Welcome to all things Health and Abundance podcast. This is a podcast where we discuss different health and abundance related issues and come with real tips and advice. 2s As some of you might know, I have a son who is soon turning to. While pregnant. I read everything there was to read about taking care of myself, my son and everything that would come after giving birth, including postpartum depression, of course, and I was sure I was going to give birth naturally, exclusively breastfeed my son, teach him how to sleep in his own bed from day one, and so on. But truth of the matter is that nothing went as planned. I had an emergency C-section. I had to partially breastfeed while supplementing with formula, and my baby slept exclusively on my chest the first two months of his life and actually in my bed the first year. So nothing really went according to plan. And of course, the part of my mental health didn't either. I lost myself, my identity, my beliefs. I really lost myself and because of the stigma connected to postpartum depression. I have for the longest time denied it, even to myself. I denied it. I had postpartum depression, and that is why I am so happy to bring this subject today. And today with me is Tonje Youman. Tonje is a dedicated wife and loving mother who transitioned from being a physical therapist to becoming an influential writer. Her passion for helping others find peace with their past and discover their true passion in the present moment has been the driving force behind her transition. Drawing from her experience as a caregiver and her own personal growth. She is committed to inspire individuals to overcome their past struggles. And embrace a fulfilling, authentic life. Welcome, Tanya. I'm really happy to have you here with us today discussing such an important topic as postpartum depression.

Tonje 2:42

Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

Ada 2:45

Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your journey and your work?

Tonje 2:49

Uh, yes. Um, well, first, like, I'm really excited to be here. And I assure that, like, most people aren't really excited to talk about postpartum depression, but I know how good life can feel on the other side of it. But, yeah, my name is Tanya. I am a personal growth advocate. I'm a writer. Why? I'm a mom. And honestly, like, I feel like I've lived probably, like, five different lifetimes already in this life. 1s Uh, and as we talked about before, I started recording, like I was a solo parent for a year and a half before I met my partner and husband. And with regards to work, like, I've always been very passionate about helping people. And that's what led me to taking my degree in physical therapy. But after ten years of like, more intentional self-development, I am now on a path of wanting to help people on a more deeper level so they can transcend their past beliefs and just live a more fulfilling life.

Ada 4:05

Oh. That's beautiful. Oh, yeah. It's really beautiful. I read one of your posts, and this is why we're here. Or actually, I've checked many of your posts, but one post about postpartum depression. Yeah. And you were so open about that. And when I invited you to talk about this, you said that you'd be happy to do that also because there is some stigma connected to it.

Tonje 4:26

Yeah.

Ada 4:28

Would you be open to talk a little bit about your story related to that and the stigma around that?

Tonje 4:33

Yeah, I think like I wasn't aware of it either, because for from my perspective, like I'm seeing it bubbles in social media, like I've known that people have been talking more open about mental health, especially in previous years, but I was not aware of like the shame and stigma that came with with feeling like, like I can't really talk about what I'm experiencing right now and for me, like. Like there was a lot of things happening, both like pre, uh, during and after birth. That was sort of like situational factors that I sort of tried to, um. 1s To resonate. Why? I was feeling lower in my energy like no wonder I'm tired. Like my son was this mature so I needed to breastfeed every hour around the clock. He also he was born three weeks early. He had milk protein allergy. He was crying a lot. He also had to wear one of those like replacement pillows. And there was just a lot of things happening. And and when it sort of got worse and I got nerve entrapment in both my arms after breastfeeding and carrying him for hours and hours, I was just like, okay, like you're feeling this way because this happened and just focus on what you're grateful for. And like this too shall pass. It came like my daily mantra. But what the, the shame was sort of was that like, I knew that I chose to become a mom. So not feeling as connected with my son and feeling like I wouldn't rather want to be alone than spending anything with my son. It's just I didn't feel like there was a space and a place to talk about that and to just be honest, like, hey, like, I'm really I'm not doing too well right now. And like, I'm desperately craving to to feel like myself, like I feel lost. And I think a lot of people experience that. And I just I wish that. But we could have more empathy with each other, so there would be more space to actually just talk about that and so we can help each other.

Ada 7:20

I get it. I wasn't aware that I had actually postpartum depression. Yeah, because I can relate to a lot of things you are sharing. And of course I wouldn't want to share that. I need some that I feel I feel like I've lost myself and I need to be on my own as well. I wouldn't share that with anyone because there is shame. That is what shame is all about.

Tonje 8: 02

Yeah, I think it's very common. And I just want to say like like postpartum depression. I think the numbers are actually as high as like 10 to 20% in a world business. But the symptoms, they are like sadness, feeling lethargy, feeling apathy or like indifference, feeling constantly tired. And I think that's something like almost, almost get after giving birth and and that they can like relate to those. But I think what distinguishes it from actually being postpartum depression is like when you have those symptoms prolonged for several weeks and you don't have the same positive feelings around the same things that you used to bring you joy. 1s Yeah. So yeah, I think a lot of people like when they start reading the symptoms, like I feel like, like most people like there's a lot of, like wormholes dropping, like, right after giving birth. Like, I usually told about this in a hospital, like, if you experience, like, you just want to cry for no reason. Like, it's most like your hormones, like we're told that this is normal and it is to some extent, but it's not normal to go around for 6 to 8 weeks feeling like you just want to cry. You don't feel like you have a purpose with life anymore. Like that's not normal. And I just, I wish more people would talk about that.

Ada 9:10

What are the symptoms?

Tonje 9:15

Um, so like I said, it's usually like an increased feeling of like, sadness, feeling apathy or feeling like indifferent about life. Feeling sore, like numb and constantly tired, lacking energy. Like if you used to have a lot of joy from from exercising or painting or singing like those things usually don't bring you as much joy anymore. And like, I know, for me, like I really tried to like, focus on all the things that I could do and everything I had to be grateful for. Like, I can, I can still walk, I can still talk, I can still move my body. I can still hold my son. Like I tried to focus on all the things that I could do. But at the end of the day, like, I, I just, I felt numb and I felt very disconnected from both myself and everyone around me.

So it's like you went through a gratefulness practice in order to go back to yourself. Like, I'm happy that I can move my body. You were finding small things to be grateful for.

Yes. And I feel like gratitude is sort of like what kept me alive. Um. But it wasn't. It wasn't. It saved me. But it was what I felt like healed me. Full transparency for me. Like, the turning point was actually me having a panic attack one year after my son was born. 1s You know, I had a panic attack. I could not read. I thought my heart was going to stop and then I was totally okay with that. I was like, my son is at the kindergarten. If I die now, it's completely fine. 1s And that's when I realized I don't want to be that kind of person. I don't want to be that kind of mom, like I. Something needs to change. And right now, like I'm meditating daily, I'm practicing gratitude. I'm doing I feel like I'm doing everything I can. But I still I don't feel like I have the lust for life that I used to have. Yeah, because before I gave birth to my son, like I was in love with life. Like I spent my entire pregnancy alone. So I was preparing more, like, okay, I'm going to be alone. It's going to be probably a lot of crying. It's going to be probably a lack of sleep. And I tried to like, mentally prepare myself for that. But I was not prepared of, like, feeling this. A feeling of I don't care anymore. And so when I had that panic attack and I just want to say, like, I was very fortunate, I have such an amazing general practitioner, my doctor, because I enrolled her and I actually had a crisis team come home to me just a couple of days later. So I, I was very fortunate in that sense. But then I had already gone a year and that was sort of like the thing like you've already gone on year and we can't risk you actually getting into the state of mind that you don't want to live anymore and do something about it. So I seeked help and I. And is that something I really want to encourage people I see coming? Like at the end of the day, like you are responsible for your mental, emotional, and physical health. But there are people that can help you to heal whatever you need to heal.

How can one seek help realistically speaking?

Talk with your doctor and if you don't like, seek support where you feel you can have support. If you have a partner like I would highly encourage anyone. Like I didn't have a partner during my pregnancy so I could not do them. But for anyone listening that actually have a partner, like I would honestly make a plan for pause, plan it out before the baby comes. Okay, so like, can we just say right now that one time a week or two times a week, you will take the baby so I can do this. Try to like, plan it out so you don't feel guilty for asking for help. Or if you have a friend that has a kid with similar age like talk with her or sister. Talk with them like, hey, can I babysit your kid? And you can babysit mine? So we can sort of like trade. Try to compare, uh, yourself to have some time to yourself. And if you feel like you are going down a very dark path, like I would highly, highly encourage. Seeking professional help. 1s Because sometimes it's. 1s I don't want to say just, but sometimes it's just about a mindset show and some professionals can help you with that. For me at least, like prioritizing myself, having the time because like, I realized that my cup was like constantly empty, like I was heavily deprived. I think I had my first night of almost five hours of sleep, eight months after my son was. Yeah. And for eight months it was like, okay, like I'm sleeping an hour a night. I feel like I'm about to lose it. And when I tried talking with my family, I just I know that they also have a lot on their plate. So I didn't want to like, like, guilt trip them to babysit my kid. But it just it came to the point where I'm like, I am willing to do anything. To not remind us anymore. And like, I know some people would probably think of me as crazy, but I actually contacted what's it equivalent to child social services in Norway? Like, you know, the people that can actually take your kids away? Yeah, I contacted them like, hey, I, I am desperate right now. I feel like I'm not managing life. And I want to know that I am a good enough mom for my son. So I actually had people come home to me and like, supervise me, seeing how I did with my with my child, because I just want to make sure like that he has everything he needs, not only physically in terms of like clothes and food, but also like mentally and emotionally and wow. Yeah. And that's not something like I would encourage people to do. But that was like my greatest fear. Like, what if someone takes my son away? So I needed to like, yeah, face that fear. Um, and they came home to me and honestly, like. 1s Everything they said they would. They were so helpful. And what that also shifted in me was realizing that, like, there's a reason why, you know, like when you go on airplanes, they always say, put your own mask on first before helping others. They always say that. Why? Because you cannot help others unless you help yourself first. Like you're gonna die. That is so true. Yeah, that's so true. And if you die, like, you can't help anyone else. And that's what I. What I realized, and it's so simple, but it's not easy. And I say that because I feel like especially in Norway, there's like this self sacrificing culture where putting other first is valued more and if you put yourself first is like deemed as selfish. And I think there's always a lot of shame around that. And I felt that because I didn't want to be selfish, like I wanted to put my son first. And as a parent, like, you got to do that with your kids because they're so dependent on you. But I think just taking some time for yourself can be like the lifesaver.

And then you're going to be a better parent.

100%, 100% to that.

Yes. I think I was reading this book scream free parenting from I can come on his name, but I will for sure find it and it will be in the note. Yeah, and that's what it says. It says we say that we are raising kids, but we are actually raising the adults because we are growing while we are raising the kid. And you can't do that unless you take care of yourself 100%.

And like I, I love that concept. Like, I really do my best to not raise my voice at my son. I do believe in gentle parenting, but I have noticed, like the few times where I have raised my voice, it's because my cup is so empty, like I have nothing to give. It's a day where I didn't get my meditation, and it's a day where I didn't get my walk or my yoga or something just for me. And those are the days where I'm less patient with everyone else, including my son.

U2

I hear you, I hear you because I'm very much about that. I mean, scream free or anything, violence free parenting. But thank you for saying it, that those that it has happened to you, that you have raised your voice because. Yeah, it has happened to me too. And actually, the book here says that 98% of the parents admit that they have, at least at some point in their life, raised their voice to their kid and the other 2%. is lying about it

did not pay the penny for admitting that. But yeah, yeah, that's so true.

It's exactly the same for me. I'm also a single mom, and if I don't take care of myself, I see. I feel that I don't have the patience for Yeah, handling a toddler, basically.

And even, you know, being patient with a toddler. Yes. And that requires a lot like that's that's a work in itself and that's like that's why like, I no longer feel guilty for the times that I've asked someone to babysit my son, because I know in the core of my heart that it was either for my physical, mental, or emotional health like I've personally never asked for babysitting to go out drinking because I don't find value in that. I don't drink alcohol, but honestly, to whoever is listening, like if going out with friends, taking yourself to the movies, or to sit three hours by yourself to meditate like you know what you need to just like fill up your own cup into like you so you can feel like your own person again. And like nobody is a mind reader. Nobody is going to know exactly what's going on in your mind unless you communicate this. So it's sort of like it's your responsibility to know what you need to fill up in your own cup and then ask for that help. 1s So yeah. And with that said, like, I just want to say that I am so grateful for my family, especially my parents, because after talking with the child's social services, like I realized I either like social services, need to help my kid and me or my family like I someone you know, please. Uh, so my parents have been there and my brother and sister in law and like for the times that my son has stayed with them, like I could really do something for myself and honestly, like, I don't even know if I would be married today if it wasn't for them supporting me with both babysitting. Yeah. How did you manage that? I know that you have recently gotten married, right? Yes, it's it's inspires me so much. But how how did you find the time for that? Honestly, it's prioritizing. Like, again, like, I, I would not be able to do that. Like, like my husband is from the States and I'm from Norway. Like, we had a long distance relationship. And like, looking back, it's pure magic that I could even happen. And that's because I had people around me that could support me with babysitting. By now we bridge the gap. And for anyone who is a school parent. I'd also like. If you want a partner like you have the chance to choose being the most amazing partner. I can also be a dad or a mom to your kid as well. And just having that, like I did not know the luxury of having a partner until I had one. Oh I understand.

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I can already hear it in my mind. Parents saying, yeah, I hear you, but I don't have time for that. It's so much stuff to do work, cleaning, shopping for food and everything around it. Being with a kid. When should I fill up my cup?

I honestly would encourage people to to write down what they do in the day. I mean, like, what are you doing? I owe 24 hours. How many times? How many hours are you prioritizing for sleep? If you find out that you have. 1s That you're being on your phone for four hours a day. Then there's time there. But also like, there's some people that like, I remember for myself, like I was either constantly breastfeeding or I was washing his clothes or making food or doing something all the time. And that's why I needed to ask others, hey, can you babysit him for two hours so I can go and do something just for me? And like seeking thy help. Especially like if you don't have friends and family, that can be challenging. But I know in especially in Norway where I lived at that time. 1s There are like there are different resources that you can connect with that can help you with babysitting. So I would just really encourage people to find the resources to carve out some time, because even if it's even if it's just like one hour a week that you have to yourself where you can do something, that this sparks joy in my heart. It's going to be worth it.

But if you are at the point where actually nothing gives you joy anymore, nothing of whatever give you happiness before, nothing of that works anymore. How can people find better joy from your experience?

U1

Well, I think it's I think it's different for everyone. Like, I know, for me, it was like being alone and having some space to just breathe because I felt like I was drowning. But I do, like I said earlier, like, if you feel like you're going into a very depressive state, like I would talk with some professionals about that. But I think if, if we could sit still and listen to our own heart, just start writing down. Ask yourself, what was the joy? Yeah. And and if you don't know that, then start trying new things. Try painting. And if that doesn't bring you joy, try writing poems. If that doesn't bring you joy. Try a new workout class. Like try different things. And it makes sort of like a game out of it. Okay, what can I try to do for joy today? And when you find those things like I would highly encourage almost creating like a grocery list. This brings me joy. I know this because then just like if you feel like your energy is getting at a low point, look at that list. Like what could I do? And even like listening to music like find like some songs that you could just like dance to move around and just like be in your own energy. Because at the end of the day, like, the only person that can make you happy is you. Not your child, not your partner. There's nobody in the world that can make you happy. So if you feel like you have a hole in your heart and that hole like you are the only person that can fill that hole.

So true. How can we go about talking more about that, about postpartum depression?

I think it is important when we're talking about it to and this is way easier said than done. But do your best to not go into like this victim mode, that I'm in pain. I need other people to to fix this for me. Because when you do that, you're giving all your power away to others. Just know that like you survived pregnancy, you survived birth and you will get through this. There's no doubt. And sometimes we need help. But I feel like this society is so. Like we value independence so much that I feel like a lot of us don't have a healthy interdependence. And interdependence is the mix between independence and dependence. It's the healthy, balanced, like we are Social Security. Wow creatures. Wow, that was a challenging one. And we're mixtures for a reason. So and if you if you feel like you. You don't have friends or family that you can talk with. Like I would highly encourage you to to find a group of other moms and find people that have the same interest to you and create that kind of relationship where you feel safe to share what's on your mind and also hold that space for others because we're all in this together.

I actually did that. I post it on a couple of Facebook groups looking for single moms with artists more or less my in my kids age to hang out with. I did meet a couple of girls, and I am a couple of women, and I'm still friends with one of them.

That's awesome. And I really want to commend you for that because that takes a lot of courage. It's it was so easy to to look on social media and see all the people that have all these friends and huge social networks and feel so alone. If you don't feel like you have that. But I feel like always like if you feel jealousy towards something, it's because you know that you can have it. That's my belief.

I'm gonna implement it is my belief as well.

So imagine that you see people. Oh, she has a lot of friends. That's because you have access to that too. But maybe you didn't reach that point in your life. So what are the changes that you can make within yourself to to attract that kind of life? And like your your podcast is called about like health and abundance. And there's an abundance of people that want to spend time with you. You just got to be open to find them. And I think that's one of the keys is being open. And it's not about like, I'm going through postpartum depression and it's so hard to be me, and I wish someone would just feel sorry for me. It's not about that. It's about, you know what? Right now. Life. Life doesn't feel great. I know, I'll figure this out. Um, but these are the things that I need to do for myself right now. Because you are the only one that can save you.

Does every woman suffer from postpartum depression at some level?

Uh, no, I don't think they do. I think it's postpartum depression was only linked to hormones. And like, because we have this huge drop of estrogen and progesterone right after birth, like, if it was solely linked to hormones, I think all women would have postpartum depression. But like I, I know women that right after giving birth a couple of months, they want another kid and they're very content with their own situation. So wow, a lot of women that have gone through postpartum depression. And I think if I did know women before having my cell. 1s Maybe I would not have gone a year before I seek help.

Yeah. So it's about the awareness?

Yes. Um, so no, I don't I don't think, but I do think that we all can experience changes in hormones. And I think we have that, most of us at least, like during pregnancy as well, that suddenly we want to cry about something we would not cry about. And just like feeling this overwhelm of emotions, meaning a lot of moms can relate to that. I think a lot of moms can relate to feeling tired and exhausted and maybe not seen and heard. Um, but at the end of the day, like like, what can you do for your own health? And I also do want to add because when I thought like, okay, this like I'm not feeling like myself, I, I don't have this lust for life. What can I do? I started learning more about postpartum depression. And I do know that there are some people that are predisposed for having it. Like if you suffer from mental health challenges prior to if you had a very traumatic birth, or even like if you're pre-birth, expectations don't match your post-birth reality. Wow. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. And like then often we're told, like, you're so lucky that you can have the kids of your own. And I remember thinking back because I was diagnosed with the polycystic ovarian syndrome some years before having my son. And I remember, like, thinking, like how lucky women are, I can give birth, and I wasn't. 1s I wasn't angry, but like, again, like when I felt jealousy towards other women being able to have kids, like, that's when I noticed it's something that I want to. And I know that it's something I can achieve because if I could not achieve it, I would not have this feeling around it. Um. Understand? 1s Well, I think I kind of take all the three points you mentioned with difficult birth and everything that can lead to postpartum depression.

Wow. It's, uh. It's amazing. But it's not just about the hormones. So it's about the situation. Before being pregnant, the situation during pregnancy and giving birth. Is there any other factors which can contribute to this?

Well, I know for for my case, like I thought that I was sort of like prepared if this happened. Like I wouldn't be open about this because I have gone through depression before and I talked with my doctor about that, so I knew there was a chance. But again, like with everything happening, like there was a lot of things happening. Yes, like like during and after birth. And I just kept like wanting to. These are like, just look at the site and the things that had happened instead of how I was actually feeling. I get so natural for me to feel exhausted when I'm sleeping an hour or night. Like that's natural. So yeah, I just. If you if you have been dealing with mental health challenges like it, doesn't mean that you will have postpartum depression, but there's an increased risk. So if you have been dealing with that, like I would encourage you to. Just for white cleaning. What if this happens? Like, what can I do for myself? Like, what are some of the things that I find joy in now that maybe helped me out of depression earlier? And how can I actually implement them then when the kid comes?

Nice. Did you use any substances like peels or anything to get out of it to get out of this situation?

Uh, no, I did not, uh, I'm not I'm not against substances. But for me, I think I had already gone a year. And like, if I did not have my gratitude practice and my meditation practice. Maybe I would have. Um, but I was asked by my doctor if I wanted to. To try. Um, antidepressants. Um. Uh, but for me, I felt like. Like I'm already seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and I sort of. I know what I need to do to get there. And what I need to do is just get some of my solitude back. But I think for the people that don't even see the light of the tunnel, I do think there can be some benefit to temporary medication.

But the first step is talking about that and seeking help. What would you say to someone that is shy to do that, or is will make you bestir that the the child social services can take away the teeth if they speak up about this, or maybe that they will be seen as weak. You know what I mean?

Okay. And and I know, um, I felt that way too. It's it can be challenging to have hope for the future when everything feels dark. And I would not recommend, like everyone contacting banana, the now social service, because I know there's a lot of people that don't have good experience with them and that aren't as quote unquote lucky as I was at that point, but I would encourage people to look for opportunities rather than obstacles. And if you're shy, like there's always someone you can reach out to. Like, even if you reach out to me on Instagram like there's someone I can put you in contact with. Yeah. And I think, like, everything we go through, we can grow through. And I, I'm the kind of person that I believe that everything happens for a reason. And if you feel that this right now, just know that you will get stronger. You will get through this and asking for help like it's it's not a sign of weakness. It's actually the opposite. It's a it's a sign of strength because you are choosing to fight for your life rather than giving up. Um, asking for help is never a sign of weakness. And I just. I wish that was something we were raised with as a kid. Yeah. Because, yes, being being your own sovereign, independent person is so important. But you're not meant to live on a desert island by yourself and survive by yourself. Like if you were meant to do that, you thought you would be born there. And you're not like we are meant to. To be in a community. And that's why I'm such a huge advocate for for personal growth and creating communities where we can have these open conversations, because it's not about putting blame on other people. It's about taking responsibility for your own life in your mental, physical and emotional health and having people help you with that. As strength. As pure strength.

Wow, this was beautiful. Very inspiring. You probably answered all related to this, but, um, is there any last messages?

Well, I, I would encourage people, um, to again, like, reach out to someone even if it's to me, just know that like this too shall pass. Like nothing lasts forever. And. 1s It's okay to not be okay, and we will get through this and seek the people that like look for. For postpartum depression groups, look for mom groups like seek the people that. Have gone through the same thing as you that can understand, because honestly, I feel like one thing that we're lacking in the world right now is more empathy and compassion. Man, I just would highly encourage people to also have compassion with themselves. Like, imagine it being your sister, your best friend, or your daughter going through the same thing you're going through and how you would have compassion for them. But treat yourself like you want others to treat you.

Thank you for that reminder. I think I needed to hear that as well right now.

How can people find you and what can you help them with? Uh, well, right now I think there's been a lot of things going on with just like my, my own physical health. So me and my husband, um, we're we're creating a lot of, um. Personal development projects. Um, but right now we're working on more of a sobriety challenge for the upcoming years. So I'm not focused on on pregnancy and pregnant women, but feel free for anyone listening to this to connect with me on Instagram at Tottenham. Send me a message, send me a question, and I will do everything that I can to help. And we will both be posting on our social media about like the upcoming projects and just, yeah, just how we can contribute.

Ada

Amazing. I'm looking forward to that.

Yes, there's a there's a lot of a lot of projects that are happening and we just yeah, we just needed to put some things on ice because I had some, some unforeseen health challenges. And just like I feel like the essence of this whole episode is taking responsibility for your own health, and I can't really advocate for that if I don't do it for myself. So that's what I have done lately. But for anyone listening, feel free to resync.

Amazing. Well done with that. It's very inspiring. Thank you. Thank you so much for for this conversation. Today felt so nice and it was just flowing. So thank you.

I want to say thank you to uh to you as well. I want to say thank you for both inviting me and for creating this podcast like Health and Abundance are some of the like core pillars to a fulfilling life. So I just thank you for showing up. And 1s just so people can can learn everything that they want in life they already have within themselves. And you're continue to that. So thank you.

Thank you for that

Now it's your turn. Let me know what health and abundance subjects you want me to cover in the future. Do that by commenting on the post on Instagram. Thank you for listening and thank you so much to Tonya for being here with us today. If you liked it, please leave a review at Pod chaser.com. Just search for the protest and write it. Review. If you have questions or you want to be a guest on my podcast, please do let me know on Instagram. In the next episode, we'll be talking about conscious penetration. Yes, you heard it right. And remember, you are always treating your health and abundance. What do you choose to create today?