Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers who want to better understand and connect with their four legged friends. I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy, and today I'm joined by an incredibly special guest, Sally Gutteridge. Sally is a best selling dog writer, an advocate for ethical dog training, a mentor, has a background in the military, and is a rescue dog handler. In this episode, we talk about everything from positive dog guardianship to rehabilitating rescue dogs, including ex puppy farm survivors. We also dive into Sally's fascinating journey with working dogs and how her writing is shaping the future of dog advocacy. Whether you're a long time dog guardian or just starting your journey, this episode is packed with wisdom and inspiration. So grab a cup of tea, settle in, and let's get started.

Welcome back to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily. I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and I'm so excited to bring you another episode today. Even more excited because we've got an amazing guest for this episode, Sally Gutteridge, a friend and a colleague and a mentor to me. I'm so excited to have Sally. On the show today Sally has an incredible journey, which we're going to be talking about today as a dog writer an advocate a mentor a former hearing dog trainer And also has a background in the military and is a rescue dog handler So we're going to be delving into rescue dogs puppy farm survivors as well as positive Dog guardianship. So I'm super excited that Sally's joined us today. Sally, welcome to the Yappy Hour. I'm so excited to chat with you today. How are you?

for inviting me. Yeah.

It's great to have you here. Have you had a bit of a cold, haven't you? So I'm just, that's both of us. We're both in the war. So I'm sure we'll get through it together. Sally you have sat such a fascinating journey from being in the military, working as a trainer for hearing dogs, to behaviourist, writer, and mentor. What led you to dedicate your life to dogs?

I think it was probably the same story as most dog people, weren't it? We, from the moment that we start to walk, we start to be drawn to these beautiful animals and tend to gravitate back to them over and over and over again and that's how it happened for me. I grew up in the West Midlands and there was no, it was very, it was a very poor area. And there was no university or anything like that for me. And I

Right.

playing with the dog, getting her over jumps and things. And bit by bit I joined the army and then Learned a little bit more and learned a bit more, did lots of study. But, do we really need to ask why we chose dogs? Dogs chose us, didn't they? Really?

I knew you were going to say that. Dogs choose us.

Yeah, they

that's lovely. You've got such an interesting story. So when you were in the military, did you work with dogs then?

Yeah, yeah. I actually joined as a healthcare assistant in the military because I had no idea that you could become an army dog trainer at the time.

Oh, wow.

Army careers and they give me a list of things that I would be suitable for. was, one was health care assistant. So I said, okay, I'll give that a go. then while I was working at a hospital in Catrick Garrison, found out you could be an army dog trainer. And so I was like, okay, I want to do that. And I went off, joined the veterinary corps. then the first The first day I got there, we had to do a basic fitness test which was run a mile and a half in 15 minutes and then a mile and a half in 11 minutes.

Oh, bloody hell.

completely failed it. And then they were going

would, I would have found it. Oh, wow.

I ended up saying, please don't send me back, I really want to work. Here, I really want to work with dogs. And the regimental sergeant major took me running every morning that I could pass this fitness test so that I could carry on working with dogs, yeah.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah.

that he was invested and helped you, helped you through it as well.

Yeah, he was a lovely guy.

So you obviously got through it in the end then.

Yeah.

I love, I don't know some of this stuff, so I'm loving hearing a little bit about your history. I think it's fascinating. Thank you, Sally. You've written so many books, books that have helped dog parents, dog guardians worldwide. What inspired you to start writing about dogs and their people?

Oh, it was, I'd always wanted to write. I always wanted to be a writer. And I did it was not that long ago, when I went back to writing, it was about 15 years. And I'd been in the army, and I'd worked for hearing dogs, and I'd done lots of rescue stuff. So I had all the dog knowledge, but I, I wanted to write but I never met the connection between all the dog knowledge and the writing. I was like a dog person, a person who loved dogs who wanted to write novels and so I did, I did a writing course and the first part of the writing course was writing non fiction. And of course I went to dogs,

Okay.

it for them, I might as well write it for me. So I started writing courses for, and and my husband created Canine Principles,

Yeah. Yeah.

taking it in and then putting it down on the page in a more accessible way as it passed through my, through me, onto the page. So.

Brilliant. And you're also a better dog behaviourist as well, aren't you?

yeah, yeah, I don't practice I, I generally teach and write, but, yeah.

Oh, brilliant. Such a let's say such an inspiring story and I love hearing about it. Thank you, Sally. So we're going to be moving on to our next section, which is the power of ethical dog training and guardianship. You're a huge advocate for ethical dog training. Why do you believe that positive science based methods are so important?

Oh, they are, because we should be kind, shouldn't we?

We should. Yeah, yeah.

why shouldn't you hit children? You know, why shouldn't you, it, it, it's something that is so straightforward, we should be kind, if we love dogs we should look into understanding them, giving them their head, letting them be who they are, helping them to live with us. There's It, it surprises me that there are still people pushing dogs around.

Heartbreaking.

Yeah, even, even things like picking them up or, or blaming them for their behaviour. It's so archaic. It's so, we know so much about ourselves, how our minds work, how our nervous systems work. We know so much about how the dog's brain works and the dog's nervous system works. We know how sensitive and gentle they are. If we push our will onto dogs and force them, to me it's like taking a beautiful flower and crushing it up in your

Oh, oh, wow. God, what a comparison. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's how it should be. We should be kind. We

yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. It's definitely the way we should go and the way we should be. It's actually like you say, we're kind to each other and we need to be kind to dogs, the scent, you know, central beings kindness to all animals. So that takes us nicely onto our next question. So many pet parents and pet guardians still hear outdated advice about being the alpha and inverted commas. How do you think we can change this narrative?

I think we need to become inspiring ourselves.

Yeah.

need to light up a flame in ourselves for the kindness and for the educated services and become the best that we can be in order to touch as many lives as possible. Because if we put in our energy on someone that's harming, giving bad advice, putting all of our special precious resources onto something, and it will only grow. But if we can bring our special resources back to ourselves and say, I am going to be the best that I can be, I'm going to shine on everything around me. We're going to reach more people.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

and,

Love that.

really believe in a lot of the people that harm dogs or hurt dogs in the name of training have actually be harmed or hurt themselves in some way, and to

Absolutely.

them with criticism is going to create a defensive response from them. And that's not going to hurt. That's not going to help anyone.

No,

so, I believe that we need to consider helping through education, but also through kindness and awareness.

yeah, I was going to say it comes back down to education, doesn't it? And, and bringing it back to your, your center, your heart and obviously doing it for your heart. So yeah, I, I get what you're, what you're saying is that people that are doing those type of methods, they've got some sort of trauma or hurt themselves, unfortunately. So if a dog guardian is feeling frustrated, what's one mindset, mindset shift that could help them connect better with their dog?

I think a lot of frustration comes from expectations, I think a

Yeah,

expectations are unreasonable.

yeah,

So I think that if someone is triggered by the way that their dog's behaving, they need to turn back in and say, Why am I triggered? What am I expecting? What are they going through?

yeah, yeah, definitely.

they're giving me a hard time here, they know what they're doing. All of these myths and ideas that dogs know what they're doing. They can be naughty, they're doing this, they're doing that. Actually, our expectations of dogs are very, very high. Our threshold for embarrassment

Yeah,

low. And that

yeah,

I think, to cause frustration with dogs, but if we can say, why am I embarrassed? This is about me, not my dog. I need to look inwards. And also, what am I expecting? And are they actually capable of delivering that? Have I

yeah,

that they can succeed by delivering that?

yeah,

I think that's the thing. It's very much, am I expecting too much?

yeah, I think but there are an unrealistic expectations in life now. You know, everyone sort of wants a quick fix and we, we, you know, we compare ourselves to others, unfortunately, and we're not necessarily prepared to. Be consistent and put in the work. We just want, you know, we want that quick fix. We, we, you know, we're, we're our own worst critics. So like you say, it's about sort of looking in more. Yeah.

I remember when I worked for hearing dogs and, and a kind of a little bit of a culture in hearing dogs for the person that could have the dog the most robotic and clearly they needed to be like that because they were going out to people who weren't dog handlers or trainers. So they needed to have a good standard of like obedience and things so they could walk around the shops and stuff. And. I remember thinking while I was doing it, I am not invested in this. I'm not invested in having this, this, this of obedience from dogs. And so, even back then, I started to to myself, well, back then I would say to myself, I'm not good enough because I'm not invested and I'm not making this dog do exactly what, and it was all very much, I was wrong. Because I wasn't creating these obedient dogs, although I was because I had to because it was my job, but I was wrong because it, I wasn't that invested in it. And I

Silence. Silence. Silence.

didn't matter. So you had all the men like, Heel, heel, and we were like, Our dogs are being exactly as they please. And we loved it.

Oh, that's the way it should be.

But it's never mattered to me, not really. These dogs should be seen and not heard and all of that stuff. And to a point in my life where I started to say actually, I'm not wrong and they're all right. That's not how it is. I just

Mmm.

a different angle and I don't think obedience is important and I'm seeing more and more people saying now dogs get to be who they are.

Yes. Yeah.

and that's amazing.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's nice that we're, more people come around to that way of thinking. You know, why have a, that whole mantra like children you should be seen and not heard and dogs, you know, to me it's, it's rubbish because why have a companion or A friend if you if you're of that if you've got that mindset. Yeah

And it's fun, it's fun seeing dogs doing like climbing all over you, like two hours climbing all over you. It's quite, it's quite nice. Yeah,

you know, you're preaching to the converted of being, you know Having my free two hours and I know you've got your two hours Now as well which we can touch on later. But yeah the two hours are so spirited and full of character and they're just, they're just being dogs. Let them be.

And it's beautiful, it's beautiful.

It is. Thank you, Sally. Moving on to our next section, which is all about rescuing and rehabilitating dogs, including puppy farm. survivors. You've rescued a lot of dogs over the years. You've rescued two even recently, which I, which I love including some ex puppy farm survivors. What would you say are some of the biggest challenges they face? Yeah, yeah,

little dogs, think. A lot of them, my little Holly, she came into my life when she was six, but they say they're all six, and she came through many tears, and she was completely shut down. I think that's what people find hard, if they don't understand these kind of dogs, and what they've been through, and how they've probably never had the human relationship that they should have. I think that they come, they want to rescue them, and they want to love them. And for these little dogs, that's the hardest thing. They just need to be left alone, that they can join in, in their own time, in their own way.

yeah, yeah.

We, we humans, we just, we want to comfort. Come on, give me a hug, I'll comfort you, I'll make you feel better. And there's nothing wrong with that, that's a beautiful human trait. It's just not right trait for dogs who are carrying trauma, have been traumatised or are shut down in this frozen state. Even eye contact with those dogs is too much.

Yeah, I mean even a normal rescue dog. Oh go on my love.

But the beauty of these little dogs is you start to see their eyes shine and it happens overnight. You've got these little blank eyes and then you look at them one day and the tail's going and they're shining and you go there it is you're shining and it's beautiful. Yeah.

God Like because rescue dogs can take up to six months to fully decompress, but obviously these ex puppy farm dogs I mean, like you say they've been through this trauma So it could take even longer. And I picked up on your point. You said they're all six, so I guess they get to the age of six and then they're of no use to the puppy farms, which is awful,

Yeah. And

awful.

I think Holly was a generational puppy farmer. Puppy farm dog as well. 'cause I think she was born there

Okay. Oh, oh,

not really been outdoors. Hearing hadn't developed properly. She couldn't, directional sound, nothing like that that hadn't developed. She'd had, she had like half a tail, so I think she probably chewed that

oh,

at some point,

in stress. Yeah, self mutilation.

she was absolutely allergic to anything green.

Grain? Really?

the plants, she couldn't, she couldn't go on any and I, I believe it's because she'd never built up a, a tolerance to it.

Oh my gosh.

And it's

Oh, oh,

when the come out of a puppy farm. was scratching all the time and she was 6 when she came and she was 13 when she died. she was still showing new sparkles, new behaviours. Even like a week before she died, she was still getting braver. So, yeah.

I guess obviously they would have missed so They would have missed so much key socialization, habituation times, you know, a chance to, like you say, to experience all that. But Holly, Holly did inspire you a lot, didn't she, in your journey?

Yeah, yeah, she well there's her book that's out there.

Yeah.

me a lot because just doing things like problem solving in the house she went from a little worried dog to this wild cardboard box ripper. She was into everything and that helped her confidence wonderfully. You know, she's like,

Oh.

this, so I can do this. Yeah. You'd see her,

Oh,

of her in all sorts. You'd get a delivery from Amazon and she was in there with her three teeth. Yeah.

free tea! Oh, bless her heart. Oh, what a legacy. And so glad that she landed on her paws with you. What would you say is the most important thing people should understand before adopting a rescue dog, Sally?

I think maybe that they are potentially, depending on their history, not going to expect them not to fall in love with you immediately. They've

Hmm.

let down in one way or another. gonna be scared, they're gonna be anxious, and it's gonna be hard for them to trust. But when they do

Hmm.

in love with you, it's gonna be love of a lifetime.

Oh. Yeah.

Yeah.

think as humans, as humans we don't deserve dogs, do we? Yeah. But no, like, with rescue dogs, like I say, it does take that time for them to, you know, to sort of Trust, trust you and build that bond and stuff. So,

Yeah.

do you have a particular, I mean, it might be one of your own, but do you have a particular rescue story that has stuck with you over the years at all?

You know, I think it's got to be

Oh, Chips! Yeah, I know Mr. Chips.

because of

Chips is still around.

Everything that is done through me over the years is, is amazing. 'cause it, it was, the reason that I studied to be a behaviourist was chips. The

Oh, okay.

I started all of the businesses. wrote, wrote all of my books was because Pips did it through me,

Yeah,

He, I, I

yeah.

he, he's this huge dog soul. that came here to create support for dogs. And he came and showed me what I needed to do because he was so complex. I had to learn so much about him. And he literally changed my life.

oh wow,

So I think

aww,

to be Chips. I

cheers, lovely, that's brilliant. So moving on to our, our next section, which is, we've touched on a little bit, obviously life in the military and a rescue, being a rescue dog handler. Your background in the military is so fascinating, but what was that experience like for you?

would never not have done it, but there were some stuff that,

oh,

there

yeah,

stuff. But yeah, I started off training protection dogs. So it was German Shepherds and Rottweilers for apprehending criminals and

wow.

them down. And then I After I'd done that for a while, I went onto arms explosive search, I had a beautiful black Labrador called Jude, and I trained her. She was handed over to the military because her person had cancer, she handed her Jude and her brother Max over to the military, and I trained her as an arms explosive search dog as I was

Wow.

to be a trainer. And then we went to Kosovo together.

Really?

Yeah, it was amazing. We

I didn't know that.

yeah. We, we spent six months in Kosovo and we just looking at that chi hour we spent six months in Kosovo in 99 to 2000. So it was when it was all over the news and everything, and I remember landing and thinking I could die here.

Oh, my word. What was that feeling like? Wow. That feeling that you could die.

and we got given all our stuff because they give you morphine and things to carry about in case you need it and they give you these dog tags. I am not a soldier. I was never any good as being a soldier. At one point, at one point, they gave me these dog tags and they're like a big chain and a short chain. And I asked what a short chain with a dog tag was for, and they said, it's for your big toe. Like, like, you know, if you come home you're not, no longer alive. yeah, I

on your big toe to,

And I, I said, naively, does it not, is it not

oh, my right.

So I was under the impression that you had to wear it on your big toe all the time. But anyway, back to dogs. It

Yeah.

going out and finding weapons and explosives and

Oh, okay.

in Kosovo with the dog that I trained. And then I came away from there, but I had to leave her behind. So

Oh,

over to the next handler, who was actually my friend. So she

okay.

And then I went

Yeah.

Ireland as a drugs dog handler. And

Oh, wow. Wow.

in Northern Ireland and then protection as well. So, But the arms explosive search was good because you could, you did spend a lot of time in helicopters. So they come, you get on the helicopter, they take you out somewhere, you drop, and then what happens with that kind of search dog is the dog goes then the trainer, then you have a cover man with a rifle, and then the engineers come up behind you. So it's very frontline,

Climate.

a great experience.

Wow. God, what an experience. And what a life. So, where, where are you positioned or based anywhere after Northern Ireland or did you come back to the UK or

Ireland. Yeah,

the army? Yeah. Oh, wow. So I didn't realize that I didn't like helicopters So I went in the helicopter for the first time, like 10 years ago in in Las Vegas. And you, you go in the he helicopter to land at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And I didn't realize I, I thought I was gonna love the helicopter, but no, I wasn't a fan of this helicopter. God, it was going up and it was all shaking. I was, I was crapping myself. My husband was laughing, my husband was sat next to me. He was laughing his ass off because he just couldn't believe it. But no, I wasn't a fan of the helicopter, unfortunately. A bit different to your helicopter, I bet, but,

Yeah, it would have Because, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy that, Nathan.

Oh no, I don't really want to go on one again, that's for sure. So, what makes working dogs different from pet dogs, and how do their needs compare?

Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Because let's face it, working

Yeah, that's what they're bred for. Yeah. Yes.

And so these people that work with working dogs, and I've done both. Working dogs for military and companion dogs for hearing dogs. And I can tell you that you need more skill to train a

Yeah.

got a companion dog that's bred to be a companion. They don't really, you know, they'll have a bit of fun but it's all on their terms really. It's not,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are you?

dog, Bichon Frises Shih Tzus those dogs actually being trained to go

Okay. Okay. Excuse me. This is the. This is the.

in my opinion, are so much more skilled than the people who can rein in a German Shepherd with the use of a crappy collar or a threat. Yeah.

Yeah, fascinating.

Yes,

Yeah. That's sad, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

we're only coming now into the point where we starting to recognize and meet their needs. It's not that, not that unusual to go out and see a dog who has behavior issues, who's never done enrichment. You know, it's getting less unusual, but things like a snuffle rug, and a treat ball, and some basic kind of interaction and engagement, lot of dogs haven't even ever had. And people find that when they do that, their behaviours start to settle down naturally.

They do. But, and again, I think that, and that's not really always at the fault of the pet parent or the guardian because they don't know no better and it comes back to education. You wouldn't know that that's what you class as enrichment.

Yeah, and, and it's so, it's kind of rewarding and it's also quite sad to have someone get in touch with you and say, I'm doing this, this and this with her she's a different dog. And that person's actually been to four or five different trainers and have never been told they can use a snuffer rug. And,

Oh my goodness.

They'll kind of say to you, if only I'd met you first.

Yeah.

sad that that's the

It is.

are. a lot of this, you've got to be the boss, is still so prolific, that people are that they are experts and a lot of the people aren't even educated.

No, it's almost like he can shout the loudest.

Yeah,

the time, take the time and observe what's going on. Yeah brilliant. Are there any lessons from working dogs that pet parents can apply to their everyday lives? Good

I think so, yeah. the job, give the dog a job,

job.

yeah. Give them something to do, help them to even use their mealtimes a way to forage or search and I think hands off and up to earth. a little bit of dog body language and then start to observe how the dog's responding, both to them approaching them and also to things around in the environment.

yeah.

of observation because the dog will tell you how they're feeling and also help them to be busy. Do what, their natural needs, do what dogs do. They need, they're needed to find food. If we give them a bowl and they can just eat it, that's a wasted opportunity. They're needed to play, yet so many dogs don't get to play. And it doesn't

No. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

going to happen next, you, you've maybe come from an unpredictable background, and you're in a new house, so everything's unpredictable. Be predictable. Create little patterns that show the dog that they can, they can see what's going to come next, what's going to come after that, what's going to come after that. Let them make little choices because little choices will help them to grow in confidence. So create safety in that way because that will help too.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it comes back to sort of you know, understanding canine body language. Again, I'm a big advocate on, you know, educating pet parents, you know, just, you know, taking a moment, observing, understand, trying to, like, learning about their body language so you can, you know, work out what the dog's trying to, to tell you.

Yeah,

important, isn't it? Brilliant.

free resources to teach you how to watch your dog now. It's just, be absolutely careful about who you choose because there are as many wrong on what a dog's doing as there are good ones. So,

Yeah.

touch and ask where you can look.

Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. I think that's where sort of Yappily comes into play because it's a online directory which is connecting pet parents with ethical, kind, qualified, you know, vetted pet professionals. So always seek out someone like that. Brilliant, thank you so much. We're going to be moving on to our next section, which is the role of writing in DOD, in DOD, in dog advocacy. We mentioned Sally, you've written multiple books on dog behaviour and training. What impact do you hope your writing has on pet parents and dog guardians?

just want people to understand what their dogs need, and I also want, in a, in a, a way that's straightforward, and I also want people to go easier on themselves, because

Mmm.

a lot of pressure on themselves to have a well behaved dog, actually, It's unnecessary pressure,

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

I'm not, I have written dog training books, and I have written step by step dog training books, because people need to have a dog that they can handle. But I've written much, much more about what's going on inside the dog, because I think it's so

Mmm.

that people understand that the dog's trying their best. All the time they're trying their best with what

Yeah.

what they've inherited genetically. also I want people to understand that they are doing their best as well. That they're

Yeah,

best.

yeah, definitely.

so I want the bond to be great. I don't want dogs to be blamed for their behavior. And I don't want people to feel like they are under pressure to have a perfectly behaved dog.

Yeah, definitely, that's so important. If someone is new to your work, Sally, which book or books do you recommend they start with

I think probably the first one, Inspiring Resilience I've

in Spoke?

that and it's being formatted at the moment. So, I think probably by the time that this, this podcast goes out, the new one will be up. But definitely that for General Resilience and the Puppy

Yeah,

if you have a scared dog. Yeah, so that's

it's, it's,

Sorry, Bob.

no, no, so that's called Holly, is it? The puppy farm one.

Folly's one is fearful dog rehabilitation, life with a puppy

That's,

And the other one is inspiring resilience in fearful and reactive dogs.

Lovely,

yeah.

brilliant. I know you said that you're not a practicing behaviourist anymore, but how do you balance your different roles as a mentor, a writer, and a writer? Does each role influence the other?

Does it? I don't think so. I don't think it does. I what I tend to do is I'll either do Mentoring or webinars full on and just focus on that or I'll do a book full on because

Right,

between the two.

I say.

writing tends to bring out a bit of a flow in me. It's like something else is writing through me. And then when I see what's on the page, then I bring that into my mentoring, but more the fundamental being of it as opposed to Perhaps the fact, does that make sense?

Yeah, definitely.

sometimes I write something and go, Whoa, I read that. I didn't really write that. Something wrote that through me. And then that will come up when I'm with a person that I'm mentoring with. So,

So, do you mentor people to be able to start writing for themselves, or? I mean, I wish I could write, but I just don't feel I'm that creative.

you, you probably caught, I think everybody can write, but it's hard to get going.

I know you've inspired a lot of people to get going.

Yeah, I did a couple of writing courses when I had Canine Principals, and that was, I did a 30 day dog writing course dog book writing course, and that put a lot of books out there. They're actually out there, still out there and doing well now. So. Yeah, I think everybody's got a book in them. You could write a book Nathan.

Do you reckon?

Yeah, you could write a book for dog walkers

Could write a book for dog walkers or some sort of memoir. Because I've got an interest in life. I've had an interest in life. Do you, do you have like a, because your life is interesting, do you, have you done a memoir or an autobiography or anything?

No, I've got one I want to write one about chips which is kind of loosely about me as well And I have started

okay.

But you know what? It's like is something else comes up and something else comes up. I'm actually On the screen behind here, there's, there's a novel that I started that I've just got back into now, which is a crime novel, so I'm going to have a go at that. I've another go

You mean you're, you're writing, you're writing a crime novel or you're reading one?

I'm having a go at writing one. Yeah.

Oh wow! Well that's different from dogs.

Yeah.

made you want, what's made you do that or do you just wanted a change?

You know when you read a good book, a really good book, and it makes you feel kind of warm inside, and, and they

Warm and fuzzy.

the end, so there's a bit of like engagement between the characters. And I, when I've finished reading a book like that, I go, feel really nice. I want to do that for other people. And so I want to tell a story, even if I only do one that people can read and escape into and just have a nice day sitting with their dogs, reading a book, and that's what I want to do. I want to give them that feeling. So, yeah.

I love that. And I was thinking you were saying obviously like having the time, but you know, you've got two new additions recently as well, so they're definitely probably keeping you busy,

Oh, great.

Yeah. So yeah, I mean to just tell our listeners you've recently rescued Darcy, who is a Chihuahua mix. And then not so long later 'cause I was trying to tap you up for one of my chihuahuas. You. You, oh yeah, I might still, yeah. And and then all of a sudden Miss Foxy appears. Another Chihuahua. Because you said to me for a while you wanted a Chihuahua and now you've got two.

Yeah, I shoot, David, I, what happened was because we've got two 15 year old terriers and they're proper old men And they

Oh boys, and I did one of

Didn't want to play. And really played in her foster home So I was like, do I get another one now so that Darcy's got a playmate that then I've just got the two Moving forward when the boys get and I got in touch with the rescue that Darcy came from and she said we have a very, very nervous chihuahua they didn't advertise because they said she's so tiny that if If we advertise her, everybody's going to want her, but not everybody's going to have the skill to deal with her.

Yes,

and so I ummed and I ah'd, and I ummed and I ah'd, and I was like, should I, shouldn't I? And they kept getting back in touch with me and saying, Foxy started playing, Foxy started playing with the other dog. And you know what, Nathan, I believe very much in things happening for a reason.

same.

in Carlisle and

Right,

my dad used to be married to a lady who lived in Carlisle

okay.

My dad died and she married again and she was a very close friend and she was my step mom for a while. And She died recently, Helen did, I went up, I said, where's Fox? I was going up to see Paul, her husband, and give support, I said, where is Foxy? And she was like 15 minutes away from Paul,

Oh, okay.

but four hours away from me.

Oh, okay.

Yeah,

had you have not been going to see, had you have not been going to see Paul, you wouldn't have got, you wouldn't have been able to see Foxy then. So everything happens for a reason.

Yeah, I think it was almost like the universe said, Okay, you've got two reasons to go up here. Two are equally important. Two means you've got to go. So I went. Yeah.

Hmm.

So.

Right. So you've got Foxy who's like a long haired Chihuahua and then Darcy here is a Chihuahua cross.

Yeah. But the moment I walked into the foster home and saw Foxy, because I wasn't going to bring her home. I was like I was still not sure, I just was gonna meet her, see, you know, whether I ought to bring her home and I took Chips and Darcy with me and I walked in and I saw this thing about that big under the dining table going like that I went, you're coming home with me. And she did.

Oh, really? You took her home?

Yeah.

I love that and what a great name as I mean, like you say, they said she was a bit nervous but Foxy to me is quite a, a bold, brave name so I'd imagine from what I'm seeing she's starting to find her feet and settle, isn't she?

she is. I wake up in the morning and she's stood on my chest looking in my face wagging her tail.

Oh, I love it and I just love that. I love you've got your chai's finally. Sally God, we've sailed through this episode, so we're gonna, for the last sort of five to seven minutes, we're gonna sort of sort of wrap up and just go over some final questions and points. But yeah, what an amazing story and, you know, you're an inspiration, Sally, you really are. If there's one thing that you wish all dog guardians knew, what would it be?

What other people think doesn't matter.

Mm hmm. Absolutely.

because I always say I have no shame if

Mm.

dog and my dog's reacting or. People are looking on, they're none of my business. My dog's my

No.

And,

Yeah.

that's, if you have to walk away from someone to help your dog feel better, then do that. doesn't matter what people think of you, doesn't matter what people think of your dog's behaviour, the only thing that's your business is your wellness and their wellness.

Yeah. So don't, don't worry about anyone else. Isn't there a saying that those that mind matter or those that don't mind don't, I don't know, I've probably got it completely wrong. But no yeah, just concentrate on, you know, your, you and your, your dog and, you know, your world and don't worry about anyone else. Cause. You know, they're on their journey, you're on yours, so just, well yeah, like you say, don't worry about what other people think.

No.

for someone, for someone who has just rescued a dog and feels overwhelmed, what would you say to them?

I would say that I've felt overwhelmed with every single dog that I've rescued initially, and never regretted seeing it through. You get, you get the dog that you get for a reason, that dog will teach you something so very important as part of your journey.

Brilliant,

And so, stick with it, and just try to stay aware, it does,

yeah.

is hard at the beginning. Foxy peed on my bed about six times and, and, I mean, I'm sure, you know, it is hard at the beginning, but what you're dealing with is a little animal who doesn't know where they're at, may have been let down, may have had their heart broken, and they will get better. Yeah.

Yeah. Time. Time's a healer.

Yeah,

Just takes time.

and they don't live long enough, and so even the hard times, at least there are times with your dog.

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. And what would you say is the most rewarding part of working with and writing about dogs?

It's when people come to you and say, your book changed my relationship with my dog.

Oh, wow. That's so powerful.

Because

Yeah.

because I'm like most other people in the dog world. In the dog world, the people that are educated and do continue to work, I don't have much, a great deal of self belief in myself or my work. And so, it always surprises always really nice when somebody says, Your, your book really helped me get through those first few months. And, and it, it's beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah, that's weird. Makes it really, really rewarding and makes it all worth it. And yeah so Sally, I'm going to put you on the spot. Here's a question. I've not prepared you for, but we've got lots of amazing. Well, we've got lots of amazing guests lined up for the yappy hour. We've got behaviors. dog trainers vets, groomers lots of different people that we've got coming on over the next couple of months. But if there was one person that you think that we should invite on the yappy hour within our canine industry, who would that be and why?

Ah, I think you've already had him. The the

that's,

the person who I've seen speak that's had the most impact for me is Andrew Hale.

yes,

He's, he's the most amazing man. and I did a, a retreat, a holiday and he came and

You,

on

you, you did. Yes, I remember seeing something about that.

Yeah, he had mean

Oh,

He had the ruby tears. He's just, he's,

really?

people that is just like a heart. He's a heart in the world. So, yeah,

He is. No, so Andy Howe was, was, was my first guest on the Yappy Hour. And to the point where, obviously, I had to record the first episode. And I, and I, and I nearly chickened out. So, not a lot of people will know this, but the first episode, I had a bloody cold. Like I have got again now. It was December. So I rearranged him between Christmas and New Year. And it was coming up and I was talking myself out of doing this recording of this first episode and Andy, he is, he was just amazing. He was so understanding and supportive and he was like, look, I'll help you get through it. Like I was like, oh, can we meet a little bit later than we planned? And he said, that's fine. But if you can't do today, I'm free tomorrow. And he was just amazing. He was my first guest and, like I said, I nearly, I nearly pulled out. I didn't think I could go through with it and he was just really helpful and supportive and yeah, he's just one of life's gems or just everyone that meets him says the same and what a. What a space to be, to be in, to be, you know, to be that person. So Andy will be coming back on as well. So he was my first guest, but we will be getting him back on. So that's great. So I'm glad you've said Andy. Sally, how can our listeners find out more about you or if they want to get in contact with you? Let us know your email address, your website, your social handles.

Okay, so it's just sally That's my

Nice.

My

Lovely.

is Sally Gutridge writer. And my email is sally@sallygutridge.com. So, that,

Nice, nice and easy.

Yeah,

And your, your book, your books are on Amazon and I'm sure other bookstores, but there's lots of books on Amazon and Kindle versions. So yeah,

I do try to answer every email that I get. If I miss any, if I miss an email, just send another one because it doesn't mean that I've ignored it, just means that I've, I've missed it. So,

life, life gets in the way.

for looking like a corpse.

You,

my skin looks

no,

bad.

to me earlier today, was it a video podcast? And I was like, yeah, sorry, it's going on YouTube. And I was like, you were like, oh, don't. I don't feel well, you know, and I was like, oh bless you, like, I've got my, I'm full of cold and cough, you're full of cold and cough, and we're both, and we're both still here, and you know, we're, we're both still here, but no, thank you. for taking the time to be with me today, Sally, on the Yappy Hour. You've got such a, an amazing story. And I just wanted to, you know, hear and learn more about it. I know our listeners will take so much away from this. Sally, I love the bones of you. You're, you're an inspiration. You know, I'm so glad that, you know, that dogs brought you into my life and that you, you know, that you've helped many other dog parents dog professionals and, and the little dogs, you know, you are amazing. And you, you definitely should believe in yourself because I think you're one of life's amazing people, like Andy as well. So, Sally. Thank you Yappy Hour today, powered by Yappily, and I'll see you again soon.

Yeah, thank you for inviting me. And yeah, been lovely speaking up with you.

Sally.