Speaker: 00:00:00

We put time on everything.

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We put it on, newspapers, on checks.

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We even have it, like, on our computer

down in the bottom.

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There's this little time and date, why?

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But we just.

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We're paranoid about, about time.

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And and part of that

is just the busyness of, of our lives.

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Somebody said that the United States

is the only country in the world

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that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore,

because we're always

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we're always rushing somewhere.

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Well, Merle Burkholder, it's a privilege

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to have you back on The Anabaptist

Perspectives podcast.

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a little about yourself.

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You've been in ministry for 45 or

so years.

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You've served in church leadership.

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You've done a fair amount of teaching

and traveling around in missions,

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things like that.

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There is a particularly poignant and

relevant topic we want to jump in today.

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And that's the topic of overload

and burnout.

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And I'm guessing you've had quite

a bit of experience with this

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in all those years of ministry and seen it

in a lot of different environments.

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feels like the more I look,

the more I see this in our people.

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People being overloaded or too busy or.

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Yeah, or burning out completely.

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So as we think of that topic, well,

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let's just jump right into it

and start with what is burnout?

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Let's get some definitions out there.

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Yeah, burnout is kind of a state

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of like emotional and physical exhaustion

that just comes from poorly managed

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stress in life

and in the workplace, primarily.

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But, yeah,

it gets at the point where you just

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have no energy and feel totally depleted

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and everything becomes a crisis.

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yeah.

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So a statement I've heard quite a bit.

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I'm sure we all have, but, is, this,

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to quote, it's

better to burn out than to rust out.

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analyze this. Is that a true statement?

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Well, either way, you're out.

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So whether you burn out or rust out,

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and the goal is to stay in

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and to be the living, be living life

in a way that's sustainable.

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And to recognize on one hand,

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this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

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And I need to pace myself

so that I can be,

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so my life is sustainable, and what I'm

doing is sustainable for the long haul.

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But on the second, on the other hand,

it is a it is a race.

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And I need to get engaged

and I, I'm not and I'm not a spectator.

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I'm not sitting on the sidelines.

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so I need to get involved, but

I need to be it needs to be sustainable.

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Well, so I just wonder

then why do we say statements like that?

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Because it seems,

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why what's the word just

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disingenuous or not well articulated

or well thought out

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to, to say that because it feels,

oh it's better to burn out than rust out.

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That's putting a lot of pressure

on people, is it not?

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it's it justifies our busyness

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and, and, and the pace of our lives.

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And so it's an excuse To be overly busy.

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And part of the problem is that we live

in a society where busyness is.

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valued, and there's

a lot of social pressure to be busy.

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And you think about it, when we meet

someone, we’ll often say,

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so, how's things going?

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And or, you know,

have things been really busy and, oh yeah.

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It's crazy.

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You wouldn't believe how busy it is.

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And, and

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and I don't know when the last time was

that I asked somebody,

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so have you been busy?

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And they're like, no, I'm not. Not really.

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That's it. That is a good point.

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I don't know if that's ever happened

to me, actually.

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And so there's this pressure to well,

I need to at least appear to be busy.

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And so even if life is manageable,

we still feel pressure to say,

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oh, yeah, it's just busy.

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we're really busy.

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And, and so that

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that, thing of, well, I'd rather burn out

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then rust out is kind of a justification

for that.

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For that busyness.

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And, and then we accept responsibilities

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and we accept things because we feel like,

well, we ought to be busy.

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And it's it's

the right thing to be really busy.

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And if I'm not busy,

maybe that's not good.

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And, and so there's this pressure

to be to be busy.

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And we live in a fast paced

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society where,

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we don't we don't do rest very well.

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and we don't even maybe know how to

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we maybe don't even know how to rest,

because we're just

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we're so time pressured

and so time conscious,

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and our culture is like,

everything is time based, and

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and we're paranoid about being somewhere

without when we don't know what time

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it is.

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Like everything that moves by the clock

and it's, it's,

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We put time on everything.

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We put it on,

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newspapers, on checks.

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We even have it, like, on our computer

down in the bottom.

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There's this little time and date, why?

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But we just.

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We're paranoid about About time.

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And and part of that

is just the busyness of, of our lives.

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Somebody said that the United States

is the only country in the world

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that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore,

because we're always

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we're always rushing somewhere.

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That's pretty good.

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I've never heard that one before.

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to write that

down. That's pretty good.

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So, can we get into

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a little of that of of just why,

like this performance,

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this pressure emphasis

and then how how does that intersect

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with the topic at hand,

which is overload and burnout.

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and, you know, I'll kind of

let you take this where you will.

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This is a big topic.

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So it's kind of hard to know

where do we even break into this.

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Well, there is some value in pressure and.

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and a certain amount of pressure

can increase performance. And

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and some people are really,

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I mean, they,

they almost need pressure to function.

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They so, so some pressure is good and,

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and our goal isn't to totally remove

stress

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and pressure from our lives,

but it's to keep it

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at a sustainable, level.

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And not everybody has the same tolerance

for pressure.

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And, and as we look at people

that just seem like they get so much done,

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they're just always doing something

and they're amazing, and

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but maybe that's not me,

and maybe it's okay.

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I don't have to be living life

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at the pace of the most energetic person

I know.

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I, I need to know what's sustainable

for me and what I can do.

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And and have a pace

that that is sustainable

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for, for me in, in my life.

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And one of the things

that I found helpful for me is,

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we often think about the different things

commitments we have in life, like we have

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our commitment to God, we have our family,

we have our work or our ministry.

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And then there's other things in life

and we say, well, God is most important.

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And then number two is my family.

And number three is work.

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And but then work seems to take up

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so much more time

than maybe some of the other things.

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And, and so how does that all work.

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And, and I think the way

I like to think about it is not so much,

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a list of a one, two, three list,

but a pie graph.

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And my life, I have slices of my life for

different things, and I have the slice.

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Or I'm working on my relationship

with God and I'm fellowshipping with him.

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I have the slice

for my family. I have a slice

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for ministry,

and I may have different ministries

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that I'm involved with,

and each one of them has a a slice

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and when I'm in that slice,

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that is my number one priority.

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And I want to be fully present

in that slice.

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Because one of the things that happens is

we have three or 4 or 5 things going on

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in different areas of our life,

and we're in this moment,

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but we're thinking we have these wheels

turning about 3 or 4 other things.

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And so we're only half of our attention

is here, and our energy is being drained

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by these other things that we know

we need to do, or that we

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something's gonna have to be done about.

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We can't do anything about it right now,

but some of our mental energy

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and emotional energy

is going into those things,

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rather than being fully present

in the moment where we are.

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And there's a great little, pamphlet

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by Charles

Hummel called The Tyranny of the urgent,

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and he talks about how Jesus,

you never get this,

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you never get the feeling

that Jesus was in a hurry like he doesn't.

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You don't.

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We don't read about him

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telling the disciples,

come on, pick up the pace here

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a little bit, like we are going

to get to Bethlehem or whatever.

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Like it's just,

no they're walking around and

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and then he'd have these interruptions

and people would say, like the blind man's

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calling to him and saying,

Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me.

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And he's on his way

to, from Jericho to Jerusalem and.

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and yet he he he pauses in that moment,

and that blind man

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gets his full attention

just just for a bit.

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But he's fully present

right there in that moment.

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And then he goes on to

what else he's been doing.

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And I just think,

and at the end of Jesus life,

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he said to the father, I finished the work

that you gave me to do.

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There were still lots of blind people.

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There were still lots of people

that hadn't

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didn't believe that he was the Messiah.

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But somehow he had the confidence

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that I've finished the work

that you gave me to do.

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And being able to discern,

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what is it that God wants me to do?

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Because not every opportunity is a call.

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there are things that need to be done,

but someone else needs to do it.

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And to recognize I could do it.

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But being discerning,

is this something that God wants me to do?

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And and that's a challenge too,

because today

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we have so many opportunities and there's

so many things that need to be done.

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But just sensing that

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these are

the things that I am responsible,

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these are the responsibilities

I've accepted.

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And when I'm in that moment,

to be fully present there

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and engage in that,

let the other things go for now and,

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and just be fully present

right here in this moment.

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so let's let's jump into a bit

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more on the definitions

then of overload and and burnout.

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Could you describe maybe

a bit of the difference between those two.

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How do we see this in ourselves

if we know.

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Oh okay.

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I'm getting close here to

to overloading myself or to burning out.

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yeah. Give us some specifics there.

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Well, having too many

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commitments

and having said yes to too many things

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and recognizing I'm not doing well

with some of my commitments, I'm

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not I'm not really following through.

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And I forget things.

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I disappoint people,

I tend to be an optimistic person.

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So when somebody says to me,

could you do this?

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I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll do that.

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and then I have so many other things

going, I forget about it.

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And they're expecting me to do that.

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And then two weeks later, a month later,

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I find out that, yeah, I forgot that.

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And and when those things start to happen,

like, there was a time

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where I realized

that I was doing that too much and

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I had to, start

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saying,

you know, I, I need to stop saying yes.

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I can't do everything that I think I can

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and I need to be,

and I need to start keeping

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track of the commitments I have

and things that I told people I'll do that

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I need to write those down,

because otherwise I'm going to forget them

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and I'm going to disappoint people and

and then I'm going to be frustrated myself

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because I, I have these things

that I committed to do.

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And so part of it

is just recognizing the commitments I have

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and, and, knowing when I have enough.

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And because when I say yes to something,

I'm saying no to something else.

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And so recognizing that,

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here's an opportunity.

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But if I say yes, I'll do that,

that means where is that going to come in

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my whole pie graph of my responsibilities,

do I have room for another slice?

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And if I put another slice in there,

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it has to come

from one of the existing slices.

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So where is it going to come from?

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And what am I going to do less of

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if I'm if I'm going to be able to do this

and sometimes what often happens is

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we respond to the

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urgent things,

rather the important things.

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And then the things

that are really important are the one.

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That's where the, the,

the time for the urgent comes from.

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So then it's our time with God.

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It's our time with our family, it's sleep.

245

00:13:11,165 --> 00:13:15,044

And and then we get our relationships

suffer.

246

00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:18,464

We're not drawing strength from Christ,

247

00:13:18,714 --> 00:13:22,593

and we're lacking sleep and things start.

248

00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:24,303

Then things just start to look

249

00:13:24,303 --> 00:13:27,723

pretty bleak and pretty dark

because our relationships aren't healthy.

250

00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:32,311

We're tired

and I don't know about you, but for me,

251

00:13:33,187 --> 00:13:36,357

I need about eight hours of sleep

to be a functional person.

252

00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:41,570

And if I start operating on about six

hours of sleep, I lose my sense of humor.

253

00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:44,031

And I'm not a very nice person

to be around.

254

00:13:44,031 --> 00:13:48,702

And so I just need I need sleep and

and we have to recognize that.

255

00:13:48,828 --> 00:13:50,496

But if I make too many commitments

256

00:13:51,539 --> 00:13:54,583

and I start cutting out sleep,

257

00:13:54,583 --> 00:13:57,586

or I start cutting out my relationship

with God, then

258

00:13:58,587 --> 00:14:00,297

I run out of energy

259

00:14:00,297 --> 00:14:03,551

and and then everything starts to suffer.

260

00:14:03,551 --> 00:14:06,554

And I can't do anything well.

261

00:14:06,929 --> 00:14:08,722

So let's say

262

00:14:08,722 --> 00:14:13,769

we're in this situation

and too much pressure schedules two full.

263

00:14:13,769 --> 00:14:16,397

We've overcommitted. We've said yes

too many times.

264

00:14:16,397 --> 00:14:20,067

What are some initial steps

in dealing with burnout and overload.

265

00:14:20,818 --> 00:14:24,071

Well,

the first thing is to recognize where I am

266

00:14:24,446 --> 00:14:27,116

and that, I am,

267

00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:31,453

I'm in trouble

and where I'm at, it's not sustainable.

268

00:14:31,579 --> 00:14:33,372

I'm not going to be able

to keep doing this.

269

00:14:33,372 --> 00:14:36,375

something has to change. And,

270

00:14:37,001 --> 00:14:39,253

and what's going to change?

271

00:14:39,253 --> 00:14:42,256

And then to begin to

272

00:14:42,339 --> 00:14:46,802

to do some cleanup and look at, okay,

there're commitments.

273

00:14:46,802 --> 00:14:48,137

I made that

274

00:14:49,346 --> 00:14:51,557

I'm not going to be able to fulfill.

275

00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:56,061

And so looking at can some of those

be passed off to other people.

276

00:14:56,604 --> 00:14:58,439

Is there delegation I can do.

277

00:14:58,439 --> 00:14:59,690

Are there people that I can ask?

278

00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:02,443

to pick up some of these responsibilities?

279

00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,904

are there people that could help?

280

00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:08,198

are there some things

and just in an orderly way,

281

00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:12,870

getting out of some of the commitments

that I've made and and being able

282

00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:16,081

to say to people, I said I would do this,

I have a commitment to do this. But,

283

00:15:17,082 --> 00:15:20,753

in all reality,

I won't be able to do it, long term.

284

00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:23,297

And I need something has to change.

285

00:15:23,297 --> 00:15:27,885

And so we begin to take steps

to either get help

286

00:15:28,969 --> 00:15:32,389

or step out of some responsibilities or,

287

00:15:33,432 --> 00:15:35,476

how can

288

00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:38,562

I how can I develop myself

so that I can do these things?

289

00:15:38,562 --> 00:15:40,439

What are things that I like?

290

00:15:40,439 --> 00:15:41,607

What resources do I need?

291

00:15:41,607 --> 00:15:46,403

What would help me, to be able

to to make this sustainable?

292

00:15:46,403 --> 00:15:47,905

How can I do that?

293

00:15:47,905 --> 00:15:51,116

Because it's kind of like,

if you're in financial trouble,

294

00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:55,371

if you're spending more money than what

you're earning, you have two options.

295

00:15:55,371 --> 00:15:58,332

You can cut your spending

or you can increase your income.

296

00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:01,251

And the same is true

with meeting our commitments.

297

00:16:01,251 --> 00:16:05,589

We can either increase our income,

our resources,

298

00:16:05,589 --> 00:16:08,592

what's coming into our lives

so we have more to give,

299

00:16:08,592 --> 00:16:10,469

or we can cut out our commitments.

300

00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:15,808

And,

one of the things that I found was that,

301

00:16:17,184 --> 00:16:20,229

the more

responsibility I had in leadership,

302

00:16:21,146 --> 00:16:25,609

the more I needed time with, with God.

303

00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:28,195

So as I

304

00:16:28,195 --> 00:16:31,198

got more responsibility in leadership,

305

00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,243

I needed to have, a regular

306

00:16:34,451 --> 00:16:37,162

extended time of prayer,

307

00:16:37,162 --> 00:16:40,457

like a day of prayer

so that I was spending like eight hours

308

00:16:41,625 --> 00:16:45,963

with God and just kind of worship and,

309

00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:50,259

and, and rest and,

310

00:16:51,343 --> 00:16:55,014

and extended going through my prayer lists

and all of

311

00:16:55,014 --> 00:17:00,477

and one of the things that I would do

would be to, create a worry list.

312

00:17:00,477 --> 00:17:04,106

And you think,

well I don't need a worry list, but but,

313

00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:07,192

you know,

the problem is that there's things that.

314

00:17:08,235 --> 00:17:09,570

Okay, so you're driving.

315

00:17:09,570 --> 00:17:12,614

I'm driving somewhere, I'm

taking a shower, and then I think about,

316

00:17:12,656 --> 00:17:14,158

I need to do this.

317

00:17:14,158 --> 00:17:15,743

I need to do that. All these things.

318

00:17:15,743 --> 00:17:19,830

But I can't do anything about it right

then, because I might not even be able

319

00:17:19,830 --> 00:17:23,667

to make a note of it

because I'm driving, I'm showering, and.

320

00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:27,129

But it's there,

and it's it's taking energy.

321

00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:30,174

And so when I would create a worry

list, I'd get down

322

00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:33,302

all the things that I worry about,

all the things that I think about.

323

00:17:33,927 --> 00:17:37,347

And then I'd go through the worry list

and I think, okay, what do I need?

324

00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:39,850

Is there something I need to do?

Is there something I can do?

325

00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,268

There's something I should do about this,

326

00:17:41,268 --> 00:17:43,437

and if it is, then I put that on a

to do list.

327

00:17:43,437 --> 00:17:45,773

If it was something

that I can't do anything about,

328

00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:48,400

it would go on a prayer list.

329

00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,361

And so then I'd come out of that

with here's my to do list,

330

00:17:51,361 --> 00:17:53,489

here's my prayer list.

331

00:17:53,489 --> 00:17:55,908

Another thing I would do

is I'd put my schedule before the Lord

332

00:17:55,908 --> 00:18:00,204

and say, what thoughts do

you have on the next month of my life?

333

00:18:00,204 --> 00:18:02,790

And are there

things that need to be put on my schedule?

334

00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:05,167

Are there things that should be taken off?

335

00:18:05,167 --> 00:18:08,879

And that really helped me

just to get grounded

336

00:18:09,546 --> 00:18:13,258

and to get a sense of direction for.

337

00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:17,763

And so maybe it's

getting more more resources

338

00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:22,101

and getting more being more intentional

and finding ways of getting more

339

00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:26,105

direction from God

on what he thinks about my schedule,

340

00:18:26,146 --> 00:18:29,691

my commitments,

and some of that can help us then to be,

341

00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,655

to be able

to function and make it more sustainable.

342

00:18:34,655 --> 00:18:38,909

and one of the things you, you mentioned

there hinted at.

343

00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:42,454

That resonates with me is this sense of,

344

00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:46,083

I created this situation. So like, if.

345

00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:48,377

If I have a lot of overload in my life,

346

00:18:48,377 --> 00:18:51,964

acknowledging

or taking ownership of that and saying I.

347

00:18:52,005 --> 00:18:56,009

I mean, I did say yes to all these things

and this is kind of my fault.

348

00:18:56,009 --> 00:18:59,555

It feels like that's a pretty important

first step, because until you acknowledge

349

00:18:59,555 --> 00:19:04,601

that, I'm guessing it'd be easy to just

say, well, this is everybody else's fault.

350

00:19:04,601 --> 00:19:07,563

Who's giving me all this stuff to do

and I can't keep up.

351

00:19:07,563 --> 00:19:10,065

Is that a

is that a reasonable assessment there?

352

00:19:10,065 --> 00:19:11,316

it is. Yeah.

353

00:19:11,316 --> 00:19:15,070

And recognizing that, yeah,

I'm responsible for this. And

354

00:19:16,613 --> 00:19:19,616

I accepted those responsibilities.

355

00:19:19,783 --> 00:19:22,744

And especially in,

356

00:19:22,744 --> 00:19:25,747

you know, an organization,

357

00:19:26,290 --> 00:19:29,543

people tend to push

they want to push things up

358

00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:33,797

because they don't want to be responsible

for the decisions they'll tend to get.

359

00:19:33,797 --> 00:19:35,340

If they can get you to sign off on it,

360

00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:38,969

then it's like, well, you know, Reagan

said, this is what we should do.

361

00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:42,014

And to resist that, that

362

00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:45,475

pressure and say, well,

you decide like it doesn't.

363

00:19:45,601 --> 00:19:46,894

I don't think it matters that much.

364

00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:52,441

You make a decision and and so then

you don't have to you can keep things.

365

00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:55,694

You can push things down

to where decisions are made

366

00:19:55,694 --> 00:19:58,697

at, at as low a level as possible.

367

00:19:58,906 --> 00:20:01,992

And that can really help

to take the pressure off of,

368

00:20:02,701 --> 00:20:05,037

someone in leadership.

369

00:20:05,037 --> 00:20:09,333

So if we're in this situation

what's the recovery looking like.

370

00:20:09,374 --> 00:20:12,377

You've already mentioned a couple things

like growing to be able to

371

00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:14,713

actually try and remember the terminology

you used.

372

00:20:14,713 --> 00:20:16,798

But basically expanding the capacity

373

00:20:16,798 --> 00:20:20,010

that's an option or this sense of pruning

cutting things back.

374

00:20:20,719 --> 00:20:24,181

Give us some more things on

on either of those or other points

375

00:20:24,181 --> 00:20:28,644

on recovery, getting out of this slump of,

say, burnout or overload.

376

00:20:29,102 --> 00:20:30,562

well, it's knowing your limits.

377

00:20:30,562 --> 00:20:33,607

And,

378

00:20:33,607 --> 00:20:37,819

knowing what you can do

and what, what you can't do and,

379

00:20:37,819 --> 00:20:43,700

and setting healthy boundaries,

being able to say, no, I'm not going.

380

00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:46,536

This is, this is how many

381

00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,706

trips I'm going to do in a

382

00:20:49,706 --> 00:20:54,962

year, in a month, or, and putting limits

383

00:20:54,962 --> 00:21:00,467

on setting some boundaries on commitments

that that we make.

384

00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:04,721

And I'm not going to take an assignment

that takes a week of my time,

385

00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:08,892

because I just don't have that week

to, to give.

386

00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:11,895

And so having some boundaries

387

00:21:12,104 --> 00:21:15,107

and then accountability for,

388

00:21:16,566 --> 00:21:19,319

for our schedules and,

389

00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:23,156

having other people that.

390

00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,203

Know what we're committing to

and maybe having,

391

00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:32,332

especially if we're struggling

to have some people that we say, I'm

392

00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:35,335

not going to accept any new commitments

unless

393

00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:38,547

that person or these people agree

394

00:21:39,047 --> 00:21:40,090

that I can do that.

395

00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:42,592

because

396

00:21:42,592 --> 00:21:45,012

people that are overloaded,

397

00:21:45,012 --> 00:21:48,557

people that are, often people

that are overloaded

398

00:21:48,557 --> 00:21:51,768

or experienced burnout

is they tend to be repeat offenders.

399

00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:55,480

So you can clean up

and then you just kind of slide back in.

400

00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:58,942

Three years later,

five years later, you're back to the same,

401

00:21:59,943 --> 00:22:00,402

the same

402

00:22:00,402 --> 00:22:03,405

scenario

where you just overcommitted again.

403

00:22:04,197 --> 00:22:07,200

and so having somebody

to help to keep that from happening

404

00:22:07,492 --> 00:22:10,120

and where

405

00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,789

and it's, it can be, it can be frustrating

406

00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:17,210

and relieving to have somebody else

sign off on your commitments.

407

00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:21,173

Because first of all,

when somebody brings a request,

408

00:22:21,923 --> 00:22:24,885

you can say, well, I have to talk to

409

00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:25,677

my spouse.

410

00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:27,554

I have to talk to my board.

411

00:22:27,554 --> 00:22:30,766

I have to talk to our church

leadership team or whatever.

412

00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:35,395

And, and

and that takes the pressure off of,

413

00:22:35,395 --> 00:22:39,399

the moment making the decision

in the moment, because you can put it off.

414

00:22:39,858 --> 00:22:42,694

And maybe after

you think about it for a week,

415

00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:44,946

it doesn't seem as as,

416

00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:48,200

desirable

or as urgent as it did in the moment.

417

00:22:48,742 --> 00:22:54,414

And and also, if the people you have

helping you make decisions, say, no,

418

00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:56,875

you can go back and say, well, no, I,

419

00:22:56,875 --> 00:22:59,836

my team doesn't think I should do that or

420

00:23:00,670 --> 00:23:03,256

Whatever

it takes the personal part out of it.

421

00:23:03,256 --> 00:23:06,134

It can also be frustrating

because there are things

422

00:23:06,134 --> 00:23:09,513

you really want to do that

people think, no, you shouldn't do that.

423

00:23:09,513 --> 00:23:15,143

And you feel restricted

because you really would like to do that.

424

00:23:15,143 --> 00:23:19,022

But but other people recognize,

no, you you can't.

425

00:23:20,357 --> 00:23:22,359

and there's,

426

00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,445

there's also someone told me one

time, there's, there's the principle of

427

00:23:25,445 --> 00:23:27,030

the distant elephant.

428

00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:32,202

So like when an elephant is way

across the savannah,

429

00:23:32,202 --> 00:23:35,205

it doesn't look very big

or very intimidating.

430

00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,458

But when an elephant gets within a car's

length of you,

431

00:23:38,458 --> 00:23:42,379

the ground is shaking

and it and it looks really dangerous.

432

00:23:43,004 --> 00:23:46,466

And we can make a commitment to something

that's two years down the road and say,

433

00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:47,884

oh, yeah, I'll do that.

434

00:23:47,884 --> 00:23:50,887

And yeah, two years

I can do that, or even next year.

435

00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:53,974

But then when it's like next week,

436

00:23:53,974 --> 00:23:56,768

all of a sudden it's like,

why did I say I would do that?

437

00:23:56,768 --> 00:24:00,313

I, I don't like I'm not

I don't have time to do that.

438

00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:01,648

I don't I'm not ready.

439

00:24:01,648 --> 00:24:04,109

And and it becomes really stressful.

440

00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:06,695

And so just sometimes

pausing and thinking,

441

00:24:06,695 --> 00:24:10,907

how am I going to feel about this

the week before I'm supposed to do it?

442

00:24:10,907 --> 00:24:13,076

It can be really helpful. And

443

00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:14,536

Think of

444

00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:17,539

it as that elephant's

not two years down the road, so to speak.

445

00:24:17,539 --> 00:24:19,249

It's pretend it's right.

446

00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:21,585

Yeah that's really good.

447

00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:24,671

yeah, I wrote that down.

That's a good one.

448

00:24:24,713 --> 00:24:27,466

Distant elephant.

449

00:24:27,466 --> 00:24:28,133

Yeah.

450

00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:30,677

But having,

451

00:24:30,677 --> 00:24:34,764

people around us

that know us well understand our schedules

452

00:24:35,098 --> 00:24:38,059

and can be very honest with us and say,

I, don't think

453

00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:41,062

you should take all this on or,

hey, your schedules looking a little full.

454

00:24:41,271 --> 00:24:43,273

Wow, that seems like some real wisdom

there.

455

00:24:43,273 --> 00:24:46,818

But also, I'm guessing that's going

to be really hard for a lot of people

456

00:24:47,194 --> 00:24:50,197

to have that level of accountability.

Yeah.

457

00:24:50,405 --> 00:24:53,575

and some of that is just a result

of being optimistic.

458

00:24:54,075 --> 00:24:57,078

And, know, an optimistic person can easily

459

00:24:57,245 --> 00:25:00,248

just over commit to thinking, well,

I can do.

460

00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:00,790

Sure.

461

00:25:00,790 --> 00:25:02,083

And they think, you know,

462

00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:03,585

or we think as optimistic people,

463

00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:06,046

we think we can do a lot more

than we actually can.

464

00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:10,050

And or we hope we can,

and then we get overcommitted and,

465

00:25:10,383 --> 00:25:15,138

and just recognizing that,

just recognizing that about myself

466

00:25:15,639 --> 00:25:20,685

and saying I am an optimistic person,

I think I can do more than I can.

467

00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:21,728

And that's true.

468

00:25:21,728 --> 00:25:24,731

That and recognizing that that's true

469

00:25:25,106 --> 00:25:29,236

can help me to say, yeah, in my mind

I think I can, but actually, I,

470

00:25:29,444 --> 00:25:34,533

I probably shouldn't, or actually,

maybe I can't and I'm going to I'm going

471

00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:38,912

to disappoint others and, and disappoint

actually be disappointed myself.

472

00:25:40,497 --> 00:25:42,916

So one of the things you talk about,

473

00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,253

is this Elijah model.

474

00:25:46,503 --> 00:25:48,964

in part of this process of recovery.

475

00:25:48,964 --> 00:25:50,882

Tell us what that is.

476

00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:52,050

Well, I think about Elijah.

477

00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:53,843

He had this great victory.

478

00:25:53,843 --> 00:25:57,389

And and I think that Elijah really thought

that, okay,

479

00:25:57,389 --> 00:26:01,935

the prophets of Baal are all gone

and and he has this thing with Ahab.

480

00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:03,478

The people decided to follow God.

481

00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:06,773

So he's going to be like a counselor

to the king, and

482

00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:08,733

and everything's going to be great.

483

00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:10,819

And then the opposite happens.

484

00:26:10,819 --> 00:26:12,362

And his life is threatened.

485

00:26:12,362 --> 00:26:15,532

And he, he had this great,

486

00:26:18,868 --> 00:26:21,663

thing

that he did that took a lot of energy.

487

00:26:21,663 --> 00:26:25,917

And it was, was,

a very intense experience.

488

00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:29,379

And then he runs away and.

489

00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:32,591

he ends up

sleeping under a tree and wishing

490

00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:38,597

he who could die

and and and God sent an angel.

491

00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:41,850

And and at that point, God didn't ask him.

492

00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:43,560

What are you doing here?

493

00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,563

The the angel was like, here, this.

494

00:26:46,730 --> 00:26:48,023

Yeah. The journey's too great for you.

495

00:26:48,023 --> 00:26:50,483

Here's something to eat. Sleep.

496

00:26:50,483 --> 00:26:53,528

comes back and and,

497

00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:56,531

then he goes on

and he goes way down in the southern

498

00:26:57,574 --> 00:27:02,078

part of Sinai and goes in a cave and and,

there

499

00:27:02,203 --> 00:27:07,208

he’s in, in isolation and, and, you know,

sometimes we just need to

500

00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,838

we need that withdrawal

and we need to just

501

00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:15,425

step back from everything,

and we just need to sleep and eat and

502

00:27:15,967 --> 00:27:18,637

and rest and, and I find especially after

503

00:27:18,637 --> 00:27:22,682

really intense experiences and I find like

if I do an international trip

504

00:27:23,224 --> 00:27:28,980

and I'm in a place where things are

really in chaos and it's just really is

505

00:27:29,022 --> 00:27:33,109

may even be dangerous, but it's just

people are in abject poverty

506

00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:37,656

and there's just it's I mean, it's just,

you can't hardly comprehend

507

00:27:38,073 --> 00:27:42,952

what life is like for those people,

and, and you feel drawn to

508

00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:45,413

what's happening there and

509

00:27:45,413 --> 00:27:49,084

then and I come home Like,

how do I even process that?

510

00:27:49,459 --> 00:27:52,545

And I just need time to

511

00:27:53,129 --> 00:27:56,216

to think and time to rest and

512

00:27:56,591 --> 00:27:59,552

and sleep and, and

513

00:28:00,303 --> 00:28:03,306

and kind of allow myself to

514

00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,310

think over what I, what I’ve

experienced and process that.

515

00:28:07,602 --> 00:28:10,689

and so that period of time

516

00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:14,651

is important

before I engage with my normal life

517

00:28:14,651 --> 00:28:18,530

and the issues that I face,

518

00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:21,783

every day in, in my normal routine.

519

00:28:22,492 --> 00:28:25,245

But that period of, resting

520

00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:28,206

in and reflection

521

00:28:28,289 --> 00:28:32,877

is, is healthy and in getting ready

now I'm ready to go and I can engage

522

00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:36,631

with the things that I, I normally face

when I'm, when I'm at home.

523

00:28:37,173 --> 00:28:41,344

But then God came to Elijah in the cave,

and kind of his question

524

00:28:41,344 --> 00:28:44,347

then to Elijah is,

what are you doing here?

525

00:28:44,681 --> 00:28:46,850

there's a time to come out of that.

526

00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:50,395

And if we stay there,

if we just say, okay, I'm done, I'm

527

00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:52,689

I'm withdrawing.

528

00:28:52,689 --> 00:28:55,316

And, God doesn't want us to stay there.

529

00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:55,608

And he

530

00:28:55,608 --> 00:28:59,654

he calls Elijah out and he say, well,

I'm going to give you Elisha as a helper.

531

00:28:59,654 --> 00:29:02,490

And and here's some things you should do.

532

00:29:02,490 --> 00:29:03,742

And you're not alone.

533

00:29:03,742 --> 00:29:08,913

There's still 7000 people

that haven't, bowed the knee to Baal.

534

00:29:08,913 --> 00:29:11,499

And so, no, you're not the only one.

535

00:29:11,499 --> 00:29:14,461

You're what you're thinking,

isn't really quite right.

536

00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:16,504

And God calls us out.

537

00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:19,382

Get get reengaged, get going.

538

00:29:19,382 --> 00:29:25,054

But just that, that sequence of,

sleeping and and eating and retreating

539

00:29:25,054 --> 00:29:29,309

and talking about what's the reality is

and then getting some help

540

00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:32,312

and and going on.

541

00:29:33,104 --> 00:29:36,107

there's that it it seems to me,

542

00:29:36,107 --> 00:29:39,110

taking that recovery phase,

I guess you could call it a

543

00:29:39,235 --> 00:29:40,779

or recovery period,

544

00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:44,783

this is going to be really hard

if our lives are so busy and schedules

545

00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:49,078

just too full, you won't even have a block

in the schedule to take that time.

546

00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:53,458

But then there's the like you're saying

the other side where Elijah has

547

00:29:53,583 --> 00:29:57,170

he does have to eventually leave

that cave and go back in.

548

00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:58,338

So it's like you have this

549

00:29:58,338 --> 00:30:01,966

time of recovery

and then a time of returning to the task.

550

00:30:01,966 --> 00:30:04,385

Is that a proper way of thinking about it?

551

00:30:04,385 --> 00:30:04,719

Yeah.

552

00:30:04,719 --> 00:30:09,974

And I think what happens is,

so if I'm on a trip and people are needing

553

00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:15,313

things from me, I can say, well,

I'm getting home Friday evening,

554

00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:17,649

Friday night or Saturday morning.

555

00:30:17,649 --> 00:30:20,026

I will, I'll take care of that.

556

00:30:20,026 --> 00:30:21,528

I'll do that.

557

00:30:21,528 --> 00:30:24,864

Well, then I get home,

and now I have this list of things

558

00:30:24,864 --> 00:30:27,158

that I promised people

I would do that evening

559

00:30:27,158 --> 00:30:30,620

or the next morning,

and I don't feel like it.

560

00:30:30,995 --> 00:30:32,789

okay.

561

00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:37,794

I just, I need a, I need a so I can say,

well, I'm getting home Friday night.

562

00:30:37,794 --> 00:30:41,089

Monday morning I will I'll do that.

563

00:30:41,297 --> 00:30:42,632

People can wait two days.

564

00:30:42,632 --> 00:30:45,468

It's not most things aren't going to...

565

00:30:45,468 --> 00:30:49,514

If they can wait till Friday

they can wait till Monday.

566

00:30:49,514 --> 00:30:50,890

Probably.

567

00:30:50,890 --> 00:30:54,936

And so just creating that space,

being intentional

568

00:30:55,728 --> 00:30:58,523

about creating a day or two

569

00:30:58,523 --> 00:31:00,441

where I can,

570

00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:04,112

go through the whole thing

of, of, recovery

571

00:31:04,112 --> 00:31:08,533

and then getting myself ready to, okay,

now I'm ready to come out of the cave and,

572

00:31:09,742 --> 00:31:12,745

and engage with life again.

573

00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:18,084

So with that recovery process

and getting ourselves back on our feet,

574

00:31:18,418 --> 00:31:22,297

as it were, I think you have a list

of practical things.

575

00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:26,134

You know, some keys that we can utilize

and and implement into our lives.

576

00:31:26,134 --> 00:31:28,386

Do you want to tell us what those are?

577

00:31:28,386 --> 00:31:30,763

Yeah. first of all, we need sleep.

578

00:31:30,763 --> 00:31:34,684

And like we talked about already,

we need to know what

579

00:31:35,268 --> 00:31:39,272

how much sleep we need to be functional

and for life to be sustainable.

580

00:31:39,272 --> 00:31:43,776

So we do need sleep,

and we can't cut out, too much sleep.

581

00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:46,154

Secondly, we need Sabbath rest.

582

00:31:46,154 --> 00:31:51,451

we can't go seven days a week.

583

00:31:51,451 --> 00:31:54,329

You just can't be on duty 24/7.

584

00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:56,164

It just doesn't doesn't work.

585

00:31:56,164 --> 00:32:00,126

And so we need those days of of rest.

586

00:32:00,418 --> 00:32:04,213

I knew, a contractor that,

587

00:32:06,841 --> 00:32:08,426

he was an excavator and

588

00:32:08,426 --> 00:32:12,305

and one time he,

we had ordered a load of gravel,

589

00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:15,725

and he brought a load of gravel

on Sunday morning, and I was like,

590

00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:19,354

I said to him the next week,

I said, listen,

591

00:32:19,354 --> 00:32:20,146

I wasn't expecting you

592

00:32:20,146 --> 00:32:21,689

to bring that gravel on Sunday.

593

00:32:21,689 --> 00:32:26,277

Like, what about your your,

what about your weekend,

594

00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:28,029

and your day of rest.

He said, Oh, in the summertime?

595

00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:32,617

I don't, he said I it's one day in seven,

but I save them up.

596

00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:36,079

I work seven days a week over summer,

and then I take a week off

597

00:32:36,829 --> 00:32:38,289

After it starts snowing.

598

00:32:38,289 --> 00:32:40,208

And then those are my Sabbaths.

599

00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:41,459

it doesn't work that way.

600

00:32:41,459 --> 00:32:44,045

Like, that's not sustainable. Like it?

601

00:32:44,045 --> 00:32:47,048

It really is. We need regular, consistent.

602

00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:50,677

This is a day when I'm just I'm off duty

603

00:32:50,885 --> 00:32:53,888

and I'm really I really am at rest.

604

00:32:54,138 --> 00:32:58,309

and that can be hard for a person

605

00:32:58,309 --> 00:33:01,354

who is working

and then as a church leader.

606

00:33:01,354 --> 00:33:04,482

And so Sunday is a day

when you're engaging

607

00:33:04,482 --> 00:33:08,486

with people at church and you're speaking

or you have responsibilities.

608

00:33:09,654 --> 00:33:12,657

So to find where is that?

609

00:33:12,782 --> 00:33:15,410

Where is that day of of rest

610

00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:18,746

and where is the day

that I can really disconnect

611

00:33:18,913 --> 00:33:22,583

from my responsibilities

and have that, have that time of,

612

00:33:23,668 --> 00:33:24,335

of rest.

613

00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:26,713

And so that's important.

614

00:33:26,713 --> 00:33:27,880

And then we need friends.

615

00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,261

we need people that we just enjoy

being with socially and,

616

00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:36,264

there's no,

617

00:33:36,431 --> 00:33:39,851

there's no work responsibilities.

618

00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:41,936

They're not depending on us for anything.

619

00:33:41,936 --> 00:33:43,771

It's just we enjoy being with them.

620

00:33:43,771 --> 00:33:46,774

And, it's really just a social,

621

00:33:46,983 --> 00:33:52,113

a social relationship,

and and people that are, are with us.

622

00:33:52,113 --> 00:33:53,948

And then we need inward renewal.

623

00:33:53,948 --> 00:33:59,996

We need to like my days of prayer that

I had, time when I could just really get.

624

00:34:00,955 --> 00:34:03,958

in touch with what's

really going on in my in my heart

625

00:34:04,083 --> 00:34:07,128

and get with God and, and just be renewed,

626

00:34:07,962 --> 00:34:12,800

spiritually,

I read an account of a person that

627

00:34:13,634 --> 00:34:18,765

was experiencing burnout, and they went to

their mentor and said, I just

628

00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:20,725

like, I got nothing.

629

00:34:20,725 --> 00:34:21,893

I'm, I'm dry.

630

00:34:21,893 --> 00:34:24,937

I'm I'm empty and the well's dry.

631

00:34:24,937 --> 00:34:27,565

I'm not getting anything out of the well.

632

00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:31,569

And their mentor told them, no,

the problem isn't the well is dry.

633

00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:35,281

The problem is your pipe is too short

and you need to be digging deeper.

634

00:34:35,281 --> 00:34:38,117

Like where are you at?

Where you're at in life now?

635

00:34:38,117 --> 00:34:41,996

What met your needs five years ago

isn't enough now.

636

00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:43,289

You need to go deeper now

637

00:34:43,289 --> 00:34:46,709

because you have more responsibility

you’re at a different stage of life.

638

00:34:47,376 --> 00:34:50,379

And you need to draw

from some deeper resources

639

00:34:50,505 --> 00:34:53,591

and so having that inward renewal

where we're really

640

00:34:55,218 --> 00:34:57,678

tapping into what we need

641

00:34:57,678 --> 00:35:02,642

for the responsibilities

and the place that we are in life.

642

00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:06,521

And then I think to be

beware of celebrity.

643

00:35:06,562 --> 00:35:10,066

Like there are people that would like

that think we're really great.

644

00:35:11,192 --> 00:35:12,068

And they put us, kind of put

645

00:35:12,068 --> 00:35:16,864

us up on a pedestal and, and,

we need to resist

646

00:35:17,907 --> 00:35:19,951

putting ourselves up there and feeling

647

00:35:19,951 --> 00:35:22,954

like we really are somebody special.

648

00:35:23,162 --> 00:35:25,248

because we're not

649

00:35:25,248 --> 00:35:27,875

as great as our fans think we are.

650

00:35:27,875 --> 00:35:31,379

And but neither are

we as bad as our critics think we are.

651

00:35:31,838 --> 00:35:34,841

And the problem is, if we,

652

00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:38,594

believe the praise of our fans,

653

00:35:38,970 --> 00:35:42,014

then we also have to believe

the criticism of our critics.

654

00:35:42,431 --> 00:35:45,434

And then we go from, you know, in wild,

655

00:35:46,727 --> 00:35:50,773

ups and downs because somebody

compliments us and we're like, oh, yeah.

656

00:35:50,773 --> 00:35:53,276

And then somebody criticizes us

and we're like, oh, I'm a failure.

657

00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:57,029

And and we go from 0 to 100

and then back down to zero.

658

00:35:57,029 --> 00:35:59,991

And, and the truth is actually somewhere

in between.

659

00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:02,618

We don't do everything wrong,

but we don't do everything right either.

660

00:36:02,618 --> 00:36:06,372

And, That celebrity status

661

00:36:06,372 --> 00:36:10,168

is something that I think

we just need to recognize.

662

00:36:10,668 --> 00:36:11,836

That's not really accurate.

663

00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:13,546

That's not really true. And

664

00:36:14,589 --> 00:36:15,256

so, yeah,

665

00:36:15,256 --> 00:36:18,885

maybe the way I live my life,

I've met a lot of people,

666

00:36:19,802 --> 00:36:23,014

but that doesn't make me a special person.

667

00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:26,017

That's just I just met a lot of people.

668

00:36:26,225 --> 00:36:29,228

And so it's like,

669

00:36:30,229 --> 00:36:32,148

there was man,

670

00:36:32,148 --> 00:36:35,443

that was the he was the,

president of Moody Bible Institute,

671

00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:39,697

and he said that, one time

his daughter asked him, dad are we famous?

672

00:36:40,072 --> 00:36:42,575

And he said, no, we're not famous.

673

00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:45,578

She said, well,

we would be if more people knew us.

674

00:36:46,078 --> 00:36:48,706

So fame is just a matter

of a lot of people?

675

00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:51,834

No, as it doesn't say anything

about our character or,

676

00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:55,213

it doesn't make us a special person.

677

00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,633

And then we need to remember that

678

00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:00,801

what we're doing,

the sacrifices we're making,

679

00:37:00,801 --> 00:37:02,678

and the energy we're spending,

it's worth it.

680

00:37:02,678 --> 00:37:04,847

It makes a difference.

681

00:37:04,847 --> 00:37:08,434

If it makes a difference for eternity,

it's it's worth what we're doing.

682

00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:11,520

And so now it

683

00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,358

it may seem like it's

taking a lot of energy and,

684

00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:18,819

but someday we're going to be grateful

for the way

685

00:37:18,819 --> 00:37:22,198

we spent our lives and the things that we

that we invested in.

686

00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,410

So part of it is about perspective

and having one eye on eternity

687

00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:32,041

and saying, someday

I'm going to be glad that this was done.

688

00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:35,044

And I don't know

that there's any way to avoid it, but

689

00:37:35,544 --> 00:37:38,130

I would hate to get into

that great multitude

690

00:37:38,130 --> 00:37:41,467

before the throne from every tribe

and language and nation and say,

691

00:37:42,009 --> 00:37:45,680

well, if I knew it was like this,

I would have done things differently.

692

00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,223

I would have lived my life differently

693

00:37:47,223 --> 00:37:50,309

and probably will all have some of

what we didn't know.

694

00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:54,522

It was like this,

but but still keeping one eye on eternity

695

00:37:55,147 --> 00:37:56,691

and saying it's worth the effort.

696

00:37:56,691 --> 00:37:59,610

It's it does make a difference. And

697

00:38:01,112 --> 00:38:01,445

I want

698

00:38:01,445 --> 00:38:04,448

to live my life in such a way

that when my life is over,

699

00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:07,952

there are people who will be

in that multitude before the throne,

700

00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:08,494

and there are people

701

00:38:08,494 --> 00:38:12,290

whose lives are better because of the way

I chose to live my life.

702

00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:15,293

So it it will be worth it.

703

00:38:15,793 --> 00:38:18,504

So when we look at those keys,

704

00:38:18,504 --> 00:38:21,507

we've talked about the

705

00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:24,468

definition of these things,

how we get these points

706

00:38:24,468 --> 00:38:28,180

of burnout and overload, and then some of

the practical ways of recovery, these,

707

00:38:28,431 --> 00:38:32,143

several practical keys

you've just given us.

708

00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:36,355

Let's back it out a bit and say

if we see someone else

709

00:38:36,355 --> 00:38:39,358

who's dealing with burnout or overload or.

710

00:38:39,567 --> 00:38:42,570

Yeah, is just overwhelmed,

how can we help them?

711

00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:45,823

What are what are ways

that we can pass this on to someone else?

712

00:38:46,949 --> 00:38:49,201

Well, we look for the signs

713

00:38:49,201 --> 00:38:53,289

of people that,

we may have responsibility for, people

714

00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:57,001

that report to us in an organization

or people

715

00:38:57,001 --> 00:39:00,004

in our church that,

716

00:39:00,588 --> 00:39:03,466

have too many commitments

that are complaining about

717

00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:06,469

being exhausted.

718

00:39:07,011 --> 00:39:10,264

that maybe aren't accomplishing

719

00:39:10,514 --> 00:39:11,766

their responsibilities,

720

00:39:11,766 --> 00:39:14,310

that things that are too many

things are falling through the cracks,

721

00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:19,148

and they're not really getting the things

done that, that they're, committed

722

00:39:20,441 --> 00:39:21,317

to doing.

723

00:39:21,317 --> 00:39:23,194

And then

724

00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:26,072

we just help people to recognize

where they're at.

725

00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:29,075

And, and before they get to the point

where

726

00:39:29,075 --> 00:39:32,078

they become unable to function,

727

00:39:32,286 --> 00:39:34,455

we help them to pass off

some responsibilities,

728

00:39:34,455 --> 00:39:39,502

find people who can help them, and,

and help them to deal with

729

00:39:39,794 --> 00:39:42,755

with the situation

that they find themselves in.

730

00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:47,968

And we can be also be involved

in their level of commitments

731

00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:51,764

and, and guard them from people

asking them to do things.

732

00:39:51,764 --> 00:39:55,684

And, and if you're talking about

who's going to do things

733

00:39:56,352 --> 00:39:59,105

and there's a new responsibility,

somebody needs to do something.

734

00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:02,024

And you know that a person is close to

to overload.

735

00:40:02,024 --> 00:40:04,985

You can and people suggest that, well,

maybe we should ask them.

736

00:40:04,985 --> 00:40:06,487

You can say no, let's not ask them.

737

00:40:06,487 --> 00:40:09,657

Like I think they're

I think they have enough already.

738

00:40:09,657 --> 00:40:11,659

And so we can redirect requests

739

00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:15,871

so that they're not faced

with, a request to do things.

740

00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:21,168

And, we can help to, so we can shield

them from, from those requests.

741

00:40:21,168 --> 00:40:23,879

And sometimes we can be

the person who says no for them.

742

00:40:23,879 --> 00:40:28,634

And, and

and we can be that person that they use

743

00:40:28,634 --> 00:40:35,307

as the accountability person

to to, process their, their requests and,

744

00:40:35,474 --> 00:40:39,270

and help them to discern if it's something

they really should do or not.

745

00:40:40,813 --> 00:40:42,898

So this

is you given us a lot to think about here.

746

00:40:42,898 --> 00:40:45,901

And as we bring this episode to a close.

747

00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:48,946

What's one thing

you'd like to leave with our audience?

748

00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:53,492

Well,

I think, as I spent time in leadership

749

00:40:53,492 --> 00:40:57,621

in a nonprofit organization,

I think one of the things that we did

750

00:40:57,788 --> 00:41:01,208

too much in

the past is we would bring people in

751

00:41:02,042 --> 00:41:05,421

for a two year term of service,

and we would kind of burn them out,

752

00:41:05,421 --> 00:41:07,339

use them up, send them back.

753

00:41:07,339 --> 00:41:10,968

We'd bring in another person,

we'd use them up and send them back

754

00:41:11,177 --> 00:41:15,347

and I really think that

in charitable organizations,

755

00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:18,601

I think we're doing better, but

756

00:41:18,601 --> 00:41:22,229

I think we need to be thinking more about

757

00:41:22,563 --> 00:41:25,566

if this person comes

and gives two years of their life

758

00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:29,820

in our organization,

how can we help them to leave

759

00:41:30,404 --> 00:41:32,865

a better person and be strengthened

760

00:41:32,865 --> 00:41:37,953

and go out

ready to serve in some other capacity

761

00:41:38,245 --> 00:41:43,542

or in some other place,

rather than having them go back

762

00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:46,670

just kind of burned out

and, and exhausted.

763

00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:49,965

And so making the experience one of,

764

00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:54,803

of strengthening of building up

and equipping for future service,

765

00:41:54,803 --> 00:41:59,600

even if person is only going to be with us

for two years, how can we nurture them

766

00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,563

and, and help them to be the person

that God wants them to be going forward?

767

00:42:04,563 --> 00:42:05,898

And I just think that practice

768

00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:10,277

of bring people in, burning them out

and sending them home,

769

00:42:10,277 --> 00:42:15,032

I think we need to rethink that

and and do it differently.

770

00:42:16,825 --> 00:42:17,993

And then for ourselves, I

771

00:42:17,993 --> 00:42:22,748

think just, really being intentional

about having a sustainable lifestyle

772

00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:26,293

and thinking about our commitments

and being careful that we're not

773

00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:30,172

overcommitting, being honest

with ourselves about what we can do

774

00:42:30,172 --> 00:42:31,090

and what we can't do.

775

00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:35,970

And and having God help us to discern

what calls are,

776

00:42:36,887 --> 00:42:39,515

are, yeah.

777

00:42:39,515 --> 00:42:42,685

What opportunities

are really a call from him for things that

778

00:42:42,977 --> 00:42:45,980

that we that we should do

779

00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:49,149

and my the, one of my basic

780

00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,987

Premises in life

is if that our default answer

781

00:42:53,654 --> 00:42:57,491

to God's call is yes, we're going

to get to do some pretty amazing things.

782

00:42:57,575 --> 00:43:02,997

but on the other side of that is

I can't say

783

00:43:02,997 --> 00:43:06,709

yes to everything that comes to me

is not a call from God.

784

00:43:07,084 --> 00:43:10,379

And, so I can't say yes to everything,

785

00:43:10,546 --> 00:43:14,258

but God does use people who are willing

and who say yes.

786

00:43:15,175 --> 00:43:18,762

That goes back to some of the early things

you were saying in the episode where

787

00:43:19,388 --> 00:43:22,391

if you've maxed the schedule out

completely and there's no room,

788

00:43:22,641 --> 00:43:25,185

and you filled it

with all these other things and then God

789

00:43:25,185 --> 00:43:30,232

comes and gives a call to you,

maybe you miss it because you're too busy.

790

00:43:30,232 --> 00:43:31,025

You don't even see it.

791

00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:34,737

And we also have to realize that

792

00:43:34,737 --> 00:43:37,865

when I say yes to one thing,

I'm saying no to something else.

793

00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:40,909

So it's like goes back to that whole pie

graph of,

794

00:43:41,243 --> 00:43:43,996

where's that slice going to come from?

795

00:43:43,996 --> 00:43:49,376

And so I'm saying no to something

and is what I'm saying yes to really

796

00:43:49,376 --> 00:43:53,797

what God wants me to do

rather than what I'm going to say No to

797

00:43:54,506 --> 00:43:59,553

That's a I think that's an excellent point

to end on, just really evaluating.

798

00:43:59,845 --> 00:44:01,597

You know,

everybody that’s listening to this.

799

00:44:01,597 --> 00:44:04,475

What are we saying yes to and

what are the things we're saying no to.

800

00:44:04,475 --> 00:44:06,935

And when we say yes to something

we say no to something else.

801

00:44:06,935 --> 00:44:08,729

That's a that's a really powerful point.

802

00:44:08,729 --> 00:44:11,148

Well,

thank you for coming on and sharing today.

803

00:44:11,148 --> 00:44:11,398

You’re Welcome.

804

00:44:12,733 --> 00:44:13,192

Thanks for

805

00:44:13,192 --> 00:44:16,195

listening to this episode

with Merle Burkholder.

806

00:44:16,362 --> 00:44:19,531

If you'd like to learn more

about the topic of burnout and overload,

807

00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:23,035

we did several episodes with Joel Yoder,

a number of years ago,

808

00:44:23,035 --> 00:44:26,038

and you can find those

in the description down below.

809

00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:29,333

As always, you can find all our content

on our website

810

00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:31,251

at anabaptistperspectives.org.

811

00:44:31,251 --> 00:44:34,254

And you can also sign up for our email

newsletter there.

812

00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:37,508

Thanks again for listening,

and we'll catch you in the next episode.

813

00:46:11,977 --> 00:46:13,771

We put time on everything.

814

00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:16,774

We put it on,

815

00:46:16,982 --> 00:46:18,567

newspapers, on checks.

816

00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:20,819

We even have it, like, on our computer

down in the bottom.

817

00:46:20,819 --> 00:46:23,572

There's this little time and date, why?

818

00:46:23,572 --> 00:46:25,073

But we just.

819

00:46:25,073 --> 00:46:28,076

We're paranoid about About time.

820

00:46:28,327 --> 00:46:31,997

And and part of that

is just the busyness of, of our lives.

821

00:46:32,247 --> 00:46:35,125

Somebody said that the United States

is the only country in the world

822

00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:38,796

that has a mountain named Mount Rushmore,

because we're always

823

00:46:39,171 --> 00:46:40,798

we're always rushing somewhere.

824

00:46:44,426 --> 00:46:47,429

And being able to discern,

825

00:46:48,472 --> 00:46:49,973

what is it that God wants me to do?

826

00:46:49,973 --> 00:46:52,976

Because not every opportunity is a call.

827

00:46:54,561 --> 00:46:57,731

there are things that need to be done,

but someone else needs to do it.

828

00:46:58,106 --> 00:47:01,109

And to recognize I could do it.

829

00:47:01,568 --> 00:47:05,072

But being discerning,

is this something that God wants me to do?

830

00:47:05,072 --> 00:47:08,075

And and that's a challenge

831

00:47:09,034 --> 00:47:11,161

And we also have to realize that

832

00:47:11,161 --> 00:47:14,289

when I say yes to one thing,

I'm saying no to something else.

833

00:47:14,289 --> 00:47:17,334

So it's like goes back to that whole pie

graph of,

834

00:47:17,668 --> 00:47:20,420

where's that slice going to come from?

835

00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:25,801

And so I'm saying no to something

and is what I'm saying yes to really

836

00:47:25,801 --> 00:47:30,222

what God wants me to do

rather than what I'm going to say No to

837

00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:48,300

We are all

838

00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,303

busy and seemingly getting busier

all the time.

839

00:48:51,303 --> 00:48:55,015

Overload and burnout are a natural

consequence of a lack of rest.

840

00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:57,351

How do we avoid burnout?

841

00:48:57,351 --> 00:49:01,188

And how can we see overload

coming in the future and avoid

842

00:49:01,188 --> 00:49:02,522

it happening to begin with?