This was a great question from a recent Unstuck Academy q and a,
asking about ventral bagel safety activation, and enforcing boundaries.
I wanted to share with you, and I'm really curious what you think about it.
Hey, I'm Justin since I'm a therapist and coach who helps you live more
calmly, confidently and connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This is of course not therapy and, uh, is not meant to replace therapy.
Oh, and I removed as much of the students' audio as I could, and I replaced it
with, uh, AI versions of their voices.
Can you discuss the importance of the ventral vagal safety
state in setting boundaries?
It seems there is a balance between safety but also flight and fight sympathetic?
Okay.
Boundaries with ventral vagal activation.
You're dead on with that.
When we enforce a boundary, there is some flight fight activation.
I would lean more toward the fight activation.
Not angry, not lashing out, not name calling.
That, I mean, yeah, that's, it's a boundary I suppose.
But that would be, uh, without or with less ventral, vagal activation.
And so ideally we wanna have as much grounding as much
anchoring and safety as we can.
I, I think it's totally okay for boundaries to come across as
strong, like a very clear, no.
A very strong, no.
Maybe even a raised voice, no if needed.
Some people situationally might need that.
So, but you, you could do that from a, a, a strong anchoring in your
ventral vagal state- safety state.
Right.
So ideally what kind of needs to happen is that we feel that activation.
In, in the moment, we feel that spike of whatever, it's, there's a
surge of wanting to get outta here.
And now it changed into some irritation that I, this person's not picking up
on my cues and they're stamping all- trampling all over my, uh, whatever my
boundary or my values or what, whatever.
So, probably once we get more to that, like fight activation, that's
where we would say, uh, put in some sort of like, I'm not okay with that.
Or flight activation could be, I hear you.
I don't need to be a part of this.
I'm gonna leave now.
So, but that does require that we, we feel and embrace it rather than f- feeling it
unconsciously and then reacting to it.
So we really have to have this like net to capture, metaphorically, to capture that
activation and inward, and it's hard in the moment, but in the moment we would say
to ourselves something like, it's there.
I have every right to feel this way, and I can, I can come from compassion.
That can come from assuming this person doesn't know any better maybe.
But all that takes a strong anchoring and safety state.
So ideally, when we're in these situations.
We would have familiarity with what the defensive activation feels like
in the first place, so that when it's there, it's not overwhelming.
Ideally, when we're in these situations, we'd already have a pretty good
amount of safety in our system because we've practiced feeling safety and so
having the right balance, those two things can equal noticing it, acting
on it, and forcing a boundary and following through with it as well.
Okay, so I don't think there's like, here's the answer to setting
a boundary in the moment when you're feeling it and you didn't expect it.
Like that's the hardest.
It's really comes, always, comes down to proactively practicing
these things ahead of time.
And I think that means proactively practicing safety, but also
proactively remembering, feeling into mentally rehearsing defense.
One of those options.
So if, if one knows that I typically feel freeze when I'm in any social
situation, but maybe one that's more, um, uh, not triggering challenging.
I, I know I typically feel this way in social situations, so when I'm not in
that situation, lemme practice safety and then feel into my freeze activation
that I know is gonna happen anyway.
So let's just kind of feel into it.
Um, that's.
That's a generally approachable way, as long as you have enough safety.
But you can also say, I, I know I feel this often.
I felt in the past, I'm gonna feel it again in the future.
So let me anchor into safety and then remember what it feels
like to be in that situation.
Maybe even remember a specific incident, let it be there.
And then pendulate it with safety.
And that's all stage three stuff.
And a third option, which is very challenging, is the option of, I
know I'm gonna feel this anyway.
Let me imagine a scenario where I feel this, and then do the pendulation.
So all those act as, um, buffers or inno, what's the word?
Inoculator.
Inoculations to a real life scenario in the future.
So, in relationships where a boundary is needed, then the
safety state is important to stay connected and enforce the boundary.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So the ventral part piece of it, it could look like that.
Behavioral wise- that's what it could look like.
Internally, the ventral activation could show up as a deep
compassion for the person and.
You smile and you say, look, you sound ridiculous.
I love you, but no, I can't go there with you.
You know that that would be a really, you know, soft way to approach it.
Lots of compassion.
It's not easy to do, uh, but ventral could also be a connection with yourself.
Let's, let's stick with the other person.
It could be a connection with the other person where you do say
like, look, this is inappropriate.
I care about you.
I know you have the best intentions, but I think you're way off base and
I, I can't go down this path with you.
That's a little more firmer, but it still comes from enough
ventral activation to remember like, I do care about this person.
And, um, I also, and this is where the.
I think it's a more interesting piece of it, which is the connection with yourself.
And I think that takes a lot of ventral activation too.
So ventral the safety activation is connection with others, self, environment.
So part of the puzzle here is like, no, I connected to myself.
I know what I feel.
I feel it.
I feel that activation.
It makes sense, it's why it's there and I can let it be there.
And um, I'm also connected to my values, the one I believe, or what I know or what
I like- I'm connected to that, to that.
And I'm also connected to a, a value of mine, which is I can't
compromise, um, certain things.
Like it's just more morally I can't do that.
And so all that is a very strong foundation.
I think that comes from ventral, but also probably some fight, fight
activation too 'cause there's, there's empowerment there, right?
So behaviorally that could come across more compassionately and soft.
It might come across a little more toward the firm no.
You know, but once we're lashing out and name calling and stuff, that would
be behaviorally more probably suggest there's less ventral activation.
It seems like if I am telling the story through my fight lens, I would probably
have expectations that the other person is going to come back at me in some way.
Challenge me.
But in ventral, you don't read the future through a distorted lens.
Well, yeah, that, that's the tricky part of the distorted lens
because when we're in sympathetic, we know this is gonna happen.
Mm-hmm.
They are gonna say this, and they're a jerk, you know, but when
we have enough ventral activation, we can still see the future, quote
unquote, see the future in quotes.
Like, I, this is going to happen.
This person, I know this person, and they're realistically going to lash out.
Like that's, we've spent enough time with someone where we know, and dammit,
I can't do this anymore and I'm gonna embrace the fact that they're gonna
do this and I'm gonna hold my ground and if they cross a certain boundary,
then I'm gonna leave or whatever.
Uh, but that's telling the future in a sense.
But it's also very much grounded in reality versus flight, fight, freeze,
shutdown telling the future, which is more fear driven; defense, more
dysregulated, driven thought and like in the moment, that is really hard
to parse out and maybe unrealistic.
So ahead of time, that might be the best time to know what's
gonna happen realistically.
Then anchoring into the safety state enables a kind of,
"to thine own self be true."
Yeah, I, I think that the, actually the, the piece that
you brought up, the knowing.
Actual knowing.
Not the dysregulated assuming, but like, I know, I know what's gonna happen.
I know this person, I know their behavior and I know how they're likely to react
and damn it, here I am, I, I am firmly aware of how I feel and what I know
to be true or morally what I will or will not do, and I don't control them.
I think that's, that's actually a big part of, is knowing I, I don't
control them, but I realistically know how they're gonna react.
But I, I. I have no choice but to live up to what I know is right or wrong maybe, or
what, uh, line I will or will not cross.
And that's, I'm firmly planted like a, a tree deeply rooted in the ground in this.
That's different than stubbornness too.
There's a lot of like parsing, but that's, I'm not talking about stubbornness.
I'm talking about like value driven, principles, morality, like, I just
can't do this thing that they're asking me to, or however it shows up.
And then letting the chips fall where they may because you're
solidly rooted within yourself.
Yeah.
knowing that I don't control them, they're likely gonna do whatever it
is, and the, the results, if they enact that are potentially disastrous for
them or people around them that there might be some level of I, whatever
happens, happens, I, I can't control it.
I'll do the best I can.
I'll, you know, look out for those.
I love, depending on the situation, I'll look out for myself, but
this outcome is outta my control.
And if, if they are going to make disastrous decisions,
I, I just can't control that.
Thanks so much for joining me on Stuck Not Broken.
I hope you learned a bit about the importance of your safety
state and creating or enforcing boundaries with those who need it.
No, it's not easy.
Some relationships are easier to hold the boundary with than others.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to a strong enough connection within yourself,
the ability to feel your sympathetic states and to turn it into empowerment.
And also understanding that the other person is gonna make their own
choices and they need to live with the consequences of those choices.
And that you don't control the outcome of those choices, or at least, uh, you
maybe should not try to impose your control on the outcome of their choices.
But, uh, what do you think?
If you're interested in joining me in a future live q and a, I would love
to see you in the Unstucking Academy.
Not only are there q and As and other live events to answer your
questions, but there's also clear coursework that's grounded in the
Polyvagal Theory primary sources.
You'll also join a private community that's limited to 150 students, and
these are people that are just like you, so you're not gonna be alone.
You can learn more through the link in the description.
I hope to see you within the Unstucking Academy.