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Hello, friends, and welcome to Coach Cut's.

Corner.

Streaming bright from Michigan's capital city. This podcast is dedicated to helping you better understand the who, the what and the why of mental performance, personal growth.

And Lansing Stars baseball.

Down on the fixing line.

Coach Cuts Corner, brought to you by.

Eyewash in collaboration with Lansing Community College.

And now, here's your host, Stephen Kutter.

Down on the victory line.

Welcome to Coach Cut's Corner, where we challenge limits, push for greatness, and develop athletes who thrive on and off the field. We've built a program centered on discipline, self belief, and relentless preparation. Each week I bring you insights from my coaching journey, conversations with high performers, and lessons that drive winning habits. If you're serious about growth, whether as a player, coach, leader or person, you're in the right place. Let's get after it. Today we're talking about something dangerous. Not a losing streak, not injuries, not even adversity. We're talking about complacency, the silent killer. Let me start with this. A couple weeks ago, we just swept a weekend series. Everything was clicking. Guys were loose, confident, and locked in. Then Monday hit and the edge was gone. You could feel it. The energy was flat. Details were being missed left and right. And that's how complacency works. It doesn't show up as laziness. It shows up as comfort. And in this game, comfort is the enemy of growth. Today, coach Jeff Allen is with me in the studio. Nobody's more in the day to day with this group than Jeff. He's been instrumental in building the culture here and the culture we have right now. Jeff, glad you're here, man.

Thanks for having me.

When you hear the word complacency, what do you think of first and where do you see it sneak in?

It's a killer. It's a sneaky killer, too. You know, it's kind of sneaks up on you if you're not aware of the, of the signs of it. And even myself, I've kind of found myself in situations where I'm beginning to become a little bit complacent and kind of got to check it as quick as you can and put some plans in place to, you know, kind of stop it right where it is and keep going. But I think that really stems from like you were talking about earlier is those when things are going great, you know, you're, you're rolling and you're like, man, nothing can go wrong. You kind of almost feel yourself taking the foot off the gas a little bit and not paying attention to the Little things that got you to that point where things are going great and it's, it's really tough to kick it if you don't recognize when it's happening. It's a very delicate balance because you don't want to be over critical of yourself, but also at the same time, you want to be critical enough that you can grow even in your wins just as much as you would from your losses.

I'm glad you brought that up because I really want to clear something up here. Complacency and confidence are not the same things. So when you talk about winning and having confidence, complacency and confidence are completely different things. Confidence says, I've earned this. Complacency says, I'm all right right now. You know, there's a huge difference. One feels action, the other invites decline. How do you help our players build real confidence without letting it turn into complacency? What are some things that kind of come to your mind with building confidence in our program?

When it comes to building confidence, I think one of the best things we can do as coaches is really make the, the practice situations as. As difficult as possible to begin with.

You know, still not a game, no matter how, how hard you work at that. Yes, absolutely. Game like is possible, but it's still not, still not like a game.

No, no. And you can, you can do little weird things to kind of spice it up. Like we like to do distraction ground balls. You know, it kind of puts in a competitive edge to it. Guys are out there competing and it's. You're not ever going to have a guy standing in front of you, jumping around it when you're fielding a ground ball.

But never say never.

But it makes it more difficult and it speeds the game up on them so that when you do slow it down or when you do get into those game situations, they can kind of just react and get in that flow state and not really, not really press because they've, they've been in situations similar to it at that same speed. So it doesn't feel as fast. If you can create those environments in practice, I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing that I would say as far as like building confidence in those players is making it difficult and showing them that they can succeed in that and then letting them roll with it when it comes to competition time.

Yeah, there's some gray area there. Confidence can lead to complacency, but they are two definitely separate things. As I was thinking about complacency a little bit, I Kind of wanted to call myself out here and talk about year three, which was last season for us. And when I was thinking about it a little bit, and I thought about it a lot because we went 35 and 17 last year, and that still was not solid enough for us to make the playoffs. One of the only teams in the country with 35 wins not playing in the postseason. But that is what it is in our region. And really that was one of those things where you could either learn from it and get better or just think that the chips were stacked against you and we were winning. The guys were definitely younger, and through that youth piece, they were less experienced, but we had talent, you know, and everybody thinks if you have talent, you're going to have success. And I leaned way too far into our theory of coach fed, player led model that we have here. And I, I really pulled back on some things thinking that the other groups had gotten it and this group would have gotten it. And I really should have shifted. I, I did, but it was too late. I should have shifted from coach fed, player led to coach fed, coach led because they were just so young. And you can't assume that because one group gets it, the next group's going to get it right. And complacency definitely went in there and I learned a lot from that. And you can't let culture run on cruise control. Standards still need to be spoken, shown and modeled by the coaches. And that lesson definitely shifted how I lead now. Complacency doesn't just affect our players, it also affects our coaches who think their system is self sustaining just like mine. It's not. It never will be. What have you noticed about the last few leadership classes that we've had as we talk about the important subjects in there?

Yeah, it's. It's just a lot of, a lot of foundational stuff that's really intertwined. Like we talked about complacency quite a bit in the last one, you know, and then like, confidence and complacency aren't the same thing, like you said. But I feel like there is a relationship between them to the point where, you know, if you're getting too confident, you're getting too comfortable, that's when it starts to creep in. And really, it all, even all the way back to the fall, all of our leaderships are really, really tied together. And when you boil it down, that's really what leadership is, is being able to take all of those aspects of it and kind of combine them and show those overlapping areas where, you know, you might be a solid leader in some areas, but if you're not sharpening your skills in those other ones, then you're not allowing yourself to be the best leader you possibly can. So I think that really tying those together week to week has helped me quite a bit in my coaching journey as far as trying to become a better overall well rounded leader. I would say one of the main underlying tones the past couple of weeks with leadership is definitely, you know, not, not being satisfied with, with what you've done so far. You know, every day you're, you're paying your dues to get that success that you're wanting and it doesn't stop even once you get to that point. There's always going to be a point where you want more. And if there's not, that's, that's when that complacency starts to kind of creep in and you, you start taking steps backward instead of forwards.

You know, I know there's a quote from Pat Riley can be somewhat of a gut punch if you let it sink in. And he said success makes you forget what it took to get there. And when you talk about confidence and stuff, that's where confidence and complacency, success and those things have a very close relationship. But it can't get too close. There's gotta be some lines in there. And the easiest way we found to define those lines with a team that's had a lot of success, you know, over a period of time is just with the truth and honesty. And that's, and that's the biggest thing to talk about. Instead of always saying, hey, great win. That was a true team win. You can still talk about that stuff, but then, you know, what else do we need to work on? And that's kind of where our, well, better houzz come, things like that. But it's identifying the truth. Instead of always patting everybody on the back and telling them that they're doing great when there's other things that they can work on to help them do better. Mainly in life and then life parallel sports all the time.

Yeah. Yep, absolutely.

That's kind of why we stay process driven. That's why we stay uncomfortable. That's why we reset the tone every single day. That's why our tones are mingled. But in our leadership and stuff as we go through the season, it's continually talking about things that are super, super important in life and in sports and constantly hammering that home. Because the things that are the most important in your program or in your life, you should be communicating about those as often as you can. And the more things that you can communicate about that are important, the more those lessons somewhat get learned. So I want to shift to the present right now, and I want to talk about this a little bit, because when I think about where we are present day with our Stars program, we've won 14 of our last 15 games. That's not a fluke. That's not luck. That's a lot of recovery work, intentional prep leaderships. That's better in game communication between players, coaches that's staying locked in through ridiculously long bus rides and crazy spring weather and all the changes and delays we've had. But then we sit here and we say we're not impressed by the streak. We're definitely proud of how we're playing. Yep. From your seat, what's been the most significant shift behind this run that we're on? When we start the season one and five and are currently 15 and six, I think they're.

There has been a lot of resiliency shown through our players. You know, when we went down to Mississippi, we realized that, you know, it's going to be extremely tough competition. Started out this season with one of the best teams in the country, Pearl River. You know, that's. There's a lot of teams that would roll into that and, you know, get. Get beat and just kind of lay down, you know, pack it in for the season and call it quits. But I haven't seen even an ounce of quit out of our guys. I think it, if anything, it motivated them more to get back and work even harder and keep their eyes on the goal of, you know, getting back to a point where we're playing like a Pearl river and Enid and, you know, really show them what we're actually about instead of that early season, you know, you're still getting the jitters out. So it's. That's not even close to the team that we are today. But also in the same breath, I don't think that we're close to the true potential of our team yet. I think that we're starting to get there, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

Yeah, we talk a lot about maybe we're playing at 55 or 60% of our capacity right now, and it's trying to reach that capacity. The real test isn't if we can win. It's if we can keep our edge while we're winning. That's where teams get separated, not in the losses, but in the wins. It's Having a team that has won 14 out of 15 games and having a program full of players that expect to win 15 out of 15 games. In sports and baseball, it's really tough to win games consecutively. It's just tough to win. There's some luck that goes into whether that ball goes fair or foul. And one, whether you stay healthy or you don't. You know, all that stuff. But the standard never really changes. It's the players expect to win. Whether they come out and they're playing the number one team in the country and they haven't been outside for more than three days to start the season, the expectation is there. And that expectation doesn't get built overnight. It's through a long process and players coming in expecting to win because of where the program's at. And it's. You just keep kind of stacking the bricks and. And I think about, like some moments with this team that I've just said this team is different. And we've been. We've been fortunate in a lot of ways to have some really special teams here and special players and special families and things like that. And. And I look at this team this year and I've said for a quite a while, even in the fall, like, this team is different. They are super close. And that piece is something that you can't build by having pizza parties or bowling. You probably can't hurt it by doing that, but it runs deeper than that. It's the care for each other. And this team is the nucleus, is extremely close. And so that's like a plus one or a win that says this team is different. They battled through adversity, which every team will battle through adversity. It doesn't matter who you are. You know, sometimes it becomes a flag for programs. Like, we've had the most adversity. Well, everybody's going to have adversity. And so it's just how they've responded with the things that we've given them, how they're trying their best to learn all the things that we deem as important in our program. And then of course, just the energy with them. They're very happy and having fun and having a lot of energy through times that, like where practices or those long bus trips or anything, those aren't the most fun things to do. And when you're trying to be intentional in practice and trying to develop habits and routines and things that are going to serve them, a lot of that stuff is somewhat boring. And on the other side of the coin, it's Also extremely challenging. And so the failure rates are really high. There's not a whole lot of people in this world that love to fail. There's not a lot of people that love to change either, but they don't love to fail. So when we talk about a nucleus, a group, a large group of kids that have come together and are very close, they've also created this belief system and these standards, and it's been pretty neat to watch. Do you have anything, any moments or players or scenes that made you think this team is different? I know you've had a lot of views from other places and stuff. So anything really stand out to you where you said this team's different?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Actually, just about a week and a half ago, I think we beat a team by about nine runs. And, you know, that's a pretty big margin to beat somebody by. But at the end of the game, I kind of found myself reflecting. I was like, man, we won. But I didn't, I don't feel like we won, you know, just because the standard's so high. And it's like, man, I feel like we could go out and put up 25 runs every game and play errorless defense and, you know, shut out baseball. So it's. And you see that on the faces of the players too. Not that they're not proud of the win, you know, but they're still hungry. So that's kind of one, one thing that I, I took a step back and I went, yeah, this is, this is a lot different than anything I've ever been a part of. This is a high growth environment. You know, people are wanting more than just the victory, just what the scoreboard is.

Yeah, those high growth environments, and I don't think we've talked about them a whole lot on here, but those high growth environments are extremely challenging. And it, it becomes an enormous filter for people and how bad do they really want something and, and being able to push through some adversity, push through some early mornings, some late nights, and you really find out like you're, you know, you better have a strong why y. And you better be able to battle the complacency when you start having some success. And if you don't, it's. The game is going to humble you. And we've had some experiences in our 21 games that you see players get humbled very quickly. And it's, that's why we say things like, stay humble, stay hungry. Let me leave you with this quote. Success is never owned. It's rented and the rent is due every day. And we talk about this a lot, about, this is a new day. What you did yesterday doesn't matter. I think there was a. I put a quote on the board. I put a lot of quotes on the boards, but I was talking about potential.

Yeah.

And I said, I really don't care what your potential is. I believe, and I think I asked our entire group, like, do you believe that everybody has potential? And the entire group said, absolutely. And I said, you know, we all, as human beings, we have potential. I care more about what you do with your potential and what you're doing with it. Our world is full of a lot of underachievers. So the message to the team was, don't waste your gift. And if you're willing to show up every day, you're not always going to get the wins on the scoreboard. You're not always going to get the wins. In life. There's going to be traffic, there's going to be heavy backpacks, there's going to be all that stuff. But if you keep showing up, you give yourself the best chance. And if it's 10 out of 10 times, maybe one out of those 10 times is not going to work for you. But nine out of 10 times, if you keep showing up, you give yourself the best chance. And that's what we're trying to do with the student athletes here. That's what we're trying to do with our coaching staff. And it's never really enough. We reward them as much as we possibly can, but we still try to keep them humble and hungry and telling them, national rankings do not matter. Win streaks do not matter. It's the process. Buying into the process and doing the things that are gonna help you grow and get better. And that's really the deal. You don't own wins, you earn them. Every pitch, every rep, every meeting. I think I say that all the time. Thank you for joining us today. Make winning in life your habit, not your goal. Excellence isn't an outcome, it's a daily standard. Our mission is to build athletes and teams that compete at the highest level, not just on game day, but in every aspect of their journey. Build the right habits, lead with intent, and push yourself beyond the limits others set for you. And don't forget to cherish the small moments they pass by in a blink of an eye. Until next time, keep stacking bricks and go stars. Coach Cutscorner is recorded live in the WLNZ studios, with the Dalian Lowry providing engineering and production assistance. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please share it and follow us on all forms of social media. Our program has been built and maintained with the help of many great people. If you want to be part of our mission, you can donate using the link in the show notes below. You can learn more@coachcutter.com and more about our team@lccstars.com See you next time. This is LCC Connect Voices Vibes Vision.

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Conversations with Kate is like a conversation with your friend, hairstylist or therapist where we will talk about music, life stories and everything in between with interviews and guests sprinkled in. As an LCC student, it's an honor and I love bringing a fresh perspective to the podcast menu on LCC Connect. I am your host Kate. Let's get into this episode. Hey there. Welcome back to Conversations with Kait. I'm Kait, your host. This is the space where we're going to talk about real life, music and everything in between. Today we're going to talk about something that's quiet and subtle, but really powerful. It's about the impact you don't even know that you're having on people. Have you ever had someone tell you you said something years ago that stuck with me and you had no idea what they were even talking about? Or maybe they said you helped them through a hard time and you didn't even realize they were going through anything at all. That's what today's episode is all about. The moments where you were the light in someone's life when you didn't even realize that you were shining. You see, sometimes we are just so caught up in our own heads. Our to do lists, the things that we need to get done. Our lives, our insecurities, our routines that we forget we are being watched. We are being listened to and felt by others more than you know. Your kindness, your consistency. That moment you made someone feel happy, you made someone laugh when they really needed it. That mattered. I think about this story. You've probably heard it before where maybe you've heard a different version of it, or a version of it where a student's walking out of school and drops all of his books. Another kid stopped to help him pick it up, and they walked and talked a little. Nothing special. And years later, the kid who dropped the books said that he had planned to end his life that day, but someone caring enough to notice him changed everything. And the other person had no idea. I'm not saying every single interaction has that type of dramatic impact, or is that dramatic? But even just showing up with kindness or smiling, giving somebody a small compliment, saying someone's name to them or remembering their name or complimenting their shirt, you never know who's looking at you and who's thinking because of them, I didn't give up. Because of them, I felt seen. Because of them, I believed in myself a little more. And here's the thing. People don't always tell us the impact that we've had on them. Sometimes they're too shy, sometimes they don't realize it until years later. And sometimes they just can't find the words. So I'm just going to say this. If no one has told you lately, your presence matters. The way you carry yourself, the way you treat people when no one's watching, the way that you simply exist with care. You are influencing people in ways that you may never know. And that is both humbling and really, really beautiful. Some of the things that I've experienced lately have been kind of like unfavorable things in life. And that's Why I wanted to talk about this is that despite these, like, unfavorable things that have come into my life and share this with you is that I just kind of chug along and pay attention, like I said earlier, pay attention to my checklist, to what I got to do every single day. And, you know, I just don't realize the impact that that has on people. And this is just a for instance. One of the people had told me was a client of mine who I just was talking about, you know, my skincare routine. This is kind of silly. My skincare routine. And she's like, your skin is beautiful and what do you use? And I'm like, well, you know, it's really kind of simple. I just use ponds and sometimes the ordinary moisturizer. The next time that I did her brows, she was like, oh, my gosh. I went and I got the ponds, and I love it. Another incident where I had inspired someone or they said that I had made an impact and I didn't even realize was a client of mine who I spoke to about my health journey and what I did and how I got from A to Z and how I feel about it currently. She said that it made the impact with her because she had been on Weight Watchers not to really obsess about, like, weighing her food and, you know, have that, like, food noise. And I was like, wow, really? Okay, that's super awesome. And one of the things she said that really, really made an impact was that I intuitively was trying a new thing, which was intuitive eating, which I have done recently. And she said that she's been doing that too. And a lot of her food noise has kind of gone away. It's given her that little bit of confidence to be like, you know what? This is my body. I don't need to measure. I don't. I don't have to, like, make sure that it's. It's exact to whatever the measurements were. I don't know how Weight Watchers works, but apparently that is, like, something that they do with that program. So it was really cool to hear her little testimonial. I didn't even realize that was just like, you know, I talk to people about what helped me all the time, and it was. It was very cool to hear that those were some things that impacted her. The other one recently, personal experience that I would like to share is my niece. She is an adult now, and recently she had messaged me and she said, ani K, you have no idea the impact that you have on Me, she sees parts of me in her and that's helped her in turn love herself and that she looks up to me and that I'm a beam of light. And one of the text messages that she sent me recently was like, growth and your evolvement is not just benefiting you, it's benefiting me. So thank you so much for being that that example which you know, again it's just, it's an unseen impact that, that I had on these three incidents of people. And then one of the things that I would like to kind of add into that personal testimony thing is of all of the things that I've done in the recent couple of years, what has had the most like, what is one of the things that the most important that I would stick with and honestly that is prioritizing sleep. Prioritizing sleep. My morning routine, which is warm lemon ginger water, cold plunging, first light and three rounds of 30 breath and grounding and meditation, which this person was like, okay, that's not just one thing, but I love the fact that that's what you stick with. And I'm like, yeah, those are, that's. It's not necessarily a one thing. If I were to choose just the one thing out of all of the things, it would definitely have to be cold plunging. So here's the thing. People don't always tell us when we've had an impact on them. Sometimes they're too shy, sometimes they don't even realize it until years later. And sometimes they just can't find the words. I want to reiterate that statement. If no one has told you lately, your presence matters. So here's a little challenge or maybe just an invitation. Live like someone is watching. Like you're leaving a mark, because it is. And if someone has impacted you, maybe it's time to tell them. You never know what kind of fuel that might be for their journey. There's other people that I'd like to talk about that have personally impacted me. I can't remember her name for the life of me, but it is the person that inspired me to do Omad and just seeing the difference that it made in her day to day life. Couple of my different teachers here at LCC campus. Big shouts out to Nada Radukovich, I think is how you say her last name. We just call her by Nada. Professor Jones and Professor G, which we will have him. By we I mean me. I will have him here in studio soon to chat with him as well as the thing that like got me started on my Musical journey. Reed Speed. Fantastic woman. My brother and I went to go see her perform in Orlando, and here I was sitting in the VIP area of this venue behind the DJ booth, and I was watching this woman who was shorter than I, and I am a 5 2, and just absolutely tiny, tiny frame in an oversized, baggy shirt just completely run this entire venue. And I would say there was probably about, I'd say, at the very least, a thousand people inside of that venue on that floor and in the mezzanine areas. And she was able to control and flow, just control that room and respond and have everybody interact with her as the dj. And I was like, oops, you know what? If she can do it, there's definitely no reason why I can't do it. And it was not that long after that that I kind of really put my head down and was like, all right, I'm gonna give this DJing thing all I have. And I did. I went home and I put my head down and I just practiced. A couple of the other people that have inspired me are Chris Hemsworth. That is more of a on my health journey type of inspiration. I can't remember the name of the show. I know I've talked about it on another episode, but it basically was like, I just want to, like, hack my body and perform better. And that's where the cold plunging and the breathwork initially had started. And that led me to, fortunately dipping my toes into the shower, like, couple of seconds at a time when it was the most cold, as well as doing breath work. I had no idea what it was up until that episode of watching him, like, jump in freezing, frigid water. And so I looked up Wim Hof and the different breathing methods. And till this day, that, like I said earlier, that's some of the things that I do. So again, that's just an impact, a small little impact that I had from watching a television show with Chris Heine that I still carry with me every single day. And it has radically changed my life again. The breath work was further cemented in by another lovely woman who had an impact on me. Her name is JoJo Campus. She does breath work sessions at. I think it's Yoga Connect. One of. That's one of the places that she does the breathwork sessions, a couple of different places here in Lansing, and she had come out and done a breathwork session on my friend Victoria's birthday that altered my DNA at a cellular level. And again, is why I still do breath work to this day, every single day, every Single day. If I am feeling stressed out, if I am feeling anxious, and I will just go outside and I will plant my feet in the grass, the dirt, and I will walk around and do three rounds of 30 breaths, which is a Wim Hof method. And the first light. That makes a huge difference too. I always like, tell people that, you know, I'm pretty sure that my neighbors think that I'm a little, little crazy lady because I go, I do. When it's warm outside and it's not freezing temperatures or frigid temperatures, I am outside in my backyard touching grass and looking at the sunshine first thing in the morning and doing my breath work every single day. So again, just reiterate to you. If you're listening to the sound of my voice, you and the way that you are has an impact on so many people that you are around. Don't think that you don't. Because I have had people that tell me and I don't think, I don't think that I am an inspirational person. I just, in my mind I'm like, hey, I just do what I do every single day and kind of carry on. Oh, I just had something come to me. There was another impact that I didn't realize that I had had. My first semester here at LCC. I was actually chatting with my classmates about my three rounds of 30 breath grounding and all of that stuff. And one of my classmates, Micah, over the summertime actually sent me a photograph of her and one of her friends actually outside grounding. And you know, it. Like I said, you just don't know who is around you that is paying attention to what you're doing. Especially people that maybe you're not interacting with. Maybe they're just in the room with you and you're interacting with someone else. So thank you so much for hanging out with me today. If this episode made you think about someone, send it their way. Or better yet, tell them what they mean to you right now. And if no one has told you lately, I am here to tell you that I'm glad you're here and that you have made an impact and the world is better with you in it. Until next time, take care of yourself and remember, your impact matters even when it goes unseen. If there's anything that you want to add or contact me with about someone that's made an impact with you, please do so. You can message me on all social platforms for conversations with Kate and just kind of put it in there unseenimpact. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today and I look forward to talking to you again. Thanks for listening to this episode of Conversational with Kate. You can find more information on LCC Connect site as well as all social platforms, Facebook, Instagram, yes, TikTok as well. Big love.

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Washington Square on air is the audio town square for the Washington Square Review, Lansing Community College's literary journal. Writers, readers, scholars, publishing professionals, citizens of the world, gather here and chat about all things writing. Hey there. This is Melissa Ford Luckin, Editor for the Washington Square Review. I'm here today with Dylan Hoover, whose piece Aztec is in our Summer 25 issue. Hey there Dylan.

Hi Melissa. Thank you for having me on.

Yeah, for sure. Give us a little overview of your piece and let us know. How did you come to write it?

Sure thing. So Aztec follows the story of an Aztec in the 1500s, around the time when the Spanish arrived in the Americas. And the main narrator is grappling with the aftermath and the loss that he encounters with the city that he's born in, which is Tenoche de Juan. And the story is mostly concerned about grief and that continual emotion throughout. And when it comes to inspirations for this piece, I would say it really began last summer when I took a trip out West. I've spent most of my life on the East Coast. And something about going to Arizona, to California, and seeing the influence of Aztec culture, it really left an impression on me. And when I returned, I was compelled to watch documentaries, to immerse myself in the mythology of the Aztecs. I suppose that's where this piece originated.

What was it about the Aztec culture that intrigued you so much?

Well, sadly, I think it's the fall of the Aztecs and seeing really incredible civilization that had all this technology, all these traditions. It's actually a sad thing to see a civilization like the Aztecs fall from this imperial regime that just stormed an entire civilization and toppled it. It's something that I was compelled to write about.

It sounds like a lot of unanswered questions.

Yeah.

So you decided to write the story. Did the story come to you right away? How did you shape the story?

Yeah, so I would say when I returned from California, it took me, like, a few weeks. I went to Barnes and Nobles. I bought a book on, like, the mythology. I dived into that, and then I also got another book on the Contistadors. It took me a few weeks to really scan through the information and see, do I have a story here? And I love. Like, I'm a really big history buff, but I mostly focus on European history and specifically with England and Britain. So thinking about, like, this other, like, culture took time. Once I was able to find, like, a central emotion, because that's really what carries stories is there has to be a central issue. And for me, it was a sense of grief. And I think that was prevalent with the fall of the Aztecs. So I. I compiled the story like that.

One of the things you and I were chatting about before we started recording officially is your use of dialogue. And I asked you if you had kind of some thoughts about that, and you let me know that you do. So let's hear them.

Yeah. So I think with the dialogue in this story, as with any story, it's really important that the dialogue serves the characters. It gives the reader a strong sense of who these people are, what's at stake and just in general helps lead credence to the world of the story. And thinking about this piece, I had to include the Nahuatl language, which is the native language of the Aztecs. And I knew the reader would probably have to go, like, research most of the translations. But I wanted to stay faithful to the people, to this culture. I don't want to compromise that by using English and just looking at a random section from the story. I also tried to stay faithful to, like, the main antagonist of the story, which is the conquistadors and Hernandez Cortez and like the establishment of New Spain. And I really wanted. I just really wanted the story to feel authentic. Right from each, like, snippet of dialogue. I really wanted it to feel complete.

Yep. That is one of the challenges of writing historically. You want it to. To have the historic vibe, but it also needs to be accessible to the reader. And I can appreciate what you're saying about it being like a big decision, a bold move just to go ahead and do it the way that you did it, because as a writer, that's the only way to do it. Right. Once you realize this is the way I'm going to do it, it's either going to sink or it's going to swim. You just don't. You don't always know which way it's going to go. But that's. It's complicated decision. That's what I'm thinking about, is how many elements went into the dialogue. You got the historical part, the characterization part, the words. Right. And then the way that it functions in the text. So it's doing a lot of different things. And that's what makes it, I think, so complicated.

And I. I think specifically with historical fiction, you have to allot, like, certain amount of creative license where you depart from the actual history. You want it to feel authentic, but at the same time, if you want the story to feel literary and rely on essential, like, emotional strand, then you have to give yourself the room to expand and maybe depart from the actual history. But then also you want the reader to feel like, oh, this is. This is actually something that happened in the past. So it's. It's a fine medium.

Yeah, yeah, it's really complicated. I think that the dialogue also, as we're talking about it now specifically in your piece, also serves as part of the setting.

Yeah.

I think there's no way you can tell the story without thinking about where it's set. Which, if the reader explores the background of this piece, they'll find that Tenochtitlan it was the big capital of the Aztecs, and that's where the Spanish arrived and met the emperor Moctezuma. And it's very complex, actually, Tenochtitlan, because it was set in modern day Mexico City, which is the place that I would love to visit in the future. I haven't had a chance to. But it's actually kind of a tragedy, though, what happened there. That there was this lake, Lake Texcoco, and basically the Spanish drained it and built on top of the ruins of the Aztec. And even to this day, the Mexicans are finding relics and like all these treasures just buried beneath the city. It's. It's kind of mind boggling. But that setting to know Shillon was such a unique place that even the Spanish, when they arrived, they were completely shocked to find, like, these pyramids and all these structures that they thought were only located in Europe or in the East. So it was quite impressive.

That is pretty wild. How does this story fit in with your other creative works?

I would say the piece is obviously historical fiction. It's just I have like, a very vast range, like as a writer, where all my short stories rely on these intense emotions. And I always strive to make my work literary. But I think this piece is very separate from those other works because it deals with this unique period in time. And it's also. It's very strongly anti imperialist. And a lot of my other work doesn't really deal with that. I'll go into further detail later, but I wrote this story called New China, and I presented it to my MFA workshop. It basically is like. It's like an alternate history. So I guess this one is a departure because that's more speculative of, like, what could have been. And then this piece is obviously trying to capture something authentic.

You mentioned workshopping and your programs. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your educational background and what you're doing right now?

Yeah, so I just recently finished my MFA in Creative Writing at the University of New Hampshire. That took me two years. And I really had such a great time in workshop. Like in New Hampshire, they don't really give you writing prompts. Like, maybe the other NFA programs would sort of like, expect you to present your own material for workshops. They go through it and you get feedback from the entire class. And I don't know, I just really found it helpful. I began the program not really understanding what it meant to be literary.

I'm laughing because. I'm laughing because people tell me that all the time when I ask this question. They often say, well, I. I didn't really know what was going to happen to me in the MFA program. I had no idea what was going to go on, but it sounded fun, so I went and did it. So. So anyway, back to you. When you first started, what did you expect it to be like?

Yeah, so as an undergrad, I really put, like. I guess I feel changed in the sense that I put so much concentration, effort, and emphasis on world building and on life. The esthetics of the piece on, I guess just the theatrics of writing. I didn't realize there's this deeper emotional resonance that you can actually beg from your readers. And I think just also like having to revise your work, getting feedback from multiple different people, and also just, I don't know, like, all the helpful writerly suggestions from faculty and stuff. My one professor always had this rule of get in this, get in late, get out early. Basically, writers tend to overwrite because they're trying to work their way into the story. And you don't really need all that in the beginning. And that's part of the process of revision where you rip off the first few pages and then you rip off the last, and there's your story. But I didn't realize that there was just so much helpful suggestions and support that I think the MFA program is just quite wonderful. I think it's. It really changed me as a writer.

That's great. You've mentioned a couple times the engagement that the writer and the. The reader have. And it seems to me that with a lot of genre fiction or commercial fiction, that there's more supplied for the reader. It's maybe perhaps easier reading. And I don't mean that to disparage it. I'm just. That's just the way it is. But with literary, you've mentioned a couple times giving more space for the reader to use their own imagination, use their own thoughts, and to do more work, essentially. Does that make sense to you? Do you see it that way with literary fiction?

Oh, absolutely. And I think because I really love historical fiction, I feel like sometimes because it's a genre, of course, that other writers might be more inclined to stick with just straight up literary fiction. But I kind of want to pioneer something original with historical fiction. I want to strike a balance between historical and literary and not. I don't want to get completely caught up with the historical theatrics of the period and the time. But I also realize you need a certain amount of that for the reader to Invest in sitting down and reading this entire piece or even a book. Yeah. So I just think it's very important to balance those two because if you lean strictly into either one, then you're. You're sort of. You're stuck with that, I suppose, like. And that there's anything wrong with literary. That's what I'm aiming for. I know that, like, sometimes historical fiction might just be dismissed as genre and.

Yeah, I think you're right.

People might not be interested.

Yeah. Why do you think that is?

I don't, honestly. I think because history is very difficult to like comprehend because there's so many dates, there's so many events. I think because it demands that people research and that's kind of like an endless pursuit of filling in the blanks. And I don't. And I think it's even more difficult to write because you're constantly making sure everything's accurate. And then you have to make the hard call of where do I depart from the actual history? It's a really tough call. Yeah. I think most people. It can be dense to read and it can also be extremely. Yeah, I don't think it's a flavor for everyone. That's kind of why I want to like pioneer almost like this hybrid genre between historical and literary. That way I keep the green, the readers grounded.

Yeah, I think that's pretty fascinating. It is a puzzle. How do you work creatively within a pre existing framework? Right. You only have so much room to adjust things and there's a lot of things you can't change. So I think that what you were talking about earlier with making use of the emotion of the piece would probably go a long way to achieve something there.

Yeah, I definitely agree. And I think with this story I really came back to like these central emotions of a pain, of grief, of sadness, and having like following a single point of view with one distinct narrator and getting like these certain snippets of his life really highlight those emotions.

I just was thinking that those basic emotions are something that any reader can relate to. So even if they can't relate to the historical background, obviously we can't because we weren't there. But we can relate to the emotions. And that's your way in your way to connect.

Right. And I'm also hoping that the story extends itself to contemporary times and the anti imperialist undertone is translated into modernity for sure.

You mentioned workshopping in your MFA program. And then I also know that you've done workshopping around the world. I'd love to hear about other places where you've done workshopping and how do they do things differently or, you know, what's the same.

Yeah, So I think that calls them. On my experience, when I was an undergrad, I studied abroad at Lancaster University for a semester as an exchange student and I took a few creative writing courses there. And well, it's actually interesting because no matter where you go, I feel connected as a community of writers. It's a very unique feeling that we can all relate to each other. But then I think what makes the international experience different is that part of the job of the writers is to experience. And like going international, you experience all these other cultures, all these other traditions, and you kind of bring that with you to workshop. And I think that's what makes the experience so different. And also I think specifically thinking about the uk, they're much more focused, I would say, on like genre. And the workshop itself is sort of similar. But I do think the US provides a lot of support from faculty when it comes to like suggestions and everything. I think in the uk, it's more like what you pull from the actual workshop with other students and your peers.

You said that they were more focused on genre. How did you come to have that awareness?

For me, it was. I read like a few pieces when I was there and I. I noticed with the supplement readings that it was more. It was less literary and more on like different genres. So, yeah, I think it's definitely different on the front of the literary versus genre.

Okay, so it was mostly through the reading material that you noticed it?

Yeah, I would say through the reading material.

Did you find that the, the writing community was just similarly supportive of each other in the way that, you know, the willingness to read each other's work and that kind of thing?

Oh, absolutely. I think that's just the nature of writers that we're curious about other writers work. We want to help others, but then we also want help ourselves and we need direction. And I feel like I received that in the international workshop.

Yeah. Other countries where you've done workshopping.

Well, that was actually a writer's like summer workshop. It wasn't like through an actual school. Okay, I would definitely.

Yeah, let's hear about it.

Yeah, yeah, so I did that. I think it was two summers ago. It was right before I began my mfa. And basically it's like a small community of writers that meets on the island of Colossus in Greece. And it's the same with that experience, which is you take in the culture of Greece. We went on all these excursions, we went and experienced all that Greece had to offer, and we took that and applied it to our work. I mean, some people wrote about their own struggles, like back home or in other places, because it was a collection of writers from all over the world. But I think as a group, experiencing Greece and the Mediterranean and taking in just everything before us really helped give us inspiration to write.

Was there anything that stood out, especially when you were traveling around and experiencing different things?

Yeah, I noticed that before we went to the island of Fossils, we went to this city in northern Greece called the Saloniki. And I was the only one in the whole workshop that loved that city. Everybody was like, it's too busy. It feels overcrowded, kind of confusing. And I'm the only one that I was like, well, I mean, I like the island, but I like Saloniki the best. And I thought that was kind of strange. But, yeah, it made me, like, stand out in the sense that I could write about that city from a different perspective, that probably they wouldn't.

Did you grow up in the city? Why? Do you just have a thing for cities?

I actually. Yeah, so I actually grew up in a rural area, so I prefer the city. Yeah.

Since you mentioned growing up in a rural community, how does that fit into your writing view, do you think?

Actually, I've written a few pieces that I've included in my MFA thesis, and I think it is pertinent to my work, but I also don't prefer to dwell on it. There's so much, like, other things to write about. Like, as I mentioned earlier, I'm a real history buff, and I really like to dive into, like, a certain period or time and then draw from that. But I have written about my experience, and especially, like, in my childhood of coming from that rural area and how it shaped me and gave me, like, the proper motivation to go international, to go as far as I can and meet as many people as I can and learn from the experience.

I'm going to tease you and say, is that because there weren't many people to meet in the rural community. So I've met all these people. I'm ready to go out and see who else is out there.

Well, I think there are people that. Probably the wrong sort of people.

Right. I should tell you that I lived in a rural community for about three, 30 years, so I can relate. So I'm laughing at myself a little bit as well. So what kind of work are you doing currently?

So I've had this project that I've been working on since the beginning of my mfa, and I really found the motivation to write it from my advisor in the mfa, because I had the idea since high school, and I finally had the courage to write it. And it. It actually began in a very strange way where I took this screenplay class with my professor, and I decided to turn the story into a screenplay before anything else. And it's basically. It's a historical fiction piece set in the American Revolution from the British perspective. Because I'm very intrigued by British history, and I have been since I was really young. And I don't know, like, I think with, like, current politics and everything, I really, like, wanted to take a jab at the American mythology and ethos of putting the Founding Fathers on a pedestal, because the more, like, I dig into, like, Tory loyalist literature from the British perspective, the more I find out how wicked and corrupt the Founders were. And I think it's really interesting to see, like, an alternative lens of what the British perspective was like, because there are so many books on, like, the patriots on the American side breaking into, like, the governor's home in Boston and, like, gutting his home of, like, tar and feathering of Americans loyal to England, being forced out of their homes to flee to Canada, flee to Britain, and just leave everything behind because the patriot insurrection, like, forced them out of this place that they came to respect. And it's really a story of exile. And I. That's what I want to tell with that piece.

Interesting. So it sounds like the alternate perspective would give you the opportunity to paint a different picture.

Oh, definitely. And I'm also hoping that it challenges everyone's view on the Revolution, because, to be honest, I really can't stand Hamilton, like, the musical. I. I don't really, like. I'm not a fan of, like, the glorification of, like, the Founders and the Patriots. I think the way Britain was so far advanced compared to America politically and socially, it's really sort of a tragedy that a small band of colonials undermined the colonies, especially for people that were actually rather content with the current order of things. And it's definitely interesting, like, dusting up on this history. I have, like, thousands of books on this, and I'm hoping to turn this into a novel in my doctorate. That's what I'm going to spend the next three years writing. Is this novel beautiful?

That sounds great. And you're going to the right place to do it?

Oh, yes.

If people would like to follow you online and watch your progress, where can they find you?

Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram, my handles at uptill who 96 and I tend to just use Instagram.

Okay, beautiful. Well, we'll be sure to include that in the show notes so people can follow along and see what you're up to.

Awesome.

Great. Well, thanks a lot for coming in and talking to me today.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Thanks for stopping by the audio town square of the Washington Square Review. Until next time, this has been Washington Square on air from Lansing Community College. To find out more about our writers, community and literary journal, visit lcc.edu. wSL writing is messy, but do it anyway.

This is WLNZ Lansing. You're listening to LCC Connect, a weekly program that features the voices, Vibes and vision of Lansing Community College. To find out more about LCC Connect.

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