I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:00:39] Trisha: Hi there everyone, I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives, especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness the shifts in our thinking.

[00:01:02] Trisha: As those of you who have listened to some of our earlier episodes will be aware, Cultural Intelligence, CQ, capability to be effective in situations of diversity, is made up of four areas. There's the Motivational, which is called CQ Drive, the Cognitive, CQ Knowledge, the Metacognitive, CQ Strategy, and Behavioural, CQ Action.

[00:01:25] Trisha: And all four of these capabilities help us to be effective in situations of diversity. In this podcast, we're focusing more on the metacognitive aspect. Which is thinking about our thinking. It's the CQ strategy. So today's guest is a friend and colleague in the DEI consulting field. He's based in the US and he has a fascinating backstory.

[00:01:50] Trisha: Before moving into the business world, Brian was a professional baseball catcher who played in major league baseball teams for eight years. He was recruited from college where he was on both the Stanford University baseball and the football teams. This is a true athletelessness, and after retiring from his professional playing career with the San Francisco Giants, he then worked in the front office for them for another 10 years, so he knows sport from a player's and a manager's perspective.

[00:02:22] Trisha: So how did he end up a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Executive Consultant? We have a lot of shifts to unpack here, people, but first, welcome, Brian Johnson.

[00:02:34] Brian: Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here. Always good to be with you, Trisha.

[00:02:37] Trisha: Great. and the questions we ask all our guests. Brian, what is a culture other than the culture you grew up in that you have learned to love and appreciate?

[00:02:47] Brian: There's a lot. I lived in Mexico, for four months and I loved it down there. I lived in Puerto Rico, which is still part of the United States, but it's very culturally a different area, a different type of culture. So I loved it there. so I really enjoyed both of those. so there's a whole lot of cultures I enjoyed, but I, I think The place where I grew up was unique.

[00:03:07] Brian: and so even though I know you said not where you grew up, but that I found that the more that I left home, I realized how unique home was. Because for those of you listeners that may not know I lived in the Oakland San Francisco Bay Area. I lived in Oakland, California, where there's so many different types of people so many different folks from Africa from Asia from from all over.

[00:03:30] Brian: And so many different colors and cultures mixed into our. Our little city of Oakland, California, that it was really fascinating. And then just 10 minutes across the water in San Francisco, across the bridge, across the Bay bridge. A lot of people know the golden gate bridge, but that kind of goes the other way.

[00:03:46] Brian: Oakland is a part of a connects is connected by the Bay bridge. but just across the Bay Bridge is the largest LGBTQ plus community in the world, essentially all in one place. So it was a fascinating place to grow up, fascinating place to learn about other people, and realizing that people were having a different experience than I was.

[00:04:04] Brian: that may look differently from me or maybe from a different area or a different state or a different country. even though you asked me not to do home, I think home was really the most unique place for me.

[00:04:13] Trisha: Yeah. And it sounds like home then, unlike some other locations where people sort of go into their own little group and, have their own little subcultures or mini cultures within an area. It sounds like that didn't happen.

[00:04:27] Brian: Yeah. well, you know, it kind of did. But my, because again, because of sports, I was very much into sports as a young kid, and so that kind of gave me creative license, maybe to be able to be a part of many groups, but not solely have to be a part of any of them. And so I was able to kind of bounce around and learn about lots of other people.

[00:04:48] Brian: And nothing really tied me to them. so it was, again, just added to my experience where I was able to hang out with folks and learn about folks and get to know and have relationships in different areas that maybe I wouldn't necessarily hang out with because I was the sports guy. I would kind of had a free pass to get in there.

[00:05:05] Trisha: That's fascinating. Regular listeners might remember Mikel a few episodes ago, who spoke about when he was a young, kid, having the same sort of fascination with people who were different. And I think, you know, I haven't actually looked into cultural intelligence , at a child's age.

[00:05:21] Trisha: but I think that would be quite interesting to see those children who have got that, cause that's real CQ drive, that interest, that, that desire to sort of be with other people. Fantastic. Can you tell me about a time when you experienced a shift, when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:05:38] Brian: Oh, yeah, I have a big one. let's see. So I, so as I mentioned, there's a lot of different folks that grew up in my city or that were in my city that I grew up in. and it was predominantly a black African American city. and I'm being a white heterosexual male. that was my lens, right? That's what I saw the world through.

[00:05:54] Brian: And so when I was a young child, 10 years old, maybe, I would play in the better, baseball leagues around the city. I lived in a white neighborhood. and I had two coaches, one of them black, one of them white, and the black one realized that I had a talent like when I was nine, 10 years old.

[00:06:09] Brian: So back home in Oakland, you have the flatlands that are a little more diverse and you have the hills that are a little more exclusive. so I lived in the hills. my parents, my father was a cardiologist, a physician. My mother was an emergency room nurse. So, that's where I grew up and lived.

[00:06:26] Brian: So, but this coach that I had who happened to be black, who was also a lawyer going through law school at the time, he took me off the hill and took me to, other neighborhoods to play baseball, where there was better competition to see how I would hold up there because they knew the surroundings where I grew up wasn't enough athletically to, to help me.

[00:06:44] Brian: And that changed my life. Honestly, that changed my life. So where I had a lot of teammates, that were black, sometime, usually I was the only white player, on the team or in the stadium or on the field, and it was a fascinating experience to go through that. to appreciate what it's like to be the only one to what it's like to be the different one.

[00:07:03] Brian: And, uh, you know, even though the United States is built around white males and, and there's a lot of privilege in that, that I experienced all the time. but in that microcosm, in that sub geographical area of Oakland, California. I was not, I didn't have racial privilege in that being a baseball player.

[00:07:18] Brian: So I would go spend the, spend the night at some of my black players, friends, house, several of them. So it was a, it was a trend. and they would talk about racial situations, geographic situations, political things, religious things, like all this stuff they would talk about. And then when I would bring them over to my house to spend the night, my parents didn't talk about anything.

[00:07:38] Brian: My parents were nice and kind, but they didn't talk about anything racial, political, religious, whatever. So I was fascinated by this whole different world and the key here. and I'll close with this, the, when I was spending the night at my black friend's house, They didn't treat me like the white kid in the room.

[00:07:54] Brian: Nobody tippy toed around my feelings. No one held back on the story of the details or maybe the forceness of discrimination and real racism happening to them. They told me in real time, and I was a part of the room, they treated me with love like a family member, not, and not worrying about what I, what they may say, may not say, and what I've heard or haven't heard.

[00:08:13] Brian: They actually knew they were teaching me something new and they, and they really enjoyed it. So that was. That was where I realized, Hey, not everybody's having the same experience. I am, I'm angry that, people that look like me, are treating other people poorly, and so that really was a driving force for me to be in diversity, equity, inclusion for the last 25 years.

[00:08:33] Trisha: So we've just come to the end of the whole, you know, podcast here and there and we could finish, but no, cause I want to go back there.

[00:08:40] Trisha: I want to go back. So you said they treated you with love. So there was this, you know, you were feeling comfortable and yet you were hearing things. Did the stories that you were hearing about the way they might've been treated, did you feel uncomfortable?

[00:08:56] Trisha: Was there discomfort in that experience as well?

[00:09:00] Brian: yeah, no, great question. Um, no, there wasn't discomfort. Well, it was discomfort in that I did, it was hard for me to hear who was responsible for this pain and agony and frustration and, and, you know. Essentially having their foot on their necks like, uh, figuratively, um, in that I was angry that I had something to do with it, even though I didn't literally figuratively, I had something that I was a part of because I was part of that team, right?

[00:09:30] Brian: Keep it in the in the sports realm. I was a part of that team. So I was so angry. I didn't want to be a part of that team. I pushed back. I didn't want to be white anymore. I didn't want to be that. And I didn't want to be a part of that team. And I was so hurt that that someone like me was doing this for me, right?

[00:09:45] Brian: That was creating laws. So I would get an advantage that was creating laws. So, so women wouldn't get advantage because me as a male and then me as a white man, I benefited in a double double way. So I was angry at that and I really pushed back on it. And I had a fascinating conversation with one of my black friends mother.

[00:10:02] Brian: She was, one of those wise gray haired, just knew everything. Just, just had a soothing voice to her cooked really well. So we were both by, uh, it was just the two of us in her kitchen, right? Kitchen's where everything happens. And I told her about this first, she's like, you know, what's going on with you?

[00:10:18] Brian: I was like, I'm frustrated. I'm angry. I don't like this, and this. So I explain basically, you know, what my experience had been. And I'm probably 13, 14 at this point.

[00:10:27] Brian: And she said, mmm mmm mmm she's like, stop that right now. I was like, what are you talking about? Right. Cause she's a black woman. She would understand because I'm angry because of this.

[00:10:35] Brian: No, she said, no, no, stop right there. She said, because listen, black people aren't perfect either. She said, black people aren't perfect. Mexican people aren't perfect. Australians aren't perfect. right? Uh, people around the world aren't perfect. Gay people aren't perfect. So yeah, white people aren't perfect either, but Don't do that.

[00:10:52] Brian: You try to do the best that you can try to make the world a better place every day that you have an opportunity. But, Latino folks, right? Dominicans don't like Puerto Ricans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans don't like Haitians. They all on the east coast and off the east coast of the United States in the Caribbean.

[00:11:07] Brian: There's also there's a lot of animosity towards, the Mexican population or Hispanic folks, right? . Gay folks oftentimes focus, she told me on just one issue, like it's only about their gay stuff, but they don't appreciate other people who are being discriminated against. She talked about how Indian folks have from India have the caste system, right?

[00:11:27] Brian: So they have things going on within their culture that they don't like. So, black folks aren't really great with, Colorism, right? The light lighter complected black folks and darker complected black folks. A lot of times there's f riction there. A lot of times gay people don't get treated really well in the, in the black community.

[00:11:41] Brian: So, so she named all these things to me. I was like, oh my goodness. And so it just changed my life and that one conversation of, Hey, just try to do the best you can. You gotta treat everybody with love and see how things work out.

Wow, what a woman. So, here was this young, young boy, and maybe that, that sort of first shift, that awareness of, of you, and, Your race, if you like, or your, your team, which I love the way you put that, was a beginning shift that you were aware of the injustice, you're aware of difference.

[00:12:12] Trisha: And then instead of having you sort of embed yourself just in that one issue, she then, if you like, took you up and gave you a meta perspective, lots of different perspectives. So there's a, A challenge for parenting, just for anybody, but obviously you were a very open young man to be able to, you know, for her to have that, ability to help you to see that.

[00:12:35] Trisha: So, yeah, that's, that's fascinating. Thank you. In the introduction, I referred to your professional sporting career and you've told us a bit about the beginning here. Brian, I have real admiration for the skills shown by sports people such as yourself. And sometimes in our house, we are fans of rugby union and, you referred to me as Australian, but I'm just going to confess right here that, I probably will never support the Australian team. Be careful. You know, immigration might come and get me and take away my citizenship. but at heart, when it comes to rugby union, I will always be an all black supporter. And so sometimes as a family, we'll be sitting watching a game and you know, the ball might just go out of screen and then suddenly you'll see somebody with it and I'll go, how did he get it?

[00:13:22] Trisha: And my son will go, well, he was there, he was in line, you know, he was, and I realized that I don't have this capacity to see like how balls move in the air or how, Teams are moving in a way that can predict things. And so I can really appreciate the skills that sports people show in their ability in the moment to just know things that are, Going to happen.

[00:13:47] Trisha: So as a non player, I'd love to know as a deeply skilled player, to what extent are you thinking about what you're doing? Like, you know, if you're up there and you're going to hit that ball as it's coming towards you, do you consciously think I'm going to hit it over there? Or, you know, here comes this ball and it's like this or, or is it just automatic?

[00:14:07] Trisha: So tell me about your thinking in those moments.

[00:14:10] Brian: Yeah. Yeah. No, great question. I'd say it's two things. I say when you're practicing, it's very much a conscious effort.

[00:14:18] Brian: So when I'm practicing, everything moves much slower. I have much more control over where the ball will go. There's no strategy for the person who's throwing me my practice pitches. Right.

[00:14:29] Brian: So they're just going to be straight. They're all going to be very easy lollipops. Right. So that I can really work on my mechanics and the mechanics of what I'm hitting the ball. So if I hit it to the left side of the field, I'll hit it a little bit earlier. If I want to hit it to the right side of the field, I'll wait a little bit longer and allow it to get to me a little bit more and then push it and hit it that way.

[00:14:48] Brian: So, and while I'm practicing on the same thing for in the field, right. And the balls in the glove, I want to make sure my hands are in the right place. . Everything's in the right place. Everything is moving slower. So it's so important, right? We talk when I coach, it's so important to talk about the fundamentals, right?

[00:15:05] Brian: Every, I think in every walk of life or any, any business or any, any fashion, people will talk about the fundamentals, fundamental, fundamental. Well, why are the fundamentals important?

[00:15:15] Brian: What I teach is the fundamentals are important because when you can control the environment, you want to work on the fundamentals.

[00:15:21] Brian: Why? Because when you're in competition, or when you're in the thick of it, or when you have a crisis, or when you have something go down, everything speeds up, you have to decide quicker, you have to do everything. So it's important that those fundamentals were practiced over and over again, so that you don't have to think.

[00:15:39] Brian: when the crisis happens. We don't have to think when the ball is coming to the place you have practiced enough, right? The 10, 000 hours or whatever you want to call it. You have practiced enough, whatever it is that you're working on to be able to react in the right way in a positive way and be agile mentally, cognitively, physically, athletically, you're able to be agile and adjust to the moment and give the moment what it needs versus what you would like to control.

[00:16:04] Brian: Because when, when you're in the moment, regardless of what it is, you can't control it. You're hoping that your training will take over. So I would say, I do think about it a lot in the practice stage. But when it becomes game time, I react and respond, which puts me in a great position to do well as an athlete.

[00:16:21] Trisha: right. Okay, so just a follow up to that that's made me think, so, if you muck up, you know, because even professional.

[00:16:30] Brian: Which, which happens a lot.

[00:16:32] Trisha: Yeah. Then what happens? Do you, you know, and I guess that's the challenge to not get caught up in that mistake in the moment. But tell me about from your perspective, what happens when you muck up, where does your brain go and what, what's your thinking like?

[00:16:47] Brian: Well, again, going back to the 10, 000 hours, because I put so much time and effort into practicing and training that when a, a bump in the road happens, I'm able to still have my confidence, right? Not everything is, going to be reliant upon success in every moment. Where I get my confidence from is the work. So I've practiced, I've been successful thousands of times. in in this this particular skill, be it defensive, be it throwing, be it hitting, whatever it may be in sports and baseball. And so because I've seen myself succeed thousands of time in a controlled environment, I know I can do it in this other environment.

[00:17:25] Brian: If it doesn't happen, once or twice. Well, again, baseball is unique in that you're, you're crazy successful if you fail seven times out of 10. So there's a whole baseball. That's a whole different facet of being successful in baseball, which is different from a really a lot of other sports. because you're going to fail 70 percent of the time as an offensive person.

[00:17:48] Brian: So you have to be able to, garner your confidence from something else because the game's not going to give it to you. It has to be from your training.

[00:17:56] Trisha: And so I guess when you're coaching others, Because you've been a coach as well, haven't you? How do you coach them in that? I mean, so you're coaching them in the, in what you say in the fundamentals. Um, I quite like that. And we'll come back to that, I think. Um, you're coaching them in the fundamentals.

[00:18:15] Trisha: How do you coach them in the, if it goes wrong?

[00:18:18] Brian: Great question. Again, I feel like I say this every time. Great question. Each time I really appreciate great, good, good question. Cause it makes me think, right. so what happens is when you're in coaching, number one, you have to make sure you understand who you're coaching.

[00:18:32] Brian: Because if the person is higher level where they have the commitment mentally that they want to be great.

[00:18:39] Brian: Okay, that's one faction, but most people are not at that point. Most people just want to have a good time. And most people want to enjoy the game and have fun and get some exercise. So you have to really delineate who you're talking to and speak to that person he or she because I coach both girls and boys.

[00:18:56] Brian: And give them what they need versus what I think they should have in case a crisis happens. So for the, the elite athlete, I will coach them one way and be able to let them know, Hey, strategically, here's where we're going to pivot, right? Or shift to, uh, when the crisis happens for the majority of people when I'm coaching, it's like, it's overwhelming them with encouragement because I know they're not going to be able to pivot.

[00:19:23] Brian: Or shift in the moment. But if I can encourage them so that they hear my voice, maybe they don't see themselves succeed a thousand times in a row, but if they hear my voice inside their head and they know that regardless of whether they, they muck up, regardless of whether they're successful or anywhere in between, they know I'm there for them.

[00:19:42] Brian: They know I believe in them and I don't care what happens. I'm going to love them before, during, and after, regardless of what the, what, uh, how well they do or how well they don't do.

[00:19:53] Trisha: Oh, we could go down

[00:19:55] Brian: I can see the wheels turning. I can see

[00:19:56] Brian: the

[00:19:56] Trisha: I know. I know we could go down there and in so many ways and unpack the role of a coach. But we won't because I really want to get onto, the next big shift, which, you know, is from me looking on, maybe there were other big shifts in, in your life too, but you moved from being a professional sports person in that way to working in the area of diversity.

[00:20:15] Trisha: And I mean, anybody would say that has got to be a major shift. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:20:21] Brian: so my rookie year in the major leagues. so my first year, so I'm not making any money yet. I had, I was in the under leagues or the minor leagues before for four years. I was a struggling college student before that. so I was in the city of Chicago here in the Midwest in the United States.

[00:20:39] Brian: My wife was in medical school at the time. and so we were kind of just trying to get by well During that year, I'm playing during the baseball season. We have a strike a labor strike and so now I'm all of a sudden out of work and it looks like it may go on for a long time. the World Series was canceled the last 2 months of the season was canceled.

[00:21:01] Brian: The off season was very off. And so this was a big crisis. There was a really, um, the ownership of baseball. We're really trying to break the union is what they were trying to do. So I was on the executive board of the union, so I was able to see all the inner workings of it, even though I was a rookie.

[00:21:18] Brian: So it was really a fascinating experience. So at that time, I was living in Chicago, as I mentioned. The only other person I knew in Chicago was my, football roommate. at Stanford in college was, a guy who's, uh, his father is black. His mother is white. His mother, a white woman, pale skin and bright red hair.

[00:21:37] Brian: And she was starting this diversity firm called, called the kaleidoscope group. And so no one knew what a diversity firm was back then in 1994, and no one knows what a diversity firm is in 2024, but that's okay. and so I didn't know anything about it, but she needed someone to transcribe flip charts.

[00:21:53] Brian: Things that were written on a, board or a chart or, and then transcribe that into a computer. And because I had a crush on Ms. Sanchez in middle school, I learned how to type there. And so I've been a very good typist ever since. And so I took that job in her living room. Her name was Bea Young.

[00:22:10] Brian: She's an icon in the diversity field. And she is a white woman worked with Malcolm X. Who is an icon of the civil rights movement, a great black leader here in America. Um, he and Martin Luther King, kind of the two icons. Malcolm X was more the forceful, wanted, at least early on in his life, he wanted, by any means necessary.

[00:22:31] Brian: Martin Luther King, on the other hand, was more the peaceful one and wanted to just do it in a non peaceful way. So two fascinating figures, but she, Bea Young again is her name. She worked with Malcolm X in the 1960s during the civil rights movement where America was able to earn civil rights for women and people of color and so forth.

[00:22:50] Brian: So I worked for her for that three or four month period. And she taught me the business, a lot of it, not all of it. And so I was fascinated with, you know, difference and helping people out and diversity, what that meant and, and equality and trying to, uh, equity, uh, and really trying to, to make the world a better place.

[00:23:09] Brian: And here was, here was my calling. I felt right away. So every off season in baseball an off season is about four months. So you have a lot of time to, you have a lot of time to train and do other things as you want, but you have about four months, every off season. So every off season, I would come back and work at the kaleidoscope group.

[00:23:26] Brian: And, I would learn something more. And so it took me a long time before I was able to, to be a facilitator for an educational session, uh, but it's okay. And so I've been working in diversity for almost 30 years now. Because of Bea Young because of the kaleidoscope group, which is the company both you and I worked for today.

[00:23:45] Brian: So it's really, it's really fun to be a part of that. Our COO, uh, Chris Georgas, who does a great job of running our company, the kaleidoscope group. I was there like a week before Chris got interviewed for the, for the job. So, so we have a unique connection there and that we've. the organization through a lot of times.

[00:24:02] Brian: And, you know, now we have 27 different languages spoken within our company. We're all over the world, as evidence of, of you, uh, and you're, you're a global team doing so much for us. It's been just a great thing for our organization as well. And we work with over a thousand different clients in every different industry you can imagine.

[00:24:20] Brian: So it's really fun to be a part of that, that history a little bit

[00:24:23] Trisha: and that makes perfect sense. The off season sort of an opportunity to earn a bit more money maybe, and, develop some skills, because so often that is a problem with, well, I think all professional sports people. And we've seen that with the Olympics that have just happened and people mentioning, you know, now they've got to, they're retiring and they've got to work out where they go next.

[00:24:44] Trisha: So often the end of a professional career in sports is a major shift and a major challenge. And so for you, I guess it was not so bad because you had this place to step into almost.

[00:24:58] Brian: Well, it's interesting you said because yes, it was just as bad for me and why? Because I didn't know who I was without sports.

[00:25:07] Brian: I didn't know what I had to offer. I had my degree. Right. I got my degree. I knew that was important,

[00:25:12] Trisha: You got a proper degree. It wasn't, it wasn't one of these ones they give the sports people as sort of a,

[00:25:17] Brian: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I was, um, and I had done, I tried to build relationships outside of sports so that I could move into something else. I tried to do everything you're supposed to do. And still it was a challenge because I didn't really know who I was without sports. Like I said, uh, without, you know, I've used my body to, uh, so I, I retired when I was 33, uh, from sports.

[00:25:38] Brian: And so that's a long time I've been using my body to make money, using my body to, I got to manage it. I got to do everything. My brain was important too, but now it's going to shift to where 90 percent is going to be my brain. Only 10 percent of my, my physical, ability or lack thereof, right. I got to build up some new muscles here.

[00:25:55] Brian: And so, um, so no, it was difficult and we had just had two newborn babies.

[00:26:00] Trisha: Oh wow

[00:26:01] Brian: My wife had rough pregnancy. So I was needed at home , to be there and , to coordinate that and to support her. Right. so there's a lot of stuff going on and I didn't, still did not know what I wanted to do. I knew that kaleidoscope was there.

[00:26:14] Brian: I knew diversity work was there, but I didn't want to fall into that. what I already knew. I wanted to expand, explore. I want to try other things, but it was difficult because the sports background, everybody says, Oh, well, I'm sure all your, you know, working with teammates and being able to handle adversity and all this stuff that'll translate.

[00:26:29] Brian: And that should go well. And you should work fine. And the corporate world after that, no, it doesn't work like that because you don't, cause I didn't have any experience. I had no work experience, so therefore I was not being seen by any company because I was living in Chicago. It's not where I grew up.

[00:26:45] Brian: People didn't know me there. I didn't have relationships as I had in other cities I played in, and so I had to really find something for me that was unique, which is a great experience, but it was very difficult.

[00:26:56] Trisha: Wow. Okay. Well, I think we can all understand and identify with that, even if we haven't been through it. So, yeah. I guess you, you referenced the learning that you had, but it's hard to bring to the corporate world. Once you found your place, did you find then, I mean, you spoke before about the fundamentals, as in practice and how you develop the fundamentals.

[00:27:20] Trisha: And to me, the moment you said it, which wasn't something I'd thought about in the same way, but I thought, Oh yeah, I can immediately see how that applies, you know, in a working situation. did you find you could bring the learning from, you know, the professional, athlete field into the, corporate world?

[00:27:38] Brian: Yeah, so it just took a little time, so I had to be patient. So patience was something I needed to learn too, right? Because no longer was I in something that was very familiar for me, right? No matter what company I went to, it was very unfamiliar for me. So, I guess, you know, you and I talk about privilege a lot, right?

[00:27:53] Brian: It's a favorite topic of mine. Where when I was in sports, I had a whole kinds of athletic privilege, right? Because I had trained so much. I familiarized myself with, I had relationships. I knew things were going on. Now I walk into a new corporate situation where I have zero privilege. I don't know where I'm going.

[00:28:08] Brian: I don't know where the bathroom is. I don't know where the. HR is I don't know what happens, what their processes and procedures are. And so what I had to be patient with is hopefully someone will help me out or hopefully over time I'll learn stuff. And so hopefully somebody will use their privilege to help me out.

[00:28:24] Brian: And, and oftentimes that would happen eventually. It didn't, didn't happen always overnight. Because a lot of times in corporate America, I found there wasn't this team atmosphere. There was very much, uh, silos where people are kind of looking out for themselves and doing what they need to do. So I had to learn that too.

[00:28:38] Brian: But once I learned that, once I kind of got accustomed, once I paid my dues a little bit, once I put some time and effort into it, Then I was able to bring in all the skills that I used in sports. Then I was able to shoot, you know, to be able to really build relationships. Then I was able to overcome adversity and really use my teammates and look for my teammates and, and not feel like it all has to be me.

[00:28:59] Brian: But it was later, I had to just get my foot in the door. I had to go experience something. I had to be new. I had to be awkward. I had to learn. And then once I got through that initial phase, I was able to bring in all the other stuff that that really, came from my athletic career, which

[00:29:13] Brian: is great.

[00:29:13] Trisha: And you referenced your wife and little babies before, and you mentioned she was a med student a bit earlier back. you've told me about them before. Can you tell us a little bit about them?

[00:29:23] Brian: Oh, yeah. Thank you. so she has been a physician all these years and, is now working with, a hospital where she creates a new program. So she. is a physiatrist. So not a psychologist, but a physiatrist. So it's physical medicine and rehabilitation. And what that means is, we go to an orthopedic surgeon to have to fix our shoulder, fix our elbow, fix, fix our appendages, right?

[00:29:46] Brian: Well, she's the one that keeps you from going to surgery. and try to keep you from going to surgery. So let's put a, let's put a strategy together, try to solve your problem without having surgery. But if you do have to have surgery, she's the one that designs the rehab, right? No one likes the rehab after your surgery, but she's the one that designs and manages that rehabilitation after surgery.

[00:30:07] Brian: So it's not only where your, surgery really take place and take hold, but you'll be better than you ever were before. Hopefully if you follow. the program that she put out for it. She also works with a lot of brain injuries. So a lot of a lot of car accidents, automobile accidents, a lot of brain injuries.

[00:30:23] Brian: So she's dealing with a lot of folks that are dealing with their lives changing in an instance. If they stepped off the curb and got hit by a car, the brain injury will not heal. You will be different than you were five minutes ago for the rest of your life. And so she works with them a lot, as to how to get to know yourself again and how to know the new you, not keep yearning for what you used to be, but learning to love the person that you are.

[00:30:49] Brian: so that's, that's my wife. Uh, she also ran track at Stanford university with me, or not with me, but we were at school the same time. So she ran track there.

[00:30:57] Trisha: Is that

[00:30:57] Trisha: where you met her?

[00:30:58] Brian: no, we met before sport. We met the first day of school in our dorm. Her roommate and my roommate knew each other.

[00:31:06] Brian: So we got together hung out for a couple hours and she walked away and I was like, yeah, that's the one I'm going to marry.

[00:31:11] Brian: I told my roommate that.

[00:31:13] Trisha: Wow.

[00:31:14] Brian: So he was like, oh, yeah, whatever. Sure. Sure. And so it took a little while to convince that she's a African American woman. She's black. And so we have an interracial marriage. And so it took her a while to realize that, Hey, you need to give this white guy a chance. You need to, uh, you need to consider that a little bit.

[00:31:30] Brian: So she had never dated a white guy before. So, it was new for her, but over time, I broke her down and, and, uh, we've been together almost 30 years now,

[00:31:39] Trisha: wow. Congratulations.

[00:31:40] Brian: Yeah. Thank you. So, uh, my kids, my son is playing baseball at the college level. he's enjoying that quite a bit. He has, A certificate already earned from junior college in culinary arts.

[00:31:52] Brian: And now he's working on his business administration degree. so I don't know if he wants to open a restaurant at some point, but he's trying to get all those skills together and, and also enjoying, enjoying baseball at the same time. my daughter, was a volleyball and basketball player in high school.

[00:32:07] Brian: And in college, she, really got into her singing. So she, she got, connected with the church and really enjoyed that she just graduated from college this year, at a big school here in Michigan called Michigan state university. And, she was a, nutritional science, major.

[00:32:21] Brian: And now she wants to go to medical school and to be a physician like my wife. So yeah, those are, that's my family. Thank you for asking.

[00:32:28] Trisha: A lot of the sports connection coming through

[00:32:31] Brian: Yeah. and, the medical and the medical connection the medical

[00:32:34] Trisha: as well

[00:32:35] Brian: And honestly, we don't, we have no idea how that happened because we didn't push either one on, on them. There was not some, they had to do something. They couldn't just do nothing, but Eventually, they all kind of came around ironically to what we used to do, which was a surprise to us because, we cheered and we loved everything that they did as kids.

[00:32:53] Brian: And it just, it just happened to work out that way.

[00:32:55] Trisha: That's lovely. And I guess too, as you are doing the diversity work that it must, you know, motivate you in lots of ways as you think about your kids stepping into a workplace. So how can people follow up with you, Brian, if they want to learn more, if they want to follow you?

[00:33:11] Trisha: Uh, and I believe. There's some things you could share with people so that if they want to learn more, they can do that. I know you have a podcast, but I only just recently discovered, listeners, that Brian has been working on a book, so that is exciting to me as well. So tell us a little bit about those and tell me about how people can follow up with you.

[00:33:30] Brian: Sure. so I'm on Facebook. I can be reached on Facebook. Brian Johnson in Detroit Michigan is where I am. So that usually is where people can find me. but yes, I, I'm also doing a podcast, which is interesting. it's called talent chasing. So it's all about business talent and or sports talent.

[00:33:46] Brian: So we get people on there to talk about both their sports. experience and their business experience and how they, coincide with each other. it's called Talent Chasing it. And I have two partners that work with me. Actually, they came to get me through linked in of all places.

[00:34:00] Trisha: Yay, LinkedIn!

[00:34:01] Trisha: And people can connect with you there too.

[00:34:03] Brian: yes, yes. Through linked in is a great way to find me as well.

[00:34:06] Brian: But my partner, two partners, one is in Amsterdam and the other one is in Portugal. And so the three of us have our podcast and we have a new episode out every Wednesday. And, we have a really good time together. And we try to kind of bring in the international flavor. We've had a bunch of folks from the US but we've also had a French artist who used to play basketball.

[00:34:26] Brian: We've had, , a couple of footballers from, real footballers right out there. Cause American football should not be called football. You all have it right out there and

[00:34:33] Trisha: No, no, no, No, no, no, No, no, no, Australia and New Zealand call it soccer too.

[00:34:38] Brian: Oh! Do hey really? I didn't

[00:34:39] Trisha: they do. they do. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:42] Trisha: Australia Australia has four different types of football, but that, that could be another podcast altogether.

[00:34:49] Brian: thank you for the for teaching me that. So yeah, so a lot of different places to find me. I'm also writing a book, but it's not quite ready yet, but it will be about my, about my baseball career, with every chapter being a different city. But be very relatable to anybody that loves baseball or anybody who hates baseball and never doesn't know anything about baseball really doesn't matter.

[00:35:08] Brian: It's just a story that happens to be based around

[00:35:12] Trisha: The life of a baseball player. Yeah, fantastic. I feel like there's heaps more we could have unpacked here, but I'm conscious of the time. And so I'm suspecting that we may need to have another session. Kaleidoscope group is one of my favorite clients that I work with, and, do a specific type of training with kaleidoscope group, which is different to some of my other clients, but there's so much there that we could unpack about what are the fundamentals.

[00:35:36] Trisha: How do we teach people how to think with them? So I think we may have to come back and discuss that further, because I'm suspecting that some of the people listening to this will be going, you could have asked them about, because they're very intelligent people, I think, and they will know that at this point, I normally finish, but this from the One of the things I'm trying at the moment is some, some closing questions.

[00:35:59] Trisha: Uh, and so I've got some questions for you, Brian. What advice would you give to someone who's going to follow in your footsteps?

[00:36:07] Brian: Ooh. Um, I would say be humble. Realize it's not going to go well all the time. And that's okay. That's part of the fun of it. And to appreciate the people who are around you and work your tail off. That's what I would say.

[00:36:22] Trisha: Love that. Thank you. And as you look at your life and the people that you've worked with, both colleagues and clients and your family and community, as you look at the future, what are you hoping for?

[00:36:35] Brian: I'm hoping for, less hate. I'm humbling for a much more inclusive world. We can really appreciate one another. I don't like hate. I will fight hate any place, any time, and that has been my passion through my life. I think being in diversity so long is that really, that's what we're doing. We're trying to bring people together.

[00:36:57] Brian: And if you if if hate wants to fight we'll fight if hate just wants to learn more and educate themselves, we can do that. But it's important that we fight for kindness, and we fight for love and compassion. And so I, I hope for a world that will be better at that than we are currently.

[00:37:15] Trisha: Thank you so much, Brian. I really appreciate that. And thank you to our listeners. And please make sure that you have pushed that follow or subscribe button on your podcast app so that you can be informed of the next episode of The Shift.