1 00:01:25,050 --> 00:01:29,340 Sam: Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan, and welcome to 2 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:33,630 today's episode of The Future Ready Advisor. Today I'm here 3 00:01:33,630 --> 00:01:37,230 with John Prendergast, founder of Blue Leaf, a wealth 4 00:01:37,230 --> 00:01:41,400 management software firm with a focus on client engagement and 5 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,250 experience. John, welcome to the show. 6 00:01:45,008 --> 00:01:47,348 John: Hey, Sam. Thanks for having me, man. I'm very excited 7 00:01:47,348 --> 00:01:48,368 for this conversation. 8 00:01:48,696 --> 00:01:51,906 Sam: Me as well. Let me quickly introduce you to our audience. 9 00:01:52,536 --> 00:01:57,156 John is the co-founder and CEO of Blue Leaf, and he also serves 10 00:01:57,156 --> 00:02:01,030 as the chief product officer. He is an experienced entrepreneur 11 00:02:01,030 --> 00:02:05,050 and senior executive as well as an active startup advisor. He's 12 00:02:05,050 --> 00:02:08,740 been part of six founding teams leading the product management, 13 00:02:08,740 --> 00:02:12,670 marketing and finance functions, and it is his background in 14 00:02:12,670 --> 00:02:15,730 banking and wealth management that has shaped that vision for 15 00:02:15,730 --> 00:02:19,487 Blue Leaf. John I'm looking forward to this conversation. I 16 00:02:19,487 --> 00:02:21,977 think client experience and client engagement is so 17 00:02:21,977 --> 00:02:25,127 important in our industry and technology is going to play a 18 00:02:25,127 --> 00:02:30,133 really critical part. But before we dive in, let's start. You've 19 00:02:30,133 --> 00:02:34,333 had a diverse career before becoming the CEO of Blue Leaf. 20 00:02:34,483 --> 00:02:37,003 Can you tell us a little bit about your professional journey 21 00:02:37,003 --> 00:02:39,103 and what led you to start Blue Leaf? 22 00:02:39,945 --> 00:02:45,075 John: Yes. Diverse. Some would say unfocused, though. For me, 23 00:02:45,075 --> 00:02:49,665 I'd say I have always followed my muse, and I've been lucky 24 00:02:49,665 --> 00:02:54,165 enough to operate at a pretty high level in in what I've tried. 25 00:02:54,165 --> 00:03:00,075 And, you know, I've always loved finance. And I actually paid my 26 00:03:00,075 --> 00:03:04,005 way through college and by training and made a fair amount 27 00:03:04,005 --> 00:03:08,865 of money in the very early days of Apple and I got hooked. And 28 00:03:08,865 --> 00:03:11,895 that's been a theme throughout. But of course, college for me 29 00:03:11,895 --> 00:03:15,915 was a computer science degree and an economics degree. So I've 30 00:03:15,915 --> 00:03:22,825 always combined those two things and then immediately while I'm 31 00:03:22,845 --> 00:03:27,405 in school, I decided I know majoring in computer science and 32 00:03:27,405 --> 00:03:29,745 economics. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to open a 33 00:03:29,745 --> 00:03:33,904 restaurant and I became one of the first Boston Chicken 34 00:03:33,904 --> 00:03:36,454 franchisees, if you remember that business became Boston 35 00:03:36,454 --> 00:03:41,644 Market and eventually was bought by McDonald's. But at I love 36 00:03:41,644 --> 00:03:48,484 business just generally, I love building teams and I love 37 00:03:48,484 --> 00:03:52,894 finance. And so I've explored all various aspect of of those 38 00:03:52,894 --> 00:03:56,014 businesses. I spent a couple of years as an advisor, so I knew 39 00:03:56,404 --> 00:04:00,244 how hard it really is. And I know that I'm not cut out for 40 00:04:00,244 --> 00:04:05,464 that. But combining that understanding and my knowledge 41 00:04:05,464 --> 00:04:08,314 of software and product development, that's what 42 00:04:08,314 --> 00:04:09,214 eventually led to. 43 00:04:11,350 --> 00:04:18,010 Sam: What niche or hole in the market led you to create Blue 44 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:20,680 Leaf? What is it? What is the problem that Blue Leaf is 45 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:21,760 solving in your view? 46 00:04:22,296 --> 00:04:25,956 John: Sure. I mean, when you talk creation, this is a very 47 00:04:25,956 --> 00:04:31,716 different time. We've been around since 2011, 2012 when we 48 00:04:31,716 --> 00:04:36,906 first served our very first customers. And at the time, the 49 00:04:36,906 --> 00:04:40,926 idea of an interactive client portal was actually novel that 50 00:04:40,926 --> 00:04:46,806 was new. And so that's sort of where we started. And that's 51 00:04:46,806 --> 00:04:51,516 been a thread throughout. Which is why we talk about client and 52 00:04:51,516 --> 00:04:54,996 engagement being sort of our North Star, because we believe 53 00:04:54,996 --> 00:04:58,446 that everything that an advisor does is about the client. If 54 00:04:58,446 --> 00:05:00,816 you're doing reporting, it's about the client. If you're 55 00:05:00,816 --> 00:05:04,086 doing trading and rebalancing, it's about the client. Even if 56 00:05:04,086 --> 00:05:07,086 you're doing billing in some back office processes, you can 57 00:05:08,184 --> 00:05:12,861 draw a direct line from whatever you do in your practice all the 58 00:05:12,861 --> 00:05:18,171 way out to the client. So, so that's what guides us. We think 59 00:05:18,171 --> 00:05:22,491 about how do we help the advisor do more and better for their 60 00:05:22,491 --> 00:05:26,871 clients, how do we enable them to do what they do and be more 61 00:05:26,871 --> 00:05:32,601 focused? And a big piece of that, we realized, is how engaged 62 00:05:32,601 --> 00:05:36,591 clients were with their advisors and how it was very challenging 63 00:05:36,591 --> 00:05:42,261 for advisors to stay in touch with clients at the cadence that 64 00:05:42,261 --> 00:05:48,411 is now required. And so so that became a real area of specialty 65 00:05:48,411 --> 00:05:51,591 for us, an area of focus. And and really everything we do is 66 00:05:51,591 --> 00:05:55,761 about supporting that that mission so that advisors can 67 00:05:55,761 --> 00:05:56,781 better serve their clients. 68 00:05:57,971 --> 00:06:01,946 Sam: One of the ways that advisors serve clients is this 69 00:06:01,946 --> 00:06:04,106 idea of touch points with clients. And 70 00:06:04,458 --> 00:06:04,738 John: Yeah. 71 00:06:04,496 --> 00:06:07,826 Sam: when we talked before, you mentioned that a good target 72 00:06:07,826 --> 00:06:12,116 number was it. To me an astounding number is a 70 to 75 73 00:06:12,116 --> 00:06:15,746 engagements a year. And you make the point, which I totally agree 74 00:06:15,746 --> 00:06:19,436 with, that quarterly statements and yearly reviews are not 75 00:06:19,436 --> 00:06:22,526 enough anymore. Can you talk a little bit about that? 76 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,330 John: Yeah, sure. So I'm going to up that ante. I'm going to 77 00:06:27,330 --> 00:06:31,500 say that actually double that would be ideal. So up to 150 78 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:36,150 touch points a year and that is what many of the very fastest 79 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:41,670 growing advisors in the industry do. And it's what Jason Wenk did, 80 00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:45,660 the founder of Altruist, who was a customer of ours, and we 81 00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:49,770 really learned from people like him. But if you think about it 82 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:57,060 to two things. One, if you imagine, you know, this 365 days 83 00:06:57,060 --> 00:07:00,780 a year, maybe you send out four quarterly reports, you might do 84 00:07:00,780 --> 00:07:04,230 an annual meeting or annual update with a couple of other 85 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:07,740 touch points. You might get 15 touch points a year on in a 86 00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:13,486 typical advisory firm done traditionally. And so that 87 00:07:13,486 --> 00:07:18,286 leaves, you know what, 380 days a year where your clients are 88 00:07:18,286 --> 00:07:21,986 not hearing from you. So what is your service? What's your your 89 00:07:22,106 --> 00:07:26,026 your your service offering your services? Actually, silence. 90 00:07:26,536 --> 00:07:28,546 That's what you're delivering to clients. You're delivering 91 00:07:28,546 --> 00:07:33,369 silence, yet results, etc.. But that implies that the client 92 00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:37,089 will take those scattered touchpoints and put it together. 93 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:39,939 That, Oh yeah, I need to pay attention to the results Sam's 94 00:07:39,939 --> 00:07:43,029 giving me. And that just isn't the way that people work. At the 95 00:07:43,029 --> 00:07:47,139 same time, the world has moved on and world has really changed. 96 00:07:47,559 --> 00:07:50,439 Where if you think about services like Netflix or 97 00:07:50,439 --> 00:07:54,909 Facebook, my guess is you have an email or another message in 98 00:07:54,909 --> 00:07:58,959 your inbox or on your mobile phone that has pinged you to 99 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:03,099 give you a suggestion or some other value added connection to 100 00:08:03,099 --> 00:08:06,459 you that might tell you something great to watch on 101 00:08:06,459 --> 00:08:10,449 television tonight. And that might tell you your friend just 102 00:08:10,449 --> 00:08:14,499 did X and Y and Z. And we're used to being contacted almost 103 00:08:14,499 --> 00:08:18,069 daily by most of our favorite services and advice, just 104 00:08:18,609 --> 00:08:22,899 conceptually, advisors still live in the land of the thing 105 00:08:22,899 --> 00:08:26,679 that I personally do with my client. And what we're 106 00:08:26,679 --> 00:08:30,429 suggesting is the client engagement paradigm has shifted. 107 00:08:30,429 --> 00:08:33,849 It's much bigger. It's how does you how do you engage, but how 108 00:08:33,849 --> 00:08:36,579 does your firm engage, how to other employees engage with 109 00:08:36,579 --> 00:08:40,509 clients? It's how do you create content that engages clients? 110 00:08:40,509 --> 00:08:44,499 It's how do you support simple messaging and simple reporting 111 00:08:44,499 --> 00:08:47,349 that engages clients so that they're hearing from you two or 112 00:08:47,349 --> 00:08:51,009 three different times a week, but in different ways. I made a 113 00:08:51,009 --> 00:08:55,659 post the other day on LinkedIn and got a comment, you know, my 114 00:08:55,659 --> 00:08:59,259 God, I can't imagine. Come and go, you know, connecting with my 115 00:08:59,259 --> 00:09:03,249 clients that frequently and then I laid it out how? Well, once a 116 00:09:03,249 --> 00:09:06,609 week it might be the firm sending an email. Once a week it 117 00:09:06,609 --> 00:09:12,219 might be a report that sent automatically once a week or, 118 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:15,219 you know, every other week. It might be an update about a 119 00:09:15,219 --> 00:09:19,419 service that you delivered or another another member of your 120 00:09:19,419 --> 00:09:23,049 team sending a video saying, Hey, Sam, we just did this for you. 121 00:09:23,319 --> 00:09:27,249 Just wanted to let you know. And none of those are redundant. 122 00:09:27,249 --> 00:09:29,709 They don't feel like you're hitting them over and over. I 123 00:09:29,709 --> 00:09:33,159 think conceptually where we where we break and we really 124 00:09:33,159 --> 00:09:36,639 think it's bad and clients would hate it is when we think about 125 00:09:36,639 --> 00:09:39,249 sending the same message over and over and over again. And 126 00:09:39,249 --> 00:09:42,549 that is not at all what we're recommending. No one would would 127 00:09:42,549 --> 00:09:46,959 want that. What we're talking about is finding a way to make 128 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:50,229 your services more integrated with the life of your client. 129 00:09:51,238 --> 00:09:54,298 Sam: I really like that. John. to your point, it's not about 130 00:09:54,298 --> 00:09:56,758 hitting them over the head with the same message. It's about 131 00:09:56,758 --> 00:10:00,928 being creative, imaginative and unobtrusive. One of the things 132 00:10:01,288 --> 00:10:04,768 that you mentioned when we chatted before that really hit 133 00:10:04,768 --> 00:10:09,681 home with me is this idea of noisy service. Can you talk a 134 00:10:09,681 --> 00:10:13,461 little bit about that as as a as a way of dealing with this kind 135 00:10:13,461 --> 00:10:15,201 of touch point issue that we talked about? 136 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:21,336 John: Absolutely. We love the idea of noisy service. So if 137 00:10:21,336 --> 00:10:25,643 you've never heard of noisy service, this is the idea that 138 00:10:25,973 --> 00:10:30,383 most of the things that you do in your firm for clients are 139 00:10:30,383 --> 00:10:33,023 silence. That, again, is the service you're tending to 140 00:10:33,023 --> 00:10:36,503 provide. It's it's. It's nothing. It's that tree falling in the 141 00:10:36,503 --> 00:10:41,936 forest. But what noisy service does is it says, okay, add 30 to 142 00:10:41,936 --> 00:10:45,976 60 seconds on that, that moment of service in the back office 143 00:10:45,976 --> 00:10:50,416 that might be a quick review of accounts. It might be a quick 144 00:10:50,416 --> 00:10:54,496 analysis to see if if something needs a rebalance and then 145 00:10:54,496 --> 00:10:58,696 simply report that to the client, maybe grabbing your phone and 146 00:10:58,696 --> 00:11:02,176 doing a quick little video that says, Hey, Sam, we just reviewed 147 00:11:02,176 --> 00:11:05,146 your accounts. We were trying to see if they need to be 148 00:11:05,146 --> 00:11:07,606 rebalanced. They look really great, Keep doing what you're 149 00:11:07,606 --> 00:11:12,346 doing and just want to check in. Whoops. And and you you touch 150 00:11:12,346 --> 00:11:16,516 them. Now you've made an intangible service, white, 151 00:11:16,516 --> 00:11:20,566 tangible. Not only that, but you've started to create a 152 00:11:20,566 --> 00:11:24,316 relationship potentially beyond you with the rest of your firm, 153 00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:28,816 with your service teammates and the people who also support your 154 00:11:28,816 --> 00:11:33,409 clients. It is a complete game changer. And we use a video 155 00:11:33,409 --> 00:11:35,809 service called Loom to do this. There are others. You could do 156 00:11:35,809 --> 00:11:41,269 it, and advisors that are doing this today have reported all 157 00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:45,469 kinds of benefits. The advisor gets their time back. The 158 00:11:45,469 --> 00:11:49,699 clients more comfortable talking to other other service members. 159 00:11:50,659 --> 00:11:55,759 The the client refers more because they feel like they're 160 00:11:55,759 --> 00:11:58,189 getting more service, even though it's the same amount of 161 00:11:58,189 --> 00:12:01,549 services before. They just know about it for the first time in 162 00:12:01,549 --> 00:12:04,571 most cases. So that's noisy service. 163 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:09,036 Sam: I want to pick up on something that you mentioned, 164 00:12:09,046 --> 00:12:12,586 this is the emails that you get from Netflix or Spotify that 165 00:12:12,586 --> 00:12:18,346 we've suddenly become used to, And this is the idea of an 166 00:12:18,346 --> 00:12:19,984 engagement loop that 167 00:12:19,926 --> 00:12:20,376 John: Yes. 168 00:12:19,984 --> 00:12:24,944 Sam: Netflix or Spotify does. Can you explain the term and 169 00:12:24,944 --> 00:12:30,524 expand on how Blue Leaf captures that concept in the financial 170 00:12:30,524 --> 00:12:34,214 advice world and helps advisors create those sort of engagement 171 00:12:34,214 --> 00:12:34,604 loops? 172 00:12:35,614 --> 00:12:40,055 John: Yeah, absolutely. So if you think about most client 173 00:12:40,055 --> 00:12:44,945 portals or even mobile apps, they are kind of standalone 174 00:12:44,945 --> 00:12:50,181 experiences and they sit and they wait for somebody to show 175 00:12:50,181 --> 00:12:53,742 up because, oh, that client must have a better question. But 176 00:12:54,612 --> 00:12:57,222 Facebook isn't sitting there waiting for you to show up. 177 00:12:57,582 --> 00:13:01,602 They're reaching out. Netflix isn't sitting there waiting for 178 00:13:01,602 --> 00:13:04,422 you to show it. They're reaching out, reminding you of the value 179 00:13:04,422 --> 00:13:07,392 available to you and then creating simple ways for you to 180 00:13:07,392 --> 00:13:10,932 connect back. Right. So it's that outreach with a simple way 181 00:13:10,932 --> 00:13:16,152 to connect back that creates the loop of engagement. And with 182 00:13:16,152 --> 00:13:20,142 that, you can see engagement rates skyrocket, client 183 00:13:20,152 --> 00:13:26,232 satisfaction skyrocket. And we believe that all systems should 184 00:13:26,232 --> 00:13:29,712 be doing this. But of course that isn't the case. And maybe 185 00:13:29,712 --> 00:13:33,762 that's my product background come to come to bear here. But 186 00:13:33,762 --> 00:13:36,642 what we wanted to do is make sure that advisors were 187 00:13:36,642 --> 00:13:40,632 delivering to their clients the very best possible experience. 188 00:13:40,632 --> 00:13:44,202 And where you see that is in consumer services around the web. 189 00:13:44,202 --> 00:13:47,922 So we took that concept and we applied it squarely to a 190 00:13:47,922 --> 00:13:49,392 financial advisory business. 191 00:13:49,401 --> 00:13:51,291 Sam: That's an interesting concept, And when you were 192 00:13:51,291 --> 00:13:55,251 talking, it reminded me of my own experience. So I've signed 193 00:13:55,251 --> 00:14:01,376 up for a credit monitoring app, and something as mundane and 194 00:14:01,796 --> 00:14:05,606 relatively one dimensional as your credit rating and what's 195 00:14:05,606 --> 00:14:11,829 happening to your credit rating. This apps sends me one email a 196 00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:15,709 week at least, to say, hey, there is potential, new credit 197 00:14:15,709 --> 00:14:20,149 card that I could sign up for or say There has been activity in 198 00:14:20,149 --> 00:14:26,358 my credit report and, do I want to engage with it? So the idea 199 00:14:26,358 --> 00:14:31,668 of sending I would say, different types of touch points 200 00:14:31,668 --> 00:14:35,808 that encourages the client to at least have the choice whether 201 00:14:35,808 --> 00:14:39,498 they choose to engage with that or at the very least, it's a 202 00:14:39,498 --> 00:14:45,828 passive reminder that, I've got a team of a wealth advisor and 203 00:14:46,038 --> 00:14:50,838 their team working for me. Even when I'm not paying attention. I 204 00:14:50,838 --> 00:14:53,808 don't have to do anything more than just see that email, delete 205 00:14:53,808 --> 00:14:58,968 it. But I still register in my brain that I'm getting a touch 206 00:14:58,968 --> 00:15:01,398 point and I reach out for my firm. My advisor. 207 00:15:03,132 --> 00:15:06,372 John: Right. And I think the trick here and you used a really 208 00:15:06,372 --> 00:15:09,702 good example because in that example, you both had service 209 00:15:09,702 --> 00:15:13,032 oriented message and then promotional messaging and 210 00:15:13,152 --> 00:15:16,272 generally what we're recommending to most advisors is 211 00:15:16,272 --> 00:15:20,412 to, you know, severely limit the promotional messaging. What you 212 00:15:20,412 --> 00:15:25,782 want is lots and lots of value added content. So it might be an 213 00:15:25,782 --> 00:15:28,302 automated report that just simply says, you know, this is 214 00:15:28,302 --> 00:15:33,252 how your your your likelihood of your succeeding in your plan 215 00:15:33,252 --> 00:15:35,952 changed over the last month. It could be a message. That's the 216 00:15:35,982 --> 00:15:38,232 here's how your balance sheet changed or here's what happened 217 00:15:38,232 --> 00:15:42,192 this week in your account. Three very, very, very, very simple 218 00:15:43,722 --> 00:15:47,502 and it could also be on the content side. It could be you 219 00:15:47,502 --> 00:15:50,562 take your marketing, which most good marketing is going to be 220 00:15:50,562 --> 00:15:54,552 problem solution oriented. You know, did you just receive our 221 00:15:54,732 --> 00:15:57,522 use? Did you know that our issues can create a tax problem 222 00:15:57,522 --> 00:16:00,792 for you? If if so, here's the ways that you need to think 223 00:16:00,792 --> 00:16:03,162 about it. You should give us a call and we can help you and 224 00:16:03,162 --> 00:16:05,232 connect you with a tax professional, that sort of thing. 225 00:16:05,442 --> 00:16:08,232 Problem, solution oriented content, that's a very value add 226 00:16:08,232 --> 00:16:13,092 it, right? So so we think it's more about the value added touch 227 00:16:13,092 --> 00:16:16,962 points with information about how to solve problems, 228 00:16:16,962 --> 00:16:18,762 information about what's happening in my accounts, 229 00:16:18,972 --> 00:16:22,632 information about the kind of services we are providing to you, 230 00:16:22,632 --> 00:16:25,302 even though you're not aware of them in the in the background 231 00:16:25,632 --> 00:16:30,612 and in creating a volume of messaging based on that and it 232 00:16:30,612 --> 00:16:34,422 becomes quite powerful. And you also set at top of mind, you 233 00:16:34,422 --> 00:16:38,088 don't get referrals unless you are top of mind, right? That 234 00:16:38,088 --> 00:16:42,528 just doesn't happen. And what we've seen is the consistency of 235 00:16:42,528 --> 00:16:47,958 referrals really ramp up and or the volume. So it's it's quite a 236 00:16:47,958 --> 00:16:49,038 powerful combination. 237 00:16:48,765 --> 00:16:53,240 Sam: No, indeed. The advisers are working, as you say, when 238 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,180 they're delivering what they're doing, when they're providing 239 00:16:56,180 --> 00:17:00,719 this quiet service. What they're not aware of in many cases are 240 00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:04,439 they are aware they're actually struggling behind the scenes 241 00:17:04,439 --> 00:17:08,219 with the narrative their clients are receiving from external 242 00:17:08,219 --> 00:17:12,209 sources, whether it is the, the latest influencer on social 243 00:17:12,209 --> 00:17:17,969 media, CNBC or Jim Cramer. so this is happening that the 244 00:17:17,969 --> 00:17:21,779 client is getting influenced or inundated with these messages. 245 00:17:22,049 --> 00:17:26,939 The adviser is perhaps not responding or not proactively 246 00:17:26,939 --> 00:17:30,209 responding to some of those things. How do you advise 247 00:17:30,209 --> 00:17:36,051 financial advisers to counteract these external influences and 248 00:17:36,051 --> 00:17:37,551 maintain client trust? 249 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,940 John: Yeah. So when Jim Cramer honks his horn, when the latest 250 00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:51,327 influencer on Tik Tok, you know, tells your client that this is 251 00:17:51,327 --> 00:17:55,386 an and this is an insurance secret of the rich, you know, 252 00:17:55,456 --> 00:18:00,928 we've all seen these, right? When that happens, you have to 253 00:18:00,928 --> 00:18:04,768 be there. Alongside of that message, you have to be in your 254 00:18:04,768 --> 00:18:09,058 client's inbox or or otherwise contacting them with what we 255 00:18:09,058 --> 00:18:13,078 call a counter-narrative. So basically, this is the idea that 256 00:18:13,078 --> 00:18:16,648 you need to repeatedly tell your clients story back to them and 257 00:18:16,648 --> 00:18:19,288 how their money fits into the world and what's really 258 00:18:19,288 --> 00:18:23,998 happening so that they have a base narrative that they hang on 259 00:18:23,998 --> 00:18:26,938 to, that they then compare all of these other stupid messages 260 00:18:26,938 --> 00:18:32,481 to because then. It's your narrative is their narrative, 261 00:18:32,481 --> 00:18:39,021 and that is now the story that they live by. And those silly 262 00:18:39,021 --> 00:18:42,921 things coming in from media are a fact finding story. The 263 00:18:42,921 --> 00:18:46,491 problem when you don't show up in their inbox is the story is 264 00:18:46,731 --> 00:18:47,091 created 265 00:18:47,068 --> 00:18:47,278 Sam: Yup. 266 00:18:47,091 --> 00:18:51,201 John: by, you know, Jim Cramer or some Tik Tok influencer and 267 00:18:51,201 --> 00:18:53,331 that sort of becomes a jumbled mess 268 00:18:53,225 --> 00:18:53,445 Sam: Yup. 269 00:18:53,331 --> 00:18:56,781 John: in their story. And now when you say, don't worry, 270 00:18:57,291 --> 00:19:02,811 that's the fact fighting the story. So we advise creating a 271 00:19:02,811 --> 00:19:07,611 counter-narrative, the idea of a story, story, simple story, 272 00:19:07,611 --> 00:19:10,941 right? This isn't like paragraphs, but this idea. Look, 273 00:19:10,941 --> 00:19:14,751 your money is not the market. There are no secrets. There are 274 00:19:14,781 --> 00:19:19,371 simple tactics that, on repeat, get you where you need to go. 275 00:19:19,881 --> 00:19:23,991 And by sticking to this and being focused on the prize, eyes 276 00:19:23,991 --> 00:19:27,021 on the prize, you're going to get there. Anybody who tells you 277 00:19:27,021 --> 00:19:30,831 different is a charlatan and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. 278 00:19:31,221 --> 00:19:33,681 Right. That's how you make your clients resilient to that 279 00:19:33,981 --> 00:19:35,301 nonsense on tech talk. 280 00:19:35,946 --> 00:19:38,886 Sam: Look, one of the interesting things is as much as 281 00:19:38,886 --> 00:19:44,386 that nonsense is there on TikTok if you get that core message of 282 00:19:44,386 --> 00:19:48,256 your story right, you're actually being provided 283 00:19:48,256 --> 00:19:50,956 opportunities to create touchpoints or have touchpoints 284 00:19:50,956 --> 00:19:54,466 with their clients. Because this narrative from Jim Cramer or 285 00:19:54,676 --> 00:19:57,736 influencers, etc. is a weekly thing. I mean, you don't have to 286 00:19:57,736 --> 00:19:59,086 respond every week. 287 00:19:58,838 --> 00:20:02,018 John: Daily. It's daily. It's daily out there. The 288 00:20:02,304 --> 00:20:02,604 Sam: You've. 289 00:20:02,318 --> 00:20:03,308 John: media never sees. 290 00:20:03,245 --> 00:20:06,365 Sam: An opportunity to you have an opportunity every time there 291 00:20:06,365 --> 00:20:10,925 is or periodically when you get these narratives to use that as 292 00:20:10,925 --> 00:20:14,675 a touchpoint. One of your hundred and 50 a year, etc.. I 293 00:20:14,675 --> 00:20:17,735 use that as an opportunity to provide the counter-narrative, 294 00:20:17,735 --> 00:20:19,445 but that becomes one of your touchpoints. 295 00:20:19,922 --> 00:20:23,282 John: Exactly. And look, we're not saying that anybody needs to 296 00:20:23,282 --> 00:20:27,602 go from, you know, 15 touch points a year to 150. But, you 297 00:20:27,602 --> 00:20:32,010 know, a ten tax increase just start. Right. The thing that you 298 00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:35,010 can add, right, if you if you're a new customer on blue Leaf, you 299 00:20:35,010 --> 00:20:39,660 might add those automated, you know, financial updates. If 300 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:43,697 you've got marketing materials. Bill, take a look at that. Could 301 00:20:43,697 --> 00:20:47,387 those be repurposed to point directly to to clients? In many 302 00:20:47,387 --> 00:20:50,357 cases they can, and they'd be very value added, right? Just 303 00:20:50,357 --> 00:20:54,377 find the next thing and take that one next step. Right. You 304 00:20:54,407 --> 00:20:56,837 don't have to go all the way to the top of the mountain, you 305 00:20:56,837 --> 00:21:00,767 know, climb up 100 feet, see? See what you think, see how the 306 00:21:00,767 --> 00:21:03,677 air is. And but take it a step at a time. 307 00:21:04,485 --> 00:21:07,695 Sam: Totally agree. All of this is small wins. You don't have to 308 00:21:07,695 --> 00:21:11,655 run a marathon, as you know, one kilometer at a time. It isn't. 309 00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:12,160 John: Exactly. 310 00:21:11,925 --> 00:21:15,615 Sam: You don't run it all at once. Now, let's shift gears a 311 00:21:15,615 --> 00:21:22,665 little bit. Technology is, a very important part of all 312 00:21:22,665 --> 00:21:25,725 industries, but particular wealth management. But I would 313 00:21:25,725 --> 00:21:30,095 say the retail or the high net worth wealth space. Technology 314 00:21:30,095 --> 00:21:34,505 often gets criticized for poor service pricing and usability. 315 00:21:35,105 --> 00:21:38,105 But the end of the day, if the advisor and the client are not 316 00:21:38,105 --> 00:21:42,305 using the technology in the way it's designed, it's not fit for 317 00:21:42,305 --> 00:21:42,845 purpose. 318 00:21:44,082 --> 00:21:49,182 What would you say about that? And about a concept that I just 319 00:21:49,302 --> 00:21:52,482 laid out? And how is your company addressing these issues 320 00:21:52,482 --> 00:21:56,832 to provide a more seamless and efficient experience for 321 00:21:56,832 --> 00:21:58,182 advisors and their clients? 322 00:21:59,595 --> 00:22:04,115 John: Yeah, there's. There's a lot to unpack there, Sam. So. So 323 00:22:04,125 --> 00:22:08,505 let's take the idea of. Of usability usage and usability. 324 00:22:09,375 --> 00:22:12,285 You know, this is one of the reasons that we're so focused on 325 00:22:12,945 --> 00:22:15,435 client engagement, right? One of the biggest complaints we hear 326 00:22:15,435 --> 00:22:18,945 from advisors is I've got a I've got a portal and no one use it 327 00:22:19,125 --> 00:22:22,875 uses it. And some advisors assume that's because my clients 328 00:22:22,875 --> 00:22:25,335 aren't online or they don't want this because they haven't asked 329 00:22:25,335 --> 00:22:27,435 for it. But of course, they're on Facebook. They're doing a 330 00:22:27,435 --> 00:22:30,765 bunch of other things. So it's very clear that your clients are 331 00:22:30,765 --> 00:22:33,825 online. It's just that the thing you've handed them just isn't 332 00:22:33,825 --> 00:22:39,345 engaging. Right? So. So not all technology, not all client 333 00:22:39,345 --> 00:22:44,805 portals are created equal. They just aren't. And it's why very 334 00:22:44,805 --> 00:22:49,455 few companies like us provide engagement statistics. Ours is 335 00:22:49,455 --> 00:22:53,505 right on our dashboard is we think you ought to know. So so 336 00:22:53,505 --> 00:22:57,975 one is you have to actually have engaging technology for all of 337 00:22:57,975 --> 00:23:01,807 this to work. The other disappointment, of course, is 338 00:23:01,807 --> 00:23:05,557 pricing. Many advisors this year in particular have experienced 339 00:23:05,917 --> 00:23:09,307 big price increases from some of the larger players in the 340 00:23:09,307 --> 00:23:14,077 industry. Why? Because they felt like they could, right. You know, 341 00:23:14,077 --> 00:23:17,377 the consolidation of TD and Schwab made everybody feel like, 342 00:23:17,407 --> 00:23:20,527 oh, look, consolidation. Now there's less choice. So let's 343 00:23:20,917 --> 00:23:24,727 let's, you know, jam prices up and they're pretty big price 344 00:23:24,727 --> 00:23:28,177 increases. We have a pretty different philosophy at Blue 345 00:23:28,177 --> 00:23:36,607 Leaf. We've held our pricing for years since 2014 when we we 346 00:23:36,607 --> 00:23:41,197 haven't had a price increase. The only increases our customers 347 00:23:41,197 --> 00:23:45,820 experience are if they buy additional services or if they 348 00:23:45,850 --> 00:23:49,900 use the the system more. We think that's fair and it's the 349 00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:53,230 right way to do business. We're not trying to gouge. We're 350 00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:56,080 trying to have a fair, very long term relationship. And we've got 351 00:23:56,410 --> 00:23:58,780 hundreds and hundreds of customers that have been with us 352 00:23:59,110 --> 00:24:02,050 between five and ten years. So, you know, we're clearly doing 353 00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:07,539 something right. You know, the other thing. Technology alone 354 00:24:07,539 --> 00:24:12,249 doesn't solve these problems. Right. Technology is a tool, but 355 00:24:12,459 --> 00:24:18,249 technology by itself does not create. You know, It's all right. 356 00:24:18,459 --> 00:24:21,459 Drill as an example. Right. The drill by itself doesn't create 357 00:24:21,459 --> 00:24:25,179 the whole. Right. You need the drill. Plus plus the person. And 358 00:24:25,179 --> 00:24:30,639 so this idea of support, right, that you mentioned is really, 359 00:24:30,639 --> 00:24:34,779 really critical. And everybody talks about having great support. 360 00:24:34,779 --> 00:24:38,799 And but it's such a hard thing to evaluate at the outset. So we 361 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:43,599 talk a lot about our own statistics and how we've got 362 00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:47,769 between 92 and 98% client satisfaction on any given month 363 00:24:48,069 --> 00:24:52,269 that we have time to time to resolution of under 10 minutes 364 00:24:52,269 --> 00:24:56,963 are on our queue. But I think structurally, the thing that is 365 00:24:56,963 --> 00:25:02,393 so different about what we do at Blue Leaf is unlike virtually 366 00:25:02,393 --> 00:25:06,953 every other provider, we actually directly support your 367 00:25:06,983 --> 00:25:10,403 clients. Right? So if your clients are on our platform, you 368 00:25:10,403 --> 00:25:13,163 don't support them. You don't have to deal with password reset 369 00:25:13,163 --> 00:25:15,833 or questions about account aggregation or any of those 370 00:25:15,833 --> 00:25:18,893 things. Our team does that for you as an extension of your team, 371 00:25:19,343 --> 00:25:21,983 and that's really, really unique. And we've had to do a lot of 372 00:25:21,983 --> 00:25:25,703 gymnastics to organize our team to be able to stretch that far. 373 00:25:25,703 --> 00:25:29,603 Because if you think about it, that means a blue leaf support 374 00:25:29,603 --> 00:25:31,883 team for the same number of customers. Our number of 375 00:25:32,093 --> 00:25:36,653 advisors is is supporting somewhere between 50 and 100 376 00:25:36,653 --> 00:25:41,213 times more users than your typical, you know, support team, 377 00:25:41,483 --> 00:25:42,463 which we're quite proud of. 378 00:25:42,981 --> 00:25:47,976 Sam: And along those lines, simplicity and product design 379 00:25:47,976 --> 00:25:51,846 and incorporating the behavioral aspect of client interactions is 380 00:25:51,846 --> 00:25:52,806 very important. 381 00:25:54,536 --> 00:26:00,839 How do you create a simple, yet effective engagement system with 382 00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:01,379 blue leaf? 383 00:26:03,761 --> 00:26:09,356 John: Yeah. So if you want to create an easy to use service or 384 00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:13,690 product, there's just one word you need to bear in mind. 385 00:26:14,535 --> 00:26:15,105 Humility. 386 00:26:16,806 --> 00:26:18,336 Now, what do I mean by that? 387 00:26:20,835 --> 00:26:25,185 It is about suspending your assumptions about what that 388 00:26:25,185 --> 00:26:28,785 client needs or what that user needs, what that adviser needs 389 00:26:28,785 --> 00:26:32,235 in our case. You know, we we we have obviously advisers and 390 00:26:32,235 --> 00:26:37,644 clients as users, and it is about actually testing that. 391 00:26:38,094 --> 00:26:40,974 It's not even necessarily listening to what people say. 392 00:26:41,304 --> 00:26:46,189 It's watching very carefully what they do and being humble 393 00:26:46,189 --> 00:26:50,697 about what we think we know and what we don't know. And we rely 394 00:26:50,727 --> 00:26:55,857 very heavily, heavily on testing in order to do that. So that is 395 00:26:55,857 --> 00:27:03,442 that is a huge key because most adviser software is built in the 396 00:27:03,442 --> 00:27:08,062 land of shoulds. You should have this, You should do this. You 397 00:27:08,062 --> 00:27:12,262 always need this. And what we've found by being humble and 398 00:27:12,262 --> 00:27:17,542 focusing on direct research is that most of those are just 399 00:27:17,662 --> 00:27:24,182 illusion, just nonsense. The other thing is, and this is kind 400 00:27:24,182 --> 00:27:26,672 of the bonus tip if you're trying to make something really 401 00:27:26,672 --> 00:27:31,888 simple, focus on the little tiny details. And what I mean by the 402 00:27:31,888 --> 00:27:35,188 little tiny details in, say, a piece of software and its 403 00:27:35,188 --> 00:27:40,415 interface, little details like what is that button called? 404 00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:46,620 What's that menu item labeled, Right. How many clicks do I need 405 00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:51,420 to get? That's an obvious one. But the little elements of copy 406 00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:55,200 and the language that you use is that the language that your your 407 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,940 customer uses, your client uses. 408 00:27:59,325 --> 00:28:02,595 In most cases, it's the language that the product team or the 409 00:28:02,595 --> 00:28:06,255 engineers thought they should use, as opposed to being careful, 410 00:28:06,255 --> 00:28:10,485 very thoughtful, and again, using that as a bit of a 411 00:28:10,485 --> 00:28:13,275 research element when people are using your software to figure 412 00:28:13,275 --> 00:28:17,235 out is that what does that do what they thought it did based 413 00:28:17,235 --> 00:28:21,375 on the name, if not, find another name, right? So that so 414 00:28:21,375 --> 00:28:25,935 that the function and the intention are aligned right. 415 00:28:25,965 --> 00:28:29,325 Those are those are the two things that I'd say you'd need 416 00:28:29,325 --> 00:28:32,445 to do to create really simple software. And what you'll notice 417 00:28:32,445 --> 00:28:36,997 is in both cases it requires a lot of extra work. Right. 418 00:28:37,247 --> 00:28:41,647 There's a lot of extra research and observation and patience, 419 00:28:42,588 --> 00:28:46,998 which is in short supply, particularly in technology and 420 00:28:47,895 --> 00:28:51,285 it and it requires you to understand that you're going to 421 00:28:51,285 --> 00:28:54,645 be wrong and be willing to iterate and fix things quickly 422 00:28:54,885 --> 00:28:56,355 so that that's what we've learned. 423 00:28:56,575 --> 00:28:59,635 Sam: that's a great point. And I can see the parallels from the 424 00:28:59,635 --> 00:29:05,155 technology side of the equation to even the way advisors are 425 00:29:05,155 --> 00:29:08,215 interacting in their practice or with their clients. I mean, this 426 00:29:08,215 --> 00:29:14,515 idea of testing approaches, testing, terminology, testing 427 00:29:14,515 --> 00:29:18,445 and, getting feedback from clients, what resonates with 428 00:29:18,445 --> 00:29:22,985 them, what their key pain points are, there is a danger that we 429 00:29:22,985 --> 00:29:26,885 all make in assuming that this is their pain point because the 430 00:29:26,885 --> 00:29:30,485 industry tells us, or even assuming that the pain point 431 00:29:30,485 --> 00:29:35,045 that the client expressed four years ago when they signed up 432 00:29:35,045 --> 00:29:39,555 with you continues to be their pain point. So I think this idea 433 00:29:39,555 --> 00:29:43,905 of testing and asking and being humble enough to say that, the 434 00:29:43,905 --> 00:29:47,655 world is changing and that we need to be aware perhaps of how 435 00:29:47,655 --> 00:29:49,275 that's changing is pretty critical. 436 00:29:51,071 --> 00:29:55,391 John: That last point is so important. This 437 00:29:57,051 --> 00:30:03,318 most experienced advisers have this sort of danger point that 438 00:30:03,318 --> 00:30:08,066 they flirt with all the time, which is experience. And 439 00:30:08,426 --> 00:30:14,892 experience is the enemy of humility. And what I'd ask 440 00:30:14,892 --> 00:30:20,112 experienced advisers to do is to go back and recheck their 441 00:30:20,112 --> 00:30:24,042 assumptions from time to time about what clients want. I don't 442 00:30:24,042 --> 00:30:28,692 think your knowledge of managing money or anything that doesn't 443 00:30:29,082 --> 00:30:31,182 change that much. The environment does, and you need 444 00:30:31,182 --> 00:30:35,567 to keep up with that. And I would think about clients wants 445 00:30:35,567 --> 00:30:38,597 and needs in a similar way, right? That's the environment 446 00:30:38,597 --> 00:30:42,317 you're operating in. You can't simply assume that what people 447 00:30:42,317 --> 00:30:46,846 needed 20 years ago is what they need and want today. And most 448 00:30:46,846 --> 00:30:53,702 advisors take silence as a cent right silence, because my my 449 00:30:53,702 --> 00:30:57,705 clients didn't ask for this. Or they didn't tell me they wanted 450 00:30:57,705 --> 00:31:02,182 X, Y, Z. It's not their job to tell you what they want. It's 451 00:31:02,182 --> 00:31:03,562 your job to go find out. 452 00:31:04,171 --> 00:31:08,100 Sam: Totally. And as you're talking, it reminds me of an 453 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:12,420 experience I had a number of years ago at the firm. I was at 454 00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:17,730 we were trying to win the CEO of a public company as a client. 455 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,380 And after many unsuccessful meetings, it was one of my 456 00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:25,860 investment counselors who figured out that it was the 457 00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:30,349 CEO's wife that made the personal decisions. So she then 458 00:31:30,349 --> 00:31:33,589 started to build a relationship with the wife, and that led to a 459 00:31:33,589 --> 00:31:38,149 long standing, successful billionaire client, all because, 460 00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:41,959 as you said, she challenged our initial assumptions and she 461 00:31:41,959 --> 00:31:44,929 looked at things. She was humble enough to look at it and sit 462 00:31:44,929 --> 00:31:48,469 there and look at it clearly and objectively to say is is what we 463 00:31:48,469 --> 00:31:52,789 think the case really the case? And I think experience is 464 00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:55,459 important. I think it is so important. I'm such a big 465 00:31:55,459 --> 00:31:58,399 believer that you learn more from experience than anything 466 00:31:58,399 --> 00:32:01,549 else. But if you want to continue to learn, we always 467 00:32:01,549 --> 00:32:05,389 have to have a degree or a dose of humility that sits there and 468 00:32:05,389 --> 00:32:08,929 says, okay, is this still the case? Right? Is this still the 469 00:32:08,929 --> 00:32:11,209 right belief in this case? 470 00:32:12,491 --> 00:32:17,665 John: And experience can lead to assumptions, Right? And to me, 471 00:32:17,665 --> 00:32:21,445 one of the greatest business lessons I've ever learned came 472 00:32:21,445 --> 00:32:26,895 from a movie in the seventies. The Bad News Bears, Right. If 473 00:32:26,895 --> 00:32:29,805 you've if you've never seen it, there's a there's a scene where 474 00:32:30,105 --> 00:32:34,365 they talk about no assuming because assuming makes an ass 475 00:32:34,365 --> 00:32:39,765 out of you and me. And I replay that an awful lot in my in my 476 00:32:39,765 --> 00:32:44,676 business life, because every time I've gotten bitten, it's 477 00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:47,466 because there was an assumption that went unchallenged. 478 00:32:48,671 --> 00:32:53,171 Sam: True. Too true. What's the most important lesson you've 479 00:32:53,171 --> 00:32:55,841 learned about client engagement throughout your career? 480 00:32:56,986 --> 00:33:03,560 John: The most important lesson about client engagement is that 481 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,240 they don't 482 00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:10,460 register all of the messages you think you're sending 483 00:33:12,173 --> 00:33:12,623 that 484 00:33:14,178 --> 00:33:18,738 maybe one out of three or four messages lands and they remember 485 00:33:18,738 --> 00:33:22,819 it. Maybe if you're really, really, really lucky. So even if 486 00:33:22,819 --> 00:33:28,159 you are sending 100 touchpoints a year, they might register that 487 00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:32,444 you've sent them. You know, a couple of times a month. I know 488 00:33:32,444 --> 00:33:37,592 that sounds insane. It's showing up in your inbox. But people 489 00:33:38,222 --> 00:33:39,662 aren't thinking about you. 490 00:33:39,419 --> 00:33:39,679 Sam: Mm hmm. 491 00:33:40,469 --> 00:33:41,699 John: And that's actually the point. 492 00:33:41,406 --> 00:33:41,666 Sam: Mm hmm. 493 00:33:41,819 --> 00:33:46,619 John: Right. No one cares about what you're what you're doing or 494 00:33:46,829 --> 00:33:49,799 the things that you've done. They care about their life. They 495 00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:54,539 care about their problems. And it's only when you're present, 496 00:33:54,779 --> 00:33:58,049 when they need something like what you've got, where they 497 00:33:58,049 --> 00:34:00,899 connect the two. Otherwise, it's just noise and it just gets 498 00:34:00,899 --> 00:34:05,459 suppressed. So you need to be there an awful lot to make them 499 00:34:05,459 --> 00:34:07,379 feel like you're there even a little bit. 500 00:34:08,341 --> 00:34:11,191 Sam: That's an interesting point. So because they're not 501 00:34:11,191 --> 00:34:15,431 registering to all of your outreach or engagements. one 502 00:34:15,431 --> 00:34:20,275 solution, as you say, is to send and to end up with the less that 503 00:34:20,275 --> 00:34:25,156 they're getting. Is there something in the content or the 504 00:34:25,156 --> 00:34:29,296 type of messaging or how your messaging that can help, 505 00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:33,826 increase, call it the open rates or the registering rates that 506 00:34:33,826 --> 00:34:34,756 their clients may have? 507 00:34:36,397 --> 00:34:38,977 John: See, we're not talking about that. What we're talking 508 00:34:38,977 --> 00:34:43,747 about is human behavior and human cognition. And I don't 509 00:34:43,747 --> 00:34:46,027 know if there's an advisor out there who knows how to change 510 00:34:46,027 --> 00:34:50,347 that. Man, we need to talk. I bet there's $1,000,000,000 511 00:34:50,347 --> 00:34:55,511 product in that. But this is simply the way that people work. 512 00:34:55,931 --> 00:34:59,261 Right. If you think about the example of the Netflix or 513 00:34:59,261 --> 00:35:00,971 Facebook services that we've talked about. 514 00:35:02,673 --> 00:35:07,533 Even as many messages as you receive. My guess is you can't 515 00:35:07,533 --> 00:35:10,443 recount that many. When you think about it, yeah, I see them 516 00:35:11,493 --> 00:35:17,777 often, but you have no idea how frequently it just. It doesn't. 517 00:35:18,617 --> 00:35:23,954 It doesn't stay. It doesn't stick. Right. What sticks is the 518 00:35:23,954 --> 00:35:27,984 sense that that's a service. That I'm connected with, that 519 00:35:28,014 --> 00:35:32,114 that's touching me frequently. So, yes, you want to increase 520 00:35:32,114 --> 00:35:35,474 the relevance of individual messages? Absolutely. No 521 00:35:35,474 --> 00:35:41,769 question. But there's a real limit to how much one message is 522 00:35:41,769 --> 00:35:44,889 going to be perfect and it's going to land and everyone's 523 00:35:44,889 --> 00:35:49,752 going to cheer. No one cheers for your content. No one's going 524 00:35:49,752 --> 00:35:53,202 to cheer. Oh, wow. That is a great quarterly report. Have you 525 00:35:53,202 --> 00:35:58,303 ever seen that happen? Of course not. That that is. That just 526 00:35:58,303 --> 00:36:03,952 isn't how people work. But people remember how you make 527 00:36:03,952 --> 00:36:09,162 them feel. They don't remember the facts. But they remember how 528 00:36:09,162 --> 00:36:12,252 you make them feel and how you make them feel when you're 529 00:36:12,672 --> 00:36:17,232 sending out value added messages about them, about their money, 530 00:36:17,502 --> 00:36:20,262 about problems they may have, about things you've done for 531 00:36:20,262 --> 00:36:24,402 them. They feel cared for. They are sure you care about them. 532 00:36:24,792 --> 00:36:27,132 And many advisors do a good job at making their clients feel 533 00:36:27,132 --> 00:36:31,002 cared for. Don't get me wrong. But this is another way to 534 00:36:31,002 --> 00:36:34,782 ensure across the entire client base, if you've got 100 200 535 00:36:34,782 --> 00:36:38,742 clients that they feel that this is the way to systematize 536 00:36:38,024 --> 00:36:38,654 Sam: And scale. 537 00:36:38,982 --> 00:36:41,892 John: that sense of caring and scale it. Yeah, exactly. 538 00:36:42,274 --> 00:36:47,344 Sam: On that note, can you give an example of how an adviser 539 00:36:47,584 --> 00:36:51,094 that you work with has used your platform to transform their 540 00:36:51,094 --> 00:36:54,996 client service model? What, perhaps might have been their 541 00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:59,406 specific challenges? And how did Blue Leaf's platform help them 542 00:36:59,406 --> 00:37:00,066 overcome them. 543 00:37:01,974 --> 00:37:06,849 John: Sure. This is actually an older story, but it's one of my 544 00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:09,729 favorite favorites because it was it was well ahead of its 545 00:37:09,729 --> 00:37:15,369 time. But the best transformational story that that 546 00:37:15,969 --> 00:37:20,819 comes to mind for me about how Blu leaf changed a business or a 547 00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:26,098 service model for an advisor is an advisor. You know, $100 548 00:37:26,098 --> 00:37:30,978 million firms, a good sized firm, not huge, not not small. Who 549 00:37:31,008 --> 00:37:34,228 wanted to simplify their quarterly reporting process. 550 00:37:34,338 --> 00:37:37,728 They came to us for automated reporting, very traditional need. 551 00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:44,855 And within about six months, I saw a story on the Wall Street 552 00:37:44,855 --> 00:37:49,379 Journal, their online edition, that highlights advisors. And it 553 00:37:49,379 --> 00:37:54,209 was a story about this advisor who killed the quarterly report 554 00:37:54,209 --> 00:37:58,739 and and essentially eliminated the traditional quarterly report 555 00:37:58,979 --> 00:38:04,529 in form in favor of more frequent touch points. And this 556 00:38:04,529 --> 00:38:11,459 saved that firm. I think what she told me at the time was a 3 557 00:38:11,459 --> 00:38:17,754 to 4 man days a month that they were that they were spending to 558 00:38:17,754 --> 00:38:22,284 sort of make sure that all of this stuff was was together. And 559 00:38:22,854 --> 00:38:26,694 more importantly, she said, was it really ratcheted up their 560 00:38:26,694 --> 00:38:28,044 growth and their referrals. 561 00:38:29,737 --> 00:38:30,097 Sam: Great. 562 00:38:31,450 --> 00:38:34,060 John: So you land on the cover of the Wall Street Journal and 563 00:38:34,060 --> 00:38:36,370 your business is better off. That feels like a win win win. 564 00:38:36,932 --> 00:38:40,382 Sam: Sounds like it to me. John We're coming to the end of our 565 00:38:40,382 --> 00:38:44,822 podcast, so I have a few final rapidfire questions for you that 566 00:38:44,822 --> 00:38:45,452 I ask all my. 567 00:38:46,219 --> 00:38:46,489 John: Sure. 568 00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:49,770 Sam: So number one, professionally, what is the most 569 00:38:49,770 --> 00:38:51,840 important lesson you've learned over the years? 570 00:38:53,219 --> 00:38:56,789 John: Systems thinking. So everything that we do or operate 571 00:38:56,789 --> 00:39:01,799 in is part of a larger system, which is why so many things that 572 00:39:01,799 --> 00:39:08,669 we attempt have unintended consequences. And if we start by 573 00:39:08,669 --> 00:39:12,299 thinking about the end goal we want and trying to understand 574 00:39:12,299 --> 00:39:15,509 the system we're operating in. We tend to be much more 575 00:39:15,509 --> 00:39:19,129 effective. There was a wonderful book by a guy named Peter Sanga 576 00:39:19,149 --> 00:39:22,679 called The Fifth Discipline. It is about systems thinking. It 577 00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,859 changed the way I viewed the world. And I would highly 578 00:39:25,859 --> 00:39:26,429 recommend it. 579 00:39:27,827 --> 00:39:30,617 Sam: Right. I know the book and I totally agree. It's a 580 00:39:30,647 --> 00:39:35,194 wonderful book. What is one practical tip you would offer 581 00:39:35,194 --> 00:39:39,514 listeners keen on applying your insights on client engagement? 582 00:39:42,319 --> 00:39:46,939 John: Pick up on either noisy service as a model or on 583 00:39:46,939 --> 00:39:50,149 repurposing your marketing content to be problem solution 584 00:39:50,149 --> 00:39:54,109 focused and sending that to your clients. Either one will get you 585 00:39:54,109 --> 00:39:59,599 another 25 to 50 touch points a year and your clients will be 586 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:02,359 better off. You could always come to blue if and get some 587 00:40:02,359 --> 00:40:05,779 other automated stuff, But. But those things are things you can 588 00:40:05,779 --> 00:40:10,159 do right now to day to change the way that you engage with 589 00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:10,469 clients. 590 00:40:11,124 --> 00:40:13,644 Sam: It's been a great discussion. If listeners want to 591 00:40:13,644 --> 00:40:16,944 learn more about you or find out about your work, where do they 592 00:40:16,944 --> 00:40:17,214 go? 593 00:40:19,324 --> 00:40:22,624 John: Easiest place is LinkedIn. I'm just, you know, John 594 00:40:22,624 --> 00:40:26,614 Prendergast is my handle on LinkedIn. We're active there 595 00:40:26,614 --> 00:40:30,964 every day and it's very easy to get hold of me there. 596 00:40:31,154 --> 00:40:34,694 Sam: Awesome. John, thank you for joining us today on the 597 00:40:34,694 --> 00:40:36,464 Future-Ready Advisor podcast. 598 00:40:37,683 --> 00:40:39,293 John: My pleasure. It was really fun.