Guy: [00:00:00] Hey, I'm Guy Powell and I'm sitting here with Cindy Meyer and Joe Marino, and they are two long time shroud researchers and promoters. And today we're talking about some, one of the most fascinating mysteries in history, the shroud of Turin. Whether you see it as a sacred relic, a historical enigma, or a powerful symbol of faith, the shroud continues to captivate scientists, theologians, historians and seekers around the world.

And this summer, something really cool and big is happening. It is the Shroud of Turin 2025 International Conference and Symposium, and it's coming to St. Louis. It'll be a gathering of some of the world's leading experts, researchers, and passionate believers all coming together [00:01:00] to explore the past, the present, and the future of the shroud of Turin.

As I said today, uh, with us, uh, are Cindy Meyer. I. And Joe Marino, and they are members of the conference board and they're the ones putting, uh, doing a lot of the behind the scenes work to get this conference put together. And, uh, they will be bringing, uh, this incredible event to life, but who also bring a unique perspective and passion to the conversation.

So, Cindy, let me start with you. So tell us, uh, in a few words what this conference is all about.

Cindy: Well, as you so beautifully stated guy, it, it's all about, uh, the shroud of Turin and letting people know about the shroud. It's also an opportunity to reveal the latest findings on the shroud. This, as you know, is the most studied artifact I.

On the planet, probably in the history of the world and the research goes on. And we have had some new and exciting developments lately. And, uh, we have, uh, as [00:02:00] you pointed out, 40 speakers and shroud experts, researchers. And this is just gonna be a wonderful opportunity for people who are interested in the shroud of turn, uh, to come and find out what it's all about and to share the latest findings.

Guy: Yeah. Fantastic. So why now? Why 2025?

Cindy: Well, uh, the last, uh, shroud Conference, international Shroud Conference was held prior to the pandemic. It was held in Canada near Toronto prior to the pandemic in 2019. And Joe and I got together and said, you know what? With all the interests, suddenly in, because of the latest findings and the research, we thought now seemed to be a really good time to, to bring everybody together again.

And

Guy: it's, uh, gonna be taking place in St. Louis, Missouri. Why, uh, why St. Louis?

Cindy: Well, uh, this is Joe's old stomping ground. It's my old stomping ground. I live two hours away from St. Louis. I have family in St. Louis, and, and it's [00:03:00] right smack in the middle of the us So we just really kind of thought this would be, um, a good central, uh, place to hold it.

In the us.

Guy: Well, and that's for sure, and St. Louis is definitely right in the middle. So Joe, uh, what is the, uh, the vision for the conference?

Joe: Well, as Cindy said, we haven't had one in North America since 2019. It's always nice to, I. To rub elbows and, uh, shoulders with, uh, fellow shrouds, uh, instead of just talking to 'em on Zoom, as nice as that is.

But, you know, we're gonna have just a lot of, just some new, new blood coming in, new talks. We have some of the old guard, a lot, a lot of the old guard as. Unfortunately been passing on. Uh, but there's still some of us left. And uh, so we're gonna be given some talks that some people might be vaguely familiar with, or at least the subject matter.

But we have a lot of new, new blood and we're hoping, um, one of the [00:04:00] things we'd like to do at this conference is try to get the Vatican to, or to, and or turn to allow new testing on the shroud. Let's face it. Um. There hasn't been a major testing, multidisciplinary testing since 1978 and science and technology has advanced leap years since then, and there's so much more we can find out.

It's amazing we're coming out with as much new information. I. As we are right now, considering there hasn't been any, you know, access to the shroud apart from conservation and a few private showings and things like that. So we're hoping, um, it's gonna be a full house, it looks like, and there's been a lot of publicity about the Shroud, the news, and we're hoping to get some publicity about the conference and, and raise awareness even more.

And, uh, hopefully convince Vatican and, uh, the Vatican and tur into, uh. Possibly allow some new testing in the future.

Guy: Yeah, that's a, uh, an awesome [00:05:00] mission and, uh, I certainly hope we'll, uh, we're able to be successful with that. So, uh, there's gonna be two, uh, kinds of sessions and, uh, there's the academic where, like you said, a lot of the old guard and a ton of speakers and a whole bunch of new research and new papers will be presented.

But for the public, uh, there's also, uh. Separate sessions that they'll be able to rub elbows with some of the, uh, noted scholars. Joe, who are some of the, uh, the big speakers that, uh, they might be able to, uh, get to know?

Joe: Well, Robert Rucker is a nuclear engineer. He'll be giving a talk on, on C 14. There's a, a well-known preacher named Jeremiah Johnston, uh, who's a resurrection scholar.

He'll be giving a talk. He's very dynamic. Don't miss him. We have got Dr. Gilbert LaVoy giving a talk. We're gonna have, um, Janice Winchester and Dr. Cheryl White is gonna be giving some history on the house of Savoy, who, which is the, the ruling family of Italy that. That owned the shroud previously. [00:06:00] The last King of Italy had died in 1983 and wield it to the Living Pope, but the House of Savo owned it for centuries before that.

And then we have several interesting panels that I think the public will be interested in. We have four or five people on a panel of, uh, agnostics, uh, that. In other words, people that originally thought that, uh, either didn't believe in the, in the shroud or weren't sure. And then eventually once they studied it, came around to believe that it was authentic.

We're gonna have a medical panel, uh, with some discussing blood aspects and, and, and like, and we also have an asked the experts panel, which is just kind of a general, uh, ask anything you want question to, uh, a lot of the great speakers that we'll have.

Guy: Yeah. Fantastic. So Cindy, uh, what do you think, uh, you know, one of the big questions with, uh, the shroud is, uh, first of all, is it authentic and then secondly, how does science play a role in trying to understand more about the shroud and [00:07:00] potentially, uh, working towards, uh, you know, proving that it is authentic or maybe not proving it, but certainly.

You know, getting to the next level on understanding how important it is to, uh, understanding Christianity and, and part of, uh, people's faith.

Cindy: Well, the, the, the amazing thing about the shroud is that it has baffled scientists for at least a century. It is the most studied artifact, as we we mentioned before.

And yet. The scientists are still not sure exactly what produced the image on the shroud and, but now, as Joe was saying, our testing mechanisms and, and have grown, I mean, we now would have non-destructive means. Of, of testing the shroud. You know, before I think the Vatican was concerned that we were going to harm the, the shroud or, or, or destroy it in some way.

But no, we have a lot of new techniques that would be non-destructive. So, um, you know, I think that they just [00:08:00] came out with a, a technique in the last two years called wide angle x-ray scattering that did. Date the cloth back 2000 years and that was done completely without dis any destruction to the cloth.

So, you know, I think we're seeing right now a surge, a resurgence, or a surge, if you will, of interest in the shroud simply because you know, people are excited with the new technology. Even just ai, you've seen all the AI testing that's going on right now and. All the different images that's, that have come forth.

The, uh, shroud has holographic X-ray 3D uh, qualities on top of being a photographic negative. And this has just never been seen before, uh, on planet Earth. So it's, it's quite, uh, it's quite the enigma.

Guy: Yeah, definitely. And if you're, uh, a member of the public or, you know, as a Christian or even maybe a non-Christian, learning more about this, uh, this scientific [00:09:00] enigma or the, what I call the world's greatest mystery will definitely be something of great value.

So, Joe, what, uh, inspires you personally about the shroud and then of course about this conference?

Joe: Mm-hmm. Well, I've been studying the shroud for 48 years now, and, um, uh, Pope John Paul II said it's the mirror. It's a mirror of the gospels, and I think it, for me, it kind of concretizes the. Gospels. I mean the, the gospels are so brief in some of their descriptions of some of the, the wounds and sufferings he had, and they'll say, and he was scoured, you know, well, that doesn't tell you a lot, but when you look at the shroud and you can actually see the scourge marks all over his body and you can see that wonderful serene face despite the torture that he went through it, it kind of just really.

Makes it real, so to speak, mu much more than the gospels do. And I think the fact that scientists have not been able to study it suggests [00:10:00] that, you know, it is what is purported to be. Now you could, you have to leave the possibility open that somebody will disprove it someday. But I find that highly unlikely.

I mean, there's so much evidence right now that points to authenticity. I, I can't see anybody. Or any group coming up with enough evidence to contradict the current findings we have now.

Guy: Yeah, I think, I think you're right. Uh, Sidney, so what about you? What inspires you personally and, uh, about the shroud?

Of course, and then also about the conference. I.

Cindy: Well, of course I've been fascinated with the shrouds since I learned of it in the 1970s, and at the time I thought, why doesn't the whole world know about this? Why aren't they teaching about this in the Sunday school? I was just, I thought I was baffled as to why this isn't better known than it is.

Um, and then in 2013 I discovered that Barry Schwartz had the, had the website shroud.com that I would frequently jump on and try to find new information. And when I realized [00:11:00] that he was Jewish, I was so impressed that I wrote to him and I said, I'm just impressed that you being a Jew are one of the staunchest proponents of the shroud.

Heaven must have a special place for you. And he wrote the nicest letter back saying, I find it one of the great ironies of my life. Mm-hmm. I, being a Jew, have to go around convincing Christians of the the shroud's authenticity. Also, he said, I find it indicative of God's great sense of humor, that whenever he has an important message to send, he sends a Jew.

And so we were friends ever since. And then he. He invited me to the 2014 Shroud Conference, which is where I met Joe and so many of the other speakers that we're gonna have at, at our conference. And I'm very just very excited for this opportunity. You, as you mentioned before, it's not the same to zoom with somebody as it is to get to sit down and talk with them one-on-one and meet them and, and hear, um, what draws them to the shroud.

And, you know, we're, we're all like-minded in this, in this group. [00:12:00]

Guy: Absolutely. And, uh, so, uh, tell us, I, I think there's gonna be a tribute to, uh, Barry Schwartz.

Cindy: Well, the entire conference is, is actually a tribute to Barry Schwartz. Um, but yes, we will have, uh, a speaker, I think Father, uh, Andrew Dalton is gonna present tribute to Barry.

We, we will have a video. We'll have other, we hope, uh, ways of honoring him. Uh, but yes, this, this conference is a, a tribute to Barry Schwartz.

Guy: Fantastic. So tell us, uh, one last question. Uh, so what, how can people get involved? Can they, uh, uh, certainly participate and, uh, and be part of the, the public sessions?

Can they volunteer or anything else? How can they get involved in, uh, in the conference and or with the shroud of Turin? I.

Cindy: Um, absolutely. We, we need volunteers, so we, we appreciate that. But also we are gonna be, I think it's first, the first time in the history of shroud conferences. We're actually having.

Day past [00:13:00] sessions where people can just come in who don't know much about the shroud, who have heard about it, who are curious, uh, and just wanna know more about it. And, and those tracks will be geared toward, uh, the beginner, you know, the people that maybe NEA fights to the shroud. And we, we do, we are limited.

We, we can't let everybody in. We'd like to, uh, but, but Augustine Institute the beautiful, uh, location where we're holding. The conference has limited space, limited parking and everything. So, but we will be letting people in. Um, they'll need to jump on those tickets quickly, uh, to ensure that they have a space.

Um, but yes, we also do need, uh, some volunteers. So if anybody's interested, they're gonna be able to go to the website and, uh, a either purchase their day pass, or b sign up to volunteer.

Guy: Oh, that's wonderful. Joe, any last words for, uh, the, the folks, uh, the public folks that might be able to attend?

Joe: Uh, the grounds, [00:14:00] the whole complex of the Augustine Institute is, is just fabulous.

It's like 284 acres and just beautiful facilities. It's got, uh, exercise equipment inside and the nice. Rooms. Um, if you, if you book there and, and we're gonna run, run out soon. So if you're thinking about getting the full pass, I'd recommend you, you sign up for those. But the day passes will be a way for people that, uh, maybe don't wanna attend the full conference, but start to learn more about the shroud.

And I think the, once they get interested, they'll find it fascinating and, and probably find it hard to get out.

Guy: Okay, will I, I, yeah, go ahead, Cindy.

Cindy: Well, we didn't mention the exhibit and, and we're also gonna have a world class exhibit. The, the same one that was featured, uh, at the National Eucharistic Congress that had people lined up for hours on end, and Jonathan Rumi of the chosen got a [00:15:00] special, uh, special private tour of this very, uh, exhibit that we're gonna have at our conference.

So that's another wonderful opportunity to see that.

Guy: Yeah. Fantastic. And so where can they, uh, go to sign up? Where can they go to find out more information? S

Cindy: so it's Shroud 2025. conference.com is the website.

Guy: And what are the exact dates?

Cindy: Uh, July 30th through August the third.

Guy: Okay, fantastic. So, uh, for everybody, uh, shroud 2025 conference.com and the dates are, uh, are July 30th, 31st through August 3rd, and, uh, tickets are available there.

And as Cindy and both Joe mentioned that, uh, they. There is unfortunately limited space, so you need to sign up early and, uh, I think, Joe, you're so right. Uh, everything I've seen and heard about the Augustine Institute is uh, spectacular. So with that, fantastic. Looking forward to it. And please, [00:16:00] uh, go to Shroud 2020 five.com.

Thank you.

Cindy: comforts.com.

Guy: conference.com. Thank you.