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You're listening to the Master Passive Income Podcast Network.

Welcome to the Master Passive Income Show.

My name is Dustin Heiner, and I'm here to help you get financial independence, afford anything you want in life, and create generational wealth by investing in real estate so you never, ever have to work a job again.

And today, I'm bringing on a fantastic real estate investing expert who has 15 properties all paid off free and clear.

All that cash flow coming in, as well as lots of other investments are going to show us how we can go from fear into fortune and how you can do it as well.

All right, let's start the show.

Welcome to the Master Passive Income Podcast where we talk about investing in real estate with a special focus on making enough money to so you can quit your job and live the dream life.

And now, here is your host, Dustin Heiner.

What's up?

What's up?

Super blessed as always to have you here with me on the show.

Now, this is.

This is the week.

This is the week that the Real Estate Wealth Builders Conference is going on.

So I'm recording this on Monday.

Thursday is when Rubecon is actually going on.

If you haven't got your ticket, you're probably a little too late because you're probably not going to get flights and hotel rooms and all this sort of stuff.

But we still have hotel rooms.

If you can get to St.

Louis and come hang out with us at Rubecon, this is the last Rubecon ever.

And at Rubecon, the Real Estate Wealth Brothers Conference, I'm going to share with you my big grand vision now.

The Wealth Builders membership that I have, all the coaching that I do, I share with them a little bit of what's going to come with Master Passive Income and what Rubecon is, why it's going away, what's coming in the future and all the amazing things that we have in store for you as a real estate investor.

So I'm going to be sharing that and at the same time, I'm going to be encouraging all of you that this is the second best time to invest in real estate.

When was the first best time?

It was 20 years ago.

The next best time is today.

And I am seeing so many great things in the real estate investing market.

In fact, we've all been concerned about interest rates being high.

But I kid you not, interest rates being high are a good thing for us as real estate investors.

I was just brought from Charles Seaman, who is our multifamily coach here at Master Passive Income.

He just came in and said, hey, Dustin, there's a lender, they've got millions of dollars they've lent out.

Well, they've got like a dozen properties that they're going to have to take back on because the borrower, the person who bought the properties, they are not doing well and they're not making their payments.

We are the bank.

We're pretty sure we're going to take back the properties.

And foreclosure.

Would you want to take a stab at putting an offer now before they go into foreclosure?

And I was like, oh, my goodness, it's happening.

I've been telling you guys for at least six months now that there are so many commercial properties are going to be coming to the market.

And, and it's happening now with these commercial properties that are gonna be hitting the market really, really soon.

Prices are gonna come down really, really well for us as real estate investors.

Same thing with residential properties.

Interest rates being high helps us because it prices buyers out of the market.

Those are homeowners.

Well, interest rates are coming down.

In fact, I just locked in on my primary residence, a 15 year fixed at four and a half percent.

I was like, four and a half percent for a 15 year fixed.

This is fantastic.

15 year fixed in 15 years.

This primary residence, which is one of my Airbnb, I moved into it, living into in it as a primary residence.

Well, in about, I don't know, six months to a year, I'm going to buy another house.

Well, since this property is currently my primary residence, you get the best mortgage rates.

I'm refinancing from 8% 30 year to a 4 1/2% 15 year.

My payments are going to be going down like, like 10 bucks.

But in the end, I'm gonna have, in 15 years, this entire property paid off.

And all that cash flow, 3,500 bucks a month, cash flow coming in.

Well, I'm seeing a lot more properties come on the market and people are gonna start hurting because the economy, you look at the stock market, stock market is crashing.

It's going so bad.

And you might see a little dip.

Sorry, A little dip.

You're gonna see an increase.

Cause people are gonna say, hey, buy the dip.

And then you're going to see it come down even worse.

At least that's what it seems like.

And when that happens, be ready to buy real estate.

Not necessarily stocks.

You could buy stocks, but the economy is going to go south and that is the best time for us as real estate investors.

I've been telling you Guys for two or three years and it might be here.

If it's not, you need to continue to get ready, you need to get education, you need to learn how to invest, build your business, start investing, start buying properties.

So when the best time ever gets here and you'll be hearing my podcast.

Cause I'm gonna be telling I just bought this property, I just bought that property.

You already know.

I bought three single family homes in January.

My daughter bought it at 16 year old, bought her first property.

I'm closing or had did close on 375 unit apartment complex in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Their deals are out there and I bring on a fantastic.

He's a really good friend of mine, invests in my deals as well as he came to Roopcon and, and we hit it off.

He's a fantastic guy, great investor, great business owner and he, I wanted to bring him on because he, the way he invests is terrific and he's going to walk you through all of it.

But he's got 15 homes free and clear.

He got a 15 year mortgage on these properties, paid them off and now there's cash flowing.

I don't know how much he's cash flowing, but these are higher end homes that are probably renting for $2,500 a month.

Well, if you got 15 times 15 homes, 10 times $2,500 a month, you could do the math.

That's a lot of money every single month on top of the other investments that he does.

Well, this guy is an expert investor.

You guys remember the income builder roadmap that I showed walked you guys on?

There's the income builder where you're starting out, zeroed in one property.

You want to get to the income scaler where you're scaling your business, then you want to get to become the income investor.

He is an income investor for sure.

And, and he's gonna show us how he did this.

But then also he has helped so many other people with his book that just came out, Fear to Fortune.

He shares his process, his blueprint that you can use to grow your wealth, create income and become financially independent.

And he's just a great guy to chat with.

So I had a fantastic time talking shop with him.

And you're gonna learn a ton from my good friend coming on a great investor, wrote the book From Fear to Fortune.

My friend, Sean Gwaltney.

All right, here we go.

I have Sean Gautney on the show.

Hey Sean, thanks for being on, man.

Hey, it's an honor.

Always good to hang out with You, Dustin.

So we met at my conference, the Real Estate Wealth Builders conference, a year ago, and everything from, you know, connecting on the real estate portion, like, hey, hey, let's talk about real estate.

But then also businesses.

You own businesses as well as.

Now getting into the online, like, you know, helping people.

That's what I was like.

We see eye to eye at so many great things, plus being a Christ follower as well.

Very big, big blessing to have other brothers in Christ working with.

But with everything that you've done, like writing a book and everything that you're moving forward with, what drives you to do something like this?

To write a book to help people, to get stuff out there in the world that other people can consume?

Yeah, you know, that's a great question.

I don't think anybody's ever asked me that way before, but essentially it was.

There's kind of a selfish aspect to it.

You know, whenever you have a conversation with people and they find out that you're in real estate or you.

You have some rental properties or anything else, they're always curious.

And almost everybody is like, you know, I've thought about that, or I'd love to get into real estate someday.

But they rarely ever do.

So you end up in these lengthy conversations trying to encourage them and give them a little bit of insight or pathway to kind of step into that field.

But after so much time, I thought, you know, maybe I ought to just write a book.

You know, that way I can say, hey, here's a book.

Because literally it's.

It's, you know, I'll go to conferences or whatever, and you'll be at a table networking, and you spend some time there.

And there's a lot of newbies who've never bought even one property or maybe bought one or two.

And so the conversation is all stemmed around that topic.

So I just thought, besides being a part of my bucket list, it'd be a great way to share all the challenges, number one, that I had.

Because, you know, when I started, I read over 40 books.

It took me three and a half years before I ever bought my first one.

Obviously, fear was that barrier for me and, you know, taking care of my family and how that all works.

So really just stemmed from two things.

A little bit of selfishness and to be able to make it easier to communicate this to those who I do have those conversations with, but also to try to help people really through the experiences and the walk that I've walked.

So they don't have the pain, number one, but number two, so they have some of the insights that I couldn't find in any of the books that I read.

Be careful, because you're going down my path.

I started just like you, helping people, friends and family members.

And then I thought, my goodness, they have great questions, but they're beginner questions.

And even though they're really, really good, I've answered them so many times, let me write a book and just give it out to people.

And that's where it started.

Then podcast, YouTube channel courses, coaching conferences, building up, which is great.

I'm really, really blessed now because my goal is to help a million people to invest in real estate.

And anybody else that I can help is just one more person on that goal.

Because as I've gone through in life, I found the more people that I serve, the more money that I make, the more money they make, the better their life gets, the better my life gets.

And so I just figure out, how can I serve more and more people?

So I just say that in, you know, tongue in cheek, saying, you're going to be on a great ride.

You know, if you keep going down this path, you just start helping more and more people.

And then you start.

And this is how I started feeling.

Started feeling much more fulfilled in life, like I'm helping other people.

You know, honestly, I'm not driven by money.

Not a lot of people are driven.

Some people are.

But money is not the end itself.

Right.

It's just a means to an end to hopefully have a better life and be able to take care of your family.

And so when I get fulfilled, it's when I help people because I'm like, man, I just got to help somebody.

So you've written this book because you have this blueprint that you walk through as you're investing.

You also have a really strong business that runs on its own as well, outside of real estate investing.

But how did you get into.

You said three years or, you know, reading books and not getting into it.

How did you get into the real estate investing?

Yeah, well, that was.

It's a funny story because, you know, I was building the manufacturing company that I'm in now.

And I realized along the way, as an entrepreneur or someone who's a business owner, there's not this fantastic retirement package sitting there waiting for you.

So you better either save some money or find a way to create a retirement package yourself.

And for me, that was real estate.

I'd always loved real estate and the idea of it.

I was a tool guy at heart, so I loved construction.

Obviously, it didn't support my lifestyle.

I'm a better businessman than I am a tool guy, but I love tools and I love working with them.

So it really stemmed from trying to figure out, okay, hey, I'm running this business, but there's no retirement package.

So it's either just save cash and try to figure out where to go or start investing.

2005 is when I bought my first home.

That was 2006.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Was it really?

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

So that was my first one after that long three and a half year stem of reading everything and thought I knew everything and really knew a whole lot of nothing, you know, and bought the first one and, you know, it was hard.

I learned a whole lot on that first one.

And, you know, there's something about the second one.

It just comes like that.

The first one is, like, torturous to get, but after you get into that first one, it's like they start piling up and 2, 3, and 4 come along quick.

And that was really the journey.

Even though we were pushing into the recession of 08, it was a tough time in the manufacturing company.

You know, after we lost like the 35th.

It was literally the 35th contract.

And it was with, I remember clear as day, as with Cisco System.

And we lost that contract because, you know, call after call, people disappear.

And I started getting a little bit nervous, obviously, because the business is struggling now, and it's like, where'd everybody go?

Somebody flipped a light switch and then buying this real estate.

And I'm new at it.

But, you know, I'll tell you this, Dustin, it's the greatest blessing.

And you know this.

It's the greatest blessing that I've.

I've ever received because somehow God gave me enough pressure behind me and insight to be able to step in.

And had I never stepped in, I wouldn't have this life of retirement where I'm working the hardest I've ever worked in my retirement.

But it's things that I choose.

So it's different than feeling like I'm obligated and have to punch the clock, you know, to chase day by day, my bills and all those things.

So it's been a huge blessing.

It's interesting how you mentioned your first property was the hardest.

And for every single person, you're 100% right.

Everybody runs through this.

In fact, I've created the.

Basically a roadmap that I went on and that I take all my students on and share with that.

There's a roadmap that every investor has to go through.

First property is always the hardest because you haven't even proven it to yourself that it works.

Once you get that first property, usually if you do it right, I suggest build a business that the inventory is your properties in your business that makes you money.

If you do it right, hopefully that second and third property come fairly quickly after that because you prove itself that it works.

And then you also have hopefully people in place like this business ready and sending you deals and all that sort of stuff.

But then on the roadmap, eventually you get to a point where you can't, you don't have enough time to manage all the properties yourself, to look at all the property.

And so you realize, oh my goodness, I need to turn from being an investor to being a business owner where I own a business that runs it for me.

Because if you're a mom and pop, you're doing the business yourself, like buying the real estate, fixing it up yourself, managing yourself.

There's, there's only so much time in the day.

You need to start getting people around you.

Did you have that type?

Like, does that have anything in your blueprint that you have is like, how do we get other people around you to help you to, I guess, fast track or even buy back your time?

Yeah, totally.

So, you know, from my perspective, it was funny because as I wrote the book and then it goes through editing stages, as you know, which can be kind of grueling.

And it's a two part book.

What it really is, the first part is really real stories and, and it's giving you the information of how I got there and the steps that I took in the pitfalls and the challenges, along with kind of a motivational factor to help you realize, hey, look, it's not that hard, but you just have to take a step.

You just have to take a step.

If you commit to that, all things are possible.

And then in the second half of the book, it's really okay.

So I've been encouraging you to take a step.

Here's the pathway, here's the blueprint.

And I had some of the editors challenge the blueprint and say, well, you know, you should have had this first, then that second, then that third.

And I say, well, I appreciate that, but here's what I know about people.

They're going to do the fun stuff first, they're not going to do the hardest stuff first.

So my blueprint is designed to where you do the fun stuff first and you trap yourself essentially.

And once you're under that pressure point, you're forced forward.

You'll find a way, you'll get it done.

It's the pressure that creates diamonds.

It's the pressure that creates the success.

But if you don't learn to put yourself under pressure, then you're not going to have all the things that you need to do to be able to make this push through and be successful.

So two questions come to mind.

Number one, were those editors investors?

That's a great question.

That's the first question I asked them.

Hey, what do you actually know about real estate investing?

Exactly.

Okay, so the second question is, what did they want?

Were they suggesting first and what did you put first instead?

So to come back to what you had said about creating a business, I 100% agree.

You have to operate with a business mindset, not a mom and pop and not a mindset of, hey, I own this property, I'm the landlord, this and that.

You will be in trouble.

Quick.

Really quick.

So you have to create a business structure around it and it's not that hard.

But if you create that business structure, then you can start stepping through the process.

That's where a lot of people I see get stuck is they never create that structure that they have there.

But essentially it was.

And I want to pause for just a quick second and say, thank you so much for listening to the show.

If you've gotten anything out of the show, I would appreciate it if you went to anywhere that you listened to, let's say Apple or Spotify or wherever, and leave a five star review.

Honestly, I really appreciate you leaving an honest review.

I just love giving all this information out and I want to see you succeed.

Also send this to one person, just tell one person, say, hey, Dustin wants to help a million people to invest in real estate.

You need to listen to this because it's going to change your life.

Lastly, get my real estate investment course completely for free.

Text the word rental R E N T A L rental to 33777 rental to 33777.

I'll literally give you my course showing you everything in the business so that you can become financially independent.

You know the simple things like create an llc, put the property in the llc, very simple stuff to get started.

And once you get there, then it gives you a pathway forward.

What did they want for first?

Like finding properties or getting money or something?

Yeah, they wanted to get into, you know, setting up the LLC first before you buy a property.

And for me it was like, you know what, nobody's going to do that.

Most people, they Want to go shopping, they want to go shopping.

It's great.

And I even put in there, hey, look, here would be the best route.

But here's what you're really going to want to do.

You're going to want to fuel the excitement.

And that excitement is going to give you a propulsion to keep moving forward.

So with that, go shopping, start figuring out what your model is, you know, and once you buy a house, guess what?

All those other things, you're going to have to get them done now you don't have a choice anymore.

That's kind of what it is.

And I always say that because, you know, obviously there's a lot of routes, you know that you're successful in what you do and, you know, the route you took could be.

I'm sure there was different.

Different steps forward than what I took and the next guy.

But the fact of the matter is, you know, the excitement is what creates the fuel for the next steps.

And if somebody never takes a first step, here's what you and I know, what do you end up with?

Nothing.

I 100% agree.

And with.

So everybody's going to have a different path, or at least the path that they take is how.

What's going to help them to move forward to the next one next step.

Because as soon as they get a roadblock, if they stop, then they're done.

So I like the idea of helping them to get little wins along the way.

That's what I try to do with everybody.

One of my students, when you jump on a coaching call, what I ask everybody on the group call say, let's share wins, let's get encouragement, let's ourselves be encouraged.

But then also you see other people that they got a win, oh, they got a small win of finding a city that they wanted to invest in.

They found a property manager.

That might not seem like a big win, but it's a very big win.

We might think, okay, buying that property, that's the win.

No, there's so many little wins along the way that propel you forward to the next one and to the next one.

Okay, so what would be a not say, a problem?

Like, what's a mistake that you have done in your investing?

You're like, man, if there was anything I want somebody to take away, don't do something like this or don't do that.

Only one.

I've got lots of them too.

Right, right.

You know, I think one of the biggest one is what I call good cop, bad cop, and it's defined in the book And I've taught this to so many people way before this book even, you know, came into fruition is you have to separate yourself in the communication with your tenants.

If you're self managing, you cannot be the landlord and the person who's responsible because all of a sudden that relationship changes and you're on the hook and they're going to drive you insane, drive you insane and you're going to hate the business.

But if you separate yourself so in our structure, so we self manage, we've, we've kind of built that out within our company.

We self manage, we've tried the managers and we've gone that route.

It was an epic fail in some ways and there was some good points, but not, not that great overall.

But that one thing because when, when a tenant realizes that you're the one, they can press on or you're the one that they can fight with or, or whatever else, you lose all negotiating power.

So in my business, I am always the landlord.

I'm never the owner.

I'm not.

And it's true, the company owns the properties whether I own the company and how you want to, you know, spin that circle, but it's the truth.

The company owns the properties, I own the management company.

So I am the landlord.

In our associates are, you know, the representatives.

That's that.

So which means when there's a problem come up and they're irate or offended or upset about something, hey, I am on your side.

Let's see how we can resolve this.

But I can't do this.

You know, it's, I'm not the one who makes the decisions by myself.

If it were just me, sure.

And we were just friends, I'd just give it to you, but I can't.

So let me run this through and see what we can do for you and try to find the best outcome that way that I'm the negotiating tool essentially to where I always keep the peace, I keep the temperaments down and allows us to find a win win over and over without all the chaos.

And the pressures that is absolute gold.

Like if you can make it so that you're, you're not connected as the landlord to the tenants.

Especially obviously if you're self managing, if you have a property manager, definitely don't tell your tenants that you own the property.

I've had people, yeah, Dustin, I have a property manager, but they, my tenants call me, I'm like, oh, how do they even know you exist again?

No, it's so, I love that you've figured out or you understand now obviously and are sharing that when you are so connected or so in touch with the person, then you're right, you have no, no negotiating, no bargaining chips.

And what I do is I tell my property managers, use me as the bad guy because I don't want to talk to the tenants.

And I just like that.

It's like I want you to help the tenants believe that they're on your side or you're on their side because you are, you want to help them out.

We want to make sure everybody win, wins.

But at the same time we don't want to get snowballed or rolled over or you know, taken advantage of because that's what happens if you show that you're the landlord.

Unless you're like, you have a thin skin, your skin is so thick that you can just.

You don't care about anybody's feelings, which I was a pushover the first couple of years of doing this.

I got so much money lost, tenants staying in there for longer, just so many bad things because I was just a pushover.

Now they take advantage.

They sure do.

Now I make it as a business, their business.

Rules, procedures, processes, treat everybody the same.

I don't care who they are, what they are.

Oh, Brent's due on the first, late after the third, we get three day notice.

Right after that they don't pay late fees.

And then we start the eviction process just like clockwork.

And if you do that, it's the most non discriminatory practice you could ever have.

You treat every single person the same.

Oh, it totally is.

You're right.

And you know, one of the over overarching fears that everybody has, you know, they'll always bring to you.

Well, you know, I don't want to deal with tenants, that's the first thing they say or you know, I don't want the call at 2am in the morning about the toilet overflowing.

Dustin, I've never had that call.

I've never had that call.

And I'm like, well, don't answer your phone.

Okay, there you go.

So if the house washes away, you have insurance, who cares?

Don't deal with it.

So the pressures that people think are all the reality of around that really they're not true.

They're fear because they're making an excuse for themselves of why they don't step in.

And the truth is it's not that hard.

I know you and I are, we've experienced this already, so it's funny to us, but it's A very real fear to these people who are new or maybe just beginning.

But the fact is it doesn't have to be.

And the whole business thing, you know, that scares some people sometimes when you talk about business.

Well, I'm not a business person.

I don't know how to do that.

That's not that hard either.

You and I know that.

You know, it's just a matter of using some common sense and creating some structure.

You're not going to have it all the first time.

It takes time and experience to gain these things, to build these systems and protocols that then make it to where you know what, it's pretty much on autopilot.

That's the most amazing place to be, especially when you wake up someday and you're, you know, 60, 65, whatever it is, and you look back and you're like, wow, what would my life, what would my financial freedom, what would my family's opportunities be like had I not ever made that first step?

That's what it's really all about.

Totally agree.

And I love the I don't know proverb quote.

The question is, when's the best time to plant a tree?

Well, it was 20 years ago, but the next best time is today.

Same thing with real estate investing.

When was the best?

Or is the best time 20 years ago?

Next best time is today.

And so what I want for the person listening, for you listening, I want you to realize that 20 years from now, I want you to not think, oh, man, I was listening to Sean and Dustin on that episode and I should have invested in real estate back then 20 years ago.

But now look at the prices now, now this and now there's always excuses and reasons.

Instead of being that person, I want you to be that person that says, 20 years from now.

You're thinking, I'm so glad I started investing back 20 years ago because I listened to Dustin and Sean as they were walking through how we can do it right?

And, you know, getting your book.

So for everybody, the book is Fear to Fortune.

So definitely go get his book.

It's@se galtney.com I'll put the link in the description so you can get it.

There's still more we're going to talk about, but I want to make sure you guys get that book because you're going to see his perspective on how he built the road.

Roadmap.

But yeah, I find the best time is to buy today because you buy real estate and then you wait.

And over time, rents go up, prices go up, everything gets better.

Yeah, when, when has anything gotten cheaper ever in the history of ever?

You know, it just, everything goes up.

And it's funny because I'm having that conversation with my daughters now.

I have four daughters, you know that, but three of them are married and they're buying real estate.

So they're following kind of the pathway.

I've got to, you know, I've been blessed to be able to speak into their lives and they're diligent with their money.

So they've all bought their first property and now they're looking for their second.

They're going to move out of that one.

You know, they're kind of hacking their living in it and now they're going to step out of it, rent that one and buy another one.

So to help give them that pathway, a start without, you know, being too hard because they're building their careers and stuff too.

But yeah, it, it, it truly is, man, it really is just about if, if you start.

Because part of what I put in the book was, look, if you just bought one, if you only bought one, it can Change your life 20 years from now, you know, just from sitting on it and letting that accumulate.

And I even put some math in the book on one of the properties to show what that property did off of like $30,000 investment.

And then I, you know, you hear people, well, where am I going to get $30,000?

I don't know.

Your, your parents, somebody go chase it, go chase it.

There are people around you with money, I promise you.

And if you brought the right deal, they'd invest.

Do you mind sharing how many, like what your portfolio is like right now?

You don't have to tell like how much income or like, like what type of properties you own and stuff like that.

Yeah, so mine was a little different and it was, it's blessing and luck.

I would, I would call it blessings and luck.

I didn't go for the small houses.

I went for the medium family income homes, three and four bedroom bigger homes to where families would live in.

And I came up to that conclusion because I had a friend of mine who is about 15 years older than me and there's a story about him in the book as well and he had like 40, 50 small homes in a municipality nearby.

And what I noticed was he was constantly turning him, the turnover was really high, it was low rent, you know, type properties.

So I really didn't want all that headache.

So what I did was I thought, okay, hey, I think that I'll get a better quality tenant in this product.

So I started buying them.

So they were much more expensive properties.

And what happened was one of the gals who rented one of the homes stayed there for 14 years.

Yeah, my average turnover is about every seven years.

So the people stay a long time.

Dustin, it's awesome.

It costs a lot of money to turn over a property.

It cost a lot of money.

It can kill your profits depending on how they took care of that, you know, property for sure.

So I, I did something else unique in, in my system, in my mindset was I hadn't, I had the manufacturing company because I, you know, if you remember, I, I started the real estate because I wanted to create a retirement package.

I didn't want to drop my company.

I enjoyed business and the art of business and so I kept that.

So my goal was not to, you know, drop one to get to the other.

So I had the benefits of both.

But when I started doing that, my second goal was to switch them to a 15 year as quick as possible.

I wanted a rapid payoff.

I wasn't looking for cash on cash, so I'd have them a few years and like everything, rent's always climbing.

Right.

As long as everything going well.

And as soon as they could pretty much support themselves to switch to a 15 year, I switched to a 15 year.

So now I don't have any debt on all these properties.

They're all paid for.

And one gal paid for the property because she was there for 14 years.

So, you know, two tenants essentially is my average turnover for a 15 year mortgage.

And they're paying for the property.

So super blessed like that.

So I have a, a large dollar amount but a low volume of doors because they produce so much more and they bring a different type of tenant.

So my turnover was way lower as well, which really turned out to be a blessing.

How many, how many single family homes do you have?

So I have 15 single family and.

But they're so.

St.

Louis, in St.

Louis.

Okay, so there's about, there's about 5 million in that package and it's just because of the type of homes that I bought.

So what I, what I love about it is now I've had a, I've had others that will come and go, but I've kind of let a bunch go.

And then I tried some of the smaller ones and the management was so much more intensive that I let those go.

So we reduced it down.

Now this package creates a really healthy passive income and it's super easy to manage because most of the time, not all the Time.

Most of the time, these people take really good care of the homes because it's, it's, you know, they're raising their families there.

And I only buy in top quality school districts.

So there's some criteria that I watch for specifically that's, that's turned out to be pretty successful.

And I.

So everybody in life, if they're a real estate investor, should play Monopoly.

In real life, you start small and you keep working your way up.

You have a blessing.

And I, I say this with a caveat that I think every single person, especially you, you listening to this, you have a strategic advantage that other people don't have.

Like Sean had a strategic advantage.

He had a business that he was building up, had some cash flow to be able to buy a little more expensive properties.

I have a strategic advantage.

Every single person has their own strategic advantage over other people.

So you might be thinking, well, Sean had this or Dustin had that.

I don't have.

Don't compare yourself to us.

What I believe, and I've seen this because I've coached thousands of people now, every single person, they have to search for it, but they'll find their strategic advantage.

Some are easy to find, some are harder to find.

But eventually you're going to be able to play Monopoly, buy that first property.

Now, Sean, you jump into the, you have these larger or more expensive homes which are fantastic.

So when playing Monopoly, if you don't have that much money, a strategic advantage, honestly, is not having much money also helps you to save money to scrimp, to save, to negotiate, to, to, you know, talk people down.

Like, you become a really good business owner, then you make more cash flow because you're really working hard.

But you start with the smaller homes and then eventually work your way up to larger homes or even more expensive homes like Sean's at.

Then we get into commercial real estate or multifamily properties, which I want to jump into now because you've invested with, in a couple deals with me, apartment complexes.

Now there's the COVID which is 355 units.

And also we have the rustic, which is 375 units now.

And they're both terrific properties.

Talk to me about the commercial aspect, like go play Monopoly, going from small, bigger and keep going up.

What's your, do you own any more commercial real estate like the, where your business is at or anything like that?

Yeah, so the, the building where the business is at is, is mine.

So that's, that's some square footage there that we operate out of.

So that's a good one.

I'm always watching for properties and I've bought some and let them go, but I don't hold a lot for a long time in the commercial space.

It's really tough in St.

Louis on the commercial side as far as industrial.

So industrial is kind of a hotspot right now, so I enjoy that space.

So I have some brokers who are constantly throwing stuff at me, but, man, is it ever competitive in St.

Louis, at least outside of that.

Yeah, I've got deals like with you and you and I have partnered on some stuff, and I've got a slew of those.

So I'm in a lot of multifamily space outside of the two that you just mentioned.

And I enjoy that because it's different.

Because instead of the nice part is, you know, when you invest in a position like that, you're.

You're taking part of the ownership, but you don't have to hardly do anything, you know, so you get to have a lot more of the passive side of it.

But you have to have the cash and the money to invest, which means you still have to work on the back end to get yourself built up.

The thing that I always tell people, you know, at this point, real estate, well, takes care of me, but I still have the manufacturing company that is just like icing on the cake.

So it's a huge blessing that just pours into our family.

But all the real estate is what gave me retirement to where I could say, you know, I don't have to work, I have plenty that, well, surpasses our lifestyle.

And we don't live.

We don't live large, but we don't live small, you know, so everything within reason.

We enjoy life, I should say.

And we have, you know, vacation homes and stuff like that, but we're not out, you know, buying a whole corral of cars and everything to say, look what I got, because I really don't care about that.

You know, you were right.

The money, which I chased to for a long time, it didn't bring the fulfillment.

But what's exciting is the art of the deal and winning and succeeding and conquering that next thing, that's what's really exciting and that's what it's really about.

But to say that for the folks who are new or maybe just jumping into one of your courses or something else, I can tell you, if this guy can do it, anybody can do it.

Same here.

I'm not an educated guy.

I don't have any background to pull from my Wife and I pull ourselves out of poverty.

I mean, out of poverty, we had nothing.

Nothing.

So God's been really, really good to us.

But what God's done is he's blessed my movement.

If I hadn't taken steps.

That's the only difference that got us to this position is the grace of God number one.

But also because I was willing to make movement.

So anybody who's out there, who may be listening in your audience, if they think they have to have some MBA or some big degree or.

Or some big real estate background or anything, really, you don't.

You just have to have some grit and some drive to say, you know what?

I want this.

What do I have to do to make it happen?

Not can I make it happen?

Not a choice.

You have to make a decision.

Choices give you too many options, and you're always going to take the least route of resistance.

So this is about a decision.

And when you make that, you and I know that's the only way forward.

And that's.

That's pretty much what.

What allowed me to be in this position today of freedom.

So I got a call from a friend who's in the commercial space just this morning.

We were talking through properties, and I wanted to chat with you a little bit about it.

I was like, maybe I should make you, you know, call you directly.

But I thought, let's do it on the podcast.

So what we're.

And so this is when we're recording this.

This is April in 2025.

And so right now, we see a lot of turmoil in the economy.

Like, stocks are not doing well right now.

The tariffs are starting to be talked about.

Trump's talking about or doing implementing tariffs.

But here's what it was interesting.

So I got a call from a fellow investor, and he said, hey, there is a lender who has a portfolio of properties that they have lent out millions of dollars total.

Like maybe 10 or 12 different full apartment complexes, but each vary from 20 units to, you know, 100 units.

But they have a lot of properties that they're actually going to have to take back in foreclosure because the borrower, the person that bought it, got the loan.

They're not doing well, and they can't refinance.

And I'm like, oh, wow.

I've been hoping and waiting for this.

Not hoping people lose money.

That's not what I'm hoping for some good deals to hit the market.

Because in 2008, when there was a crash, I learned a big lesson.

I didn't get hurt at all, in fact, because I invested solely for cash flow, I was making money now.

My values went down, which was a bummer, but I didn't care because I had cash flow coming in now.

My properties are double or triple what they were back then.

And so I knew, or I know, because it hasn't happened yet.

But there will be something in the economy in the future.

I don't know if it's now or ten years from now.

Eventually there's going to be another really great time to buy because everything's bad, the economy's bad, real estate's out of size style and all that sort of stuff.

And that's what it might be seeing now.

Have you seen anything recently about how the economy might be making real estate prices adjust or anything like that?

Because when I saw that, I was like, ooh, I don't want to be.

I don't want to try to jump in now, considering they might go to foreclosure.

I can buy even cheaper.

But, like, what are you seeing right now in the market?

Yeah, I think the primary driver is the tariffs.

In fact, I think it was just today Trump announced that he's going to do a flat 5% for all countries.

So in other words, the ones where we didn't have any tariffs, now there's going to be a 5% regardless.

So, hey, look, that doesn't hurt the other countries, that hurts ours as well.

And there's going to be a pain point that we're going to have to adjust because, you know, like in the manufacturing side, this is close to home for me.

We're direct importers of raw goods and then we build the goods out, finish the manufacturing, and they move on to the end user or consumer actually, you know, prosumer at that point.

So it affects everybody.

So there's absolutely going to be people who can't raise their prices because the market just won't yield a buyer for, for a new price.

So what do you do now?

Their margins are smaller now.

We've been blessed.

We're a cash company.

We carry no debt.

We are a solid company.

We're in the top 95 percentile of our industry.

So that was just recently by Morgan Stanley.

So anyway, we're, we're set.

And those are based on biblical principles.

So we have a foundation that doesn't make us uncomfortable or faulty.

You know, something that could fall easily now only by the grace of God, because anything could happen.

Right.

But I can say that we see that now there's some of our importers, we have a flat 20%.

Now that's coming on raw goods.

Well, that just dings your profit margins.

But the challenge is most of these companies, unlike us, we have a really high margin, they have a really small margin.

They may be working off, if they're really healthy, 10%.

But I have friends who are running 100 plus.

Million dollar companies are running off 2 and 3%.

Well, what happens when you have these extra tariffs in there?

Somebody's going to pay, somebody's going to pay if you can't raise a price.

So either it's going to be passed on to consumer, which then retracts spending, which means, you know, they're not going to buy as much, which then dings the housing market a little bit more.

It's a trickle effect that goes both ways.

All that to say, yeah, I'm already seeing in the commercial space there are people who I've already seen a couple fire sales in industrial.

We couldn't make the deal work, but man, I wanted to.

It was because of an assumption that they were forcing on a loan, but otherwise the deal was great.

Why?

Because it was reset time.

They had to reset their mortgage and their arm was up.

Well, guess what, it's a dramatically different payment now that they have to cover.

And does their current renters cover that or did they have to jack up the rent for everybody?

And you know, some of them have clauses, they can only come up so much, you know, depending on how the lease was written.

So there's a lot of variables in there.

So I'm not surprised.

Dustin, and you and I have talked about this before.

I think if you're an investor, you better be prepared because there's opportunities coming.

There are opportunities coming and it only comes like once every, you know, 10, 15, maybe 20 years.

Sometimes that big of a gap.

Well, the last one from now what, 2008 to now?

2008, my goodness, almost 20 years now.

And if we'd have had the insight to really dive in and know what that was.

Well, now experience tells us if we look back on history, we're old enough to know exactly what that was.

That hey, you better buy because there's nowhere to go but up.

Yeah.

And it's also really interesting that one of the best stock business owners, stock guys, is Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway has the most cash on hand than it's ever had.

Like they've sold, sold, sold, sold, sold, sold, reaped everything in.

And I saw a chart, it was like a bar chart over the last.

I don't know, 20 years, it was like, you know, small, small or relatively small on the chart.

But then all of a sudden the last two years just skyrocketed, like quadrupled.

How much cash they have on hand, I think they might know something is happening and so they're getting ready to buy things.

Pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, they will.

I mean, that's, that's, that's what he's known for.

I mean, he's known for that.

He's a brilliant, brilliant man.

And they're holding cash because they know that the banks are going to be, you know, in a, in a vulnerable position, even with CDs and stuff.

So I invest in all kinds of places.

I'm a little cautious on where it goes because the stability of that particular bank, you know, and if you have seven figures in a fund that you're trading, well, you know, it's cumulative, your FDIC insurance.

So you may have 12 CDs and think, oh, what's with 12 different places?

Well, sorry buddy, but it doesn't matter.

You got 250 for you or 500 coverage if you're joint, you know, and that's it.

Wow.

Yeah, you have to think about that stuff.

So you have to start juggling money between banks and everything else.

But, you know, the point is to your point.

Yeah, you have to seize the opportunity.

I love what Barbara Cochran says.

She says, I always overpay.

I always overpay.

And the premise is, you know, obviously you don't want to overpay if you don't have to, but if you don't have the asset in 10 years from now, would you have rather overpaid 10 years previously or would you rather have nothing now?

Because I guarantee you, you were way past 10 years forward than what you would be today.

Oh, absolutely.

That's a great point.

I mean, just the thought of something tangible like real estate.

Absolutely fantastic.

Because in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, it's going to be better than it is now.

Same thing with like gold and silver.

I was telling people, I don't know, a year and a half ago or something like that, that, hey, gold might do something here pretty soon because they inflation, they've been printing so much money.

And so when I was talking to people, I was like, hey, gold's 1800 right now.

Let's do this on Instagram.

So if you want to find me and Sean on Instagram, I'm the Dustin Heiner.

Sean is Sean Underscore Gwaltney.

So I'll put those links in description as well.

But I was talking on Instagram saying, hey, it's 1800, but it's probably going to go up.

And then the next, probably six to eight months later, it was like 2,400.

I was like, hey, look, it's already 12 400.

Now it just hit 30.

Almost $3,200.

In like a year, it went from 1,800 DOL to $3,200.

And when you think about tangible assets, tangible things that if it's in a bank.

Yeah, if the bank goes under, good luck getting your money back.

I mean, you might try to.

Oh, the government's going to help.

I'm old enough now where I don't depend on the government for anything as best I can.

In fact, I remember Ronald Reagan's words was the most scariest words you could ever hear is a knock at the door and then somebody standing there saying, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

I'm like, oh, that's not what you want.

I was like, that's a good point.

But I'll bring that all back to if you have tangible assets, gold, silver, guns and ammo, real estate, things that will hold value that over time, they're going to get better and better.

Now, what I love about real estate, not so much gold.

Real estate, you make money.

You should be able to make money every single month.

And if you're as you're making money, that is money that you could feed your family with, put a roof over your heads and not have to work a job.

Yeah, no, I love that.

And I'm the same way.

You know, I went down the path of, you know, loading up on some Golden Eagles, you know, to get a stack of those.

It's kind of cool, really.

I just figured, you know, someday I'm going to pass along to my kids or they'll inherit it, whatever else.

And it wasn't a.

You know, obviously you don't want to invest something you're not willing to lose in that capacity.

But yeah, it just, you know, there's only one way to create assets that pay you something, number one, but also that gain in value in time.

And there's not a.

I mean, maybe there's a lot more than I know about, but real estate is the number one.

In fact, the IRS even stated, I think it was last year, they made a comment that most, the majority of wealth that they saw through all the returns were created through real estate.

The majority of wealth within the U.S.

hello.

I mean, that, that, that's an easy statement right there.

So it doesn't take a lot.

But, you know, I think diversity is, is awesome as well.

You know, like the gold.

You mentioned the gold.

All the brick states are buying up gold like crazy.

Well, why, Dustin?

Why are they doing that?

That's what I ask myself is why are they doing that, Sean?

You have to ask yourself.

So I thought, you know, we have a massive reserve of gold that we're valuing at like, I think $14 an ounce.

And don't quote me on that, that could be way off.

But it's way low.

It's back when we decoupled gold.

So it was from that current value, from what I understand.

And if we actually valued it to today's value, holy cow, can you imagine what that gold will be worth?

And now there's starting to be some buzzwords that I heard Trump saying about gold and Elon Musk about what the reserve has in gold.

So I'm like, they're talking about gold and what the reserve has in gold.

I wonder what's going to happen here.

So, like Fort Knox.

They're talking about going in and going through Fort Knox and auditing it.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Why, why would they care?

Well, because gold has value.

And can you imagine if they.

If they decided to recouple that or use it as a hedge against something?

I don't know.

I'm not that smart of a guy.

But the point is, diversity is key.

So, yeah, I love real estate, but I also buy other things, you know, that I think have potential within reason, because you don't want all your eggs in one basket.

And it's a little more fun.

It is more fun.

And what I love is as you become a better investor, you go down that roadmap where you start as you know, basically you're trying to get income in, then you become a scaler, buying more properties.

Eventually you become an income investor.

We have lots of money coming in, less time, so you use that money and you buy more things.

And what I love is getting around other people who are experts that are experts in other things that I don't want to be an expert in, but I invest with them.

I don't get 100% of the reward because I'm not the expert, but I'm going to invest in their, like gold and silver, other real estate, like apartment complexes, hotels.

Like, I don't want to run a hotel, but I invested in some hotels because I was like, you know, I'd love To play Monopoly in real life.

And eventually, you know, I always want to get to hotels.

So I was blessed to be able to invest in some hotels.

But with.

With having other people around you, that is one of the best things that I've seen, to exponentially grow somebody's wealth.

Because if you're doing it alone, which, it's totally fine to do it alone, I did that from the very beginning.

But then as I realized, man, this can be a team sport.

Like, it doesn't have to be me against everybody else.

It could be a team sport.

Oh, my goodness.

I make so much more money now.

The more people I bring into deals I like, hey, let's all benefit from it.

Yeah, no, great point.

I'm so glad you brought that up.

So I use this term I call the three P triple P.

People propel prosperity.

And it's, you know, I've taught that for decades.

And it wasn't.

There was a point where I had to learn the hard lesson or truth about that because, like you, I started by myself.

And it was.

I had nobody to ask questions or anything else.

Now that I'm.

I'm in my.

What I like to call my more mature phase.

Not my matures phase maybe, but my more mature phase than what.

What I was before.

Man, it's just truth.

You need people.

Iron sharpens iron.

We were created to do life together.

So if you're trying to do it by yourself, you're really chucking away at it the hard, hard way.

It doesn't have to be that hard, just our relationship here.

Dustin and I have done a couple deals now that are very lucrative deals because we knew each other.

If we didn't know each other, I wouldn't have had opportunity to it and we wouldn't have been able to make the connection for it.

So people propel, prosper.

It's just that simple.

Get out there and meet some people.

That's what it's really all about.

Like the roopcon conference.

There are people there.

You're bringing a massive amount of people there.

It's a fantastic conference to be able to network, meet some people.

And if you've never stepped into real estate space, there'll be all kinds there.

It's a fantastic place to be.

That's how you and I met.

I just popped in to see a close buddy of mine who was going to speak and support him because he's a lifelong friend.

And here I met Dustin and several other people, and I've made some really good friends.

And it's turned into business opportunities as well.

That's just how you win.

It takes.

People love it.

Sean, this has been fantastic.

So definitely everybody needs to get the book Fear to Fortune.

And you learn from Sean's experiences, past history, as well as losses, too.

I mean, I try to make sure that all of my losses out there help other people because I believe, and I love the thought that a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from other people's mistakes.

So definitely get Sean's book Fear to Fortune, but go to Sean Gaultney.com as well as find him on Instagram.

Sean Gwaltney.

I'll put the links in the description.

Is there any other things that you'd like to share before we sign off, Sean?

Oh, man.

You know, first of all, I just have to say, Dustin, it's always a pleasure speaking with you and thanks for taking the time.

It's been a lot of fun.

But, you know, I really just my.

My goal right now in this phase of life is really I want to help build people, and I want to encourage them and motivate them.

I don't want to be seen as is some guy, you know, haughty guy who made a little bit of money and.

And is the expert.

I'm not claiming to be the expert, but what I am claiming to be is somebody who's got 36 years of experience in business and a lot of failures and a lot of hardships.

That's what I want to pass on.

Because if you take some of these concepts, you really can use them as stepping stones that will create a future for you and for your family that can be like no other way that you could possibly be doing if you're punching the clock.

So this is really about a freedom movement for me.

I love it.

Same here.

That's my ultimate goal, is to help people to have freedom.

I mean, just freedom in life from time, money, you know, you name it is freedom.

But Sean, great having you, a friend.

As a friend and having you on the show, man, I really appreciate you.

Hey, thanks, Dustin.

I appreciate it, buddy.

And that is it for today.

Go ahead and get my free real estate investing course, Texas Word Rental.

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All right, guys, we'll see you in the next show.

See.