[00:00:00] Andrew Brown: There's 4 or 5 percent if the makeup of women in construction, or at least, out in the field, and it's just it's mind boggling because the opportunities are there for them as long as we provide support and they feel comfortable and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site.

[00:00:24] Andrew Brown: And I'm not going to go into that, but. To make them feel comfortable, to make them feel supported. There are women that I know on LinkedIn that I'm good friends with that doing amazing work, and they're inspiring others and other women to get into the trades. But again, that is too, that's.

[00:00:42] Andrew Brown: Looked upon is that women, are not there. The feeling of the women are not supported in that we need to do a better job to support women, make them feel comfortable.[00:01:00]

[00:01:03] Andrew Brown: Welcome to the round

[00:01:04] Eric Goranson: the house show. This is where we help you get the most out of your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us today. By the way, this episode is brought to you by RootQuencher and RootQuencher. com. If you've got trees, shrubs, bushes, and you're wasting water when you're watering, or you want to cut it back, check out RootQuencher.

[00:01:22] Eric Goranson: com. Those guys have spikes that put water right into the roots and not all over the top where it runs down the hill and doesn't end up where you want it to. If you want to save money, go to RootQuencher. com. Today, we are going to talk about something that is this massive tidal wave. That only a handful of people are talking about.

[00:01:41] Eric Goranson: And we've got Andrew Brown here from tool fetch, but we're talking the trades today. Brother. Thanks for coming on around the house today,

[00:01:49] Andrew Brown: Eric. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it,

[00:01:52] Eric Goranson: man. This is such a big deal and I don't think we can talk about it enough because I tell you what, I can't tell you how many times I'm [00:02:00] seeing in schools and high school specifically right now, they've taken all the trades, right?

[00:02:05] Eric Goranson: They've removed them completely. Out of so many programs, kids get forced to go to college cause it's the right thing to do. And after spending a hundred grand in a college education. They get out and say, Hey, I'm going to go join the electrical union, or I'm going to go drive the Mason union. And they get into the trades and now they've got a hundred thousand dollar bill that they really didn't need to have.

[00:02:29] Andrew Brown: It's

[00:02:29] Eric Goranson: crazy. What's your take on this?

[00:02:31] Andrew Brown: It's happening all over and you understand why there is this skilled trades cap, right? Is this 40 percent of. Men and women retiring or are at the retirement age in the next five or 10 years that are leaving the industry, leaving their trade. And there's a lot of people who are not coming in.

[00:02:51] Andrew Brown: There's a not enough. So there's seven to eight trades people leaving. There's one or two maybe coming in. And it's really what's [00:03:00] being pushed to the younger individuals. What's the message that's being pushed? And it's interesting when the younger generation, when they're sitting down before they sign on that data line for college, is there a guidance counselor saying, there's another opportunity.

[00:03:16] Andrew Brown: There's maybe a skilled trades path, and I don't feel that's being spoken about because I do feel that teachers and guidance counselors are the best marketers for college. And if kids have the right information, maybe they'll consider a skilled trades path instead of spending 100, 000 dollars.

[00:03:36] Andrew Brown: Not every school, but around 100, 000 dollars. Go to trade school and spend less amount of money and for a less amount of time, and you could be working in an apprenticeship and making money at the same time. It is incredible. And

[00:03:52] Eric Goranson: I call it the big business of the college education and the best sales people right now seem to be the high school [00:04:00] teachers and guidance counselors these days.

[00:04:01] Eric Goranson: And I think they're doing such a disservice. And in another show, a couple of years ago, I brought up the concept that I've been waving the flag for a while is that, if you and I go down and get a car loan and you and I walk down or get a house loan and get a mortgage. We have to prove a business plan on how we're going to pay that back.

[00:04:22] Eric Goranson: So I would love to see that happen with a college education where, okay, I'm applying to go to college and I wish they would ask a couple of questions and say, all right, when you get out, what's the game plan for your career? Because there's so many people going out and getting what I'm going to, and I'm not going to go after a certain group here, but what I call generally junk degrees, cause I see them working at Starbucks and in other places after they've spent this stuff.

[00:04:50] Eric Goranson: I wish they could actually sit there and say, Hey, what's the game plan to pay this back and maybe start a discussion of maybe this isn't for me and maybe I should get into the [00:05:00] trades where I can actually be much better off and live a more comfortable lifestyle outside of my work environment.

[00:05:06] Andrew Brown: Yeah. And I can attest to this because I went to college for four years and I was more confused when I came out of school.

[00:05:13] Andrew Brown: Then when I was in school, I started off as a programmer. I was doing C on the weekends and looking at myself and looking for people around me. It's what are they doing? Why am I taking advanced calculus? Then I went into business. Then I might've been finance. Then I went into IT. And then I had this life changing event on 9 11, which put me in a different path for selling tools to the skilled trades.

[00:05:39] Andrew Brown: And it's just. I feel like sometimes you just don't get all the answers and you're just going from major to major and there are a lot of individuals, especially friends. Who came out of school and not happy with what they're doing. They're just not happy or they switch completely and they do something completely different, but you've already put in a [00:06:00] tremendous amount of investment into your education, but you're going to something different.

[00:06:03] Andrew Brown: And I see that happening often.

[00:06:07] Eric Goranson: It is. It's crazy. And. And it's, I think we've got to really start with younger kids of getting them in school, using their hands on stuff and teaching some common sense stuff because, those woodshop days really figured out if you were good at working your hands and if there was a passion there, because I know so many people in doing what you and I do.

[00:06:28] Eric Goranson: That I go back and, I'm in my early fifties, but I go back and say, when did you figure out, oh, it was woodshop because I loved what I was doing. I was creating something or it was the mechanic shop or whatever metal shop welding, whatever that was back in, in that middle school slash high school age that we've just yanked that out of the schools and made those things, computer labs or whatever else.

[00:06:51] Eric Goranson: But, All those things are needed, but we've just created this huge skills gap, which is now hurting the public moving forward. It's great if you're going to go [00:07:00] into the trades, because as as an electrician, you can go out and make six figures and work anywhere in the country. But Mr. And Mrs.

[00:07:07] Eric Goranson: Homeowner that have to hire the electrician go, wow, why is that so expensive?

[00:07:13] Andrew Brown: Where are all the shop classes? Where did they go? What happened? I don't remember taking a shop class. I'm not too far behind you, but I don't know if you're taking a shop class and if a kid has a mechanical build ability or a technical spark, maybe that gets defined in a shop class that they wouldn't have noticed unless they took the shop class, but the shop class is not there.

[00:07:37] Andrew Brown: Maybe they just go to college and they do something else. So I'm all for bringing shop classes back into schools on top of, if you don't go into a skilled trade, you can use those skills, their lifelong skills, which you can apply to stuff around your house. Because I know people that won't touch anything, right?

[00:07:56] Andrew Brown: They're not, I'm not touching anything. Look, there's something to be said [00:08:00] about something electrical and you just don't really know. And then you bring in an electrician. There's such opportunities in the skill trades. In all these different areas. And if you apply yourself and you ride that ladder of success by attaching yourself to people who have been there and done that through mentorship, it's just unbelievable what's available today in this window of time.

[00:08:27] Andrew Brown: You'll never

[00:08:27] Eric Goranson: be without work, right? You'll never be without work because I tell you what, with our massive skills gap, that there is no quick fix to this. It's going to be a generational fix, right? We can't fix this tomorrow. You know what I mean? Because we're, we just have so many people that we don't have the programs even out there available to fix it, let alone the people to fill those programs.

[00:08:50] Eric Goranson: And if you're a kid right now and you're, let's say if you're a parent, listen to this show right now, or a grandparent, this is something that should be explored because I tell you [00:09:00] what, you can go out and be an electrician. And in a few years, You're making more than the school teachers are

[00:09:06] Andrew Brown: with less debt, with a

[00:09:07] Eric Goranson: lot less, with a lot less

[00:09:11] Andrew Brown: debt and it's a shorter period of time, right?

[00:09:14] Andrew Brown: So you spend 4 years, maybe 5 years in college. You're ahead of the game. With less debt and not just in volume. And then, I always say, eventually maybe you buy a home, you get a mortgage, that's more debt, and you just can't get out of it. So it's a great opportunity for someone who really wants to be in go that path.

[00:09:33] Eric Goranson: Andrew, there are some great groups out there as well. There, there are some small programs out there. Like we have here in my Portland metro area, where I'm at, we have a group out in forest grove where they teach building houses to kids. And every school year they frame a house and then the next school year, they finish it, sell it to refund the program again.

[00:09:56] Eric Goranson: And they call it the Viking house. Cause it's the Vikings that's the school [00:10:00] mascot, but every couple of years, they're building a home. That is a beautiful model. We have a forestry program down here that is in a little town called sweet home out here, which is just the base of the Cascade mountains, where they've had a guy that's been doing YouTube videos, manly jobs, Blake Manley.

[00:10:15] Eric Goranson: You just left that school district, but there's like a hundred kids in this little town on this forestry program. And I'm out there doing a news story on them for my TV show. And I see these high school kids wearing climbing gear to go climb electrical poles. So they know how to climb trees and be alignment or work in forestry.

[00:10:34] Eric Goranson: And I'm like, I've never seen climbing gear. And like pole climbing gear in a high school and the kids are walking across to the sports field over there where they put a bunch of poles in and they're out there getting ready to go to class and they've got, what I thought was cool is they get logs donated.

[00:10:51] Eric Goranson: So the lumber class cuts it up into a sawmill, they get it ready and that would now goes to the wood [00:11:00] shop class. And so they are self funding themselves with that. They sell some of it and now kids that are low end can go get getting into the shop class without any overhead. So there's ways to do it.

[00:11:11] Eric Goranson: It's not that hard.

[00:11:13] Andrew Brown: It isn't an exposing kids like that is truly amazing and getting real hands on experience. That eventually they can go into a trade or be a mind man or an attrition or another trade. These are things that need to be put in and thought of and thinking outside the box.

[00:11:32] Andrew Brown: Because it's not working. We're getting better. We're making an impact through your podcast, your TV shows, right? Through my messaging, through videos and other people's podcasts. We're doing, everyone's doing their piece. But we need more of an impact overall, whether it's the administration.

[00:11:51] Andrew Brown: And it's interesting when you talk about what we want to do as a country, we want to fix up our infrastructure where our [00:12:00] infrastructure has a C minus rating. C minus rating. How do you get to an A plus if no one wants the job? What are we doing in that place? Who are you going to get to do the job?

[00:12:09] Andrew Brown: It's wonderful. You want to spend money on buildings and bridges and tunnels and roads and everything in between. That's wonderful. Do you need people to do the job? And you need to work on the messaging side and you need to get to the younger generation to be interested. In the trades, because I think they have a depiction or a thought or an old adage that they keep hearing.

[00:12:29] Andrew Brown: Oh, it's low wage. Oh it's dirty. Oh, it's, it's plan B for the bad kids. It's how, it's just, it's all through messaging. And I think people just need the right information. And it also really starts in our household too, what parents are speaking to kids about, and it's just, it's an all hands on deck effort.

[00:12:48] Eric Goranson: I want to address Andrew the dirty part of it, because it's such a myth. I know plumbers out there that for the last 20 years, all they've done is go out and build new homes and [00:13:00] they're out there, outdoors, they're outdoor people. They're out there, plumbing up new houses.

[00:13:06] Eric Goranson: They're not getting wet. They're not playing with sewage. They're out there just putting homes together and building homes. And I know electricians that work out here at Intel and they're in a clean room, wiring up stuff. Dressed in a white suit jacket, like any other tech worker doing wiring.

[00:13:21] Eric Goranson: So you can also be a drain person and get in there and get dirty every day if you want to. So really you're in control as the student of where you want to go. Because the jobs are there, right?

[00:13:35] Andrew Brown: The opportunities are there. But again, this goes back to people thinking it's just a guy in a wheelbarrow pushing this old dusty wheelbarrow on a job site.

[00:13:43] Andrew Brown: That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of different options and paths that you can take and you can figure out if you want to be a welder, an electrician, a plumber, a carpenter, and so on. But it goes back to that old outage of, you think of skilled trades, you think of dirty [00:14:00] hands, dirty fingernails and working with your hands and that seems to always be looked down upon.

[00:14:05] Andrew Brown: I don't really understand where that kind of shifted. It just didn't happen just at 1 moment in time. It just slowly started getting to this point where people just look at it and they say, nah, that's not for me.

[00:14:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And I think part of that has been that it goes back into schools, it really does.

[00:14:23] Eric Goranson: That at one point we lost respect for the craftsperson out there. And I think that transferred into our schools because people weren't going to college. I saw something happen years ago here. It's probably seven or eight years ago at a trade event where it was skills trade day at a high school.

[00:14:38] Eric Goranson: And the principal sits there to the plumber and goes, All right, kids. So we got the plumber coming up next to talk to you. If you don't do your schoolwork you could be a plumber. And the plumber walks out and goes, Hey, by the way you got to see my truck out front. I actually make more than your principal does every year.

[00:14:53] Eric Goranson: So, if you don't do your stuff you could be a high school principal dealing with you kids every day.

[00:14:58] Andrew Brown: Wow. That is a great response. [00:15:00] It

[00:15:00] Eric Goranson: was just shots fired, but that is just part of the root of the problem.

[00:15:04] Andrew Brown: Yes. Yes. There is that feeling. But when you also, when you tell, like you said, you tell someone you're a plumber or an electrician.

[00:15:11] Andrew Brown: Some people look at you like, huh, it's just that kind of, that you could sense that it's oh okay. But they don't understand that everything, they do, everything in your house, your sink, your shower, your dishwasher, your heat, your, ac, everything is controlled and managed. And fixed by the people in the skilled trades.

[00:15:32] Andrew Brown: And if they disappear, they disappeared tomorrow, you'd be in a really bad spot. And you can't take for granted the people that provide the most value. And on top of it, keep our economy going.

[00:15:45] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that's going to be one of the biggest things because right now, we're seeing such a huge.

[00:15:51] Eric Goranson: Skills gap. Looking forward, it's growing quickly. It's not getting smaller, even though people like you are out there waving the flag, it's, [00:16:00] this is a tidal wave that's coming at us. It's just unaddressed by many people out there. And there's a lot of great people talking about it. Don't get me wrong.

[00:16:07] Eric Goranson: The Mike Rose of the world and in those people out there that are also waving the flag, trying to do what they can. But it's, it's a five gallon bucket in the Pacific ocean. Of what we need to do out there. And one of the secrets, I think it's amazing out there too, is that it, it's not addressed is the women in the trades is so amazing right now, seeing.

[00:16:31] Eric Goranson: How that has shifted so much recently.

[00:16:34] Andrew Brown: There's four or five percent if the makeup of women in construction or at least, you know out in the field And it's just it's mind boggling because the opportunities are there for them as long as we provide support And they feel comfortable and there's things that need to be addressed on the job site and i'm not going to go into that but To make them feel comfortable, to make them feel supported.

[00:16:57] Andrew Brown: There are women that I know on [00:17:00] LinkedIn that I'm good friends with that doing amazing work, and they're inspiring others and other women to get into the trades. But again, that is too, that's. Looked upon is that women, are not the feeling of the women are not supported in that we need to do a better job to support women, make them feel comfortable, give them the skills that they need to do.

[00:17:22] Andrew Brown: But that's almost untapped. Imagine if you can imagine if that was, you bumped it up to 20 percent of, our women.

[00:17:31] Eric Goranson: And the funny part of this is too, is that we're starting to see not only the funny part, but the good thing that's happening now is you're starting to see work where companies address it.

[00:17:40] Eric Goranson: You've got companies out there that are making job site gear for women. That's not just a small men's piece. You've got the people like keen utility out there that are making work boots that actually fit women. And there's a lot of other companies similar to that, and this isn't a commercial for them, but we're starting to see that change which.

[00:17:59] Eric Goranson: Brings more [00:18:00] opportunity for women out there because, I'm not going to speak for women in this at all, but the last thing they need to see out there is pink vests and pink clothes and stuff like that. They want to be treated as equals and we're making progress, but we've got to do better.

[00:18:14] Andrew Brown: Yes.

[00:18:15] Andrew Brown: And that's just a combined effort. And that's just, that's a work in progress. And then it's just piece by piece and slowly changing that old adage over. It's just, it's not 1 thing that's going to make it work. But what you said, these little things all help and all, it all comes together and we'll get us to that, that next step of that next level.

[00:18:40] Eric Goranson: And by the way, ladies, here's another little tip in secret for you out there. If you look at people in the trades out there in the skilled trades, whether you're a tile setter, a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, HVAC tech. If you get into the trades and open up a social media channel, the showing what you do every day.

[00:18:58] Eric Goranson: They're making more than most of the [00:19:00] guys are that have been there for 25 years.

[00:19:04] Andrew Brown: Exactly.

[00:19:04] Eric Goranson: They're doing well. Yes.

[00:19:06] Andrew Brown: Yes, they are. Yes, they are. Now, showcasing your work is the most important thing. What you do inspires others. You don't realize that. And especially on social media, even though you don't get a like or a comment, the people watching.

[00:19:20] Andrew Brown: That's just inspiring and more women were out there showcasing what they were doing. More women would eventually be inspired and say, wow, I can do that. And that's just, it's amazing to see that and it's inspirational.

[00:19:34] Eric Goranson: And some of the ones that inspired me out there, there's Shannon who goes by that tile chick on social media.

[00:19:40] Eric Goranson: And people go, Oh, women can't, she is like four foot 11 and out there carrying around big pieces of large format tile and doing the job that a lot of guys can't and doing a wonderfully skilled job doing it. So a lot of those things that people go, Oh, they just can't [00:20:00] know. Luckily, those days are getting over.

[00:20:03] Andrew Brown: Yeah, I watch sometimes I watch Barbie, the welder. I don't know if you're familiar with that. She's

[00:20:08] Eric Goranson: amazing. I'm just like, I'm just

[00:20:10] Andrew Brown: watching these sculptures. I'm like, how do you do that? There's such a talent and it's just that she's inspired so many people behind that. I actually, I did a video of it because I was just showcasing what she did and it was just the outpour of the comments, the supporters.

[00:20:28] Andrew Brown: That's what you need. Yeah.

[00:20:31] Eric Goranson: Yeah. There's a program here in Oregon that I've been supportive of for a long time since it's beginning and it's a girls build. And so Katie Hughes goes out and does camps all year round for girls from eight to 13, and they bring the trades in. So they're going to show them there's eight year old kids out there, little girls.

[00:20:53] Eric Goranson: Bending sheet metal, creating duct work there. They're doing electrical projects. They're building stuff. And we're not [00:21:00] talking just Hey, we're going to do the home depot birdhouse, but they're actually out there building stuff. And they do a trades camp for a week. It gets sold out in hours.

[00:21:08] Eric Goranson: She actually, a lot of times has to do the signups at like midnight on a Tuesday. Just so people can have an opportunity to get in there because. It just fills up so quickly.

[00:21:18] Andrew Brown: Yeah. I also see there's a woman by the name of Jamie McMillan. She's mostly on LinkedIn. She's up in Canada. She's an iron worker and she's so inspirational just watching.

[00:21:28] Andrew Brown: Cause she works with young kids and showing them what they can do. And it's making an impact. It's making a huge impact again. It's just watching it. It's just, it's amazing.

[00:21:42] Eric Goranson: And we have to give a shout out to some of the guys out there, like our buddy, Roger Wakefield, Rogers out there just trying to promote the trades as, as much as he can out there.

[00:21:51] Eric Goranson: And if there's he's a, an up and coming guy that is really doing well. But as far as getting out there and really trying to promote the trades and plumbing in [00:22:00] specific with him, he talk about a guy that created his own plumbing company and turned it into such a massive big thing. And again, he's a guy that just went out and said, Hey, I'm going to do this and has done really well doing it.

[00:22:14] Andrew Brown: It's interesting you say that because I'm a big I have a lot of respect for Roger Wakefield. And actually we'll be on his podcast a little bit later in the year. And he's just, I've seen him grown, grow from 20, 000 followers on YouTube to five or 600, 000. He's just amazing. He showed

[00:22:34] Eric Goranson: up five years ago before you got going in one of my seminars at the national association of home builders.

[00:22:41] Eric Goranson: And I was down at the design and construction week and he was an audience member and I just, he stuck out to me. And I'm like, This cat's got something different going on here. And I went over and started talking to him and we've been friends during COVID, I had to go down to Dallas. To pick up our puppy from our old next door neighbor who had their dog, had puppies, and this was [00:23:00] smack dab in the middle of COVID you could get on a plane, but like when I stayed in downtown Dallas, I was the only person in the hotel, my wife and I were, we had the whole hotel to ourself, but we went up and did videos with Roger in his place up at there at at green plumbing.

[00:23:14] Eric Goranson: And it was a lot of fun in the early days. That was what, four years, three years ago. So again, it's just so fun to watch people like that grow. And he's making an impact as well, like you said, and and he's just getting started in this world.

[00:23:27] Andrew Brown: It shows what you can do above and beyond just being someone in the trades and giving back.

[00:23:34] Andrew Brown: And he gives back to obviously shows you how to build your plumbing business and he's supportive of the trades, but it's just shows that you can be a business owner. You can be on social media, you can help others. You could be inspirational and he's just, he's your prime example of what success looks like in the trades.

[00:23:52] Eric Goranson: And talk about taking a skilled trade and then just expanding it. And, making it 20 times what it was, he just keeps [00:24:00] getting bigger and bigger. And I think there's going to be a lot of great things coming from him in the future. And we need about, about a hundred more of those out there to make this happen.

[00:24:09] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we do. We do, keep putting out the messaging and keep keep making an impact and keep trying to change the old messaging about the skilled trades. And we'll get there. Confident. We

[00:24:22] Eric Goranson: will. So what's your, what is your take on how do we get this started? How do we get this cruise ship turned around in this little canal?

[00:24:29] Eric Goranson: Because it's at times it seems like we got about a 42 point turn to get this thing turned around where we're actually going to start making headway and gain on this instead of losing ground. Because. I can name and I could go to any electrical company in my city right now and say, Hey, I'm a licensed electrician.

[00:24:47] Eric Goranson: If I was, I'm looking for a job and they'd ask me when do I start?

[00:24:53] Andrew Brown: Yeah, we're coming ahead, right? We're getting to the breaking point, right? Or if we're not there, we're going to be there very soon. And [00:25:00] exactly. We need to it. There's no one thing that's going to say, snap of a finger. Oh, my God, they have endless amounts of people.

[00:25:08] Andrew Brown: You could maybe do that with women and get more women involved. You can do that on the message. Look, we still need to get everyone else on board. I again, this goes back to the messaging in schools. We need to guidance counselors need to be sitting down with kids and laying down the options, not just college and I am a supporter of college, but maybe it's, I want

[00:25:30] Eric Goranson: my doctor to go to college, right?

[00:25:32] Eric Goranson: I want my surgeon to have the best degree known to mankind. But I just don't think my plumber needs that humanities degree.

[00:25:39] Andrew Brown: But when I play the game of life, if you've ever played that as a kid, I'd say the updated version and the updated version was you can have a career path or a college path.

[00:25:49] Andrew Brown: And it says in the instructions that you're more likely to make more money with a college degree versus. Someone with just a career. And it's funny, there was [00:26:00] no plumber, there was no electrician, there was no welder in that whole like set to talk about. I was like, Oh my God. I was like the game of life is telling you that.

[00:26:10] Andrew Brown: And that kids are playing that. And teachers are saying that your parents are saying that it just goes on and on. So. We need to reverse that and try that and work on that. And that just is, it goes back to messaging, social media, putting out more information about the trades, the administration getting up, and there's a lot of things that we need to do.

[00:26:30] Andrew Brown: I don't think there is 1, but we all need to identify that this is a much bigger problem than we think it is. And it will in the next couple of years, if we don't, at least, it's like moving this big ship with a little rudder and you're slowly turning it and we need to turn it quick.

[00:26:48] Andrew Brown: But it's just a combined effort across the board with everybody.

[00:26:52] Eric Goranson: I hate to get government involved, but is it going to take the unions and the trades people out there? To get involved with, [00:27:00] policy makers that say, Hey, as part of a school curriculum and as part of the guidance counselor program, they need to be giving all the options, just not some of them.

[00:27:11] Andrew Brown: Yeah. Maybe look, maybe an option is trade school. It's free. I don't know. I'm just throwing things out there. I don't know if that's even possible, just throwing things out there that maybe that's an option.

[00:27:21] Eric Goranson: It is with the unions, right? You pay your union dues and you're become a apprentice.

[00:27:26] Eric Goranson: You can go through that whole electrical program in the unions without paying a bunch of money. You're buying some tools, but really. That option's out there already in a way.

[00:27:36] Andrew Brown: Yeah. Look that's an option, but I am all for suggestions out there of how to, close this gap and to make things better again.

[00:27:44] Andrew Brown: It just goes back to this. It's not just one thing that's just going to make this all of a sudden overnight, change. It's always so much that technology chat, GGP, chat, GPT, and automation. A robot, you can't do that. This is not going to happen. [00:28:00] You still need the, the hands on work for the people who do that work.

[00:28:05] Andrew Brown: You still need someone to get in there and weld and do the electrical work. It's just not there yet. So we need to find, a better solution, until

[00:28:17] Eric Goranson: We're Decades and decades away from having a robot to get underneath the sink in someone's house and go, what's wrong here.

[00:28:25] Eric Goranson: What did the last homeowner do to make this mistake? That's probably not in my lifetime. You know what I mean? It's just not going to happen. And so, you might see in 20 years, a robot hanging drywall on somebody's large commercial project, where it's going to be drywall and over every electrical circuit and every outlet and every sprinkler said something.

[00:28:44] Eric Goranson: But. You're not going to see that happen in construction anytime soon. And if we've noticed, it's not the blue collar jobs we're losing to AI. It's the white collar jobs, let's be honest.

[00:28:56] Andrew Brown: AI is coming for your white collar job. Yeah, it [00:29:00] can't replace. And there was a, there was an interesting on LinkedIn, or it went viral of this billboard, of chat GTP, and it can't replace, people in the trades.

[00:29:10] Andrew Brown: And I was like, yeah that's true. And, it's it's a secure profession and look, even during a downturn and a recession, there's still work that needs to be done around a house. People still need to fix stuff around their house, an electrician, a plumber, a welder, there's still stuff that needs to be done.

[00:29:30] Andrew Brown: And it's to some degree, let's

[00:29:32] Eric Goranson: attack that myth for a minute, because you're right. Oh construction is, oh, it's so cyclical. You're right. It is. But that's the beauty of it. I've been in this industry for 30 years in the construction interior design, specializing in kitchen and bath work.

[00:29:47] Eric Goranson: And yes, there are some years that new construction just blown up. But it never lifts because that energy ends up going over to remodeling. Like we're seeing right now, maybe new construction, how it's, starts her down [00:30:00] right around the corner. People go, wow, I'm not moving better. Fix my house.

[00:30:06] Andrew Brown: There's always, and it's always there. There are always people say that even in, in my local area, with my friends, who do you know, I had to do a kitchen, I had to do a project. Everybody's talking behind the scenes and getting referrals. And asking who's the right person. And if you are reliable, you show up, you have competitive pricing, you do good work, you're going to do extremely well because people are going to pass your name around and there's tremendous opportunity there.

[00:30:36] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I know of a, I know of a contractor right now that's really good in my area. Cause I used to work with him as his designer and him and I worked together a lot. He's a year out right now, booked out. If you want it, if you came in with a million dollars and said, I got a remodel, he's like end of the line.

[00:30:53] Eric Goranson: End of the line.

[00:30:54] Andrew Brown: Yeah.

[00:30:54] Eric Goranson: I was, I got something interesting here. And this is again, comes down to that skills where it was something I [00:31:00] did yesterday, and this will be coming up on a future episode of my television show. This blew my mind. I was in this, I drove past this place, found it. And it's a little company here in Portland that does this nationally.

[00:31:12] Eric Goranson: Golden West billiards. They make pool tables. I was shocked at this. I have not been in a building in my lifetime that had this many skilled people doing this level of artisan work. They're handcrafting lions on the legs of the pool tables. And that kind of just insane stuff. They had a guy on this big industrial lathe doing 12 inch round legs.

[00:31:43] Eric Goranson: And all he does is sit there for eight hours a day and work the lathes. And I asked the guy, I said, how long does he, as he learned, he's been doing that for 20 years. And the only way I got him is that the Argentinian guy that we had hired for 30 years before that, [00:32:00] when he was getting ready to retire, I mirrored him up with three years so he could learn that.

[00:32:07] Eric Goranson: But we are such at a spot and that's his biggest fear is we're at such a spot of not having that person one day. And this is stuff that you can't really get with a CNC. This is stuff that you can't get because that hand craftsmanship doesn't exist through the computer that for that level of stuff, you still need to have a craftsperson and we're going to end up finding these people in other countries.

[00:32:30] Eric Goranson: We're going to have to figure this out if we don't get our hands around it.

[00:32:34] Andrew Brown: Exactly. And it's a great example. Another example is my dryer conked out and there's an individual that he's known and he comes and he fixes and he's good. He just, he listens. I know what it is. He's just that guy.

[00:32:47] Andrew Brown: He's the guy. And he's 64, 65 years old and we got to talking. He's I'm almost at retirement age and nobody wants my job. Nobody wants to take over. I have no debt, make good [00:33:00] money. I pick and choose a job, whatever, and he does pretty well. And he just, it was baffling to him that nobody wants to take over his job.

[00:33:08] Andrew Brown: And this is what happens. He leaves, no one fills the gap. What do you do? Who do you go to? There's not that many people left. And that's the scary thing that this keeps compounding and keeps happening. The individuals that put in 20, 30 years, the tricks of the trade. And then they leave, this is why we need to have some sort of mentorship program of mentoring somebody who's younger, who can come in and learn all this experience, and then it just doesn't go away that there's a plan in place for succession.

[00:33:43] Eric Goranson: No question. Andrew, let's talk about here. Before we run out of time, because this is a big one here, let's talk about what happens with this trades gap when we and what's happening now and how in this road we're on, because I don't think people really get their arms around. Okay yeah, we [00:34:00] need people in the trades.

[00:34:00] Eric Goranson: That's cool. I get it, but they don't realize how today it's affecting their lives. Tomorrow, it's going to have even a bigger impact because your example there is just great. That guy that's running his own business. He goes, I can't find everybody replaced me. Hey, I'm closing it down. I'm moving to the beach.

[00:34:17] Eric Goranson: I'm out of here. And now when you look in the, on Google and go, Hey, I got to call a appliance repair person. There's nobody there or there's two people and it's eight weeks out And you go I can't live without my dryer for eight weeks. Now i'm gonna take instead of spending 75 or 200 to fix that 800 dryer you have you go out and buy another one

[00:34:41] Andrew Brown: If we don't curb this skilled trades gap, just like you said, you could wait three, four weeks for a plumber. Can you wait three or four weeks and you're, you can't flush the toilet, something's backed up. Your septic is on the fritz, your dishwasher doesn't work. You can compound that, heaters [00:35:00] out, I'm freezing, my kids are freezing.

[00:35:02] Andrew Brown: It's, it's brutally hot out. People's ACs go down, right? It's hot, and you can't find that person. That's the worrisome that I'm concerned about that you're going to wait a lot longer and pay a lot more. It might be good for the people in the trades because they make more money, not good for the homeowner.

[00:35:22] Andrew Brown: So, well,

[00:35:23] Eric Goranson: Let's let's take that over to affordable housing for a second. That is such a big push across the United States right now, right? We've got to come up with affordable housing. I don't care where you're talking about, whether you're sitting out there in Kansas or if you're in California, it's a discussion, right?

[00:35:40] Eric Goranson: And it is wonderful for the trades that everybody's making good money out there. And it's getting harder and harder to find those people. So those people make more money because you're going, Hey, I got to pay him this. We're going to have less affordable housing down the road when it comes to new construction homes, because that labor rate just keeps [00:36:00] going up and up just because of,

[00:36:02] Andrew Brown: demand.

[00:36:06] Andrew Brown: You keep passing down the cost, right? Eventually, it's the homeowner that just has to pay more for the same item. That could be said for a lot of things in inflation and things like that, but this is what's going to happen. And that we need to curb this and be proactive, not reactive here. The, I want to focus on, being proactive, reactive is it's already happened.

[00:36:29] Andrew Brown: And it's, we're just reacting to being proactive. This is exactly why we need to keep, I'll say it again, goes back to the messaging. It goes back to trying to get the younger generation. Involved and to change that old adage that it's not a dirty, low end job that people assume with and that it's a, it can be a high paying job.

[00:36:51] Andrew Brown: If you put the time and effort in and learn the skills and learn the trade, we just again, need to work together. [00:37:00]

[00:37:00] Eric Goranson: Exactly. And that's really what it's going to take. And. And it's we've got an interesting decade ahead of us with so many people that are the brain trust of construction.

[00:37:11] Eric Goranson: And, remodeling right out there that are getting ready to head to the beach and call it a retirement. And we've got to be able to get people in to fill those shoes.

[00:37:20] Andrew Brown: Exactly.

[00:37:22] Eric Goranson: So, any other tips, man, that we can do to get people going in this? I always love getting your wisdom on this stuff because you're somebody out in the trenches that are just fighting it out every day out there trying to spread the word.

[00:37:34] Andrew Brown: Showing up every day. You can't just not show up and this is why I keep showing up on videos because I feel like if I'm not showing up, I'm doing an injustice. I'm not doing my job because the hard part is staying consistent. You keep knocking, you keep yelling, you keep screaming, you have a mic and you don't get the, you don't feel like you're making an impact, but I feel like I am.

[00:37:57] Andrew Brown: And it's just, it's a slow burn [00:38:00] and it's not something that happens in a couple of months. It could take a couple of years and you just need to keep showing up, stay consistent with the messaging and to get more people inspired. I feel I've inspired a good amount of people through my videos. That they want to start putting out messages about trades, that's where you get other people interested, like Roger Wakefield, you're watching him, inspired by him, or Jamie McMillan, and with the ironworkers, women, it's just, that's what you need to keep doing and those individuals need to keep showing up because if they don't, that's yesterday's news and that's what we need to keep being consistent.

[00:38:38] Eric Goranson: So very true. So very true. Hey, I want to ask you just because this is not why I had you on here. We're talking the trade today. Let's talk about your company for a second. Cause outside of you're carrying the flag for the trades, you're also CEO too.

[00:38:53] Andrew Brown: I am. And I want to give, I want to provide some context to really why I do this.

[00:38:57] Andrew Brown: Just a quick story. Yeah, let's do it. Because [00:39:00] some people ask me I, I don't really understand your background. So just to give you some context. On September 11, 2001, when I was 23 years old, I was living in New York City at the time, and the planes had just hit the buildings. And I got this crazy idea to go down there and help.

[00:39:16] Andrew Brown: And I convinced a friend in Rhode Island at the time to come in. And he came in a few days after it had happened. He comes in with this He comes downstairs and he's got this big blue truck with an American flag on the back and he's dressed up as a tradesperson. He's got a hard hat on and he's got an extra hard hat and overalls for me.

[00:39:38] Andrew Brown: And all of a sudden I find myself racing down the west side highway from checkpoint to checkpoint. And we make it down to ground zero. I don't know how we got to the checkpoints. I can't even, I can't even somehow. We need to look like

[00:39:50] Eric Goranson: you're supposed to be there. You're supposed to be

[00:39:52] Andrew Brown: there,

[00:39:53] Eric Goranson: park

[00:39:53] Andrew Brown: the car.

[00:39:54] Andrew Brown: And now I'm standing on the trade center where it once stood. And this is only a handful of [00:40:00] days. And I was helping trades people and emergency workers find survivors the entire day. So I was watching the trades people do anything necessary to find survivors. And you talk about light changing events.

[00:40:13] Andrew Brown: Not only personally, but professionally I was an IT guy and . Yeah. After that situation, I literally I quit my, I had a decent job in it. Like I quit my job a couple weeks after. I just put my two weeks notice in and I spent months and months trying to figure out how do I get back to the trades people that I saw.

[00:40:33] Andrew Brown: On 9 11. Yeah. So that's where I co founded an online to an equipment business named tool fetch with my brother about 20 years ago. Still going strong today. Still love the business. And we sell tools to the skilled trades. So professionals such as welders and carpenters, plumbers, and other blue collar skilled trades.

[00:40:51] Andrew Brown: And I always say, these are the men and women who are building our bridges, our tunnels, our roads, our infrastructure. And we reached them by offering one of the [00:41:00] largest to an equipment catalogs on the internet. With over a million different products from 650 different vendors of products like lifts, cement mixers, drain cleaners, harnesses, stuff like that.

[00:41:10] Andrew Brown: That is my way to get back to the scale trades to what I saw 20 plus years ago. So, every time that I'm talking to someone in the trades. It just, I keep going back, so I'm helping them. I'm the middleman between the manufacturer and the people who I call the heroes, the unsung heroes who are doing the work.

[00:41:30] Andrew Brown: That's what I'm doing, man. I'm living the dream that I'm supposed to be, the path I'm supposed to be doing.

[00:41:38] Eric Goranson: Man. What a powerful story of kind of finding yourself in your early twenties. Yeah. Divine invention is powerful, man. I love it. I love it. It's such a great success story too, of what you've been doing.

[00:41:51] Eric Goranson: And we just need to get more of these people in there and. Everybody that's tuning in right now, things you can do. Between [00:42:00] what Andrew is saying and what I'm saying here, just be involved in your community, right? Get out, get your head in what's going on in the schools. If you can.

[00:42:08] Eric Goranson: Buy a coffee to a counselor at a high school. That's telling kids where to go, make the argument. And just one person can put dozens of people in the trades every single year. And I think it's going to be that kind of grassroots effort. That's going to change the ship.

[00:42:26] Andrew Brown: Exactly.

[00:42:28] Eric Goranson: Thanks for coming on today, brother.

[00:42:30] Eric Goranson: If people want to track you down, what's the best way to do that?

[00:42:32] Andrew Brown: So I am very active on LinkedIn. It's under my name. Andrew Brown. You can reach out to me if you want to talk about tools. I'm always, I always like to talk shop or if you just want to talk about the skill trades. Reach out to me on YouTube.

[00:42:46] Andrew Brown: It's under tool fetch and toolfetch. com is our website.

[00:42:51] Eric Goranson: Perfect brother. Thanks for coming on today. This is such an important topic and happy. I had the expert on

[00:42:57] Andrew Brown: thanks, Eric. Appreciate it.

[00:42:59] Eric Goranson: I'm Eric [00:43:00] G and you've been listening to around the house.