Electronic Walkabout.

No one should have to walk through life alone.

We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times.

Everyone needs a little direction now and again.

And TC and Mad Dog are here to show you the way.

A podcast where we talk about the important things in life.

Come journey with us.

The Electronic Walkabout.

Well, good day, good afternoon, and good evening to all our listeners around the world.

Mad Dog, how good are you reading minds?

TC not good at all.

Well, that's a bit of a trick question, but the answer is that none of us are really good at reading minds.

And that really kind of brings us out to what the topics is of this episode.

And it's communication.

Nice.

And I'm sure that you're going to have some.

Some important points to share with our listeners on that.

Most of us struggle with the skill, and I don't.

I don't know about you, I think I'm still learning this skill.

I think you have to be humble enough to always have that viewpoint to improve your communication skills.

But.

But I will tell you this, and this is from my own experience and some reflections on some projects I've been involved in.

Typically, when you look and take two steps back when these projects are done and let's say they're not successful or they're all successful, communication always seems to be that tipping point where it varies.

The degree of success a hundred percent.

People just need to know exactly what the expectations are, what they're being measured on, and when you can communicate these things properly, your teams are more effective or those that you're working with.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Thinking someone has understood what you've communicated should never be taken for granted.

You have an obligation to ensure you have made yourself clear.

I think I know.

I.

Early in my career, I suffered from this.

I assumed a lot.

I assumed what my customers were talking about.

And then afterwards it was like, nope, I missed the mark there.

So I had to change my way of doing things.

So at the end of discussions, I had to reiterate back to ensure that we were clear and that I communicated effectively what their goals were.

And then surprisingly, stuff stays on track.

And it stays on track.

Isn't that funny how that works?

I'll say something is simple, that and literally a quick conversation can make it go sideways.

Have you ever had one of those conversations where you're saying one thing one way and the other person's saying exactly the same thing but a different way, but there's no communication?

I call that my wife.

We come at things from different Angles sometimes so many times.

And at the end of it it's like, wow, we're arguing the exact same thing.

But we didn't listen to each other and you know, we dug our heels in.

Well, so we're going to talk about that stuff as well.

Well, so join us as we share the importance of communication in our lives and some pointers on how to communicate more effectively.

But first, as always, a thought for the day.

Learning from the past has no meaning until the knowledge is applied with no application.

Destiny is the same lesson tomorrow.

I like that.

Self improvement's always a journey.

Let's just build this episode on a little bit of a foundation.

So what, what is communication?

What is it?

When is it achieved?

What is communication like the basis of communication?

I think relaying information in a clear, effective manner to another party, if I were just to try and broad stroke what communication was.

Okay, so that's, that's perfect because that's, that's where we want to go.

And then the, the other part of that equation, that that person actually understood what you communicated and not something completely different.

But really you're on the same page at this point.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think a lot of those lessons can come from your children because, you know, you ask them to do something, they nod their head and then you say, well, what did say to you?

If you could just let me know.

And if they can give it back to you, then you've communicated properly.

But nine times out of 10, they checked out at the beginning of the conversation.

Well, there's a certain amount of truth at that for sure.

So I'll just flip it around.

The other what is not communication?

Thinking that's the opposite.

And what I said previous is just assuming like, yeah, okay, I heard words come out of your mouth and you know, I'm going to put them together for how I think they were meant as opposed to maybe getting clarity.

So you can misinterpret said communication if it isn't clear.

And that is so simple to do.

And I would, I'm pretty safe.

Safe.

And say this, it happens on a daily basis.

I don't know if I'm going to jump ahead too much, but just, you know, given your line of work that you were in, I would imagine communication, it's mildly important.

Mildly important.

We'll talk a little bit about that as well.

Because I mean, if, if, let's say we're working on something together and let's say there's no room for error, the communication has to be strong and there's processes that they're entertained to make sure the communication is strong.

But sometimes we still fall short with that there.

And there's reasons that.

And we'll talk more about that as well.

But let's keep it really simple.

Again, how does it affect our everyday.

Life effect is in how communication affects us or just trying to narrow that.

You want me to fine tune it for you?

Yeah, please.

If you wouldn't mind communicating that to me a little better.

That would be.

Isn't that great?

Boom.

That.

Nicely done.

Nicely done.

So if I get up in the morning, okay, so and I'm, I'm talking to, to my wife, I'm saying okay, this is the plan for the day and I go on my way, she goes on her way.

And yet at the end of the day we're supposed to meet somewhere and we're not at the same spot.

So there's a communication or miscommunication and it's, it's things like that where, and you just mentioned with the kids too.

I mean how many times do you have to repeat yourself till so that the said communication is actually landed where it needs to land?

I think after a few repetitions of that, the eyebrows get raised and the look gets a little stirred and they, they figure it out pretty quick.

But, but yeah, it's like, you know, you could assume that you're communicating effectively but if the person you're talking to is not on the same page or doesn't get it, are you an effective communicator?

Well that, that's a really, really good question.

And self reflection is an important consideration when you're trying to develop that communication skill more to the everyday life.

And I was actually reading an article about this today.

So a couple goes to the bank and they communicate to the bank that hey look, we want to, we want to refinance our mortgage so we can get rid of some debts.

Makes perfect sense.

People are in a tough spot right now.

Let's make that work.

So the bank goes ahead and qualifies them for the, well just say for a second discussion.

$57,000.

So that, that's going to get them out of debt.

There's going to be some breathing room, there's going to be less stress at home.

So it's perfect.

Well dial back two years.

And the federal government has this program, it is a first time owner's mortgage helper kind of thing where you can get a loan, a no interest loan and there's no expectation to pay it back until actually you sell the house okay, so that's great.

Gets you in the market and you're good to go.

For some reason, after they were approved, they got the funds.

They paid off that $40,000 CMHC loan.

One loan to pay another.

So at the end of the day, the couple still had debt.

They had an extra $57,000 on their mortgage, and that is still waiting to be resolved.

Wow.

But that's a communication thing, because what they're suggesting is that one of the agencies should have asked the customer if that's what they wanted.

Right?

Yeah.

In the qualifying process, to your point, there needs to be that clarity and, you know, there should be guardrails behind that to help people not get further in debt.

So you think about that, how important that is and getting back to, let's say, having communications with our, our sons, daughters, other family members, like, what are you going to do with your life?

What's your plan?

And how are we going to make that work?

If they want to go to school, what's the process?

And how do they figure that out?

And if you communicate that to, let's say, from A to Z, and quite succinctly, and they still don't understand it, the onus is on their part from the communication.

So thinking about that, though, let's.

Let's kind of change gears a bit.

Has technology helped us communicate?

Kifik?

No.

Hey, you want to stop?

I think.

Sorry, let me, Let me pause for a second.

I think the ease of sending messages is one thing, but there's an art to communicating, in my opinion.

I guess it also depends on, you know, the line of business you're in or how it's being applied.

But there's inflection in tone, there's emphasis on words that you don't get from reading something electronic versus either on the phone or having a discussion with somebody.

So I think the direction might be clear, but maybe the message gets missed sometimes.

And I think you're right.

And that's some of the.

It kind of leads into the next question, like, what are we missing when we're communicating through technology?

And you.

And you said tone, which is a very important thing.

And it always makes me laugh because with the old texting, people would always text in capitals because they didn't know.

Why are you yelling at me?

Why are you yelling at them?

They didn't know how to uppercase, lowercase.

Yeah, and that's.

But that's.

They are assuming, oh, they might not have realized it.

And there was probably just a nice, you know, sentence or two.

And the other person's like, what is this person's problem?

So is that effective at communicating?

I don't think so.

No.

No.

But if it, but if I am sitting down having coffee with you and we're having a conversation, whether it be something serious or not, I'm paying attention to, let's say, your tone for sure.

And here's a big one, you know, on verbal communication and you know, whether you're, you're open or you're close, arms crossed, arms cross, that kind of stuff.

And if your arms are crossed for shoulder, normally they would say that's a, that's a barrier to communication.

If you have someone that's open, then, okay, I can share some stuff with you.

Especially if it's something that, like, I, I don't want to share with a bunch of people, but I trust you with that.

So I'm, I'm feeling comfortable.

Just by virtue of the way you're carrying yourself right now.

Yeah.

And you know, when you're more comfortable with people, the.

I think that the communication would be a lot more fluid and back and forth as opposed to.

If you're always being cautious about what you say or you've got your guard up, you might not be communicating as effectively because you're always second guessing what you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So say to say, texting, messaging or whatever those messaging apps are, they're a type of communication, but they don't hit the level that we're talking.

No, no.

It's the difference between.

Hey, honey, can you pick up a loaf of bread and a quarter milk on your way home?

That, that's, that's easy.

Text back and forth.

But if it's a. I'd like to talk to you about the way you talked to me last night.

Okay.

That, that should not be done via text.

Yeah.

And, and it's funny and we've heard of it before.

The adult that, that person that breaks up in a relationship through.

Yes, yes, brutal, I am.

That's the one thing.

And you know that I, with my boys, when they started dating, I said, you know what?

The only thing I'm going to ask of you is that if it's not working with this person, that you actually have a conversation with them, let them know this isn't working.

I'd still like to remain friends and just carry on with your life.

Don't ghost people, don't not talk to them.

Don't give them some other contrived story.

Just be upfront and honest with you.

Them know, I'm, I'm just wondering here.

Just listening to what you're saying.

And I thought about it as we, we were getting ready to do this podcast.

But when we have those easy conversations and we learn to communicate effectively, when we have the, the, the more difficult conversations, let's say if you're having money issues or relationship challenges.

Yeah.

That, that ability to communicate is so much easier because you've taken the time to develop that skill.

Yeah.

And you, you, you get to know the person you're talking with you like you'd said before, you get to learn their body language and how they're information.

And you know, I always, if my boys ever got in bad trouble, which they didn't really, or if my wife and I were butting heads, we'd go for a drive and park somewhere just to remove all distractions.

And it was just one on one looking at each other and having a conversation and just being in that moment.

And sure, to the boys it was nerve wracking when I said, hey, it's time to go for a drive.

Oh no, where are we going?

But you know, at the end they, they understood there was very clear direction give or feedback given and you know, it just, it, it made for a better outcome in my opinion.

Have you ever taken the time when you're having those conversations, let's say with your boys and all of a sudden you're getting back to that self reflection kind of thing, like how am I doing?

Am I communicating?

Like what are you going?

Are you truly understanding what I'm saying to you?

Because if I'm not, I got, I got to know and I'll try, I'll try explain it to you from a different perspective so it is clear to you.

Yeah, I, the biggest thing that I tried was staying away from allowing them to have one word answers.

If it's yes or no, it's easy for them to get out of it.

Yes.

But if you actually open up the conversation and specifically ask a question which would cause them to form a sentence to rebuttal, then, then I can hear.

Okay, yes, they're getting it.

It's, it's, he's telling me what we've just talked about.

So there's a little bit of a sense of comfort that they understood.

So we're talking open ended questions.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And that's, that's, that's so important when you, when you, because if, if you don't want to ask the open ended questions, you don't have a dialogue.

If you don't have a dialogue, you're not communicating.

Yeah.

You have no idea whether an individual is getting the message you're trying to send.

At that point, especially kids, it's easy to say, yes, I know what I did wrong, yes, no, I won't ever do it again.

Like, it just, they gotta expand on that more.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, I mean, we've kind of danced around this too, but the importance of listening and not just hearing what's being said is understanding.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

And I, I know we've talked about it before.

That whole idea of active listening and just, just to, just to be clear on that, the opposite is listening to respond where you're really not paying attention to what's being said to you because you're already thinking about what the response is going to be.

Correct.

And you know, I suffered from that greatly in the beginning part of my career.

Somebody would just finish the sentence and maybe even before they finished, I would blurt out answers, thinking that that's a thing you want to hear over the course of time, you know, I, I, I take a strateg.

Somebody finishes speaking, I count two seconds to make sure that they're done speaking.

I take a second before I jump in and rebuttal.

But it's, it's an art to figure out how to listen.

You sure, it's easy to say, but it is not, you know, if it's an important conversation and you have to be in it and appreciate what it is that you're hearing and apply said information appropriately.

And when you say set information, and if I put it in the context of again, a serious conversation where, and, and let's be honest, just because you spend the time thinking about what I, what do I need to say?

I'm spending time think about the words, the important words that I want to add emphasis to.

Whatever I'm trying to share with you because it's so important doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get the message first time around.

You might have to communicate a few different ways.

And if you think that all of a sudden, okay, okay, this is the solution to the problem.

This is what I want you to do.

A, B and C. And it made myself clear, we're done with that.

It's not going to happen.

No, I've had, I've interviewed people in my career before.

I always said, you know, if I ask you a question, take your time to think about it before you answer.

And this one guy sat there for about a minute and a half just staring at me in dead Silence.

And he was trying to formulate a response, but he actually took the time.

But it was very awkward because the silence after the minute, I'm like, I think you should be answering right now.

I sat there and he just killed it.

But he took the time because he listened to what I asked.

He paused.

He didn't rush it.

And then he gave me a great answer.

And I thought.

I respected him greatly for.

So you bring up a good point.

More importantly, you were uncomfortable with this island balance.

Yep.

Because you have to learn to be comfortable with science as well.

You do.

Yeah.

You.

You don't need to.

All of a sudden there's science, like at a doc.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's.

Yeah.

I've, I've.

I've experienced some very different personalities in my career.

And yeah, you can take a lot from people when you see those types of, you know, traits or practices, you know, being displayed.

Silly, silly, silly question, but I'm going to do it.

What are the basic tools we need for communication and do we use them effectively?

That's a trick question, by the way.

Okay.

Don't think too hard.

And I'm just going to sit here and enjoy the silence.

Yeah, let.

Let the smell, the burning, you know, that I, I don't know.

I think it's, you know, a lot of basic things.

Eye contact.

Right.

Really trying to visually connect with who you're talking to.

To your point, listening.

Like, there's a whole bunch of different aspects that fall into it too.

I think, you know what, we're going.

To talk about that in a second.

But, like, it wasn't a fair question.

No, I know.

And I just kept talking.

I saw you just sitting there.

I'm like, you're just gonna let me go?

Yeah, I'm gonna let you go.

So we have a mouth and two ears.

Basic tools of communication.

That's it.

That's.

And we just need to somehow use.

Them effectively and use one and then the other, not both at the same time.

Yes.

Case in point, the listening to respond.

We don't need to do that.

How do the words we choose affect communication?

Well, I think there's probably more than just the words.

I think that the tone, the.

Every time you ask me these questions, I try and think about your line of work and.

Yes, yes, the unparalleled importance of these things are different with jobs.

I.

You know what?

I will, I will tell you this, and, and it doesn't help me a bit, but I choose my words very, very carefully.

And if.

And if this makes any Sense.

The words that I'm using are exactly what I mean.

So don't read anything more into.

But the English language doesn't allow that to happen because I say one thing and there can or could be more than one meaning to that.

But that's, that's the starting point for sure.

Because if I say no, that's not what I said and you paraphrase it in another way, that has a totally different meaning.

That's, that's what happens really.

I'm thinking back to our times with coaching youth football and trying to communicate messages or, or certain plays.

9, 10, 11, 12 year olds.

And sometimes they hit it, sometimes just they were out to lunch.

But going through anything where you're coaching, mentoring, teaching that you get to refine.

Your craft of communication, it helps any, any, any opportunity.

And we talk a little bit about non verbal communication and I remember talking about my old job.

There used to be the belief that if you were looking up one way, you're using one side of your brain or the other and depending on how you kind of carried yourself, I could tell whether you were looking upper left.

Lookers or hires and that sort of thing.

That kind of thing.

Truth be told, not the case.

No, I heard that same thing.

Are they.

No, no.

Interesting.

But, but for years we believed that was the case.

So I'm, I'm sitting there talking to someone and at least from what I've been taught this person's lying to.

That's fair.

That's what you know.

That's what I know.

But here, here's, here's the kind of kicker to it is that we all have a baseline.

So your non verbal communication is not going to be the same as anybody else.

It's no different than a fingerprint for.

So you have to be very careful if you're going to go down the road and kind of read non verbal communication.

And really in my mind what that means is that you have to kind of use the spoken word a bit to figure out what's their non verbal about because it might be something as.

Hey, you seem a little tense right now.

Just by the way you're, you're holding yourself.

Is everything okay?

Yeah.

And kind of going down that road.

Yeah.

It was easy to find my wife's non verbal when the remote got thrown at me.

And so I was just.

You learn quick.

Yeah, for sure.

That, that, that doesn't mean that the non verbal communication gets thrown out the window because you've already talked about the fact that if I have an open posture that, that, okay, he's going to listen to me and it's okay to go down that road.

Contrary to that, like, if, like, you can tell that, like, let's say that the person is really, really upset, you might want to tread lightly as you're communicating with this individual and trying to get them relaxed before you kind of get to the heart of the matter.

Yeah.

And at the same time, too, you can.

During said conversation, if you're having a great conversation, that person is open, and then halfway through after something you said, they've crossed their arms and they got a frown on their face.

You can pick up something was either not interpreted or it set them so.

Yeah.

And I'm.

And again, I often use these words when I'm working with someone.

What are you thinking?

Getting back to that reading of the minds, because I don't read minds very well.

I said I used to do really well at it, but they kept hearing the page before I was done.

So that, that simple question, it's been gold for me.

What are you thinking right now?

Because if I ask you what you're thinking and it's not the same as me, it gives me an opportunity, first of all to understand what you're saying, but I can also share what I'm thinking.

So you're going o.

Okay.

There might be something that, let's say if we're trying to do a job together, something better might come out of that.

I like that.

I'm going to add that to my toolbox because it does, to your point, provide clarity of how that person's receiving information.

So I like it.

I learned it I don't know how many years, well over 20 years ago, Guy I'd never worked with before, and Guy, who's a wealth of knowledge, excellent investigator, and you're trying to learn it.

And I'm thinking, how can I tap into this guy's mind?

Simple.

What do you think?

And I've used it for.

I don't know.

And even from a clarity and communication point of view.

Yeah, like what are you thinking?

Yeah, I like it.

As opposed to what were you thinking?

Dissat delivered.

Well, unfortunately.

There's that music again.

Mad Dog.

Well, thanks for communicating that to me.

Appreciate it.

I hope you understand that.

I do.

I do.

Thank you.

Communication will always be a challenge, but we can take steps to develop this skill.

Be clear and concise.

Getting back to what I was saying, choosing those words at least help you make sure that there's a clear understanding starting point.

I will say yes, Prepare ahead of.

Time for your communication.

I am a big bullet point guy.

I just make lots of headliners of stuff that I want to talk about and then it free flows after that but allows you to check kind of a box to ensure that key points are delivered.

And as far as I can see that like it doesn't matter whether you're at work, at home.

I mean this works really, really well.

If you have something important, say you want to make sure.

Unless you can really put those thoughts in your head and keep them, keep them together.

That's a hard thing.

It is challenging.

Especially if there's a smidge of emotion that runs into it all that goes out the door.

Oh, a smidge of.

That's not all the smidge.

But be mindful.

I don't say be mindful of non verbal communication because like I said, you can't absolutely read it, but I just call it a clue.

So hey, the non verbal is telling me something but I'm not quite sure what it is.

So I might have to actually use a spoken word to figure that out.

You already said it.

Watch your time.

No, don't you take that.

Practice active listening.

Easy said and done.

Practice, practice.

Because you're right, it's.

It's not something.

Do you remember mom and dad said, hey, while you're having those conversations, you have to practice active listening.

I didn't even know what that was until active listening.

Do I gotta run somewhere?

Like what does that mean?

Build your emotional account intelligently.

We didn't speak to too much bloodhound.

We're really talking about is not being afraid to share your feelings or showing empathy to the other individuals feelings.

I think it helps in the conversation.

It shows that you can relate to what they're saying.

And with that understanding and as we.

Get to know each other better in our relationships, we'll come up with our own communication strategies that's going to work well for us.

And I guess in your case it was, hey, let's go for a drive.

It's going to go for a little drive.

Even to this day you can tell they blush if I say that because they're like oh no, the flashback.

But they're bigger than I am.

Essie, any other thoughts on that mad dog?

No, this is.

This one could go on.

And I can honestly say that, you know, my wife has assisted me in my communication and listening over the years.

So I'm very thankful to have her in my corner because for as much as we figure we can do it ourselves.

If you don't have the skill set, you kind of got to rely or learn.

For sure.

For sure.

So remember to take advantage of the moment.

Moment before the moment takes advantage of you.

To learn more about Ewalkabout, please visit us at ewalkabout.

Cat.