1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:07,400 Lazy, entitled, no work ethic and do not care about work. So when 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:14,360 I surveyed 100, about 100,000 managers a couple of years ago, they were all the answer to 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:21,359 one question. What do you think of your Gen Z team at work? So we've got some real work 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:27,640 to do, guys. Sounds all very positive, don't you think? Lazy, entitled, no work ethic. Things we love 5 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:34,000 to hear. But I'm being deadly serious. This is a real issue. Like it's tough. It's hard. Um, and 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,639 managers ask me this question almost every single day. Like, how on earth do I manage my Gen Z team 7 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:45,480 and I have a Gen Z team I think is Levi clusters. Gen Z 1996. Technically, yes. She's on the cusp, 8 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:51,680 so Taisha is definitely Gen Z. She's smiling. I'm I'm sure she's good. She's going to be laughing. A 9 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,720 lot of the things I say in this episode, um, I have a Gen Z team. I have Gen Z family, I have Gen Z 10 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:03,630 friends. I'm 1995, so I think I'm technically just millennial, although sometimes. Yeah. Okay. I'm fine. 11 00:01:03,630 --> 00:01:08,029 I'm very millennial, but sometimes I do try and pretend to be Gen Z. So if you ever hear me doing 12 00:01:08,029 --> 00:01:13,430 like, TikTok trends and stuff, that's why I'm just just trying to stay young. Um, and today's episode 13 00:01:13,430 --> 00:01:19,229 is sponsored by custard. I mean, it's not technically sponsored. It's still my business. Um, 14 00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:24,149 but I want to talk to you a little bit about custard before we get into this. Now. Custard is a 15 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:28,429 cultural intelligence platform. We have spent the last eight months building it now. It's a 16 00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:34,430 brilliant, brilliant piece of tech that is built for managers. So custard will essentially survey 17 00:01:34,430 --> 00:01:38,869 your team. It's a pull survey, so we don't have to do any more of the annual lengthy, boring long 18 00:01:38,870 --> 00:01:45,010 surveys. So it's a pull survey, meaning it takes 30s. That's all for your team to answer. They go 8 19 00:01:45,010 --> 00:01:49,670 a.m. every Friday morning and the questions have been built with an organisational psychologist. 20 00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:56,550 They have 154 questions that have been built in a way that makes sure your team can give 21 00:01:56,550 --> 00:02:01,819 you the right feedback that you need on the culture, on your leadership, on the on the business 22 00:02:01,819 --> 00:02:07,139 to improve and to build an excellent, excellent culture and to be an incredible manager. It's the 23 00:02:07,139 --> 00:02:11,179 piece of tech that I just wish I had like five years ago, to hear from our team, to get feedback 24 00:02:11,179 --> 00:02:15,339 from our team, but then show the team that we're listening. So because this bill is a cultural 25 00:02:15,339 --> 00:02:20,499 intelligence platform, just meaning we get the information directly from our team. It then uses 26 00:02:20,539 --> 00:02:27,419 AI to be able to, um, give the manager actions, exact actions, scripts, frameworks of 27 00:02:27,419 --> 00:02:33,619 exactly what they need to do about those results and to improve your culture. So go check it out. 28 00:02:33,619 --> 00:02:38,699 It's our website is just it's custard. Com. You can also find the link in any of the descriptions. 29 00:02:38,699 --> 00:02:43,020 Wherever you listening to this. It's a there's a free trial. It's completely free to test it out. No 30 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:47,619 contract needed I think you get 14 day free trial. I'm saying I think I do know you get a 14 day 31 00:02:47,619 --> 00:02:52,820 free trial. So back to the episode because custard will absolutely help you manage GNC better. But 32 00:02:52,820 --> 00:02:59,399 back to GNC. So in order to deeply understand how to 33 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,560 manage, how to get the best out of your Gen Z team. This episode, I'm going to give a bit of a 34 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,120 disclaimer. It's going to be full of a lot of nuance. What I mean is, I think the internet 35 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,679 nowadays, we've really lost the ability to like, hold space for more than one thing to be true at 36 00:03:14,679 --> 00:03:21,080 once. What I mean by that is, yes, there are certain members of the Gen Z generation that are lazy, 37 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:26,440 that are entitled, but not everyone. In fact, Gen Z are some of the most hard working people that 38 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,600 I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. They've been brought up in a world that's very different 39 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,399 to the one that you and I might understand. And by the way, the demographic of this podcast is like, I 40 00:03:35,399 --> 00:03:41,839 think our main demographic is 28 to 35 year olds. And so we generally we're generally millennials 41 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,320 here guys. And millennials, by the way, now make up the most managers in the UK. So the most people 42 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,360 most of us will be millennials because most managers are now millennials. But we really have 43 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,550 to understand the world that Gen Z grew up in. So they are digital natives. What we mean by digital 44 00:03:57,550 --> 00:04:04,389 natives is they grew up with technology. So you and I probably if you similar age to me. We grew 45 00:04:04,389 --> 00:04:11,269 up. Yes. We had a TV. I started to see mobile phones when I was in like year, like secondary school. You 46 00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:15,589 know, we started to like, hear about them, but we absolutely weren't allowed to take phones to 47 00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:20,709 school. I remember even being at sixth form, so right at the end of school and like, it was weird 48 00:04:20,709 --> 00:04:25,630 if you would bring a phone in school, it was strange. And then when I went to uni, it was really 49 00:04:25,630 --> 00:04:29,950 when social media started to be a thing. So obviously we'd had like the MSN and the, you know, 50 00:04:29,989 --> 00:04:34,309 Facebook was a thing. You'd upload all the photos in the album after a night out, but social media 51 00:04:34,309 --> 00:04:38,390 as we know it, like I remember Instagram and Instagram stories first not becoming a thing 52 00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:45,269 until I went to uni. You have to remember that the Gen Z, the Gen Z teams that are coming into our 53 00:04:45,269 --> 00:04:52,230 organisations now, this was their reality. Like they threw out primary school growing up, like 54 00:04:52,269 --> 00:04:57,739 just always had social media. It was always there. And what that means is and this is the really 55 00:04:57,739 --> 00:05:04,539 important bit. They can smell your bullshit from a mile off. So imagine if you'd have been brought 56 00:05:04,540 --> 00:05:10,260 up with like, you know, social media videos you've been brought up with seeing this really sort of 57 00:05:10,299 --> 00:05:16,499 filtered or inauthentic version highlight real version of the world. You will go into a workplace 58 00:05:16,499 --> 00:05:21,980 and that's what Gen Z had. You will go into a workplace. Then, if your leaders try to essentially 59 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:27,260 put on a filter over the information they try to bullshit us with, everything's going well. 60 00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:32,499 Everything's this, everything's up. Gen Z can smell that bullshit from mile off. They'll disengage. 61 00:05:32,499 --> 00:05:37,939 They know that you're not being transparent and so they will just switch off. And I think that the 62 00:05:37,939 --> 00:05:44,939 big shift that we've seen being made is this shift from the power being in the leadership team 63 00:05:44,940 --> 00:05:50,739 and, you know, just doing whatever your boss said just because your boss said to do it to now being 64 00:05:50,820 --> 00:05:55,489 the teams will question it. They need the context, they need the why, they need the understanding. And 65 00:05:55,489 --> 00:06:01,730 that really is the big shift. And the reason I tell us to hold nuance here is because I will not. 66 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:07,048 I will take as much accountability as I absolutely need to. I will take ownership for 67 00:06:07,089 --> 00:06:12,449 making sure that my team, the full team, not just Gen Z, feel a sense of like engagement, connection 68 00:06:12,450 --> 00:06:19,170 at work, feel valued. But I also have limits. I also have standards. And so if that if a team 69 00:06:19,170 --> 00:06:24,409 member, whether they're Gen Z or not, was to drop below those standards, whether it's with the 70 00:06:24,410 --> 00:06:28,169 quality of work, whether it's their attitude, how they show up, the values that we have in the 71 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:34,169 business, lateness, standard of work, whatever quality that still is cause for concern. Just 72 00:06:34,170 --> 00:06:37,809 because they're Gen Z doesn't mean we let them get away with it. And so it's like there has to be 73 00:06:37,809 --> 00:06:42,209 nuance in this conversation around, yes, we're going to build that belonging and value. And I can 74 00:06:42,209 --> 00:06:44,769 talk I'm going to talk to you about that in a second of how we can get the best out of these 75 00:06:44,769 --> 00:06:51,489 people. But there is still a limit whereby you have to say, actually the quality, standard 76 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,799 Attitude will no longer be accepted when it gets to that limit. And so make sure you have that 77 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,279 limit. And I'm actually going to go through something that I call my tapes method. This is the 78 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,760 method that I talked about in my Ted talk back in 2024. And I still think that this is a brilliant 79 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:11,279 method for kind of understanding how to best manage Gen Z. So tapes is an anagram and the T 80 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,840 stands for transparency. Now the reason transparency is so important to Gen Z, like we've 81 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:22,759 already said, social media has brought us up thinking we need filters. We need to lie. We need 82 00:07:22,759 --> 00:07:29,239 to, you know, present the best version of ourself, be as perfect as we possibly can be. Whereas Gen Z 83 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:34,000 like they know that that's not the truth. They have grown up like us millennials. We grew up in a 84 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,039 world where a business would hide things. You would hide things like the profit and loss. You 85 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,039 would hide salaries you would hide, you know, are we bringing new people in? Are we making 86 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,920 redundancies? All of it was very hidden and kept behind closed doors. And I remember I read a book 87 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,909 that I will recommend Till the Cows Come Home, and I've probably already mentioned it on this 88 00:07:51,909 --> 00:07:57,310 podcast at some point. A book that's called No Rules, rules and the Culture of Reinvention. And 89 00:07:57,310 --> 00:08:02,188 it's but it's written out by the Netflix co-founders. And they talked about how like their 90 00:08:02,189 --> 00:08:07,390 biggest competitive advantage, obviously they were trying to take down blockbuster, like they were 91 00:08:07,390 --> 00:08:11,589 fighting one of the biggest, most heavily invested in businesses and industries with their new 92 00:08:11,589 --> 00:08:16,709 subscription model for TV. And they said that they were never going to win with product. They were 93 00:08:16,709 --> 00:08:20,630 never going to win with marketing. They were never going to win with, like, doing all the big shiny 94 00:08:20,670 --> 00:08:25,509 things because blockbuster already had that. They had the biggest market stake in the game. The way 95 00:08:25,509 --> 00:08:31,069 that they won was through culture, was through their internal culture of innovation and high 96 00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:37,189 standards. Because if you focus on that internal culture, that ultimately in turn means you can 97 00:08:37,189 --> 00:08:41,868 have the best, most creative marketing, the most incredible product. So focus on the culture first. 98 00:08:41,869 --> 00:08:47,909 And in the book, one of the things that Netflix puts their culture success down to is 99 00:08:47,909 --> 00:08:53,249 transparency. They have a whole chapter called Open the Books. And in that chapter they 100 00:08:53,249 --> 00:08:59,089 essentially talk about how huge things changed for them internally. When they started being more 101 00:08:59,090 --> 00:09:03,369 transparent with their team, they started building out something called a stakeholder report, which I 102 00:09:03,369 --> 00:09:07,169 eventually started using inside go proposal and now do with the team in Custard and Fresh 103 00:09:07,169 --> 00:09:14,049 Leadership World, which is building a monthly report for the team that shows a version of the 104 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:20,089 PNL. So it shows them revenue, it shows them profit, it shows them if we're bringing new people in, if 105 00:09:20,129 --> 00:09:24,249 you know, you can present this in like a quarterly meeting, it shows where we made most money, where 106 00:09:24,250 --> 00:09:30,329 we lost money, where we made the least money. Um, it shows like highlights, lowlights. It essentially 107 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:34,608 just gives your team this deeper, transparent understanding of what's happening under the hood 108 00:09:34,609 --> 00:09:39,009 of the business. And so many businesses still shy away from that. Maybe because we're embarrassed, we 109 00:09:39,009 --> 00:09:44,489 fear judgement, but we shy away from it. And so whatever your version of that stakeholder report 110 00:09:44,489 --> 00:09:49,200 is, try and build it out. It might not be that you have access to all the business's financial 111 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,639 information, and that's okay. But what is it in your team? That's the stakeholder report. Could it 112 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,599 be like the culture scores from custard, for example? Could it be the strategy that the changes 113 00:09:58,599 --> 00:10:03,000 that are happening in the business that normally happen above you, but you have the opportunity to 114 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:08,959 bring your team along for that journey? Another way is just being transparent is when we delegate, 115 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:15,239 when we give them things to do, provide as much context as possible, because it's that context and 116 00:10:15,239 --> 00:10:20,679 connecting it to the why that helps to show them, you know, I'm not just handing you a random task 117 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,920 to do. I'm telling you the context. I'm telling you sort of why that's important. So being as 118 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,280 transparent as possible because they can smell the bullshit. And so don't try to lie to them. Like, 119 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,319 don't try to make things out to be more positive than they are. We have to be transparent with Gen 120 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,520 Z if we expect any sort of great work out of them, if we expect them to not switch off and engage. 121 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:46,949 And to be fair to us, we have tried. I feel as though as a like the working world, the leadership 122 00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:52,429 world. We have tried so many things when it comes to managing Gen Z. We have tried like the open 123 00:10:52,429 --> 00:10:58,749 plan offices, unlimited holidays, work from home, then don't work from home, then get the ping pong 124 00:10:58,789 --> 00:11:02,989 office. I feel like that was a millennial thing and to be fair, but we've tried all these things 125 00:11:02,989 --> 00:11:08,908 and none of that. We seem to still not quite understand how to manage through them. And I also 126 00:11:08,909 --> 00:11:13,589 think, you know, some of the great feedback that I got off the back of my Ted talk about Gen Z was 127 00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:20,509 that these aren't just principles that Gen Z want. These are things that the entire workforce want. 128 00:11:20,549 --> 00:11:27,429 Gen Z just now have the language. They have the, you know, backing to push for these things because 129 00:11:27,429 --> 00:11:33,789 they've grown up with them. And so I think when we start to change the world of work for a certain 130 00:11:33,790 --> 00:11:40,509 generation, it's moving us all forward. It's moving us all into a much more like people driven, 131 00:11:40,510 --> 00:11:47,339 positive workforce. And so just bear that in mind. So the A in tape step two is authenticity. And the 132 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:53,019 reason authenticity is so important for Gen Z is because we were brought up in a world of this 133 00:11:53,059 --> 00:11:59,819 kind of fake professionalism. So, you know, it was wear a uniform, get told off if your uniform looks 134 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:04,579 slightly wrong, wear shirts to work even on the hottest day of the year, wear a shirt and a tie 135 00:12:04,579 --> 00:12:11,179 and a blazer. And I think that era of professionalism is just so over. And it 136 00:12:11,219 --> 00:12:17,259 really like, I don't even think it's just over. I think it now puts this wall up. It puts up this 137 00:12:17,260 --> 00:12:22,219 blockade between the person who is kind of speaking, whether it's the leader, if that leader 138 00:12:22,219 --> 00:12:28,259 is in a in, you know, a really fancy shirt and blazer. I remember actually having a call once 139 00:12:28,259 --> 00:12:34,299 with, um, I had an accountant who was potentially going to be my accountant and had a call with him 140 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:38,260 speaking to him about his accountancy firm and whether or not it was the right fit for one of my 141 00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:45,169 businesses. And he turned up to the call in full suit, like full iron suit, tie 142 00:12:45,489 --> 00:12:51,570 blazer. And I'm not going to lie, I know you shouldn't judge, but it freaked me out. I was like, 143 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:57,168 oh my God, I feel like this person, I'm just there in a hoodie, as I am for most of my workdays. And I 144 00:12:57,169 --> 00:13:02,289 felt this sense of like, what is this person trying to prove? Like, if he feels as though he has 145 00:13:02,289 --> 00:13:08,289 to put on this shirt blazer, get really dressed up to prove himself to a client or whatever. Like, 146 00:13:08,289 --> 00:13:14,249 what am I missing? And whether that's right or wrong, maybe I wrongly misjudged that person, but 147 00:13:14,249 --> 00:13:20,529 it just if we go for this, like fake professionalism, it puts up a wall because we 148 00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:26,969 recognise it, we recognise what is real and what isn't. And so authenticity is so important as a 149 00:13:26,969 --> 00:13:31,929 leader, when we wanting to get the best out of Gen Z, because they will recognise when we're not 150 00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:36,929 authentic. And so authenticity just comes from things like admitting when we've made a mistake, 151 00:13:36,929 --> 00:13:43,389 not pretending we have all the answers, like not trying to be perfect at everything. Not. You know. 152 00:13:43,429 --> 00:13:49,749 If we make a mistake. Talk about it. Admit it. It's okay if we get something wrong. Because Gen Z will 153 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:55,229 truly sniff it out. Like, if you do something wrong, you make a mistake. Likelihood is other people 154 00:13:55,230 --> 00:13:59,348 have already seen it. Other people already understand. They know you've done that thing. If 155 00:13:59,349 --> 00:14:04,270 you then don't just admit it and kind of laugh it off, or talk to people about what you're going to 156 00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:11,269 do to turn it around. You just come across as fake and inauthentic. And so it's so, so important that 157 00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:15,669 we are authentic. And I know that's a bit of a buzzword, but it essentially just means all these 158 00:14:15,669 --> 00:14:20,988 walls that we put up around a telephone voice wearing a suit, like all the kind of 159 00:14:21,029 --> 00:14:24,989 professionalism walls that we feel as though we have to put up, because we've been told for many 160 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:31,148 years that we have to try to start to undo those. What is the real you? How do you bring a bit more 161 00:14:31,149 --> 00:14:36,509 of the real you into how you're leading? And then the third principle, which is P in the tapes 162 00:14:36,510 --> 00:14:41,859 framework. I think I'm going to argue that this 1st May be the most important. And it's definitely 163 00:14:41,859 --> 00:14:47,219 the most practical, I think, when it comes to managing Gen Z and just managing a wider team, to 164 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:54,219 be honest. The third letter, P is progression. Now, when we speak about Gen Z, a lot of 165 00:14:54,219 --> 00:14:59,499 the time people say to me, how do I keep them motivated? How do I keep them engaged? Like, we 166 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:06,218 actually know that Gen Z are leaving and starting new jobs twice as fast as any other generation. So 167 00:15:06,219 --> 00:15:11,499 the issue really lies in this. How do we keep them motivated? How do we keep them like moving forward, 168 00:15:11,499 --> 00:15:18,059 excited, engaged. And the answer is progression. So if you think about the word motivate 169 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:24,699 motivation, the root word of motivation is motive, which is the Latin word for just motive 170 00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:31,019 moving things forward. It's just that motion. It's that moving things forward at all times. And the 171 00:15:31,019 --> 00:15:36,899 reason that we've got P for progression is that your team have to have to be constantly feeling 172 00:15:36,899 --> 00:15:42,330 this sense of forward motion. And, you know, we like to talk about the big stuff, the pay rises, the 173 00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:46,849 promotions. They are great for helping people feel as though they're moving forward. Obviously 174 00:15:46,849 --> 00:15:53,728 they're the bigger, wider, like more objectively successful steps in a career path. However, 175 00:15:53,729 --> 00:15:59,009 if they're not possible. So if you can't get the promotion, get the pay rise to your team members, 176 00:15:59,009 --> 00:16:04,289 just think about their other parts of their day to day. How are they being moved forward every 177 00:16:04,289 --> 00:16:11,048 single day? So small ways you can do this. Just notice what they want. Ask them what career 178 00:16:11,049 --> 00:16:15,889 progression are you looking for? Just by asking them the question where you know, where do you 179 00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:20,889 want to be in your career in two years time? In five years time? Tell me, how can we help you get 180 00:16:20,890 --> 00:16:25,809 there? How can you help yourself get there? A lot of the time, the answers to those questions aren't 181 00:16:25,810 --> 00:16:32,249 always I want the big salary review or I want the big pay, the big promotion. Sometimes it's just I 182 00:16:32,249 --> 00:16:37,608 want to pick up this skill. I want to learn this new thing, and I want to spend more time on this 183 00:16:37,609 --> 00:16:44,479 new thing Um, and hone this new thing. We can help them do that. But we won't know that unless we ask. 184 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,399 And so go and ask them. Figure it out. Figure out what it is that they want, what skill you can help 185 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:53,959 them with. Another way I think you can help people move forward is coaching. Like help them to 186 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,279 understand more things about your world, like if you're managing them, most likely you've been in 187 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,840 their position before. Not always. Sometimes we manage teams of people that we like haven't done 188 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,160 that skill, but sometimes you can just coach them and help improve them in that skill. Another way 189 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,760 is to remove things from them. So a question that I like to ask the team is if I could remove one 190 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,000 thing from your job that's just getting in the way, it's pissing you off, it's doing your head in 191 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,638 and it's annoying. It doesn't feel like it's moving you forward. What would that one thing be? 192 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:28,079 And when they tell you, maybe you can't always get rid of it straight away. Maybe it's something that 193 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:33,280 needs to be done, but could you automate it? Could you delegate it elsewhere? Could you find a way to 194 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:38,430 systemise it or get an outsourced person to do it? Or is there a way that we can remove it 195 00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:43,749 altogether? Just by asking these questions, it's like progression. It's forward motion. It's just 196 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:48,669 them feeling as though they're one small step ahead of where they were yesterday. I think 197 00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:53,829 another really simple way we can help people feel like they're really moving forward all the time, 198 00:17:53,829 --> 00:18:00,189 is making sure we recognise and praise their work. When your team do great things, make sure you 199 00:18:00,189 --> 00:18:04,629 praise them for it and tell them specifically what it is that they've done. Why that thing is 200 00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:09,829 great. Take the time to praise. I think we've put so much impetus and effort into having these 201 00:18:09,829 --> 00:18:15,309 difficult conversations and, you know, hard feedback, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes the praise can 202 00:18:15,310 --> 00:18:21,430 help keep them motivated far longer than anything else. And so make sure that progression that 203 00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:26,349 you're focussed on. How do I keep the team feeling as though there's that sense of forward motion 204 00:18:26,349 --> 00:18:32,869 and improvement and things getting better? The next one in the tape. So we've done tape E is 205 00:18:32,910 --> 00:18:38,819 elastic. So flexibility it's a big one. we're going to be talking about. This is a big, big, big part of 206 00:18:38,819 --> 00:18:44,338 the working world nowadays. If you're a millennial like me, you will very much remember the days of 207 00:18:44,339 --> 00:18:49,499 working every single day in an office, and that was just the norm. We didn't even question it. Like 208 00:18:49,539 --> 00:18:56,459 I remember one day asking we did actually before Covid go proposal where I was working in like 209 00:18:56,459 --> 00:19:03,379 20 1819, the boss did actually say we could work from home whenever we wanted, but no one ever did 210 00:19:03,379 --> 00:19:07,299 it. Like I remember thinking, if you worked from home, people would think that you were lazy and 211 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:11,739 you weren't doing anything, and so no one ever took it. I think I probably worked from home out 212 00:19:11,740 --> 00:19:17,579 of the however many years with like 2 or 3 years before Covid, maybe like once when I was a bit ill 213 00:19:17,579 --> 00:19:23,419 or I had to, I don't know, it was like a really extreme thing to do and it felt that way. Whereas 214 00:19:23,420 --> 00:19:29,380 now, oh my God, we're all over. I'm working from everywhere at every which time of day, and so are 215 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:35,519 the team. And I think elasticity is all about flexibility. And I think you can have 216 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,759 flexibility with guidelines. So what I mean is too much flexibility sometimes is detrimental to 217 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,039 people because it's like if you've got too many options, if you've got too many things to do, you 218 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,880 don't know which one is kind of going to be the best. And you might feel guilty about doing the 219 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:57,759 thing that you want to do. So what I say to that is build in flexibility, but with guidelines. 220 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,559 So for example, our working policy right now I'll work from home policy. And I've done videos on 221 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,439 this before and it will constantly change. Like I'll probably review this again in a few months 222 00:20:07,439 --> 00:20:11,160 and check it still. Right. So if you have any feedback on it, let me know in the comments and 223 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:17,679 I'd love to know, like what your perfect work from home policy would be, but our policy at the minute 224 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:23,318 are flexible. Working policy is. So obviously we work five days a week. We do two days of the week 225 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:26,958 in the office and you can choose what those days are. But generally we'll chat to each other and 226 00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:33,359 say like, um, you know, what day are you in? I think as the team grows, I'll probably set one day where 227 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,469 I want everyone in in the week. So maybe it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday or I'm like, everyone 228 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:42,389 come in on a Wednesday and then the other day you can just choose yourself. But right now we're very 229 00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:47,989 flexible on what days, but it's two days in the office. We also have flexibility around timings, so 230 00:20:47,989 --> 00:20:54,069 obviously we work. What is it, seven hours a day? Yeah, 9 to 5. With an hour break. You can work those 231 00:20:54,069 --> 00:21:00,989 seven hours any time between 7 and 7. And so if you want to start at seven, finish at three. If 232 00:21:00,989 --> 00:21:06,589 you want to start at 11, finish at seven, you can do that. And it just gives people this flexibility 233 00:21:06,590 --> 00:21:11,709 with guidelines to say, you know, if you've got kids to pick up from school, if you just want to 234 00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:15,829 go for a long run in the morning and you don't want to start work till ten, you can do. And 235 00:21:15,829 --> 00:21:21,349 there's a guideline. There's a policy there that's very clearly stating, you can do this if you want 236 00:21:21,349 --> 00:21:26,869 to work early and work late, whatever, you can do that. And I think the reason that works really 237 00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:32,780 well is it's flexibility, but it's flexibility that people feel entitled to take. And so it's 238 00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:38,780 like, if you can I appreciate a lot of workplaces. You may not have the final call over what that 239 00:21:38,780 --> 00:21:43,698 flexibility looks like, but if you can in any way give your team some flexibility around their 240 00:21:43,699 --> 00:21:50,219 working hours, I think it goes a huge long way because it gives people this like autonomy, agency 241 00:21:50,219 --> 00:21:56,739 ownership over their own working day. And I work for myself now. And so I have a lot of I say 242 00:21:56,739 --> 00:22:02,249 freedom. It's kind of freedom. But I also feel like I'm, I'm it's like I've gone from working in 9 to 243 00:22:02,250 --> 00:22:08,660 5 to work in a 24 over seven, but I still have the choice, you know, like this weekend I was with my 244 00:22:08,660 --> 00:22:14,899 friends, I was chill, I didn't go on my laptop once. Like, I really had to relax and enjoy my weekend. 245 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:20,980 And I get to choose to do that some weekends. I'm smashing through admin and like, you know, up late 246 00:22:20,980 --> 00:22:25,659 smashing through my work. But the reason I love it is because I have the choice. The reason I love it 247 00:22:25,660 --> 00:22:30,019 is because it's it's my choice to get to choose whether I do that or not. And I want to try and 248 00:22:30,019 --> 00:22:34,050 give that to the team as much as possible. You know, I don't want any of them to ever feel as 249 00:22:34,050 --> 00:22:38,728 though if on a Friday at 3 p.m., they need to go somewhere, they need to set off early to get 250 00:22:38,729 --> 00:22:44,089 somewhere. They can't do it because I think that's when people start to feel squashed. And so think 251 00:22:44,089 --> 00:22:49,729 about the ways you can create that flexibility. I also think internally we squash a lot of 252 00:22:49,729 --> 00:22:55,488 flexibility by like making people feel as though they don't have autonomy over how they do things. 253 00:22:55,529 --> 00:23:00,568 If you think about, like completing a report or a task, if you say to your team member, here's 254 00:23:00,569 --> 00:23:05,409 exactly the ten steps I want you to follow to complete this task, and I want you to do it at 255 00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:12,129 9:00 every Monday morning. You've removed all sense of ownership autonomy over that task. If you 256 00:23:12,130 --> 00:23:17,409 instead say, look, here's the context, here's why this report's so important, and we do need it for 257 00:23:17,409 --> 00:23:22,568 the meeting at 10:00 on a Monday morning. It kind of gives them that like, look, if you want to do it 258 00:23:22,569 --> 00:23:26,329 on a Friday, you can do it on a Friday. If you want to automate it, use an AI. You can automate it. Use 259 00:23:26,329 --> 00:23:29,809 an AI if you've got a quicker way of doing it, a better way of doing it, or if you just want to 260 00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:34,319 come on a Monday morning and rush your way through it, you're welcome to do that too. It just 261 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:39,599 gives them a bit of agency and autonomy over how they do it, and it's that flexibility, I think, that 262 00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:46,319 keeps people more engaged and motivated because you're not, like, ruling with this iron fist 263 00:23:46,319 --> 00:23:52,599 of you turn up here, here then and do this and do that. And it also gives people space to like, have 264 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:58,800 feelings and be able to allow those feelings to come into work. So for example, like just for us 265 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,800 women, you know, as there are cycles throughout the month, like our period cycle happens, there's some 266 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,599 days within that cycle that I just cannot be bothered. I can't be bothered. I've got such a 267 00:24:08,599 --> 00:24:13,959 short fuse. Everyone pisses me off. I'm annoyed at everything. Like, you could look at me the wrong 268 00:24:13,959 --> 00:24:18,599 way and I'm like, walking here. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so annoyed. I'm so frustrated. There are other 269 00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:22,438 days where you could actually probably punch me in the face, and I'd just laugh it off because I 270 00:24:22,439 --> 00:24:27,719 wouldn't even be bothered because I'm so chill. I'm so easy. I'm so like, yeah, I love it when 271 00:24:27,719 --> 00:24:33,819 people are like, I'm chill. I'm easy. And actually I am a micromanager all the time. I am a control 272 00:24:33,819 --> 00:24:37,899 freak all the time. But there are definitely, you know what I mean? Like, you have these ebbs and 273 00:24:37,899 --> 00:24:43,299 flows in how you feel, how you and your team have them too. Like we're not special in that. And so if 274 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:49,140 they have a day of the week where they're just they can't be bothered, like they've not got 100% 275 00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:53,699 energy today, they're at like a 30%. They're just feeling a bit crap. They want to sit in bed and 276 00:24:53,699 --> 00:24:58,299 just answer some emails slowly. They want to do the work that feels a bit slower to them. I want 277 00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:03,140 them to be able to make that choice and be able to do it because I can and I need that. And then 278 00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:08,139 some days we're in the office, we're firing on all cylinders, we're flying around, we're smashing it, 279 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:12,699 but it's just not possible to do it every day. And I think when we don't allow that flexibility for 280 00:25:12,699 --> 00:25:19,699 people, that's when they disengage. That's when they feel anxious on a Sunday, that's when they 281 00:25:19,699 --> 00:25:26,339 get annoyed at their manager and they start to just lose all sense of like, I don't know, respect 282 00:25:26,339 --> 00:25:31,889 and ownership and care over their work because they just feel like a cog in a machine, and that's 283 00:25:31,889 --> 00:25:37,809 never what we want them to feel like. So E is elastic. Figure out there must be ways within your 284 00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:41,729 day to day. You may not be able to control how many days they work from home or whatever, but 285 00:25:41,729 --> 00:25:46,489 there has to be something that you have control over as their manager as to how you can kind of 286 00:25:46,529 --> 00:25:53,289 hand them back some more freedom and agency over their own time. And finally, s this the S 287 00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:59,809 is something that. So Google ran, um, a survey across 200 businesses. It was called Project 288 00:25:59,849 --> 00:26:06,050 Aristotle, 200 businesses, thousands of managers. And they were surveying culture. So they were 289 00:26:06,050 --> 00:26:10,328 looking at culture inside those businesses and they were saying, what's the difference between 290 00:26:10,329 --> 00:26:16,569 wildly high performance teams? Teams who show up are engaged, love the work that they do versus low 291 00:26:16,569 --> 00:26:21,049 performing teams. So teams who don't seem to care don't hit targets, whatever. And the biggest 292 00:26:21,050 --> 00:26:27,719 difference they found was s safety. So psychological safety. More importantly 293 00:26:27,719 --> 00:26:32,359 was the difference Google found between high performing teams and low performing teams. It was 294 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:38,680 the main important thing. Now safety, if you go back 500,000 years to when we were hunter 295 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,159 gatherers, we lived in tribes. Safety was built in us at the very, very, very bottom of 296 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:51,719 Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If we didn't feel safe, nothing else mattered. If we didn't feel safe, 297 00:26:51,719 --> 00:26:58,319 we couldn't even think about socialising, about innovating, experimenting. We couldn't even begin 298 00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:04,039 to think about, like pushing forward, being engaged, trying new things because all we're worried about 299 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,239 is preserving our safety. And that's how you have to think about your team at work. If your team do 300 00:27:10,239 --> 00:27:15,559 not feel safe inside your culture, inside your team, inside your business, you can forget any 301 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,599 chance of them innovating, socialising, you know, trying new things, experimenting, moving your 302 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:27,068 business forward. It's all out the window if they don't feel psychologically safe at work. So the 303 00:27:27,069 --> 00:27:32,030 ways and this is down to the manager, by the way. Of course the wider business culture plays a big 304 00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:37,708 part in it. But this is a there's a huge variance in this from manager to manager. And you will know 305 00:27:37,910 --> 00:27:42,309 if you've been inside a business where you have a bad manager and someone else has a good manager, 306 00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:47,629 or vice versa, you have a really good manager, they have a really bad manager. It's all to do with 307 00:27:47,629 --> 00:27:52,669 psychological safety. Now psychological safety can be very it can be simplified. It has a lot of 308 00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:59,550 complex nuance to it. But we can simplify it by saying, can your team make a mistake, make a 309 00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:06,149 suggestion, speak up, get something wrong without the fear of being vilified or 310 00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:10,510 judged. And now these are some questions that are inside custard as well, that you can find out. If 311 00:28:10,510 --> 00:28:14,509 you go start your custard free trial, your team will get asked these questions so you can figure 312 00:28:14,509 --> 00:28:19,349 out how psychologically safe they actually feel. It's one of our categories, but for the purpose of 313 00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:24,699 this podcast, do your team feel safe to speak up? You can, you should. You should have a good 314 00:28:24,699 --> 00:28:30,339 indication of the answer and the way that you help them speak up and experiment more. The way 315 00:28:30,339 --> 00:28:35,499 that you can make them feel more safe is things like you admitting your own mistakes, you not 316 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:42,139 trying to be perfect, you being their safety net like when they fail, when they mess up. 317 00:28:42,219 --> 00:28:48,179 Don't vilify them for it. Like help them to feel it's all part of this journey that we're on. It's 318 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:52,859 all part of like we have to do these things. We have to make these mistakes. We have to learn. Now, 319 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:57,659 of course, we need standards like we can't just be constantly getting things wrong all the time and 320 00:28:57,699 --> 00:29:03,020 there be no repercussions. Like, we need to make sure that our standards are still high. It's just 321 00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:08,499 that the way I see standards now is that mistakes are part of my standards. Like, I have high 322 00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:14,019 standards for the work that we deliver with clients, for our social media, for our website, for 323 00:29:14,020 --> 00:29:19,900 everything that we do for our product, our marketing. But those standards remain high by 324 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:25,968 trying new things, making mistakes, and then just writing down what we're not going to do again. So 325 00:29:25,969 --> 00:29:29,489 when someone makes a mistake, even if it's something quite tragic like we've had in the past, 326 00:29:29,529 --> 00:29:33,569 you know, people sending the wrong things to clients. Big clients like getting the wrong 327 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:38,769 information. And it really hurts. Like, you know, it feels like a stab in the gooks. You've worked so 328 00:29:38,769 --> 00:29:42,689 hard to make sure that thing is right, and then someone else does it and it's wrong. And but it's 329 00:29:42,689 --> 00:29:46,729 a mistake. It's a human mistake. So the conversation I would have with the team at that 330 00:29:46,729 --> 00:29:51,249 point would be, what are we doing to make sure this doesn't happen again? Like, what system are 331 00:29:51,250 --> 00:29:54,849 you putting in place to make sure this doesn't happen again? And if it does happen again, it's a 332 00:29:54,849 --> 00:29:59,169 difficult conversation, right? This is twice now that this has happened. It was a mistake the first 333 00:29:59,170 --> 00:30:02,689 time, but this has happened again. What are you doing to make sure this doesn't happen again? 334 00:30:02,689 --> 00:30:06,809 Because the next time it does, we're going to have to have a bit more of a tougher conversation 335 00:30:06,810 --> 00:30:13,489 about this. And so how are you making your team feel safe? Are you admitting your 336 00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:19,049 mistakes? Are you making space for other people to speak up in meetings? Are you being quiet to like, 337 00:30:19,089 --> 00:30:24,109 allow them, asking them questions, making sure that people don't feel judged. We spoke about 338 00:30:24,109 --> 00:30:28,709 icebreakers in a previous episode and how icebreakers can be so powerful. I think 339 00:30:28,749 --> 00:30:33,030 icebreakers can be great for like, what's one mistake that you've made at work this week? Like, 340 00:30:33,030 --> 00:30:39,469 what's one thing that you've messed up? Because when you ask that question, all of a sudden people 341 00:30:39,469 --> 00:30:44,869 are like, oh, it's okay to talk about these mistakes. Like, we don't have to try and be perfect. 342 00:30:44,910 --> 00:30:51,109 So tapes, guys, I want you to remember that when we're talking about Gen Z transparency, 343 00:30:51,109 --> 00:30:57,869 authenticity, progression, elasticity and safety. Try and create those five 344 00:30:57,870 --> 00:31:03,389 conditions inside your workplace and watch your Gen Z team members bloom now. As I said at the 345 00:31:03,390 --> 00:31:07,509 beginning, not everyone will do that. You will still have people in your team who have a low 346 00:31:07,550 --> 00:31:13,069 work ethic, who are lazy, who aren't right, who don't share the same values. But once you create 347 00:31:13,069 --> 00:31:17,709 those conditions, it becomes a lot easier to spot those people, have the difficult conversation with 348 00:31:17,710 --> 00:31:23,419 them, make sure that they get properly managed. But once you create those conditions, I guarantee the 349 00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:28,699 other 80% 90% you will be able to watch them flourish. You will be able to watch your Gen Z and 350 00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:33,779 the rest of that team flourish. And guys, if you're enjoying this podcast, please make sure you do as 351 00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:38,780 a review. Follow us. Subscribe. Like all the engagement really, really helps us to continue to 352 00:31:38,819 --> 00:31:43,659 grow and invest in creating brilliant episodes. And by the way, if you have a dilemma, we've had 353 00:31:43,660 --> 00:31:50,619 some great dilemmas messaging already. Send an email to hello at the Boardroom podcast.com. Um, we 354 00:31:50,619 --> 00:31:54,219 will go through all your dilemmas on this pod. We're going to start doing it in a couple of 355 00:31:54,219 --> 00:31:57,819 episodes time, because we're starting to build them up now. And I want to do one podcast episode 356 00:31:57,819 --> 00:32:01,818 that is kind of like going through everyone's dilemmas at once, and I think we can do that sort 357 00:32:01,819 --> 00:32:06,019 of every fourth episode to make sure you get the answers that you need. So hello, are the boardroom 358 00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:10,179 podcast calm? We'll put it in the link below in the description below. Um, send us through your 359 00:32:10,179 --> 00:32:14,740 dilemma. We will of course keep it all anonymous, but I'd love to hear from you. See you in the next 360 00:32:14,740 --> 00:32:15,380 episode.