How did a small purple dragon become the defining symbol of imagination in the Disney parks. To explore that and other questions, I went on location at the Epcot International Festival of the Arts, where I sat down with Disney legend Tony Baxter and Michael Young, the CEO of Disney Fine Art, for two conversations connected by imagination, Art and legacy. Tony reflects on and shares fascinating stories about fiction, figment, journey into imagination, and the artwork he created long before many of his most iconic Disney projects even existed. Inspired by Mary Poppins, his mentor Claude Coates, and of course, the music and friendship with the Sherman brothers. Then Michael shares how Disney Fine Art helps preserve Disney's creative legacy and connects generations of fans through storytelling. These are conversations about imagination, mentorship, and why Disney art means so much more than just what hangs on the wall. Hello, my friend, and welcome to WW Radio, your guide to Disney parks and experiences around the world. I'm your host and your friend, Lou Mongello, and this is show number 855. Whether this is your first time joining me or you've been with me and the community since the very beginning 20 years ago, thank you for being here and welcome home. Please be part of the community and conversation over in the clubhouse@www.radio.com clubhouse and watch and chat live this and every Wednesday at 7:30pm Eastern for WWRadio Live on Facebook and YouTube. And subscribe to my free weekly email newsletter to get a weekly dose of Disney, Catch up on everything you missed, and exclusive content and contests in your inbox. Plus, when you do, I will send you a free gift. You can subscribe over@www.com newsletter and when you're ready to plan your next Disney vacation, visit my friends over@m MouseFanTravel.com or for completely free expert planning from the team that I have relied on for more than 18 years to help make every trip seamless and unforgettable. It's Who I trust. It's who you should as well. You can visit them over@m MouseFanTravel.com and if you would like the show, and I hope that you do, please rate review and more importantly, share it with a friend. And we're gonna dive right in with my conversation with Michael Young, the CEO of Disney Fine Art, who's worked for decades alongside Disney artists and imagineers and to help preserve Disney's creative legacy and storytelling through art. From there, we'll go right into my conversation with Disney legend Tony Baxter. So sit back, relax and enjoy this week's episode of the WDW radio show. So, Michael, we are here on clearly a very busy Saturday at the Epcot International Festival of the Arts. And just from a 30,000 foot view for guests who are just sort of walking up to this booth and all the booths that they're going to find throughout. I still call it Future World and World Showcase. What do you sort of hope that they immediately sort of understand about what Disney fine art is?

Well, it's interesting. I think it's evolved in that when Disney created this license and they were doing this project and this work inside as a vertical product, when it was licensed out in 2002, it went to a fine art group. So that's what our company was, a fine art. I was on the Disney side. We licensed it to Collector's edition. So it really was to bring interpretive fine art, so artists styles of their own work into their environments and their worlds, whether it was impressionistic or abstract. And that's kind of what this started as. And we still do that. So our license, we still have the national license for that. It's evolved into many other things as the parks developed artists to almost emulate what we're doing. So you'll see park art that's exclusively theme park driven, attraction driven. And you'll see art like we've got that steps outside of the theme park. So it has grown. I think it's the, what I understand is the fastest growing event they've got. It was the downtime, no convention time at Epcot and now it's 39 days of madness. It is food, drink, entertainment, Broadway art. There's visual arts, performance art.

It's amazing.

And we're lucky to be kind of right in the middle. And we call this our Legends booth. And the first thing you walk in is you see someone like Tony Back Surf, which is pretty iconic. If you're a Disney fan and follow anything Disney or the history of Disney.

I mean, to your point, The Festival of the Arts. I think the word arts means so many different things to so many different people. And different people are here for different reasons, many of whom are here just to see Tony Baxter.

Yes.

But, you know, you. And one of the things I love about this festival is not just it's a perfect time of the year, the weather, but there are so many different varieties and styles of art like this physical art. You have the power to say yes to so many different people, but also still have to be very protective of the legacy of Disney fine art and Disney artists. How do you sort of strike that very delicate balance between figuring out who to say yes to and who you have to say that unfortunate no to?

That is the. That's the million dollar question, because who am I? I've loved art. I looked after it at Disney a little bit in their animation program and got to work with Peter Ellenshaw a little bit, which was my first kind of foray, dipped my hands into this, which is not a bad place to start. It's interesting. There's only so much you can do. There's only so many places you can put art. So many galleries. And in the last, like retail in the last 15 years, it's kind of dwindled.

So we handle.

If it's something unique and different and we can't say no to. We try to make it work. It's also super competitive, and we have very few places to put the art, which is why I love what the park's done, because they've opened that avenue for people. Well, they can only sell it here, but at least they've got a place to sell it. And this. This event's grown. I mean, we were doing this event in the. When it was at this. At the Springs, when there was no Disney. And it evolved into the parking lot where Cirque du Soleil is. And then it came here by default because they built the parking garages and it's allowed so many artists to have their start here. What I love is art. We're near Ringling and all these great art schools and students and college program kids come to talk to us. And the artists that we work with are really supportive in helping them, you know, do what they got to do. I say that there are probably 10,000 fantastic artists, only a handful we can work with. So we're always talking to them and encouraging them and trying to find places to go. But it is tough. It is.

And who am I?

I'm a. I'm a guy that's partially colorblind that can barely write my name. And I'm running the art publishing program for Disney.

But you do come from a unique vantage point, right, because you. From the music side and consumer product side. So you understand the importance of preserving legacy and, you know, sometimes learning and being able to say no. It might be difficult, but you understand the importance of what these images and what these artists represent.

It is. And I think that the people that have the stories or the connections to the past, whether it's digital or traditional art, I think, you know, it's always great to paint paintings, like to. Like to smell the oil and the acrylic and all that. But I do think that having that background started Disney Records, so I love that here you can. You know, it's not just art. There's Broadway and there's all kinds of. There's. There's culinary arts. There's all kinds of things happening here. So I do think that. That it's. It's amazing where it's come in. My almost 30 years of kind of doing this and the fact I can end up now sitting with Tony Baxter and hearing those stories and those guests, and that's the most. To me, the most rewarding thing is the people that I've worked with for 20 or 25 years that were 19 or 20 or 25 years old, that have grown with us, that are still here and here every week, every year, every day. And then you get to sit with a Tony Baxter and you talk about his history and what it means. And, you know, someone said yesterday, it's kind of like, I kind of agree with this, and I'm not comparing to walls at all. But in our day, in our time, a creative person like Tony, who kind of sees things all over, from architectural to art to engineering to flow and operations, is really a complete package. And the stories and Tony preserving the stories of figment and people that from 6 years old that are in love with figment and know more about figment than I could ever know. It's just fascinating. I think this is really. This show, I think more than any of them, really brings the magic or preserves the magic in a big way.

And I think that's the operative word, right, is preserving and legacy and. And I'm not going to let you get away because you said, oh, who am I? You know, you have. You've worked with Roy Disney, you've helped Shepherd Destino. So I think you understand your sense of responsibility to the history as well as to the artists themselves, because these pieces are not temporary. They're going to live in somebody's home and be passed down from generation to generation.

That, that's a great point. And I was lucky enough when I was the end of my Disney corporate life to meet Roy and to work on Destino. And he was an amazing champion and he was our spokesperson and it's like our granddad. And he helped us bring that to life, whether it was cruise ships or galleries. It meant a lot to me. And through that relationship, I got to meet some great people at the studio. The Dave Bosserts, the Tony Baxters, and people that worked on films and shorts and things that you would never see. And that means a ton. So, you know, the Roys and the Peter Ellen Shaws in the early days and then Harrison Ellenshaw, I think that we tried to keep that alive and we try to get variations of those works that are still relevant today so people understand where it came from. And it's super important. You've got imagineering and I hope to be able to publish some of that someday too. Some more of that. I've got one here. But it does mean a lot and I've been very blessed and work hard to help as many people and guests understand this and have it part of their lives.

So you mentioned so many iconic names, including but not limited, Tony Baxter, Ellen Shaw, Karl Barks, Tim Burton.

Yeah.

What is sort of the common trait that you find across all these artists, regardless of the mediums that they work in?

I think it's, you know, I don't want to sound cliche. Storytelling. They've all got a very unique way to tell their story. The art is all very different. You can walk around this event or any gallery and you'll see things that are similar. Everyone's got it's from their heart. So I wouldn't say they riff on each other, but artists do riff on each other. They learn from each other. Happens all the time. Our artists want to paint more like Karl Barks or they get something from Tony and they see this rawness. And I think that that is, that's super important. And I think that that's a line that we try to weave is that storytelling line. I think that, you know, synergy was over, kind of overplayed, but it really is about pulling things together to make something better. And I do think having the ability to tell those stories and preserve those artists stories is super important.

Well, I think when you're curating these artists, I think it's not just about what is on the parenthetical canvas, but I have to imagine the discussions you have to have with them to make sure that they should be part of this conversation. Because it is more than just the art itself. It is the intent, it is the passion, it is the storytelling.

I always say that that's super important. And we're lucky enough to have some artists and executives at Disney, like an Alex Mair, who I've known forever as an artist, and now he's part of our approval process and part of the creative process. And to work with these people about why something is something it doesn't. You know, me look at something and say, oh, it's a Mickey and a Minnie. But there's. There's a story behind that. And I think it's really important that the artists, we ask them to kind of convey the meaning of a piece when you send it in. So it's not just, I'm doing a Mickey, I'm doing a stitch. What are they doing? And you should be able to convey, I think, our program in a nutshell. It's your work as an artist infused and incorporated into a Disney lifestyle or environment. And if that can tell a story, you should be able to walk through the park and know a Mickey is Tim Rogersons or Michelle St. Laurent or Trevor Carlton. I think that's super important. Or Dom Corona. And everyone's got their look and feel. And I think, Elaine, without getting boxed in, I think that's important for them to express themselves.

You know, one of the things that I love. And again, having the privilege of getting to talk to Tony early this morning in the shadow of the Great Pyramids of the Imagination Pavilion, you know, Figment, sort of, almost unofficially, over time, sort of became the mascot for the parks. And in the last number of years, with this renewed sense of nostalgia and Figment really has sort of become such a prominent figure. And I love the fact that so many different artists have the ability and thanks to you, the. The opportunity to reinterpret this character in so many different ways. I think that speaks volume not just about, again, the character and the legacy and the storytelling, but what he represents for Epcot and I think for Disney fans, too.

Yeah, it's interesting. There's a piece by Tim Rogerson that we did this year, and it kind of paying homage to Figment and the design of Figment and to Tony a little bit. And there's a little. Little character of Tony in the bottom. And Tony was really. It was super important to Tony that it wasn't. Wasn't invented or created by Tony. But imagine with Others. And I think that's a great. A great opportunity that we have now that we can preserve figment. Because the amount of people that walk up to our line and talk about figment or want to talk about figment from six years old yesterday, who knew more about the character and Tony and imaginary than I could ever imagine, to grandparents. We're seeing three, four generations come through here. And I think they're so passionate about that character and that attraction. And they always ask the same question. Can there be a movie? Can we bring it back? Where is Dreamfinder? And I've learned so much. I knew very little about being a West coast person in Disneyland, very little about figment, till I started coming out here. And I learned something every single day from every single person from 5 years up till 95 years old. And I just adore these conversations. And it's. It's mesmerizing to me how much it resonates in their hearts. And it is part of their lives. It's not just a character. It is part of their lives. And that, to me is the most special time, is standing out talking to guests for five hours a day with Tony Baxter and having that privilege of being there to open packages and help people through the line and get a signature and tell their story and share a bit of their history in life. And it's very emotional. It's very emotional. And as I wind down, someday in my career, that's probably going to be one of the most spectacular things that I experience.

Well, I think. I mean, look, Tony's line this morning, evidence is that we see it around on, you know, today's a busy Saturday. The fact that the artists are here adds so much more to being able to just take something home with you, because now you have that connection. It's not about the signature. It's about the story. And the story that you are going to pass down as you pass down this piece of art to your children and your grandchildren. Because I met Tony Baxter, and this is what he said to me, or I met Noah, or I met Trevor, whoever it might be. And I think having the artists here is so critical to the overall experience.

And it's really important. And we really make it clear to the artists that we represent that that is the biggest part of this. It's not the sale, it's not the signature. But touch that person and they come back every year and help them. And a lot of students come and a lot of college program kids, and what do we do? And every art, I tell them exactly who to go talk to, and they do. And they'll spend time with them and they're here to paint or they're here to draw or sketch and take a photo, but really the people that come here that want to understand it and how do I, I'm the next generation. What do I do? And I love the fact that our artists are very genuinely interested in helping them and sharing Instagram and social and phone numbers about what to do and draw, draw, draw, practice and don't just do digital, but try to do both and really have, and you know, have it be multi, multi talented and have an asset or be valuable to a company in more than one way. And Tony tells the story all the time. You can be a great artist, you can be a great architect, but if you can do the whole thing and understand operations and a little bit of engineering and if you can speak a language, the more things you can do like that, to tell your story and share your passion, the better.

And all the artists and Tony is within earshot. So I hope they understand and realize that that short conversation might just be for a young budding artist, you know, not just a personal moment, but sort of a mini masterclass because they're going to take away that one bit of not just, you know, design technique, but that little bit of inspiration that they got from this person that it can literally change the trajectory of their future.

Absolutely. And there's no question, and I wish you would have mentioned that Tony's an earshot because now I'm looking over at him, but I will say that that does.

He's taking notes.

I'm 100% sure that every year we impact and change, whether it's 1 or 15 or 20 or 100 lives. Every day we lives. And there's a gal we're going to meet in a minute named Kate who's been coming here since she was 3. And she paints for us every year, a little canvas. And she's. I think she's nine now and she's teaching an art chalk class today. That's her passion. So, you know, you hear these cliche like, you can do what you want to do and live your dream. It happens here every day. And I am so proud to, like see these people coming back. And some are painting for us now that came 10 years ago are painting for the parks. And I think it's just fantastic.

I obviously did not know Walt. I don't think I could speak for Walt, but I think he'd be very proud. Just looking at the smiles on the faces of everybody who is coming in and out of these booths that you're sort of really creating a recipe for happiness for a lot of guests over multi generations. So, Michael, obviously, Tony and every. Thank you guys for what you do.

Thank you for being here. And I thank Walt for allowing me to have the best seat in the house at Epcot. Absolutely.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, Lynn. Appreciate it.

My next guest obviously needs introduction, but I'm going to give him one anyway because his work has shaped generations of Disney fans, often maybe without them realizing just how much he has helped imagination he's instilled in them. Because Tony Baxter is a very well deserving Disney legend and really, I think, one of the most influential creative leaders in the history of Walt Disney imagineering. With more than four decades at Disney, he helped bring to life attractions and experiences that really are foundational to the Disney parks, from Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to Star Tours to Splash Mountain and the original, and still the best journey into imagination. And he is the creative mind behind Figment, a character who has come to represent not just Epcot and imagination, but so many things to Disney fans from around the world. And it was truly an honor and a privilege to get some time to speak with Tony again. While he was signing at the Disney Fine Art booth at the EPCOT International Festival of the Art, I had a chance to speak with him on before the booth opened early on a Saturday morning. This is not the first time I've had a chance to speak with Tony. You can go listen to my first conversation with him back on show 372, where we had a little bit more time to talk about everything from Disney fandom, the resurgence at the time of Disney animated films, Walt new attractions, Fantasyland, Yes, Journey into Imagination and Figment, and some of the interactivity in the Disney parks and what the future may hold. And. And because that show was more than 10 years ago, I think it might be interesting to go back, listen to our conversation then, and see where we are now. But I want to share this week's conversation again, recorded live at the EPCOT International Festival of the Arts, where Tony reflects not just on attractions, but more importantly and the reason why he was there. We talk about some of the artwork that he is showcasing at the festival, artwork that he painted years ago and the connections to Mary Poppins and what would eventually become changes to Fantasyland and Disneyland. We talk about some of the mentors that helped shaped him and what he hopes guests feel when they take a piece of Disney art home with them and My hope is that you feel like you are sitting at that table at the festival with us as Tony shares these incredible stories. And I can tell you, and you'll be able to hear this yourself. He is not just a remarkable talent, but a kind, humble, and generous man. My friend, I give you Disney legend Tony Baxter. So, Tony, you are so used to creating places and spaces that guests walk through and that you sort of have control over the perspective when people come to see paintings that you created. Does this feel like a little bit of a different type of storytelling for you? Because so much is left to their interpretation and imagination.

Well, it goes back to what I was, where I was at when I did these pieces. I was dreaming at that point of all the things I might be able to do. And so when you didn't have the control or the opportunity to be leading a project or designing for real, you would design in your mind. And the way to present that was in these various pieces. The things that I loved about Disney, I was able to put them into artworks like this piece. And the films that I'd love that Disney had brought to life, like Mary Poppins, I was able to do that. So it was a way of getting the same, I think, excitement going out of not being able to actually produce. I didn't even ever dream.

So we're here at Festival of the Arts, where you have two of your pieces of art that you created years ago.

Years ago, yeah.

But we can't deny the fact that we are also surrounded by figment. Again, sort of going back to this idea of imagination. When you come to this festival and you see so many different, not just guests and fans still loving this creation, but so many artists bring in their own interpretation of it. How does that make you feel?

Yeah, it's hard to believe. It was a fortuitous circumstance. We created the two characters originally for the ride Dreamfinder, who's not with us anymore in the ride. But figment came very difficultly. We had a dragon idea, and he was green and Kodak green because they were orange and yellow. They were the sponsor at the time, so we had problems with his color. But the toughest thing was, who is he? What is he called? And I was watching a Magnum PI Episode, and Magnum had hidden a goat in the garden. And the old butler was mad, and he said, oh, oh, Higgins, it's just a figment of your imagination. And the butler goes, figments don't eat grass. And I thought, well, what do they eat? And what are they? And all of a sudden, I Realized there's a word that everyone that speaks English knows. So it's got high value, and nobody's used it for anything. Nobody knows what it looks like. It defines the undefinable. And I said, that's what Figment is, you know? And so the next day, I could hardly wait to come in. I grabbed the dragon model and I said, meet Figment, you know, and everyone. It is instantaneous that everyone felt that name just was absolutely perfect, you know? And now if you open your. Do a Google search and search images, every single one is that dragon, you know, and it's a word that's been around for 500 years. So it's crazy. It was so right. It solved a blank space. You know how I often think the best blank space that's ever been filled is Steve Jobs deciding we all need phones. And we didn't know that, but here is a word that people use it all the time. Oh, it's a figma. But nobody knows what it is. And so to fill that space with this little creature, it was a natural thing that I think it's been so.

Successful because it transcends the attraction, transcends the. It's part of sort of the zeitgeist.

I would say, what Mickey is for Magic Kingdom. I'd say that Figment is for Epcot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think for. I think he represents so much. I think you gave both kids and adults permission to imagine and dream again, too.

Yeah. And our first show that lasted until, like, 20 some years ago, was really about everyone finding that thing that we all share, and it's what makes everything, whether it's energy or transportation or communications or the land and the seas, everything that humans do to transform, that is through the imagination. So it was the most critical of all the. And yet the most amorphous and undefined and, you know. So I'm not saying that the first.

One is still my favorite, but the first one is.

It will, I'll tell you that.

But here at the festival, you have two pieces on display that you created not for the festival, but really sort of for yourself.

Yeah.

Years ago. Let's start with the Tyrolean fantasy. Give us a little bit of a background as to how this came to be. And I know a lot of inspiration came from your mentor, Claude.

Yeah, it was Claude Coast. But more importantly, just I think Disney in general, I didn't know who did what Walt was pretty good about. Everything was done by Walt Disney. And so when I got to imagineering, I was working with Claude and I. You know, it's easy to look people up. And I said, my gosh, this guy did everything in Pinocchio. The beautiful backgrounds in Pinocchio. And he was working on one of the first shows down here, the Mickey Mouse Revue. And he was doing what are. Now we call them projection mapping, but we were doing it back in 1970, and he was doing these beautiful backgrounds for Cinderella and Snow White that were projected on the scenes behind the figures. And it's now what everybody on Broadway does it, and we do it on the castle and everything. Back then, you know, he was inventing something. And I said, gee, I'd love to work with you. I'm looking at that Cinderella background and this Snow White. And I said, would you. I always admired your work in Pinocchio. Would you? He goes, well, are you ready to do a lot of effort? Because it's not easy. And I said, yeah, I've got to test myself and prove whether I could do that or not. It's something I've got to get out of my system. So we worked on it, and I bring it in, and he'd tell me what was right, what was wrong. And it probably took a little over months, you know, to do it. And I've never done anything like that again because it's hard. It's too hard. But I knew what it took, and I was able to do it. And so you could check off one more thing, but I hung it over my desk, and people would walk by and they go, did you do that? You know, so it's kind of an advertisement. Hey, look at me. I could do this kind of work if you. If you'd hire me to do it. And finally, someone must have looked at it and said, you know, we've got to rebuild Disneyland's Fantasyland. And what about that guy in the back that did that painting? That would be really a good direction to go. So all of a sudden, I found myself right after we finished Figment, Journey Into Imagination. Actually, we're still involved in it. And so I was finishing Figment, and then we're starting Journey Into Imagination at the same. Or we were starting Fantasyland at Disneyland at the same time. And so I was off and running. So that was sort of, I think, very important to me in terms of saying, hey, I'm a new kid on the block. I can do this. Give me a job where I can.

And you're willing to take on the challenge of something as difficult as this.

As you go on as a designer at Disney, there's Many people that are, you know, get into design and coming up with concept, but there's also people that do amazing illustrations. So I've not been able to do many illustrations. I got further and further into design and directing and all that. So you do a really rough little sketch and then give it to someone who's better than me to draw it. I see a lot of people out here at the art fair that can very beautifully and quickly give a perfect figment. It would take me about a half an hour to sketch it and erase it and all of that. So, you know.

And inside, you know, you almost didn't know it at the time, but inside here, you didn't put Easter eggs of something that inspired you. You ended up putting in things that ended up being Easter eggs for the future.

Correct.

Both I had certain. And some of them are funny. There's two or three here. I'll go through a few, you know, over here, you've got the dwarf's cottage over on the end. To me, that was the ultimate charming Disney thing. And then the Disneyland Castle, which I had worked at Disneyland in scooping ice cream, and then all the rides and attractions and so forth. So I. I'm very, you know, passionate about Disneyland. So I put the entry gate to the Fantasyland Castle over here. This is kind of funny because it's the first building by the Peter Pan ride in Disneyland. And I put it over there, kind of. These were all new, but this one was, like one of my favorite buildings. And when the movie Tangled came out, there's a scene with an Easter egg of the same building when Flynn Rider goes off through the. Escaping from the. On the horse, from the prison. He bounds across a gap with a horse and then jumps down into the city and rides right past that building. And I said, and I know it so well because I. It's just one of those quintessential perfect. You go, that building is perfect. You know, So I put that in there. But when you were talking about going into the future, I've always thought the romance and enchantment of a. Of a film, the Disney film in particular, are those castles up on a hill. And unfortunately, with a theme park, you've got to be able to get people in strollers and wheelchairs and everybody in and out at a fairly. You know, it can't be up and arduous. And I said, well, so I brought it back in, because this was years later when we did Disneyland Paris. And I said, all right, this is our park. We get to do it. You Know, it's not, you know, whoever did Walt Disney World. So we're going to put that castle up on a hill. And I got the usual, well, but what about. And I said, well, we're imagineers and we can make it look that way, you know, by digging down. And when you come up the bridge, you're looking way down at the rocks and the water down below and everything. And it does convey that effect. And we put a dragon down in the basement in there. So, yeah, that was very inspirational on starting us on a path for that.

Castle impairment again, not sort of shying away from a challenge, but meeting it head on and creating what, in my opinion, I sure think I'm not alone is the. I think it is the most beautiful of all.

I think it is.

It's sort of.

It was. The challenge, too, is that even Disneyland's castle is derived kind of from Neuschwanstein, which isn't a real castle. It's more of a tourist attraction because it has electricity and air conditioning and all that. It was built in 1880 or something, so it's not back in medieval times. But, you know, we were going now into Paris where there's hundreds of castles everywhere. And the Disney World castle is very similar to some of the places down in the Loire Valley, you know, Chinoso Chambord, and there's a lot of beautiful historic pieces there, so you don't want to compete. So we had to complement. So we. We went back to. Well, I. I started by saying, let's do this. And then Ivan Durl had done, you know, Sleeping Beauty. And Sleeping Beauty is if on a French, Perrault is his last name, who wrote Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. And so it was really in keeping with, we've got to do something in France that. That they feel invested in. So it all kind of came together and it, I think it absolutely complements. You're not going to find anything that we have anywhere else, and we're not trumping on anything that they do. We did get the stained glass artisan who is assigned by Queen Elizabeth to do all the stained glass for Windsor Castle and, and the. And the great cathedrals in. In England. And he came out of retirement to do this and we, you know, they were interviewing him, something they said, you know, what persuaded you? And he said, well, most of what my art entails is kind of frightening people. You know, it's like these horrifying images, you know, repent. And he goes, this is a chance to use the art of stained glass to make people Happy, you know. And so the stained glass work in that castle over there is just spectacular.

It is one of my favorite. I consider it the castle is an attraction in and of itself, not just the dragon. But I want to talk about your other pieces.

Sure.

Because I know you have a lot of people who are waiting to meet you. Tony. I think that there are very few quote, unquote, perfect films. And I think Mary Poppins is on that very, very short list. Since I was a kid, I've loved it. As I grew up, I've. I loved it in a different way. Taking with taking my kids to be able to see it. And Your Steps of St. Paul piece of art. Now, I tried to do the math and correct me if I'm wrong. So you did this in the late 60s, right. Years. But before you started working for Disney, how did it feel creating this spectacular piece from that quintessential moment? And then as time goes on, becoming friends with and working with Richard Sherman.

Oh, yeah, that's almost an unbelievable journey. But before I did that piece, I did an attraction model concept. When I was taking graphic design and a couple of teachers, I had realized that if you were inspired by the subject of what you were doing, you'd do a better job. So they would relax the. What would you say, the requirements, you know, you don't have to do an opera. You can do a ride for Disneyland instead of an opera. And so I would instantly be excited. And so with the steps of St. Paul, that came after I had done this Mary Poppins ride concept while I was scooping ice cream at Disneyland and that I got it in and they looked at it and they said, well, you really need to go to art school, you know, because you got some great ideas and we love your engineering concepts that are shown in this thing. But if you're going to apply to be a designer or something, you're going to have to get a little better. And I hadn't really gone to school, so this piece was done at the very end of my time at Long Beach State with a mentor that I knew till the day she died at 101.

Wow.

And we stayed friends and she was computer literate, you know, doing emails and whatnot, at 101. And so that was fantastic to get the encouragement and the learning from someone who'd worked with some of the great, you know, art directors in Hollywood during her heyday before she went into teaching. So that became part of my portfolio when I got the job. And it kind of showed the growth from where My kind of crude little Mary Poppins ride was. And so now I get hired at Imagineering, and one thing leads to another. All of a sudden we're doing Epcot, we're doing Figment, and I say, he needs a song. That's right. If there was Small World and the Tiki Room, and, you know, that's one in a class. And Mary Poppins, which I had already passed through 10 years of being totally blown away by. And so I went into management, I said, would you be willing to bring in Richard and Robert to Sherman to do the music for this? They go, cash. We haven't used them in a long time. And I said, yeah, I know. And, well, do you think. I said, I don't think that's a skill you lose, you know? So they were thrilled. They came in and I had loved their work. After Disney, they did Charlotte's Web, which I think is right up there musically. The animation isn't. Is Hanna Barbera, but the music is Sherman and. And Irwin Costell, who did Mary Poppins, too. So I've always loved that film. And so, you know, I called them and they were excited. They came in and we had had an attempt at a song that was an okay song. And a lot of people would say, well, it's fine. You've got an okay song, you know, I said, no, no, no, it has to be a home run. So they not only came back with one little spark, but which became the theme for Figment. And they love the word figment because they said it's a playful word. And we can do things like royal purple pigment, and now you've got a figment. You know, those kind of things inspire them, you know. And so they wrote that. Then they wrote Magic Journeys, which was a more lyrical, beautiful ballad for our 3D movie. And then Kodak was so impressive, they said, would you do a piece for us that's more commercial? And it ended up being called Making Memories. And then Disney said, we love that song. Can we put it back on the.

This guy's pretty good.

Yeah. Can we put that marketing song about taking film pictures and put it out in our Epcot music? So I think it was on the original music album for Epcot, Making Memories. So they did three songs for us. And I went on then being very close friends with Richard and Elizabeth, Robert moved over to London, and I did go over there and visit him when he was in his second childhood, with not only Mary Poppins being put on the stage, but Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, which was theirs too. So we saw Chitty with Robert. And on Richard's 85th birthday, he came up to. I had a little cabin, and we surprised him with a birthday party. And over the mantel, I have this painting. And so I'm sitting there as everyone's going, happy birthday to Richard. You know, And I'm looking at the painting and I go, when I did that, if you had ever told me, one, I didn't believe I'd ever have a cabin. And two, that Richard Sherman did that. And that was Walt's favorite music, you know. And he's sitting there and we're giving him a birthday party. How much better than that does it.

Get to know that that was sort of, you know, play it on Fridays for Walt.

And it was never, not part of my life, you know, from the moment it was written, it was whether I could honor it with a ride that I was trying to come up with or paint an homage to. I didn't know then that that was Walt's favorite part. It was my favorite part. So, you know. Amazing.

Yeah.

And now and again, I want to be respectful of your time because you have a longer line than Guardians does for people to come and see you again. You have the opportunity to chat with folks one on one. But they get to take these home and feel things. What do you hope when they bring these pieces of art home that they feel or they take away?

Well, there's a little of both. Two different things on this piece, I think. When I was a kid, I used to lay in my bed and look at the Disneyland map. And I'd think, the next time I go, I'm going to walk down that street and I'm going to go on the pirate ride. I'm going to do this. And I love pieces that aren't defined for you because then you define, like, what if I walk down there and I wonder what's in this building? And I'd love to go to the wishing well and go up and find out what's right around the corner. So I think that you can look at them. And then the way you kind of train the eye is you can't get out of this. You kind of bang around in there and you're sort of. I don't want to say trapped, but it's really easy to get lost in it. And that's sort of like what I wanted, that you imagine about it and you're finding things and wondering about what. Then it can escape into it and can escape into it. So that's a very different thing than the emotional. This is an emotional read. If you've seen the movie, you know exactly what happens and you can almost hear the music from that. So it's evocative of something that's very defined. It's not like all over the map. Is she happy? Is she sad? Is she doing this? It's very emotionally centered on all it takes is one little gift, you know, to change life, you know. And so I think that's what captured Walt with the song. And when he was in a sad mode or whatever, he'd call Richard and say, come on, I need a little bit of boosting up, up here. And they would play that song. And so I wanted to try and capture what you got in music with a piece of art.

Well, we were just talking about Disneyland, handcrafted and seeing footage. Thank you for doing the same thing for taking these out of your archives and sharing with us and allowing us to bring it home. Tony Baxter, Absolutely legend. Thank you so much.

Really appreciate it.

Okay, great.

I got my start in this journey by writing my first Walt Disney World trivia book back in 2003. I had a second one come out a couple of years later and I still love sharing the secrets, history and fun facts to help you enhance your enjoyment and appreciation of the Disney parks. Which is also why I continue to have and love doing a Walt Disney World or Disney related trivia Question of the Week because I not only want to share some fun information that might make your or somebody else's trip a little bit better, but I also want to give you a chance to enter the weekly trivia contest for a chance to win a prize package. This week's trivia contest is once again brought to you by you. And what I mean by that is by joining the WDW Radio Nation, you not only help support the podcast and the live shows and events, but you really become part of what makes it all possible. And for as little as $1 per month, you unlock exclusive rewards and perks like monthly scavenger hunts, group video calls, a private community, surprise care packages, and much more. More importantly, your support helps power our Dream Team project, which has, since I started back in 2003, raised more than $550,000 to grant make a wish trips to children with life threatening illnesses so that they can come and enjoy some of the magic that we all do as well. Come be part of something bigger, be part of the magic and learn more and join the nation by going to www.comsupport I appreciate your love, support, friendship and help I love being able to give back to you each and every month. And I want to thank some new and longtime members, including Sarah Wynn, David Hanson, Elena Rodriguez, and Justin Walsh. I sincerely appreciate each and every one of you. I look forward to hopefully meeting you virtually on an upcoming nation call or next time you visit the parks. But before we get to this week's trivia question, let's go back, review last week's and select our winner. So on last week's Disney in or out, we talked about the Tomorrowland Speedway, its potential or possible future. And your question was to tell me what was the original name of the Tomorrowland Speedway when Magic kingdom opened in 1971? First, thanks to you and all of you, any of you who entered got this one correct and know that the answer was the Grand Prix Raceway. Now, if we take a trip on the wayback machine to 1971, this attraction not only sort of reflected the auto racing enthusiasm that was very popular of that time, and it was sponsored by Goodyear. And instead of being themed around futuristic transportation, was really themed around real world racing, which was sort of an odd fit for Tomorrowland. But fast forward a number of years, decades. It was renamed the Tomorrowland Speedway in 1994 as part of a broader effort to sort of align it a little bit more closely with Tomorrowland's identity. And you can see that in some of the signage, especially in the queue. And other than shortening the track a little bit to make room for Mickey's Toontown Fair, the attraction and experience really pretty much has remained largely unchained. And here's a little extra bonus trivia fact. This was only one of two attractions in Tomorrowland that were operational on opening day. You know what the other one was, right? It was the Skyway to and from Fantasyland. Anyway, I took all the correct entries. I know I'm a Disney trivia nerd. I took all the correct entries, randomly selected one. Last week you were playing for a WWE keychain, stickers, a pin, and a brand new embroidered patch. And last week's winner randomly selected is Rob Moore. So, Rob, congratulations. Your prize package is on the way already. And if you played last week and didn't win, that's okay, because here's your next chance to enter in this week's not Walt Disney World, but Disneyland trivia question. So, of course, because I had the incredible opportunity and privilege to have Tony Baxter back on the show this week, of course this week's trivia question has to be about him. More importantly, one of his concepts Your question this week is to tell me what is the name of the Tony Baxter concept for a massive themed land expansion for Disneyland that was going to take inspiration from Jules Verne and H.G. wells stories and be located in between Fantasyland and Frontierland. Think where Galaxy's Edge sits now. Now, because my travel schedule in February is a little or a lot crazy, I'm going to give you an extra week to answer this week's trivia question. So you have until Sunday, February 8th at 11:59pm Eastern to go to www.radio.com. click on this week's podcast again. You're going to play for the keychain, the stickers, the pin, a brand new patch and I'm also going to throw in a mystery prize and I'll explain a little bit more about my travel schedule and where I'm going to be sharing a lot of content from over the next few weeks at the end of the show. So good luck and have fun. That is going to do it for this week's show. Thanks to Disney legend and all around nice guy Tony Baxter and Michael Young from Disney Fine Arts for joining me this week. More importantly, thanks to you because none of that would have happened without your love and support and friendship. And for that I am incredibly grateful as well as for your time taking the time to tune in each and every week for chatting with me on social and being part of the community over in the WW radio clubhouse at www.com clubhouse where I'd love to hear your thoughts about my conversation with Tony and Michael. Maybe even what is your favorite Tony Baxter attraction. And I mentioned during the trivia contest that the next few weeks are going to be a little wonderfully hectic. Again, thanks to you. We have our WW Radio cruise on the Disney Destiny February 9th through the 14th. I'm absolutely going to try my best to go live on Wednesday at 7:30pm Eastern as normal on both Facebook and YouTube. And I plan on sharing a lot of content from that cruise primarily on my Instagram stories and reels@instagram.com LuAngelo who knows, I might even do an Instagram Live or two while I am there and I cannot wait for this cruise. We have a great group coming. I think we have like 170 people from the WW community coming on the Disney Destiny and one of the things that I always do on our group cruises in addition to group meals and experiencing a lot of things both on board and on Lookout key together is I always do a WW Group exclusive SCAVENGER hunt and because I've only spent a couple of days on the Disney Destiny when I was on the Media Preview a couple of months ago, I'm going with Becky Menken from Mouse Fan Travel on the Destiny at the end of this week so I can work on that scavenger hunt and do some pre group planning. So stay tuned as well next week as I'll try and be live and sharing content from the Disney Destiny. And then after we come back from the Disney Destiny Group Cruise, I'm going to be traveling again twice more throughout February. Really excited to share. I'll leave a little bit of suspense where I am going to be and where I'm going to be sharing content with you from. You are definitely going to want to tune in. Stay tuned to the podcast as well as social for updates. And once again please know how grateful I am to and for you. None of this happens without you and your support and friendship. So I hope that you enjoyed this week's show. I hope that you found some magic and maybe even a little inspiration from it. If you did, please do me a favor. Share the show and tell a friend. Please help spread the word. And if there's any way that I could ever help you, please let me know. Go to Lou Mongello.com where I try and sort of return the favor and help you turn what you love and to what you do. I have a free course and a $7 course to help get you started. My Momentum Weekend Workshop is coming up again this October in Walt Disney World October 15th through the 18th. It's now been expanded to four days, but still one room and 50 people in a supportive, collaborative, friendly workshop where you're not just going to learn from presenters and other people in the room, but you're going to do the work in the room. You're going to get a 200 plus page workbook so that you can keep your momentum going even after the event is over. So that you leave not just with inspiration and education but but accountability and community as well. Again, to learn more, visit lou mangello.com momentum and if you're looking for a speaker for your conference or event, I speak about leveraging lessons from the Disney Parks or leadership lessons from Walt Disney, as well as a number of other custom topics. And you can learn more by visiting loomongello.com click on the speaking tab there. Please connect and more importantly, chat with me on social. I am on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. Thank you again for listening. Thank you for being part of the WDW Radio community and family and you thank. And now maybe even more than ever, remember to be kind to one another, to choose the good, be the good, set an example for others and have an amazing day and even better tomorrow. So until next time, I love and appreciate you. See ya.