00:31:45,297
Right.
485
00:31:45,297 --> 00:31:47,059
Here's some fish.
486
00:31:47,059 --> 00:31:48,691
All these fishes in the ocean.
487
00:31:48,691 --> 00:31:50,012
And we're hungry.
488
00:31:50,012 --> 00:31:50,663
Like, yeah.
489
00:31:50,663 --> 00:31:51,404
OK.
490
00:31:51,404 --> 00:31:53,746
So I agreed to do it.
491
00:31:53,746 --> 00:31:58,351
And that really was my first experience with the exchange on that level.
492
00:31:58,351 --> 00:32:00,137
I tried it with somebody at work, but.
493
00:32:00,137 --> 00:32:04,097
you know, I did I mean, we're, we're still on like lesson three.
494
00:32:04,196 --> 00:32:06,217
We didn't really go anywhere with it.
495
00:32:06,217 --> 00:32:08,597
And then but this guy was hungry for it.
496
00:32:08,597 --> 00:32:14,997
He was he was wanting to pursue pursue God he was searching he was lost.
497
00:32:14,997 --> 00:32:21,297
He was coming off of an addiction and he was God at this point as you would say gave him a
moment of clarity in his life.
498
00:32:21,297 --> 00:32:23,597
He was free of substance.
499
00:32:23,597 --> 00:32:25,217
And he just
500
00:32:25,251 --> 00:32:30,643
ate it up every week, he would come prepared and he would this whole and it's a lot right.
501
00:32:30,643 --> 00:32:35,044
If you look at the exchange, it's it's a lot to go through from one week to the next.
502
00:32:35,044 --> 00:32:36,905
There's are a few however you do it.
503
00:32:36,905 --> 00:32:39,496
But from lesson one to lesson two, there's a lot of blanks.
504
00:32:39,496 --> 00:32:42,047
There's a lot of deep stuff in there.
505
00:32:42,047 --> 00:32:43,807
That's a lot of people.
506
00:32:43,807 --> 00:32:47,361
It's hard to do it like one lesson a week.
507
00:32:47,361 --> 00:32:49,089
Yeah, and uh
508
00:32:49,233 --> 00:32:54,337
It was tough and I was just, then it, you know, I started reading it and like, wow, this
is really good.
509
00:32:54,337 --> 00:32:55,705
It kind of explained things.
510
00:32:55,705 --> 00:33:02,063
It kind of, you know, it was leading you obviously to like Jesus did many times in the
word of God.
511
00:33:02,063 --> 00:33:07,768
was setting people up to hear the gospel or to hear what his message.
512
00:33:07,768 --> 00:33:10,420
And I think that's what the, exchange does.
513
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:12,101
It builds up from week one to week two.
514
00:33:12,101 --> 00:33:14,215
I'm like, wow, I'm just.
515
00:33:14,215 --> 00:33:25,650
You know, okay, God is you know, God is love and well, I'm and I'm a scumbag like and If
people get that point like wow that I'm not worthy then I think lesson three is gonna go
516
00:33:25,650 --> 00:33:32,352
really well and it's funny because We were gonna go out to lunch and you're like, hey, do
you mind if Jeff Musgrave comes along?
517
00:33:32,352 --> 00:33:36,924
I'm like, yeah, I kind of do like I'd rather not have lunch with Jeff Musgrave.
518
00:33:36,924 --> 00:33:41,176
I think I don't know this guy I gotta be spiritual.
519
00:33:41,176 --> 00:33:43,757
You know, I just can't shoot the breeze
520
00:33:44,289 --> 00:33:47,712
And when he came, it's I feel like it was God.
521
00:33:47,712 --> 00:33:59,193
uh Obviously was, but that God orchestrated that lunch because that day I would sit in
that same restaurant that I go to all the time in that same booth and talk to this man.
522
00:33:59,193 --> 00:34:02,105
And I told him like, here, here's the background.
523
00:34:02,311 --> 00:34:10,063
And he kind of encouraged me and he said, man, if he's willing to go to lesson three after
hearing lesson two, he's almost an honorary Christian.
524
00:34:10,063 --> 00:34:11,783
He's going to get saved.
525
00:34:11,784 --> 00:34:12,564
I know he is.
526
00:34:12,564 --> 00:34:15,985
And we prayed for him and we went through lesson three.
527
00:34:15,985 --> 00:34:20,186
And oh my next question was, hey, OK, what's your decision?
528
00:34:20,186 --> 00:34:22,466
Do you accept what God's done for you?
529
00:34:22,847 --> 00:34:24,647
And but God said, don't say nothing.
530
00:34:24,647 --> 00:34:27,968
Just let it let it just let it sit with him.
531
00:34:28,468 --> 00:34:31,249
And I went he went to the bathroom and.
532
00:34:31,624 --> 00:34:33,044
It just didn't happen.
533
00:34:33,044 --> 00:34:37,304
I was like, man, he seemed like he was into it.
534
00:34:37,304 --> 00:34:39,704
And then Friday, he talked about the exchange again.
535
00:34:39,704 --> 00:34:41,704
It was Wednesday to Friday, freedom to the last.
536
00:34:41,704 --> 00:34:42,704
He had more questions.
537
00:34:42,704 --> 00:34:45,364
And the group kind of helped answer those questions.
538
00:34:45,504 --> 00:34:46,524
he was encouraged.
539
00:34:46,524 --> 00:34:49,364
And then the next Wednesday, we were doing lesson four.
540
00:34:49,364 --> 00:34:52,004
And I wanted to know, like, dude, where are you at?
541
00:34:52,084 --> 00:34:53,584
Like, because lesson three is powerful.
542
00:34:53,584 --> 00:34:55,835
Lesson four is just, come on.
543
00:34:55,835 --> 00:35:06,095
Said oh I have big news and I'll go excited and his big news was like my girlfriend and
something's the stupidest thing I've ever heard I'm like, that's not big news.
544
00:35:06,095 --> 00:35:11,255
I thought big news was like I accepted Christ and and Then like 20 minutes later.
545
00:35:11,255 --> 00:35:20,515
He's a hey man I just wanna let you let you know that after Friday night I was you know,
I've been thinking about the exchange and you know what on lesson 3 and God is love and
546
00:35:20,515 --> 00:35:23,875
and I went home on Saturday and
547
00:35:23,875 --> 00:35:25,506
I believe I accepted Christ.
548
00:35:25,506 --> 00:35:26,646
said, well, how do you know?
549
00:35:26,646 --> 00:35:30,320
And he's like, I put my faith in Jesus Christ for nothing else.
550
00:35:30,561 --> 00:35:33,983
I believe I'm just like, that wasn't your big news.
551
00:35:33,983 --> 00:35:36,665
Like you didn't lead in with that.
552
00:35:37,847 --> 00:35:38,937
That next time.
553
00:35:38,937 --> 00:35:49,356
And I think once you experience somebody going through the exchange and you see somebody
come to Christ, it's like, man, I want to do this with everybody.
554
00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:53,215
And God brought in my cousin Tony that we did it as a group.
555
00:35:53,215 --> 00:35:56,518
And uh there was a young man there that was not interested at all.
556
00:35:56,518 --> 00:35:58,519
His mom forced him to come.
557
00:35:58,660 --> 00:35:59,501
And he didn't get saved.
558
00:35:59,501 --> 00:36:00,982
He didn't want to accept it.
559
00:36:02,043 --> 00:36:06,988
But my cousin Tony, I mean that was the gateway to leading him to Christ.
560
00:36:06,988 --> 00:36:09,770
He became a believer through the exchange.
561
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:11,792
And that was the second person that we saw.
562
00:36:11,792 --> 00:36:19,579
um And there's several other people, Matt that we're doing, Gustavo who I work with, we're
stuck on lesson three.
563
00:36:19,675 --> 00:36:24,055
And he just can't get past certain things about God is love.
564
00:36:24,955 --> 00:36:28,415
But it's been it's such I think it's easy to ask people.
565
00:36:28,415 --> 00:36:30,475
don't know Ben can expand on this as well.
566
00:36:30,475 --> 00:36:32,455
He here you want to do a Bible study.
567
00:36:32,455 --> 00:36:39,395
I think somebody that has one percent interest or a little interest, they think like, yes,
I want to do it.
568
00:36:39,395 --> 00:36:45,855
Not knowing that the Bible study is a mission to get them to know Jesus Christ as their
Lord and Savior.
569
00:36:45,855 --> 00:36:49,103
And I think the exchange is such a powerful tool because it
570
00:36:49,103 --> 00:37:01,656
Think it starts in the just the right way and it just kind of eases you in and then boom,
you know God really works through that book so Sorry Jeff about that Interaction, but I
571
00:37:01,656 --> 00:37:12,373
just really believe it's been such a powerful Where I have extra books in my car and I
have a book that I filled out in my house ready to go That I you know, there's a comfort
572
00:37:12,373 --> 00:37:14,354
level when you've done it a couple of times.
573
00:37:14,354 --> 00:37:16,735
but I think it's a powerful too and
574
00:37:17,509 --> 00:37:22,332
pretty clear on how you can become, how you can have a personal relationship with Jesus
Christ.
575
00:37:22,332 --> 00:37:30,067
Now there's some deeper things in there that to me, people struggle with, because it's
kind of, know, every, there's pros and cons, right?
576
00:37:30,067 --> 00:37:35,060
But I think it's necessary to know, um but I mean, there is some deep, deep topics.
577
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:37,283
And I think in those, uh
578
00:37:37,283 --> 00:37:39,105
And those areas, you just take your time.
579
00:37:39,105 --> 00:37:47,572
Like you don't push through, if they're not ready to go to three or they're not ready to
go to four or they're not ready go to two, you spend your time on one ensuring like, okay,
580
00:37:47,572 --> 00:37:49,233
man, I know that's a lot.
581
00:37:49,274 --> 00:37:51,015
Some people can handle the strong coffee, right?
582
00:37:51,015 --> 00:37:52,396
And some people can't.
583
00:37:52,396 --> 00:37:53,618
They get jittery.
584
00:37:53,618 --> 00:37:54,849
And we don't wanna get jittery.
585
00:37:54,849 --> 00:38:01,244
We want them to fully understand what the exchange and what God has really done for them.
586
00:38:01,244 --> 00:38:04,599
And I think once, it's funny because when I did it with Scott,
587
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:10,651
He he said all that verse when you know God took upon, know, he exchanged exchange.
588
00:38:10,651 --> 00:38:12,101
that's why it's called the exchange.
589
00:38:12,101 --> 00:38:13,302
He got it.
590
00:38:13,362 --> 00:38:15,763
And that's when it to me clicked in his mind.
591
00:38:15,763 --> 00:38:19,584
Like, wow, that verse because the book, you don't understand the exchange.
592
00:38:19,584 --> 00:38:29,211
But once you come to know Christ and you come to know the power of that verse, it clicks
and you're like, wow, that was that is the great exchange that God has done in my life.
593
00:38:29,211 --> 00:38:35,611
Yeah, 2 Corinthians 521 and that chart where you cross out Jesus's name and you put your
name there.
594
00:38:35,611 --> 00:38:42,131
That is we've we've heard from a lot of people that have used the book that you know,
that's where a lot of people get it.
595
00:38:42,131 --> 00:38:51,471
What's interesting is after we three had lunch with Jeff that day, we got in the car and
started driving back here to Ben's place, I think, to continue recording.
596
00:38:51,471 --> 00:38:54,622
And Jeff's like, yeah, two things, man.
597
00:38:54,622 --> 00:38:56,913
They're they're good friends to you.
598
00:38:56,913 --> 00:39:08,150
They treat you well and You guys are good friends and I could just tell that just by
sitting at the table so he he's so such a relational guy that it's like the prism through
599
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:13,597
which he sees the world and then um You know, the other thing is I asked him one time.
600
00:39:13,597 --> 00:39:14,828
This is
601
00:39:14,828 --> 00:39:23,382
uh Totally different time not related to that lunch uh Man, know, it's tough to get people
through and in four weeks on the exchange like man I usually go to eight.
602
00:39:23,382 --> 00:39:27,491
I'm like what you didn't you didn't tell me this so he's like no I could take anywhere
from four to eight.
603
00:39:27,491 --> 00:39:38,300
You just depends on the person you're sitting with so Yeah, but I think to though the
reason I love the four weeks is because
604
00:39:38,848 --> 00:39:40,669
there is an urgency in getting the gospel out.
605
00:39:40,669 --> 00:39:43,220
You don't know how much time you have with that person.
606
00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:49,353
And as you know, sometimes you can get to lesson two and then boom, that person for some
reason, the interest dies, it goes away, whatever.
607
00:39:49,353 --> 00:39:56,056
So I do think, you know, as soon as possible as we can get them as we can get them to
Christ, the better.
608
00:39:56,056 --> 00:39:58,177
But there are some people just they.
609
00:39:58,177 --> 00:40:00,598
Cody, he was on the podcast here with you guys.
610
00:40:00,598 --> 00:40:06,881
You know, it was like six months of hour and a half to two hour meetings with me every
week.
611
00:40:06,881 --> 00:40:08,792
um So, you know, that's
612
00:40:08,792 --> 00:40:09,811
Thanks.
613
00:40:09,811 --> 00:40:11,744
were generous with your time.
614
00:40:11,744 --> 00:40:13,641
It was exact words.
615
00:40:13,770 --> 00:40:18,073
what else is a pastor's time for than that kind of thing?
616
00:40:18,073 --> 00:40:26,810
anyway, Ben, tell us, what do think, you've used the exchange, we did it together actually
with, um man, I'm sorry, I forgot his name, Jake.
617
00:40:26,810 --> 00:40:30,060
We did it together with Jake, went all the way through it, so tell me what you think.
618
00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:32,321
ah Yeah, I think you're like what you said.
619
00:40:32,321 --> 00:40:35,222
I think we're sold that it's a four part Bible study.
620
00:40:35,222 --> 00:40:39,004
So in our mind, mentally, we're thinking four weeks or four meetings.
621
00:40:39,004 --> 00:40:47,388
And I think that when you try to do that, it's it's very overwhelming, especially for
somebody who's never been churched, doesn't know much and comes in and sees all these
622
00:40:47,388 --> 00:40:52,170
verses and sees all these blanks they got to fill in and feels like homework and, you
know, all of that.
623
00:40:52,170 --> 00:41:00,014
uh All that to say is it's it's that dilemma where you just said there's an urgency, but
there's a lot of good stuff in here.
624
00:41:00,014 --> 00:41:04,894
You know, like, mean, there's a lot of meat in there for you to for you to chomp on.
625
00:41:05,054 --> 00:41:07,514
So, yeah, I love the exchange.
626
00:41:07,514 --> 00:41:09,074
It's it's a constructive criticism.
627
00:41:09,074 --> 00:41:10,094
You can call it.
628
00:41:10,094 --> 00:41:12,734
I don't know if there's a there's a better way to get them through and faster.
629
00:41:12,734 --> 00:41:13,654
I don't know.
630
00:41:13,654 --> 00:41:14,754
Just because of that urgency.
631
00:41:14,754 --> 00:41:17,194
And I think I think of that, you know, I think of that urgency.
632
00:41:17,194 --> 00:41:18,554
We know we don't know what's going to happen.
633
00:41:18,554 --> 00:41:19,614
We're not promised our next breath.
634
00:41:19,614 --> 00:41:20,714
We don't know.
635
00:41:21,394 --> 00:41:23,294
But yeah, I love I love the exchange.
636
00:41:23,294 --> 00:41:27,754
I think I took Jeff's class might have been in 2015.
637
00:41:27,754 --> 00:41:29,114
I don't remember.
638
00:41:29,350 --> 00:41:31,941
And uh it was, I thought it was great material.
639
00:41:31,941 --> 00:41:37,705
uh I think I, I might've even gone through the exchange with my dad at one point.
640
00:41:37,705 --> 00:41:41,246
And this is even back when they were living back in New Mexico.
641
00:41:41,246 --> 00:41:44,288
uh I didn't see any, any fruit out of that.
642
00:41:44,288 --> 00:41:49,011
Unfortunately, I don't know if I went too fast or if he didn't understand, not quite sure.
643
00:41:49,011 --> 00:41:58,816
ah And then a few, couple of years later, Diane and I sat with some friends and we, uh we
were kind of trying to figure out like, Hey, this is
644
00:41:58,944 --> 00:42:04,216
You know, we wanted to practice, so we kind of would get together on a I was like a
Thursday night, Friday night or something.
645
00:42:04,216 --> 00:42:10,790
We get some food and then we'd go through the exchange and we'd fill in all the blanks
ourselves and try to just talk through some things just to kind of practice up.
646
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:14,291
And so, you know, I had a little bit of interaction with it.
647
00:42:14,491 --> 00:42:17,773
The primary interaction I had with it was with with Joel.
648
00:42:17,773 --> 00:42:24,946
And what ended up happening is uh Ivan, another church member, had started discipling Joel
and started going to the exchange with him.
649
00:42:24,946 --> 00:42:28,878
And there was just a night where he couldn't he couldn't meet with Joel at the church.
650
00:42:28,878 --> 00:42:32,378
And so I was like, I'd love to meet with Joel.
651
00:42:32,378 --> 00:42:35,178
I had already met him and we just kind of clicked.
652
00:42:35,458 --> 00:42:39,198
And I got to do lesson, I think it was less, it might've been lesson three out of four.
653
00:42:39,198 --> 00:42:40,838
I don't even remember, honestly.
654
00:42:41,078 --> 00:42:46,918
And it was one of those things where I got to witness the Holy Spirit just moving.
655
00:42:46,918 --> 00:42:51,618
And I saw how the Holy Spirit was just moving in Joel and the question, he was asking
questions.
656
00:42:51,618 --> 00:42:56,620
And this is what I love about the exchange because it generates questions and it generates
discussion.
657
00:42:56,620 --> 00:43:00,960
And they're real questions, know, they're real surface level questions that people are
going to have.
658
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,460
And not that I have all of the answers and I even told him I said, I may not have all the
answers.
659
00:43:04,460 --> 00:43:06,260
And if not, if I don't, we can we'll figure them out.
660
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:07,711
We'll figure this thing out together.
661
00:43:07,711 --> 00:43:10,043
But he just kept asking these really, really good questions.
662
00:43:10,043 --> 00:43:12,715
I mean, you can tell he was he was ready.
663
00:43:12,715 --> 00:43:16,878
He the Holy Spirit was moving and uh and it kind of clicked for him.
664
00:43:16,878 --> 00:43:18,665
And this is again the Holy Spirit moving through me.
665
00:43:18,665 --> 00:43:21,611
It was nothing that I it just came to me at the moment.
666
00:43:21,611 --> 00:43:24,433
uh But he's like, yeah, I just feel like, man, I got it.
667
00:43:24,433 --> 00:43:27,015
I have to I got to clean myself up before I can do any of this.
668
00:43:27,015 --> 00:43:28,246
I can't come to God like this.
669
00:43:28,246 --> 00:43:30,453
And I said, well, wait a minute, I said.
670
00:43:30,453 --> 00:43:33,774
I said, do you, do you lose weight before you go to the gym?
671
00:43:33,954 --> 00:43:35,494
You go to the gym to lose weight.
672
00:43:35,494 --> 00:43:37,115
I said, you go to God to clean you up.
673
00:43:37,115 --> 00:43:37,985
God cleans you up.
674
00:43:37,985 --> 00:43:39,515
You don't clean yourself up.
675
00:43:39,856 --> 00:43:43,356
And it clicked, but he didn't get saved at that moment.
676
00:43:43,657 --> 00:43:47,258
We continue talking, but I saw him and he, I mean, he was emotional.
677
00:43:47,258 --> 00:43:48,258
I saw the spirit moving.
678
00:43:48,258 --> 00:43:49,648
He was, you know, tearing up.
679
00:43:49,648 --> 00:43:51,929
And I thought, man, you know, he's going to get saved.
680
00:43:51,929 --> 00:43:55,080
I just, it didn't happen that moment.
681
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,401
What I, what I didn't know is right after that meeting, he went to his van.
682
00:43:59,507 --> 00:44:01,478
And he trusted Christ in his van.
683
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:03,821
He got saved in his van.
684
00:44:04,222 --> 00:44:13,041
And so, yeah, and unfortunately, you know, he he ended up moving back to Alaska, but he
was coming to FTL and he was hanging with us and we were trying to disciple him.
685
00:44:13,041 --> 00:44:17,836
In fact, we had we had like a Wednesday night group that we were meeting with and we
started doing like a.
686
00:44:17,836 --> 00:44:18,977
uh
687
00:44:18,977 --> 00:44:26,924
Christian discipleship book and then it ended up moving over to back to the exchange
because we got Tony and that was cool and that was cool because we still had some guys
688
00:44:26,924 --> 00:44:34,190
coming in and it was neat because we'd have guys that were saved already but they were
coming in just to see how we did it and they were learning too and so it was just neat to
689
00:44:34,190 --> 00:44:42,136
have a group and it was just almost like a big support group and Tony was just getting fed
and uh there were times for me and Sasa were like did he get saved and I don't know we
690
00:44:42,136 --> 00:44:48,001
would just be like oh maybe I don't know and we honestly don't even know at what point he
got saved but um
691
00:44:48,001 --> 00:44:50,202
But he did, gloriously saved.
692
00:44:50,323 --> 00:44:55,626
And so it's just an amazing thing to see the spirit work, to see how it all works.
693
00:44:55,626 --> 00:44:57,707
But I think the exchange is a very powerful tool.
694
00:44:57,707 --> 00:45:01,129
um If anything, it gets you reading the word.
695
00:45:01,421 --> 00:45:03,401
It prompts questions.
696
00:45:03,401 --> 00:45:04,901
It prompts curiosity.
697
00:45:05,681 --> 00:45:15,781
I think it's just it's a relational thing because you like you and Cody, you guys built a
relationship over that, you know, six period and six month period, whatever, whatever you
698
00:45:15,781 --> 00:45:19,181
met with him going to take it a moment to a coffee shop.
699
00:45:20,701 --> 00:45:22,141
But but.
700
00:45:22,221 --> 00:45:22,911
up.
701
00:45:23,787 --> 00:45:26,069
But yeah, I think it's it's definitely a powerful tool.
702
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:26,773
I love it.
703
00:45:26,773 --> 00:45:27,436
It's great.
704
00:45:27,436 --> 00:45:28,167
Yeah.
705
00:45:28,299 --> 00:45:29,031
So.
706
00:45:29,705 --> 00:45:39,690
You know, you guys, one of the reasons I think we're good friends and I respect you both a
lot is because you guys are relational.
707
00:45:39,690 --> 00:45:45,673
ah know Sasi here story after story of people you're building relationships with inside
USAA.
708
00:45:45,673 --> 00:45:53,336
Some of the people from USAA that have come to FTL are people that would typically never
darken the church of a fundamental Baptist church.
709
00:45:53,676 --> 00:45:57,858
They would never, ah and here they are at Friday night in the church.
710
00:45:57,858 --> 00:45:59,469
And Ben, you're also extremely
711
00:45:59,469 --> 00:46:02,310
relational, mean you love people, you're passionate about people.
712
00:46:02,310 --> 00:46:12,773
I whoever wants to talk here and know whoever wants to start but what do you guys believe
is, what are the essential ingredients to being relational, building relationships in your
713
00:46:12,773 --> 00:46:18,056
workplace, in your life, with people in your community, in today's American society?
714
00:46:18,056 --> 00:46:24,816
I will say to me, Rebecca will tell you this is I, you know, I put my hand out for a
handshake.
715
00:46:25,236 --> 00:46:34,336
And I'll give you a handshake and but I want more right to go up your arm until we're
hugging and not really knows I'm not really a hugger kind of change that a little bit.
716
00:46:34,336 --> 00:46:37,316
More of a hug on that regard.
717
00:46:37,316 --> 00:46:39,296
And I think that's relational what I want to do.
718
00:46:39,296 --> 00:46:46,756
I want to introduce myself and just work my way into your life for a reason for an
objective.
719
00:46:46,936 --> 00:46:47,876
And
720
00:46:48,442 --> 00:46:52,674
Not to be manipulative, but to say like I care about you as a human being.
721
00:46:52,674 --> 00:47:04,019
And I think at USA, the friendships that I've made um with people is I think genuinely
they know that I care about them and I don't, I can't care about them if I don't love them
722
00:47:04,019 --> 00:47:06,880
like God sees them or God loves them.
723
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,021
Cause that's not within me naturally, right?
724
00:47:09,021 --> 00:47:12,882
That's not a characteristic that, that I have inside.
725
00:47:12,882 --> 00:47:15,053
But when he says that God is love, right?
726
00:47:15,053 --> 00:47:16,824
And how we know
727
00:47:17,096 --> 00:47:20,376
We are part of God is that we love other people.
728
00:47:20,376 --> 00:47:21,916
And I think that's both.
729
00:47:21,916 --> 00:47:29,816
mean, that best exemplifies how I look at people are I try to look at people is this is
not an employee, right?
730
00:47:29,816 --> 00:47:37,376
This is somebody God has put right in my life for a reason, for a purpose, not to drive
them to results.
731
00:47:37,376 --> 00:47:39,276
But that's part of my job too, right?
732
00:47:39,276 --> 00:47:45,696
But primarily my relationship is because God brought him in the door of freedom that lasts
for God brought him through.
733
00:47:45,852 --> 00:47:59,528
Work or God brought me to work here and I think that really changed my life at Target when
I hated working there I really did and God said but I gave you 24 people that you are in
734
00:47:59,528 --> 00:48:09,842
charge of and Will do anything for you and you don't care about them You don't you don't
care if they go to hell you don't care if they you don't care about their soul And I
735
00:48:09,842 --> 00:48:14,984
really that's where the exchange started with me where I started I didn't know about it,
but I'm like, hey that heard this works
736
00:48:14,984 --> 00:48:17,424
So I started to tell people about it.
737
00:48:17,424 --> 00:48:22,744
But I think, for people I know, Rebecca said, you're very relational, right?
738
00:48:22,744 --> 00:48:24,444
I try to be friendly.
739
00:48:24,604 --> 00:48:29,364
But I had to work on being friendly to everybody, because that's not natural for me.
740
00:48:29,724 --> 00:48:34,064
And as they would say, I've taken so many classes to be folksy.
741
00:48:34,064 --> 00:48:38,904
And there's something about everybody that you can have something commonality with.
742
00:48:38,904 --> 00:48:43,504
And to find that tie and to bring it, I mean, even somebody at B-dubs.
743
00:48:43,712 --> 00:48:45,503
You know, hey, can you pray for my dog?
744
00:48:45,503 --> 00:48:47,894
Great somebody that serves you food?
745
00:48:47,935 --> 00:48:59,691
Boom you found an interest he saw you praying and now she wants she built Wow these guys
prayer and people are always watching and They're always judging how you react with them
746
00:48:59,691 --> 00:49:10,907
if you're friendly if you're kind if you're loving and I think they're just people that
walk around oblivious to people that are just With their arms out and they're just saying
747
00:49:10,907 --> 00:49:12,027
I need help
748
00:49:13,016 --> 00:49:22,439
And you're looking for something else or you're looking for I don't know what you're
looking for you but you're not seeing what What what's in front of you and it really
749
00:49:22,439 --> 00:49:23,999
what's in front of you is where we work?
750
00:49:23,999 --> 00:49:33,512
You know where we go shop where we eat all these things where you build relationships with
and it's it's funny because my daughter Lainey was here and she thought it was funny that
751
00:49:33,512 --> 00:49:39,634
I had you know Chelsea's You know we you know text so we text about Buffalo Wild Wings.
752
00:49:39,634 --> 00:49:40,936
We're not texting about
753
00:49:40,936 --> 00:49:44,616
anything else and she sent me a picture of her niece, whatever.
754
00:49:44,976 --> 00:49:50,076
And I say, hey, I'm praying for your dog or I'm praying for you or hey, Friday night we
have freedom at last.
755
00:49:50,136 --> 00:49:52,496
We gave her a track, invited her.
756
00:49:52,496 --> 00:49:55,556
And I just think that God has made us relational.
757
00:49:55,556 --> 00:49:57,076
Obviously we know that.
758
00:49:57,076 --> 00:49:59,956
He made us relational like we're dependent on him.
759
00:50:00,696 --> 00:50:07,432
But also that's what people, I think there's so many people that are hurting and really I
look at people that I have relationships with.
760
00:50:07,432 --> 00:50:09,532
That I never would have a relationship with.
761
00:50:09,532 --> 00:50:15,172
I would not be interested in being friends or even friendly to them in my flesh.
762
00:50:15,332 --> 00:50:17,512
And I think of Gustavo at work.
763
00:50:17,512 --> 00:50:21,912
Totally different human being that I've ever met in my entire life.
764
00:50:21,912 --> 00:50:23,432
For all kind of reasons.
765
00:50:23,432 --> 00:50:29,888
And I think about it and I go, I don't know that he has anybody that loves him or anybody
that
766
00:50:30,748 --> 00:50:33,244
He basically told you like you're like his dad.
767
00:50:33,244 --> 00:50:38,285
He wants me to adopt him as his dad for and then he gets mad at me like this is like a
real.
768
00:50:41,567 --> 00:50:47,149
And so these relationships and I think of, you know, people like Brian that came to
freedom that last had no family.
769
00:50:47,149 --> 00:50:50,090
And when he passed away, we held service for him.
770
00:50:50,090 --> 00:50:52,490
And if we did it, nobody would have done that.
771
00:50:52,490 --> 00:50:54,511
Nobody would have remembered his name.
772
00:50:54,511 --> 00:50:55,551
Nobody would have.
773
00:50:55,551 --> 00:50:56,572
He would have been gone.
774
00:50:56,572 --> 00:50:57,902
And that's it.
775
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:09,223
I'm just grateful and I think Rebecca on the other spectrum my wife is very friendly very
to anybody and everybody and Just has a kind heart right where me naturally I don't have
776
00:51:09,223 --> 00:51:18,366
that kind heart God's worked on me on that, know, somebody you know doesn't say hi to me a
church back in the day I built up my wall and never talked to him again.
777
00:51:18,366 --> 00:51:25,448
Forget them and uh God's really changed my life into that and said, okay, but there's a
reason why
778
00:51:25,448 --> 00:51:29,128
that person, maybe they're hurting, maybe whatever the reason is.
779
00:51:29,128 --> 00:51:30,748
I've called you to love people.
780
00:51:30,748 --> 00:51:34,068
I've called you and we know there's people right in our red button people in the church.
781
00:51:34,068 --> 00:51:39,988
I'm going to get Pastor George in trouble here that we struggle with that are not easy to
love.
782
00:51:39,988 --> 00:51:45,168
They make themselves at times unlovable with the world's definition.
783
00:51:45,168 --> 00:51:46,848
But God says doesn't matter.
784
00:51:46,848 --> 00:51:47,048
Right.
785
00:51:47,048 --> 00:51:47,968
I love them.
786
00:51:47,968 --> 00:51:52,088
And I just try to keep that perspective of being friendly to everybody.
787
00:51:52,168 --> 00:51:55,376
And then I think when I came into USA for the first time,
788
00:51:55,376 --> 00:51:59,398
I was so grateful for that job that I would say hi to everybody.
789
00:51:59,398 --> 00:51:59,948
Hey.
790
00:51:59,948 --> 00:52:02,379
And I was just thrilled to be there.
791
00:52:02,679 --> 00:52:04,590
And there's people that will come up to me now.
792
00:52:04,590 --> 00:52:06,601
Hey, Rosendo, that I don't even remember.
793
00:52:06,601 --> 00:52:15,544
like, man, when I first came here and I came to the, you know, employee, new employee or
orientation, you came up to me, shook my hand and said, man, you're to do great here.
794
00:52:15,544 --> 00:52:16,004
Good luck.
795
00:52:16,004 --> 00:52:19,996
And I'm like, I said that like, yeah, I go, what's your name?
796
00:52:19,996 --> 00:52:20,596
it's Jane.
797
00:52:20,596 --> 00:52:22,267
Like, I don't even remember.
798
00:52:22,347 --> 00:52:24,870
And it's led to relationships and.
799
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:32,524
I think if you can go into every day, no matter what you're going through, I know Ben's
had a rough week this week, and just say, man, when I go into AutoZone, I'm gonna put the
800
00:52:32,524 --> 00:52:33,544
joy of the Lord on my face.
801
00:52:33,544 --> 00:52:36,586
When I go into Buffalo Water, when you throw them, put the joy of Lord on my face.
802
00:52:36,586 --> 00:52:41,498
When I go into whatever, when I go into church, right, and it's funny, because I go into
church and I see people that look miserable.
803
00:52:41,498 --> 00:52:44,469
I'm like, this is the highlight of your week.
804
00:52:44,469 --> 00:52:45,680
How can you be miserable?
805
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,141
Like, how come you're not friendly?
806
00:52:47,141 --> 00:52:50,522
How can you not just be bubbling over and excited?
807
00:52:50,624 --> 00:52:56,286
And I think if you carry that joy of the Lord, man, that is attractive to a world that is
without hope.
808
00:52:56,346 --> 00:53:00,548
And I think that leads to relationship for people when you say you want to do Bible study.
809
00:53:00,548 --> 00:53:08,251
I think part of them is curious to say, man, I want some of that coffee that you drank
because, man, that's is crazy.
810
00:53:08,251 --> 00:53:10,352
And I think that's so helpful to.
811
00:53:10,352 --> 00:53:15,975
And even on this hike that I did, I can't tell you how many times I said the joy of the
Lord is my strength.
812
00:53:15,975 --> 00:53:20,046
And it truly is empowering when you carry that joy of the Lord.
813
00:53:20,228 --> 00:53:22,991
as a part of your personality.
814
00:53:22,991 --> 00:53:28,877
And I know it's not me, because you could tell people that know me from back in the day,
like that's not who I am.
815
00:53:28,877 --> 00:53:36,044
But God transforms your life and that joy of the Lord is, man, when you're not saved and
you're without hope, you want that in your life.
816
00:53:36,871 --> 00:53:39,366
Ben, tell us man, what about you?
817
00:53:39,366 --> 00:53:41,618
Yeah, so I'm I'm I'm relational.
818
00:53:41,618 --> 00:53:49,063
um But I would say that I'm I'm also um somewhat outgoing, but I'm also somewhat not
outgoing.
819
00:53:49,063 --> 00:53:58,401
So in other words, I like small crowds or one on one or, know, you know, three guys eating
wings or whatever kind of guy happens a lot.
820
00:53:58,401 --> 00:53:58,951
Yeah.
821
00:53:58,951 --> 00:54:01,773
And that's kind of where I like this, my comfort zone.
822
00:54:01,994 --> 00:54:05,530
So naturally, I'm not, you know, super outgoing, you know.
823
00:54:05,530 --> 00:54:06,120
saying hi to people.
824
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,923
I try to be friendly to everybody.
825
00:54:07,923 --> 00:54:09,744
You know, we're supposed to be salt and light.
826
00:54:09,865 --> 00:54:12,708
I definitely want people to see Jesus in me if possible.
827
00:54:12,708 --> 00:54:19,375
And I know sometimes I'm failing sanctification tests, know, because I'm getting mad at
the guy cutting me off on the street or whatever.
828
00:54:19,375 --> 00:54:25,491
And, know, I'm not always thinking about sharing Christ, you know, with the cashier at the
store or whatever.
829
00:54:25,491 --> 00:54:28,564
And it's just things I'm working on, you know, obviously.
830
00:54:28,936 --> 00:54:33,081
But I think it's so important to build those relationships.
831
00:54:33,222 --> 00:54:37,918
Because if you don't have those, if you don't build the relationship, it's hard to speak
into people's lives.
832
00:54:37,918 --> 00:54:40,431
Because anymore, like, I mean...
833
00:54:40,716 --> 00:54:46,400
The world is being marketed to and you know, you get a call on your phone and you look at
it and it's like, yeah, do I?
834
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:47,321
Yeah, red button.
835
00:54:47,321 --> 00:54:52,290
I don't know this guy or you answer it and you know, they start you hear the little pause
and then they start talking.
836
00:54:52,290 --> 00:54:55,086
You already know, like it's it's it's a spam call.
837
00:54:55,086 --> 00:54:58,322
I'm hanging up here, you know, or, know, don't people don't want to answer their doors.
838
00:54:58,322 --> 00:54:59,499
I mean, we go hang door hangers.
839
00:54:59,499 --> 00:55:01,790
And I was I don't even know how effective that really is.
840
00:55:01,790 --> 00:55:05,072
um But people just they, you know.
841
00:55:05,180 --> 00:55:06,701
They're they're they're guarded.
842
00:55:06,701 --> 00:55:07,661
They're very guarded.
843
00:55:07,661 --> 00:55:09,612
And so it's hard to get into somebody's life.
844
00:55:09,612 --> 00:55:22,927
But I think like Sasa said, if you're showing the joy of the of the Lord and and, know,
just being friendly, um you know, one thing is that, you know, serving in FTL, I've had my
845
00:55:22,927 --> 00:55:26,949
eyes open to how how what broken this really looks like.
846
00:55:26,949 --> 00:55:34,752
I mean, you know, when I got saved, I was I was broken, but I wasn't I mean, I wasn't in
the gutter and I wasn't, know, on drugs and I wasn't coming off of all these
847
00:55:34,946 --> 00:55:36,698
And there's just people that are just hurting.
848
00:55:36,698 --> 00:55:38,979
mean, or maybe people just hurting.
849
00:55:38,979 --> 00:55:45,234
know, Diane and I have had uh trials in the last few years with family members passing
away.
850
00:55:45,234 --> 00:55:47,386
had a business partner commit suicide.
851
00:55:47,566 --> 00:55:50,269
And we deal with these emotional hurts.
852
00:55:50,269 --> 00:55:58,505
uh We watched one of our favorite uh documentaries, Show Me the Father, and it just talks
about dad wounds.
853
00:55:58,505 --> 00:56:02,316
And there's a whole world of broken people.
854
00:56:02,316 --> 00:56:04,220
A whole world of broken people.
855
00:56:04,252 --> 00:56:07,254
And you have to look at them like Jesus looks at.
856
00:56:07,655 --> 00:56:11,077
It looks at people, you know, uh loving people.
857
00:56:11,118 --> 00:56:12,699
And it's not easy.
858
00:56:12,699 --> 00:56:13,990
It's not easy to always do that.
859
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:20,206
There's a lot of unlovable people like Sauswell mentioned, and it's not easy, but it's
it's crucial.
860
00:56:20,206 --> 00:56:22,678
mean, this is how we have to this is how we have to see it.
861
00:56:22,678 --> 00:56:25,441
This is how we have to react to this world.
862
00:56:25,441 --> 00:56:27,512
It is is hopeless.
863
00:56:27,512 --> 00:56:29,473
They have zero hope and they don't know it.
864
00:56:29,473 --> 00:56:31,976
uh So with that, it's just it's it's.
865
00:56:31,976 --> 00:56:32,896
uh
866
00:56:33,072 --> 00:56:42,767
It's difficult to get into somebody's life, but I think if you kind of work it into your
life, like Sasa said, we go to B-Dubs every two or three times a week sometimes.
867
00:56:42,767 --> 00:56:44,098
We're going there in a little while.
868
00:56:44,098 --> 00:56:44,858
We're going tomorrow.
869
00:56:44,858 --> 00:56:48,312
um And those are places where you can.
870
00:56:48,312 --> 00:56:49,622
We have a problem.
871
00:56:49,622 --> 00:56:50,584
I know.
872
00:56:50,652 --> 00:56:51,762
That's another episode.
873
00:56:51,762 --> 00:56:59,995
Yeah, but you build you build those relationships because you're interacting with these
people consistently and once they start building that relationship, it's easier to say
874
00:56:59,995 --> 00:57:01,066
hey, how about a Bible?
875
00:57:01,066 --> 00:57:04,217
So you want or you want to come to church or you want to come to FTL?
876
00:57:04,217 --> 00:57:11,889
We have this addictions ministry, you know, come check it out if you want, you know, it's
uh it's not like an AA meeting where it's more like a church service, you know, come come
877
00:57:11,889 --> 00:57:12,280
check it out.
878
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:13,680
It's discipleship.
879
00:57:13,936 --> 00:57:22,120
It's easier to say those and have those doorways and those doors to be opened rather than
people just, know, they're just very guarded.
880
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:25,281
So definitely important to build relationships.
881
00:57:25,281 --> 00:57:27,642
It's not easy and sometimes you just have to get creative.
882
00:57:27,642 --> 00:57:35,866
um You you have to view the world that they are broken and there's a lot of hurt and
people need Jesus.
883
00:57:35,866 --> 00:57:37,077
mean, Jesus is the answer.
884
00:57:37,077 --> 00:57:44,350
This is what I love about Freedom at Last is because we've had people come into Freedom at
Last and say, well, it's weird you guys don't really talk about
885
00:57:44,889 --> 00:57:47,370
What issue are you you in the cocaine?
886
00:57:47,370 --> 00:57:48,930
Are you in the marijuana?
887
00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:50,430
Are you a druggy?
888
00:57:50,430 --> 00:57:51,650
Are you an alcoholic?
889
00:57:51,850 --> 00:57:55,450
And we just tell them, we don't focus on the problem, we focus on the solution.
890
00:57:55,450 --> 00:57:56,830
The solution is Jesus.
891
00:57:56,970 --> 00:57:58,890
Without Jesus, you can't break those chains.
892
00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:06,550
You can go to AA meetings and maybe you can clean yourself up for two to three months, or
maybe up to a year or something like that, but you're gonna fall right back into your
893
00:58:06,550 --> 00:58:07,370
vices.
894
00:58:07,370 --> 00:58:10,130
Jesus is the only way to break those chains, the only way.
895
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:11,550
And so,
896
00:58:11,900 --> 00:58:15,245
Yeah, building relationships, very important, very important.
897
00:58:15,245 --> 00:58:17,447
And the exchange is also a platform.
898
00:58:17,447 --> 00:58:27,040
It's a vehicle that you can take and get people into the Word, get people thinking about
these things and have them ask questions and build that curiosity and ultimately share
899
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:27,620
Christ.
900
00:58:27,620 --> 00:58:30,604
And yeah, there's definitely going to be some fruit from that.
901
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:31,820
Yeah, I love that.
902
00:58:31,820 --> 00:58:35,502
um You know, you guys just, you know, both mentioned FTL.
903
00:58:35,502 --> 00:58:45,565
Does that process building relationships, discipleship, evangelism, does it look any
different when you're sitting across from a methamphetamine addict versus you're sitting
904
00:58:45,565 --> 00:58:48,886
across from a guy who installs AC units on roofs all day?
905
00:58:48,886 --> 00:58:55,248
You know, um anything you'd adapt for the specialty of addictions ministry.
906
00:58:55,248 --> 00:59:03,249
I would say there's a when somebody's on fentanyl or on drugs or even alcohol, there's a
more of an urgency.
907
00:59:03,249 --> 00:59:10,773
And uh it's not I don't always see that with somebody that is in their minds living a
decent life.
908
00:59:10,773 --> 00:59:15,074
But when somebody comes to freedom that last at that point, they're desperate.
909
00:59:15,074 --> 00:59:16,124
They may not say it.
910
00:59:16,124 --> 00:59:16,995
They may not.
911
00:59:16,995 --> 00:59:18,475
And sometimes they do say it.
912
00:59:18,475 --> 00:59:22,396
But they they desperately need help.
913
00:59:22,664 --> 00:59:25,264
And they don't know what help looks like, but they know they need.
914
00:59:25,264 --> 00:59:28,784
And at some point, I think it's the God they've been told in their life.
915
00:59:28,784 --> 00:59:35,704
Some point you need God, but not necessarily connected them to how, how do I get God?
916
00:59:35,704 --> 00:59:38,204
How does he exist?
917
00:59:38,204 --> 00:59:47,244
But where and how, and just like Ben said, like if you exist, like, and I think when Ben
said that he was acknowledging there is a God, but he's not personal God to me.
918
00:59:47,244 --> 00:59:49,864
And, uh, you know, I think that's the same thing with Gustavo.
919
00:59:49,864 --> 00:59:51,464
It's not personal yet.
920
00:59:51,584 --> 00:59:52,216
Um,
921
00:59:52,216 --> 00:59:55,098
God's working on his life, but I think it's there's more of a desperation.
922
00:59:55,098 --> 01:00:03,484
And so I think people are um more apt for that solution to to do the exchange or to do
Bible study.
923
01:00:03,604 --> 01:00:10,449
Not to say the guy with the AC is not looking to that, but I just feel like there's more
of a like I need help now.
924
01:00:11,090 --> 01:00:14,542
Not I don't want to do the eight week exchange.
925
01:00:14,542 --> 01:00:16,013
I need to do the four week.
926
01:00:16,013 --> 01:00:18,765
And if you can meet with me twice this week, great.
927
01:00:18,765 --> 01:00:20,556
I want to get as much as I can.
928
01:00:20,904 --> 01:00:31,031
And I think everybody's different right not every not even any drug addicts or like that,
but it typically if they come more than once then they're pretty dedicated to getting help
929
01:00:31,031 --> 01:00:35,519
or Finding a solution and some people come once and we never see him again, right?
930
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:44,781
They just wasn't for them or they're not ready and I really think what you said to me
about, know the gentleman that we were talking about is that God gave him a moment of
931
01:00:44,781 --> 01:00:49,344
clarity in his life and sobriety for this period of time and
932
01:00:49,436 --> 01:00:55,211
Brian that used to come for that last that God took him home uh With this addiction right?
933
01:00:55,211 --> 01:01:05,689
He never got victory on this side of the of the of the world But he's you know victorious
in heaven But that's what he had like a year of sobriety where God really transformed his
934
01:01:05,689 --> 01:01:14,717
life saved him transformed them sanctified him and Then we saw the struggle in his face
every time he would come because he was battling When you're not saved right?
935
01:01:14,717 --> 01:01:19,176
You don't care if you sin or not like there's no real tie or dick
936
01:01:19,176 --> 01:01:22,116
No, uh, guilt or no shame.
937
01:01:22,116 --> 01:01:23,056
Like this is what you do.
938
01:01:23,056 --> 01:01:31,416
Like I enjoy drugs and I know I shouldn't do it because it's morally wrong, societal
wrong, but it's not really, I'm not offending anybody else.
939
01:01:31,416 --> 01:01:39,236
And I think he really felt the deep pain of hurting God and not having that relationship
that he used to have with God.
940
01:01:39,236 --> 01:01:41,496
And he's at battle, it struggled with him.
941
01:01:41,496 --> 01:01:43,336
And that addiction was so powerful.
942
01:01:43,336 --> 01:01:49,318
And I think that he just, you know, I don't, for whatever reason, he just could not find
victory, but I just.
943
01:01:49,318 --> 01:01:58,732
I feel like there's just a difference between somebody that's an addict compared to
somebody that's not Even though we're all addicted to something I think drugs and you know
944
01:01:58,732 --> 01:02:04,674
alcohol Provide a more urgency because there's people that have been Narcan back to life.
945
01:02:04,775 --> 01:02:07,456
We had Tony that that's what he said Hey, I was Narcan back.
946
01:02:07,456 --> 01:02:18,560
So he knows that the thin line between death and life and that's it right and then there's
no more chances for you So you need to get this squared away as quickly as possible
947
01:02:18,988 --> 01:02:28,995
And I think you have to be ready, you know um You know we see when we see that like Sosa
said they they're they're desperate and I think you you have to be ready for the change
948
01:02:28,995 --> 01:02:41,533
You know, I think of Tony and you know Tony uh You know, he would talk about you know when
he was in his uh You know drug swings or whatever when he was, you know on the fentanyl or
949
01:02:41,533 --> 01:02:42,764
whatever he was on
950
01:02:42,892 --> 01:02:45,795
And he was talking about how dark it was.
951
01:02:45,795 --> 01:02:51,520
mean, was definitely like a demonic uh oppression, presence.
952
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,322
There was definitely a demonic presence.
953
01:02:53,322 --> 01:02:54,217
And I think you opened it up.
954
01:02:54,217 --> 01:02:56,104
That's funny, I'm talking to my...
955
01:02:56,104 --> 01:03:01,704
my basketball player today and he was asking me about about drugs and what I thought
about, you know, is it a sin?
956
01:03:01,704 --> 01:03:08,924
And I just told him, said, you know, you look in the Old Testament and you see the word
sorcery and the word for sorcery is pharmacay.
957
01:03:08,924 --> 01:03:11,504
Oh, you get for pharmacy and it all ties to drugs.
958
01:03:11,504 --> 01:03:14,384
And when you take drugs, you're opening yourself up to the demonic.
959
01:03:14,384 --> 01:03:15,344
You're opening yourself.
960
01:03:15,344 --> 01:03:17,624
You're opening a door that you don't want to open.
961
01:03:17,624 --> 01:03:20,284
It opens up the door to a lot of sin.
962
01:03:20,284 --> 01:03:21,032
There's actually
963
01:03:21,032 --> 01:03:25,658
uh a demon cult like a satan cult called pharmaca.
964
01:03:25,658 --> 01:03:26,068
really?
965
01:03:26,068 --> 01:03:28,131
Yes, yes comes from that greek word.
966
01:03:28,131 --> 01:03:28,491
Wow.
967
01:03:28,491 --> 01:03:33,427
They acknowledge this connection between being high and being close to satan.
968
01:03:33,724 --> 01:03:35,705
And it is, and that's what it is, right?
969
01:03:35,705 --> 01:03:38,726
But I think that was a motivator for Tony for wanting him to change.
970
01:03:38,726 --> 01:03:41,148
wanted, he didn't want that darkness anymore.
971
01:03:41,148 --> 01:03:43,349
He didn't want a piece, he saw it all.
972
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:45,009
He saw it, he lived it.
973
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:47,420
And he was ready, he was ready for something different.
974
01:03:47,420 --> 01:03:50,432
was, like he said, our Ken back to life.
975
01:03:50,432 --> 01:03:54,744
He was talking, he told me about being in a point of life where he just, didn't care if he
died.
976
01:03:54,744 --> 01:03:55,954
He didn't care if he went to hell.
977
01:03:55,954 --> 01:03:57,915
And that's a really dark place to be.
978
01:03:57,915 --> 01:03:58,856
A really dark place to be.
979
01:03:58,856 --> 01:04:03,558
It's like, I think of my business partner, he was battling alcohol.
980
01:04:04,138 --> 01:04:12,758
And I think I talked to his mom a little bit and somewhere in his journal, it almost
sounded like he, the reason he committed suicide was just because he felt he was not
981
01:04:12,758 --> 01:04:13,178
fixable.
982
01:04:13,178 --> 01:04:15,438
He couldn't get fixed and he was sick of it.
983
01:04:15,438 --> 01:04:19,758
He was sick of the addiction and so he just, he took care of the problem.
984
01:04:20,118 --> 01:04:24,818
And I think it was very sad because he was in a complete state of utter hopelessness.
985
01:04:24,818 --> 01:04:26,218
And so, yeah.
986
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:31,292
There's a there's a there's a big difference, I think, between the the addict and the guy
that's doing the AC.
987
01:04:31,292 --> 01:04:37,454
But here's the thing I would say the there's no difference in the addict and the AC guy
that aren't saved.
988
01:04:37,454 --> 01:04:40,706
They're both just as dead and they both need Christ just as much.
989
01:04:40,706 --> 01:04:46,348
And so I would say that the urgency is definitely the same on both sides, whether they
realize it or not.
990
01:04:46,918 --> 01:04:52,661
Yeah, and what I love is, you know, we've done the exchange by body with both Bible study
with both.
991
01:04:52,661 --> 01:04:53,011
Right.
992
01:04:53,011 --> 01:04:53,531
Right.
993
01:04:53,531 --> 01:04:57,373
We've done the exchange with Tony and we've done it with Jake.
994
01:04:57,373 --> 01:05:04,136
And Jake runs this really big, successful AC business and Tony is well, we're actually
going to have an interview with Tony.
995
01:05:04,136 --> 01:05:06,647
think it's going to be the episode after this one.
996
01:05:06,647 --> 01:05:06,907
cool.
997
01:05:06,907 --> 01:05:07,578
Right.
998
01:05:07,578 --> 01:05:12,380
And I'm going have Tony on the podcast, but you're going to hear Tony's life and you're
going to be like, wow.
999
01:05:12,380 --> 01:05:13,490
But that's what I love.
Speaker:
01:05:13,490 --> 01:05:16,102
mean, Jesus, he said, I draw all men unto myself.
Speaker:
01:05:16,102 --> 01:05:17,082
uh
Speaker:
01:05:17,082 --> 01:05:22,750
I do not will that any should perish but that all should have eternal life um You know,
it's written there in 2nd Peter.
Speaker:
01:05:22,750 --> 01:05:26,697
So I'm just thankful to Lord that he's willing to save all of us
Speaker:
01:05:26,697 --> 01:05:32,763
would say the key like he says that right if I be lifted up he'll draw them into himself
and I think the road
Speaker:
01:05:32,826 --> 01:05:41,060
Even churches that aren't really fundamental are not doing things, are doing all kinds of
method, our methodologies to bring people.
Speaker:
01:05:41,060 --> 01:05:42,701
It's not hard, right?
Speaker:
01:05:42,701 --> 01:05:44,531
You lift up the solution.
Speaker:
01:05:44,531 --> 01:05:49,504
And just like the snake healed the Israelites, they had a look and live, right?
Speaker:
01:05:49,504 --> 01:05:51,305
There's this song, Look and Live My Brother.
Speaker:
01:05:51,305 --> 01:05:51,975
Same thing, right?
Speaker:
01:05:51,975 --> 01:05:53,786
We have to look to Jesus.
Speaker:
01:05:53,786 --> 01:06:01,456
I think that's the beauty of the exchange, because I think it does a great job of pointing
people to a lifted Christ.
Speaker:
01:06:01,456 --> 01:06:03,230
I think it's really a God honor.
Speaker:
01:06:03,570 --> 01:06:08,473
method of explaining the gospel in real four steps.
Speaker:
01:06:08,473 --> 01:06:16,338
Whether it takes you eight weeks, 12 weeks, six months, four weeks, know, God is sovereign
and whatever somebody needs, he'll guide you to what that process looks like.
Speaker:
01:06:16,338 --> 01:06:21,000
Yeah, and I love the ground at the foot of the cross is level Yeah, right.
Speaker:
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,023
So none of us stand a bit an inch spiritually above anybody else And and we do have
respectable sins, right?
Speaker:
01:06:27,023 --> 01:06:34,617
There are sins that we feel like well, that's a more respectable rap sheet than that one
Yeah, but you know every you know, everybody has a rap sheet in heaven They're all equally
Speaker:
01:06:34,617 --> 01:06:43,151
disgusting to God and Jesus had to die equally for all of them and so, know this whole
idea that There's a certain type of sin that's more egregious than other that's just a
Speaker:
01:06:43,151 --> 01:06:43,851
misunderstanding.
Speaker:
01:06:43,851 --> 01:06:45,542
That's not based on anything in the Bible.
Speaker:
01:06:45,542 --> 01:06:46,272
So
Speaker:
01:06:46,525 --> 01:06:47,949
Anything else guys?
Speaker:
01:06:48,964 --> 01:06:51,648
No, thank you for the doing the exchange.
Speaker:
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:54,115
Yeah, I appreciate you having us on.
Speaker:
01:06:54,115 --> 01:06:54,540
Yeah.
Speaker:
01:06:54,540 --> 01:06:58,025
We're thankful for the exchange and yeah, we look forward to continue using it.
Speaker:
01:06:58,025 --> 01:06:58,516
It's a tool.
Speaker:
01:06:58,516 --> 01:07:01,700
It's a tool in our tool belt and we will absolutely continue using it.
Speaker:
01:07:01,700 --> 01:07:03,171
I highly recommend it.
Speaker:
01:07:03,656 --> 01:07:04,557
I love you both.
Speaker:
01:07:04,557 --> 01:07:17,763
You guys are great friends uh more more importantly, you are faithfully committed to the
Great Commission and relationally evangelistic and and wonderful examples of what we're
Speaker:
01:07:17,763 --> 01:07:23,936
trying to do enable laborers to go out into the harvest and um The harvest is plenteous.
Speaker:
01:07:23,936 --> 01:07:25,326
We don't have a harvest problem.
Speaker:
01:07:25,326 --> 01:07:33,370
We don't have a shortage No, we we have more Bible studies going on than than you know We
have more opportunities going on than we can handle personally in this area uh
Speaker:
01:07:33,370 --> 01:07:38,088
The issue is laborers, people getting up off the sidelines and getting involved.
Speaker:
01:07:38,088 --> 01:07:40,814
It's one of his requests to us, Things to pray for.
Speaker:
01:07:40,814 --> 01:07:42,818
Come quickly and pray for the laborers.
Speaker:
01:07:42,818 --> 01:07:43,329
Amen.
Speaker:
01:07:43,329 --> 01:07:44,340
Amen.
Speaker:
01:07:45,905 --> 01:07:46,466
Thank you.
Speaker:
01:07:46,466 --> 01:07:46,926
Thank you.
Speaker:
01:07:46,926 --> 01:07:47,779
m
Speaker:
01:07:47,779 --> 01:07:48,516
go.
Speaker:
01:07:48,885 --> 01:07:50,039
I don't know.
Speaker:
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:51,186
I'll find out.
Speaker:
01:07:51,186 --> 01:07:52,816
Can you see it there or no?
Speaker:
01:07:53,541 --> 01:07:55,001
Thank you Diane.
Speaker:
01:07:55,001 --> 01:07:57,541
I started feeling bad for you on like pushing number three.
Speaker:
01:07:57,541 --> 01:08:00,472
I'm like bro Diane is sitting right over there.
Speaker:
01:08:00,472 --> 01:08:02,763
You need to buy Diane like a cheesecake on the way home.
Speaker:
01:08:02,763 --> 01:08:05,028
See how long the money got don't say
Speaker:
01:08:06,251 --> 01:08:07,931
Um, hour and ten minutes.
Speaker:
01:08:08,130 --> 01:08:09,144
not bad.