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I'm Shelly.

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According to UN Women, one in three women will experience violence or sexual abuse at least once in their lifetimes.

Violence against women and girls continues to be a terrible scourge even in the 21st century.

Every woman Treaty is a nonprofit committed to ending this.

They're a global coalition of over 4,000 women's rights advocates and organizations in 169 nations advancing a treaty to end violence against women and girls.

With us today is Lisa Shannon, the co founder of Every Woman Treaty and chief of Global Diplomatic Campaign.

She's worked in domestic violence shelters and conducted field research on gender in India, Russia, Somalia, Iraq, Guatemala, Kenya and Congo.

She founded Run for Congo Women and co founded the first sexual violence crisis center in Mogadishu, Somalia.

Lisa is the author of Mama Coco and the Hundred Gunmen and A Thousand Sisters which won the Independent Publishers association Gold Award in 2010 for Best Book in.

In current events and foreign affairs.

Lisa is a true champion for women and girls and we're honored to feature her and talk about Every Woman Treaty.

Welcome, Lisa.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you so much for having me and for your amazing work.

Thank you, Lisa.

That means a lot.

Exciting.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Oh my God.

This is something that, that really is dear to my heart and I'm.

I'm excited about this conversation.

Yes.

We can't thank you enough for what you're doing.

Your work has made tremendous strides to champion the cause of women and girls.

Before we talk about what your organization does and is accomplishing, could you maybe let our listeners know some stats on violence?

I think too many times it's out of sight, out of mind.

I think a lot of people would be very stunned that it's a lot more common than people think.

Absolutely.

You know, you just cited the World Health organization statistic that 1 in 3 women are survivors of intimate partner violence or sexual assault minimum.

Those were statistics actually that were collected prior to the COVID pandemic where there was a tremendous spike in rates of violence against women, intimate partner violence, and with the advent of technology enabled violence.

There has also been a spike.

And then, of course, with all of the conflict that's happened around the world, and climate emergencies, as populations are moving, as refugees, rates of violence rise.

And so when we say one in three women are affected, that is really a minimum.

And it doesn't include all manner of forms of violence, like for instance, female genital mutilation, et cetera.

So it's safe to say that all of us know someone very close to us, if it's not ourselves, who are survivors of this violence, and that violence against women affects 100% of humanity.

I'll also say, you know, and this is something that often gets kind of lost in the dialogue, that the impact reaches far beyond just the impact on the individual who suffers the violence.

So mental health issues, substance abuse issues, all higher.

Suicide rates, et cetera, all flow from incidents of violence as well as missed work, et cetera.

But if you look at a community as well, very often it ends up limiting children's access to school.

So, for instance, you find in many areas, girls are, who may not have money for school fees are expected to effectively trade sex for access to school.

A lot of girls won't go to school because they're afraid to use the bathrooms because it's too risky.

Drug and alcohol abuse, more broadly, violent crime all the way up to war.

The rates of violence and how that's connected to violence in general in a particular country and then conflict with neighbors or within the country, very tight connections there.

So it has an impact on 100% of humanity and costs about 5% of the global economy as well.

So trillions of dollars a year are being sunk in our failure to address violence against women and deliver a safe world for women and girls.

Wow.

And this is happening in North America too, right?

Absolutely.

This violence happens everywhere.

There is no country, no culture that is immune.

It manifests differently in different parts of the world.

But for instance, in the United States, on college campuses, it's estimated that a minimum of one in five women will be sexually assaulted.

So, yes, the rates of violence and the increase in violence is actually happening all over the world right now.

And again, if you were to include technology enabled violence, cyber violence, there are some statistics that it's something like 70% of young women who have experienced it.

Now, what is technology enabled violence?

That is violence that's taking place online.

You know, it might be, for instance, if a girl has a boyfriend, is intimate with him, he might share photos of the of the their intimate moments or pictures that she didn't approve.

Online harassment cyber stalk talking.

I'll share one story from Somalia.

There was a girl who had a boyfriend of some kind.

They were intimate in some way, I don't know.

But he, he videotaped it and posted it on Facebook.

And in Somalia it's absolutely not okay for girls to be dating.

So her father found out about it and he attempted to kill her.

She ended up in the hospital.

Her, her father came and picked her up from the hospital, took her home and, and burned her to death.

Oh my gosh.

And so, oh my God.

And so when we say technology enabled violence, there is violence that's happening in the online sphere that then can, can spill over for sure into the real world.

But of course the, the, the damage that is done in the form of technology enabled violence.

You know, the PS Physical damage can be every bit as pronounced as something you know, that someone's experiencing physically.

Yeah.

Or to say there's no regulation for that whatsoever.

Globally.

Right.

I know that like I travel when I go to the Caribbean Islands exam, for example, I, I don't stay in these fancy posh resorts, right.

I, I like bring me, bring me to the hood, Bring me where the, the people really need it and I, I do cold calls ahead of time and I'll go visit the women's shelters.

I'll.

They have young girl centers.

They have homes where girls that are being raped, that have been raped, that have been removed from the families.

And I've been to Barbados a few times, three times already spoken to the women in the shelters.

They have Jabez House, which is a home where young girls who are prostituting themselves just to pay for education.

And they also, I also been to the prison there many times.

The island of St.

Vincent has many homes of, for young girls.

The island of Grenada, I've been there many times speaking to, I, I go to different schools and I, I create public events.

And the amount of rapes that is going on on those islands that the, the world doesn't see because they're just going there for the, for the, for the resorts.

Right.

They don't see the, the, the dark side, the ugliness.

I've been on TV a few times down there just to be an advocate for the, for these young girls to, to, to have to be a voice.

And I'm not just going to say the young girls because there's young boys too.

Right.

I went to one place in Grenada where there was 30 young boys and it's just heart wrenching and I'm trying to do the best that I can to be that voice so that these girls and boys, these children, learn to have a voice for themselves and try and break that.

That.

That dark.

That dark circle of poison.

Because I call it poison.

It is poison.

And then it.

It is.

And then it leads to sex trafficking, and then that's a whole other thing.

Right.

So it's awful.

So.

Yeah.

Well, what beautiful work you have done there.

And that breaking the silence, absolutely, is the first step, I mean, I think, because in so many areas of the world, it's something that's just not talked about, or there's so much shame associated with it that people are sort of brushing it under the rug.

We can't deal with what we're not able to have a conversation about.

Oh, I'm gonna say something.

It's.

It's not just like, we like to think that it's the men.

Right.

That do this, but it is in.

There was an.

In the island of Trinidad, there was a young girl who was being raped by her father.

And when she finally had the.

The strength to tell her parent, her mother about it, well, her mother and her grandmother took her in the shower and washed her with cayenne pepper inside.

And they were telling her that she was vile, like.

And I have.

Yeah, I was with.

You remember Charman Prince Shelly, when we interviewed her.

She's from the.

From Guyana.

So her and I do this.

This work, and we were in Grenada together, and we're getting this.

This.

This text from this young girl, and it was just like, oh, my God, how horrific.

So the grandmother and the mother were.

Were also involved in trying to silence this girl.

So I know we like to blame men, but sometimes it's also a general brainwashing of everybody.

Sure.

You know, so it's culturally ingrained, isn't it?

Well, I think the culture of impunity has been ingrained around the world in various forms, but the.

The hopeful thing here is that it is possible to address that.

You know, I think that if you were to do some deep digging, you would see that women and men who are perpetrating this violence, it's not fundamentally who they are.

That is learned behavior.

One of the incidents that I point to is, I don't know if y'all are familiar with the incident that happened at Stanford University several years back where a young woman was passed out and a guy, Brock Turner, was raping her.

And two young men were passing by, and they saw it and they.

They interrupted it, and a court case was pursued.

It was a very light punishment for that young man.

But the interesting thing is the two young men who interrupted the behavior they were raised in, they were Scandinavian.

And so it's interesting because they have prevention education programs in Scandinavia.

So those young men were raised to believe that it was their duty to interrupt if they saw something like that happening.

And prevention education programs are actually tremendously effective, can be tremendously effective in interrupting this cycle of violence and what we consider normal or acceptable, and can really shift the focus from victim blaming, doing bizarro things like you just described with the cayenne pepper, to focusing on how we relate to it.

When these incidents do come up, how do we communicate that it's unacceptable?

How do we interrupt it?

How do we raise young people to behave that way?

And it doesn't take a huge percentage of the population to decide it's unacceptable to really start interrupting the cycle.

And so, for instance, with prevention education, you know, I think of an incident, I was in Guatemala interviewing women about the abuse that was happening there in indigenous communities.

And the rates of incest were.

Or sexual violence with family member, you know, from family members, were very, very, very high.

Because women weren't given freedom of movement very often.

They were.

It was almost like false imprisonment.

Like, they had to have a very compelling reason, like need to go to the doctor or something to even leave the house.

And so I was conducting these interviews, and when we got home that night, my translator shared with me that when she was in fourth grade, her teacher had done this kind of good touch, bad touch curriculum with them and taught them about what's okay, what's not okay.

And when she was 10 years old, that was fourth grade, at home, her father tried to rape her.

But because she had done this curriculum and she knew it wasn't okay, and she didn't have to go along with it, she interrupted it.

And though she has no contact with her father to this day, she did manage to stop ongoing abuse because she had received that curriculum.

Right.

So there are examples of that all over the world.

And it's interesting because the message is different for boys and girls.

With boys, what they seem to need to understand is that other men and boys will disapprove of the behavior if they engage in it.

And so that's where things like training for police and judges, authority figures around preventing and interrupting violence have been very effective.

And then prevention education programs for young people between the ages of, say, roughly 9 or 10 to 22 years old, that's an enormously effective intervention.

It really is.

Yes.

Yeah.

Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

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Welcome welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.

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We want to help as many women as possible.

Violence against women and girls affects 100% of humanity.

The fact that it's a worldwide phenomenon in the 21st century is just a terrible thing.

The trickle down effect impacts everyone in a community.

Rates of violence have a tight connection to war as well.

Violence against women costs about 5% of the global economy.

Every Woman Treaty is working to stop the violence around the world.

There are a global coalition of over 4,000 women's rights advocates and organizations in 169 nations and advancing a treaty to end violence against women and girls.

Lisa Shannon, the co founder of Every Woman Treaty has been giving us some very important information.

Lisa, in our previous segment you talked about Prevention education.

It really is effective.

I totally agree with you.

I don't know if you're familiar with the Babylonian encounter.

No teaches good touch and bad touch.

I was actually involved with that.

It's about a little space alien that comes out of a bubble and learns good touch and bad touch.

And we went to elementary schools.

Oh, great.

I played bub.

And I had to learn about good touch and bad touch, and I had to be trained.

There were kids that came forward.

We had different age groups from age 5 up to the age 12, and we had social workers there.

And I was amazed at the number of kids who came to me because they considered me more of a child, and they were telling me somebody was touching them.

Our play resulted in five convictions.

Whoa.

Yeah.

That is exactly what I'm talking about.

That is an effective intervention.

Yeah.

And I was shocked at some of the stats I'd learned just getting involved with that play on the amount of sexual abuse that was going on right in our backyards.

It was just, you know.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I'll share.

You know, for me, you know, I got into this work.

My first job out of college was working at a domestic violence crisis center.

And then I got into doing the work for Congo, raising money for women in the Congo.

And it was when I was about 35.

I was speaking in the area.

I'm from the Pacific Northwest, about violence against women in Congo.

And people started sharing with me the trends around trafficking in this particular.

Around the I5 corridor in.

In the Pacific Northwest.

And as they were describing the recruiting process and the grooming process, my blood went cold because they were describing exactly what had happened to my sister when she was 14.

And up until that point, even though I was working in the movement and talking about violence against women, I.

You know, the frame in my family has.

Had always been about my sister making bad choices at that time, not a predatory system that was targeting vulnerable young women and.

And.

And severely abusing them.

And that's trauma that she's lived with, you know, the.

Up until now.

And so, you know, it so often is much closer to home than we think.

Yeah.

You know, I.

I also learned recently, just in the last few years, my mom has been a real sort of, you know, sister in arms with all of this.

We've gone out and done lots of fundraising together, and she's always.

She was always volunteering at Run.

Run for Congo women events, et cetera, speaking out against the horrific attacks that were happening in Congo.

And.

And just a couple years ago, I learned that she had been gang raped when she was 8 years old in front of her.

Wow.

And this happened her, her father was a military guy, he was stationed in the UK and it happened in the uk.

So it was interesting that she had never, she had never talked with me about that.

Even though we were busy going out and doing all this work for women and girls in the Congo and the horrific things they had lived through.

And what, what she lived through was pretty similar to that, but had trouble even acknowledging that for herself.

I'll remember when we were talking about it, I was like, mom, you know, have you ever sought therapy for this, et cetera?

Because she was always doing self help kind of things.

And she was like, oh, Lisa, these sort of things happen to every girl.

And I was like, wow, you know, that's how deeply entrenched and internalized a lot of this stuff can be.

So when people talk about intergenerational trauma now, I like, I have a pretty deep understanding of that just in my bones, knowing that's where my mom, you know, had, had been coming from with this and hadn't even she.

In her mind, it didn't even rise to the level that she would share that with me.

So, you know, I think again, we're all sort of dealing with it and it happens everywhere and very much in our, in our own backyard, very much in our own families.

So as much as we'd love to be able to relate to this as a problem that's happening for, you know, those people out there who may be on some, I don't know, different moral plane than we are, that's not the case.

This is a human issue.

It's a human.

And it's cross cutting.

And it's gone on what, since time began, essentially.

Absolutely, yeah.

Women and girls.

It's time it stopped.

And I know your organization has got to have had some serious roadblocks.

I want to commend you for all your hard work.

What has your organization been able to accomplish and what are some of the pushbacks that you've been getting?

Sure.

So, you know, I had co founded Run for Congo women, raised a lot of money for women in the Congo who were survivors of violence, co founded the first sexual violence crisis center in Mogadishu, as you mentioned.

But as I sat and talked with women, you know, you just hear over and over again, like, thank you for the support, recovering, but please do what you can to end the violence.

And I think every journey of activism ultimately is a journey upstream.

So that's what happened for Me, you know, I.

I learned that in international law, there are very few prohibitions around violence against women.

So, I mean, explicit, legally binding prohibitions.

So for the most part, violence against women is not cemented as against human rights law, which is shocking because violence against women is the most widespread human rights violation on earth.

Oh, yeah.

And so we.

Yeah, we.

I mean, I, I couldn't believe that the Convention on All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, it includes trafficking and child marriage, but beyond that has no mention of violence against women, nothing around domestic violence, sexual assault, anything like that.

So there were calls from experts at that time for a treaty on violence against women and girls.

And so we have spent the last 13 years really focused on getting to develop accountability for nations to take proactive steps to prevent the violence from happening so women don't have to live through this.

So we know the interventions that are effective.

We've talked a little bit about the prevention education piece of it, but I'll explain a little bit more.

There are sort of four main interventions that are really effective.

One is strong law.

So in, for instance, nations that just have a domestic violence law, not even measuring how strong it is, just a domestic violence law, 32% lower mortality rate for women.

So there's clearly a relationship between having a law and women's safety.

So we want really strong law for there to be just a set of standards.

Secondly, though, it's better if the people who are supposed to implement the law know about it.

Right.

So I'll give another example.

From Guatemala, they passed a femicide law in 2008.

One of the issues that they would have, though, is sometimes the.

They rotate their police forces every two years and so new police would come into a particular area and women would come to report domestic violence, and they just send them home.

Even though there was actually a dedicated femicide court just a couple miles down the road, they didn't know it.

Right.

So making sure that police, judges, doctors, nurses, anyone who's coming into direct contact with survivors is familiar with the law and resources available.

Right.

Super important.

Then the third thing is services for survivors.

And that's where most people have focused their attention.

Shelters, hotlines, that kind of thing.

And then lastly, prevention education.

So if you do those four things, you're going to see a drastic reduction in rates of violence against women.

So what we were calling for, what we are calling for in a treaty on violence against women is that every nation on earth would commit to implementing those interventions, as well as increased funding to end violence against women and a Scorecard, so a metrics based reporting system so we can see exactly what every nation on Earth is doing to fulfill its duty to protect women from violence.

In terms of our journey, we did a lot of work with frontline women's rights activists first and foremost, and spent about eight years in consultation, not really asking do we need a treaty, but what would it need to be to be effective?

That's how we landed on those four things, which is very consistent with what experts around the world say, and then started talking to nations.

We've met with a lot of nations around the world, most nations around the world, to talk about the need for a global treaty have been spearheading dialogue on that in places like Geneva and at the United nations in New York.

And so far we have had 16 nations call for an additional protocol to CEDAW, meaning it would be a treaty that is attached to the treaty on Discrimination against Women that would cement into international law and end to violence against women and girls.

Bravo.

No, cedaw.

What is cedaw?

Yeah, CEDAW is the convention to eliminate all forms of discrimination against women.

Okay.

And so it is, you know, in the human rights, there are sort of nine core human, human rights treaties, and this is the one that relates to women.

It's primarily focused on discrimination.

And so right now, reporting on violence against women is happening to the CEDAW committee, even though there isn't legally binding language.

They've developed recommendations like the treaty should be interpreted to include.

And actually, in 2017, about five years after we started this campaign, they introduced recommendation 35, which outlines interventions that governments should take.

It's not hard law, so to speak, but we would love to see the contents of recommendation 35 turn into this Optional Protocol.

Because when we compared side by side, what activists around the world wanted and what's in recommendation 35, they're nearly identical.

And so what we want to do is develop recommendation 35, which is attached to CEDAW, into this protocol to the CEDAW Convention.

And you know, it's one of the most ratified treaties on earth.

There are only five nations that haven't ratified it, including the United States.

I will say, okay, yeah, so, so there's a lot of buy in to that, to that framework.

And there are lots of things we can do to strengthen that framework while acknowledging the tremendous successes that that it has shown.

There have been a lot of improvements on violence against women law based on the work of the CEDAW Committee so far, so definitely celebrating that, but just wanting something that's Legally binding.

I love what you're doing and.

Yeah, no kidding.

Wow.

I'm.

I'm, like, floored.

It's.

I'm just so impressed right now.

Yeah.

Well, the shocking thing really, is that violence against women isn't a violation of international law.

So beyond that, it's just kind of.

I don't understand that.

I mean, it's so deep, it's dehumanizing.

It's basically.

You know, if you allow violence against women and girls, you are basically looking at them as less than human.

I mean, there are laws against abusing animals.

Yes.

I mean, I just.

I know that a lot of this is culturally ingrained and somehow people think it's acceptable or they want to bury it, but it's.

The only way it's going to change is education and.

Yes.

Laws.

And the fact that countries don't want to embrace this, they want it to continue.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I think they're, you know, I think the hard part is there's a lot of bluster around it.

So no nation would say they are for violence against women.

So there's a lot of chest pounding about how.

How people want to address it.

But, you know, I think the.

The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

Like, for instance, on a funding front.

Right.

Because you can only get these inter.

The strong law, accountability for the people implementing it services and prevention, education.

You only get those things if you have money to implement them.

And in 2017, 2018, the total global funding, international funding, meaning between nations to end violence against Women was only $408 million in a year, which is about 11 cents per female on Earth.

I mean, you know, Kathy, you travel.

Can you buy a bottle of water in Barbados for 11 cents?

No.

No.

Right.

Could you buy a stick of gum there?

Maybe?

I don't know.

Right.

So it's just not serious.

It's not serious.

So I think we need to be real when we say, you know, we're against violence against women and girls, that we want to see a stop to it.

Okay, well, let's put our money where our mouth is, you know, and honestly, I mean, given.

Given the trajectory of where we are globally right now and a lot of the changes and setbacks that are happening right now, I do find myself pondering the need for a potentially doing a Sierra fundraising run series again, where women just go out and start raising the money.

You know, like, we just get out and start raising the money ourselves rather than waiting for governments to do it.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You know, it's.

It's it's just time.

Grassroots works well.

That's how women got the right to vote.

Absolutely.

You know.

Yep.

And it hasn't been that long that women have had the right to vote in the United States.

Just a little over a hundred years.

Exactly.

Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

I have one question for you.

Do you want to stop worrying about the irs?

If the answer is yes, then look no further.

I've been around for years.

I've helped countless people across the country, and my success rate speaks for itself.

So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems.

What are you waiting for?

If you owe more than $10,000 to the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back.

Industry Movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more.

Help us promote the best of our industry.

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

There's no excuse that violence against women and girls still exists anywhere in the world.

It's a terrible cycle that poisons every society.

Lisa Shannon is the co founder of Every Woman Treaty that's working to stop the violence.

As a global coalition, it's important for everyone to get involved at a grassroots level to stop it and do it country by country.

It requires a village.

Lisa is one of the catalysts behind these efforts.

In spite of the many, many roadblocks she's encountered, Lisa says it's been a journey upstream in international law.

There are very few prohibitions that stop violence against women.

It's not cemented in human rights law.

That has to end.

Lisa's group has made tremendous strides.

Her group needs more help.

If we can ever stop this scourge.

It requires money, too, lots of it.

In 2018, the total global funding to end violence against women was about 11 cents per every woman in the world.

Think about that, Lisa.

What can women do, and men for that matter?

It needs to be a unified front.

What can people do to help you to make change even in their own communities?

I mean, there's so many places that I think could make the change?

Absolutely.

I think, you know, I feel like the right answer, the right combo pack, is to find one tangible thing that you can do for a specific community.

It doesn't need to be your community specifically.

It can be.

But for instance, I did fundraising for women in the Congo and in Somalia.

Right.

So you.

You.

But having that impact on individuals while choosing one additional thing that you can do to push for systems change more broadly.

So people for sure can send an email to their governments encouraging them to support the call for a treaty to end violence against women and girls.

That's a very simple thing someone could do.

And at the same time, looking at where they can go locally, or is there an organization who's doing great work around the world that they'd like to support?

You know, for instance, I'm not sure whether or not people are tracking the news around cuts to U.S.

foreign funding right now, but there are a lot of organizations doing amazing work around the world to support survivors and get systems change at the national or local level who have just.

Just lost a tremendous amount of funding.

Like, eight organizations are laying off staff right now.

So finding a way to donate and support or bring together a group of friends to donate and support one of these organizations would be deeply meaningful, not just in terms of the direct impact, but the signal that it sends.

Like, we're going to lead.

We're not going to wait for governments to do this for us.

We're going to step up what we can right now and hope that governments will follow our lead.

Right.

I think that's really important.

The grassroots level, community organizations as well as churches, you know, they do a lot of missionary work with churches and so forth.

This should be a cause because when you think about it, violence against women and girls, that is a scar that continues.

And it's a scar and a wound that continues to fester generation after generation.

It's not good.

It's not good for society.

So making a change like that makes the world a whole lot better place.

Absolutely.

And the work that people are doing within faith communities can be tremendous as well.

So I think opening that dialogue with your own community, you know, your church community, would be a great place to start to have that dialogue around.

How are we, you know, how are we as a community communicating with, you know, our young people?

Are we doing prevention education here?

Are we talking about what healthy, happy relationships look like, et cetera?

Could be a really powerful place to plug in.

Where are some prevention programs that you're talking about, Deb?

I assume that they're around the United States.

Where can people tap into that?

Ooh, that's a good question.

I mean, I think one organization I would point people to because it's a coalition of organizations.

So you could find organizations within is Men Engage, which is an organization of groups where they really focus on the culture change for men in violence prevention.

And they have partners all over the world.

So if people are looking for a particular place that they could plug in, that would be really meaningful.

But prevention education programs exist all over the world in many different forms.

There's also one that operates in West Africa called Tostan, that has done extraordinary work moving communities away from a standard practice of female genital mutilation.

And it's been very effective.

And in terms of smaller community organizations, I'm not sure exactly because very often those curriculums go through school systems, community groups, that kind of thing.

So I think people would just have to do a bit of research to call around and find out.

Okay.

Yes.

Because it takes a village and.

Yeah.

Whatever happened, I can just ask, whatever happened to the education program that you were a part of, where you were.

Playing the Babylonian encounter?

Yeah.

I'm seeing it's still there, and I think it's in Michigan.

Okay.

I think it originally started in Colorado because I hadn't thought about it until this conversation is like, is that still around?

And.

Yeah, it is.

And it teaches good touch and bad touch to children.

And this is good because it is making a difference.

Yeah.

And of course, that was privately funded, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's that kind of stuff that makes the difference.

So that there can be intervention, you know, and makes the change.

I mean, every little bit.

But I love the programs you're talking about where, you know, children can learn.

You know, this isn't okay.

It isn't okay to do to somebody else.

It isn't okay to have it done to you.

Absolutely.

Changing perspectives and cultures and culture ingrained thoughts.

It can be real difficult.

But, you know, stopping the cycle of violence, it just makes sense.

And violence against anyone isn't acceptable.

Yes.

And I think if we want to end violence against anyone, start with ending violence against women and girls.

Yeah.

Because that's very often where the seeds are planted that.

That lead to other forms of violence.

Like I mentioned, even predictability around what nations will go to war is very.

Is very directly linked to rates of violence against women.

That's interesting.

If people have learned the currency of violence, let's say, that's going to show up all manner of places.

So if we want to end violence against anyone.

And I would say, I would just argue if we want human flourishing, we have.

We have to focus on one of the root causes, which is violence against women and girls.

It's interesting you say currency of violence.

It's almost like I was thinking the same thing.

Like, wow, that's well said.

Wow.

Violence.

It's almost like saying people perceive violence as power.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And no, there are other ways to succeed, and it isn't by marginalizing and abusing other people.

We have a warped context, and it needs to be changed.

I mean, I just, I would love to see violence against women and girls and violence, period, eradicated, because it's a scourge.

It's really an epidemic, a pandemic that has gone on for centuries.

And I love what your organization's doing, Lisa.

Well, thank you.

It's been a long effort.

And like I said, I think given the current landscape, we're looking closely at what we can move forward right now.

For instance, getting the scorecard going now as opposed to waiting until the treaty passes, just based on the current global climate.

Looking closely at what can we move forward?

What can grassroots groups move forward independent of endorsements from nations at this point?

But we do have a lot of momentum.

I mean, Cote d'ivoire and the Maldives just signed the call over the last few days.

Excellent.

Yeah.

So the 16 nations that have come on board have all come on board within the last year and a half or so.

So it's, you know, that's after 13 years of work.

So we do have momentum.

Excellent.

We need to keep that ball rolling.

I want to see that happen.

Lisa, how can people help your organization?

Because the more, the merrier.

Absolutely.

Well, people can visit everywoman.org and sign the call for the global treaty.

And obviously, we very much need resources right now to support frontline activists as they are raising their voices in their local contexts as well as globally to end this violence.

So if people are able to donate, that's great.

And then again, writing to your own government and letting them know that you would really love to see us create a treaty to end violence against women and girls and that it's high time.

Absolutely.

So people go to your website, and I see that's on your homepage, everywoman.org it says join the call.

So people just put in their name and their email, and then they can also.

They can be put on the mailing list.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we send out alerts and let people know what's happening.

Calls to action, et Cetera.

So that's a great place to plug in.

And this is something that would be good for people to talk about.

Say go to everywoman.org so people can be educated on this.

Education is so essential because out of sight, out of mind.

I don't think people think about this and how huge the problem is.

I think people don't think about it on purpose.

I think people don't think about it or talk about it because everyone has some kind of deep personal imprint from it.

It.

And so the shame and trauma that may be vicarious, maybe someone they know, but I think that's what's driving the silence.

So the more we are able to call it out.

Yeah.

So that's another really important thing that everyone can do is really listen.

If there's someone in their life who's been through this, really listen.

And if you've been through it yourself, reach out and get some support to heal it.

You know, the post traumatic stress is real and not just from physical violence, but very often survivors will say the emotional violence leaves an even deeper scar.

It does.

I mean, that thing, I think, you know, Kathy, as you were talking about before we started our conversation now, that healing, you know, just the imprint of who you think you are, being told that you're worthless, you know, for such a long time, and then completely changing or transforming your self concept, that is its own act of defiance, that's its own act of resistance that is absolutely so important for thinking about how we transform this globally.

Doing that work for yourself or supporting someone in your life.

You know, I have a friend and I'll mention she was a survivor of abuse when she was younger and you know, when she was much younger and then in her 20s, she left that situation and ended up on a different track.

I won't mention who it is, but I will say she went on to create a company that went public over the last few years for about $4.5 billion.

Wow.

So it's interesting how abusers want to tell us who we are and what we're capable of in the world.

And they don't have any idea.

No, they don't.

We.

I know we have to tap into our own power for transformation.

That's right.

And.

And then share that.

Right.

You know, I think combating, you know, our thoughts aren't.

Our thoughts aren't real.

They're just thoughts.

Right.

And so much of what we've been raised in, kind of swimming in patriarchy, you know, we have these thoughts that are just regurgitations of what we've been swimming in our whole lives.

So being able to really address that and transform and choose the thoughts that we want to be having about ourselves and really defining for ourselves based on our own values, who we are, is incredibly important work and should never be diminished as a huge part, Huge part of societal transformation and culture change.

Absolutely.

I see on your website, Lisa, you also have a Take action page.

It's really informative for people to join the call.

There's a link for.

You can send a letter to your government, join your coalition or donate.

So that's everywoman.org takeaction.

I highly recommend people check that out, too.

I want to encourage people to get involved.

I hope we're motivating listeners, because every little bit is going to make the change.

And you've really.

After 13 years worth of work, you're really gaining the momentum.

It's taken quite a while.

We need to keep that momentum going.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And it takes a global outcry.

So joining the call is joining that global outcry, and it could not be more important than it is today.

We need to all scream.

Yes.

Very loudly.

Yes.

Oh, I love this.

Thank you for sharing what you're doing and educating our listeners.

I think sometimes people need to be reminded.

Absolutely.

And if people aren't motivated after this interview, I hope they are.

Well, thank you.

Pretty sure they will be.

I'm motivated.

I'm like, all right, let's go do it.

Stand back.

Yes.

Well, just thank you for everything that you're doing to raise your voices and change culture and change what's considered normal by being the just loud, open, bold voices for change, it just means the world.

Thank you, Lisa.

Yes.

We're all about empowering women, and this is part of it.

And thank you for what you're doing, Lisa.

You're a godsend.

This is just what society needs.

Yeah, well, fingers crossed.

We'll.

We'll.

We'll just keep making progress.

That's right.

That will happen.

Thank you, Lisa, for sharing with us.

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