WEBVTT

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Music.

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Welcome to Pilates Elephants. I'm here with Laura Saggers. Welcome, Laura.

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Hi, Raph. So good to have you back again. It's been a while. Thank you.

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It has been a while. I think this is the third time on Pilates Elephants,

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but we did a lot of, before podcasting, we did do interviews. We did.

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So there's a handful of those beforehand as well.

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So yeah, it's great to be back. It'd be interesting to look at some of those early ones.

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Oh, I was actually thinking that the other day, that it would be great to go

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back and re-watch that very first interview opening, Rise.

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Yeah. Yeah, it was like the week we opened. Eight years ago, I was on with that.

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Yeah. So I'm not sure if I'd be up for that. I think I'd just be too cringing. Yeah.

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I know. A lot has changed in nine years. Yeah.

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So just an easy one to start. Like how, when you fill out like a visa application

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or some other kind of form, like when it says like occupation,

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like what do you put in the occupation box?

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How do you describe what you did? I put in studio owner.

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Is that a recent thing or when did you start putting that in?

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I think I have for a while, probably, um, maybe two years into, um, Essendon.

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So Bryce Flight is Essendon. um it's funny

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because it depends where I am too sometimes I will just go Pilates instructor

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because it's easier and and but I do when I go um international international

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travel I will put studio owner and I don't know what I just do,

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and and so like what does a typical weekday look like for you.

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A typical weekday um i

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have tried to create a little bit more routine um in the last couple of months

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um and i have tried to put in a little bit more balance with my son as well

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um so yeah it's waking up um i've been exercising in the morning which always helps,

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I wake up around 7.30, so I'm not an early riser.

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I think teaching Pilates is the only time where I've been an early, early morning person.

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And also my son is 15, for anyone who is listening to me speak for the first time.

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So, yeah, anyone with little kids knows that you just get up when you get up.

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And when they're younger, yeah, the early mornings are just a thing.

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So now that he's a bit older and, yeah, teenage, anyone with teenagers will

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understand that they sleep in.

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So it's been nice to kind of, yeah, have a wake-up time that is kind of more set to me these days.

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Yeah, I'm very lucky at both studios that the morning crew who take the 6am

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classes are so consistent and there's enough trainers around that I'm not back up for 6am.

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So, yeah, so 7.30, I do exercise now and I've been mixing it up.

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I've been doing a little bit of yoga for the first time ever,

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which has just been good to kind of have a little bit away from Reforma.

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I've also had an injury that I've been managing and I've found that yoga has

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been kind of really good.

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Um yeah and then breakfast and into

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the full work day and it can look really really different

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um every day is really kind of unique as what happens and which trainer needs

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this and clients and yeah it's I kind of feel like that's where I go into all

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right I'm ready for the day and what's going to happen.

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And so what is your, like, just walk us through a very high level.

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Like what are the component parts of your various businesses and that you run?

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Okay, so I have two Reforma Pilates studios.

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One is coming up to nine years old and I have had that myself.

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And the second one is with my partner, Nathan, and we've been running that for

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one year. So it's just turned one a couple of months ago.

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The first studio has 13 machines and

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we were doing 70

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classes a week and we I'm

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sure we'll talk about this we've dropped it down to around 55

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at the moment and then nor the new

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studio has 18 machines and we

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have gone the other way where we've started with 45

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on the schedule and now we're up to pushing 70

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now with 18 beds so yeah it's

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it's been a whirlwind managing the

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two because they're both very different and at different stages and

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um yeah having a

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business partner in one and being solo

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in the other is also um a new

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challenge um yeah

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so and and you also have a podcast are

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you still do you still do business coaching on the

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side I I put a hold on

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um business coaching when we

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opened North Melbourne I could see it coming from a mile away that I just didn't

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have the time and energy to give to other people while I was trying to channel

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into opening a new studio ourselves um so I haven't for the last 18 months and

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I do miss it I loved I loved doing it but um.

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Yeah, you've only got so much time and energy throughout the day and the two

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studios have kind of taken all right of that at the moment.

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And yeah, I recently launched a podcast called Diary of a Studio Owner and that's

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just kind of my side little passion project at the moment to kind of fill my

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cup in a different way than running a business.

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Yeah. So you opened Rise North Melbourne, your first, sorry,

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Rise Essendon, your first studio almost nine years ago.

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I remember I interviewed you, like you said, like the week you opened or something.

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And like in retrospect now, like that, that was kind of a really good time to open a reformer studio.

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There was literally no competition, you know, and the studio did really phenomenally

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well for a number of years.

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We're now in a different time.

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There's a lot more competition. The market has evolved. You know,

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ClassPass is a thing. Oh, yeah.

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So, you know, so there's a lot that's gone on.

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You know, what did you, and then you opened up Rise North Melbourne with your

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partner Nathan a year ago.

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Like, what did you learn from opening Studio No. 2?

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Okay so studio number two um in this stage of the industry i feel like,

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where we are we're basically in the middle of the city we're right near the

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victoria mark if anyone's familiar with melbourne um it's north melbourne but

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it is very much cbd radius.

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So it's a very densely populated area. There's lots of students,

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lots of transient people, like people, like students who are there for a semester

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or a year or whatever. Yep.

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That's our demographic and it is, yeah, very much student, international students,

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yeah, people coming in for work for the city.

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So I do feel like we have nailed the location and the demographic there with the 18 machines,

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ClassPass has been phenomenal in that business, which was really quite shocking

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to me because I had ClassPass for the first studio and ended up getting rid of it after 12 months.

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I worked out pretty quickly that it just wasn't worthwhile having.

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So after three months of opening North, I'll see you next time.

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That the demographic is all on ClassPass.

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So if you're not on it in an area like that where we can service so many people

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with 18 machines in a class, 18 people in a class, we're kind of missing out.

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So we made the decision to jump on ClassPass and I've gone both studios back

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on and I feel like it's had such an amazing impact for North,

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but for Essendon And it's kind of gone back to square one,

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which is what I learnt the original time when I went under 12 months.

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So, yeah, I'm interested to get your thoughts on Class Pass,

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Raf, because I'm sure you've got, yeah.

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Well, you know, I'm intrigued with what you say about North Melbourne and the

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18 beds making it worthwhile, because basically you're the very first studio

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owner I've ever talked to who, where it's been a positive.

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Yep. And essentially, you know, I view ClassPass in a very negative light.

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I feel like they essentially send you half-price customers.

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And, you know, when, I mean, I know the math of running a Pilates studio very

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well, and you can't afford to drop your price by 50% and still make a profit.

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But, um, so I feel like they're sort of sucking the oxygen out of the,

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out of the business for a lot of, a lot of studios. Oh, a lot. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with you. And I do think that our North Melbourne studio

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is like a needle in the haystack where I,

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I didn't think that we would be having like such a positive experience in that business.

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But ultimately when you do do the maths and if we were filling 18 beds with.

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Customers paying full price all the time yeah

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so that you can do the math that obviously it

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would be even better and that's the goal so yeah

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long term the goal is to convert as

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many class pass people into like paying

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customers to our business direct

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but yeah for the first 12 months of

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running the studio it it really has been

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yeah a positive and it's yeah

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you've made it work because you've changed the unit economics of

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your business by having 18 reformers and therefore you're only paying a single

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wage you're only paying single you know serving of rent for that session and

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if you've got more warm bodies in there even if they're paying you less per

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person it still adds up to a decent way. It still adds up, yeah, precisely.

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So, yeah, but it does not work the same for the other studio and I know there's

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so many business studio owners out there that do feel the stress of what ClassPass

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has put on studios and business owners and trying to just operate your business.

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And so it's sort of like a highly addictive drug for a lot of studio owners.

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It's like, yeah, you know it's bad for you, but it's really hard to stop using. Yeah.

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And it's the fear factor too of going, oh, if I go off it, we're going to then lose those customers.

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And yeah, it's the, it's kind of the lack mentality can kind of.

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Jump in a little bit where you do have to just go make the cut and it's better

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in the long way in the long run and i've got i've got a couple of studio owners

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who've done that and they,

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both weaned it down so they first they put class pass only for certain classes

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then they put only a certain number of spaces for class pass then they allowed

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their members to book like three six twelve months in advance if they had like

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a current membership so that the class

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people get second dibs and then when the

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class people pass people like oh but i want to book further in advance you're

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like well buy a membership you know yeah yeah yeah you

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yeah yeah and then yeah then a

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pretty obviously pretty intensive communication to those people

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about the benefits of of membership and but

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to making those tangible i think the limiting the

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number of spots in which classes class class people can book into and

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then also giving members like a really long book

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ahead window but only for

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members that sort of gives a

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tangible benefit to upgrading to a membership and that's

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i've seen two people successfully to like eliminate class pass from their studios

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and convert not everybody obviously but a reason you know like half or a bit

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more than half of the class pass people to to memberships yeah no that's great

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advice And that's how I did it originally,

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the first time I did it.

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Now you have to do it again. Yeah, now I have to do it again.

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But that's exactly the way to do it. I didn't even realize that at the Essendon

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studio, I already had it set, that class-class people couldn't book 12 hours

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prior to the class time starting, so it had to be well in advance.

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And we do already have it set that there's only a small amount.

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The class has to be full to a certain capacity.

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Once you reach that capacity, there's not even an option for ClassPass people

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to book in. Your members get priority.

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So, there's definitely settings for any kind of way you want to manoeuvre that. Yeah. Yeah.

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So, you know, tell me about that, you know, what you said at the beginning,

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how the classes at Essendon have gone down.

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Now, I mean, 70 is an insane number of classes. Yeah.

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I mean, I typically think of 55 as being the functional.

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You know like the maps if you're running a really busy studio 55 is a good number

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to aim for yeah so say 70 is over the top but but tell me about the the journey

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you know with Essendon because,

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like I said a minute ago you kind of opened up at a

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really opportune time in hindsight like it wasn't obvious at

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the time that that was really good timing but no it was yeah

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so you've had a couple of big franchises open up nearby offering like unlimited

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for cheap cheap as and uh and yeah so what impact has that had on your business

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and and how has that shaken out like how long have they been there and and has

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have you kind of reached some some kind of equilibrium with that,

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okay yes yeah so when i originally opened um hindsight's a great thing but i

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kind of wish that I did just run and open a whole heap of studios because I

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used to think just having one studio in a suburb was like, oh,

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there's already a studio there.

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There's already a studio in Los Angeles. I won't open one. Yeah. Yeah.

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But, yeah, it was kind of the opposite where it was still educating people on

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what Reformer Pilate is. Yeah, yeah.

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Is um but very quickly obviously yeah it's highly addictive and once once people

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kind of step through the door and they experience how good it is it kind of

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sells itself so it was a very good time to open that first studio um,

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like our other podcasts and interviews there's

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been all those challenges along the way so it wasn't

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complete smooth sailing there was so much growth and learning

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and trial and error like in

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any business there's always yeah this

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thing's not working what do we do trial and error until you kind

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of get it right so yeah I'm

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not saying it was like 100% smooth sailing but it

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was on an upward trajectory all the

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way through up until probably our seventh birthday right

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before opening studio along

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that journey like over seven years you can imagine how much the industry has

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changed and there's been so many studios that have opened up during that time

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as well so So my learning process through that was when a new studio does open up.

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It would usually take maybe two months.

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It wouldn't impact the business, but you would kind of notice a kind of little

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drop in attendance, maybe a little decline in sales for a month,

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and then it would kind of just come back like normal.

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So whenever a studio was about to open, I'd kind of just, in the back of my head, like,

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pre-plan and go okay like could have like

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a little decline here you know and then we just

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go back to usual back to usual that's people just being

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curious and going trying to eat the new place and and they

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like you were saying before with intro offers you get an intro offer you do

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two weeks of pilates whatever the intro offer is and then yeah maybe they like

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it better that's fine we've got space for more people to come like it levels

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itself out or they come back and it's same same um so yeah up until um,

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opening North Melbourne, which was March last year,

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where we started to renovate, I decided to change our branding and move the

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booking system at Essendon whilst two major franchises.

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Came to our suburb and opened in that same month.

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So, again, hindsight's a wonderful thing where even saying it out loud now,

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I just laugh because I'm like, what was I thinking?

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This is not the time. Whilst I'm about to open a new studio.

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Move the booking system, change the branding and have two really,

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really big marketing budgets come into the area to spread their intro for like wildfire.

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So that's been the first time where I

00:19:23.154 --> 00:19:26.614

have really noticed it at the studio and

00:19:26.614 --> 00:19:30.234

I also just think in general there are so many Pilates

00:19:30.234 --> 00:19:33.494

studios every gym has reformer

00:19:33.494 --> 00:19:36.494

Pilates now too and I've always viewed

00:19:36.494 --> 00:19:40.014

that as such a positive thing like the more people in

00:19:40.014 --> 00:19:44.174

yeah with awareness that's

00:19:44.174 --> 00:19:47.314

great like they're going to eventually find their way

00:19:47.314 --> 00:19:50.194

to your business and you you can

00:19:50.194 --> 00:19:53.214

yeah cater to the people who want who

00:19:53.214 --> 00:19:57.734

you are in can service um and

00:19:57.734 --> 00:20:01.774

it's great people are exercising that's what we want so um

00:20:01.774 --> 00:20:04.614

yeah I did feel at

00:20:04.614 --> 00:20:07.554

that time though I think at that

00:20:07.554 --> 00:20:10.994

point it was really hard to pinpoint what

00:20:10.994 --> 00:20:14.474

it was like was it the booking system was it

00:20:14.474 --> 00:20:17.194

the branding was it doing the branding and

00:20:17.194 --> 00:20:20.194

the booking system at the same time probably yes it's probably a

00:20:20.194 --> 00:20:23.274

combination of all of the above and you were opening north melbourne so

00:20:23.274 --> 00:20:26.874

you're probably and we were renovating north melbourne yep

00:20:26.874 --> 00:20:29.734

and um we also.

00:20:29.734 --> 00:20:32.634

Moved house in that time so i

00:20:32.634 --> 00:20:35.714

mean i don't you know i'm just guessing but i'm imagining like

00:20:35.714 --> 00:20:38.354

if i was a member at essendon in that time i would have

00:20:38.354 --> 00:20:41.134

been like kind of frustrated with the new booking system i couldn't figure out

00:20:41.134 --> 00:20:47.554

how to use it yeah and noticed that you weren't around as often and noticed

00:20:47.554 --> 00:20:52.634

that uh the new studio had opened up two blocks away with like unlimited classes

00:20:52.634 --> 00:20:55.914

for a month for 49 or whatever it was yeah.

00:20:56.554 --> 00:21:01.994

They had they both had really really strong intro offers where um i think there were like,

00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:06.060

$49 for at least three weeks unlimited.

00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:08.820

Yeah. I wouldn't call that strong. I'd call that aggressive.

00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:11.480

Yeah. Aggressive. That's a great word. Yep.

00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:17.620

Strong to me is something that convert that one, uh, covers the cost of acquisition

00:21:17.620 --> 00:21:19.780

of that customer and two converts well,

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:24.940

like converts well, like it's easy to get people to buy $49 for unlimited for

00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:29.060

a month, but it's not necessarily easy to convert those people into long-term

00:21:29.060 --> 00:21:32.580

members at like 60 bucks a week or whatever. Um, yeah.

00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:38.300

So, I mean, I don't know any of the economics of those franchises and they're

00:21:38.300 --> 00:21:40.980

still open, so I can, you know, it must be working to some extent.

00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.640

Yeah, exactly.

00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:52.560

And so how have you adapted, you know, and what equilibrium have you reached,

00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.880

if you have, you know, with those two new competitors in the local market now?

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:01.480

Um well like I was saying the

00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.380

last 12 months I really have

00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:07.760

been just trial and error with

00:22:07.760 --> 00:22:15.460

Essendon to try and pinpoint what exactly has not been operating as smoothly

00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:24.300

as it used to um so it's been a really good learning curve in understanding

00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:26.180

the business again on another level,

00:22:27.560 --> 00:22:30.820

um so yeah it's

00:22:30.820 --> 00:22:36.200

it's it's just a lot of trialing different things i want to jump in with a follow-up

00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:39.900

question to that then which is because this has been my experience like time

00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:45.760

and time again in my business like what is something that you thought you had

00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:49.240

figured out until you realized that you didn't have it figured out at all?

00:22:53.300 --> 00:22:55.600

Oh, that's a really good question.

00:22:57.840 --> 00:22:58.280

Everything?

00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.860

Well, come on, you know how to teach footwork. Yes.

00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:08.000

I think...

00:23:10.466 --> 00:23:19.226

Probably having that kind of same system that I thought was kind of foolproof

00:23:19.226 --> 00:23:22.386

in marketing and how we operate and how we do things,

00:23:22.966 --> 00:23:26.906

I think with the industry it's changed.

00:23:26.906 --> 00:23:36.806

So I wouldn't say that I haven't, I, yeah, I wouldn't say it's that I didn't know.

00:23:36.806 --> 00:23:42.746

It's just that it's changed so much now that you have to pivot.

00:23:42.746 --> 00:23:44.566

It doesn't work anymore. Yeah.

00:23:45.506 --> 00:23:53.046

And it's trying to figure out what works next. It's basically starting from scratch again. Yeah.

00:23:54.866 --> 00:23:58.546

And it is a different a different

00:23:58.546 --> 00:24:02.046

i'm different too which is my mom

00:24:02.046 --> 00:24:04.686

actually said to me the other day she's like well you're

00:24:04.686 --> 00:24:07.646

not the same person you were nine years ago when you first opened

00:24:07.646 --> 00:24:11.866

like of course of course it's going to be different and of course what you're

00:24:11.866 --> 00:24:16.046

doing next is going to be different we went and i'm coming from a different

00:24:16.046 --> 00:24:22.446

perspective as well with another the studio we went through that at breathe

00:24:22.446 --> 00:24:24.906

well being my studio and we started in 2007 we,

00:24:25.746 --> 00:24:28.466

no one knew what group performer was we had to explain it all we

00:24:28.466 --> 00:24:31.266

were handing out flyers we had lead boxes like

00:24:31.266 --> 00:24:37.966

physical lead boxes in cafes and things like that and you know that worked really

00:24:37.966 --> 00:24:43.666

well for a while until it didn't and and we had to completely reinvent you know

00:24:43.666 --> 00:24:47.686

a few times when kx started in that model of you know 10 reformers in a room

00:24:47.686 --> 00:24:48.906

started becoming the dominant model,

00:24:49.446 --> 00:24:52.046

we had 18 reformers in the CBD then as well.

00:24:52.306 --> 00:24:58.486

And so what was your model that was working that stopped working?

00:25:01.947 --> 00:25:09.267

So we have, we've gone from 12 to 13 machines always.

00:25:10.287 --> 00:25:13.927

Oh, actually, I take that back. You had 10 and 6 at one point.

00:25:14.027 --> 00:25:17.007

I had 8 and 6 and then 10 and 6.

00:25:17.767 --> 00:25:21.407

And then we got rid of the second side. We had one big studio.

00:25:22.087 --> 00:25:26.847

And can I just say, dear listener, if you're listening to this And you've got

00:25:26.847 --> 00:25:31.747

that set up of like, you've got two smallish studios, like rooms in one studio.

00:25:31.927 --> 00:25:33.807

We've got like eight reformers in one and four in the other.

00:25:33.907 --> 00:25:38.067

It's like, for the love of God, knock out the wall and just make it one big space.

00:25:39.147 --> 00:25:40.347

Don't do it to yourself.

00:25:42.347 --> 00:25:47.067

Yeah, yeah. So I take it back. That was how we originally started.

00:25:47.227 --> 00:25:48.767

We started with unlimited membership.

00:25:49.087 --> 00:25:52.447

With that same set up too, which no.

00:25:53.407 --> 00:25:57.347

Please, please don't. Please don't give me money. please please please don't

00:25:57.347 --> 00:26:02.787

make a profit yeah you don't want to make a profit and do that yeah,

00:26:03.787 --> 00:26:07.447

um so that was the original and yeah

00:26:07.447 --> 00:26:12.707

then eventually one big studio 12 machines managed to get 13 then we had covert

00:26:12.707 --> 00:26:18.867

that machine that 13 machine has gone in and out due to spacing at times but

00:26:18.867 --> 00:26:26.927

we've got 13 in there at the minute um and mainly just getting into a rhythm with the marketing and.

00:26:29.027 --> 00:26:31.867

Retention emails, all that kind of.

00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:36.990

Cycle after a couple

00:26:36.990 --> 00:26:40.210

of years it's really fascinating to

00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:46.610

watch the patterns so you kind of know okay this works then this works in September

00:26:46.610 --> 00:26:54.910

and it kind of goes into a little routine so I think with so many studios around

00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:58.330

at the moment it's not that that routine doesn't work.

00:26:58.330 --> 00:27:05.330

It's just that there's so many other offers all the time that it's, I feel like.

00:27:05.970 --> 00:27:11.990

It's finding a new way to communicate to your clients that we're,

00:27:12.090 --> 00:27:15.550

I'm still working that out. I'm, I still don't have the answers.

00:27:16.170 --> 00:27:20.610

So do you mean to differentiate yourself or something else? Yeah, exactly.

00:27:20.630 --> 00:27:26.290

And also not get into the habit of always having to do a discount or a sale

00:27:26.290 --> 00:27:31.990

pack or a challenge or, yeah, relying on retention, marketing emails.

00:27:32.530 --> 00:27:36.250

Yeah. Once you do those types of discounts and challenges and promos,

00:27:36.370 --> 00:27:39.130

like it can be, again, it's kind of addictive because you do one,

00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:40.970

you're like, oh, we made all these extra sales. Yeah.

00:27:41.310 --> 00:27:45.270

But then what happens is you pull sales forward from the next month, really.

00:27:45.450 --> 00:27:48.830

So you didn't actually make extra sales. You just did make some of next month's sales this month.

00:27:48.890 --> 00:27:52.410

And now next month, you're struggling for sales. So you have to do another promotion

00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:56.590

and pull sales forward from the next month. and basically you get on a treadmill

00:27:56.590 --> 00:27:58.030

and you can't, it's very hard to get off it.

00:27:58.350 --> 00:28:01.390

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think, um.

00:28:03.787 --> 00:28:06.847

In the last 12 months, I remember having a

00:28:06.847 --> 00:28:11.387

catch up with you and Julie and mentioning that

00:28:11.387 --> 00:28:18.907

we did a sale where we were opening north and everything was happening and I

00:28:18.907 --> 00:28:28.247

was noticing the rapid decline at Essendon and I did a 50 pack for $750 and

00:28:28.247 --> 00:28:30.367

it just went like wildfire.

00:28:30.367 --> 00:28:33.387

It was a flash sale it was only 48 hours

00:28:33.387 --> 00:28:40.607

and we did 72k in that 48 hours and there's one side of you that is like oh

00:28:40.607 --> 00:28:44.607

wow that's great but then the flip side of it that has ramifications because

00:28:44.607 --> 00:28:52.107

those clients are then they've already bought their pack it's pre it's prepaid money like you So, yeah,

00:28:52.287 --> 00:28:58.667

so my mindset right now is not those short-term fixes.

00:28:58.667 --> 00:29:03.107

It's going, okay, how can we make this more sustainable long-term?

00:29:03.347 --> 00:29:07.507

So, I'm not saying you never do sales or challenges or things like that,

00:29:07.547 --> 00:29:14.527

but how can we keep consistency where you don't have to do things like that?

00:29:14.707 --> 00:29:20.347

Yeah, I feel the same. I feel there's a place for those types of tools,

00:29:20.547 --> 00:29:22.767

promotions and salers and challenges and things.

00:29:22.907 --> 00:29:27.387

And that is when you just really need short-term cash, you know,

00:29:27.487 --> 00:29:29.107

and like that can be fantastic.

00:29:29.727 --> 00:29:34.367

Um, but they do kind of create.

00:29:37.338 --> 00:29:40.718

Basically, you pull sales forward from the next month or two.

00:29:40.818 --> 00:29:41.898

Yeah, it's a domino effect.

00:29:42.278 --> 00:29:48.538

It's not like anyone listening too could go, oh, wow, that's a lot of money

00:29:48.538 --> 00:29:50.558

to have injected into the business.

00:29:50.678 --> 00:29:56.298

But there's a trade-off to that. But your sales going down over the next.

00:29:56.298 --> 00:29:57.618

I'm still working with that trade-off.

00:29:57.738 --> 00:30:00.838

I'm still learning it because when you do something like that,

00:30:01.038 --> 00:30:06.338

I knew when I did it too, I knew that there was going to be a learning outcome

00:30:06.338 --> 00:30:13.838

from it because it's not a, oh yeah, and you don't get that and run off and go traveling.

00:30:14.418 --> 00:30:20.178

That's literally to pay all your bills. That's to pay your wages for the next three months. Yeah.

00:30:21.638 --> 00:30:25.078

And your tax and everything else that is there.

00:30:25.338 --> 00:30:31.818

Yeah. So, yeah, I know you know it all too well, Raph, and you've had so many

00:30:31.818 --> 00:30:35.558

pivots with Breathe that I know you know.

00:30:35.998 --> 00:30:41.878

Yeah, well, the education business, I would say, is evolving even more quickly

00:30:41.878 --> 00:30:47.478

than the studio business because I think the education business is at an earlier stage.

00:30:47.478 --> 00:30:52.578

Like the education marketplace is where this, the studio marketplace was like

00:30:52.578 --> 00:30:54.058

five years ago, you know, um,

00:30:55.018 --> 00:30:59.018

because it's just, it's just developing and, uh, uh, like those franchises that

00:30:59.018 --> 00:31:02.538

move next door to you, they're both off a training, uh, instructional training.

00:31:02.898 --> 00:31:06.498

Yeah. So, so they're, they're, they're kind of metaphorical figuratively,

00:31:06.718 --> 00:31:08.878

like setting up down the block from me as well.

00:31:09.258 --> 00:31:12.838

Yeah. So it is evolving very quickly and this, you know, what worked two years

00:31:12.838 --> 00:31:18.218

ago isn't working now and, and, uh, so there's a lot of that happening for us as well.

00:31:20.498 --> 00:31:24.838

Um, you know, what's, what's going really well for you right now?

00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:29.879

Um our trainers

00:31:29.879 --> 00:31:32.879

and our team culture are going

00:31:32.879 --> 00:31:36.779

really well um particularly at

00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:39.739

north melbourne with the new studio i feel

00:31:39.739 --> 00:31:42.819

like that that's really amazing

00:31:42.819 --> 00:31:46.899

to see nath's been doing um reformer

00:31:46.899 --> 00:31:51.699

academy onboarding all the new trainers and that's been super successful and

00:31:51.699 --> 00:31:58.199

having consistency um so when you say culture like what specifically do you

00:31:58.199 --> 00:32:04.279

mean by that when you say your culture's going well um so all the trainers that we have.

00:32:05.699 --> 00:32:08.899

They are all like i wouldn't

00:32:08.899 --> 00:32:12.159

say friend but they they're all together or maybe

00:32:12.159 --> 00:32:15.979

i should say friends like there's there's a really nice camaraderie

00:32:15.979 --> 00:32:18.799

yeah yeah with that is

00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:21.579

not like we've never said this is what you have

00:32:21.579 --> 00:32:24.619

to do it's like it's organic and they all

00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:29.759

go to each other's classes and they all have their own little catch-ups and

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:37.379

it's really nice to see from this perspective because I feel like that was me

00:32:37.379 --> 00:32:41.879

as a trainer but that was also me the first part of.

00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:46.179

Owning a studio for the first maybe even five years I

00:32:46.179 --> 00:32:52.599

feel like I I wouldn't say initiate would initiate but I was a part of that

00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:57.979

whereas this time I'm still a part of it but I'm not I'm not organizing I'm

00:32:57.979 --> 00:33:03.419

not orchestrating it I'm not there day in day out doing it with them it's,

00:33:04.219 --> 00:33:08.859

it's what about the what about the because I remember talking with Nathan about

00:33:08.859 --> 00:33:15.499

this before you guys opened and you know being very impressed by you know what

00:33:15.499 --> 00:33:18.059

he was planning to do with the team and really,

00:33:18.219 --> 00:33:22.679

I feel like that's something almost every studio owner gets wrong.

00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:26.739

And I've just recently done a couple of episodes, maybe three episodes on this,

00:33:27.019 --> 00:33:34.379

that studio owners almost always don't give enough guidance and feedback and

00:33:34.379 --> 00:33:35.819

coaching to their staff.

00:33:35.999 --> 00:33:40.679

And they often have, I'd say usually have staff that everyone's just kind of

00:33:40.679 --> 00:33:46.479

teaching random styles of different Pilates and there's no like real cohesion between the team.

00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:50.819

And I remember talking to Nathan a bit over a year ago and he was saying,

00:33:50.899 --> 00:33:52.659

I'm going to train those people up.

00:33:52.739 --> 00:33:56.559

They're going to teach the Nathan Ross Rees, you know, Reformer Academy way.

00:33:56.659 --> 00:33:58.279

And I was like, yeah, go. That's awesome.

00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.159

So tell me about the style of

00:34:01.159 --> 00:34:04.499

Pilates and how that's going in terms of alignment between the team there.

00:34:05.259 --> 00:34:08.099

Yeah. So he's literally doing what he said.

00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:16.859

Um so yeah it's it is really great because there is that um,

00:34:18.767 --> 00:34:21.967

consistency across all the classes

00:34:21.967 --> 00:34:25.287

um it is

00:34:25.287 --> 00:34:29.567

it has been funny because I've run

00:34:29.567 --> 00:34:32.427

Essendon myself for so long and

00:34:32.427 --> 00:34:35.767

it still is my my like

00:34:35.767 --> 00:34:40.167

I'm solo in Essendon and having Nathan

00:34:40.167 --> 00:34:48.567

North off um having trainers that have been at Essendon for some of them have

00:34:48.567 --> 00:34:53.227

been there for eight years still like I've still got some people who have been

00:34:53.227 --> 00:34:55.867

there yeah since almost the start,

00:34:57.227 --> 00:35:00.327

I do notice there's a little bit

00:35:00.327 --> 00:35:03.687

of difference between the two still um just

00:35:03.687 --> 00:35:07.387

inconsistency but I think

00:35:07.387 --> 00:35:10.307

it's mainly because of the age

00:35:10.307 --> 00:35:13.427

of the studio too where north is

00:35:13.427 --> 00:35:16.127

very fresh and everybody's kind of new and they're all

00:35:16.127 --> 00:35:22.627

growing together whereas Essendon has kind of we've got clients that have been

00:35:22.627 --> 00:35:29.567

coming since the start they smash out that like they are so strong like insanely

00:35:29.567 --> 00:35:34.287

strong I I genuinely think we've got the strongest advanced clients in Melbourne,

00:35:35.187 --> 00:35:37.627

Not in Adelaide, but in Melbourne.

00:35:39.867 --> 00:35:46.467

So, yeah, I think you originally asked what are our class styles.

00:35:46.667 --> 00:35:56.887

We're doing progressive reformer classes where each class we give spring level choices.

00:35:57.507 --> 00:36:02.147

And the idea is that we are progressively loading clients in every single exercise

00:36:02.147 --> 00:36:07.567

to get a specific outcome from what we're teaching so that they can always grow

00:36:07.567 --> 00:36:10.427

and they're always, yeah,

00:36:10.607 --> 00:36:12.727

levelling up their classes to get stronger.

00:36:14.987 --> 00:36:21.167

Yeah, but like I was saying, I do notice that having trainers that have been

00:36:21.167 --> 00:36:25.967

around for a long time in my first studio compared to the new trainers that

00:36:25.967 --> 00:36:28.067

are coming in all doing the same training.

00:36:31.147 --> 00:36:34.787

Yeah, it's hard to describe but it's.

00:36:36.313 --> 00:36:43.853

Yeah. So tell me about the, there's kind of a long question in here.

00:36:43.993 --> 00:36:50.033

It's got maybe a couple of, like a few questions within it, which is,

00:36:50.833 --> 00:36:56.873

okay, you've got these two studios, your partners in one and you've solely owned the other.

00:36:57.233 --> 00:37:02.433

Yep. combined with the fact that, and now Nathan, who's your romantic partner

00:37:02.433 --> 00:37:08.173

as well as your business partner, also has his own business that you're not

00:37:08.173 --> 00:37:10.753

a partner in, which is the Reformer Academy.

00:37:10.753 --> 00:37:13.713

Reformer Academy, yep. And he does his workshops too.

00:37:13.973 --> 00:37:17.813

Right. And so he does workshops in Australia and around the world.

00:37:18.713 --> 00:37:21.753

And you're both partners in this North Melbourne studio.

00:37:21.933 --> 00:37:26.333

I'm guessing you're 50-50 partners in that. It is, yep. And so,

00:37:26.453 --> 00:37:31.373

yeah, so firstly, you know, so my questions are like, how do you navigate the,

00:37:31.373 --> 00:37:36.193

the complexity of having multiple businesses with different kind of ownership?

00:37:36.373 --> 00:37:39.213

And I mean, they're both branded rise.

00:37:39.773 --> 00:37:44.733

Yeah. But they're not exactly the same. Like the, when I say brand,

00:37:44.873 --> 00:37:46.893

what I mean is not necessarily your logo and whatever I mean,

00:37:46.953 --> 00:37:49.533

like what people say about the business.

00:37:49.673 --> 00:37:55.473

Yeah, the culture and the, yeah. So the brand isn't exactly the same at both

00:37:55.473 --> 00:38:01.113

studios and obviously there's financial and marketing and all of that stuff

00:38:01.113 --> 00:38:04.553

that's not 100% shared between them.

00:38:05.133 --> 00:38:10.813

How do you navigate that? And then secondly, how do you navigate having your

00:38:10.813 --> 00:38:13.793

romantic partner and your business partner as the same person?

00:38:16.433 --> 00:38:20.633

It's a lot. It's a lot. i

00:38:20.633 --> 00:38:23.773

think how i navigate it it's like it it is

00:38:23.773 --> 00:38:27.073

um i spend a lot of my time

00:38:27.073 --> 00:38:29.953

thinking all the time all i do is

00:38:29.953 --> 00:38:34.793

think about all the things so even when you ask me at the start what does a

00:38:34.793 --> 00:38:38.853

day look like i'm just constantly like problem solving going okay how do we

00:38:38.853 --> 00:38:44.493

do this how do we do this like and it's i'm the only person that can do that

00:38:44.493 --> 00:38:47.073

no one can do that for me um Um,

00:38:48.713 --> 00:38:54.213

but yeah, marketing and there's a few expenses that the businesses can split,

00:38:54.213 --> 00:38:57.433

but then like you're saying, RAF2, there are their own separate.

00:38:57.613 --> 00:38:59.513

So they are completely separate entities.

00:38:59.933 --> 00:39:05.493

Um, any shared costs, they do get split and we work it out instantly.

00:39:05.493 --> 00:39:09.473

It's no one owes anybody anything from either.

00:39:09.473 --> 00:39:22.813

Um it's been a really long journey for me navigating that because it is really hard um because.

00:39:24.988 --> 00:39:31.248

I'm so used, I was so used to just rolling and taking action myself.

00:39:31.948 --> 00:39:35.408

Whereas having a business partner is great, but then also it's,

00:39:35.528 --> 00:39:37.788

you still have to communicate.

00:39:37.788 --> 00:39:44.108

And I've said this before, but I'm so lucky that we do see eye to eye on most

00:39:44.108 --> 00:39:49.328

things that, like, we do work really well together.

00:39:49.328 --> 00:39:53.868

Off um but it is still communication and

00:39:53.868 --> 00:39:58.428

there's extra um yeah it's

00:39:58.428 --> 00:40:01.548

just when you're doing it by yourself you just kind of can do

00:40:01.548 --> 00:40:07.188

it when you want to my my recollection and my impression from the outside as

00:40:07.188 --> 00:40:10.588

well and i guess i you know i talked with you guys whenever we come over to

00:40:10.588 --> 00:40:15.808

your place for for a meal a little while back that nathan's really i mean even

00:40:15.808 --> 00:40:18.928

though you're both very skilled at teaching Pilates.

00:40:19.008 --> 00:40:22.068

I mean, you've taught tens of thousands of Pilates classes at this point. Oh, yeah. You know.

00:40:23.468 --> 00:40:28.388

I don't know how many trainers I've trained coming through the studio as well.

00:40:28.828 --> 00:40:32.768

And was it great for a little bit with you guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:32.968 --> 00:40:38.448

And so you're very, very experienced, but it seems like Nathan's really taken

00:40:38.448 --> 00:40:44.028

the lead in the teaching the trainers and coaching the trainers and setting

00:40:44.028 --> 00:40:45.768

the class, you know, standard.

00:40:45.768 --> 00:40:51.328

And you've taken more ownership of the marketing and the operations. Is that accurate?

00:40:51.968 --> 00:41:00.408

Yes. I would say yes. And just the back-end running of everything, yeah, operations.

00:41:00.688 --> 00:41:04.988

And how did you come to that arrangement and how's that working for you?

00:41:06.468 --> 00:41:14.048

I think because Nathan has Reformer Academy and he was doing workshops and he

00:41:14.048 --> 00:41:19.148

was always keen to be teaching in the studio as well.

00:41:22.468 --> 00:41:27.188

Whereas with Essendon, I was already at a place where I was happy just doing

00:41:27.188 --> 00:41:31.188

my three classes a week. Nathan just loves teaching reformer.

00:41:31.388 --> 00:41:37.168

He just loves teaching reformer. And I also, with the back end of the business,

00:41:38.788 --> 00:41:44.448

sometimes ignorance is bliss And I think the first time opening Essendon,

00:41:44.628 --> 00:41:48.668

I was so naive and I think it's,

00:41:49.655 --> 00:41:54.555

that was kind of a positive at that time whereas this time going into opening

00:41:54.555 --> 00:42:02.715

another business i knew i know and i still i still was naive because it was

00:42:02.715 --> 00:42:06.455

more than what i even expected and,

00:42:07.335 --> 00:42:11.215

yeah naif was always going to be on the schedule was super

00:42:11.215 --> 00:42:16.815

excited to be training trainers so that's kind of how it happened and then coming

00:42:16.815 --> 00:42:25.915

from running Essendon so seamlessly for so long it just kind of made sense at

00:42:25.915 --> 00:42:30.115

the time but that's not to say that it's been easy because I.

00:42:31.155 --> 00:42:37.255

After 12 months I do kind of recognize that I'm also not supposed to be just

00:42:37.255 --> 00:42:42.535

behind a computer and working like this because I'm not happy doing it.

00:42:43.515 --> 00:42:46.655

So at the minute, this is just how it is,

00:42:46.695 --> 00:42:53.895

but I do have to work out ways to also go back to my roots,

00:42:53.895 --> 00:43:02.915

which were teaching and also being with people in community and doing more in person.

00:43:03.635 --> 00:43:09.155

And that's naturally happened at Essendon. So I'm picking up a few more covers

00:43:09.155 --> 00:43:12.815

and, yeah, going back to teaching on the schedule a little bit,

00:43:12.895 --> 00:43:15.515

which has been fulfilling for me.

00:43:15.935 --> 00:43:21.015

How do you guys manage the tension between, you know,

00:43:21.075 --> 00:43:24.755

you have this shared business at North Melbourne and then each of you has your

00:43:24.755 --> 00:43:31.015

own businesses and they're all competing for your time and attention, right?

00:43:31.015 --> 00:43:36.775

So if Nathan's off on some grand world tour teaching 50 workshops in the UK,

00:43:37.015 --> 00:43:40.695

Europe, the US, however, it's like, well, who the heck's, you know,

00:43:40.795 --> 00:43:42.555

looking after North Melbourne? It's me.

00:43:43.615 --> 00:43:50.735

And vice versa, if you're focusing on Essendon, you know, same, right?

00:43:50.835 --> 00:43:53.675

So how do you guys navigate that tension?

00:43:55.035 --> 00:44:00.975

It's hard. But we don't have it right at the minute, I don't think.

00:44:00.975 --> 00:44:05.075

But we're getting better and that's all you can do, I think.

00:44:07.495 --> 00:44:14.995

I do think up until maybe Feb this year, North Melbourne has been our main focus,

00:44:15.355 --> 00:44:18.995

being like the brand new studio that's been like,

00:44:19.815 --> 00:44:22.955

and I did teach at North as well for the first three months.

00:44:22.955 --> 00:44:25.775

And.

00:44:27.726 --> 00:44:35.886

That really, I feel like that put more pressure because we were working like

00:44:35.886 --> 00:44:41.546

ships in the night at home, also stress,

00:44:41.886 --> 00:44:45.866

but also talking about it all the time because it needed it.

00:44:46.066 --> 00:44:52.106

And there wasn't, it's not like a, like, ideally now it would be like,

00:44:52.206 --> 00:44:56.786

all right, after nine o'clock, let's not talk about the studios.

00:44:56.786 --> 00:44:59.686

It doesn't happen all the time, but you can kind of go, okay,

00:44:59.706 --> 00:45:00.726

not tonight. I've got enough.

00:45:01.506 --> 00:45:05.306

Switch off. But at that point in time, that first six months of the business,

00:45:05.326 --> 00:45:07.026

it's like having a newborn baby.

00:45:07.266 --> 00:45:09.786

You can't be like, oh no, we can't talk about this right now.

00:45:09.886 --> 00:45:16.026

Cause it, it, you need to talk about it right there and then to get it sorted.

00:45:16.506 --> 00:45:23.246

Um, so I feel like, yeah, now we've kind of got a little bit more balanced,

00:45:23.526 --> 00:45:25.886

not having to have after.

00:45:25.886 --> 00:45:33.226

I feel like the 12-month mark at North was that milestone for me to be like, okay, we're good.

00:45:35.066 --> 00:45:42.766

We're actually doing really good. So it's time to focus for me on Essendon because

00:45:42.766 --> 00:45:47.446

that's where I need to be investing more time and energy now.

00:45:47.606 --> 00:45:53.266

And Nath also back into doing what he loves with Reformer Academy and workshops as well.

00:45:53.266 --> 00:45:59.506

So I feel like just the timeline in general has given us a little bit more time.

00:45:59.506 --> 00:46:05.326

I think it's really important too that we still do have individual things happening

00:46:05.326 --> 00:46:13.926

as well because I found that it was hard, especially we're both very independent.

00:46:16.126 --> 00:46:22.126

Yeah, just individuals and to then be doing something so,

00:46:24.107 --> 00:46:28.147

Like a mesh together all the time. We both need that.

00:46:28.507 --> 00:46:34.147

But you and Julie do it, Raph. I feel like looking from an outside perspective,

00:46:34.567 --> 00:46:36.027

you and Julie do it so well.

00:46:36.707 --> 00:46:40.027

What's your secret? I think we do do it pretty well.

00:46:40.207 --> 00:46:44.867

I mean, we've certainly had our moments where we've struggled.

00:46:45.427 --> 00:46:54.447

And so, you know, Jules and I have been married 21 years. We've been together 27 years.

00:46:54.747 --> 00:46:56.567

I've got an 18-year-old daughter.

00:46:57.507 --> 00:47:00.807

We run a business together that we work from home.

00:47:02.227 --> 00:47:10.527

And so we literally spend almost 24 hours of every day, every day of the year together.

00:47:11.607 --> 00:47:17.507

And then when we're not working, it's like we go on across Adelaide to visit

00:47:17.507 --> 00:47:20.667

Julie's family or we go to my mum's place for Sunday lunch or whatever.

00:47:20.667 --> 00:47:22.747

It's like, yeah, we, we do pretty much everything together.

00:47:23.247 --> 00:47:26.087

Uh, you know, occasionally she'll go out with her friends for an evening.

00:47:26.307 --> 00:47:32.527

But, um, so I think how we navigate that is we have, and you know,

00:47:32.567 --> 00:47:35.867

it's not perfect. You know, we do occasionally get cranky at each other,

00:47:36.027 --> 00:47:39.407

but that's, it never lasts for more than 24 hours usually.

00:47:39.987 --> 00:47:45.827

Um, uh, we have, so we work physically different place in the house.

00:47:45.967 --> 00:47:49.107

I'm talking to you from my upstairs office, Julie's in her downstairs office

00:47:49.107 --> 00:47:51.787

right now. Um, so that's good.

00:47:51.887 --> 00:47:54.987

So we, we, we don't really see each other throughout the day when we're working,

00:47:55.047 --> 00:47:57.867

we come together at the end of the day or at lunchtime or whatever, and we, we talk.

00:47:58.487 --> 00:48:02.447

Uh, the second thing is we have clearly defined roles. Like we're both employed

00:48:02.447 --> 00:48:04.227

by the company in different roles

00:48:04.227 --> 00:48:07.047

and we have different KPIs and different departments that we work in.

00:48:07.187 --> 00:48:11.007

So it's like, we're not constantly treading on each other's toes,

00:48:11.007 --> 00:48:13.767

um, you know, within the business.

00:48:14.934 --> 00:48:19.734

Uh, and that we, we, we, we love talking about the business.

00:48:19.894 --> 00:48:22.554

Like we, you know, when we go out for dinner on Friday night,

00:48:22.694 --> 00:48:24.714

which we do every week, like we talk about the business.

00:48:24.814 --> 00:48:30.654

I mean, we, we also talk about other stuff, but mostly what we're interested in is the business.

00:48:31.574 --> 00:48:37.814

Um, but we do, we do kind of have an unspoken rule that we don't like once we're

00:48:37.814 --> 00:48:39.394

on the sofa at the end of the day,

00:48:39.714 --> 00:48:42.454

you know, winding down, it's like, yeah, we don't, we don't bring

00:48:42.454 --> 00:48:45.514

up like oh you know some problem in the business

00:48:45.514 --> 00:48:48.254

like that's not the time to talk about that did

00:48:48.254 --> 00:48:51.294

you hear this yeah and or when i bring julie

00:48:51.294 --> 00:48:54.954

because you know we have coffee in the morning uh jules

00:48:54.954 --> 00:48:57.894

likes to sit in bed and have her coffee and so we didn't have coffee together

00:48:57.894 --> 00:49:03.974

quite often it's like she just needs half an hour to stare at the wall and wake

00:49:03.974 --> 00:49:07.694

up and you know like i don't come in and go oh you know what should we do about

00:49:07.694 --> 00:49:13.654

this yeah yeah so you know like we've learn where each other's boundaries are

00:49:13.654 --> 00:49:17.314

and you know we we give each other feedback that is very.

00:49:17.894 --> 00:49:21.034

Blunt very you know very straight up and every

00:49:21.034 --> 00:49:24.474

now and then one or the other of us gets a bit defensive about that

00:49:24.474 --> 00:49:27.374

yeah you know um yeah but we

00:49:27.374 --> 00:49:30.314

work that's that's that's not the norm mostly we're like

00:49:30.314 --> 00:49:33.194

yeah we just move move past it and it's

00:49:33.194 --> 00:49:36.914

all good it's like we you need to be able to be honest um yeah

00:49:36.914 --> 00:49:40.114

with each other i would say that's that's

00:49:40.114 --> 00:49:42.954

it and we're just we're just honest with each other about where we think each

00:49:42.954 --> 00:49:46.674

other's and you know the other thing is with julie and me like i've been

00:49:46.674 --> 00:49:50.354

running businesses since 2007 and so

00:49:50.354 --> 00:49:53.074

i've and she only really started in this

00:49:53.074 --> 00:49:57.954

business like four or five years ago and so i've got like a 12 year head start

00:49:57.954 --> 00:50:02.074

on her yeah you know in terms of building a skill set and and she's learning

00:50:02.074 --> 00:50:06.494

very very fast and she's now at the point where she takes major responsibility

00:50:06.494 --> 00:50:12.754

for substantial areas of the business but there's there has been that skill disparity, uh,

00:50:12.834 --> 00:50:16.634

you know, like I'm a flight instructor and she's not, um, you know, uh.

00:50:17.214 --> 00:50:20.434

But now she's starting to have expertise in certain areas of the business that

00:50:20.434 --> 00:50:22.214

I don't understand as well as she does, which is.

00:50:22.474 --> 00:50:24.914

Yeah. Starting to level itself. Yeah.

00:50:25.474 --> 00:50:29.014

Yeah. That's amazing, Julie. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's, yeah.

00:50:29.094 --> 00:50:37.794

She's like, I think the thing that has really enabled that is that we both haven't,

00:50:37.834 --> 00:50:39.534

but I really want to shout out to Jules on this.

00:50:39.974 --> 00:50:44.194

A growth mindset where she like, she genuinely wants to get better.

00:50:44.614 --> 00:50:49.034

And I think a lot of people think growth mindset is like, you know.

00:50:50.534 --> 00:50:55.014

Studying and learning which, which it is, but I think it's, it's for most of

00:50:55.014 --> 00:50:58.314

us, it's really easy to study and learn in the areas in which we're already comfortable.

00:50:59.486 --> 00:51:01.866

And so like learning, you know, if you're a Pilates instructor,

00:51:02.466 --> 00:51:06.526

learning more things to do with fitness circle or five new reformer exercises or whatever.

00:51:06.746 --> 00:51:09.566

But it's like, what about the things that you fucking hate and avoid?

00:51:09.726 --> 00:51:12.466

Like how to have difficult conversations with your clients when they're,

00:51:12.566 --> 00:51:16.406

you know, they're, they're pushing your boundaries, you know?

00:51:17.706 --> 00:51:23.586

Yeah. So that growth mindset has been just like, I would say pivotal and foundational

00:51:23.586 --> 00:51:28.286

to us staying together and successfully working together over a long time.

00:51:29.186 --> 00:51:32.326

Yeah it's amazing amazing and you

00:51:32.326 --> 00:51:35.146

do date night too right we we do date night

00:51:35.146 --> 00:51:38.386

yeah um every friday night uh you know occasionally jules

00:51:38.386 --> 00:51:42.746

will do something else on a friday night and so we'll do date night on a saturday

00:51:42.746 --> 00:51:47.586

night but yeah basically every friday night but at least once a week yeah because

00:51:47.586 --> 00:51:52.346

we don't do that so i need to do something yeah friday night date night has

00:51:52.346 --> 00:51:56.106

been awesome for us and sometimes our daughter comes along as well like it doesn't

00:51:56.106 --> 00:51:57.126

have to be a big romantic thing.

00:51:57.206 --> 00:51:59.506

We'd just go down and have a pizza at the local place. Or sometimes we'd go

00:51:59.506 --> 00:52:01.726

somewhere really special, you know, get dressed up and whatever.

00:52:03.526 --> 00:52:06.686

Day before yesterday, we went into the city for the whole day and just walked

00:52:06.686 --> 00:52:10.126

around and had lunch at a nice place and talked about this, that and the other,

00:52:10.266 --> 00:52:13.166

window shopped and stuff. Yeah, it was good. Talked about the business a lot.

00:52:14.866 --> 00:52:19.166

But still, you're doing something else. You're in a new environment. It's different.

00:52:19.426 --> 00:52:24.266

Yeah. It's not in the house, same, same, you know, out doing something.

00:52:24.526 --> 00:52:28.546

Yeah. And that was Julie's idea because she gave me some really blunt feedback

00:52:28.546 --> 00:52:30.406

and I got a bit defensive about it.

00:52:31.306 --> 00:52:37.006

So she was like, okay, let's get out of the house and let's go and have a nice

00:52:37.006 --> 00:52:38.146

day and let's talk about it.

00:52:39.826 --> 00:52:43.366

Yes. Do you think that you can find balance?

00:52:44.246 --> 00:52:50.066

Or do you think balance is a little bit… What do you mean by balance?

00:52:50.146 --> 00:52:52.686

Like work-life balance? Work-life balance.

00:52:53.046 --> 00:52:58.966

Do you think that's possible? because I've gone in waves where I think.

00:53:00.549 --> 00:53:06.749

Maybe it can be, but I'm kind of at the swinging back the other way thinking, I don't know.

00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:11.929

I think if you, when you run a business that is your life, you can't really,

00:53:12.149 --> 00:53:13.749

it's, is it ever balanced?

00:53:14.249 --> 00:53:19.969

Yeah. I think, well, I think balance, I think where, where I disagree with what

00:53:19.969 --> 00:53:23.649

I perceive as being what most people believe about this is that the word balance

00:53:23.649 --> 00:53:26.529

implies it's like 50, 50, you know? Yeah.

00:53:26.669 --> 00:53:29.969

And to me that's like, well, if that's, if that's what.

00:53:31.149 --> 00:53:33.829

Somebody wants great you know good good for

00:53:33.829 --> 00:53:37.089

them but i don't believe that it has to be like

00:53:37.089 --> 00:53:41.449

that the right balance for each person can be different and so yeah and the

00:53:41.449 --> 00:53:44.769

right balance for a given person at a different season of their life can be

00:53:44.769 --> 00:53:50.529

different you know and i think if you and every i believe that in life there

00:53:50.529 --> 00:53:55.109

are no solutions there are only trade-offs like you can you can have this,

00:53:55.329 --> 00:53:57.749

but it means you have to give up that, you know? Yeah.

00:53:58.649 --> 00:54:04.709

And if you want to be very successful, like in the financial and business and

00:54:04.709 --> 00:54:08.549

impact that you, you know, realms of your life, it's like, well,

00:54:08.669 --> 00:54:13.329

you can't also have like heaps of leisure time and, you know?

00:54:13.749 --> 00:54:18.309

Yeah. There's seasons for, yeah, yeah, yeah. And- If you're building,

00:54:18.609 --> 00:54:20.129

you're not going to be going on holiday.

00:54:20.669 --> 00:54:26.769

Yeah. Right. And, you know, I mean- I think that, you know, there's this parable,

00:54:26.869 --> 00:54:31.169

and I'm not religious, but I really like this, and I believe it comes from the

00:54:31.169 --> 00:54:33.489

Bible, where basically, you know.

00:54:34.389 --> 00:54:39.989

Someone says, I prayed to God for strength, so God sent them trials to test

00:54:39.989 --> 00:54:43.809

their strength, you know, prayed to God for courage, and then God sent them

00:54:43.809 --> 00:54:47.409

a test of their courage, basically something that terrified them, you know,

00:54:48.009 --> 00:54:52.209

and prayed to be wise, so God, you know, sent them trials, you know,

00:54:52.909 --> 00:54:55.929

to… Yeah, I agree with that. I love that.

00:54:56.209 --> 00:54:58.589

Yeah. I really like it.

00:55:01.386 --> 00:55:04.286

And we've talked about this before as well, it's like, you know,

00:55:04.386 --> 00:55:08.286

your business can never outgrow your personal, you know, limitations.

00:55:09.106 --> 00:55:14.166

And I think that what excites me and Julie, I know as well, and I think,

00:55:14.386 --> 00:55:15.806

you know, you and Nathan too,

00:55:16.066 --> 00:55:21.806

about building a business is like who you become in the process of doing that

00:55:21.806 --> 00:55:25.866

because you have to face your own, you know, blind spots, weaknesses,

00:55:26.906 --> 00:55:30.006

you know, fears, you know, inadequacies.

00:55:30.566 --> 00:55:33.226

Yeah, it's all exposed. Yeah. It just keeps getting exposed.

00:55:33.346 --> 00:55:37.886

And you have to keep learning the lesson until you learn the lesson.

00:55:38.886 --> 00:55:42.146

You just keep making the same mistake until you go, yeah, actually,

00:55:42.266 --> 00:55:43.366

I'm going to do it differently.

00:55:43.966 --> 00:55:51.466

Yeah. And you can't just keep getting better at the things that you're already comfortable at.

00:55:51.586 --> 00:55:54.646

I mean, you can get better at them, but that's not enough.

00:55:54.806 --> 00:55:56.806

It's not. That's not true growth.

00:55:57.046 --> 00:56:01.426

That's just getting a little bit better. And so I think that,

00:56:01.586 --> 00:56:03.466

you know, the, the mindset,

00:56:03.686 --> 00:56:06.826

and this is about, you know, what we said about different seasons that there,

00:56:06.966 --> 00:56:10.226

you know, it's nice to have a season where you like to have like leisure time

00:56:10.226 --> 00:56:14.746

and sleep in and walk and smell the roses and spend time with loved ones and

00:56:14.746 --> 00:56:17.466

all that, read books and all that kind of journal and all that kind of nice stuff.

00:56:17.946 --> 00:56:22.086

But it's like, that's not the time of greatest growth in, those haven't been

00:56:22.086 --> 00:56:23.186

the times of greatest growth in my life.

00:56:23.286 --> 00:56:28.466

The times of greatest growth have been like struggle and grind and massive discomfort. it.

00:56:30.986 --> 00:56:34.566

And massive self-doubt and,

00:56:35.631 --> 00:56:41.271

you know, financial stress and, you know, like all of those things.

00:56:41.271 --> 00:56:44.571

And that, those have been the times where I've grown, you know,

00:56:44.671 --> 00:56:48.851

as a human, as a business owner, as a husband, as a father, you know.

00:56:49.911 --> 00:56:54.731

And so I, you know, I pray for that. I pray for those, you know,

00:56:54.791 --> 00:56:57.091

I pray for trials of strength and, you know.

00:56:58.371 --> 00:57:04.531

I feel like you'll find this funny. before opening North,

00:57:04.891 --> 00:57:11.651

and right before all the competitors and everything happened at Essendon,

00:57:11.831 --> 00:57:17.111

I signed up to, what was it called? The Jack DeLuce.

00:57:17.651 --> 00:57:22.751

Oh yeah, the Entourage. The Entourage, right. And my very first coaching call

00:57:22.751 --> 00:57:25.151

there, I said that I was bored.

00:57:27.851 --> 00:57:34.591

And that everything ran like clockwork and i needed a new challenge,

00:57:35.991 --> 00:57:41.051

oh great well you got your wish then didn't you and then within literally six

00:57:41.051 --> 00:57:48.911

weeks it's like i went from like playing you know video game mode like level 10 to like a level of.

00:57:51.311 --> 00:57:54.131

Yeah it just went all right you want you want this

00:57:54.131 --> 00:57:57.231

let's turn it up so yeah i

00:57:57.231 --> 00:57:59.951

look back now and i laugh because it's exactly what you've just

00:57:59.951 --> 00:58:06.311

said it's yeah i i wanted to get better and this is what got thrown at me to

00:58:06.311 --> 00:58:11.451

go okay there you go and it is nice to have those times where you do travel

00:58:11.451 --> 00:58:16.771

and spend time walking on the beach and reading books and hanging out with loved

00:58:16.771 --> 00:58:18.671

ones You know, those are all valuable things.

00:58:18.871 --> 00:58:20.991

Yeah. And I like to do those things as well.

00:58:21.911 --> 00:58:25.431

And, you know, Jules and I, we're at an age now, we're a little bit older than you.

00:58:26.531 --> 00:58:29.251

We're in our mid-50s. And so...

00:58:31.292 --> 00:58:35.312

You know, we're conscious that we don't have endless time remaining,

00:58:35.312 --> 00:58:39.852

you know, when we'll be healthy and fit and able to enjoy, you know,

00:58:40.212 --> 00:58:42.052

traveling and all that stuff.

00:58:42.392 --> 00:58:45.812

So we do try and travel as often as possible. But I mean, usually it's like

00:58:45.812 --> 00:58:50.052

a work thing where we'll take an extra week or, but we managed to go to,

00:58:50.192 --> 00:58:54.292

you know, nice places like for work in the last year.

00:58:54.392 --> 00:58:59.672

We've been to Paris, Carbo, Scottsdale, Las Vegas, you know,

00:59:00.052 --> 00:59:03.352

like we've been to We've been to some great places and it's,

00:59:03.352 --> 00:59:05.532

it's, it's really nice to be able to do that.

00:59:05.752 --> 00:59:09.692

And, and, you know, it's like, yeah, you're still working, but it's working

00:59:09.692 --> 00:59:13.192

on a balcony overlooking the whales at Carbo is like, it's not,

00:59:13.292 --> 00:59:15.212

it's not the, not the worst thing in the world.

00:59:19.292 --> 00:59:20.312

It's pretty epic.

00:59:22.792 --> 00:59:25.832

And yeah, so I think, you know, those things are valuable. And I think for each

00:59:25.832 --> 00:59:28.872

of us, we get to decide what's, what's important to us.

00:59:29.412 --> 00:59:33.772

And there's no, I don't, you know, I think where it becomes a problem is where

00:59:33.772 --> 00:59:36.812

people have shoulds, like I should have work-life balance.

00:59:36.952 --> 00:59:40.932

I, you know, I should be spending more time meditating or walking on the beach or whatever.

00:59:41.052 --> 00:59:45.812

It's like, well, if you don't want to, don't, you know, like if you want to work, work.

00:59:46.012 --> 00:59:51.432

If that's what, if that's what, if that's what draws you and what ignites you.

00:59:51.532 --> 00:59:54.352

And I think the other thing is like that, you know, and I listened to your episode

00:59:54.352 --> 00:59:57.092

with Sarah Mazzo, shout out to Sarah Mazzo, Sarah, I think you're awesome,

00:59:57.212 --> 00:59:59.452

but I'm going I just like wildly disagree with you on this,

01:00:00.312 --> 01:00:04.652

that, you know, Sarah said for her, the meaning, you know, of life is kind of

01:00:04.652 --> 01:00:07.372

like being happy. She wants to be happy. And I totally respect that.

01:00:07.592 --> 01:00:13.232

But for me, I sort of feel like that's, in my experience, kind of like not realistic

01:00:13.232 --> 01:00:18.172

because it's like, you just, you literally can't be happy all the time.

01:00:19.256 --> 01:00:22.096

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's not, it's not possible. Like,

01:00:22.416 --> 01:00:26.876

because even if conditions were ideal at all, at every moment of every day,

01:00:26.956 --> 01:00:32.136

which of course they're not, it's like you just become, you adapt hedonically, right?

01:00:32.136 --> 01:00:38.036

So the, the, the, the 50th spoon of ice cream doesn't taste as nice as the first

01:00:38.036 --> 01:00:40.156

mouthful of ice cream, right?

01:00:40.736 --> 01:00:44.236

And, and, you know, in every realm of life, that's true.

01:00:44.376 --> 01:00:48.176

Like your 10,000th Pilates class isn't as exciting as your first place class.

01:00:48.176 --> 01:00:51.056

You know making love

01:00:51.056 --> 01:00:53.776

with your partner after 25 years is not the same

01:00:53.776 --> 01:00:56.596

as the first time right and there are things that are better

01:00:56.596 --> 01:01:00.296

about your 50,000th time but overall

01:01:00.296 --> 01:01:03.976

it's like it's you adapt and it becomes more like every

01:01:03.976 --> 01:01:06.756

day you know like we live in this amazing house that

01:01:06.756 --> 01:01:09.616

when we moved into this house it's like oh my god I just wake up every morning

01:01:09.616 --> 01:01:12.196

look out the window go I can't believe I'm living here and now it's just

01:01:12.196 --> 01:01:15.156

yeah it becomes more water yeah you know like I don't even notice it

01:01:15.156 --> 01:01:18.056

and so i feel like traveling's very much

01:01:18.056 --> 01:01:21.276

like that too like the first couple of weeks first two

01:01:21.276 --> 01:01:24.396

weeks you're like wow and then after a while the hotels the

01:01:24.396 --> 01:01:28.516

novelty starts to wear off it's like oh another hotel oh another buffet at the

01:01:28.516 --> 01:01:32.836

start it's like wow that buffet breakfast yeah i i find the same and that's

01:01:32.836 --> 01:01:36.096

why we like to travel for about two weeks i think two weeks is about the optimum

01:01:36.096 --> 01:01:41.976

after that you do start to feel like yeah novelty wears off yeah but for the first two weeks,

01:01:42.056 --> 01:01:45.596

it's like, man, this is so awesome. You know, oh, I can't believe you get, yeah.

01:01:46.076 --> 01:01:53.656

So, yeah, so I feel like the, the idea of happiness, happiness is not a permanent state.

01:01:53.816 --> 01:01:55.636

I don't think it's a time, it was a permanent state.

01:01:56.116 --> 01:02:00.816

And so I think like, you know, Brooke, Brooke Castillo, um, who's,

01:02:00.976 --> 01:02:02.456

who runs Life Coach School, she's.

01:02:03.746 --> 01:02:08.046

She's awesome. She runs a business that does like $40 million a year or something.

01:02:08.726 --> 01:02:11.566

She's a really awesome entrepreneur and I think she's got a lot of wisdom.

01:02:13.286 --> 01:02:18.186

She has a saying called 50-50 and what that means is basically 50% of the time

01:02:18.186 --> 01:02:20.306

you're above average and 50% of the time you're below average.

01:02:20.446 --> 01:02:23.446

And it's like by definition, that's true, right? And so whatever your average

01:02:23.446 --> 01:02:27.046

level of happiness out of 10 is like, well, 50% of the days are going to be

01:02:27.046 --> 01:02:30.046

good days and 50% are going to be bad days relative to that.

01:02:30.046 --> 01:02:32.886

And so when you have a bad day that's not

01:02:32.886 --> 01:02:35.646

like you feel like how are you today like no i'm

01:02:35.646 --> 01:02:38.346

okay you know it's like not great not amazing you know it's like well

01:02:38.346 --> 01:02:41.126

yeah that's just normal 50 50 you know

01:02:41.126 --> 01:02:46.846

like and so i feel like for me happiness like i cherish those times like yesterday

01:02:46.846 --> 01:02:50.606

was father's day here in australia my daughter you know spent the whole day

01:02:50.606 --> 01:02:54.866

with me made me dinner got me a present maybe a dad rocks you know watched a

01:02:54.866 --> 01:02:58.466

movie with me from the 80s which is like 20 years before she was born.

01:02:59.786 --> 01:03:05.426

Bing, tick. Yeah. You know, so that was a moment, you know, that day was a moment

01:03:05.426 --> 01:03:07.606

that I cherish and that was a happy time.

01:03:08.226 --> 01:03:10.966

But it's like, well, every day is not going to be as good as that day.

01:03:11.286 --> 01:03:14.526

And you shouldn't expect it to be because if every day was as good as that day,

01:03:14.646 --> 01:03:16.166

it wouldn't be as good as that day.

01:03:16.666 --> 01:03:19.306

Yeah. Like if she did that every day for a year, I'd be like,

01:03:19.406 --> 01:03:22.646

oh, fuck, do I have to watch this movie again? You know? Yeah.

01:03:24.206 --> 01:03:27.126

Yeah. It changes. it's funny because I

01:03:27.126 --> 01:03:30.586

feel like Nathan and I have had a similar conversation where

01:03:30.586 --> 01:03:33.486

I have said like I've similar to

01:03:33.486 --> 01:03:37.986

what Sarah was saying about happiness and Nathan's

01:03:37.986 --> 01:03:40.906

pretty much said exactly what you've just said that

01:03:40.906 --> 01:03:43.646

it's unrealistic and that's not

01:03:43.646 --> 01:03:52.046

how life is and it made me think that maybe happiness is not quite the right

01:03:52.046 --> 01:03:58.826

word that it's finding joy in what you're doing is and they are two different

01:03:58.826 --> 01:04:03.466

things and I do think I have to clarify with Sarah but,

01:04:04.166 --> 01:04:07.166

I'm pretty sure she means happiness but when Nathan

01:04:07.166 --> 01:04:10.066

and I had a similar conversation it made me

01:04:10.066 --> 01:04:13.346

reflect and go well no no I don't actually mean happiness I

01:04:13.346 --> 01:04:16.186

mean finding joy like there

01:04:16.186 --> 01:04:19.386

still needs to be joy and that's

01:04:19.386 --> 01:04:22.146

not saying that you're not going to have challenges and things are

01:04:22.146 --> 01:04:25.726

going to be hard and you're going to have to do things you don't want to do and

01:04:25.726 --> 01:04:28.566

things are going to happen throughout the day that are shit

01:04:28.566 --> 01:04:31.586

and like it's life things happen

01:04:31.586 --> 01:04:35.546

but my take on

01:04:35.546 --> 01:04:41.986

it is that I still want to have the joy in what I do which almost kind of maybe

01:04:41.986 --> 01:04:51.886

ties into purpose yeah that when you are living with purpose and it's true to you.

01:04:53.078 --> 01:05:00.358

You, you, you're in more joy and happiness even throughout the difficult ebbs and flows.

01:05:01.078 --> 01:05:05.818

So I don't know. That's just, I just thought it popped into my head then that

01:05:05.818 --> 01:05:07.438

Nathan and I had a similar.

01:05:07.678 --> 01:05:11.898

I wouldn't say joy for me. I'd say more alignment, but I think I,

01:05:11.998 --> 01:05:13.638

I think I'm agreeing with you.

01:05:14.118 --> 01:05:20.038

Like, I think, you know, there, there's a different quality to like when you're

01:05:20.038 --> 01:05:23.478

grinding, just because there's a shit ton of work that needs to be done.

01:05:23.798 --> 01:05:27.498

And it's like, it's like, if I could choose to do this or like go for a walk

01:05:27.498 --> 01:05:30.038

in the park, I'd probably prefer to go for a walk in the park, you know,

01:05:30.638 --> 01:05:36.978

but this needs doing and I'm here doing it and it's not like fun as such,

01:05:37.158 --> 01:05:43.338

but it's some level on which it's satisfying or it feels empowering or something

01:05:43.338 --> 01:05:44.978

because you're doing work that needs to be done.

01:05:45.278 --> 01:05:48.758

And then there's a different quality to that. Like when you're going,

01:05:49.298 --> 01:05:51.858

you know, and everybody listening to this will have had this experience.

01:05:52.118 --> 01:05:57.158

You go into the studio to see a client that you really don't enjoy working with,

01:05:57.218 --> 01:05:59.278

you know, and you're like, oh.

01:06:00.798 --> 01:06:04.558

I feel like everyone knows that. Yeah. And it's like, that is,

01:06:04.718 --> 01:06:09.018

there's no like satisfaction or deep sense of purpose.

01:06:09.358 --> 01:06:12.798

You're just like, oh fuck, I just, I hope this hour goes quickly, you know.

01:06:13.618 --> 01:06:20.478

We'll say, get it done. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I feel like it's, for me,

01:06:20.818 --> 01:06:25.538

it's one of the things that has made a big difference over the last really only

01:06:25.538 --> 01:06:30.658

a year or so is choosing who I work with,

01:06:30.858 --> 01:06:36.598

both within the company and as clients of the company and just being like,

01:06:36.658 --> 01:06:38.958

yeah, no, I don't want to work with this person, so I'm not going to,

01:06:39.418 --> 01:06:42.418

just because I don't want to hang out with them. Yeah.

01:06:43.358 --> 01:06:48.478

Um, and I, and I like, I don't mean to say that I've like fired somebody because

01:06:48.478 --> 01:06:50.358

like. Because you don't like them.

01:06:50.838 --> 01:06:57.398

Because I didn't. Well. No. No. Well, I wouldn't hire, I wouldn't hire somebody

01:06:57.398 --> 01:07:01.158

if I, if I didn't think I would enjoy working with them.

01:07:01.318 --> 01:07:04.198

And when I say that, I don't mean like they have to like the same football team

01:07:04.198 --> 01:07:08.058

I like or the same music I like or, or, or anything like that.

01:07:08.058 --> 01:07:13.838

But I mean, I have to really find them inspiring and motivating and somebody I admire, you know.

01:07:14.078 --> 01:07:17.218

You want to work with them. Yeah. You want to be around them. Yeah.

01:07:17.478 --> 01:07:22.278

And same with clients. Like, I've realized that, I guess.

01:07:23.438 --> 01:07:35.298

My kryptonite is being around people who are, like, paralyzed by fear.

01:07:36.038 --> 01:07:38.038

Yeah. You know. and.

01:07:41.556 --> 01:07:46.876

And paradoxically, I love when I can, like when I can help somebody move from

01:07:46.876 --> 01:07:50.916

there to actually taking action in their own best interest and moving forward,

01:07:51.276 --> 01:07:53.356

like that gives me deep satisfaction.

01:07:53.996 --> 01:08:00.816

But when somebody is like just stuck in a loop of procrastination based on self-doubt

01:08:00.816 --> 01:08:02.036

and fear and overthinking,

01:08:02.236 --> 01:08:08.936

and they can see intellectually that they're there, but they just can't get

01:08:08.936 --> 01:08:10.796

out of it. They just can't take that next.

01:08:10.936 --> 01:08:14.856

Yeah. I find that for some reason that just, that drains my batteries.

01:08:15.476 --> 01:08:18.456

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, and so.

01:08:19.196 --> 01:08:22.756

Well, for your business too, they're not where you need them to be. Right. Yeah.

01:08:22.976 --> 01:08:26.276

You can't help, you can't help them because they're not ready to move forward right now. Yeah.

01:08:26.496 --> 01:08:29.596

So they're not the right person. Yeah. Right. And so, you know,

01:08:29.676 --> 01:08:34.456

for years I've made a big effort to like really kind of drag those people kicking

01:08:34.456 --> 01:08:36.116

and screaming across the line.

01:08:36.236 --> 01:08:39.656

But, you know, I've really come to a place where I'm like, okay,

01:08:39.716 --> 01:08:43.456

no, that's fine. And, you know, I'll throw you back in the ocean quite happily.

01:08:44.136 --> 01:08:46.256

Yeah, yeah. Save your bachelor too. Yeah. Yeah.

01:08:49.856 --> 01:08:55.176

What's, you know, what's something that, you know,

01:08:55.276 --> 01:09:08.036

you see that almost nobody talks about that is, you know, that is true for,

01:09:08.216 --> 01:09:10.396

you know, that, and maybe no one talks about it.

01:09:10.416 --> 01:09:14.776

Because they're embarrassed or they're ashamed or maybe they think everybody

01:09:14.776 --> 01:09:20.916

else like doesn't have the same problem and they don't want to be the weirdo.

01:09:21.136 --> 01:09:25.836

Like what's something that's an assumption that basically everybody gets wrong?

01:09:26.896 --> 01:09:34.116

In business or in the studio? In business, yeah. In running a studio business. In running a studio.

01:09:35.556 --> 01:09:40.696

I think it might be obvious to some people as well,

01:09:40.716 --> 01:09:46.496

but I think that there's still an assumption that everybody has their shit together

01:09:46.496 --> 01:09:53.876

and that outside perspective versus what is happening on the,

01:09:53.996 --> 01:09:59.516

is so different to what anyone would ever imagine. Um.

01:10:01.109 --> 01:10:06.589

And yeah, I wouldn't say like no one would know this.

01:10:06.709 --> 01:10:09.669

I do think that there's probably some people out there, particularly when you're

01:10:09.669 --> 01:10:12.389

a studio owner, you know the difference as well.

01:10:12.709 --> 01:10:15.229

Because you've got your own experience. I mean, I think like,

01:10:15.549 --> 01:10:19.129

you know, there's a saying, I didn't make it up, but I really like it.

01:10:19.769 --> 01:10:24.049

No business is as good as it looks from the outside or as bad as it looks from the inside.

01:10:24.409 --> 01:10:28.129

Yeah. And when you're on the inside, you're like, everybody's telling you,

01:10:28.189 --> 01:10:29.009

oh, your business looks amazing.

01:10:29.089 --> 01:10:31.469

It looks amazing. and you're like, oh, it's so fucked, I hate it,

01:10:31.529 --> 01:10:35.789

you know, but then you look at someone else's business, you're like,

01:10:35.889 --> 01:10:38.769

oh, I wish I had Laura's business, that looks so awesome, you know.

01:10:38.929 --> 01:10:44.849

Yeah, well, it's funny, even before coming onto the podcast to talk to you,

01:10:44.989 --> 01:10:48.069

I said to Nathan, I was like, I don't know if I've got too much to share at

01:10:48.069 --> 01:10:52.489

the minute with Essendon, I feel like I'm not in the best place that I've ever been,

01:10:52.629 --> 01:10:55.929

so it's like hard to share, and he kind

01:10:55.929 --> 01:10:59.609

of reminded me that what I

01:10:59.609 --> 01:11:02.889

like cutting 70 to 55 classes

01:11:02.889 --> 01:11:05.789

it's like to other people like

01:11:05.789 --> 01:11:11.989

55 classes is amazing like in like my like how I'm seeing it right now because

01:11:11.989 --> 01:11:20.709

I've I'm coming from a different angle in that business um yeah it's not from

01:11:20.709 --> 01:11:23.369

the outside perspective and to other people,

01:11:23.549 --> 01:11:26.049

it's still amazing. Like it is amazing.

01:11:26.849 --> 01:11:31.629

So it's a nice reminder. And like you're saying too, I guess –.

01:11:32.995 --> 01:11:37.255

Yeah, where I was leading to before is that everybody in their own business

01:11:37.255 --> 01:11:40.435

knows what's going on versus how it looks on the outside.

01:11:40.635 --> 01:11:47.315

But maybe not everybody knows that everybody is experiencing that too.

01:11:47.935 --> 01:11:53.615

That, yeah, no, I don't think anyone has their shit together all the time.

01:11:53.835 --> 01:12:00.495

Like there would definitely be periods where momentum's happening in the business where,

01:12:00.495 --> 01:12:03.755

yeah there'd be seasons little snippets

01:12:03.755 --> 01:12:06.575

of a couple of months where there might

01:12:06.575 --> 01:12:10.895

be studio owners being like yeah we're actually on an upward trajectory right

01:12:10.895 --> 01:12:19.015

now but that never stays the same that's always a constant work in progress

01:12:19.015 --> 01:12:23.895

so yeah I think I think that's probably,

01:12:24.815 --> 01:12:29.315

the biggest thing is that not everybody has no no one has their shit together,

01:12:30.655 --> 01:12:32.035

if they do it's not for long.

01:12:33.775 --> 01:12:37.095

Yeah a couple of things i want to get your your comment

01:12:37.095 --> 01:12:40.735

on that i've been thinking about recently one is that

01:12:40.735 --> 01:12:43.755

that you know in every

01:12:43.755 --> 01:12:47.095

crisis there's an opportunity and

01:12:47.095 --> 01:12:51.215

it's an equal and opposite opportunity like for example when you

01:12:51.215 --> 01:12:54.155

know a new competitor opens up around the corner or the industry changes or

01:12:54.155 --> 01:12:58.555

the in you know whatever it might be yeah like

01:12:58.555 --> 01:13:03.455

yeah that can harm you and and in very real ways like you can take money out

01:13:03.455 --> 01:13:08.815

of your bank right but then it's also an opportunity to reinvent your business

01:13:08.815 --> 01:13:14.315

or to really double down on what you do best in class you know and to really

01:13:14.315 --> 01:13:16.855

differentiate yourself and I feel like.

01:13:20.463 --> 01:13:23.703

People feel like combining that, and this is, when I say people,

01:13:23.803 --> 01:13:29.523

I really mean myself, that, you know, feel like taking a backward step or a

01:13:29.523 --> 01:13:33.123

sideway step or pivoting, you know, like you said, you went from 70 classes down to 55.

01:13:33.363 --> 01:13:37.103

Like that's, that's, there's no way you can kind of spin that to say like,

01:13:37.183 --> 01:13:40.343

oh, that's a really awesome thing where, you know, the business is thriving,

01:13:40.483 --> 01:13:41.463

it's doing, you know, everything's great.

01:13:41.583 --> 01:13:44.683

It's like, no, we just cut freaking 15 classes off the schedule,

01:13:44.883 --> 01:13:48.243

right? So, there's 15 hours of teaching people don't have, you know,

01:13:48.343 --> 01:13:49.383

money they don't have, et cetera.

01:13:50.623 --> 01:13:53.623

And so, to me, that's, for a long time,

01:13:53.743 --> 01:13:58.203

that's been like a blow to my ego, I felt like I'm failing because if I had

01:13:58.203 --> 01:14:01.863

to cut classes or let someone go or cut someone's hours or, you know,

01:14:01.963 --> 01:14:05.803

kill a course that wasn't working or whatever, it would be like, yeah, I failed at that.

01:14:06.203 --> 01:14:09.423

But, you know, recently I've come to think about it differently.

01:14:09.663 --> 01:14:14.463

It's like, if you look at big companies, they routinely, like Ford,

01:14:14.903 --> 01:14:20.323

you know, BHP, you know, Microsoft, they routinely lay off thousands of workers,

01:14:20.723 --> 01:14:24.703

whatever, if, you know, department changes or product changes or the market changes, you know,

01:14:25.083 --> 01:14:28.723

it's just a normal part of doing business that they close down a division or

01:14:28.723 --> 01:14:35.743

move a factory or whatever because the market changes or some other factor and

01:14:35.743 --> 01:14:38.343

they have to adjust their expenses or their marketing or their whatever.

01:14:39.243 --> 01:14:42.263

And they don't, I'm pretty sure they don't see it as a failure.

01:14:42.343 --> 01:14:44.603

They just see it as like, oh, we've got to cut some costs on this part of the

01:14:44.603 --> 01:14:47.063

balance sheet and. Like routine. Yeah. It's just routine.

01:14:47.363 --> 01:14:51.063

Right. Yeah. Right. So it's like, well, yeah, when you are running downhill,

01:14:51.163 --> 01:14:54.023

you run faster. And when you're running uphill, you run slower. And that's just. Yeah.

01:14:54.203 --> 01:14:56.523

You know, like. Yeah. That's just how it goes.

01:14:56.723 --> 01:15:02.503

And so I feel like that idea of, right, so you've got this opportunity to.

01:15:03.072 --> 01:15:11.132

Now because the market has shifted in Essendon and what was working 10 out of

01:15:11.132 --> 01:15:13.972

10 five years ago is now only working seven out of 10.

01:15:14.272 --> 01:15:19.112

I mean, it's still working, like 55 classes is awesome, right?

01:15:19.912 --> 01:15:24.392

But the shine's come off it a little bit and so you've got an opportunity to

01:15:24.392 --> 01:15:25.712

double down, to reinvent,

01:15:26.072 --> 01:15:28.932

to figure out what the next,

01:15:29.072 --> 01:15:32.452

because something will work 10 out of 10 now

01:15:32.452 --> 01:15:37.032

yeah it's just a matter of finding that thing exactly and

01:15:37.032 --> 01:15:40.272

um as you were saying that too what came to mind was

01:15:40.272 --> 01:15:44.052

even like with gardening you prune

01:15:44.052 --> 01:15:47.052

you prune back to help the new

01:15:47.052 --> 01:15:49.992

growths come so yeah it's just

01:15:49.992 --> 01:15:54.272

in the cycle that it's yeah cutting

01:15:54.272 --> 01:15:57.452

back to grow back stronger and finding out

01:15:57.452 --> 01:16:00.672

what those little things are and I

01:16:00.672 --> 01:16:03.772

have no doubt I still like I was saying I don't have all

01:16:03.772 --> 01:16:08.872

the answers right this second but it's all trial and error and if anything I've

01:16:08.872 --> 01:16:16.412

learned over the last nine ten years is that with trial and error eventually

01:16:16.412 --> 01:16:22.132

you get it and you get it really good and it's just keep going until you find the,

01:16:22.877 --> 01:16:28.417

that kind of magic jigsaw piece it's like oh that that's what we were missing there we go.

01:16:29.977 --> 01:16:33.217

So yeah at this point that's exactly

01:16:33.217 --> 01:16:36.117

how it is and it's just cutting back but

01:16:36.117 --> 01:16:40.617

it is hard in the moment when you're in it to remember that it isn't a failure

01:16:40.617 --> 01:16:48.057

like you were saying that it's it's actually just routine pull back get it strong

01:16:48.057 --> 01:16:55.517

work out what's next and off it goes again you you were saying to me like off air before we,

01:16:55.737 --> 01:16:59.737

you know, we were talking earlier today and, um, you're saying that,

01:17:00.237 --> 01:17:02.537

you know, we were talking about imposter syndrome,

01:17:03.117 --> 01:17:05.237

you know, so yeah.

01:17:05.417 --> 01:17:08.557

Tell me about your experience with that.

01:17:09.377 --> 01:17:13.897

I feel it with the podcast. That's, that's where it's most,

01:17:13.897 --> 01:17:19.097

um, um most i'm

01:17:19.097 --> 01:17:23.097

aware of it with the podcast that even after

01:17:23.097 --> 01:17:26.457

like 11 years in the industry i'm still

01:17:26.457 --> 01:17:33.697

thinking why am i the one like what what makes you think you can do this which

01:17:33.697 --> 01:17:39.477

is crazy because i i know everybody like it shouldn't matter like if you want

01:17:39.477 --> 01:17:44.477

to start a podcast start a podcast like That wouldn't be my advice to anyone.

01:17:45.157 --> 01:17:50.737

Everybody's going to have their own unique way of doing things and sharing things

01:17:50.737 --> 01:17:54.097

and storytelling, and there's enough room for everybody.

01:17:54.337 --> 01:18:01.797

So it's funny that you can get so hard on yourself where that's absolutely not

01:18:01.797 --> 01:18:03.617

how I would be with anybody else.

01:18:05.917 --> 01:18:09.197

But yeah, it's real. Imposture syndrome.

01:18:12.121 --> 01:18:20.041

Yeah. It seems like that's a massive thing for pretty much everybody I talk to in the Pilates world.

01:18:21.101 --> 01:18:25.641

Do you think it's a bigger thing in the Pilates world than in,

01:18:25.641 --> 01:18:28.641

say, like fitness, personal training or yoga?

01:18:30.681 --> 01:18:39.121

That's a good question. Throughout the years, I witnessed it most with new instructors.

01:18:41.361 --> 01:18:49.201

That I think that gap from like starting to teach and calling yourself a Pilates

01:18:49.201 --> 01:18:52.681

instructor, even though you've done all the training and you've done everything

01:18:52.681 --> 01:18:54.721

you need to do to get there,

01:18:55.061 --> 01:19:01.161

I feel like it's almost like an identity shift that you haven't quite clicked into yet.

01:19:01.161 --> 01:19:08.761

Like you're not regularly doing the thing enough to convince yourself even potentially.

01:19:09.121 --> 01:19:17.361

And maybe like that's similar with the podcast that it is a new thing it's a new skill,

01:19:18.861 --> 01:19:22.381

it's not regular like but

01:19:22.381 --> 01:19:26.121

for you raf this is what episode 300 and

01:19:26.121 --> 01:19:34.461

yeah 320 idol yeah like you when you've got the reps it's second nature it's

01:19:34.461 --> 01:19:37.981

like you don't question it for a second but when you're starting a new skill

01:19:37.981 --> 01:19:44.621

that's that's what I kind of think that maybe it's it's linked into the new

01:19:44.621 --> 01:19:46.001

skill you haven't actually.

01:19:47.688 --> 01:19:51.068

Yeah, clicked into your, that being a part of you.

01:19:52.288 --> 01:19:58.428

That's what Alex and Layla Hormozy say about fear and imposter syndrome is that

01:19:58.428 --> 01:20:02.668

like, well, it's just, you are actually an imposter because you haven't done

01:20:02.668 --> 01:20:05.468

the reps yet and the self doubt, like the confidence,

01:20:06.128 --> 01:20:09.048

you know, they talk about confidence being like in statistics,

01:20:09.048 --> 01:20:13.188

we say we have a, you know, 73% confidence that it's going to rain tomorrow or whatever.

01:20:13.188 --> 01:20:15.948

And so that that just means our confidence just

01:20:15.948 --> 01:20:18.968

means our expectation of the probability of

01:20:18.968 --> 01:20:22.068

an event occurring right and so your confidence that

01:20:22.068 --> 01:20:25.108

you're going to nail this class that you're teaching or whatever

01:20:25.108 --> 01:20:28.228

that's an that's an estimation of your percentage chance

01:20:28.228 --> 01:20:31.348

of nailing the class and if you've never taught a

01:20:31.348 --> 01:20:35.288

class before well the chance is realistically it's not a hundred percent you

01:20:35.288 --> 01:20:39.608

know like it but if you if you've taught 10 000 classes before and you nailed

01:20:39.608 --> 01:20:42.708

the last 5 000 of them it's like well your chance is like i'm going to nail

01:20:42.708 --> 01:20:48.128

this class And it's a realistic estimation of the likely probability of you

01:20:48.128 --> 01:20:50.708

doing that. And so you've done the reps, I guess.

01:20:50.888 --> 01:20:57.328

And in those reps, you rule out all the things that could go wrong because they

01:20:57.328 --> 01:21:02.728

have happened at one point or time and you have skills to be able to handle them. Right. Yeah.

01:21:03.328 --> 01:21:07.068

Right. And often things need to go wrong. You know, it's been my experience

01:21:07.068 --> 01:21:12.568

that I need to make the same mistake multiple times often before I really learn the lesson.

01:21:12.688 --> 01:21:15.208

Like, yeah, no, I'm not doing that again. Like, ever.

01:21:18.668 --> 01:21:22.648

True. But after you've made...

01:21:25.137 --> 01:21:31.457

The, you know, enough mistakes, enough times you become an expert because you've made,

01:21:31.637 --> 01:21:35.057

you know, I think, I can't remember who'd said it, but basically a definition

01:21:35.057 --> 01:21:41.017

of expertise I saw somewhere that I really liked is an expert is somebody who's

01:21:41.017 --> 01:21:44.517

made all the mistakes it's possible to make in a really narrow field.

01:21:45.617 --> 01:21:48.837

Right. And so if you, if you've taught Pilates thousands and thousands of times,

01:21:48.897 --> 01:21:51.797

you've made, you've literally made every possible mistake and you made them

01:21:51.797 --> 01:21:54.497

so many times that you figured out, yeah, no, that's not the way to do it.

01:21:55.137 --> 01:21:58.117

Yeah. And so now you just like, you know, the way to do it because you've done

01:21:58.117 --> 01:21:59.337

it every way that doesn't work.

01:21:59.457 --> 01:22:01.337

And you're like, yeah, no, none of those worked. I'm going to do it this way.

01:22:01.417 --> 01:22:05.477

And you've done it so many, done it wrong so many times that you're just in

01:22:05.477 --> 01:22:07.837

your bones, you know, that's not the way to do it.

01:22:09.217 --> 01:22:14.777

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess that, that definitely draws out imposter syndrome

01:22:14.777 --> 01:22:21.677

because you have the built-in confidence because you've got the skills to manage it. Yeah.

01:22:23.157 --> 01:22:28.337

I feel like, you know, there is though that, I think confidence,

01:22:28.617 --> 01:22:33.117

you know, I 100% agree with that in terms of confidence comes from doing the

01:22:33.117 --> 01:22:36.157

reps and from having evidence that you can do a good job.

01:22:36.297 --> 01:22:40.537

And that just come like at the start, like you can't do a good job as much as

01:22:40.537 --> 01:22:42.917

you can when you've done 10,000 reps, you know?

01:22:43.077 --> 01:22:46.417

And so, but you earn, I think you earn that confidence, but I think the mistake

01:22:46.417 --> 01:22:48.997

people make is- You still have to have confidence, yeah. No,

01:22:49.517 --> 01:22:53.697

but the confidence comes after the reps, not before the rep.

01:22:53.777 --> 01:22:57.437

You just have to do the reps and suck and go through that. And even.

01:22:57.797 --> 01:23:00.337

Do the reps that suck with confidence.

01:23:01.637 --> 01:23:07.157

Well, I think you do them with, if you, if you, by confidence, you mean a behavior.

01:23:07.437 --> 01:23:10.817

Yeah. A hundred percent. If by confidence you mean an internal emotion, I think.

01:23:11.357 --> 01:23:13.997

Yeah. Yeah. The two different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:23:15.838 --> 01:23:23.258

That's exactly what I mean, yeah. Is there anything that we didn't touch on

01:23:23.258 --> 01:23:25.138

that you want to talk about?

01:23:26.258 --> 01:23:31.538

No, I think we've covered a lot. I think we have too. Yeah, it's been great.

01:23:32.358 --> 01:23:37.578

Yeah, I don't think, there's no side quest that I don't think we circled back on.

01:23:37.778 --> 01:23:41.178

So, yeah, it's great.

01:23:42.458 --> 01:23:47.358

Can you think of anything else? Um, I mean, there's so much I'd like to talk

01:23:47.358 --> 01:23:51.378

to you about, you know, lots of the nitty gritty of running a studio,

01:23:51.658 --> 01:23:54.478

like instructor pay, hiring, training, marketing,

01:23:55.198 --> 01:23:58.558

you know, it's timetabling, scheduling, client retention.

01:23:58.798 --> 01:24:01.178

Like I'd like to talk to you about all your financial profit,

01:24:01.398 --> 01:24:07.338

KPIs, uh, yeah, coaching, why you step back from that.

01:24:07.458 --> 01:24:10.698

And if you, you know, why you'd haven't gone back into that,

01:24:10.818 --> 01:24:13.958

why you chose to do a podcast instead before you went back into coaching and

01:24:13.958 --> 01:24:17.818

if you will go back into coaching and how might that look if you did.

01:24:18.138 --> 01:24:21.498

You know, like there's so many things I'd like to discuss. Yeah, there's so many things.

01:24:21.498 --> 01:24:25.598

It's like, oh, another podcast. And will, you know, is there an alternate universe?

01:24:25.598 --> 01:24:29.638

Is there a possible future in which you and Nathan combine your resources and

01:24:29.638 --> 01:24:34.218

become shared owners of those entities, you know, and what might that look like

01:24:34.218 --> 01:24:35.878

and under what conditions would that happen?

01:24:36.858 --> 01:24:39.678

Yeah. Yeah, like, yeah, there's so much I'd like to discuss. There's so much, yeah.

01:24:42.058 --> 01:24:47.638

How much time have we got no well let's book another one yeah okay that sounds

01:24:47.638 --> 01:24:53.418

great we can do that next time great good talk laura awesome thanks raf so good to chat to you.

01:24:54.480 --> 01:25:02.001

Music.