Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (00:01.15)
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Coming Out and Beyond. I am so excited to introduce you to someone today. Five weeks before her wedding in 2022, folk rock singer, songwriter and guitarist, Danni Hoshino.
Danni (00:17.772)
Hoshino, yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (00:19.028)
Okay. Five weeks before her wedding in 2022, folk rock singer songwriter and guitarist, Danni Hoshino realized she was trans. Soon after coming out, her old life unraveled. In its unwinding, Hoshino wove together the life she was always meant to live. Releasing under the artist's name, Light Bird, which symbolizes the new version of herself stepping into the light, sharing her perspective through music.
feels vital at a time when the trans community is being villainized and attacked. After coming out, Hoshino moved from the Boston suburbs to Brooklyn and went on to create her debut album, See Her, which explores the challenges and found beauty that arose in this new phase of life. The album's lead single, Williamsburg Bridge, is an ode to a tradition for all New Yorkers, crying on public transit.
As described by Atwood Magazine, Williamsburg Bridge sets the emotional tone for an era rooted in self-recognition, loss, and the quiet courage it takes to live honestly. The album's second single, All Right, will be released on March 31st in honor of the Trans Day of Visibility, and See Her is set to release in early June. Dani, welcome to the show.
Danni (01:41.794)
Thank you so much for having me. Very happy to be here.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (01:44.914)
Yeah, I'm very excited to have you. I think your album really will speak to anybody that is going through a major life transition. And so many of what you share in the music is very similar or very... For people who are going through a major life change from transitioning from one identity to another or...
maybe saying, incorporating the identity they've always have into their lives. know, having words and having someone name it in music that way is really beautiful. And your album is lovely. So I really want to thank you for that.
Danni (02:28.5)
that means so much. Yeah, that was the hope, you know, in writing and writing some of it. mean, some of it is just personal catharsis. But I think this phase of my artist's life has been different than what it was pre-transition because it feels more like there's an external purpose for it in addition to like the personal, yeah, like set.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (02:29.683)
I hate it.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (02:51.07)
think there's probably, know, there's a probably like what I've known as like as a writer, as I write, that my voice becomes more and more authentic as I keep accepting parts of myself. And I'm a huge believer in story sharing and storytelling because in when we do that, like when you do that with your music, you end up someone else will always see themselves in that music because it's called shared common humanity, you know, as common humans.
You know, parts of our stories will always touch other people's stories. And so I think that's really beautiful when people talk about the pain of transition and the beauty of transition. Because other people who are going through it can say, that line right there, that's me. You know, that's me. That's who I am. So thank you. So I start this podcast by saying, tell me your story. So I would love to hear your story, Danni
Danni (03:37.346)
Yeah.
Danni (03:49.546)
Absolutely. Well, yeah, I as mentioned in the bio that you've already read, the obvious place to me to start the story is, yeah, five weeks before my wedding was supposed to happen. I had been with this person for four years and we were getting ready to have this joyous occasion at our house and finishing up all the planning. there had been a number of things that had been building for a while.
not the beginning of the story, but a good starting place. Over the summer, think, especially leading up to a wedding, there's just so much, so many things that are very specifically like gendered. And certainly in the case of what was presumably to be a cis hetero wedding, like very traditional. And I think those things began to like chafe at me more and more as the summer went on before the wedding was supposed to happen in September.
I was having a really hard time imagining myself at the wedding. My mom kept asking me, have you gotten a suit yet? And I would be like, no, no, not yet. And then I would go back to my computer and secretly be searching men's wedding dress in my Google search field because I just felt like there's gotta be something that's gonna feel right for whatever these emotions are that are starting to bubble to the surface.
there were no results for that because there aren't really a lot of men's wedding dresses out there, it turns out. But yeah, so back to that moment five weeks before, I think I was just like lying in bed next to my then fiance. And I had been very vocal about all of the things I had been feeling out loud and in real time with her. So she was kind of along for the, yeah, this journey of discovery. But up until that moment, despite
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (05:39.434)
shoes you wear. Yeah.
Danni (05:44.716)
some of the obvious cues, I really hadn't considered gender as part of it. There had been a period of time where I had thought about, is part of my sexuality playing into this? And then I thought, okay, maybe I need to try drag to express something or maybe I'm a cross dresser. Trying to fit these other things that I think gender just was never on my radar, partially just because at the time I grew up, that wasn't something that I didn't realize was an option.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (06:03.37)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (06:12.65)
It was not. Yeah, it was not. No. May I ask how old you are, Okay. So I have three kids in their thirties and I'm just going to say that it wasn't. know, unless you lived on the real fringes, normal American life being raised when you were raised, that just wasn't something we talked about.
Danni (06:14.593)
But also, what's that? No. No, and that, I'm 36.
Danni (06:39.051)
No, it was a, yeah, it was the butt of a joke in sitcoms and that was about my only exposure. And then as I grew up and into my twenties and trans people became, started becoming more visible and I started to have trans people in my social circles a little bit. think certainly that awareness and like, and like understanding and empathy built, but especially I don't think I knew any trans femme people. So I didn't really have a real life example of like what a trans woman would look like and like.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (06:42.281)
Okay.
Danni (07:07.383)
to maybe see some of that in myself. But yeah, I think there was also on some level, I just didn't feel like special enough or worthy enough to like get to be trans. Because I think part of myself innately knew that like, that would be something that would be like so exciting to discover. And I didn't think that that would like, but I just not even I never asked the question. I never said like, I wonder if I'm trans. No, no, I don't think so. You know, I think a lot of people do have earlier in life experiences where they feel that very
very acutely or like have that understanding. And I just never really did until this moment at 32 years old. just like kind of looking at all the things I had been feeling and just like kind of had that Occam's razor moment of like, well, I'm trying to like get mental gymnastics my way to understanding this. But if I was just trans, it might, you this would be a lot simpler. And I said that out loud. I said like, what if I'm just trans? And I had this huge like,
very visceral physical reaction to that, just saying those words out loud. Like a lot of repressed emotions came to the surface and I felt like really disoriented and just like hit over the head with that. Like I think being like put out there into the world or even though at the time the world was just me and my fiance and our two dogs, but and I was a little stoned to be fair, but I think I just felt this little moment of kindness and like
kind of like let myself ask that really vulnerable question. And then I just knew. I like turned, I turned to her and was just like, God, something just happened. And like, I just knew.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (08:45.141)
.
I understand that because it took me a long time to come out. And I was 52 when I came out. And it took me 10 years. And I'm also somebody, unlike you, I was sort of aware of my sexuality in my life, but I always would put it to the side and just say, I can't examine this. And that moment that for the third time,
my therapist in a session said to me, what are you waiting for, Anne-Marie And I remember that moment. It was a visceral reaction where I said, yeah, because I had to untangle a very complicated life and saying I'm gay. it was like almost, I compare it, Danni to like an end of life experience where you all of a sudden you start seeing things in your head.
of all the times where things didn't make sense. It was like almost like a review of my life in like 15 seconds. And then when I said it out loud for the third and final time, that's when I knew that it was never gonna go away again. And so I hear you because saying that out loud, I think I'm trans. I understand that moment because, and like how you'll never forget that moment because you literally, I don't know if you noticed that.
Danni (09:50.476)
Yes.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (10:11.381)
but what you did is you turned your head and you looked at somebody that wasn't there. And so obviously you were on that side of the bed and you looked over and said, I'm trans. Like it was a very physical reaction for you. wow. And so first of all, brave thing, brave thing to do. And so what started to unravel?
Danni (10:14.465)
Yeah. Yeah.
Danni (10:24.556)
Yes.
Danni (10:35.821)
Um, well, immediately, I think, like, I think I was like, need to go, need to go downstairs and be alone for a little bit. I started Googling a couple of things. Like first, think first thing I searched was how do you know if you're trans? And then I think the second thing was, are you allowed to be trans and a lesbian? Because I was like, I think that is another thing that probably kind of like threw me off the trail for a while before this, is that like, was like, but I, I love women and like, if you're allowed to like be born a man.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (10:42.272)
.
Danni (11:05.119)
And then you get to just transition and be a lesbian. That feels like cheating, because everyone would do that. Why would? Because it was so obvious to me that that's the ultimate existence. you get to be a woman and be with women? All the men would do that then. And then I realized, that's the implicit assumption is the transness. That's the part of me that I've just never been able to even step back and see, because it was so innate and just obvious.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (11:12.427)
you
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (11:34.25)
Well, yeah. And no, most men do not want to give up their male privilege, Danni Yeah. So yeah, like, yes. And so, yes, if you're somebody who's new to all this, gender and sexuality and who you want to, gender is who you are and sexuality is who you want to be with. And you can be a trans woman and love to be with women. I have a lot of, my two trans women friends here in Nashville also date women too. So they like to be with women. Yeah.
Danni (11:35.629)
Yeah, yeah, it turns out.
Danni (11:55.724)
Yeah.
Danni (12:01.558)
Okay.
Yes. Yeah. And since that time, I would say my, my sexuality has continued to evolve a little bit. I'm dating a trans man currently. And so there's, and I have dated lots of different people along the gender spectrum. So that has evolved, but that was my first, think from, being a young child, think that identity and idea of like what a lesbian was in my understanding growing up in the nineties and two thousands, like
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (12:05.067)
.
Danni (12:30.549)
I had that really enshrined in my head as something that I identified with and loved the idea of. So I don't actually quite know where I, I think on your questionnaire I wrote queer because I'm still kind of figuring out what it all means exactly, but I do definitely identify with the lesbian label and love the lesbian community and being part of it. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (12:36.713)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (12:52.757)
Well, and I like queer because it sort of catches everything, especially for when you're new, you know, in your baby gay I actually use queer a lot too. I do believe that when people come out, no matter like what their age is, so I came out in 2016, no matter what your age is, you're sort of like, that's your graduating class. So your ethos, the things you think about, the things you believe in.
Danni (12:59.436)
Yeah.
.
Danni (13:17.847)
Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (13:20.907)
are really tied. So even though I'm older, I still identify, you know, more with the time that I came out. And so I'm really comfortable with the terms queer. Well, some people of my generation are not as comfortable with it because it was used slur when they were younger. But I like queer because it's sort of like, I am queer, but I'm also a lesbian. So I understand that. So let's talk a little bit about the untangling. I mean, so your
Danni (13:36.076)
Right.
Danni (13:41.761)
Yeah, yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (13:50.54)
your partner did you guys stay together for a while or did you decide to?
Danni (13:54.092)
We were together for a little while, sorry to interrupt. We were together for a little while after that. But I think, yeah, I think a big part of the unraveling was related to the fact that I, sorry, I'm just gonna turn off my heater because the sound is gonna get a little.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (14:10.9)
Yeah, it did come on. Yeah.
Danni (14:37.261)
Okay, sorry, can you ask, give me the question again?
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (14:42.614)
So you turned to your partner and your fiance and said, think I'm trans. You did your Googling. And so what happened next?
Danni (14:51.915)
Yeah, so I think a big part of how things kind of played out after that was the fact that for me, I'm a fast processor. And so like, I realized that this was the case, know, doubts persisted for the weeks that came moments where I like started to panic, like, am I actually this thing that I'm saying that I am? But nonetheless, like, I think I very deeply knew this is this is true. And I
and the type of person that's like, well, once I knew that was true, there was no like, there was no going back or there was no waiting period or like, kind of like, okay, now let's figure out what we're going to do. It was like, okay, I'm shaving my legs. The next day I went to Target and just got some random clothes and a couple pieces of makeup at CVS. And it was just like, that's it. I'm a girl now, like as of today. And you know, I...
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (15:42.188)
. .
Danni (15:47.39)
she, you know, my, my fiance at the time had been in the room. So she obviously knew I came out to my family a few days later. I came out to my work two weeks later. So like, to me, it was like, I'm just, I just have to be this person that like immediately unapologetically fully. And like, I'm going to need the people around me either need to like get on board or not. And that was, I think the way that I needed to do it. But I also think it made it.
like a rough ride for the people around me because as much as I wanted them to be able to just like make this sudden switch with me and not have that change the way that they wanted to interact with me or like, you know, just wanted them to kind of like, you know, transition with me. I think that was not a realistic expectation.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (16:39.564)
Well, yeah, I can understand. Yeah, as somebody who works with people who are coming out all the time, I was thinking that when you were talking about it, people, the thing is, is when you come out, even if you subconsciously, I mean, if you did not even consciously know you were trans, for a long time, you subconsciously knew you were trans. And so when we come out,
people have to catch up. You know, they can't, they cannot do it all at once. Some people can, but most people are like, wait a minute. And I'm sure, for like your fiance and your mom and your family and stuff like that, it took them a while.
Danni (17:26.795)
Yeah, it did. I think my fiance, you know, at the time, to be clear, like she was incredibly supportive of me wanting to transition and, you know, happy for me in that regard. But I think what I started to realize, you know, whereas I assumed like, this is so great. We can be lesbians together. It's going be awesome. That's like those things were. You know, needing quite a bit more processing time for her and.
you know, the implications for her sexuality as someone who had identified as mostly straight till then. you know, there was a lot, it was a lot of change. And I think there, there just became tension in my life with all of my kind of foundational relationships where I felt very like, I need to do this fully at my pace. And that means like, I'm, I am now this person and I don't have the ability to like,
I can't be surrounding myself with anyone that isn't ready to just celebrate this with me. And that's sort of how I went about it. And that did like create issues with those, those close relationships. Um, me and my fiance, you know, kind of decided to like postpone the wedding. And then we decided to like, kind of like, well, let's just see how the two of us are even going to be. And then ended up, um, I decided to, to end the relationship a few months later, because I think I felt.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (18:24.951)
. .
Danni (18:50.177)
this tension and this pull of like, well, I can either like stay a little bit, you know, take a beat, slow down and really try and like save the relationship or I can lean fully into my transition and this person that I feel I urgently need to be. And I think that I just quickly identified like, I have to do this for myself. And I felt like I need to be a little selfish right now at this point. And I had to keep choosing that over and over again, as I navigated those first
you know, say six months because there was a lot of undoing. we owned a house together and all these things. so like logistics and all the stuff. and I was just like, if I don't, if I don't just prioritize my feelings, worry about, taking care of myself and, and worry a little less about taking care of other people through this change. I don't know if I'm to make it through. So that's what I did. And I think it in, in retrospect, like.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (19:44.84)
. .
Danni (19:49.547)
Yeah, was a tough change for the people around me. But I don't necessarily feel sorry about that now. think when it's something that's like, all I'm telling you is something I've discovered about myself. I haven't made a new choice or I just realized this thing. think I felt, I don't know, I just had to keep moving forward with it.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (20:10.965)
Well, yeah, and it's also, you know, like in regards to your relationship with your fiance, there's a lot there. It's also not just your story because she had already, she had already, she had, previously identified as mostly straight and, you know, to go from being mostly straight to being in a lesbian relationship, if that's not her sexuality, that's not gonna work.
Danni (20:39.371)
Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (20:39.821)
You know, I do see some couples, especially older couples do that transition where, know, the the one of the spouses comes out as trans female, trans male, and they they do make the transition. But in it, it's really hard to do. And I know some people that like they're still married to their trans female spouse, but they're not gay. And, you know, and it's just it's it's hard. It's very hard to make that transition as a couple.
Danni (21:01.002)
Right. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (21:08.533)
And so a lot of times the relationships dissolve because people can't make that transition. And sometimes too, I believe that in making that transition, both of you give something up. So for example, if you guys had ended up being together, she may never have transitioned to being a lesbian. And so you're a lesbian in a relationship with somebody who's not a lesbian. Yeah. So.
Danni (21:32.074)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (21:38.903)
How did this affect your music life? And how did that, you know, you were already a musician when this happened. So talk about all of that and how did that affect your career and your music?
Danni (21:54.125)
So I think when you, for me having like access this really deep part of myself and sort of answering this very foundational question, I found it suddenly easier to like answer a bunch of other questions that I think had continued to, you know, be present through my twenties and now my early thirties at the time. I think I finally felt like, I can access and understand the difference between what I want to do and what I think I'm supposed to do.
I played in a folk rock band called The Novel Ideas in my 20s. We were always a small band, but we had toured around and had a lot of fun, and that band eventually broke up. But I think as I was getting closer to 30, I was thinking, well, I can keep playing music, but I'm going to have to get serious about looking for a partner and getting married and maybe having a family and having a career that's going to be able to support a family and buy a house and all these things. And not that none of those things are still appealing or
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (22:24.461)
.
Danni (22:54.794)
you know, the stuff that I feel disconnected from any of those dreams, although for the most part, not exactly how I'm looking to live my life anymore. I think I realized, you know what, I've always wanted to just kind of like throw caution to the wind and just continue to like try and be an artist, like whatever that entails. And knowing what the music industry is like, and especially for a small artist, knowing that that means like, if I want to like pour my, really like make this my
kind of the focus of all my life energy. And that means having a very different lifestyle than like living in a nice house in the suburbs. And so very inquiry, very quick succession. I had come out the relationship. We were ending our relationship. I quit my like cushy nine to five remote work job and video production that I had been doing. We decided to sell the house. I decided to move to New York and I was like, I just want to, I just want to make music again.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (23:32.737)
Yeah
Danni (23:53.429)
I had been sort of trying to get a little solo thing going on after my band broke up, but it had never really taken because I think, especially when it was no longer me in a band, when it was just me, I had a really hard time before realizing that I identify as a woman, putting myself out there, taking, you know, putting press photos out, looking in a way that I didn't want to look and just like couldn't celebrate myself as a solo artist. And then suddenly I was like, I want to like...
post selfies of myself every day suddenly and like everything is completely changed. So there was that aspect of it that I think felt like, I'm really excited to like, yeah, celebrate myself and try and be making art out in the world again. But I think the biggest thing that changed was, I alluded to it earlier, but I think I suddenly felt like there is actual like, you know, before I really lacked, I think a genuine perspective in my songwriting.
I just didn't feel like I had a voice that was vital or important or beyond just like I like writing songs and performing. And suddenly I felt like, whatever level of success I go on to find, even if I always remain a small artist, putting out music and singing songs for people can really feel, or really suddenly felt like it could be important. It could be meaningful to like, you never know who's listening and what it might mean to them.
I think that has been the thing that I come back to even in times when I'm, if I'm having, you know, I'm stuck in the writing process or I'm just feeling like a little discouraged about the progress that I'm making with this new project or when it's going really well, I think I come back to that and just like, that's been a huge difference between my artist life pre-transition and post-transition is I feel like I'm, it's good for the world to just keep putting this out there.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (25:44.281)
Well, you found your voice. That's what happened. I understand that because I found my voice when I came out too. It was always there and it was always waiting to be heard. I just had to align who I was with that voice. And it took a long time to align myself with that voice. And it sounds like for you,
Danni (25:46.676)
Yeah. Yeah.
Danni (26:09.963)
Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (26:13.768)
You always want... I'm curious, how did you get into music? Did you go to school for music when you were in college age and stuff like that?
Danni (26:24.19)
No, I mean, I started playing guitar in middle school and I think all my friends were doing it and my brother was doing it. So it seemed like the cool thing to do. And it really like, I think it really satisfied a couple of things, but especially like, I think the guitar became like a fidget toy. Just like, I just found myself always holding it and noodling on it. And my mom would be trying to talk to me about something and I would just be playing the guitar like absentmindedly. And she'd be like, put the guitar down.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (26:33.314)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (26:42.904)
Mm-hmm.
Danni (26:53.204)
and listen to what I'm telling you. So that really had sticking power just because I always was drawn to it. But then in high school, I think I got really into classic rock and especially my dad's influence. A lot of singer songwriters from the 70s era, that got in my head and just became this end all, be all dream of getting to be a performing musician just seemed really like the...
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (27:20.782)
curious who's the 70s and 80s 70s and 80s people.
Danni (27:25.911)
Biggest one is probably the Allman Brothers, but Jackson Brown is another really big one. I remember exactly where I was driving down a street in Massachusetts with my dad when These Days by Jackson Brown played. And I was like, what is this? And why are you only showing it to me now? Yeah, Joni Mitchell, like that. And specifically the sound, not just the artists themselves, but the sound of 70s recording.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (27:31.758)
Bye bye.
Danni (27:54.059)
Just like, to me, it's just like, it's just like right in the sweet spot between like the advance of like fidelity and recorded music and like the like, you know, pre like kind of almost too perfect nature of like, of later digital recordings. just like, it just like sounds right to me in my head.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (28:12.591)
understand what you're saying. I'm at Alman Brothers, Jackson Brown, Joni Mitchell, all of those. It's a definite, like Alman Brothers, the Alman Brothers have a definitely significant sound. When you hear it come on, you know it's them. You know? Yeah. And for me, that's standing around a bear keg. Yeah. So tell me about your album that you have recorded. See her.
Danni (28:27.508)
Yeah, exactly. Yes.
Danni (28:31.838)
Ha ha ha, yeah. Yes, exactly right.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (28:41.423)
and how does it speak to your transition and your experiences? But also I would love for you to talk about, if possible, how would it speak to other people that are going through such a time of transition in their life?
Danni (28:56.428)
Yeah, so then, yeah, the new album is called See Her. That's the title track. It's also the first song that I wrote after I came out. There are songs on the album that I had begun. It ranges between some songs that were sort of shortly before coming out and then songs that happened afterwards. And I think that's sort of the thesis of the album is just sort of examining this whole period of my life.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (29:00.505)
.
Danni (29:25.138)
and the change that came about and the journey for more understanding and just sort of like envisioning a more beautiful life and the like really great things that come with that discovery and the loss and grief that comes with it as well because of that change and things that are lost along the way. But yeah, think, sorry, go ahead.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (29:36.207)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (29:43.118)
.
. think, no, I was thinking about specifically, you you had the white boy dreams. You know what I mean? Like the house in the suburbs and all those things like that. And although you consciously said, is not who I am and what I want, there is a loss to that.
Danni (29:55.756)
No.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (30:11.169)
And I don't think people understand like when we accept ourselves for who we were created to be by the universe, that we have been conditioned to believe in certain things. So being conditioned, you know, the house and the suburbs kind of thing and, you know, all that stuff, like even though we're okay letting go of it, there's still a loss and a grief to that.
Danni (30:37.898)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I sing about that in my in the first single that came out a couple months ago, Williamsburg Bridge. I sing about, you know, daydreaming once again about the love I left in a Boston suburb, because like, that wasn't the life that I was supposed to lead forever. But it was the life I led at that time. And it was it wasn't a bad life. For me, I don't think it was like a push away from this wasn't this I was so unhappy and now
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (30:39.375)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (30:59.954)
Right.
Danni (31:05.718)
So I'm like getting away from that. It was a pull towards, I see like a more complete, you know, genuine version of myself and I'm going after it. And, you know, I'm so grateful for that moment of realization and like, I'm also happy that it happened shortly before the wedding and not shortly after the wedding, lots of things like that.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (31:15.245)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (31:25.793)
Well, I think about that. I'm like, thank goodness, Danni, that you realized before, because it becomes much more complicated to get divorced and all that. And also being brave enough to name it, because a lot of times people just like they do think of those things and then they push it right back down. And you could have said, shit, I'm getting married. I'm just going to forget about this. And we're going to go do that.
Danni (31:33.952)
Yes.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (31:53.625)
and then you could have had children and it could have been more complicated. And so I want to just honor how brave that step was for you and good for you because
unintentionally it would have involved much more people, your decision if you had been married and all those things like that and had had babies and stuff. So good for you for doing it and having the clarity of mind in that moment to say, my God, this is it. This is, I have to figure this out. So with your album, See Her, what is that song?
Danni (32:22.272)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (32:32.044)
And that's the name of the album and that's the song that's going to be released today on Trans Day of Visibility.
Danni (32:37.288)
No, so the song that's being released is alright, actually. That's okay. All good.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (32:39.832)
All right, I'm sorry, my bad. Yeah. So, so talk a little bit about both those songs.
Danni (32:46.41)
Yeah, see her, and I think this relates to what I was just saying is it kind of examines, I mean, it's about discovering, you know, obviously my gender and it sings very specifically about kind of different moments through my youth and into my adulthood. I sort of picked moments based around the three like long-term monogamous relationships I had been in up until the point that I...
my egg cracked and I realized I was trans. And sort of, think it checks in on each of those phases of life and kind of like where I was at. maybe those weren't the right times to realize what was happening and why in this moment it was the right time. But I think it also, in looking back, I try to, part of me grieves for a younger version of myself that like couldn't have what I have now, but I also try to like really
honor that version of myself too and like be compassionate and be like, you know, that's, that's what I needed at that time, I guess. And that's what I was, you know, I was doing my best with what information I had.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (33:55.685)
Well, that's the thing is that when you transition at any time in your life, there is regret for things you didn't get to have. But this is the thing with regret is that it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. It is something to make us reflect, but.
If we spend our life in regret, I wish I had been young and trans in my teens and twenties, or, I wish I had dated a lot of women in my twenties instead of being married and having babies, all those things like that. Yes, you can look back and say, gosh, I wish I had it, but we can't live there because it's a waste of our time and it takes time away from the present moment that we're in that we get to be.
fully expressed human beings.
Danni (34:54.912)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that kind of then like bridges into the single that's coming out today, All Right That one is, really, that one really focuses on my relationship at the time with my fiance. And I actually started writing this song before I came out. I had written the chorus to it and one of the verses. And at that time, I think I was really just thinking about like,
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (35:01.668)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (35:09.328)
Thank
Danni (35:23.38)
the nature of our relationship and how, you know, even all relationships go through hard things, but I think feeling like when you're with the right person or a right person, the hard things don't have to be that hard or as hard. And that was sort of where I was starting from with writing that song and then kind of had set it down. And then...
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (35:30.319)
.
Danni (35:48.328)
After coming out, picked it back up. I had to change a couple of pronouns in the first verse to make it still feel like it was right for me to sing. it sort of became about, you know, recognizing that I had had this beautiful thing, this beautiful relationship for over four years. understanding that it had brought me to this place where this big change was happening and sort of acknowledges the like.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (35:56.922)
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Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (36:14.5)
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Danni (36:18.751)
you know, I think the emotional place that I'm writing from, if not in so many words, is just that like the ending of something isn't a failure or it doesn't make that time wasted or not beautiful or not something like, yeah, we're really, really wonderful that we shared. And it just sort of lives in that, in that bittersweetness of like, you know, I think we, we just can't, can't continue as it is because I've discovered this thing about myself, but
I, yeah, again, I want to like honor it and be so grateful for the type of relationship that let me have this space to figure this thing out about myself, because I don't think I could have done it without her.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (37:01.744)
Well, that's beautiful. And also too, like, just because something ends doesn't mean that it was bad. And I also find that, like, you I always say that sunrises and sunsets look the same for a reason, because we don't know if it's an ending of something or the beginning of something else. I always love the metaphor of the sunset and sunrise, because a lot of times when things are ending, like,
Danni (37:20.843)
.
Danni (37:24.491)
Yeah, that's sweet.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (37:29.776)
That relationship had run its course, but it brought you beautiful things, and I'm sure it brought beautiful things into her life as well. And now it is time for us to go our separate ways. And it's bittersweet. It is very bittersweet when, like I was married for 27 years to my husband, and losing that relationship was very painful and very bittersweet. And now that a decade has gone by,
I have it, it's in a much better place than it has been in a really long time, you know, because it was what it was. I have my four beautiful children because of that. But I'm very glad that it, I'm with my wife now. I wouldn't be able to be with him anymore. And I'm in such a better place because I was able to let that relationship go. And he is actually in a better place because he's with a straight girl now.
you know, and who wants to be with him and is very straight and I never was straight. And so it was really sometimes really challenging and neither of us knew why. I'm not taking on all the responsibility, but what I'm saying is that some of my, as a queer woman, as a lesbian woman married to a man, trying to connect with him in a way that I need to connect with someone was impossible.
Danni (38:26.613)
Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (38:55.215)
And I remember when we were married, he said, Emory, if you want that, you need to be married to a woman. So I am curious, Danni, did you have a coming out song?
Danni (38:59.243)
Hahaha
Danni (39:11.261)
Okay, yeah, wait, what can you what does that mean exactly?
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (39:16.421)
So Coming Out Song is a song that when you're going through all this time of transition and change that just sort of carries you through.
Danni (39:25.097)
Yeah, I think I had kind of two songs. I think the one that I wrote down in preparation for this conversation was Nick of Time by Bonnie Raitt. It was actually at the time Lake Street Dive had released a collection of covers and one of them was Nick of Time. And that one just like, something about it just hit me at that moment. I mean, that song definitely talks of, what's that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it felt.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (39:32.389)
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Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (39:47.087)
It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense that that song is your song. Yeah.
Danni (39:55.158)
you know, that one is a little bit more about like family building and getting older and looking at, you know, kind of like reflecting, you know, your parents getting older too and those kinds of things. But I think that phrase, the nick of time is really how it felt. Not that it like, you know, of course to me in my experience, like 32 felt like late in the game, but I'm also so grateful that it was quite early in the game in so many respects, because, you know, as we've talked about, any time is not too late.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (40:19.313)
.
Danni (40:24.739)
but nonetheless, that's, that was sort of the prevailing feeling of like, yeah. Like, like I just figured, I figured it out just in time for, you know, to live this, this life like I'm living. And then the other song, is I know a place by Muna, because that's another, like, just that one is much more explicitly, you know, like someone who has come out and has like,
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (40:24.901)
Right, right.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (40:37.2)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (40:41.893)
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Danni (40:52.115)
understood their queerness like singing to somebody who's just kind of figuring it out. yeah, also it's just a bop, but yeah, it's a beautiful song too.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (40:57.104)
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Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (41:02.437)
I like Silky Swan by Muna. I think that's really pretty. My wife sent that to me and I didn't listen to it because, you know, we were married. So like a month or two later, I listened to it and I was like, this is really a nice.
Danni (41:11.455)
Hahaha
Danni (41:17.373)
Yeah. Yeah. Both of those songs are very like that Lake Street dive version of of Nick of Time and then Muna's were very dancey too. And something I found in those early months is I just kind of found myself dancing a lot in my apartment or in my house in this really spontaneous way that felt like so, so new and different from how I would have like even in private moments how I would have been.
Like before giving this to myself? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (41:46.801)
It was joy. It was joy. Yeah, it was joy. Like, my God, I found myself, you know? my goodness. A Booker movie that might have changed your perspective a little.
Danni (41:53.129)
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Danni (42:02.283)
I think of My Neighbor Totoro, the Studio Ghibli film, mostly because, well, I saw it when I was very young at a friend's house and had this prevailing memory of it and then didn't see it again for many years until my adulthood. But I think that film is one of my favorites because the kind of like...
The core conflict of it, like the stakes at play are like quite small. There's no like big threat or like world ending thing or anything like that. It's just like a little girl that's like trying to like get to go visit her mom in the hospital. And I think I come back to that to kind of remind myself that like, I don't know, these little moments in our lives are equally important to the really big ones.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (42:53.368)
. . How would you describe your life today?
Danni (42:59.871)
vibrant and just, yeah, like very, very eclectic and every day it feels like I don't really know exactly how it will unfold, but yeah, I'm living my best little queer life running around Brooklyn and like, not, yes it is, and not infrequently I kind of like look around and I'm just like, how did I, what, how am I here? You know, this is only,
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (43:01.042)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (43:17.134)
I you
Danni (43:28.169)
I'm like three and a half years removed from that, moment we've been talking about when I realized I was trans. And in some ways that feels like a long time, but it's, it's not really been that long, but like the, the rate of experience that I've had since then has been just like nothing else in my life. so it feels very rich and full, you know, along with many challenges and, and hard times too, but in general, it's been really beautiful.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (43:46.098)
Yeah.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (43:51.559)
think that feeling of how did I get here, it takes like six or seven years to get to the point of where you're just so like, it's just your normal anymore now and you don't really think about that. But I'll tell you, there are still some times I wake up in the morning and I'm sleeping next to my wife and she's naked and I'm how did I get here? Joyfully here.
Danni (44:16.007)
Yeah
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (44:21.678)
And I also want to say that, you know, what you said reminded me of something is like a lot of times for people who've been closeted for a long time, where no matter how they're closeted, when people come out, oftentimes their life before felt much more muted. And then when you come out, I always say it's like a technicolor, like all of a sudden things that were muted become much more vibrant.
And I really identify with, I love the work I do now. I was an ordained minister before, and now I'm doing this work and I don't know what my day is gonna bring. And I have like, look what I got to do this morning. I got to get up, I got to introduce the world to this exciting new artist. I got to talk to you about transition and like, how lucky am I? Like to be able to do this. And that's one of the things I think when we embrace our authenticity, no matter what it is.
Danni (45:03.669)
.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (45:20.598)
is the, that's the golden key. You know, that's the golden key to happiness. So, Danni, where can people find your album? Talk about release dates and how can people find you?
Danni (45:36.159)
Yeah, so the album is coming out in early June. The final date is still just being finalized, but it will be out in early June. Marks 30. See Her, See Her is the name of the album. I have one single out already called Williamsburg Bridge and the new single coming out is called Alright. I'm on all the major streaming platforms under Lightbird, my artist name, two words, Lightbird. And then on social media is the various ones at Lightbird Music, which is a good way, I think, until
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (45:43.93)
and it's called Her.
.
Danni (46:05.605)
album drops to keep up to date with what's going on. But yeah, that's mainly it.
Anne-Marie Zanzal (She/Her) (46:11.996)
Well, thank you so much. And thank you so much for coming out on the show. I'm so excited to release this today and best of luck. hope this album takes off and reaches the people it needs to reach.
Danni (46:25.228)
Thank you, Anne-Marie, and thank you so much for having me. I a lovely time chatting with you.