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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Lewton and the one and only Kim Reuter with you here on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's Live Stream.

Kim, how we doing today?

Doing fabulous.

How about you?

We're doing great.

We've dodged all the storms.

A bunch of storms came through yesterday and today got a ton of rain.

But everybody's safe and sound.

And I still have all my trees as I'm looking out here which those tall pines, Kim, they can make you a little bit nervous sometimes, huh?

They can.

They can.

So I've got your weather now up here in Virginia and I am watching the rain and the trees.

So far we're doing all right.

That's good.

That is good.

Well, folks, speaking of good stuff, we got a wonderful show here, the Buzz where you all know every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a var of news and developments across global supply chain and global business.

And it is a busy, busy, disruptive time.

Right?

Lots of great topics here today.

It's a manufacturing Monday.

Kim, we love talking about manufacturing, don't we?

We do.

And it's very timely.

I would say it is very timely.

We're going to be talking about the US Manufacturing workforce needs.

We're going to talk about what March saw in terms of manufacturing activity.

No telling what April's going to see, but we'll save that for later.

We're going to be discussing contract manufacturing in particular, including what organizations should looking for when they are selecting the right contract manufacturer.

All that plus a whole bunch more.

And Kim, at 12:15, thereabouts, we're going to have a very special guest joining us as Keith Smith, president CEO of Vono Products, will be stepping in and sharing some good stuff with us.

So Kim, if we're going to start our disruptive Monday, we got to get in a little bit of buzz, huh?

We do.

And there's a lot of it.

There is a lot of it.

Hey, and we love to hear perspective and comments from out there from Trisha.

Happy Buzz day.

Appreciate what Amanda and Trisha does behind the scenes.

And David's back with us.

Really enjoyed David's perspective last week on the Buzz.

Good morning from Toronto.

Good morning to you as well, my friend.

Hope you're doing well.

All right.

Two things before we get started, folks.

Just like David and Trisha, it gives your take in the comments, whether you're tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube X Facebook, Twitch, no matter.

Let us know what you think.

And if you enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with a friend and your network.

They'll be glad you did.

Okay, Kim, we've got several things to touch on before we welcome in our outstanding guests, and I'm going to start with some resources.

I'm going to start with some resources, folks.

We all know that shipping costs are a significant part of doing business, especially for e commerce companies.

Kim can tell you all about that.

From carrier fees to packaging supplies, these expenses add up fast.

However, the good news?

With the right strategies, you can drastically reduce these costs while still maintaining an excellent customer experience.

That's the name of the game.

So to that end, our friends at easypost have put together a new ebook to help companies find practical ways to save money on things such as carriers, warehouses, packaging, labor, and a whole bunch more.

You can download your free copy of this ebook today.

Ebooks everywhere Kim.

Ebooks everywhere.

Okay, I need an ebook library, but hey, easy post is on the move.

So folks, check out that resource.

How about with that said.

So this is our latest edition of our almost weekly newsletter dropped over the weekend and as always, Kim, we took a Baskin Robbins approach and offered a variety of great information.

First, in light of all the tariff and trade policy disruption, I love this quote that we shared up near the top of the newsletter.

It came from a recent webinar guest Ken we were talking about this in the green room pre show Omar Nasha Shebi, who has spent over 25 years our nation's capital, working on trade policy and many other things.

Well, he shared this quote with us on Thursday.

That was a hit.

There's an old line that says if you are worried about all the problems we have in Washington, just wait till you see our solutions.

Quot oh, that hit us.

Hit a lot of folks right in the bones.

In the bones, yes.

But on a lighter note, more important note, perhaps one of the key topics, and with that said, was that of the manufacturing workforce.

So get this Kim.

According to Carolyn Lee over at the Manufacturing Institute, a recent study determined that the US manufacturing sector will need some 3.8 million workers by 2033 and some projections suggests that 1.9 million of those jobs may stay empty.

So we got a lot of work to do to grow the talent pipeline coming into the manufacturing world as well as developing new skills for our current talented people.

So in this recent Supply Chain now podcast which you'll find kind of summarized in this edition.

With that said, I sat down with Carolyn Lee and she shared a couple of terrific programs.

Kim get these Heroes Make America program that helps transitioning service members, veterans and military spouses, which oftentimes get left out in the cold, but it helps all of those wonderful folks step into modern manufacturing careers.

Heroes Make America.

Also fame F A M E, which is an acronym, it was started by Toyota probably 20, 30 years ago.

That helps equip people with the technical skills needed for roles like advanced maintenance technicians and all sorts of other technical roles.

So, folks, you got to check out these two programs in this edition of with that said, we gave an update on Starbucks and their transformation efforts, which has been ongoing.

We talked about a new leveraging logistics for Ukraine conversation and offered up a profile of our friend Marty Parker.

All that, plus all our upcoming live events that we'd love for you to be a part of.

Kim, I know you had a busy weekend, but did you have a chance to take a look at with that said and what stood out to you?

So I did.

It was the manufacturing piece that really stood out to me because we're talking a lot about manufacturing in the United States, right.

We had Liberation Day last week.

We our whole goal is to move more manufacturing back into the United States.

And it's interesting because we're talking about having a labor force ready to work.

Do we have a skilled labor force ready to take on all this manufacturing work that we're expected to see in the United States in the next, like, almost immediately?

Right, Right.

And I think that's a big question.

And when we look at what happened four or five years ago, right, when we got the initial tariffs, that happened and companies started to try to do that quick outsource, right?

We're like, oh, just go manufacture somewhere else.

Okay.

And so they moved to Vietnam or India or, you know, a variety of other places are like, yeah, we'll just outsource our ship, our manufacturing, super easy.

It was not.

There was a lot of failure and a lot of manufacturing went right back to China.

And we just figured out how to eat that extra tariff money.

But we're upping the game now, so tariffs are coming more and more.

So we are going to have to move manufacturing back into the U.S.

but do we have that skilled force ready?

You pose several great questions there that are timely, are important, are clearly we're plugged in the industry because that's probably in light of everything going on, I think one of the most things that we Got to keep front and center is, are we ready as a country between workforce and infrastructure?

You know, we got plenty of work to do, strengthen the infrastructure, power and electricity and whatnot.

So we're gonna see, you know, we're.

We're gonna create a whole new podcast series focused on what we're seeing, folks.

But anyway, folks, check out with that said and give us your take on anything you see in there.

And one thing I want to call out to, folks, do yourself a favor.

Omar Nashashibi gave a master class on things to look out for.

He brought tons of resources.

Mark Gillum with ENABLE joined us, and I'll tell you, it was must see.

Not many webinars are must see webinars, but in light of everything going on now and where we're headed, you got to check that out.

So maybe Amanda and Trisha can drop the link to last week's very live episode.

We got a lot of feedback around that one.

Okay, I want to hit one more thing, Kim, before we bring in an outstanding guest, and that is, I love your blog articles.

I read every single one of them, and that should be required reading.

And last week, you dropped this one around organizational firefighting and those valuable fire preventers, which you touch on.

So this one caught my attention on the day.

We got a love on our firefighters, right?

But we got to recognize that we got to get to root cause and limit, eliminate at least a large part of the need for this highly reactive role.

But I'm not gonna steal your thunder.

Tell us more about what the message you were conveying last week.

So this is a really interesting lesson that I learned at Amazon.

We had a new SVP that came in by the name of Marco Netto.

Amazing leader, a lean leader.

I learned a ton about lean from him, but he had this whole philosophy about not rewarding firefighters, and it really revolved around the amount of resources that firefighting takes.

Right.

So when we're in the middle of a firefight, we've got, like, several people fol focused on the issue.

They're working all kinds of hours.

We're sucking all kinds of resources from other teams because we're trying to put out this huge, catastrophic issue that's, you know, in a lot of situations was affecting the Amazon website.

Orders couldn't be taken, Credit cards weren't processing.

Whatever it was was a big problem.

But it started to create a culture of rewarding these people who went through all of this work to save the day.

But it never got down to what was the actual root cause.

So he was bringing in these lessons that were about, like, what actually caused the.

And how could we have prevented the issue from happening in the first place?

Because we don't want to do anything that's ever going to impact the customer ever, ever, ever.

We want everything to be as smooth as silk.

Every time they get into that checkout pipeline, no want you to think about it, just hit that buy button.

And so that was really the focus of it was when we start to reward this behavior of, you know, oh, me and 14 people spent five days putting this to help.

Well, how much did that actually cost us, right?

And what would it have cost us if it had never happened?

And so sometimes what I have seen, especially in startup cultures who are trying to emulate Amazon, right, they're like, we want to be Amazon.

We're going to be the next big Amazon.

They do start to reward the firefighters because they think that's how it's made, right?

Because it's drama and it's sexy and, oh, we did all this crazy stuff.

But the truth is, is that building good, strong, really amazing companies, especially supply chains, is the most unsexy and the bors thing you'll ever in your entire life.

Because if nothing's happening, everything is perfect, folks.

Take that look, David put it as best.

That is pure gold.

I completely agree, David.

And I'm telling you, there's a lot more that Kim can speak on from been there, done that perspective that more organizations need to listen to.

And you know what, it kind of runs.

I think you kind of spoke to this and we're going to drop a link to your blog article.

You kind of spoke to.

Do we reward, do we not reward firefighters?

And probably intuitively we want to hug and love on all the folks that saved the day, but if we don't kind of to one of your many points, if we don't get the root cause and we bake that firefighting into the culture, it's going to stymie growth, frankly, it's going to lessen the employee experience because they've got to, you know, work overtime or do whatever it is to save the day.

And that's where, Kim, the five whys, in some cases the 10 whys, so we can get to root cause and make sure that so much of this, at least 80%, if you think of about it from an 80, 20 standpoint, won't happen again.

Right?

You hit on a really great point, especially with startups, is that if they start to bake this into the culture, it does stall their Growth, they don't get it, right?

They're, they're like, ah, but we're at a billion dollars.

I'm like, that is like in today's startup world, a billion is like a million ten years ago.

Right?

It's great.

It's good that you got there.

But I see a lot of companies that get to a point because they built this into their culture, they can't get out of it.

It.

Okay, we're gonna have several ideas for new podcast series here.

Kim.

Tariffs and stuff and then of course, firefighting and many other things.

Jeremy, we're talking about baking firefighting into cultures.

He's right.

Today's startup world is CMM level one.

It's like a Mario game or something.

Jeremy, good to see you as always.

Okay, Kim, I love it.

We're gonna recircle this.

Maybe we'll break this into one of our upcoming podcasts.

But we've got an outstanding guest here today as we continue this theme of manufacturing Monday right here on the Buzz.

So Keith smith brings over 25 years of industry leadership and experience to the table.

He has served in a variety of critical roles in the manufacturing world, especially from papers and plastic in that sector, including two year stint as general manager of the largest division for a billion dollar paper company.

Big stuff in his background.

Big stuff he's up to now.

So I want to welcome in Keith Smith, President CEO of Von Co Products.

Hey.

Hey, Keith.

How you doing?

Ah, wonderful.

Good to see you, Scott And Kim.

Great to see you as well.

Keith, I bet you were chomping at the bit to jump into that last topic we were talking about, which is firefighting in our organizations.

Huh?

You couldn't hear me?

Yeah, no, it's great.

Oh, it is.

Well, I'll tell you what, we're gonna make management science series here, Kim and Keith, and we'll have to have Keith back home, but we got a lot of stuff to get to here today.

Keith, we're gonna start though with a fun warm up question.

Ken, Keith, y'all know what I like to do around here?

I like with a fun humanizing question.

And we got to go in here today, folks.

Here in the US it is National Beer Day.

Now get this.

It celebrates April 7th way back in 1933, which is a day that the Cullen Harrison act was signed into law.

What'd that do, you ask?

Well, it eliminated the prohibition on selling beer across the country.

So a lot of times I kid around saying parades on each of these national or international days.

Well, I bet there were parades back in 1933 when you could buy a beer again.

So with that, Keith and Kim.

Keith, tell us, what is one of your favorite beers that you're going to enjoy here today to help celebrate National Beer Day?

Well, sitting here in Wisconsin, we really appreciate having a National Beer Day.

So of course, Miller Light is made here in Wisconsin.

You got a big culture of beer, cheese and sausage.

So maybe I'll stick with a domestic Miller Light, but I do enjoy a Guinness from time to time.

But mostly a wine guy.

Okay, I like it.

Keith, sign me up for all that, especially back on the cheese and sausage and beer man.

Sounds delicious.

Kim, that made me hungry.

How about you?

A little bit, but it did.

I'm a Guinness style girl, so we have Guinness and Common.

Yep, that's my favorite beer.

Love that.

I enjoy Blue Moon.

I've enjoyed Amstel Light back in the day and Sol S O L the Mexican beer, which is terrific and it's really grown its market presence.

So I'll have what y'all are having.

How about that?

All right, so Keith, let's level set a bit first before we get into some good stuff for the three folks out there that may be new to you or Vanko Products, tell us a little about yourself and your company.

Yeah.

Von Co Products is a contract manufacturer, mostly serving medical device companies and consumer product companies.

What we do is making either disposable products for fluids in and out of the body.

So think IV bags, tube bags, fluids in, fluids out, your collection bags, drainage bags, or we make the packaging.

We make sterilization packaging and barrier packaging for many of these devices in consumer products.

We also do a fair amount of.

We're not in the food side of the space, but we're in more of the pharmacy side of.

Of the grocery store aisles in shampoos and cleaning, health and hygiene and household chemicals.

But the expounded pouches, like applesauce pouches, we're starting to be able to move away from heavy plastics to much lighter weight plastics in that grocery aisle.

So those are the main areas that Vanko serves.

And Kim, we had quite the pre show conversation.

I brought up the topic of metal stamping and of course that led to contract manufacturing.

And then I got a masterclass between you and Keith about shifts we've seen over the last couple decades, huh?

Yeah, we've seen a lot of shifts in manufacturing.

Kind of when I was sort of getting into the business, we were really starting seeing a lot of outsourcing of product manufacturing.

And it's interesting And I think a lot of people who are not involved in supply chain and don't understand how supply chain works and I bump into a lot of it, more than you would think is that, you know, as an example, the American made car, like with tariffs is very top of mind right now.

Ford, Chevy, Dodge, those companies we think of American cars, 80% of those are made from imported parts estimated.

Now get me, somebody's going to pull out one Ford and be like, but not this Ford in general, they're mostly made from imported parts.

And that goes for a lot of what we see and what we consume in the United States today.

And so this whole old mindset or antiquated way of thinking that Ford makes all its own parts and all its own and it's a Ford is a Ford, Your Ford may be more Dodge than it is Ford and your Chevy may be more Dodge than it is Ford.

That's just way manufacturing works today.

Yeah.

Tell you, the automotive industry in and of itself is so fascinating and we'll see in the coming weeks and months, that conversation is not going away anytime soon.

Okay, Keith and Kim, as we mentioned, this is Manufacturing Monday here on the Buzz and I want to highlight this great read from our friends at Manufacturing Dive.

Let's take a look at some recent data on the US Manufacturing sector.

So again, as reported by Manufacturing Dive, a lot of folks are still bracing themselves as we see the continued impact from, as Kim mentioned, Liberation Day last week.

Not sure if that title is accurate or inaccur, but save that for another show.

Stay tuned.

We talk a lot more about that.

But meanwhile I want to look at the US manufacturing activity and data from March 2025.

So get this Kim and Keith, ISM's purchasing managers index, we talk about this all the time.

The PMI folks, it showed overall contraction in the US Manufacturing sector last month just after we got a little bit of good news in February.

February had shown some, at least a little positive movement and some mild expansion.

Now specifically new orders dropped in March according to ISM PMI data.

Now some attribute that to a few of the disagreements between supplier buyers and customers in terms of who's going to pay for tariff driven price increases.

Wouldn't you like to be a flat on the wall for some of those conversations?

Or maybe not.

Of course a whole bunch more uncertainty over near term demand was also a factor.

Now get this.

Speaking of uncertainty, Timothy Fiore, who's always quoted, he's the chair of IASM's manufacturing business survey Committee, he's always quoted in These releases, he said, quote, the manufacturing economy is struggling primarily due to the tariff uncertainty.

Since we spoke a month ago, there's more confusion and more uncertainty and that's why our PMI number is now weak, end quote.

Now, the data was similar over at S&P.

Global reactivity dropped month over month, meaning February over March.

But here's one data point that their research showed.

AT S P, input price inflation in March rose to its highest level since August 2022.

Okay, so Keith, we tried to summarize a lot more in the data, folks, and y'all check it out.

We're gonna drop link, right?

Actually, Trisha's already dropped link right here.

Go check it out on your own.

But Keith, you've been in this room for a long time.

You're leading a manufacturer now.

Your thoughts on what you're seeing out there?

He hit the nail on the head.

It's the uncertainty that's causing the slowdown.

You're not going to make big purchases.

You're going to kind of wait and see as long as you can, especially as prices are changing.

We are very domestic supply base, but we do have a few overseas suppliers that pricing is changing while on the water, let's call it.

And so that is a bit challenging to deal with as you've made contracts and commitments on, on one end of the business compared to the cost side on the other side of the business.

So certainly a wait and see look is where most of my suppliers and customers are sitting.

Yeah, Keith, excellent point.

And Kim, that reminds me some of Keith's perspective there.

I think Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors mentioned, I'm gonna paraphrase her quote from a few weeks ago.

She basically said we're not gonna spend billions and billions of dollars when we're uncertain about where we're going is kind of what she was quoted as saying.

But Kim, whether it's commenting on something Keith shared there or what you're seeing out in the manufacturing industry right now.

You know, we did see a surge in Q4 of last year.

Anticipation after the elections.

We knew there was going to be some tariff activity coming.

So we did see a surge.

A lot of manufacturers kind of front loaded in Q4 of last year.

Consumer spending is starting to tighten.

We're seeing a little decreases in luxury spending.

Restaurant spending is down all time high and people being behind on their mortgage payments, credit card statements or our balances are at an all time high.

So we're entering an era where people are already uncertain.

Inflation has not really been letting up and now we're going to have taxes and additional duties on almost everything that we consume.

So there is a ton of uncertainty.

Consumers are very worried.

We're starting to see some hoarding.

People are moving ahead with big purchases like cars, automobiles, appliances.

Trying to get those in before there is additional tariffs on those.

But people are starting to panic, Panic.

You know, I hope you're wrong and I hope it's quelled.

I think we all do probably.

But speaking of big purchases, we had to go out and order a dagum dryer over the weekend.

That is the last thing I wanted to do.

But when your heater goes out, you have limited technical skills.

Look, you're doing it now.

That's right.

You know, and we're seeing more to your point, Ken, we are seeing more of those purchases ahead of time, folks.

Trying to get out ahead of what the weeks coming up and months are going to bring.

This may be Andrew again.

He kind of asked rhetorically how long we'll wait and see.

Will we be in that wait and see mode.

You think there's got to be a tipping point in moving forward.

Hey, if I had answers to that, I'd be a billionaire.

As Kim was talking about and not doing live streams here today.

Probably.

Okay, let's talk about contract manufacturing next.

Keith and Kim.

Now folks, we got the smartest audience in all of global supply chain, right?

So 99.9999% of folks know this contract manufacturing primarily involves a company that hires another organization to produce parts or products.

Two questions for you, Keith.

I'm going to start with the first one.

What does the 2025 landscape look like for the contract manufacturing world?

I think it's going to be very interesting because of the tariffs that we're going to see the US Contract manufacturing space be of interest again.

And so I think that is a great opportunity for the domestic based contract manufacturers and for those countries that don't end up having tariffs.

For me specifically, I'm on the healthcare side and we're actually having a pretty good start to the year.

Covid had really high demand in healthcare as you might imagine.

There were some win and some losers in that.

But then there was a kind of a destocking period in the supply chain and we're normalizing but also a bit of stagflation is occurring which can tend to be.

We may not be out purchasing a ton on the consumer side, but we take care of our health.

And so we're seeing many of the major med device companies hitting off to the Year with a bang.

So I expect with some of this uncertainty there is still going to be a strong healthcare market throughout the rest of the year.

Yep.

Okay, that's good news.

I like rosy projections, especially for folks in the know like you, Keith.

Kim, what'd you hear there and what would you add?

You got your finger on the pulse of any contract manufacturing community members.

I'm not huge into healthcare, obviously that's not my area of expertise.

But yes, we are seeing slowing in manufacturing, a slowing in orders because things are uncertain.

Right.

We don't want to agree to a price and then it goes up 30% in two weeks or it goes down 30% in two weeks.

And I've been taking a little time to look at, you know, what happened last week, but also what has been happening since January and February.

Right.

And if we take like the auto as an example and also aluminum steel, we put, you know, big tariffs on aluminum steel, 25 and 10% was a really big deal.

But how was that actually implemented?

Well, we gave a pass for Canada and Mexico.

We finally gave up on that one.

And what we actually implemented were actual TRQs or deterior freight quotas, which is you can still import at the current rate, but only up to a certain amount.

So how will we begin to implement all these new tariffs that we heard about last week?

How will they actually be implemented, I think is the big question and that will drive what people actually end up doing.

Kim, well said as always.

And you know, I'll talk about a wish list really quick.

I really wish we had more definition and clarity and certainty in the new policies with some longer term timeframes so we could digest everything that was taking place and be in a better position to, you know, mitigate.

Because that's, I mean, different things for all sorts of different companies based on a number of different factors.

So that's not what we have.

We're left maybe wishing and hoping that we see a flurry of deal making in the next few weeks.

But we'll see, we'll see.

Cam and Keith, my crystal ball has been broken for a long time.

It's been broken.

And so when I talk to people in the industry right now, they're like, what do we do?

And I think Keith is probably hearing a lot of the same thing is what do we do?

What do we do?

What do we do?

And my answer has been wait 48 hours.

Like wait and see what happens.

Don't react quite yet.

And I'm sure Keith is probably seeing something similar in his industry.

As well or people are starting to panic.

Wait and see, Keith.

Wait and see.

You know, taking a breath, huh?

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, you see what happened with Vietnam as well, right?

Just in within a matter of two days, all of a sudden they come to the table to negotiate and now we're, you know, holding back on tariffs there you talked about Mexico and Canada coming to the table and all of a sudden these things are being pulled back.

It seems like we're at least starting to see a little bit of a pattern.

What we're trying to ach achieve here is let's get to the table and have a conversation.

Can agree or disagree with the tactic, but that's what I feel the wait and see pattern is is will the other countries show up and negotiate or not.

I guess I'm expecting if you don't, these tariffs are going to stick.

It's kind of where I'm heading with it.

Our audience has heard me say this a thousand, maybe a million times now.

This too shall pass.

It may pass like a kidney stone, but this too shall pass.

Okay, a couple quick comments before I pose a second question.

Let's see.

Jeremy says, I'm certain US infrastructure needs some improvement.

Households as infrastructure.

Jeremy.

That's right.

That is right.

LK says what Kim said.

That's right.

Some sellers may be hesitant to sign long term contracts because our costs would go up as well and could possibly put them in the red.

Excellent point.

Okay, back to contract manufacturing.

This is a really important question, Keith, and I'm glad you're here as an expert to address for us because you know, companies are going through selection processes for no shortage of things including including new contract manufacturing partnerships.

So Keith, given all of your experience and expertise in this space, what's a couple of key considerations that business leaders should consider when selecting a new contract manufacturer?

I think the first big one, Scott, is to consider capability.

What is your current core competencies and is what you're trying to do or manufacture really within your core competencies?

You also need to understand where you are in your growth life cycle of a product.

Product.

You know, you're not wanting to bet the farm early on in a product and so it's easier to keep that variable cost.

And likewise, as a product matures and starts to move on a decline, you don't want to have all the fixed costs associated to a mass production environment.

And there's many contract manufacturers such as myself that as scale that we can absorb that fixed cost among many other customers that allows that decline for our customers.

To be a variable cost versus absorbing fixed costs through an aging product life cycle cycle.

Good stuff.

And I like the first one in particular, Kim, because it's so universal.

So universal.

And kind of my spin on what he shared there is know thy business like thyself.

You know what, what's our core competencies?

What are our objectives?

What are we looking to specifically, you know, take beyond the four walls.

But what'd you hear, Kim, from Keith, or what would be your own suggestions?

I think you know, Keith, talking about know your business and know your core competencies are going to be really key.

And if you are a company that is a US Manufacturer or has product, product that's mostly made in the United States and you know, thusly qualifies for made in the United States, start leaning into that.

Start advertising the fact.

And it's not just the fact that your product's made in the United States.

That's great and you want to lean into that.

But also your supply chain should be pretty stable as well.

You're not going to have the disruptions that your competition may potentially have because you're relying on importing from another country.

The prices are going to go up and down also.

Just and as we saw in Covid, you may simply just not be able to get the product.

So if you are a US Manufacturer and you are debt, definitely in a good position right now and you should lean into that, but also make sure that you lean into the products.

So, you know, I think a little bit of what Keith is trying to say is like don't go crazy and start trying to make, you know, stamped aluminum when your products have really been plastic and paper.

Excellent, excellent points there, Kim, as usual.

Okay, Keith and Kim, I wish we had a whole bunch more time on this Fine Monday morning.

It's April 7, 2025.

Already feels like we were just talking about the super bowl, right?

And we blink.

A couple months are passed.

Keith, before we wrap with your segment here and really appreciate you joining us, I want to ask kind of a take a hard right turn, ask you something else because we get feedback all the time.

Email, social comments, you name it.

Folks want to know how to move up that proverbial ladder and break into the C suite, be CEO of an organization, a manufacturer, you name it.

So what would be a piece of advice or two from you on those folks that want that upward mobility?

I think certainly resiliency and tenacity.

You can't give up.

You just have to keep grinding it out throughout the years to move to that Direction in my case, or even I would call myself a bit entrepreneurial, buying my own business as well, that you need to take that risk too, right?

So you work and gain that experience over time.

You always find a way to say yes to get that experience.

But at some point you got to take that leap.

And I find that I hear a lot of folks from an entrepreneurial standpoint are saying, hey, I'm going to put my hat in the ring on this thing, or I'm going to make a strong push to move into an executive role.

It's tend to be a bit nervous of what you have to lose more than what you have to gain.

And I would say, you know, take that leap when it feels just a little bit uncomfortable.

Yes.

That's not million dollar, that's billion dollar advice, folks, from someone that has taken the risks, taken the leap.

And like you said, I think the last part, Kim, first off, I love the resiliency and tenacity.

That's quite the duo.

And if you can really lean in and develop those traits and what it means in your own personal leadership style, that's quite a duo.

But risk taking and taking the leap, when everything is not certain, you're going to still have some variables in the good old equation, but that's why it's called risk taking now.

It doesn't mean to go to Vegas, put all of your money on Red 19.

Obviously, that's not the kind of risk we're talking about.

Although Red 19 delivers sometimes.

But, Kim, what'd you hear there?

What advice would you offer?

I mean, you've also obviously are a successful executive and entrepreneur.

What would you offer them out there?

You know, the biggest thing and Keith mentioned this is saying, yes, I always preach and it's a lesson I learned the hard way.

And we could probably do a whole podcast on this is that there is no no.

That's what I tell people all the time.

You cannot tell me no.

You can give me seven different answers of yes, but you cannot tell me no.

And the answer can't be, you'll do this and you'll go to jail, but you can't tell me no.

And so that is one.

If you want to grow, there is no, no.

The second one I see is always be in a place of learning.

The one thing that I see that executives do, the biggest mistake I see get consistently is they get that executive title and they shut it off because you're like, well, now I know everything.

And they stop learning.

And when you stop learning, you stop listening.

When you stop listening, you stop growing.

And when you stop growing, you can't grow a company if you're not growing yourself.

That's just the way it happens.

So continue to learn.

I always tell people and kindness, we forget to be kind.

The higher we get up there.

We start barking orders and calling people on Saturday morning.

And I need this and I need this, that.

And you know, we forget that all of these people who we are now responsible for as a leader, you become responsible for those humans and for those souls.

And you need to be kind to them and you need to help them.

That's your job, Kim.

Excellent.

And you know, Kim and Keith, you know, one of the themes of this whole conversation here today has been the disruption and the pressure and the concern out there, whether it's tied to business or if it's tied to, you know, personal households and families.

And I think talking about leadership, that's exactly when your team needs you the most.

And being empathetic to what they're feeling and the pressures are feeling, I think that's really, really important to call out.

So, Keith, I don't see you calling anybody barking anything on a Saturday morning.

I don't get that from you.

Yeah, that's not how we roll.

Our ultimate core value is we care more, so we care more about ourselves first.

Very similar what Kim was saying.

You got to put it into yourself.

You then poured into the folks that we work with.

That pours into our customers, which ultimately into a patients and consumers we serve.

Excellent point.

And Kim, I've got to work better on not slacking anybody on the weekend, weekends.

You guys are weekend workers.

I will say that guilty is charged.

But Kim and Keith, what a great conversation.

Keith, really have enjoyed what you shared here today and of course, always enjoy Kim's commentary.

Keith, before we let you go, how can folks connect with you and the Vanko Products team?

Yeah, it's www.vanco.com.

certainly look up Keith Smith on LinkedIn.

And then for my personal journey, I do a fair amount of entrepreneurial coaching.

That's Keith Smith.

Okay, outstanding.

Learn something new every day, folks.

We're dropping several of those links there right in the chat, including Vanko.com you want to click away from learning a lot more about Keith and his team.

Keith Smith, president CEO with Vanko Products, thanks so much for being here.

My pleasure.

And we will see you soon.

Have a great week.

We're bring you back and have a update soon.

Have a great week.

Great.

You too.

Oh, Kim, man, that was a great segment.

It we got so many ideas for new shows and we got tons of comments here.

Let's see the comments.

Like why we were going.

Like I was trying, I was like, you're gonna have to stop reading those.

Because there I was getting a little, I was getting a little fired up.

But like, wait a minute, there was some argument in there about firefighting versus not fire.

Like, I was like, oh, it's a hot topic.

It is a hot topic.

No pun intended.

All right, so we dropped Keith's on LinkedIn, his profile.

So y'all check that out.

Hey, Tomcat, great to see see you.

Now, you know, you made an appearance.

You hold down the fort force over on Twitch.

Now you got to bring a supply chain.

Ha.

Coupe.

We'll see if Tomcat can do that before we leave.

All right, let me go back to some of these comments.

Larry Klein says that's correct.

Leaders aren't bosses.

Or at least I might put a spin on that.

Kim, I love working for leaders that don't approach their role as a boss.

Would you agree with that?

I would agree.

And I hate to quote Carnegie, I don't know why I hate to quote him, but he had a thing on.

I mean, I guess because he was like back in the day that was all the leadership coaching you could get, right?

And he had a quote that was, it is easier to pull a string than push a string.

And when that was taught to me when I was in my early 20s, I didn't really get that right.

I was like, okay, whatever, right strings.

But I get it now and that it is so much easier to lead by example and pull your team with you than to push people.

And you know, I've done a lot of leadership and like big scale and change leadership and building big scale projects.

And if your people aren't happy, you are never going to be successful.

Successful, yes.

I've seen it happen a million times.

And the companies will get to a certain level of success and they just cannot push past it.

And it's because of leadership almost always.

Yeah, I'm throwing down the leadership gauntlet here today.

We should all take note.

And maybe I think now is a great time to do a kind of some self reflection and you know, self inventory of where we are as leaders right now, especially in really challenging times.

Because, Kim, I'm about to get one of your key takeaways from Keith's appearance here today.

But you got me thinking out loud here.

It's pretty easy to be an effective leader when times are good, right?

And all those Upswings and coming off big successes.

But, man, when things get tough and whether that's, you know, kind of inside the four walls or if it's just market conditions or whatever it is, that's when the knees get wobbly and sometimes you lose your finger on the pulse of your own sense of confidence and where that comes from.

Right, so, Kim, excellent, excellent points here today.

So, all right, so Keith dropped a ton, ton of good stuff here today.

Before we wrap here, Kim, give me one of your favorite takeaways from Keith Smith's appearance here.

He's talked about manufacturing.

I think the biggest piece that Keith talked about, and we didn't really highlight it, it was a little bit subtle.

So I want to really bring it to the forefront is knowing your business, knowing your product, knowing what you manufacture, knowing what your sweet spot is and really sticking with that.

And he talked about it just a little bit.

But Keith is massively successful in what he does.

He's a very, very successful entrepreneur and business leader.

And I think that is the key, is that he knows his business, he knows what he's doing, and he focuses on that.

And it's easy to fool ourselves there, Kim.

It's easy to fool ourselves into what our organizational strengths are, core capabilities.

And we got to be really frank and honest with ourselves and with our teams.

Right?

What I see a lot, because I work with quite a few startups and that are, you know, trying to accelerate very quickly.

You know, they need a little nitrous, as I call it, they lose focus, and what happens is they get excited, they have some success, and then they're like, oh, my God, we're gonna sell skis.

I'm like, why you sell steak?

Why wouldn't it be so amazing if our logo was on some skis and people could see it and that'd be free advertising and this, that, and the other.

I'm like, well, we are not in ski manufacturing.

We are not in ski anything.

But what happens is they get excited and they have some success, and they think that it will translate to whatever they see next.

And that doesn't always happen happen.

And that is where I see a lot of startups fail is because they lost focus on what they're good at.

Excellent point there, Kim.

I feel that one in my bones.

All right, so let's do this.

One other thing, Kim, that I enjoyed.

I think I've got a graphic here, and we're going to drop the link to this chat here.

So Kim loved our chat with Jeffrey.

She who serves as CEO of DeMarco Express Group.

Now, when it came to customs and trade in this conversation, I had no idea that this is where you began your career back in the day.

And I really enjoyed your perspective at one point in time during this conversation here, I wouldn't got some popcorn, a diet Coke and just watched the ping pong ball between you and Jeffrey.

So the interesting question here, Kim, that we're not gonna have enough time.

So it's kind of an unfair question.

But I want you to weigh in here.

So given that experience in your career, right, your experience in trade and customs and that kind of stuff, how does that shape your view?

View on what we're seeing right now?

As you know, we've talked about this massive change in tariff policies from the US Side.

We talked about this a little bit before the show.

And you know, I have my old woman attitude which has been there, done that a little bit.

If you went through Y2K as a broker, this is like snooze fest.

You're like whatever until they're breaking out the carbon paper and the typewriters, I think we're good.

No, but on all seriousness, you know, the advice that I've been giving to a lot of people is don't react too quickly.

This can all change in 48 hours.

I talked a little bit earlier about how we've actually seen things implemented.

The steel and aluminum tariffs and also the auto parts and auto as an example.

There was a lot of media and bluster around it.

But actually what got implemented wasn't that big of a deal.

So wait and see.

It's very scary.

It's going to take at least three to five years for us to pick up manufacturing in the United States at the level that we would need if we completely cut off China.

So I think we're going to be in for a bumpy ride if we stay on this course.

Undoubtedly.

And Kim, I might add to what you're sharing there, folks, if anyone out there tells you exactly what you need to do right now at 12:53pm Eastern Time on April 7, you better run the other direction as fast.

If you run slow.

Send me that money.

Oh my gosh.

It is interesting times and that's putting it very mildly.

Okay, folks, we dropped the link to that great episode.

Check it out.

You're going to see a whole new version.

I think of Kim Reuter and maybe you're like me, I didn't fully appreciate that component of our journey.

So check out that episode there.

So Kim, we have got national supply chain Day coming up on April 29th.

Now, we would invite all of y'all to come celebrate.

Me and Mary Kate Love are going to be hosting a live stream on that day.

April 29th is Tuesday, but it's going to be like a supply chain variety show.

We're still finalizing the guest list, but we really want to, number one, celebrate the people that make supply chains move forward every single day.

That's the overarching goal.

But we want to have conversations focused on transportation, on reverse logistics, on manufacturing, kind of all the different sectors that make up the holistic supply chain.

So folks, if you can't join us, which I know all of y'all are busy, April 29th at 12 noon, if you can't join us, that's no problem.

We just challenge you to celebrate, especially the people in supply chain in your own neck of the woods.

And we're dropping a link so folks can join us.

It's right there, folks.

One click away from learning a whole bunch more about National Supply Chain Day.

And especially the people, people that make up this industry, they need their own month.

Huh?

I mean, we take six months would be ideal, but a month just to get a day.

And I think someone made a comment in here that it's truly thankless.

We did talk about that.

Tomcat, like supply chain is truly a thankless job.

So true.

We are the reason why there is food on the shelf when you go in the grocery store.

Yeah, no doubt.

And we take it for granted.

All of us do take it for granted.

Okay.

What an outstanding addition.

Wide ranging edition of the Buzz, folks.

There's a whole bunch more.

First off, wherever you your organization is, you know, I know it's a tough time for a lot of folks.

There's a lot of uncertainty.

There's a lot of concern professionally and personally.

And you know, the markets are going crazy and all that.

Hold the faith.

We're going to get through all of this.

We're going to gain some more certainty.

It's not going to be easy, but I am practically optimistic that going to get through all of this and be in a much better spot in the weeks and months ahead.

So Kim Reuter, always a pleasure.

Thanks for joining.

Appreciate all of your perspective here today.

Kim, do you share that practical opportunity?

Optimism, yes.

Kind of.

Yeah.

Hey, we'll take it.

We're not going to turn on manufacturing in the United States in six months.

Like it's just not going to happen.

I'm with you.

I'm with you.

And you know, we need a healthy dose of skepticism and practicality.

Or I guess, better put, it's called pragmatic thinking.

But we really need that, right?

Really need that.

So we'll see how it all plays out.

Big thanks to Keith Smith.

Hey, Keith did a great job.

Of course, Keith is with Thon Co Products, folks.

Connect with Keith.

You'll enjoy that.

I really enjoyed the pre show and the real show, so to speak, here today.

Big thanks to Amanda and Trisha behind the scenes helping to make production happen.

Most importantly, big thanks to all of our global audience for being here with us.

I know we couldn't hit everybody's comment and questions and whatnot, but really appreciate what you do.

Safe travels to all of y'all.

And you've got homework because Keith and Kim brought it here today.

You got to take one thing they shared, put it into practice, share it with the team.

Because all about deeds, not words, right?

With all that said, on behalf of the entire Supply Chain now team, Scott Luden challenge.

You do good, get forward, be the change that's needed.

And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks everybody.

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