Welcome to Close it now, the podcast that's revolutionizing the H Vac and home improvement trades industries.

Get ready to dive deep into the world of heating, ventilation and air conditioning.

We're turning up the heat on industry standards and cooling down misconceptions.

And we're not just talking about fixing vents and adjusting thermostats.

It's about the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H Vac and home improvement.

We're the driving force, inspiring top performers who crave excellence not only in their professional endeavors, but also in fitness, nutrition, relationships, and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all.

This is Close it now, where excellence meets excitement.

Let's get to work.

Now, your host, Sam Wakefield.

Well, all right.

Well, Peter, got a question for you.

Why in the world would you think about getting into a call center for heating and air and for trades, man?

Come on.

I love how you just jump straight into the meat and potatoes, man.

Let's.

Let's go.

Two.

Two reasons.

Number one, few.

Shoulder season.

Yeah, no kidding.

Can we start there?

I.

It's.

It's so, you know, because I work in multiple home services, trades, industries, sectors, verticals, whatever you want to call it.

And man, it's the only, you want to know, the only industry that has the word shoulder season.

I think you already know where I'm going with this H Vac.

No other.

And guess what?

Every other industry is seasonal.

Don't think that, like, oh, I'm an H Vac.

It's seasonal.

I gotta just boohoo.

I gotta deal with it.

You're not the only one.

Every industry is seasonal.

Not just you guys.

Every single one.

But yet no one goes around and parades this.

This term shoulder season and clings to it like a.

Like a.

Like a binky, you know, it's almost like, literally, it's like, excuse.

It's the crutch.

If you haven't built a solid business, it is.

People have just come to expect that.

Well, it's shoulder season.

I get.

Woe is me.

I guess business is going to suck for the next few months.

No time to double down, buddy.

Like, time to get creative.

Time to, like, put the thinking cap on and get, you know, put.

Put those wheels in motion.

Like, so that's.

I mean, and I think that's kind of like, you know, that's a huge central kind of, you know, tenant as to, like, why.

But the other big one is like, guys, you, You.

You can actually do this whole thing, like at wholesale.

You can own your Own lead generation company.

People don't just have to buy overpriced leads from other sources to sell them to you.

Crazy concept craziness.

Yes, thank you.

You can come sell for me.

Well, rumor has it I know a little bit about selling stuff.

Yeah.

You and I have known each other a few minutes, haven't we?

Yeah, we have.

Yeah, man, seriously, like this.

People.

People think that, like.

Well, I guess that's just a cost of doing business.

I gotta pay some other company a hefty profit to generate leads for me and Hope Capital.

H O P E. Hope that they don't rip me off this time like the last guy did.

It's like, come on, guys like you absolutely can own your own legion.

I'll even show you how to do it.

You don't even need to pay me.

I'll show you how to do it yourself.

Where?

You don't even need to pay me.

Of course I'll do a better job for you if you did pay me, but come on, you.

You.

I'm.

I'm dead serious.

Like, you can absolutely do this yourself if you have some degree of experience.

You can't.

I'll get into it.

I'll get into it.

Oh, this is awesome, man.

I love it.

Well, I'm glad we started that way because, you know, something that I've thought about for a long time and for everybody listening, you know.

Welcome to the Close it now podcast.

Our guest today is Peter Roth with Scalify.

He is.

Him and I go way back.

In fact, we did an episode a couple years ago where we really dove into some of these concepts around solar.

And so if you go back and listen to that, if you are interested, thoughtful about.

And of course we can dissect what's going on in solar right now because it's.

There's a big, beautiful topic we can talk about with solar that is very controversial as everyone.

If you know anything about that, you may know, but we won't spend much time there.

But more importantly, you know, honestly, I think it doesn't matter what industry we're in because at this point, Close it now is not.

We're not just H Vac anymore.

Yes, that's the main number of people that we talk to.

But holy cow.

Had a coaching call this morning with a plumber.

Last month I spent a week with an electric company up in Michigan.

I've talked to garage door companies this week.

In fact, I did a training for both a digital marketing company and for a company that coaches property managers of all things.

And so the philosophies and closed house has grown to the place where this is such a valuable conversation, I think for everybody.

Listening is everybody's seasonal.

You may not think you are, but there's rises and falls in business.

And we've got to stop making the just leaning on that as the excuse to grow our business.

The mental shift that I always train people is we go from, you know, when somebody has an excuse, change the brain into how can I, how can we do this?

How can we accomplish?

And it forces the brain to get creative, change it to what conditions would need to be true for this to be a positive instead of a negative.

And how do we stop being lazy and take responsibility for our businesses and for our own lead generation and don't just let it happen to us, we create it.

And so enter Peter Roth and what you're doing.

So I'm super curious though.

Call centers, for years and years, that's always been a, everybody's, oh, somebody's calling me.

And you know, this mixed bag.

It's kind of like when we talk about door knocking, you know, it's like some people love it, some people hate it, some people don't understand it.

In fact, most people don't understand it.

Same thing with call centers.

I think let's start there because I'm super curious.

One, how did you get into that?

Because when you and I met, you were, you had just exited your bar, slash, love the puppy dogs.

You just exited the bar and your, your awesome cigar lounge, still did the mail order cigars and had just bought in and purchased your first H Vac company when we first met, gosh, what, six years ago now.

And then you've had this crazy journey.

So how'd you go from, you know, distributing and dealing cigars across the country in mail order to call center?

Because it's definitely a, that those dots don't really connect.

Yeah, I know.

And my answer to it is just going to confuse you even more.

I got sued.

I got sued my way into this business.

It's very true.

I literally got sued my way into this business.

I'll wrap up this story quickly.

So I, I was in the cigar business.

I'm still in the cigar business after 22 years now.

And I, but then I opened up this really cool cigar lounge.

We were like featured in Cigar Aficionado, all the major media publications.

And I, I was in kind of like a glorified strip mall type thing where I had neighbors above and to the side of me.

And my, my neighbor claimed that my Smoke was seeping into their space.

So they were claiming nuisance violation.

And so my landlord tried suing, tried evicting me through a lawsuit to get me out of the space because he claimed that I was causing this nuisance.

Turns out I wasn't at all.

Turns out that neighbor of mine wasn't able to make ends meet.

Their business was failing and they couldn't get out of their.

Out of their lease.

And their attorney basically said, you know, the only, one of the only ways to get out of your lease is if one of your neighbors is creating a nuisance that's beyond your control.

Well, that's beyond your control that can get you out of your contract.

Like, well, perfect neighbors, a cigar bar.

Let's just look for an excuse.

Let's just blame the smoke.

Yeah.

And they ended up closing doors anyway.

Twice I got sued.

Both times I won the lawsuit because they couldn't prove that there was an actual problem and I could prove that there wasn't one.

And so in the process of getting sued, the first judge told me that I have to at least make some sort of effort anyway to improve the ventilation system.

And so I called these.

And at the time, I knew nothing about H Vac.

I could barely even operate my own thermostat.

And so I called some local commercial H Vac companies, not even residential.

I went straight to the commercial side and those guys showed up there and saw this idiot me and went, oh, we're just going to gouge the garbage out of this guy.

And sure.

And they sure did.

35.

Are you kidding me?

I got charged $65,000 to put in.

I don't even remember at the time.

It was just a small rooftop exhaust unit with like a 10 foot ducting run underneath it.

I mean, it was nothing.

$65,000.

And I like, here's the check, man.

That happened to me twice.

And then finally on like with the third round, the guy who showed, the guy who showed up was like, working for this company.

He was like an independent contractor working for this company.

Lo and behold, he and I became like best friends pretty much.

And he just kind of started showing up, just doing work for me on the side.

He's like, hey, I got some creative ideas.

I think we can get this done, like, way cheaper.

Let's not even use the traditional methods that all these companies are suggesting.

I think they're all full of shit.

Let's.

Let's do this my way.

I think I got a better idea.

And he's super creative.

He was like the you know, he was like, the MacGyver.

Yeah, he was totally MacGyver.

I'm not kidding.

He literally was tinkering, and he's patented multiple things since then.

So.

Very cool.

Yeah.

And so, sure enough, like, he actually did come up with multiple solutions that would cost me, like, hundreds of dollars instead of tens of thousands of dollars.

And lo and behold, they actually worked.

And so then he approached me, like, maybe a couple years later.

He's like, hey, you know what I mean?

I obviously know what I'm doing when it comes to H Vac.

How about I be the wrench Turner?

How about you be the white collar guy and you run the sales and marketing?

Like, that's the thing you're good at.

Why don't you do that?

I'll do my thing.

We don't need to step on each other's toes.

I'll let you run with it.

You want to start an H Vac company?

And eventually I was like, all right, let's do it.

And so we built it from the ground up.

So we built, you know, I mean, like I told you, I knew nothing, so I had to, you know, I was reaching out to guys like you.

I was reaching out to everyone that I could think of who I could just soak up as much information as I could.

And in rec, I mean, you saw it in record time.

I went from zero knowledge whatsoever to being pretty damn good.

You know, the whole sales and marketing department, you know, concept of.

Of running an H Vac company.

So, I mean, like, I miss it.

You know, we sold it, and I miss it.

To this day, I miss the H Vac industry.

So I'm glad that I'm.

I'm glad that I'm in it, you know, doing it now on this side where I can help other companies, because I really do miss it.

Yeah, well, you know, I think that's really fun because there's so many, quote, unquote, if anybody spends any time on social media, you're gonna see this thrown around.

All the quote, unquote gurus out there that they come in and, you know, have some interesting sort of angle on how they're gonna blow up these businesses.

And, you know, more than half the time, they don't have practical experience in the field.

And so I think that's what sets guys like you and me apart.

You know, I've been in the industry 20 years.

You know, just about every mistake that can be made, I've made it is why I can speak with authority when I'm training people and you know, you went from zero, started a company, grew it, sold it and took an exit and then realized that there is a big opportunity to help other people, you know, do very similar things.

And one of the things I've always appreciated about you is you've always been very authentic when it comes to that.

But let's take a step through a little bit because if everybody that listens to the show, if you go back and listen to the episodes and listen to the journey.

I spent three years in Solar myself and that was you.

And I actually took that step almost together at the same time.

And then our paths started to diverge a little bit.

In the end, this the way that we approached it.

But tell us about that and then.

And get us caught up to where we are now because I think that's like the next.

Yeah, clearly the next evolution.

Yeah.

When we were exiting the H Vac space, I was looking for something else to delve into because I knew that I couldn't carry forward in the H Vac because I didn't know how to even, you know, I didn't know anything on the technical side of things.

So.

And I didn't want to go trust.

I was, no, I was about to go interviewing potential partners to go do that.

Unless you lived here, I would have contacted you if you lived here in Colorado, for sure, you would have been probably the only other guy on this planet I would have trusted to do that sort of a thing.

But it's hard enough to find a technician who isn't a literal crackhead.

Yeah.

So the odds of.

The odds of me finding a technician who could also bear the responsibility of being an owner and a partner and that isn't a crackhead, was in my mind almost impossible.

And it would have been a.

A ten year journey trying to find that person.

I would have died of old age before it would have happened.

So I was like, you know what?

That's just not realistic.

It's probably not going to happen.

So let me stay in the home services space because I really, really actually enjoyed the home services space a lot.

I was just good at it and it just made a lot of sense to me and I just could connect those dots really fast.

It felt simple to me and so I was looking for something else.

You know what you and I talked about solar.

You pretty much convinced me that that was a great way to go and you were right to a large extent.

And.

And that's when I realized there's a lot of holes in the solar.

There's a Lot of problems in solar.

It's a funky industry, way different, super different than anything else.

I think that's an understatement.

In fact, yes, it is the understatement of the, of the century.

It is the most funky industry in a bad way.

It is the most funky industry that exists.

And you know, if you're, you're watching this and you don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I'll give you just like a quick little teaser, like here's one of the reasons why solar is so funky.

It's that first of all, in solar it's a one and done sale, right?

Like the lifetime value of a solar customer is pretty much one time.

You know, like you sell them solar for the most part once, maybe you'll get lucky, maybe, maybe 10 years later they're sell their house and buy another one and call you back if they haven't lost your number and you haven't already moved on to.

Yeah, like, so the odds of that happening is like almost impossible.

So basically it's a one time, it's a one and done thing.

And so because of that and there's no maintenance, there's no warranty, there's no, there's no monthly maintenance plans or tune ups or anything like that.

So it's like a, you know, it's literally done one and done.

So in solar there is no pipeline for sales guys to tap into, to have a lead source.

So unlike in H vac or roofing or windows or whatever, you name it, all those other industries, your company that you work for has a pipeline of customers that probably need help in whatever way.

Right.

They either need maintenance done or tune ups done or whatever the case may be.

Right.

Just depending on your outage is what service drive sells.

Yeah.

And so you've got a pipeline that you can tap into and you turn those into sales or you turn those into opportunities.

Solar, like I just said, that doesn't exist because of the whole one and done thing.

So these companies do not.

And that's oddity number one.

Oddity number two is that because of, because of that these companies don't have salespeople on staff because they can't keep them busy.

So why on earth would you pay someone a salary if you can't even provide them with leads?

It doesn't make any sense.

So instead the whole concept of the sales organization exists in solar, whereas it doesn't exist in anywhere else.

And if you probably don't, don't know what a sales organization is I don't blame you because I didn't know either.

A sales organization is basically a team of mercenaries who work for themselves, who are independent sales guys, who are not beholden, who are not obligated, who have no relationship to any other installation company.

They're just for hire sales guys and they'll do sales for any company out there and.

But they got to provide their own leads.

Right?

It's understood that since, hey, you don't work for me, you got to go get your own leads and then I'll pay you once you close the deal, I'll go pay you your percentage or your commission or your profit, whatever you want to call it, I'll pay you to go do that.

So my point is, is that they don't get leads, so they got to get their own leads.

Hence why door knocking is such a common thing in the solar space.

Because it works.

I mean, it just works, right?

We can't argue that.

It definitely works.

Yes.

One of the highest ROIs for your effort, zero to do.

And there was this huge mind blowing moment for me when I realized I can literally just walk around, talk to people and become a millionaire.

I was like, holy freaking crap, this is cool.

Yeah, I mean, it's not fun, right?

Like, no one's going to argue that it's super duper fun, but it works.

It 100% works.

So if you're not against it, I don't know.

I had a blast, I think.

And that's great, you know, like some people do absolutely love it.

That's just not my thing.

Cut out for it.

You got to be cut out for it.

Absolutely.

And that's just not everybody.

And I get it if it's not you, well, then that's unfortunate.

Right now you got to find something else.

And so in solar, like I said, like in solar, you have to go basically go door knock.

Because unless you've got a bunch of disposable cash sitting around to come up with other creative ways to get leads, door knocking is your only other option.

And that's where I saw this opportunity.

I was like, man, this is weird.

Like, so strange.

I.

It was all foreign to me, this door knocking, no leads.

So bizarre mercenaries.

What the hell's going on here?

And so that's why I was like, God, I need to be in the lead gen.

I need to go back into the lead generation space.

And then that's where I just invested all my time and effort, was 100% into the Legion.

Now I had to learn how to sell it.

So I became really, really good at that too, because I had to get good at that first.

Then I.

And then at the concurrently.

At the same time, I was building up my chops on the lead generation side.

And the way that I got into Call Cent was simply through trial and error.

It was just very simply trial.

I just tried everything.

I was just doing everything that was out there and I was doing virtual sales.

In other words, we weren't going into the home at all.

We were literally closing everything over the phone or zoom, which is harder.

Lower closing percentage.

You're not belly to belly, so of course it's going to be harder.

Speak to that for sure.

Yeah, it's harder.

In two years, I put up 100 projects and 70, 65% of that was virtual.

That's fantastic.

I didn't even know that about you.

That's fantastic.

And so most guys are deathly afraid of virtual because they know, they've heard the stories that it's a much lower closing percentage and people flake on you, so on and so forth.

And so I tried everything, right?

I did all the usual stuff.

I did all the usual advertising channels, tried everything.

And the, I didn't, I didn't jump into the call center thing on day number one.

It's not like I just started building out this like full fledged call center.

No, I did it piece by piece, right?

Lego by Lego.

And then just one day I realized, holy shit, I think I have a call center going here.

You know, we just upgrade everything one bit at work.

Yeah, I would just upgrade all my components one bit at a time.

Until one day I realized I had a call center.

Now that took me a long time.

It took me two and a half years or something like that, almost three years to get to that point.

But at the end of the day, what I realized was like, oh my God.

The one thing that's actually really, really working effectively and is very scalable is the call center.

And lo and behold, man, it's like, then you know that as I delved more and more into it and became more of, more of a specialist and expert in that field, realism like this can absolutely work for not every industry, but most, most especially home services industries, this can absolutely work.

And so that's why I'm here now.

I love it.

I love it.

That's a, that's a cool journey.

And I could definitely vouch for, you know, for everybody listening, you know, especially at the origins, you know, Peter and I, he would bounce, we'd bounce scripts back and forth and you know, help each other out.

It's like, oh, man, yeah, this, change this, improve this.

And so I know that, you know, what you.

What you have is rock solid, but I'd love to go over a little bit about some pros and cons of call centers.

Sure.

Because I know that it's one of those things that, you know, a lot of companies, the larger of the companies in the home services, H vac, or you name it, companies usually end up combining into H vac, plumbing, electrical, or whatever it is.

Once a company hits a certain size, they end up basically developing their own call centers for this very reason.

The problem is most of them are strictly inbound.

So I'd love to talk about that first because just give us a high level view of the difference in inbound and outbound call centers.

It's super ironic.

You just.

It's so ironic that you brought that up because literally yesterday I was on the.

I was on Zoom with like three different H Vac owners talking about this.

And in every other industry, the term call center, it's just assumed.

The.

Everyone just assumes it means outbound telemarketing, outbound lead generation.

It's just assumed.

No one even questions it.

Except in H Vac.

In H vac, Everyone I talked to yesterday, it's just ironically, yesterday.

I don't know why, but ironically, yesterday, every.

The three guys that I talked.

The three company owners I talked to, all were confused about exactly what you just said.

They all were like, now, Peter, let me just.

I guess I'm a little confused.

Like, you're building an inbound call center, like, for CSR work.

How is that going to help me grow my business?

I'm like, yeah, no, I get it, I get it.

This industry has a whole different understanding what a call center means.

Yeah.

So break it down for us then and now.

I understand.

And I always understood why.

Just because in this industry, there is so much inbound calling coming on.

Hey, my AC is broken.

It's hot as balls outside.

Come help me.

Right, so there's a lot of inbound calls coming in.

That doesn't happen, obviously in solar.

Right.

That doesn't happen in solar.

There is no inbound traffic.

What's whatsoever?

Roofing.

Very, very little.

Even in roofing, they have to do everything outbound.

But in H Vac, you guys, you're very lucky.

If you're an H Vac, be happy, be thankful, because you're in probably one of the sexiest industries for just sheer traffic, inbound traffic.

Because people need service, people need this stuff.

Yeah, it's one of the only need based industries.

Yes, they'll be very thankful.

So if you're sitting here at home right now going, well, I don't think I'm going to get out of H hvac.

Don't, don't like be very thankful because every other, any other industry you're going to switch to is going to be worse way, massive downgrade.

So be thankful that you're an H vac because you guys have it very, very good.

Now just get better, talk to Sam.

Just get better at what you do.

Talk to Sam because he'll make you better and I'll help you get leads.

But like talk to Sam because you just need to fine tune your process.

Because the fact that like, like I said, those three conversations that are all three people on all three calls were both confused or well, all three confused touches on this point that like they all assumed that call center just means inbound.

Inbound CSRs.

And that's when I was like, oh God, I should probably fix that.

You're right, I should put the word outbound in there because I thought it was implied and turned it turns out, no, it's not implied.

People think, oh, we're just, you know, yeah, well you can answer our phones after hours and on weekends for us.

Yeah, but how's that going to build my, how's that going to like, how's it going to generate me new sales?

And I was like, oh, now I see.

Okay, yeah, so to answer everyone's questions, no, inbound is not my thing.

We can do it too.

But that's not my thing.

My thing is bringing you new money, found money, free money, money that didn't exist otherwise.

New leads, brand new leads, new customers you've never heard of before.

So outbound telemarketing sales.

So we build call centers for the purpose of having cold calling agents call homeowners in your area and generate interest and get your, get you in home appointments.

Now here's the, here's the best part about it all is that like I think I mentioned this, like, you know, owning a call center is a massive, massive benefit because you own your own lead generation company now because you own every single part of the process.

You're not outsourcing anything, you're not buying anything at retail, at least through me.

If you come through me, you're going to get wholesale on absolutely everything.

And you're not beholden to me for anything.

So if you want to get your leads and your data from another provider, cool, go for it.

You want to recruit from somewhere else, go for it.

I don't care.

I'm not forcing you to do anything through me.

So you're going to get everything at true wholesale.

And now you've got leads in home appointments coming in exclusive just to you in home appointments coming in at wholesale.

Like that's.

That's exciting.

That should.

If you're not excited, you should.

That's pretty cool.

Years and years ago in church, they used to say, if that doesn't light your fire, your woods wet.

Yeah.

So let's talk about this though, because there is a stigma around anything outbound, especially when it's tied to, you know, industries like specifically the big three H vac, plumbing and electrical.

You know, I hear the same thing when I talk about doors.

And I know that the sentiment is the same because I've had this conversation with owners and managers about doing outbound stuff.

The concern is, well, how are you?

Are we hounding people?

There's so many bad apples in the call center world where they're doing this.

The reason some states have such strict rules about the way that call centers work, because so many people over the years have been abused and lied to, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So talk to us about that aspect of it because I feel like there's a misconception around how to do it properly.

And what companies don't want to come across as that company that is just the overly aggressive force that down people's throats company.

That's why sometimes they're resistant to more outbound type of traffic.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Like it was.

It's interesting that you said that because I haven't heard that.

And I would have thought you would have thought that I would have heard all that, you know, all that negativity.

Probably because those with people that think that are not reaching out to you.

Yeah, I mean, I don't do that sort of.

I mean, obviously I don't.

That's as new.

I've never even heard that there's a lot of scammer going on in solar.

There is in solar scammer for sure, but not an H Vac.

So, like, that kind of is weird that, that even that that notion is flying around because, you know, the two main approaches that we're taking is the.

There's kind of like the opening phase.

So like when my clients build a new call, so I wouldn't call center with us, I let them do however they want to do it.

First of all, I'm just Here to give you advice, right?

I'm just here to give you guidance.

And my guidance to a new client would be, hey, let's get some quick wins first.

I want you to make your money back as, like, as soon as humanly possible.

So you feel good about your purchase with me, right?

Step number one, feel good about everything.

And I'm very on, I say those exact words.

I'm like, I want you to feel good about your purchase.

I want you to make your money back asap, right?

And then we can start working and then, and then we can start doing the bigger batter cooler stuff.

But like for right now, let's just start getting massive, massive quick cash flow.

Very, very quick.

And as you can imagine, that's through basic tune ups.

Let's get your foot in the door.

Inexpensive tune ups.

Get into some homes.

Let's start building a big fat customer pipeline base real quickly, all right?

And that's very low pressure, low resistance, easy to do.

And no, I mean, I'm gonna guess if you wanted to scam people and your heat exchanger is leaking and you're gonna be dead from carbon monoxide poisoning by this later this afternoon unless you fix your system, I suppose, yeah, that would be some scammy bullshit.

Like don't, don't do that.

Right?

First rule of sales, don't lie, cheat or steal.

Yeah.

How about just, let's just don't do that, okay?

Exactly.

Okay.

Step number one, don't be a dick.

Step number two, just be honest.

Right?

So this isn't that hard.

But so, you know, we start with the tune ups.

And again, you don't have to, if you, you can do this however you want.

It's your call center.

You call it, you call the shots.

I'm just here to give you guidance.

So step number one, I usually tell people, start with the tune up.

Step number two, then we can start transitioning into low volume, high ticket.

And then we start going into system replacements.

And as you can imagine, that'll be lower volume, but obviously higher ticket.

And so I don't like starting there just because that can discourage people because it is a lower volume game.

As you can, you know, as you can imagine, no different.

I mean, any business owner, I get them all the time too.

I mean, how many emails are LinkedIn inboxes you get?

Could you use 20 to 30 new installs this month from all of, from so many places?

So it was like, how do we separate ourselves from.

How do you separate yourself from that type of noise also?

Yeah.

And then so you asked another important question.

I think probably the most important question you asked was like this, this works, Peter.

Like really like, because so many people think like, that doesn't work.

Come on.

No one's, no one gives a shit.

Like who's gonna answer their phone?

All right, fine.

Come out here from a cold call.

Call.

And guess what?

You're right to an extent.

You're right 99, you're right 99% of the time.

But that's what a call center is.

High volume.

It's.

The point is, yes, you are right.

You're 100%, you're 99% right.

But the point is we're only looking for the 1% and this all happens behind the scenes.

So it's not like you're going to even care.

It's a high volume game.

Our agents are generally making between 3 to 400 real live stream human contacts every single day.

And they're only going to be booking two, maybe three appointments a day.

That's less than 1%, right?

So I just told you 99% of the time, you're right.

I wasn't making that number up.

I was literally 99%.

Because we're only hoping for a 1.1percent response or a 1% conversion rate.

We're only looking to convert 1 or less.

Less than 1% of all the contacts that we make will convert into a real appointment.

So yes, you're right 99% of the time.

It doesn't work.

But all I care about is that 1% because that 1% turns into big numbers real fast.

You got 10 agents calling each book in two appointments a day.

You want to tell me that 20, 20 brand new customers every single day is.

You don't want that.

That's.

Yeah, that's not for me.

I'm pretty sure just about any size organization that that's enough to get you excited.

And I think the big one of the confusion pieces here is, especially in the trades industries, is we've been educated to the hilt on advertising and marketing.

However, the big piece that's always been missing that nobody truly gets is what prospecting is.

And this is a form of prospecting.

So I'd love for you to take a second and talk about, just give us a overview of the difference, because there is a major difference.

Marketing is sitting around waiting for stuff to come to you through intelligent action.

Okay, I'm not badmouthing marketing.

Everyone needs to get it.

You don't have to have it.

Oh, no.

Everyone should be a master.

Everyone needs all three components I'm not trying to disparage marketing when I say yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marketing is doing intelligent, thoughtful work so that people come to you.

Right.

Smart.

Absolutely.

You should be doing that.

You should be.

Mostly you should be doing that.

And then prospecting is going out and getting them for yourself.

Prospecting is taking the action to go do it on your own.

Now you don't need to do it by yourself.

Obviously you can outsource that sort of a thing.

Which is exactly, you know, what I'm talking about here.

And there's multiple ways of doing that.

You know, and we talked about door knocking.

And door knocking, whether you like it or not, is highly, highly effective.

It's extraordinarily effective in almost every home services industry.

It's just unconventional for some, like, you know, for solar it's a dime a dozen.

Like almost every single guy in solar door knocks.

But in H Vac it's highly unconventional.

Right.

But it doesn't have to be.

In H Vac is just not so conventional because of the pipeline thing we talked about earlier.

Because people already have a pipeline so there's just not a big need for.

Created the sentiment of well, I don't have to do that, I'm too good for it.

Well, yeah.

And that, that's exactly how I thought until I got into solar.

And now that's why I'm.

I come back into hrac.

Isn't that amaz when your ego gets left back.

When your ego gets left by the door.

What a difference it makes for your production.

They're like, what leads?

And they laughed at me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So here's.

So I kind of look at it like this.

You know, prospecting is, it's like completing.

It's like building a puzzle.

And then wow, there's like the say it's a puzzle that, you know, a thousand piece puzzle.

And we built this great company and all of these things and prospecting the outbound to get clients through avenue, through vehicles like door knocking and call center.

I feel like the puzzle is incomplete because it's like if it was a picture of us two sitting together, our faces would be missing.

It's literally we're leaving pieces out of a complete business picture if we're not doing prospecting.

I had actually heard a great definition for prospecting.

It's looking for the most likely buyer right now.

Prospecting, it's just like panning for gold.

You're just looking for the piece right now.

You're going to sift through thousands of pounds of dirt to find you know, 30 pounds of gold, but it's worth it.

So here is, in my mind are the two main pros and cons of door knocking.

The one big pro and con of door knocking.

Number one, belly to belly, face to face.

Right?

Undeniably a huge benefit.

Undeniably huge benefit.

Con.

Well, it's hard.

Okay, well, I guess I wouldn't even.

That should be on my list.

Number one, it's hard.

It's, it's not.

Everyone enjoys doing it.

I get.

You have to respect that.

But number two, it's a low volume game.

You don't, you don't, you don't get to speak to a lot of people.

Like, at least in solar, the average person is only speaking to between eight and 10 homeowners in an entire door knocking session.

That's not a lot of exposure.

That's not a lot of opportunity.

You know, that's just not enough opportunity.

Okay, so benefit belly to belly.

Con.

Low volume call centers mimic door knocking in a digital way.

They mimic door knocking and they take the pros and the cons and they replace them with different pros and cons.

Con no, belly to belly.

Benefit high volume.

Yeah.

Instead of eight to ten doors, now we have three to 400 opportunities per agent.

Times that by however many agents you want.

And mind, by the way, you're only paying them seven to eight bucks an hour because, you know, we only hire from Mexico for the most part.

So you're getting native 110 out of 10 fluency, literally, not 9, 10 out of 10 fluency.

Very solid English speakers.

And they're, they're knocking on three to four.

They're speaking to three to 400.

They're knocking on two to 3,000 doors a day digitally, and they're speaking to three to 400 people.

So they're getting three to 400 door opens a day.

So what you, what you lose out in belly to belly, you make up for in massive, massive volume.

So is it better?

Well, I mean, it's up to you to decide if it's better.

Obviously, in my mind it is.

That's why I'm here.

In my world, I don't believe that there's ever should be a one or the other mindset.

No, agreed.

Like all of this, you know, we have to have advertising, we have to have marketing, we have to have great branding, we have to have great sales, we have to have all of the different components and then on this side of it.

But I feel like it all works together and to create this machine that's Synergistic.

When I had my event in Boston, there's a gentleman that spoke, Doug C. Brown.

And of course, he's done incredible things.

He was a business partner with Chet Holmes that wrote the sales.

Oh, Jesus.

Totally blanked my mind.

One of the best sells books ever written.

I'll find it in my audible real quick because I'm literally in the middle of it.

The ultimate sales machine.

And one of the things.

He was head of marketing sales division for one of Tony Robbins companies for seven years.

This level of person.

And his session was on.

You need to have six quality, consistent lead sources to even consider yourself a business.

That's a tall order, man.

That makes.

Now I'm thinking, man, I gotta get like four more.

Yeah.

I mean, so, you know, obviously depends on how siloed you are and how specific you are.

He's like.

But when you're in.

This is more of a sales type of conversation.

When you're a business, like a service business or any type of retail business or anything, it's like, especially as an individual rep, if you don't have six quality lead sources, that's your number one job.

It's like, forget the extras and the bonuses.

Until that happens, you're not even functioning as a.

A robust, healthy business.

And so it's like change of perspective.

You know, he's talking about anything that's under a $500 million a year business is still considered a small business, period.

And that's the technical definition of it.

And so for all of us in the trades, we're all small businesses.

I don't care.

The monsters out there, it's small business.

And so change of perspective.

And so we get out of our siloed just in home services, we're like, wait a minute.

When we start bringing in the things that the actual big businesses do because it works.

It's things like this.

Yeah.

And you know, the other thing I was just.

Just popped into my mind right now.

The other.

The massive benefit.

And I can't believe I forgot this.

The massive benefit that you get from both door knocking and cold calling through a call center.

They share one massive thing in common.

And let me start with the benefit.

The benefit is everyone wants a call.

Exclusive leads, right.

Who wants to deal with shared leads?

Who wants thumbtack and all that.

Different ones.

Yeah.

Which is another funny thing.

Only in H vac is Angie such a big presence.

Angie's is not a thing in like solar and solar and roofing and all that.

It doesn't.

People don't even know what it is.

Like, like I've heard of it, but I've never used it.

Whereas in H vac people use it like a damn crutch.

Like they absolutely.

Like, I guess we're going to deal with Angie and all the non nonsense that comes with that, but no one wants shared leads.

We all know what a massive annoyance that is.

Did you ever, did you ever think about that?

Like when door knocking, like, guess what, it's just you and it's just you at the door there.

You want to know why you're gonna, you don't want to want it.

Why that's going to be an exclusively.

Because you're catching people away from their damn computer.

You're, you're, you're catching them at their door.

They're not in front of your computer.

Because you and I both know what happens when you even think about a product within five minutes, it's already on your Facebook feed.

You're being served ads within five minutes, right where they're being.

You're being listened to all the damn time.

So if you think that running Facebook ads is going to get you exclusive leads, I got bad news for you, right?

Because what happens when you click on an ad on Facebook?

If you've ever clicked on an ad on Facebook, Try it.

When you get off, when you finish watching the zoom, click on any ad on Facebook.

You don't even need to fill out your information.

Just click it.

It's funny that you mentioned this because I literally this morning went through my feet because it's like 10 to 1 ads now because I've bought some things recently through a couple things and I literally went through and turned off and unsubscribed from like all of these interest points.

Because that's all I see now is 18 different companies showing me ads from the about similar to the one thing that I bought.

One thing.

See, there you go.

You just proved my point.

So you, if you think that you're going to be able to run Facebook ads and get exclusive leads, I got bad news for you, buddy.

Because they're going to be, they're going to be.

Mark Zuckerberg is going to feed them 100 other ads just like yours.

Same thing with your PPC.

And everyone.

And everyone wants multiple quotes.

Everyone needs to go, I need to get three quotes.

Everyone wants three or more quotes.

And so of course they're going to go click on those other ads.

And that's it.

You're exclusively and ain't exclusive anymore.

So the way to avoid that Is you got to catch people away from their computer.

This is why traditional mailers still work and are actually making a huge comeback, by the way.

Yeah, traditional mailers are making a huge comeback.

We need to talk more because I've been working on some different huge comeback.

But so what I've been saying for.

A bit is the companies that are winning right now are the ones that are going to business as if the Internet didn't exist and then are only supplementing with digital.

Yeah, I like that.

I like that.

So door knocking.

It circumvents that problem because you're catching people away from their computer and they're probably not even going to sit back down in front of it and type something.

There's like, well, okay, we booked an appointment with Sam.

He's going to talk to us about our system replacement tomorrow morning.

And.

Cool.

Hopefully gives us a good price.

Right?

And they stay away from their computer.

Well, guess what?

You get to mimic that in high volume.

Now with a call center, we get the same benefit.

We're catching people away from their computer, AKA no competing Facebook ads.

And we get to do this in massive scale.

Right?

Three to 400 contacts per agent, per day.

Love this.

With no competition.

Like, if that doesn't get you excited, that's really cool.

You need to check your heart.

So talk to us about this.

I mean, say I'm, you know, owner of a.

Call it a $2 million a year company.

Or even if I'm just solo, you know, I've got my me and maybe a couple helpers, or maybe we're larger.

It doesn't really matter.

And we're thinking about considering this.

Let's take two.

Two different paths with this.

Take us down the road of what it might look like if I wanted to do my own, and then take us down the road of what it might look like to use a service.

Say, like scalify, like your company and what that might look like.

So here, if you want to pull a pendant.

If you're watching this right now and you want to maybe try to tackle this on your own, pull out a pen and a pad.

I'll tell you right now, you need to write down 4, 4.

1, 2, 3, 4.

Okay?

There are four major things that you need to build out a call center.

Number one, you need agents.

Right?

So you need to recruit some agents.

Number two, you need a professional dialer.

The term you're looking for is what's called a predictive dialer.

The term predictive is just fancy for.

It can call multiple Lines at the same time.

You want something that can call bare minimum of three, but I wouldn't even subtle for that.

I would get one that's like a real high level one in a high level one is going to be like 20 something lines.

Like anything that's 15, 10, 15 and above.

That's what you're looking for.

Most, most professional predictive dialers are going to be in the 20 range.

Okay, so a predictive dialer, you need a script obviously, Right.

Chat GPT will help you.

Does a pretty good job.

Chat GPT can definitely help you with that.

And then number four, you just, I mean you just need leads to call, you need data to call.

Okay, there you, there's the four things you need.

Am I oversimplifying it?

Yeah, of course I'm simplifying it.

Right.

Like if it were that simple, I would have been successful in the first week of doing this.

But instead, somehow I managed to lose over $200,000 in two years because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

And there were no coaches and there were no consultants and there was no.

Scale of my out there with money attached.

We learned those lessons way faster.

Yeah.

So you know, like I always remind people, you know, like anyone should, it's like you're going to pay for this one way or the other.

Do you want to pay for it with your time or do you want to pay for it now with a little extra money and cut that time and cut your way to the front of the line like you're going to pay for it one way or the other.

Right.

So just you decide where, which, which currency you'd rather use.

So question comes to mind as you go through those four.

You know, the first three are pretty simple.

You know, we can get there.

The fourth one though is the big question mark.

Where do those come from?

Are we looking to buy lists or where does that happen?

You said simple.

I start laughing because I'm like, oh, if it only if it was, if only it was.

I didn't say it was easy.

Here's the problem, here's the problem with those four pillars.

Here's the big complication that no one's thinking about right now.

And I'm just telling you from my personal experience and everyone that I know who's come to me for just consultation work on the side, everyone is dealing with the exact same problem.

And once you understand the curtain back for us on this.

Yes.

I'll tell you what the same problem is that everyone is dealing with the Problem.

The, the, the.

The finished product is going to yield your is going to expose your problem and then you're, it's going to be this mysteries to finding where the problem exists.

The finished product is that you're not getting enough appointments and, or, but usually and they're not sitting meaning you're getting a lot of notion shows like a.

Lot of scheduled but not actually are there.

They're ghosting you.

You show up at the house and they're not even home or they cancel right away or later the day before they cancel.

This is a.

If you don't think this is a problem, I got bad news for you.

It's going to be a problem like to the point where it's like you're going to get 80 to 90% no shows.

Like I'm not exaggerating.

80 to 90% no shows.

That turns into a massive loss, right?

Massive financial loss because the money is just going out the door.

Reps you get, they're, they're bailing out because they're showing up now.

They're going to quit on you.

Now you got to start hiring new agents and you got to train them all over again just to find out that they quit too.

Because why would they stay on a job where they can't even book appointments?

It's demoralizing.

It's not fun.

It just sucks.

So they quit and then you got to start the process and on and on and on.

The cycle continues.

So if you think it's simple to any one of these, I got really bad news because here's what's going to happen.

Like I said, you're not booking enough volume.

And even the little volume that you are booking, they're not, they're not showing up for their appointment.

They're canceling and they're no showing on you.

So now you're going to sit down and start scratching your head going okay, geez.

I wonder which one of these four pillars is the problem.

But you don't know how you supposed to know?

How do I know?

Is it, is it my agents?

They're not trained, right?

Is it my script that's maybe a little bit off?

Is my dialer not tuned and not optimized correctly?

Am I using the wrong data source?

Am I using the wrong type of data?

And guess what?

There's nothing more frustrating than not being able to identify what your problem even is.

Because it could be one, it could be two, it could be three, it could be four, or it could be all of the above.

And you don't even know what to focus.

You can't even identify where the problem exists.

And this is where massive frustration will set in, just like it did for me.

Because money just keeps flying out the door because you got to keep paying.

Your agents are not going to work.

No one's going to work for free.

Right.

You got to keep paying them.

So the expenses never seem to stop and yet the income isn't rolling in.

So now then you get frustrated like, ah, you know what?

F, this call center thing, it ain't working.

It's, it's a broken model.

It just doesn't work.

Let's just go back to Angie's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We didn't give enough data and enough temp attempts to perfect it.

Yep.

And so if you can't already figure out, that's where I come in.

Right?

That's where professional comes in and helps being able to, through experience, being able to identify in a matter of minutes where the problem exists.

Because we can come in and we can look at all of your processes and each of these pillars and quickly identify where your problem exists.

Because we've done it a million goddamn times.

Right.

Like, what a big surprise.

When you do something a million times, you can pretty quickly identify the problem.

And until you have, you just can't.

So I'm like, I'm not trying to scare you from doing it.

By all means, give it a shot.

If you, if you have experience in these things and maybe you've done it in the past, then don't pay me, do it yourself.

By all means.

You should be able to figure it out.

But if you haven't, we're not that expensive.

I'm not sitting.

We're not a million dollars, you know, to set up a, to set up a project.

We're in the thousands of dollars range, not millions of dollars.

So like, don't be afraid to talk to us.

Yeah, for sure.

So if I'm setting up a call center and say, you know, going down the road and what should, what metric should I be looking for as a sit rate?

What, what type of conversion should we be looking for?

It solely depends on so many different things.

I wish I could give you a simplified answer, but not only does it depend on the industry, but even if we're talking about H Vac now, it depends on what you're pitching.

It depends on your market, it depends on your pricing.

It depends on every.

Depends on so many things.

So there are, there are certain, there are certain offers where a 60% no show rate is fine.

Believe it or not, it's like.

And it's to be expected.

It's like, well, yeah, it's a high ticket item and there's not a tremendous amount of urgency behind it.

So why would they show up to their appointment just to have some who they think is a high pressure sales guy going to try to push them into something that they don't even need?

Of course they're going to no show.

Why are you surprised by this?

So there are certain offers where a 60% no show rate is actually within the realm of acceptance.

And, and then there are other offers which are low ticket, like a tune up where you should be getting maybe a 20 or 30% no show rate at the max.

So it can vary so dramatically based on so many different variables.

And I'm sure there's plenty of mechanisms that you coach and, or you know, if somebody uses your services that you put in place for, you know, making sure that.

And work as best as we can to double and triple check and to lock them in and make sure that they're going to be there and verify, et cetera.

Well, we oversee everything.

We're never just going to, you know, finish the project, hand you the keys and walk away.

We're never just going to walk away.

No, no, we stay on.

All of our, all of our operations are managed operations.

We won't even.

I mean, I'll do it if you don't want me to manage.

I said I'll do it for you, but I don't recommend it.

The whole point of this is the expertise, right?

It's not the buttons, it's not the, it's not the software, it's the expertise behind it.

So like, I would highly encourage it.

Yeah, yeah, you hire the expertise to compress time.

I love this conversation because we have to change the way we do things in order to get changes.

We have to make changes.

And we all know mid 2023 was the falling off point from every single person I've ever talked to in all of home services.

I don't care what the industry is.

Everything from windows to gutters to, you name it, mid 2023 call volume went down 30 to 40% for all the home services across the board and never came back up.

So for those of us that have been in the industry a long time, we say, well, it just came off of the boom and right sized, now it's normal.

And for everybody that started in 2020-2023, they're like, oh my God, everything died.

Well, it didn't it went back to normal.

We saw the same thing happen in 2010, and, you know, 2008 to 2010, when the tax credits came and went, we saw the same thing years before that.

It's not that it's out of the ordinary.

You just don't have a long enough data set to analyze it.

So what that means, though, is with AI and with all the different things that are happening, the way that people buy has started to shift.

And I agree with you, it's interesting.

It's going back to.

The more that the world gets digital, the methods and mechanisms that are winning are actually going back to much more low tech.

That's why I love this so much, because I saw that.

I referenced back to doors because I've had such a experience with it.

But I know it's the same thing here, what I saw, and I'm curious to hear your opinion on this.

2021-2022, during the pandemic, we were all so siloed away from human connection, and especially now that we've moved to so much more of a digital marketplace and everything is shopping online, et cetera.

What I noticed starting around 2022, 23, right around that same time, is when we're on the doors, people were so much more open to have a conversation.

They would just come outside and stand in the yard, literally just to talk to a person.

So what we found is just the interpersonal communication has elevated so much because people are.

Are communication starved.

And so we see that a lot in the, in the door space.

What would you say that carried through that kind of sentiment, carried through into the call center and just those conversations?

Or do you think that has any effect in this?

You know what, you've analyzed it more than even I have, and it's interesting.

Now you got me thinking about it.

I've never even thought about it in that way, to be honest with you.

Maybe I'm just.

Just more of a simple thinker, I guess.

You know, in my mind, I just do what works, right?

I'm a very simple guy.

I just go to what works, and if something works, I just keep doubling down and doubling down again and again.

But now that you bring it up, yeah, I've noticed it.

I've noticed it over and over again because, like, I think we were even talking off screen here earlier.

We were noticing that, like, all of these analog, you know, traditional print media methods are coming back in a very, very strong way, I think.

I think this has come just to simple human nature.

We go ignore something for A long time because this new shiny object thing comes.

Comes instead.

And then people get sick and tired and burned out of that new shiny object because it gets forced down their throat and they're like, you know, I want to go back to the way things were.

Right?

And so that's just normal.

This is the way everything swings in that direction.

From the way we consume our marketing to our political parties that we vote for.

There's a reason why we generally don't vote for the same political party after every single.

After every single election cycle.

We tend to waffle back and forth, back and forth.

That's humans.

We get sick and tired of the same thing, and then we go the other direction.

I love it.

Okay.

I 100% agree with that.

So, interestingly enough, my head is spinning like crazy right now because I've been putting some things together with some people and I'm just curious.

I'm just floating this idea to the ether.

What would it look like if the combination.

So here's a question, actually, before I toss my idea at you.

When we were talking about call centers.

So this kind of goes back to the question of where do the leads come from?

How do you figure it out, et cetera.

Is, is there ability to specifically target, like.

So, for example, running a Facebook ad, you can super hyper target a geographic area and geolocate.

Can you do the same thing with a call center?

How tight can that get?

How specialized can the net become when looking at call center stuff?

Down to the house.

Really?

Yeah.

Unpack that for us a little bit.

Down to the house.

Literally.

Not zip code.

The house.

Not the block.

Not the block.

Literally your house.

I can just target your house if I wanted to.

Just barrage you with a bunch of free Viagra offers.

Definitely going to start doing that for sure next week.

Free Viagra, sweet.

Send them on, man.

No, we can get.

I'm not exaggerating.

We can literally get down to the house.

That would be silly.

But yeah, we can hyper target all the way down there.

No, through proper data filtering.

And that's a huge part of this, by the way.

So if you're not aware, like we talked about the four pillars, right.

I'm oversimplifying it because I want you to see that in reality, there's not that many components.

But the problem is that everything is more complicated than you think.

And so when I say go by data, like, okay, well, what does that mean?

That.

That sounds like a pretty hefty statement, like, what do you mean by that?

And so to answer your question, like when I say go buy data, that means, okay, well how do I filter this data?

Like, I need to know the right type of data to filter and the right source of data to filter from.

I'm so sorry.

Let me turn that off.

My apologies.

Okay.

I thought I had my.

I thought I had everything silenced but.

Real in this show, man, I thought.

I turned off everything.

Episodes were.

You know what?

What?

I can't turn off Rainstorm with my.

I can't turn off WhatsApp.

Yeah, you can.

You can put on silent mode, but WhatsApp will still sneak through like it just did.

So.

Yeah, no doubt.

Sorry about that.

But filtering, you know, filtering is a huge part of the success.

Like, so if I were just to go and just load up, let's say I picked a zip code or a city or whatever, right?

My target city is.

I pick my.

I'm in Denver.

So I pick Denver.

Okay, well, now I'm going to hit every single home in Denver.

That's not helpful.

I need to be able, I need to be able to target things hyper.

Hyper specifically because you're right, if it, if I, I told you 99% of the time, this doesn't work, right?

And we're just banking on the 1%.

Yeah, I want that 1% to actually be the ones I want.

But that's with filtering and that's with proper understanding of how to filter data in an intelligent way.

If I don't do that, 1% turns into a tenth of 1% or 100 of 100th of 1%, right?

And now it's a failed operation.

So 1% would be successful.

But to get there, you have to understand proper data filtering.

And so that's in and of itself is a science, right?

Understanding how to filter data and where to go to to be able to do that.

Now, we've been in the space long enough that we do multiple different things, right?

So we work with multiple filtration tools.

We're not just using one source, right?

So we're using one.

One source, for example, to source the.

To source the main batch.

And then we're running it through other probably two or three different filtration tools, just depending on the offer, depending on the industry.

We're filtering it again several other times to boil it down even further.

And then the final step is we run it through what's called a skip tracing process.

Now for here I've got a guy, I've got a team of 12 guys working in Pakistan, and that's all they do is they Skip trace.

And if you haven't heard that term before, you're not alone.

My brain goes to.

Isn't that what bounty hunters do?

Yeah, that's where the term comes from.

That's where the term comes from because they got to go figure out where the hell you are hiding.

So that's where the term comes from is trying to figure out where the hell you're hiding.

The bounty hunter.

Yeah, so they call it skip tracing.

And so the term just kind of carried over, but it's the same thing.

It's, it's validating and identifying the accuracy of the data points.

So verifying the names, verifying the address, verifying the phone number, the email, all those, all those different data points.

And there's no real, there's no real.

There's no real.

What's the word for it?

There's no real scrapering tool that can do that in an automated fashion.

I tried it a million different ways.

That's why I literally have a team of 12 guys in Pakistan who work for us full time.

And that's all they do.

So our data is literally being run through four different.

Four different funnels of filtration before we even pick up the phone.

Oh, nice.

So that's, you know, so, so can we get down?

Can we.

Hell yeah, we can.

Target.

Very, very cool.

Okay, so where I was headed with that, I'm.

I'm curious if you have ever done any type of joint, joint campaigns with say for example, stacking call center for a specific area on top of maybe direct mail, on top of social media, on top of maybe a door campaign.

Absolutely.

So all of a sudden there, that's all that, that entire area, see, is talking about how to own a market.

Absolutely.

And we talk about this stuff.

So I always advise my clients on this sort of a thing that a lot of this can be done cheap or free in house, where like for example, database reactivation.

Right.

If you're in the H vac space, I promise you, you've got a pretty decent sized pipeline of people that either are past customers or just never pull the trigger with you in the first place.

You're sitting on a gold mine.

Those people should absolutely be reactivated.

Now we, as you mentioned, with partnerships.

So we do a couple other things as well.

We're not all low tech.

We're not all.

And we're not all.

Can you hear me?

All low tech.

We're not all analog.

The analog works great because of the volume things that we already talked about.

Right.

Because of that.

But we absolutely Partner with other, what do I call other channel partners, other practices in order to maximize the output of these efforts in a very, very dramatic way.

Let me give you an example.

So we partnered with one of the largest AI developers that originally came from the solar space.

And the guy that I partner with is one of the most well known AI consultants in the, not just solar, but in really all of software development.

He actually works with the largest, the largest AI partner for Go High Level.

And if you haven't heard, Go High Level, it's one of the most common, it's one of the most well known CRMs out there that Liberty to share his name.

Yeah, his name is Michael Copeland.

Okay, cool.

Actually that's funny.

I'm in a mastermind that there's a lot of thought leaders for AI and he's, I think I want to say he's in my mastermind in one of the other branches.

I freaking promise he is.

Yeah, he's one of the most well known guys.

I've worked with Michael for the better part of six or seven years now.

And so he and I, you know, have watched each other kind of grow through this, you know, industry and have some fascinating stories to tell.

But so Michael and I have partnered for several years now and so we piggyback together on our strengths.

On our strengths.

And so let me give you a real life example of what we do together.

So as you already mentioned, his specialty is in automations and AI and voice AI agents as well.

Not just, not just your standard voice AI because like even high, you know, probably a lot of you are familiar with Go High Level.

Go High Level has its own built in AI, sms, its own email, its own even voice.

But it's very limited in its functionality.

It's a very rudimentary tool and so that's where you need outside third party vendors that can really elevate it to a much more sophisticated level.

That's where people like Michael enter the equation.

So we've partnered together.

So for example, when we get a new call center client, he already knows all of our SOPs.

He already knows exactly our onboarding process, he knows exactly what all my clients want and they need.

So all I do is tell him, hey, new client John Smith, let's go.

He's like cool, send me his email.

His phone will, he'll be live in a couple, couple days and everything is all done for you.

Now that's not the interesting part.

The interesting part is what it does.

So like again I'm not all analog.

So like with AI.

There's some great use cases for AI and there are some areas where unfortunately it can't help you at all.

And I'll just tell you right now.

So there are four in most, in most home services industries there's really four kind of points of contact.

Four different lines of communication I guess we can call it.

And I'll start from the top.

The first one is the, is the cold outreach, right?

It's the booking of the initial appointment.

That's number one.

Number two would be, if it depends on your industry would be like a discovery call.

You may or may not do that.

Like a pre close type of a call.

Number three would be the close itself.

And then number four would be the reactivation of people that ghosted you canceled, no showed all that I want to think about it it all those people.

So those are the only, the really four main lines of communication that exist.

This one being an optional.

But those are the four main lines of communication that exist in most home services Now.

AI can really only help you with two.

It can't help you with cold outreach.

It's not legal.

The FCC is a hundred percent bandit and they're finding people like crazy for it and for good and thank God for good reason because think about it guys, if the FCC allowed us to use AI for cold outreach, to use AI voice agents to cold call people, our phones would be buzzing off the hook non freaking stop.

We would have Pakistani teenagers blowing up our phones trying to sell a scammy shit.

Non cell phone towers would be on.

Fire and I probably still get a dozen AI cold outreaches a day.

Yeah, well because it's coming from overseas.

Even being off limits, you know.

Yeah, it's coming from overseas and they will be shut down.

They're all getting shut down and they're, they're heavily, they're being heavily policed.

Okay, so you can.

And good, thank God because if we allowed it, it would completely destroy cold calling.

It would be dead, the industry would be dead.

The cell companies would just, they would take every measure amount, every measure imaginable to block that sort of thing from happening to the point where no one would be able to get through to you.

Like if, if that person's contact wasn't in your list of contacts, it would just block the call because they would have to, they'd have to fight back so hard to keep, to protect their clients that it would just make all sorts of cold outreach completely impossible.

So thank God they've done that because that keep, that makes it still a viable option for the rest of us to be able to effectively use it.

So step one, you can't use AI for cold outreach.

It's just not an option.

And like I said, good, good thing.

Discovery call, if that applies to you.

Discovery call, yeah, you could use AI for that, right?

Because you need proof, you need proof of opt in.

You can use an AI voice agent if you have proof of opt in.

Proof of opt in could be a, could be presented in a multitude of ways.

They could fill out a form, right.

Check the little box at the bottom.

They could verbally agree to an appointment.

That's proof of opt in.

Any one of those methodologies is proof of opt in.

Once you have proof of opt in, that's considered your lead.

Now you can use AI.

That's fine, right?

Because it's not being used in massive in mass.

Somebody raised their hand and said yes, you can call me like that.

Yeah.

Because now your AI is not being used en masse at that point.

It's just targeted.

Right.

To those select few people that have opted in.

So you can use it for that.

You can't use it for closing deals.

I think we all know that would probably be a mistake trying to use AI to close deals for.

So you do need a human for that.

Yeah.

You know I love this topic.

Well, just quick second here.

There's two companies now that have reached out to me about the AI they've developed as closers to automate that process.

And so I'm curious because I'm going to, I'm scheduling to sit with them.

Okay.

But I believe just like you, I was like, come on, are you serious?

It's got to depend on your thing, right?

It's got to depend on what the thing is that you're selling.

If you're selling a, an inexpensive widget that requires a pretty simple signup process, then sure, I guess, why the hell not, right?

But if you're trying to size someone H Vac system and yeah.

Measure their ducting and airflow.

Come on, like there's just.

No, you can't, it's not a, it's not a conversational thing.

There has to be measurements being done and visual inspections and things like that.

So in reality, for high ticket closers, for high ticket problem products, very unlikely that AI will be able to help you in terms of the closing.

So I think we all agree that this is a human thing.

But this last one, this last one is a big deal.

The last one is the cancels no shows and ghosts.

And I want to think about it, right?

The people that just never pulled the trigger.

This last one is a massive opportunity because there's, as you can imagine, there's a huge volume of people that get dumped into this last bucket.

Most people don't buy something.

What I found is literally less than a hundredth of percent of either salespeople or companies ever do follow up into that.

That database.

Mind blowing.

And I'm not surprised because I'm just as guilty of it as most people were until I developed systems for it.

So I get it.

I'm not badmouthing you.

I get it.

It's just human nature.

I get it.

But guys, this last bucket is a massive opportunity because it's right.

Most people aren't buying your thing, whatever your thing is.

Most people are saying no or just not showing up or canceling or ghosting or saying I want to think about, right?

So there's a huge bucket of opportunity that's being left on the table there.

Now, could you use humans to call them from your call center?

My call center?

Yes, you could.

But guess what?

Even I'm going to tell you, not the best use of your money.

Even I would discourage you from doing that.

I would say don't put humans on this task because number one, it is a little bit of a lower percentage vintage game.

But more importantly, like, have your humans focus on step one, which is the cold outreach.

Have them focusing on the things that humans are good at, which is building that initial point of contact and getting people through the front door.

Leave your humans to do that.

This last one is the perfect opportunity for AI.

AI can 1000% tackle this?

Because all we're trying to do is get them back on the calendar.

We're trying to take them from here back to here into a conversation, back into the conversation.

And that AI can a thousand percent do that technology exists right now beautifully, 100% out there.

And we can help with that, obviously, if you need this.

But this is a huge opportunity for people.

So that's one of the things that we partnered on is like, so now when we get a new call center, build that client, he just already knows exactly how this is going to work.

All he just asked me, hey, what do they do?

Roofs, H Vac, solar.

What do they do?

Oh, H Vac done.

Clicks a button, done.

It's already all the scripts, all the language, everything at the tonality, the, the gender of the AI chatbot, of the voice agent, all of that is predetermined.

We already know what works because we have millions of data Points.

Millions.

Not, not thousands, millions.

So, so much when we combine.

Longest answer to your question.

But when we combine these forces together, man, that's where just massive opportunity exists.

And guys, this isn't that hard like because we've already done it.

And the beauty of it is it's not even that expensive because we have, we have volume under our belts.

Right.

We're able to do this stuff for large numbers of people.

So I can promise you it's probably cheaper to just have us do it for you than you try to figure it out on your own.

Yeah, no doubt.

Probably just cheaper.

Here's an interesting question that I've been thinking of this entire time because when we're talking about a call center, we're talking about cold outreach.

That is a marketed lead.

It's another version or form of a marketed lead.

So that's where the question arises.

Because, you know, forever in the history of ever companies like H Vac and in the service companies, we want to warm them up as much as possible because they're easier to sell to.

And personally I think that's a crutch because so many people that don't have good sales skills and, or don't have the time ability or want to, to work on their sales skills and sometimes the companies just don't have the, the Runway to build great salespeople.

Takes a while.

It's not an overnight thing.

And so when we're all of a sudden talking about a huge influx of cold traffic, is there a detriment to a company if they're not skilled in actually closing that volume?

Yes.

Yep.

So let's talk about this topic because I think it's really important for people to understand.

Go ahead.

Yeah, look, look, I talked to a, I'm talking to a roofing company right now where we're trying, where they came to us, they wanted to negotiate an equity play because they see us as a growth partner.

And this term exists in the private growth.

Consultancy is a term in the private equity space.

It's just a fancy term for marketing agency really.

It's really what it really is.

Right.

Lead generation marketing.

Anything that helps you grow and generate more sales and build, build your, your ebitda.

Right.

And so we function as a growth, as a growth consultant because what better way is there to grow your lead generation efforts than through a call center because of the massive volume that it can produce?

And they knew that.

Right.

And so this roofing company knew that and they came to us and they said, hey, I want to give you a piece of our company.

Would you be willing to come in and do this?

Build us a call center at a lower price?

Right.

We'll little trade off.

Right.

I'll give you a piece of the pie.

You give us a better deal.

Sure.

And then you get upside and then I get a potential and we want to exit in three to four years and you get to participate in that exit.

And I was like yes, but of course, yes.

Tell me about your systems.

I need to know that if I suddenly build this for you and create this massive influx of new leads and opportunities that you can close them.

Because I'm not going to go spend all this money and potentially face a loss if you're just going to squander this opportunity.

Now thankfully they do have good systems in place and I was able to, you know, help them with a little bit of improvements on that sort of thing because I've done that so many times.

But like I was able to help them improve their processes a little bit more.

But to your point, unfortunately yes, there are a lot of companies that are still a little bit young, a little bit immature and don't really have mature systems in place in order to handle that massive influx.

And that is an area where talk, talk to Sam.

That, that is an area where you should talk to Sam and you should really improve your systems first.

And it's not a big deal, it's not some over.

It's not an overly complicated process.

It can be done in a weekend, right?

I'm assuming.

Yeah.

Coming in one weekend and clean house for them.

Right.

And it's not going to cost you a hundred thousand plus dollars.

It's not, it's affordable, it's quick, it's not going to take much time out of your day at all.

One weekend you're probably done and now you've got a good system in place and now you can, can theoretically come in and either build this call center or hey, come, you know, if you think your company is, could potentially be worth tens of millions of dollars, come talk to me and we'll see if you know, we'll see if there's a potential opportunity there for maybe an equity partnership type situation.

Fix your systems.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

You know, that's what I've seen so many times is, you know, what so many companies don't understand is the volume that can be generated from call center, from doors or both that we've seen in industries outside of our typical need based industries like H vac, plumbing, electric.

This is how you know the solar Company that we were both with for just a little bit.

You know, in eight years their number they actually in sales they hit like $1.2 billion in sales.

With bike cold outreach like this, most of it was done on the doors and through call centers.

You know, there's window companies.

There was a gentleman that I've actually had on the show one time, he took a window company from 0 to 100 million in less than five years with a door team, you know, scaled the door team.

And so that's the type of volume that you know, that we can see.

The biggest problem though is when you start talking about that kind of volume on top of a very production driven industry like H Vac, then we can out what happens is the leads into sales.

Sales start to outpace the production really, really, really quickly, which is cool.

It's a great problem to have because then you have the funds to be able to turn around.

And the owner and the manager's number one job is how fast can we hire and train the production to be able to keep up with these sales monsters.

But this is my word of caution to everybody out there.

Make that the biggest problem.

Don't let the gap be people not being able to sell the volume.

Because then you think, well, these are bad leads.

This doesn't work all these things when the fact is you just aren't good at closing it.

And the reason I bring this up is because in my origin story, when I got to the company that I, that I ended up helping the owner grow from, we were just, we were about two and a half million here in the Austin area at about two and a half, three years old.

So not a very big company and not a very old company.

80% of our leads were marketed leads and in three years time we grew it to over 8 million.

And this is of course pre, pre Covid numbers.

This is, you know, 20, 2016 through 2019.

And the reason I'm bringing this up is because there, you know, our numbers were, you know, I wrote this is when I wrote this originally wrote the sales system around marketed leads because we were closing over as a team of six.

We were closing over.

It was right around 45% as the average for the team.

A close rate with a $15,000 average ticket on an 80% marketed lead volume.

And that was.

And those were just the real numbers.

Now the reason I mention that is for everybody listening, I don't care if you use me or don't use me, you know, you just close it.

Now the point is make sure but you should.

Yes.

I can guarantee you that we have the best closing rate in all of the home services, especially H Vac for marketed leads.

It's proven time and time again.

But use me or not, the point is, make sure that you've got a solid sales system.

Most companies, that's the very last piece that they put in place and that's such it's upside down.

Because fix your sales system first.

I don't care what size your company is, because when you can sell more at higher tickets, now you have the funds to be able to invest in the rest of your company.

This is how companies grow faster.

If you're wondering, man, I've been doing this 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years, and it seems like these other companies are outpacing us.

This is why.

Because they fix their sales first and then they have the money to invest in the other elements of their company.

So now cells and this go hand in hand, which is why I'm bringing it up.

Because you can do it simultaneously.

It doesn't have to, to be one or the other again simultaneously.

But those fix those two things.

First, get solid lead volume, solid appointment volume through call center like this, and work on your sales team.

That will cover so many other sins in the company because now you can more effectively, more efficiently and have the money to dive in, to hire the experts to fix those other places very, very quickly.

And then you generate this machine.

Now that's going to work for you, not because you're in it.

So that's my soapbox moment of I'm with you fixing businesses here.

I'm with you.

I love sales, right?

I love sales.

But what I've learned in my experience in kind of, you know, moving up sort of the kind of progression, maturity, ladder of being a business owner is that you really, you find yourself, yourself getting stuck in this sales learning journey.

Let me just tell you this.

I had a guy, I was doing a webinar training session a couple weeks ago and it was in solar, and one of the guys asked me a question.

He's like, hey, what books do you recommend for sales?

And I was like, oh, what books have you read?

And he like, read.

He reeled off like five or six books.

I'm like, stop reading books.

You've read too many books.

He's like, what are you talking about?

I'm like, you're done.

Like, you're done.

Stop.

You don't need to be a fucking PhD in sales.

Like, you're fine.

Like it's, it's time to, like, just start trusting yourself now.

Like, so I'm not trying to contradict what you're saying.

That's.

That's not what I'm saying.

100 agree what I'm saying.

This is like some people, what you.

What you'll find as you work through, as you mature through your journey as a business owner.

Most people do start in sales.

It's a very common place to start as a business owner.

As you start in the sales side of things, as you should.

Hallelujah.

You should start there.

Because that's the most practical, actionable skill that you can have without question is the ability to sell.

But as I've already said, you don't need to be a goddamn PhD.

So at some point.

Stop.

Okay?

Stop.

Don't waste.

You're going to waste your entire business career just reading books about how to be sales.

Cool.

You'll be the best sales guy living in your mom's basement forever.

Like, there comes a point where you do have to stop reading.

Trust that you know enough.

There are plenty of millionaire salespeople that probably didn't even read a single book on sales.

So don't think that there's some hidden secret out there that, oh, I only spent that $15,000 on blah, blah, blah's course, then I would unlock the secrets to millionaire sales.

No, he's just trying to sell you some bro 100.

He's gonna sell you some marketing from sales.

Guys like that.

Yeah.

Would be concerned.

So here's my.

Here's my advice to the business owners who are watching this.

Not necessarily the sales guys, but the business owners who are watching this.

And you probably already know this, and I hope that you do.

But, like, you probably started your journey as a sales guy.

Good.

That's the natural place you should have started.

At some point you realized, well, I can't be this.

I can't be the sales guy forever.

I'm going to have to get out of this role at some point.

Otherwise I'm going to be stuck at a certain level of income for the rest of my life.

I have to extract myself from the sales side of things.

Which means even if I were to get a stupid PhD in this, in sales, it wouldn't do me any good because I got to get out of it.

It.

I have to outsource this to other sales guys, and I can't expect them to become PhDs because then they'll never do anything right.

It's like, at some point, I have to trust that someone's skill level is good.

Enough.

80 per the 80% rule.

Right.

It's if they're 80.

If they're doing 80% as good as I am, cool.

Run with it.

Great.

Good enough.

Good enough.

Right.

So don't.

So stop with the reading books, okay?

Read a few.

Fine.

Get your confidence up to where it needs to be.

And then it's time.

Time to graduate, and then it's time to do marketing and lead generation and then branding.

Right.

Like, so the businesses go in this particular order for a particular reason.

Because you can't stay here in sales forever for the rest of your life.

Your income will be limited.

It'll be good.

You'll be comfortable.

You'll do fine.

You'll make good money.

But at some point, if you really want to blow your company up, you can't be the held sales guy.

Yeah, no doubt.

You think Bill Gates is running around selling Microsoft Word, you know, like, no.

Bezos is like, hey, buy this book.

Like, no.

Like, he's.

He's well above and beyond all that stuff.

He trusts that his other guys are good enough.

And so it's.

But, but, but.

But they have to be good enough.

They have.

And good enough is a different definition everywhere.

But they have to be sufficient.

They got to be 80%, so they don't have to be PhDs, but they do have to be good enough.

And so for that, you know, someone like you, who specializes in what you're doing, which is cleaning up people's systems, is parabount.

It's absolutely necessary.

Otherwise, you can't use me, because then I can't unleash the full power of what we do.

Yeah.

I can set you up with three agents, six agents, something small, and you'll do fine, and you'll make plenty of money, and that's cool.

But I want to get you to the point where you got 50 agents, 100 agents.

Now we're talking, you know, $100 million valuation company.

That's where I want you to be.

That's where maybe you'll talk to me then and be like, hey, Peter, let's talk about an equity position and private equity.

You know, exit opportunity.

Like, that's where I want, Mike.

That's where I want to see my clients headed.

That's real, real wealth.

Right?

That's not sitting around reading books all day.

Yeah.

You know, and this is the.

There's so many things going on in our.

I just noticed the time.

We got to wrap this up soon.

But, man, you know, there's so much going on in the industry that the private equity entering and the exit conversation for owners.

And I 100% agree.

I mean, if you have never read the book Built to Sell, I highly recommend it.

God, such a good book.

Such a good book.

Start with why all of those books?

So now we're talking about moving past sales into business ownership and vision and management and working harder on yourself than you do on your business.

Because as you grow, literally, it's the slogan of closing out, be someone worth buying from.

As we work to become that, our personal growth moves up, the business rises with us.

And so we can never.

It's the law of the lid.

John Maxwell teaches it can never.

Your income and your business will never surpass where you are as your own personal level, as the owner, because you are the lid of the organization.

And so as we do this, it all grows.

And I love that we're down this journey because all of it is synergistic.

It all works together and it all has a place, man.

It's just such a. I lost where my train of thought was headed with that just because I got off on the book thing for a second.

Because, yeah, it's like you can learn all the things and if you never implement, it's called knowledge on ice.

You've got.

It's like, I would rather see somebody, you know, people brag about, oh, I remember where I was going, but people brag about reading 50 books in a year.

I would rather you see you read one book and implement it than read 50 and not implement anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But how much of it did you use?

That's more important.

And so, gosh, yeah, takes the action, man.

It's so good.

So I love this, man.

So tell us, you know the.

Tell us how to get a hold of you.

Because I know that some people listening are very, very curious now after this conversation, hey, how do I get involved?

Or you know.

And so the question that I have now that wasn't answered in it maybe been inferred is if say whatever size organization say I came to you and you know what?

I don't even want to have my own necessarily.

Call center, what does that service look like with using Scalify, with using you for that?

If they don't want to call center.

Do we get like a set of certain volume?

Hey, we need this much.

Or how do you get to work with us to get the right messaging?

What's all that?

Oh, well, I mean, yes to everything you just said.

Yeah, we're going to do everything.

I mean, there's no stone Unturned.

So if you do want to talk to us about building up a call center, I mean, just go to Scalify Co.com.

that's it.

Scalify Co CEO ScalifyCo.com everything is there, everything that you need.

You can reach me directly through there.

You can book a demo, you can see, you know, case studies, you can check out testimonial videos from all different clients and all different industries.

H vac roofing, solar real estate investors, real estate agents, you name it all.

And so just go to scalifyco.com.

but, you know, if this is something you're interested in doing, just book a call with me.

I'm not going to try to hard sell you on any.

I'm not that type of a guy anyway.

Like, I don't do any hard selling.

I can vouch for that.

Everybody Peter long enough, he's like, if you want to, you will.

If not, I'll provide what help I can.

And you know, the funny thing is, you know, just quick back to go back on the whole like understanding learning sales.

The, the more books I read about sales, the less I started doing any of them.

Yeah, I've kind of found, I kind of found that like all these sales guys are just trying to sell me some shit.

They're all trying to make me think that like, well, if you don't buy my, like I said, if you don't buy my 50,000 course you're going to be a loser.

I don't want to mention any, you know, muscly guys who wear sleeveless shirts on stage and wear skinny pants with ballet shoes.

I don't want to mention their names or anything for fear of getting banned.

But, you know, I think we all know who I'm talking about here.

But like, you know, these are guys who disparage you into thinking if you don't buy my course, you're never going to get date.

You know, like that's the furthest thing.

Like I said, there's a plenty of guys who have made incredibly successful sales careers having never read a book.

But if you're trying to run a successful business, you need a system, right?

And a system probably isn't going to be super intuitive.

You probably do need someone who can help you, having already done it.

And again, I'm sure you have different, you know, platforms and different levels.

It's not just a one size fits all.

It's like, yeah, you already know most of what you're doing and you just want a quick little, you know, house Cleaning.

Cool.

Let's talk, you know?

Yeah.

And so.

Yeah, man.

So like same thing here.

It's so funny.

It's like, you know, the more I learn about sales, the more I realize I should stop learning about sales because it's really kind of cow.

It's a lot of it is nonsense.

You know, that's it.

So much of it is people buy from who they like.

How about I've learned this likable guy, don't be an asshole hole.

And people like, you're gonna love where.

I'm taking close it now.

Because I am in that place of.

I've read enough sales books and I've really realized the same thing.

And it's not about the script anymore.

It's about being able to just understand people.

The more that I learned about sales, the more I stopped selling and started learning about psychology and about like just how people think and how people process information.

And sales is solving a problem and providing a higher level of value than the prices.

Hundred percent.

That's all that.

There's of course some very specific language and technique and don't be a.

And don't be a dick.

Yeah, that always helps.

Right?

Just be likable because people buy from who they like.

Solve a problem and show them how you can do it and make the value exceed the price.

When those three things happen.

Not everyone says yes to anything.

So now you're not going to 100% close rate.

But there's your best odds of getting a deal done.

Oh my gosh.

All the problem.

Be a nice guy and make the value exceed the price.

That's exactly it.

You know the.

There's every sales book you're ever going to need to read.

That's it.

Three points past, current and future.

Yeah.

That's everything.

Yeah.

There's nothing else that you can tell someone if there's like, oh, say this when they say that.

No, that's don't do that.

In fact, don't do that.

That creates conflict.

Just.

Yeah, yeah, just don't do that.

Right.

Just agree with them.

I mean, yes, you should de escalate and that's psychology.

That's basic psychologies.

But I can see why you'd say that.

And I would totally feel that same way too.

I get it.

I understand.

Have you thought about it this way though?

That's it.

Like that's how you circumvent an objection or a concern or anything like that.

That's it.

There you go.

Every sales book ever condensed down into basic points.

I love this.

Okay.

To Answer your.

The biggest factor is how you believe about yourself.

You know, it's identity.

So so much of what we're doing is that there was a.

In a Facebook group yesterday.

Last night, man, I mentally had this moment of neither one is right.

Because there was a post in a Facebook group, and the question was, which is better?

To educate your client or sell?

Which is better, Education or selling?

Selling to the client.

Educating or selling?

And my answer was, well, neither one.

They're both needed a way.

And don't get away from sales just because it's called sales.

Yes, we have to educate some.

But more importantly, people buy when they feel seen, heard, and they feel safe.

When they feel seen, they feel heard and safe.

That's when people feel comfortable enough to make a buying decision.

How's that different?

Way to get there is by listening better and asking better questions.

How's that different than getting a date?

It's not.

Right.

It's not the same goddamn thing.

Right.

Because it's basic human psychology.

Yeah.

When does a girl say yes?

When those three conditions are met.

Yeah.

And it's the same thing.

And so for.

So, I mean, we've gotten so far away from that that it's like, okay, here's your flow and here's your script, and we're going to force everybody into this box.

And.

Well, no wonder.

I mean, pull back the curtain here a little bit.

You know, I followed so many other sales trainers in the industry, and the words, what the companies tell me is, oh, my gosh, it was wild.

They came out here and they can't even prove their own system.

And the ones that did close canceled because they were crying by the time they left the house because they forced them into it.

And I'm like, oh, my God.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you serious?

Yeah, that's.

Yeah.

I mean, unfortunately, that's gonna go on for quite some time, and that's a good thing, because now that opens up opportunities for people like you to come in and.

Yeah.

Anyway, Les, I love this so much.

Let's land this plane.

We're an hour and a half in.

Thank you for giving so much time to us.

This has been a great conversation, and you've definitely enlightened me a lot on Call Center.

I had an idea about it, but I honestly had never really.

I'd never dove in as much as I should have into Call center and the ideology and the process up until now.

But now that we've spoken, we definitely need to chat more because I feel like there's a Lot of opportunities for some things that can be done to really.

I feel like everything is so insanely effective.

What I do is effective, what you do is effective, door knocking is effective, direct mail is effective, etc.

Where the real power starts to happen.

And for everybody that is listening at this point, when you start to understand that there is a place and a component for everything to need to do it all and it all work together.

Now, you can't start it all at once.

As you're growing your business, you put things in place, in priority and in order, but with the idea to get to the place of when all of these things start to stack together and start to work synergistically.

It's not a one plus one type of we don't get two with this idea.

You put one plus one in this.

When you start combining these things, you're now at 11.

Now you add 1 plus 1 plus 1.

Now we're at more like 33 instead of 3.

Yeah.

Exponential growth.

There's so much value in reaching your clients in different mediums and modalities, in ways that are so stacked together, but in very elegant, you know, elegant ways that they need to be to be reached.

Because the main thing is we have to remember everyone in their life is busy and it takes a lot of touches to get their attention.

Everyone is on the spectrum of awareness.

Everyone starts out at zero awareness.

And you've got your early adopters that say yes after two or three touches, four touches, they'll buy things when they first come on the market, etc.

And then most people live in the range in the middle.

And we never know where their awareness meter is before they're wired to say yes to something.

And at the other end of the spectrum, you've got a whole group of people that they literally have to read five books and watch too many series and 37 testimonies to even consider it.

So everyone lives in this range of spectrum and the more opportunity we can get to get in front of them and get the touches in, that's what starts to move the needle in our business, by being in front of more people in more places to move that awareness needle faster.

So that's the whole goal here.

So this is a very powerful way to do that.

And I'm glad you were on the show today.

Thank you.

One last word of wisdom, sage piece of advice, or if you want to tell a knock knock joke, I don't care.

Any parting words for everybody before we land?

Oh, my God, don't be a dick.

I mean, how about that?

Just start there.

That kind of sums up our conversation.

That's really everything that you need to know.

Just don't be a dick.

You'll be fine.

Oh, that's great.

I love it, man.

Well, thanks for being on.

So, everybody, again, it's Scalify.

Scalify is S C A l I f y.co CEO.com?

Nope.

Scalify scalifyco.com scalifyco.com so we'll spell it one more time.

S C A L I f y c o.com Scalifyco.com it will be in the show notes as well, everybody.

So make sure that you don't drive off the road.

Thank you for joining us in drivetime University.

And as in, in the theme of don't be a dick.

What the opposite side of that same coin is.

You know how we end this?

Everybody make sure to go become and be someone worth buying from.

You've been listening to the Close it now podcast.

Our passion is to dive headfirst into the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H VAC and home improvement and at the same time, covering fitness, nutrition, relationships, and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all.

We hope you've enjoyed the show.

If you did, make sure to, like, rate and review.

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See you next time.