1 00:00:00,750 --> 00:00:02,252 We put time on everything. 2 00:00:02,252 --> 00:00:05,380 We put it on, newspapers, on checks. 3 00:00:05,380 --> 00:00:07,632 We even have it, like, on our computer down in the bottom. 4 00:00:07,632 --> 00:00:10,385 There's this little time and date, why? 5 00:00:10,385 --> 00:00:11,886 But we just. 6 00:00:11,886 --> 00:00:14,889 We're paranoid about, about time. 7 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:18,810 And and part of that is just the busyness of, of our lives. 8 00:00:19,060 --> 00:00:21,938 Somebody said that the United States is the only country in the world 9 00:00:21,938 --> 00:00:25,608 that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore, because we're always 10 00:00:25,984 --> 00:00:27,610 we're always rushing somewhere. 11 00:00:33,199 --> 00:00:35,160 Well, Merle Burkholder, it's a privilege 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:38,413 to have you back on The Anabaptist Perspectives podcast. 13 00:00:38,496 --> 00:00:40,248 a little about yourself. 14 00:00:40,248 --> 00:00:43,501 You've been in ministry for 45 or so years. 15 00:00:43,626 --> 00:00:45,295 You've served in church leadership. 16 00:00:45,295 --> 00:00:49,424 You've done a fair amount of teaching and traveling around in missions, 17 00:00:49,424 --> 00:00:50,759 things like that. 18 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:55,972 There is a particularly poignant and relevant topic we want to jump in today. 19 00:00:55,972 --> 00:00:58,975 And that's the topic of overload and burnout. 20 00:00:59,350 --> 00:01:02,479 And I'm guessing you've had quite a bit of experience with this 21 00:01:02,479 --> 00:01:06,316 in all those years of ministry and seen it in a lot of different environments. 22 00:01:06,441 --> 00:01:11,613 feels like the more I look, the more I see this in our people. 23 00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,532 People being overloaded or too busy or. 24 00:01:14,532 --> 00:01:16,743 Yeah, or burning out completely. 25 00:01:16,743 --> 00:01:19,287 So as we think of that topic, well, 26 00:01:19,287 --> 00:01:22,290 let's just jump right into it and start with what is burnout? 27 00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:24,042 Let's get some definitions out there. 28 00:01:25,085 --> 00:01:27,545 Yeah, burnout is kind of a state 29 00:01:27,545 --> 00:01:32,133 of like emotional and physical exhaustion that just comes from poorly managed 30 00:01:32,175 --> 00:01:35,887 stress in life and in the workplace, primarily. 31 00:01:35,887 --> 00:01:39,516 But, yeah, it gets at the point where you just 32 00:01:40,558 --> 00:01:44,729 have no energy and feel totally depleted 33 00:01:45,021 --> 00:01:48,316 and everything becomes a crisis. 34 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:50,902 yeah. 35 00:01:50,902 --> 00:01:53,530 So a statement I've heard quite a bit. 36 00:01:53,530 --> 00:01:56,783 I'm sure we all have, but, is, this, 37 00:01:56,783 --> 00:02:00,078 to quote, it's better to burn out than to rust out. 38 00:02:00,662 --> 00:02:03,623 analyze this. Is that a true statement? 39 00:02:03,748 --> 00:02:05,834 Well, either way, you're out. 40 00:02:05,834 --> 00:02:08,920 So whether you burn out or rust out, 41 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:11,923 and the goal is to stay in 42 00:02:12,215 --> 00:02:16,678 and to be the living, be living life in a way that's sustainable. 43 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:20,223 And to recognize on one hand, 44 00:02:20,390 --> 00:02:23,393 this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. 45 00:02:23,393 --> 00:02:27,438 And I need to pace myself so that I can be, 46 00:02:28,022 --> 00:02:32,277 so my life is sustainable, and what I'm doing is sustainable for the long haul. 47 00:02:32,569 --> 00:02:36,239 But on the second, on the other hand, it is a it is a race. 48 00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:39,534 And I need to get engaged and I, I'm not and I'm not a spectator. 49 00:02:39,534 --> 00:02:41,119 I'm not sitting on the sidelines. 50 00:02:41,119 --> 00:02:46,291 so I need to get involved, but I need to be it needs to be sustainable. 51 00:02:46,666 --> 00:02:51,337 Well, so I just wonder then why do we say statements like that? 52 00:02:51,462 --> 00:02:52,839 Because it seems, 53 00:02:53,882 --> 00:02:56,050 why what's the word just 54 00:02:56,050 --> 00:02:59,888 disingenuous or not well articulated or well thought out 55 00:02:59,888 --> 00:03:03,725 to, to say that because it feels, oh it's better to burn out than rust out. 56 00:03:03,725 --> 00:03:06,686 That's putting a lot of pressure on people, is it not? 57 00:03:06,769 --> 00:03:09,397 it's it justifies our busyness 58 00:03:09,397 --> 00:03:12,358 and, and, and the pace of our lives. 59 00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:15,945 And so it's an excuse To be overly busy. 60 00:03:15,945 --> 00:03:20,491 And part of the problem is that we live in a society where busyness is. 61 00:03:20,992 --> 00:03:24,746 valued, and there's a lot of social pressure to be busy. 62 00:03:24,746 --> 00:03:28,124 And you think about it, when we meet someone, we’ll often say, 63 00:03:28,124 --> 00:03:29,292 so, how's things going? 64 00:03:29,292 --> 00:03:32,754 And or, you know, have things been really busy and, oh yeah. 65 00:03:32,754 --> 00:03:33,254 It's crazy. 66 00:03:33,254 --> 00:03:34,839 You wouldn't believe how busy it is. 67 00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:36,049 And, and 68 00:03:36,049 --> 00:03:39,010 and I don't know when the last time was that I asked somebody, 69 00:03:39,010 --> 00:03:39,969 so have you been busy? 70 00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:42,972 And they're like, no, I'm not. Not really. 71 00:03:43,097 --> 00:03:44,891 That's it. That is a good point. 72 00:03:44,891 --> 00:03:47,227 I don't know if that's ever happened to me, actually. 73 00:03:47,227 --> 00:03:51,314 And so there's this pressure to well, I need to at least appear to be busy. 74 00:03:51,648 --> 00:03:54,567 And so even if life is manageable, we still feel pressure to say, 75 00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:56,110 oh, yeah, it's just busy. 76 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:57,070 we're really busy. 77 00:03:57,070 --> 00:04:00,823 And, and so that 78 00:04:01,241 --> 00:04:04,244 that, thing of, well, I'd rather burn out 79 00:04:04,535 --> 00:04:07,538 then rust out is kind of a justification for that. 80 00:04:07,872 --> 00:04:08,998 For that busyness. 81 00:04:08,998 --> 00:04:12,210 And, and then we accept responsibilities 82 00:04:12,210 --> 00:04:15,588 and we accept things because we feel like, well, we ought to be busy. 83 00:04:15,588 --> 00:04:18,299 And it's it's the right thing to be really busy. 84 00:04:18,299 --> 00:04:21,594 And if I'm not busy, maybe that's not good. 85 00:04:21,594 --> 00:04:25,807 And, and so there's this pressure to be to be busy. 86 00:04:25,807 --> 00:04:27,892 And we live in a fast paced 87 00:04:29,102 --> 00:04:31,437 society where, 88 00:04:31,437 --> 00:04:34,983 we don't we don't do rest very well. 89 00:04:36,317 --> 00:04:39,279 and we don't even maybe know how to 90 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,407 we maybe don't even know how to rest, because we're just 91 00:04:42,907 --> 00:04:45,827 we're so time pressured and so time conscious, 92 00:04:45,827 --> 00:04:51,040 and our culture is like, everything is time based, and 93 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,086 and we're paranoid about being somewhere without when we don't know what time 94 00:04:55,086 --> 00:04:55,545 it is. 95 00:04:55,545 --> 00:05:01,342 Like everything that moves by the clock and it's, it's, 96 00:05:01,843 --> 00:05:03,636 We put time on everything. 97 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,639 We put it on, 98 00:05:06,848 --> 00:05:08,433 newspapers, on checks. 99 00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:10,685 We even have it, like, on our computer down in the bottom. 100 00:05:10,685 --> 00:05:13,438 There's this little time and date, why? 101 00:05:13,438 --> 00:05:14,939 But we just. 102 00:05:14,939 --> 00:05:17,942 We're paranoid about About time. 103 00:05:18,192 --> 00:05:21,863 And and part of that is just the busyness of, of our lives. 104 00:05:22,113 --> 00:05:24,991 Somebody said that the United States is the only country in the world 105 00:05:24,991 --> 00:05:28,661 that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore, because we're always 106 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:31,122 we're always rushing somewhere. 107 00:05:31,122 --> 00:05:32,915 That's pretty good. 108 00:05:32,915 --> 00:05:34,542 I've never heard that one before. 109 00:05:34,542 --> 00:05:36,919 Yeah, I'm gonna have to write that down. That's pretty good. 110 00:05:37,962 --> 00:05:41,174 So, can we get into 111 00:05:41,382 --> 00:05:45,762 a little of that of of just why, like this performance, 112 00:05:45,762 --> 00:05:49,807 this pressure emphasis and then how how does that intersect 113 00:05:50,141 --> 00:05:53,144 with the topic at hand, which is overload and burnout. 114 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:56,856 and, you know, I'll kind of let you take this where you will. 115 00:05:56,856 --> 00:05:58,149 This is a big topic. 116 00:05:58,149 --> 00:06:00,610 So it's kind of hard to know where do we even break into this. 117 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:03,946 Well, there is some value in pressure and. 118 00:06:04,364 --> 00:06:09,243 and a certain amount of pressure can increase performance. And 119 00:06:09,494 --> 00:06:13,122 and some people are really, 120 00:06:13,122 --> 00:06:16,334 I mean, they, they almost need pressure to function. 121 00:06:16,876 --> 00:06:19,420 They so, so some pressure is good and, 122 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:22,423 and our goal isn't to totally remove stress 123 00:06:22,799 --> 00:06:25,009 and pressure from our lives, but it's to keep it 124 00:06:25,009 --> 00:06:28,012 at a sustainable, level. 125 00:06:28,012 --> 00:06:30,098 And not everybody has the same tolerance for pressure. 126 00:06:30,098 --> 00:06:34,018 And, and as we look at people that just seem like they get so much done, 127 00:06:34,018 --> 00:06:37,021 they're just always doing something and they're amazing, and 128 00:06:37,313 --> 00:06:40,441 but maybe that's not me, and maybe it's okay. 129 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:44,862 I don't have to be living life 130 00:06:44,862 --> 00:06:48,825 at the pace of the most energetic person I know. 131 00:06:48,825 --> 00:06:53,121 I, I need to know what's sustainable for me and what I can do. 132 00:06:53,913 --> 00:06:57,250 And and have a pace that that is sustainable 133 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:00,253 for, for me in, in my life. 134 00:07:00,753 --> 00:07:05,299 And one of the things that I found helpful for me is, 135 00:07:06,008 --> 00:07:10,054 we often think about the different things commitments we have in life, like we have 136 00:07:10,054 --> 00:07:14,350 our commitment to God, we have our family, we have our work or our ministry. 137 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:17,979 And then there's other things in life and we say, well, God is most important. 138 00:07:17,979 --> 00:07:20,523 And then number two is my family. And number three is work. 139 00:07:20,523 --> 00:07:23,276 And but then work seems to take up 140 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:25,611 so much more time than maybe some of the other things. 141 00:07:25,611 --> 00:07:27,697 And, and so how does that all work. 142 00:07:27,697 --> 00:07:31,659 And, and I think the way I like to think about it is not so much, 143 00:07:31,659 --> 00:07:36,164 a list of a one, two, three list, but a pie graph. 144 00:07:36,581 --> 00:07:42,545 And my life, I have slices of my life for different things, and I have the slice. 145 00:07:42,545 --> 00:07:45,882 Or I'm working on my relationship with God and I'm fellowshipping with him. 146 00:07:45,882 --> 00:07:48,050 I have the slice for my family. I have a slice 147 00:07:49,135 --> 00:07:51,429 for ministry, and I may have different ministries 148 00:07:51,429 --> 00:07:54,640 that I'm involved with, and each one of them has a a slice 149 00:07:55,141 --> 00:07:59,020 and when I'm in that slice, 150 00:07:59,645 --> 00:08:02,023 that is my number one priority. 151 00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:06,402 And I want to be fully present in that slice. 152 00:08:06,402 --> 00:08:10,239 Because one of the things that happens is we have three or 4 or 5 things going on 153 00:08:10,781 --> 00:08:13,868 in different areas of our life, and we're in this moment, 154 00:08:14,702 --> 00:08:19,916 but we're thinking we have these wheels turning about 3 or 4 other things. 155 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:24,837 And so we're only half of our attention is here, and our energy is being drained 156 00:08:25,546 --> 00:08:29,008 by these other things that we know we need to do, or that we 157 00:08:29,050 --> 00:08:31,260 something's gonna have to be done about. 158 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:35,306 We can't do anything about it right now, but some of our mental energy 159 00:08:35,306 --> 00:08:37,600 and emotional energy is going into those things, 160 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,937 rather than being fully present in the moment where we are. 161 00:08:41,062 --> 00:08:44,732 And there's a great little, pamphlet 162 00:08:45,358 --> 00:08:48,361 by Charles Hummel called The Tyranny of the urgent, 163 00:08:48,444 --> 00:08:51,989 and he talks about how Jesus, you never get this, 164 00:08:52,031 --> 00:08:55,409 you never get the feeling that Jesus was in a hurry like he doesn't. 165 00:08:55,409 --> 00:08:55,826 You don't. 166 00:08:55,826 --> 00:08:56,786 We don't read about him 167 00:08:56,786 --> 00:08:58,913 telling the disciples, come on, pick up the pace here 168 00:08:58,913 --> 00:09:01,374 a little bit, like we are going to get to Bethlehem or whatever. 169 00:09:01,374 --> 00:09:04,377 Like it's just, no they're walking around and 170 00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:09,632 and then he'd have these interruptions and people would say, like the blind man's 171 00:09:09,632 --> 00:09:13,469 calling to him and saying, Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me. 172 00:09:13,469 --> 00:09:17,682 And he's on his way to, from Jericho to Jerusalem and. 173 00:09:17,932 --> 00:09:21,602 and yet he he he pauses in that moment, and that blind man 174 00:09:21,602 --> 00:09:24,939 gets his full attention just just for a bit. 175 00:09:25,314 --> 00:09:28,943 But he's fully present right there in that moment. 176 00:09:29,318 --> 00:09:31,404 And then he goes on to what else he's been doing. 177 00:09:31,404 --> 00:09:34,407 And I just think, and at the end of Jesus life, 178 00:09:34,532 --> 00:09:37,743 he said to the father, I finished the work that you gave me to do. 179 00:09:37,743 --> 00:09:39,328 There were still lots of blind people. 180 00:09:39,328 --> 00:09:41,831 There were still lots of people that hadn't 181 00:09:41,831 --> 00:09:44,250 didn't believe that he was the Messiah. 182 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,794 But somehow he had the confidence 183 00:09:46,794 --> 00:09:49,797 that I've finished the work that you gave me to do. 184 00:09:49,797 --> 00:09:52,800 And being able to discern, 185 00:09:53,843 --> 00:09:55,344 what is it that God wants me to do? 186 00:09:55,344 --> 00:09:58,347 Because not every opportunity is a call. 187 00:09:59,932 --> 00:10:03,102 there are things that need to be done, but someone else needs to do it. 188 00:10:03,477 --> 00:10:06,480 And to recognize I could do it. 189 00:10:06,939 --> 00:10:10,443 But being discerning, is this something that God wants me to do? 190 00:10:10,443 --> 00:10:13,362 And and that's a challenge too, because today 191 00:10:13,362 --> 00:10:16,490 we have so many opportunities and there's so many things that need to be done. 192 00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:19,910 But just sensing that 193 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:22,246 these are the things that I am responsible, 194 00:10:22,246 --> 00:10:24,081 these are the responsibilities I've accepted. 195 00:10:24,081 --> 00:10:27,460 And when I'm in that moment, to be fully present there 196 00:10:27,668 --> 00:10:30,880 and engage in that, let the other things go for now and, 197 00:10:31,672 --> 00:10:34,675 and just be fully present right here in this moment. 198 00:10:37,511 --> 00:10:39,972 so let's let's jump into a bit 199 00:10:39,972 --> 00:10:43,351 more on the definitions then of overload and and burnout. 200 00:10:43,684 --> 00:10:47,521 Could you describe maybe a bit of the difference between those two. 201 00:10:47,688 --> 00:10:50,399 How do we see this in ourselves if we know. 202 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:50,900 Oh okay. 203 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:53,903 I'm getting close here to to overloading myself or to burning out. 204 00:10:54,236 --> 00:10:56,614 yeah. Give us some specifics there. 205 00:10:57,948 --> 00:10:58,783 Well, having too many 206 00:10:58,783 --> 00:11:02,495 commitments and having said yes to too many things 207 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:06,582 and recognizing I'm not doing well with some of my commitments, I'm 208 00:11:06,582 --> 00:11:09,543 not I'm not really following through. 209 00:11:09,669 --> 00:11:10,753 And I forget things. 210 00:11:10,753 --> 00:11:15,424 I disappoint people, I tend to be an optimistic person. 211 00:11:15,424 --> 00:11:18,219 So when somebody says to me, could you do this? 212 00:11:18,219 --> 00:11:20,513 I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll do that. 213 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:23,724 and then I have so many other things going, I forget about it. 214 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:27,019 And they're expecting me to do that. 215 00:11:27,103 --> 00:11:30,106 And then two weeks later, a month later, 216 00:11:30,523 --> 00:11:33,484 I find out that, yeah, I forgot that. 217 00:11:33,567 --> 00:11:37,488 And and when those things start to happen, like, there was a time 218 00:11:37,488 --> 00:11:41,033 where I realized that I was doing that too much and 219 00:11:41,742 --> 00:11:44,245 I had to, start 220 00:11:45,579 --> 00:11:48,582 saying, you know, I, I need to stop saying yes. 221 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:51,711 I can't do everything that I think I can 222 00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:54,964 and I need to be, and I need to start keeping 223 00:11:54,964 --> 00:11:58,676 track of the commitments I have and things that I told people I'll do that 224 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:02,430 I need to write those down, because otherwise I'm going to forget them 225 00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:07,184 and I'm going to disappoint people and and then I'm going to be frustrated myself 226 00:12:07,184 --> 00:12:10,146 because I, I have these things that I committed to do. 227 00:12:10,354 --> 00:12:13,774 And so part of it is just recognizing the commitments I have 228 00:12:15,067 --> 00:12:19,238 and, and, knowing when I have enough. 229 00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:22,992 And because when I say yes to something, I'm saying no to something else. 230 00:12:23,617 --> 00:12:26,620 And so recognizing that, 231 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:28,956 here's an opportunity. 232 00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:33,878 But if I say yes, I'll do that, that means where is that going to come in 233 00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:39,675 my whole pie graph of my responsibilities, do I have room for another slice? 234 00:12:39,675 --> 00:12:41,302 And if I put another slice in there, 235 00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:43,763 it has to come from one of the existing slices. 236 00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:46,348 So where is it going to come from? 237 00:12:46,348 --> 00:12:49,351 And what am I going to do less of 238 00:12:49,894 --> 00:12:55,191 if I'm if I'm going to be able to do this and sometimes what often happens is 239 00:12:56,525 --> 00:12:57,485 we respond to the 240 00:12:57,485 --> 00:13:00,738 urgent things, rather the important things. 241 00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:03,324 And then the things that are really important are the one. 242 00:13:03,324 --> 00:13:07,411 That's where the, the, the time for the urgent comes from. 243 00:13:07,411 --> 00:13:08,871 So then it's our time with God. 244 00:13:08,871 --> 00:13:11,165 It's our time with our family, it's sleep. 245 00:13:11,165 --> 00:13:15,044 And and then we get our relationships suffer. 246 00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:18,464 We're not drawing strength from Christ, 247 00:13:18,714 --> 00:13:22,593 and we're lacking sleep and things start. 248 00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:24,303 Then things just start to look 249 00:13:24,303 --> 00:13:27,723 pretty bleak and pretty dark because our relationships aren't healthy. 250 00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:32,311 We're tired and I don't know about you, but for me, 251 00:13:33,187 --> 00:13:36,357 I need about eight hours of sleep to be a functional person. 252 00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:41,570 And if I start operating on about six hours of sleep, I lose my sense of humor. 253 00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:44,031 And I'm not a very nice person to be around. 254 00:13:44,031 --> 00:13:48,702 And so I just need I need sleep and and we have to recognize that. 255 00:13:48,828 --> 00:13:50,496 But if I make too many commitments 256 00:13:51,539 --> 00:13:54,583 and I start cutting out sleep, 257 00:13:54,583 --> 00:13:57,586 or I start cutting out my relationship with God, then 258 00:13:58,587 --> 00:14:00,297 I run out of energy 259 00:14:00,297 --> 00:14:03,551 and and then everything starts to suffer. 260 00:14:03,551 --> 00:14:06,554 And I can't do anything well. 261 00:14:06,929 --> 00:14:08,722 So let's say 262 00:14:08,722 --> 00:14:13,769 we're in this situation and too much pressure schedules two full. 263 00:14:13,769 --> 00:14:16,397 We've overcommitted. We've said yes too many times. 264 00:14:16,397 --> 00:14:20,067 What are some initial steps in dealing with burnout and overload. 265 00:14:20,818 --> 00:14:24,071 Well, the first thing is to recognize where I am 266 00:14:24,446 --> 00:14:27,116 and that, I am, 267 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:31,453 I'm in trouble and where I'm at, it's not sustainable. 268 00:14:31,579 --> 00:14:33,372 I'm not going to be able to keep doing this. 269 00:14:33,372 --> 00:14:36,375 something has to change. And, 270 00:14:37,001 --> 00:14:39,253 and what's going to change? 271 00:14:39,253 --> 00:14:42,256 And then to begin to 272 00:14:42,339 --> 00:14:46,802 to do some cleanup and look at, okay, there're commitments. 273 00:14:46,802 --> 00:14:48,137 I made that 274 00:14:49,346 --> 00:14:51,557 I'm not going to be able to fulfill. 275 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,061 And so looking at can some of those be passed off to other people. 276 00:14:56,604 --> 00:14:58,439 Is there delegation I can do. 277 00:14:58,439 --> 00:14:59,690 Are there people that I can ask? 278 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:02,443 to pick up some of these responsibilities? 279 00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,904 are there people that could help? 280 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:08,198 are there some things and just in an orderly way, 281 00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:12,870 getting out of some of the commitments that I've made and and being able 282 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:16,081 to say to people, I said I would do this, I have a commitment to do this. But, 283 00:15:17,082 --> 00:15:20,753 in all reality, I won't be able to do it, long term. 284 00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:23,297 And I need something has to change. 285 00:15:23,297 --> 00:15:27,885 And so we begin to take steps to either get help 286 00:15:28,969 --> 00:15:32,389 or step out of some responsibilities or, 287 00:15:33,432 --> 00:15:35,476 how can 288 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:38,562 I how can I develop myself so that I can do these things? 289 00:15:38,562 --> 00:15:40,439 What are things that I like? 290 00:15:40,439 --> 00:15:41,607 What resources do I need? 291 00:15:41,607 --> 00:15:46,403 What would help me, to be able to to make this sustainable? 292 00:15:46,403 --> 00:15:47,905 How can I do that? 293 00:15:47,905 --> 00:15:51,116 Because it's kind of like, if you're in financial trouble, 294 00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:55,371 if you're spending more money than what you're earning, you have two options. 295 00:15:55,371 --> 00:15:58,332 You can cut your spending or you can increase your income. 296 00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:01,251 And the same is true with meeting our commitments. 297 00:16:01,251 --> 00:16:05,589 We can either increase our income, our resources, 298 00:16:05,589 --> 00:16:08,592 what's coming into our lives so we have more to give, 299 00:16:08,592 --> 00:16:10,469 or we can cut out our commitments. 300 00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:15,808 And, one of the things that I found was that, 301 00:16:17,184 --> 00:16:20,229 the more responsibility I had in leadership, 302 00:16:21,146 --> 00:16:25,609 the more I needed time with, with God. 303 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:28,195 So as I 304 00:16:28,195 --> 00:16:31,198 got more responsibility in leadership, 305 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,243 I needed to have, a regular 306 00:16:34,451 --> 00:16:37,162 extended time of prayer, 307 00:16:37,162 --> 00:16:40,457 like a day of prayer so that I was spending like eight hours 308 00:16:41,625 --> 00:16:45,963 with God and just kind of worship and, 309 00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:50,259 and, and rest and, 310 00:16:51,343 --> 00:16:55,014 and extended going through my prayer lists and all of 311 00:16:55,014 --> 00:17:00,477 and one of the things that I would do would be to, create a worry list. 312 00:17:00,477 --> 00:17:04,106 And you think, well I don't need a worry list, but but, 313 00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:07,192 you know, the problem is that there's things that. 314 00:17:08,235 --> 00:17:09,570 Okay, so you're driving. 315 00:17:09,570 --> 00:17:12,614 I'm driving somewhere, I'm taking a shower, and then I think about, 316 00:17:12,656 --> 00:17:14,158 I need to do this. 317 00:17:14,158 --> 00:17:15,743 I need to do that. All these things. 318 00:17:15,743 --> 00:17:19,830 But I can't do anything about it right then, because I might not even be able 319 00:17:19,830 --> 00:17:23,667 to make a note of it because I'm driving, I'm showering, and. 320 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:27,129 But it's there, and it's it's taking energy. 321 00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:30,174 And so when I would create a worry list, I'd get down 322 00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:33,302 all the things that I worry about, all the things that I think about. 323 00:17:33,927 --> 00:17:37,347 And then I'd go through the worry list and I think, okay, what do I need? 324 00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:39,850 Is there something I need to do? Is there something I can do? 325 00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,268 There's something I should do about this, 326 00:17:41,268 --> 00:17:43,437 and if it is, then I put that on a to do list. 327 00:17:43,437 --> 00:17:45,773 If it was something that I can't do anything about, 328 00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:48,400 it would go on a prayer list. 329 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,361 And so then I'd come out of that with here's my to do list, 330 00:17:51,361 --> 00:17:53,489 here's my prayer list. 331 00:17:53,489 --> 00:17:55,908 Another thing I would do is I'd put my schedule before the Lord 332 00:17:55,908 --> 00:18:00,204 and say, what thoughts do you have on the next month of my life? 333 00:18:00,204 --> 00:18:02,790 And are there things that need to be put on my schedule? 334 00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:05,167 Are there things that should be taken off? 335 00:18:05,167 --> 00:18:08,879 And that really helped me just to get grounded 336 00:18:09,546 --> 00:18:13,258 and to get a sense of direction for. 337 00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:17,763 And so maybe it's getting more more resources 338 00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:22,101 and getting more being more intentional and finding ways of getting more 339 00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:26,105 direction from God on what he thinks about my schedule, 340 00:18:26,146 --> 00:18:29,691 my commitments, and some of that can help us then to be, 341 00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,655 to be able to function and make it more sustainable. 342 00:18:34,655 --> 00:18:38,909 and one of the things you, you mentioned there hinted at. 343 00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:42,454 That resonates with me is this sense of, 344 00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:46,083 I created this situation. So like, if. 345 00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:48,377 If I have a lot of overload in my life, 346 00:18:48,377 --> 00:18:51,964 acknowledging or taking ownership of that and saying I. 347 00:18:52,005 --> 00:18:56,009 I mean, I did say yes to all these things and this is kind of my fault. 348 00:18:56,009 --> 00:18:59,555 It feels like that's a pretty important first step, because until you acknowledge 349 00:18:59,555 --> 00:19:04,601 that, I'm guessing it'd be easy to just say, well, this is everybody else's fault. 350 00:19:04,601 --> 00:19:07,563 Who's giving me all this stuff to do and I can't keep up. 351 00:19:07,563 --> 00:19:10,065 Is that a is that a reasonable assessment there? 352 00:19:10,065 --> 00:19:11,316 it is. Yeah. 353 00:19:11,316 --> 00:19:15,070 And recognizing that, yeah, I'm responsible for this. And 354 00:19:16,613 --> 00:19:19,616 I accepted those responsibilities. 355 00:19:19,783 --> 00:19:22,744 And especially in, 356 00:19:22,744 --> 00:19:25,747 you know, an organization, 357 00:19:26,290 --> 00:19:29,543 people tend to push they want to push things up 358 00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:33,797 because they don't want to be responsible for the decisions they'll tend to get. 359 00:19:33,797 --> 00:19:35,340 If they can get you to sign off on it, 360 00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:38,969 then it's like, well, you know, Reagan said, this is what we should do. 361 00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:42,014 And to resist that, that 362 00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:45,475 pressure and say, well, you decide like it doesn't. 363 00:19:45,601 --> 00:19:46,894 I don't think it matters that much. 364 00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:52,441 You make a decision and and so then you don't have to you can keep things. 365 00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:55,694 You can push things down to where decisions are made 366 00:19:55,694 --> 00:19:58,697 at, at as low a level as possible. 367 00:19:58,906 --> 00:20:01,992 And that can really help to take the pressure off of, 368 00:20:02,701 --> 00:20:05,037 someone in leadership. 369 00:20:05,037 --> 00:20:09,333 So if we're in this situation what's the recovery looking like. 370 00:20:09,374 --> 00:20:12,377 You've already mentioned a couple things like growing to be able to 371 00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:14,713 actually try and remember the terminology you used. 372 00:20:14,713 --> 00:20:16,798 But basically expanding the capacity 373 00:20:16,798 --> 00:20:20,010 that's an option or this sense of pruning cutting things back. 374 00:20:20,719 --> 00:20:24,181 Give us some more things on on either of those or other points 375 00:20:24,181 --> 00:20:28,644 on recovery, getting out of this slump of, say, burnout or overload. 376 00:20:29,102 --> 00:20:30,562 well, it's knowing your limits. 377 00:20:30,562 --> 00:20:33,607 And, 378 00:20:33,607 --> 00:20:37,819 knowing what you can do and what, what you can't do and, 379 00:20:37,819 --> 00:20:43,700 and setting healthy boundaries, being able to say, no, I'm not going. 380 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:46,536 This is, this is how many 381 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,706 trips I'm going to do in a 382 00:20:49,706 --> 00:20:54,962 year, in a month, or, and putting limits 383 00:20:54,962 --> 00:21:00,467 on setting some boundaries on commitments that that we make. 384 00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:04,721 And I'm not going to take an assignment that takes a week of my time, 385 00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:08,892 because I just don't have that week to, to give. 386 00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:11,895 And so having some boundaries 387 00:21:12,104 --> 00:21:15,107 and then accountability for, 388 00:21:16,566 --> 00:21:19,319 for our schedules and, 389 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:23,156 having other people that. 390 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,203 Know what we're committing to and maybe having, 391 00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:32,332 especially if we're struggling to have some people that we say, I'm 392 00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:35,335 not going to accept any new commitments unless 393 00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:38,547 that person or these people agree 394 00:21:39,047 --> 00:21:40,090 that I can do that. 395 00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:42,592 because 396 00:21:42,592 --> 00:21:45,012 people that are overloaded, 397 00:21:45,012 --> 00:21:48,557 people that are, often people that are overloaded 398 00:21:48,557 --> 00:21:51,768 or experienced burnout is they tend to be repeat offenders. 399 00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:55,480 So you can clean up and then you just kind of slide back in. 400 00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:58,942 Three years later, five years later, you're back to the same, 401 00:21:59,943 --> 00:22:00,402 the same 402 00:22:00,402 --> 00:22:03,405 scenario where you just overcommitted again. 403 00:22:04,197 --> 00:22:07,200 and so having somebody to help to keep that from happening 404 00:22:07,492 --> 00:22:10,120 and where 405 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,789 and it's, it can be, it can be frustrating 406 00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:17,210 and relieving to have somebody else sign off on your commitments. 407 00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:21,173 Because first of all, when somebody brings a request, 408 00:22:21,923 --> 00:22:24,885 you can say, well, I have to talk to 409 00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:25,677 my spouse. 410 00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:27,554 I have to talk to my board. 411 00:22:27,554 --> 00:22:30,766 I have to talk to our church leadership team or whatever. 412 00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:35,395 And, and and that takes the pressure off of, 413 00:22:35,395 --> 00:22:39,399 the moment making the decision in the moment, because you can put it off. 414 00:22:39,858 --> 00:22:42,694 And maybe after you think about it for a week, 415 00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:44,946 it doesn't seem as as, 416 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:48,200 desirable or as urgent as it did in the moment. 417 00:22:48,742 --> 00:22:54,414 And and also, if the people you have helping you make decisions, say, no, 418 00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:56,875 you can go back and say, well, no, I, 419 00:22:56,875 --> 00:22:59,836 my team doesn't think I should do that or 420 00:23:00,670 --> 00:23:03,256 Whatever it takes the personal part out of it. 421 00:23:03,256 --> 00:23:06,134 It can also be frustrating because there are things 422 00:23:06,134 --> 00:23:09,513 you really want to do that people think, no, you shouldn't do that. 423 00:23:09,513 --> 00:23:15,143 And you feel restricted because you really would like to do that. 424 00:23:15,143 --> 00:23:19,022 But but other people recognize, no, you you can't. 425 00:23:20,357 --> 00:23:22,359 and there's, 426 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,445 there's also someone told me one time, there's, there's the principle of 427 00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:27,030 the distant elephant. 428 00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:32,202 So like when an elephant is way across the savannah, 429 00:23:32,202 --> 00:23:35,205 it doesn't look very big or very intimidating. 430 00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,458 But when an elephant gets within a car's length of you, 431 00:23:38,458 --> 00:23:42,379 the ground is shaking and it and it looks really dangerous. 432 00:23:43,004 --> 00:23:46,466 And we can make a commitment to something that's two years down the road and say, 433 00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:47,884 oh, yeah, I'll do that. 434 00:23:47,884 --> 00:23:50,887 And yeah, two years I can do that, or even next year. 435 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:53,974 But then when it's like next week, 436 00:23:53,974 --> 00:23:56,768 all of a sudden it's like, why did I say I would do that? 437 00:23:56,768 --> 00:24:00,313 I, I don't like I'm not I don't have time to do that. 438 00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:01,648 I don't I'm not ready. 439 00:24:01,648 --> 00:24:04,109 And and it becomes really stressful. 440 00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:06,695 And so just sometimes pausing and thinking, 441 00:24:06,695 --> 00:24:10,907 how am I going to feel about this the week before I'm supposed to do it? 442 00:24:10,907 --> 00:24:13,076 It can be really helpful. And 443 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:14,536 Think of 444 00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:17,539 it as that elephant's not two years down the road, so to speak. 445 00:24:17,539 --> 00:24:19,249 It's pretend it's right. 446 00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:21,585 Yeah that's really good. 447 00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:24,671 yeah, I wrote that down. That's a good one. 448 00:24:24,713 --> 00:24:27,466 Distant elephant. 449 00:24:27,466 --> 00:24:28,133 Yeah. 450 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:30,677 But having, 451 00:24:30,677 --> 00:24:34,764 people around us that know us well understand our schedules 452 00:24:35,098 --> 00:24:38,059 and can be very honest with us and say, I, don't think 453 00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:41,062 you should take all this on or, hey, your schedules looking a little full. 454 00:24:41,271 --> 00:24:43,273 Wow, that seems like some real wisdom there. 455 00:24:43,273 --> 00:24:46,818 But also, I'm guessing that's going to be really hard for a lot of people 456 00:24:47,194 --> 00:24:50,197 to have that level of accountability. Yeah. 457 00:24:50,405 --> 00:24:53,575 and some of that is just a result of being optimistic. 458 00:24:54,075 --> 00:24:57,078 And, know, an optimistic person can easily 459 00:24:57,245 --> 00:25:00,248 just over commit to thinking, well, I can do. 460 00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:00,790 Sure. 461 00:25:00,790 --> 00:25:02,083 And they think, you know, 462 00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:03,585 or we think as optimistic people, 463 00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:06,046 we think we can do a lot more than we actually can. 464 00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:10,050 And or we hope we can, and then we get overcommitted and, 465 00:25:10,383 --> 00:25:15,138 and just recognizing that, just recognizing that about myself 466 00:25:15,639 --> 00:25:20,685 and saying I am an optimistic person, I think I can do more than I can. 467 00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:21,728 And that's true. 468 00:25:21,728 --> 00:25:24,731 That and recognizing that that's true 469 00:25:25,106 --> 00:25:29,236 can help me to say, yeah, in my mind I think I can, but actually, I, 470 00:25:29,444 --> 00:25:34,533 I probably shouldn't, or actually, maybe I can't and I'm going to I'm going 471 00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:38,912 to disappoint others and, and disappoint actually be disappointed myself. 472 00:25:40,497 --> 00:25:42,916 So one of the things you talk about, 473 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,253 is this Elijah model. 474 00:25:46,503 --> 00:25:48,964 in part of this process of recovery. 475 00:25:48,964 --> 00:25:50,882 Tell us what that is. 476 00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:52,050 Well, I think about Elijah. 477 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:53,843 He had this great victory. 478 00:25:53,843 --> 00:25:57,389 And and I think that Elijah really thought that, okay, 479 00:25:57,389 --> 00:26:01,935 the prophets of Baal are all gone and and he has this thing with Ahab. 480 00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:03,478 The people decided to follow God. 481 00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:06,773 So he's going to be like a counselor to the king, and 482 00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:08,733 and everything's going to be great. 483 00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:10,819 And then the opposite happens. 484 00:26:10,819 --> 00:26:12,362 And his life is threatened. 485 00:26:12,362 --> 00:26:15,532 And he, he had this great, 486 00:26:18,868 --> 00:26:21,663 thing that he did that took a lot of energy. 487 00:26:21,663 --> 00:26:25,917 And it was, was, a very intense experience. 488 00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:29,379 And then he runs away and. 489 00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:32,591 he ends up sleeping under a tree and wishing 490 00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:38,597 he who could die and and and God sent an angel. 491 00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:41,850 And and at that point, God didn't ask him. 492 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:43,560 What are you doing here? 493 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,563 The the angel was like, here, this. 494 00:26:46,730 --> 00:26:48,023 Yeah. The journey's too great for you. 495 00:26:48,023 --> 00:26:50,483 Here's something to eat. Sleep. 496 00:26:50,483 --> 00:26:53,528 comes back and and, 497 00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:56,531 then he goes on and he goes way down in the southern 498 00:26:57,574 --> 00:27:02,078 part of Sinai and goes in a cave and and, there 499 00:27:02,203 --> 00:27:07,208 he’s in, in isolation and, and, you know, sometimes we just need to 500 00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,838 we need that withdrawal and we need to just 501 00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:15,425 step back from everything, and we just need to sleep and eat and 502 00:27:15,967 --> 00:27:18,637 and rest and, and I find especially after 503 00:27:18,637 --> 00:27:22,682 really intense experiences and I find like if I do an international trip 504 00:27:23,224 --> 00:27:28,980 and I'm in a place where things are really in chaos and it's just really is 505 00:27:29,022 --> 00:27:33,109 may even be dangerous, but it's just people are in abject poverty 506 00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:37,656 and there's just it's I mean, it's just, you can't hardly comprehend 507 00:27:38,073 --> 00:27:42,952 what life is like for those people, and, and you feel drawn to 508 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:45,413 what's happening there and 509 00:27:45,413 --> 00:27:49,084 then and I come home Like, how do I even process that? 510 00:27:49,459 --> 00:27:52,545 And I just need time to 511 00:27:53,129 --> 00:27:56,216 to think and time to rest and 512 00:27:56,591 --> 00:27:59,552 and sleep and, and 513 00:28:00,303 --> 00:28:03,306 and kind of allow myself to 514 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,310 think over what I, what I’ve experienced and process that. 515 00:28:07,602 --> 00:28:10,689 and so that period of time 516 00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:14,651 is important before I engage with my normal life 517 00:28:14,651 --> 00:28:18,530 and the issues that I face, 518 00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:21,783 every day in, in my normal routine. 519 00:28:22,492 --> 00:28:25,245 But that period of, resting 520 00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:28,206 in and reflection 521 00:28:28,289 --> 00:28:32,877 is, is healthy and in getting ready now I'm ready to go and I can engage 522 00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:36,631 with the things that I, I normally face when I'm, when I'm at home. 523 00:28:37,173 --> 00:28:41,344 But then God came to Elijah in the cave, and kind of his question 524 00:28:41,344 --> 00:28:44,347 then to Elijah is, what are you doing here? 525 00:28:44,681 --> 00:28:46,850 there's a time to come out of that. 526 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:50,395 And if we stay there, if we just say, okay, I'm done, I'm 527 00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:52,689 I'm withdrawing. 528 00:28:52,689 --> 00:28:55,316 And, God doesn't want us to stay there. 529 00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:55,608 And he 530 00:28:55,608 --> 00:28:59,654 he calls Elijah out and he say, well, I'm going to give you Elisha as a helper. 531 00:28:59,654 --> 00:29:02,490 And and here's some things you should do. 532 00:29:02,490 --> 00:29:03,742 And you're not alone. 533 00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:08,913 There's still 7000 people that haven't, bowed the knee to Baal. 534 00:29:08,913 --> 00:29:11,499 And so, no, you're not the only one. 535 00:29:11,499 --> 00:29:14,461 You're what you're thinking, isn't really quite right. 536 00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:16,504 And God calls us out. 537 00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:19,382 Get get reengaged, get going. 538 00:29:19,382 --> 00:29:25,054 But just that, that sequence of, sleeping and and eating and retreating 539 00:29:25,054 --> 00:29:29,309 and talking about what's the reality is and then getting some help 540 00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:32,312 and and going on. 541 00:29:33,104 --> 00:29:36,107 there's that it it seems to me, 542 00:29:36,107 --> 00:29:39,110 taking that recovery phase, I guess you could call it a 543 00:29:39,235 --> 00:29:40,779 or recovery period, 544 00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:44,783 this is going to be really hard if our lives are so busy and schedules 545 00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:49,078 just too full, you won't even have a block in the schedule to take that time. 546 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:53,458 But then there's the like you're saying the other side where Elijah has 547 00:29:53,583 --> 00:29:57,170 he does have to eventually leave that cave and go back in. 548 00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:58,338 So it's like you have this 549 00:29:58,338 --> 00:30:01,966 time of recovery and then a time of returning to the task. 550 00:30:01,966 --> 00:30:04,385 Is that a proper way of thinking about it? 551 00:30:04,385 --> 00:30:04,719 Yeah. 552 00:30:04,719 --> 00:30:09,974 And I think what happens is, so if I'm on a trip and people are needing 553 00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:15,313 things from me, I can say, well, I'm getting home Friday evening, 554 00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:17,649 Friday night or Saturday morning. 555 00:30:17,649 --> 00:30:20,026 I will, I'll take care of that. 556 00:30:20,026 --> 00:30:21,528 I'll do that. 557 00:30:21,528 --> 00:30:24,864 Well, then I get home, and now I have this list of things 558 00:30:24,864 --> 00:30:27,158 that I promised people I would do that evening 559 00:30:27,158 --> 00:30:30,620 or the next morning, and I don't feel like it. 560 00:30:30,995 --> 00:30:32,789 okay. 561 00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:37,794 I just, I need a, I need a so I can say, well, I'm getting home Friday night. 562 00:30:37,794 --> 00:30:41,089 Monday morning I will I'll do that. 563 00:30:41,297 --> 00:30:42,632 People can wait two days. 564 00:30:42,632 --> 00:30:45,468 It's not most things aren't going to... 565 00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:49,514 If they can wait till Friday they can wait till Monday. 566 00:30:49,514 --> 00:30:50,890 Probably. 567 00:30:50,890 --> 00:30:54,936 And so just creating that space, being intentional 568 00:30:55,728 --> 00:30:58,523 about creating a day or two 569 00:30:58,523 --> 00:31:00,441 where I can, 570 00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:04,112 go through the whole thing of, of, recovery 571 00:31:04,112 --> 00:31:08,533 and then getting myself ready to, okay, now I'm ready to come out of the cave and, 572 00:31:09,742 --> 00:31:12,745 and engage with life again. 573 00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:18,084 So with that recovery process and getting ourselves back on our feet, 574 00:31:18,418 --> 00:31:22,297 as it were, I think you have a list of practical things. 575 00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:26,134 You know, some keys that we can utilize and and implement into our lives. 576 00:31:26,134 --> 00:31:28,386 Do you want to tell us what those are? 577 00:31:28,386 --> 00:31:30,763 Yeah. first of all, we need sleep. 578 00:31:30,763 --> 00:31:34,684 And like we talked about already, we need to know what 579 00:31:35,268 --> 00:31:39,272 how much sleep we need to be functional and for life to be sustainable. 580 00:31:39,272 --> 00:31:43,776 So we do need sleep, and we can't cut out, too much sleep. 581 00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:46,154 Secondly, we need Sabbath rest. 582 00:31:46,154 --> 00:31:51,451 we can't go seven days a week. 583 00:31:51,451 --> 00:31:54,329 You just can't be on duty 24/7. 584 00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:56,164 It just doesn't doesn't work. 585 00:31:56,164 --> 00:32:00,126 And so we need those days of of rest. 586 00:32:00,418 --> 00:32:04,213 I knew, a contractor that, 587 00:32:06,841 --> 00:32:08,426 he was an excavator and 588 00:32:08,426 --> 00:32:12,305 and one time he, we had ordered a load of gravel, 589 00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:15,725 and he brought a load of gravel on Sunday morning, and I was like, 590 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:19,354 I said to him the next week, I said, listen, 591 00:32:19,354 --> 00:32:20,146 I wasn't expecting you 592 00:32:20,146 --> 00:32:21,689 to bring that gravel on Sunday. 593 00:32:21,689 --> 00:32:26,277 Like, what about your your, what about your weekend, 594 00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:28,029 and your day of rest. He said, Oh, in the summertime? 595 00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:32,617 I don't, he said I it's one day in seven, but I save them up. 596 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:36,079 I work seven days a week over summer, and then I take a week off 597 00:32:36,829 --> 00:32:38,289 After it starts snowing. 598 00:32:38,289 --> 00:32:40,208 And then those are my Sabbaths. 599 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:41,459 it doesn't work that way. 600 00:32:41,459 --> 00:32:44,045 Like, that's not sustainable. Like it? 601 00:32:44,045 --> 00:32:47,048 It really is. We need regular, consistent. 602 00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:50,677 This is a day when I'm just I'm off duty 603 00:32:50,885 --> 00:32:53,888 and I'm really I really am at rest. 604 00:32:54,138 --> 00:32:58,309 and that can be hard for a person 605 00:32:58,309 --> 00:33:01,354 who is working and then as a church leader. 606 00:33:01,354 --> 00:33:04,482 And so Sunday is a day when you're engaging 607 00:33:04,482 --> 00:33:08,486 with people at church and you're speaking or you have responsibilities. 608 00:33:09,654 --> 00:33:12,657 So to find where is that? 609 00:33:12,782 --> 00:33:15,410 Where is that day of of rest 610 00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:18,746 and where is the day that I can really disconnect 611 00:33:18,913 --> 00:33:22,583 from my responsibilities and have that, have that time of, 612 00:33:23,668 --> 00:33:24,335 of rest. 613 00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:26,713 And so that's important. 614 00:33:26,713 --> 00:33:27,880 And then we need friends. 615 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,261 we need people that we just enjoy being with socially and, 616 00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:36,264 there's no, 617 00:33:36,431 --> 00:33:39,851 there's no work responsibilities. 618 00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:41,936 They're not depending on us for anything. 619 00:33:41,936 --> 00:33:43,771 It's just we enjoy being with them. 620 00:33:43,771 --> 00:33:46,774 And, it's really just a social, 621 00:33:46,983 --> 00:33:52,113 a social relationship, and and people that are, are with us. 622 00:33:52,113 --> 00:33:53,948 And then we need inward renewal. 623 00:33:53,948 --> 00:33:59,996 We need to like my days of prayer that I had, time when I could just really get. 624 00:34:00,955 --> 00:34:03,958 in touch with what's really going on in my in my heart 625 00:34:04,083 --> 00:34:07,128 and get with God and, and just be renewed, 626 00:34:07,962 --> 00:34:12,800 spiritually, I read an account of a person that 627 00:34:13,634 --> 00:34:18,765 was experiencing burnout, and they went to their mentor and said, I just 628 00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:20,725 like, I got nothing. 629 00:34:20,725 --> 00:34:21,893 I'm, I'm dry. 630 00:34:21,893 --> 00:34:24,937 I'm I'm empty and the well's dry. 631 00:34:24,937 --> 00:34:27,565 I'm not getting anything out of the well. 632 00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:31,569 And their mentor told them, no, the problem isn't the well is dry. 633 00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:35,281 The problem is your pipe is too short and you need to be digging deeper. 634 00:34:35,281 --> 00:34:38,117 Like where are you at? Where you're at in life now? 635 00:34:38,117 --> 00:34:41,996 What met your needs five years ago isn't enough now. 636 00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:43,289 You need to go deeper now 637 00:34:43,289 --> 00:34:46,709 because you have more responsibility you’re at a different stage of life. 638 00:34:47,376 --> 00:34:50,379 And you need to draw from some deeper resources 639 00:34:50,505 --> 00:34:53,591 and so having that inward renewal where we're really 640 00:34:55,218 --> 00:34:57,678 tapping into what we need 641 00:34:57,678 --> 00:35:02,642 for the responsibilities and the place that we are in life. 642 00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:06,521 And then I think to be beware of celebrity. 643 00:35:06,562 --> 00:35:10,066 Like there are people that would like that think we're really great. 644 00:35:11,192 --> 00:35:12,068 And they put us, kind of put 645 00:35:12,068 --> 00:35:16,864 us up on a pedestal and, and, we need to resist 646 00:35:17,907 --> 00:35:19,951 putting ourselves up there and feeling 647 00:35:19,951 --> 00:35:22,954 like we really are somebody special. 648 00:35:23,162 --> 00:35:25,248 because we're not 649 00:35:25,248 --> 00:35:27,875 as great as our fans think we are. 650 00:35:27,875 --> 00:35:31,379 And but neither are we as bad as our critics think we are. 651 00:35:31,838 --> 00:35:34,841 And the problem is, if we, 652 00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:38,594 believe the praise of our fans, 653 00:35:38,970 --> 00:35:42,014 then we also have to believe the criticism of our critics. 654 00:35:42,431 --> 00:35:45,434 And then we go from, you know, in wild, 655 00:35:46,727 --> 00:35:50,773 ups and downs because somebody compliments us and we're like, oh, yeah. 656 00:35:50,773 --> 00:35:53,276 And then somebody criticizes us and we're like, oh, I'm a failure. 657 00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:57,029 And and we go from 0 to 100 and then back down to zero. 658 00:35:57,029 --> 00:35:59,991 And, and the truth is actually somewhere in between. 659 00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:02,618 We don't do everything wrong, but we don't do everything right either. 660 00:36:02,618 --> 00:36:06,372 And, That celebrity status 661 00:36:06,372 --> 00:36:10,168 is something that I think we just need to recognize. 662 00:36:10,668 --> 00:36:11,836 That's not really accurate. 663 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:13,546 That's not really true. And 664 00:36:14,589 --> 00:36:15,256 so, yeah, 665 00:36:15,256 --> 00:36:18,885 maybe the way I live my life, I've met a lot of people, 666 00:36:19,802 --> 00:36:23,014 but that doesn't make me a special person. 667 00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:26,017 That's just I just met a lot of people. 668 00:36:26,225 --> 00:36:29,228 And so it's like, 669 00:36:30,229 --> 00:36:32,148 there was man, 670 00:36:32,148 --> 00:36:35,443 that was the he was the, president of Moody Bible Institute, 671 00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:39,697 and he said that, one time his daughter asked him, dad are we famous? 672 00:36:40,072 --> 00:36:42,575 And he said, no, we're not famous. 673 00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:45,578 She said, well, we would be if more people knew us. 674 00:36:46,078 --> 00:36:48,706 So fame is just a matter of a lot of people? 675 00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:51,834 No, as it doesn't say anything about our character or, 676 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:55,213 it doesn't make us a special person. 677 00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,633 And then we need to remember that 678 00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:00,801 what we're doing, the sacrifices we're making, 679 00:37:00,801 --> 00:37:02,678 and the energy we're spending, it's worth it. 680 00:37:02,678 --> 00:37:04,847 It makes a difference. 681 00:37:04,847 --> 00:37:08,434 If it makes a difference for eternity, it's it's worth what we're doing. 682 00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:11,520 And so now it 683 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,358 it may seem like it's taking a lot of energy and, 684 00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:18,819 but someday we're going to be grateful for the way 685 00:37:18,819 --> 00:37:22,198 we spent our lives and the things that we that we invested in. 686 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,410 So part of it is about perspective and having one eye on eternity 687 00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:32,041 and saying, someday I'm going to be glad that this was done. 688 00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:35,044 And I don't know that there's any way to avoid it, but 689 00:37:35,544 --> 00:37:38,130 I would hate to get into that great multitude 690 00:37:38,130 --> 00:37:41,467 before the throne from every tribe and language and nation and say, 691 00:37:42,009 --> 00:37:45,680 well, if I knew it was like this, I would have done things differently. 692 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,223 I would have lived my life differently 693 00:37:47,223 --> 00:37:50,309 and probably will all have some of what we didn't know. 694 00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:54,522 It was like this, but but still keeping one eye on eternity 695 00:37:55,147 --> 00:37:56,691 and saying it's worth the effort. 696 00:37:56,691 --> 00:37:59,610 It's it does make a difference. And 697 00:38:01,112 --> 00:38:01,445 I want 698 00:38:01,445 --> 00:38:04,448 to live my life in such a way that when my life is over, 699 00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:07,952 there are people who will be in that multitude before the throne, 700 00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:08,494 and there are people 701 00:38:08,494 --> 00:38:12,290 whose lives are better because of the way I chose to live my life. 702 00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:15,293 So it it will be worth it. 703 00:38:15,793 --> 00:38:18,504 So when we look at those keys, 704 00:38:18,504 --> 00:38:21,507 we've talked about the 705 00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:24,468 definition of these things, how we get these points 706 00:38:24,468 --> 00:38:28,180 of burnout and overload, and then some of the practical ways of recovery, these, 707 00:38:28,431 --> 00:38:32,143 several practical keys you've just given us. 708 00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:36,355 Let's back it out a bit and say if we see someone else 709 00:38:36,355 --> 00:38:39,358 who's dealing with burnout or overload or. 710 00:38:39,567 --> 00:38:42,570 Yeah, is just overwhelmed, how can we help them? 711 00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:45,823 What are what are ways that we can pass this on to someone else? 712 00:38:46,949 --> 00:38:49,201 Well, we look for the signs 713 00:38:49,201 --> 00:38:53,289 of people that, we may have responsibility for, people 714 00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:57,001 that report to us in an organization or people 715 00:38:57,001 --> 00:39:00,004 in our church that, 716 00:39:00,588 --> 00:39:03,466 have too many commitments that are complaining about 717 00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:06,469 being exhausted. 718 00:39:07,011 --> 00:39:10,264 that maybe aren't accomplishing 719 00:39:10,514 --> 00:39:11,766 their responsibilities, 720 00:39:11,766 --> 00:39:14,310 that things that are too many things are falling through the cracks, 721 00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:19,148 and they're not really getting the things done that, that they're, committed 722 00:39:20,441 --> 00:39:21,317 to doing. 723 00:39:21,317 --> 00:39:23,194 And then 724 00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:26,072 we just help people to recognize where they're at. 725 00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:29,075 And, and before they get to the point where 726 00:39:29,075 --> 00:39:32,078 they become unable to function, 727 00:39:32,286 --> 00:39:34,455 we help them to pass off some responsibilities, 728 00:39:34,455 --> 00:39:39,502 find people who can help them, and, and help them to deal with 729 00:39:39,794 --> 00:39:42,755 with the situation that they find themselves in. 730 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:47,968 And we can be also be involved in their level of commitments 731 00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:51,764 and, and guard them from people asking them to do things. 732 00:39:51,764 --> 00:39:55,684 And, and if you're talking about who's going to do things 733 00:39:56,352 --> 00:39:59,105 and there's a new responsibility, somebody needs to do something. 734 00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:02,024 And you know that a person is close to to overload. 735 00:40:02,024 --> 00:40:04,985 You can and people suggest that, well, maybe we should ask them. 736 00:40:04,985 --> 00:40:06,487 You can say no, let's not ask them. 737 00:40:06,487 --> 00:40:09,657 Like I think they're I think they have enough already. 738 00:40:09,657 --> 00:40:11,659 And so we can redirect requests 739 00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:15,871 so that they're not faced with, a request to do things. 740 00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:21,168 And, we can help to, so we can shield them from, from those requests. 741 00:40:21,168 --> 00:40:23,879 And sometimes we can be the person who says no for them. 742 00:40:23,879 --> 00:40:28,634 And, and and we can be that person that they use 743 00:40:28,634 --> 00:40:35,307 as the accountability person to to, process their, their requests and, 744 00:40:35,474 --> 00:40:39,270 and help them to discern if it's something they really should do or not. 745 00:40:40,813 --> 00:40:42,898 So this is you given us a lot to think about here. 746 00:40:42,898 --> 00:40:45,901 And as we bring this episode to a close. 747 00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:48,946 What's one thing you'd like to leave with our audience? 748 00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:53,492 Well, I think, as I spent time in leadership 749 00:40:53,492 --> 00:40:57,621 in a nonprofit organization, I think one of the things that we did 750 00:40:57,788 --> 00:41:01,208 too much in the past is we would bring people in 751 00:41:02,042 --> 00:41:05,421 for a two year term of service, and we would kind of burn them out, 752 00:41:05,421 --> 00:41:07,339 use them up, send them back. 753 00:41:07,339 --> 00:41:10,968 We'd bring in another person, we'd use them up and send them back 754 00:41:11,177 --> 00:41:15,347 and I really think that in charitable organizations, 755 00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:18,601 I think we're doing better, but 756 00:41:18,601 --> 00:41:22,229 I think we need to be thinking more about 757 00:41:22,563 --> 00:41:25,566 if this person comes and gives two years of their life 758 00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:29,820 in our organization, how can we help them to leave 759 00:41:30,404 --> 00:41:32,865 a better person and be strengthened 760 00:41:32,865 --> 00:41:37,953 and go out ready to serve in some other capacity 761 00:41:38,245 --> 00:41:43,542 or in some other place, rather than having them go back 762 00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:46,670 just kind of burned out and, and exhausted. 763 00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:49,965 And so making the experience one of, 764 00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:54,803 of strengthening of building up and equipping for future service, 765 00:41:54,803 --> 00:41:59,600 even if person is only going to be with us for two years, how can we nurture them 766 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,563 and, and help them to be the person that God wants them to be going forward? 767 00:42:04,563 --> 00:42:05,898 And I just think that practice 768 00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:10,277 of bring people in, burning them out and sending them home, 769 00:42:10,277 --> 00:42:15,032 I think we need to rethink that and and do it differently. 770 00:42:16,825 --> 00:42:17,993 And then for ourselves, I 771 00:42:17,993 --> 00:42:22,748 think just, really being intentional about having a sustainable lifestyle 772 00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:26,293 and thinking about our commitments and being careful that we're not 773 00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:30,172 overcommitting, being honest with ourselves about what we can do 774 00:42:30,172 --> 00:42:31,090 and what we can't do. 775 00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:35,970 And and having God help us to discern what calls are, 776 00:42:36,887 --> 00:42:39,515 are, yeah. 777 00:42:39,515 --> 00:42:42,685 What opportunities are really a call from him for things that 778 00:42:42,977 --> 00:42:45,980 that we that we should do 779 00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:49,149 and my the, one of my basic 780 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,987 Premises in life is if that our default answer 781 00:42:53,654 --> 00:42:57,491 to God's call is yes, we're going to get to do some pretty amazing things. 782 00:42:57,575 --> 00:43:02,997 but on the other side of that is I can't say 783 00:43:02,997 --> 00:43:06,709 yes to everything that comes to me is not a call from God. 784 00:43:07,084 --> 00:43:10,379 And, so I can't say yes to everything, 785 00:43:10,546 --> 00:43:14,258 but God does use people who are willing and who say yes. 786 00:43:15,175 --> 00:43:18,762 That goes back to some of the early things you were saying in the episode where 787 00:43:19,388 --> 00:43:22,391 if you've maxed the schedule out completely and there's no room, 788 00:43:22,641 --> 00:43:25,185 and you filled it with all these other things and then God 789 00:43:25,185 --> 00:43:30,232 comes and gives a call to you, maybe you miss it because you're too busy. 790 00:43:30,232 --> 00:43:31,025 You don't even see it. 791 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:34,737 And we also have to realize that 792 00:43:34,737 --> 00:43:37,865 when I say yes to one thing, I'm saying no to something else. 793 00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:40,909 So it's like goes back to that whole pie graph of, 794 00:43:41,243 --> 00:43:43,996 where's that slice going to come from? 795 00:43:43,996 --> 00:43:49,376 And so I'm saying no to something and is what I'm saying yes to really 796 00:43:49,376 --> 00:43:53,797 what God wants me to do rather than what I'm going to say No to 797 00:43:54,506 --> 00:43:59,553 That's a I think that's an excellent point to end on, just really evaluating. 798 00:43:59,845 --> 00:44:01,597 You know, everybody that’s listening to this. 799 00:44:01,597 --> 00:44:04,475 What are we saying yes to and what are the things we're saying no to. 800 00:44:04,475 --> 00:44:06,935 And when we say yes to something we say no to something else. 801 00:44:06,935 --> 00:44:08,729 That's a that's a really powerful point. 802 00:44:08,729 --> 00:44:11,148 Well, thank you for coming on and sharing today. 803 00:44:11,148 --> 00:44:11,398 You’re Welcome. 804 00:44:12,733 --> 00:44:13,192 Thanks for 805 00:44:13,192 --> 00:44:16,195 listening to this episode with Merle Burkholder. 806 00:44:16,362 --> 00:44:19,531 If you'd like to learn more about the topic of burnout and overload, 807 00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:23,035 we did several episodes with Joel Yoder, a number of years ago, 808 00:44:23,035 --> 00:44:26,038 and you can find those in the description down below. 809 00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:29,333 As always, you can find all our content on our website 810 00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:31,251 at anabaptistperspectives.org. 811 00:44:31,251 --> 00:44:34,254 And you can also sign up for our email newsletter there. 812 00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:37,508 Thanks again for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode. 813 00:46:11,977 --> 00:46:13,771 We put time on everything. 814 00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:16,774 We put it on, 815 00:46:16,982 --> 00:46:18,567 newspapers, on checks. 816 00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:20,819 We even have it, like, on our computer down in the bottom. 817 00:46:20,819 --> 00:46:23,572 There's this little time and date, why? 818 00:46:23,572 --> 00:46:25,073 But we just. 819 00:46:25,073 --> 00:46:28,076 We're paranoid about About time. 820 00:46:28,327 --> 00:46:31,997 And and part of that is just the busyness of, of our lives. 821 00:46:32,247 --> 00:46:35,125 Somebody said that the United States is the only country in the world 822 00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:38,796 that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore, because we're always 823 00:46:39,171 --> 00:46:40,798 we're always rushing somewhere. 824 00:46:44,426 --> 00:46:47,429 And being able to discern, 825 00:46:48,472 --> 00:46:49,973 what is it that God wants me to do? 826 00:46:49,973 --> 00:46:52,976 Because not every opportunity is a call. 827 00:46:54,561 --> 00:46:57,731 there are things that need to be done, but someone else needs to do it. 828 00:46:58,106 --> 00:47:01,109 And to recognize I could do it. 829 00:47:01,568 --> 00:47:05,072 But being discerning, is this something that God wants me to do? 830 00:47:05,072 --> 00:47:08,075 And and that's a challenge 831 00:47:09,034 --> 00:47:11,161 And we also have to realize that 832 00:47:11,161 --> 00:47:14,289 when I say yes to one thing, I'm saying no to something else. 833 00:47:14,289 --> 00:47:17,334 So it's like goes back to that whole pie graph of, 834 00:47:17,668 --> 00:47:20,420 where's that slice going to come from? 835 00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:25,801 And so I'm saying no to something and is what I'm saying yes to really 836 00:47:25,801 --> 00:47:30,222 what God wants me to do rather than what I'm going to say No to 837 00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:48,300 We are all 838 00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,303 busy and seemingly getting busier all the time. 839 00:48:51,303 --> 00:48:55,015 Overload and burnout are a natural consequence of a lack of rest. 840 00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:57,351 How do we avoid burnout? 841 00:48:57,351 --> 00:49:01,188 And how can we see overload coming in the future and avoid 842 00:49:01,188 --> 00:49:02,522 it happening to begin with?